150 Years After Fort Sumter

Jared Taylor, VDARE.com, April 12, 2011

150 years

ago tonight–at 4:30 a.m. on April 12, 1861–Confederate

forces

opened fire on

Fort Sumter.

My

great-great-grandfather,

William Boggs, was an engineer who

helped prepare the gun emplacements at Fort Moultrie,

which delivered the heaviest fire. All my ancestors on

both sides of my family were

Confederates. There is not a single Yankee in my

family tree, so my lineage is about as Southern as it

could be. What does any of that mean

146

years after Appomattox?

Americans

are famously ignorant of history, and the past is always

receding–but for

not a few

Southerners, The War and its consequences are never

far below the surface. William Faulkner famously said:

“The past is

never dead. It’s not even past.” This rings true

only for Southerners (except perhaps for a few

Mayflower-descended

Boston Brahmins). Indeed, some Southerners still

dream of an independent nation-state of their own. Since

1994, an organization called the

League

of the South has tried to prepare for independence,

though its leaders–thoughtful and honorable men–concede

that that time has not yet come.

Will it

ever come? There are enormous obstacles. The South is

filling up with Yankees and

Mexicans for whom the idea of a Southern nation is

meaningless. Blacks are

moving back from the North, and for them, a Southern

nation is

worse than meaningless: it is anathema. Southern

nationalists imagine a

benign and romantic revival of the Confederacy, with

battle flags, chivalry, and conservative Christianity;

but for many Americans, there can be no benign revival.

They cannot separate the Confederacy from slavery. And

any goal with even the slightest, second-hand,

undeserved, taint of slavery is at a deep disadvantage.

I am

confident that not one person who dreams of an

independent South has the slightest desire to

reinstitute slavery. But that doesn’t matter. Any

Southern sovereignty movement that even mentions

Lee and Jackson or hums

Dixie

is automatically suspect. And what Southern independence

movement can there be without Lee, Jackson, and

“Dixie”?

It makes no

difference that slavery

flourished under the Stars and Stripes for far longer

than it did under the Stars and Bars. It makes no

difference that

Lincoln had

no use for blacks and wanted them

out of the country. The Confederacy and the entire

South have been nailed to the cross of slavery–but these

obstacles could be overcome by fiercely determined

people.

Something

more serious holds back Southern nationalism: Its

support is limited almost entirely to people who profess

a certain kind of politics, whereas national movements

must be beyond politics. An independent South would need

the support of people who may not be conservative, who

may not be suspicious of big government, who may not be

Christian, who may not

oppose marriage for homosexuals, but who are still

devoted to the South. The roots of a

Southern nation would have to spread widely and not

just sink deep.

Take the

admittedly unscientific sample of my sainted mother.

Born in 1922, she believed Southerners were different

from Yankees, and was thankful to have been born a

Southerner. She rose when

Dixie

was played and looked daggers at anyone who did not. She

turned her back on

“The Battle Hymn

of the Republic”. When

Jimmy Carter was elected–after a campaign in which

Democratic radio ads throughout the South actually

featured Dixie, incredible as that may now sound–she thought it was

wonderful finally to have a President who did not speak

with an accent.

She lived

in Massachusetts for a year, and loved to drive through

the

New England countryside. She didn’t know what to

make of the monuments to the

Union dead that are in virtually every town square

until she came up with a good, Southern way to think

about of them: as monuments to

Confederate marksmanship.

And yet, my

mother would not be part of today’s Southern

nationalism. She was a professional social worker and a

Norman Thomas socialist. She was an early champion

of

women’s liberation, and campaigned for gay rights.

She believed in the redemptive power of government, and

went to her grave a committed liberal.

My mother

loved the South because she grew out of that red dirt,

because that was the land that formed her. She was

Southern because she was born Southern. The Confederacy

was part of her extended family–and whatever a Southern

lady does, she loves and defends her family.

But today,

how many Southerners feel as she did about the South

unless they

also are deeply conservative? The cause of the South

must be at the political center, not the fringe.

Let me be

clear: I am not blaming today’s Southern nationalists

for their political opinions, many of which I share. I

am pointing out only that the broadly-based Southern

patriotism of which my mother was a part is gone. There

are not many Southern nationalists today who would march

for

gay rights or would expand the welfare state.

Fifty years

ago was the 100th anniversary of firing on Fort Sumter.

In 1961 I was a fourth grader in Richmond, Virginia,

and my teacher,

Bela Outlaw, was an outspoken Southern patriot. We

were never to talk in her class of the

“Civil War” but of the

“War between the

States” because, as she explained, ours had been a

battle for independence, not a fight over who sat in

the White House. She taught us that secession was in the

tradition of the American Revolution–which

was

secession from England–and that

George Washington is on the

Great Seal of the Confederacy because

our ancestors believed they were acting in his name.

She taught us that the 9th and 10th Amendments cannot be

read as prohibiting secession, and that our

ancestors were legally and morally right.

All my

classmates were staunch Confederates.

“Yankee” was

a term of contempt. The Battle Flag was our symbol of

bravery and devotion. That year, I saved up my meager

allowance and bought two genuine

Confederate $20 bank notes. I thrilled to imagine

whose hands might have touched those sacred relics.

Fifty years

later, after the

enforcement of

Brown vs. Board and what can only be called the

Second Reconstruction, I suspect today’s Richmond

fourth graders are not as Confederate as my class was.

I’m certain their teachers are not as Confederate as

Bela Outlaw was.

And yet

Miss Outlaw was not a conservative. There were rumors

that

black children might be coming to our all-white

school, and she had firm views about that, too. She said

she would treat black children exactly as she treated

us, and, like it or not, we had better do the same.

I don’t

know about my class-mates but I remain

sympathetic to

secession. I would be glad to see an independent

South–or an independent

Vermont or

Texas or Cascadia. I applauded the disintegration of

the Soviet Union, as

much because it meant independent homelands as because

it signaled the death of

Communism. Today, I root for the Chechens against

the Russians, the South

Sudanese against the Arabs, the

Kurds

against the Turks, the

Flemings against the

Walloons, the Quebeckers against Toronto. Men need

homelands that are

theirs, that commemorate their heritage and

ensure its survival.

But when

the Czechs and the Slovaks peacefully seceded from each

other, it was because millions of people were Czech or

Slovak nationalists first, and many different things

second. They set aside all other disagreements in the

name of nation.

The

American South does not now have the same broad-based

national fervor, and the few sparks of Southern

patriotism that remain are smothered by newcomers who

are indifferent or hostile to the South.

Looking

back 150 years, I am struck by how remote an irritant

the federal government then was. About the only brush

with

Washington

most Americans ever had was buying stamps at the

post office. The feds never dreamed of telling you

whom you had to

hire,

what you could put in your

food, or

how many days off you had to give the help. No American

had to account to Washington for every penny he earned, and

then hand over a big part of it. Not even Louis XIV

or

Ivan the Terrible exercised that kind of tyranny.

The people of Illinois

and Wisconsin would

have voted articles of secession before

South Carolina

did if they had lived in the grip of today’s central

government.

And yet,

the irony is that today’s pestilential

bureaucracy has nothing like the resolve

with

which Lincoln’s government fought the war. A country

that chants mantras about diversity and tolerance has no

idea what it even is. It has no identity to impose on

people who know who they are, know what they want, and

are prepared to fight for it.

The real

tragedy is that Southern nationalism crested 150 years

too soon. I am convinced that if, today, the people of

the South–or of any state–were as determined to secede

as my ancestors were in 1860 and 1861, the federal

government

would

not now slaughter them to

keep

their corpses in the Union.

Independence is there for any group of Americans that is

united in its determination to take it.

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  • Question Diversity

    JT wrote:

    William Faulkner famously said: “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”

    My favorite quote similar to that, and mindful of The (not so) Lost Cause, is from native St. Louisan T.S. Eliot — There are no lost causes, because there are no won causes.

  • Jupiter7

    Considering what is going today, how can one not sympathize with the sentiments behind Jared’s post on vdare.com? Jared Taylor mentioned the invasion by Northerners. Christmas time a few years back, I hiked up Crowders Mountain. After my climb, I hung out by the picnic benches just outside the public facilities. I struck up a conversation with a North Easterner-of Greek ancestry-with a yuppie sensibility and very likely working in the Charlotte financial sector. I started a conversation about the rural natives who lived in this area. He immediately responded:”Oh year, these inbred morons still live around here..we will get rid of them soon enough”. Was it a good idea to let the Greeks in? I am not so sure. At the next table, there was a young woman-very Scotch-Irish looking-with her fiancee, a transplant from Connecticut. When I go to Boon, I always stop off at that Confederate rural store on the way up towards Blowing Rock. I’ve picked up a few Confederate pillows for family members. Have the next AmRen conference in Boon. Have it at that old green hotel.

    A few points about Jared’s vdare.com post. Jared, you are under no obligation to prove to people who really hate you-immigration enthusiasts-that you are not a racist. I have a sense that this is what you are trying to do in your vdare.com post Once you start trying prove to the race-replacement enthusiasts that “hey, I am really not a racist”…you lost the “debate”. The race-replacement enthusiasts are the obvious racists..and we must state unequivocally that their intent is to race-replace the Native Born White Majority with high fertility post-1965 nonwhites and state that this is hard-core racism. Make their racism the issue.

    Next point. I am all for secession from the morally degenerate and evil Washington DC pool that passes for a National Government. I am all for a confederation of Native Born White American Regions. But I am not in favor of tolerating Mexico,China,Korea,India,Pakistan, Nigeria,Iran-Iranian “Amerian” youth now snooping around camp Pendleton-extending their genetic borders deep into our America..or even one inch into our America. I have made many posts about the long term threat that these poses to the racial survival of Native Born White Americans. Secession-the kind that tolerates nonwhite nations extending their genetic borders very deep into America-will not prevent violent conflict with high fertility post-1965 nonwhites…it will also not prevent the inevitable ecological collapse of “America” that will-with 100 percent certainty-result in the collapse of the Native Born White American population in ” in their own private Idahos”-to quote a Southern rock band from Athens GA.

    Native Born White American Patriots who appear on the MSM must encourage their fellow Native Born White Americans to take a stand and rebel against their race-replacement at the hands of high fertility post-1965 nonwhites…this is the only game in town..short term and long term.

    Wat Tyler is our role model..he got it right in 1383…

  • B.B.

    Jared Taylor said:

    My great-great-grandfather, William Boggs, was an engineer who helped prepare the gun emplacements at Fort Moultrie

    Thats interesting. William Robertson Boggs was a regular contributor to AmRen during the early 90s. This would lead me to believe that Jared Taylor was writing under a pseudonym, but then I wonder what purpose would that have served? It’s not as if he was writing anything different under his real name.

  • Prophecy guy

    Call me crazy, but my dreams often come true. I dreamt on 4/11/11 that I opened a Bible on sale at a bookstore, that had a commemorative map of “The New Confederate States of America” inside of the Bible with President none other than Rand Paul.

  • Anonymous

    If only the south hadn’t had slavery. Such a foolish policy. Without slavery there never would have been a civil war. The war cost 620,000 whites their lives. But it also claimed uncounted numbers of civilians too and saw a drop in the birthrate during that time. Probably a million whites were ‘lost’ because of it. But this was in the 1860’s. How many millions of descendents of these people would there now be today but for the war? Slavery also burdened our nation with a large, emotionally hostile and unassimiable black population (through no fault of the black slaves themselves). The 1965 immigration act which is destroying the traditional American nation was also a legacy of all this. It was passed during the civil rights era, and was seen, or at least presented, as an extension of this. Americans everywhere lost out terribly because of slavery.

  • Anonymous

    What say we strike a deal, NAACP, and all other associated shake-down hustlers, charlatans and liars:

    We take down ALL civil war memorials.

    You , in turn, SHUT THE HELL UP, REMOVE ALL memorials to the failed saint, MLK, and every other “civil rights” “hero,” go your own way, and bother us NO MORE! Just get the hell on with your lives and shut up.

    That would be a sweet deal!

  • polistra

    Aside from politics it’s just good biology, or good engineering, or good programming, or any metaphor you like! Decentralization or subsidiarity is Nature’s way. Cells, tissues, organs, organisms, populations. Or subroutines, programs, operating systems, networks.

    Each level has its own responsibilities and its own limits.

    Empire is like cancer, with all other organs controlled and deprived to serve the tumor.

    Since 1989 the Soviet world has been recovering from the Nation-state disease, restoring natural divisions in which natural feedback can operate.

    This year the Arab world is starting to recover from Nation-state-itis.

    The American empire is still sick, but sooner or later the fever has to break.

  • Bernie

    “I suspect today’s Richmond fourth graders are not as Confederate as my class was. I’m certain their teachers are not as Confederate as Bela Outlaw was.”

    Almost all Richmond fourth graders today would be black (at least in the public schools). And the childless white professionals living trendy lives in The Fan and in Tobacco Row apartment buildings would be hostile or indifferent to the Confederacy.

    If Miss Outlaw is still alive, she can at least see that one of her causes – the integration of blacks in public schools – has come to pass. Yet for some strange reasons, they despise her beloved Confederacy and often deface the monuments on Confederate Ave.

  • Xenophon

    Mr. Taylor’s mother may have been a very nice person, but she is symptomatic of the problems western civilization is facing. And she is on the wrong side of the equation. My fear has always been that if and when the South finally achieves its independence, it will not be worth living in because of the influence that liberal Christians would wield. You can revere Robert E. Lee, but you cannot revere Robert E. Lee AND Martin Luther King at the same time. Without white supremacy, an independent South would be meaningless and would end up just like any other western welfare state. I know many liberal Southerners and I don’t want them anywhere near the levers of power.

  • Tim Mc Hugh

    Mason Dixon Line-The dividing line between Y`all and Youse guys…

  • Robert Binion

    We are all Dixiecrats now. As the rubs of multiculturalism beset more citizens, only greater can the demands for a centrifugal flow of political power become. And this is no vague hankering for Jim Crow and Jesus, either. Merely to pass a church gives this Southerner the heebie jeebies.

    Lately misplaced, I stroll Highland Avenue and sometimes see the goodhearted, under corporate auspices, walk for diabetes, stroke, heart attack and AIDS–all the frets of affluence. But me? I walk for Her:

    (visitvulcan.com)

    ‘Neath the tin god’s foot an aged crone stoops discarded aluminum to pluck, faith recycled, a goddess born again. Past “Dreamland” and shy of the sanctuary, Fanaei (dark-eyed Mediterranean beauty) slain lies. Another dead girl encounters a verb. Beneath the broken skyline, one black con the pretty lawyer takes twice. He will cry like a baby when the lawmen take him down.

    With hope turn I to find the ancient track, where hound huntress leads in refulgent night, beyond the forge of Hephaestus where the mountains are singing and Iphigenia cometh.

  • Anonymous

    “And yet, my mother would not be part of today’s Southern nationalism. She was a professional social worker and a Norman Thomas socialist. She was an early champion of women’s liberation, and campaigned for gay rights. She believed in the redemptive power of government, and went to her grave a committed liberal.”

    —————————————————————

    Too bad. His mother was a SOCIALIST and a LIBERAL, and campaigned for GAY RIGHTS!!!!! Doesn’t sound like any of the Southerners I would align myself with!

    Of course his mother would not be for Southern NATIONALISM! But, I AM!

    ————————————————————-

    He also states, “Let me be clear: I am not blaming today’s Southern nationalists for their political opinions, many of which I share. I am pointing out only that the broadly-based Southern patriotism of which my mother was a part is gone. There are not many Southern nationalists today who would march for gay rights or would expand the welfare state.”

    ————————————————————-

    Pray tell, how was his mother a Southern patriot? Thank God, her version of it is gone!

  • Sardonicus

    “I am convinced that if, today, the people of the South—or of any state—were as determined to secede as my ancestors were in 1860 and 1861, the federal government would not now slaughter them to keep their corpses in the Union.”

    I must respectfully disagree with Jared Taylor on this point. I believe our privileged elites would use deadly force to keep any State from seceding from the Union. Any, mostly white, state that left the Union would immediately be labeled an “illegal racist outlaw” State and attacked with all the means available to our Armed Forces. A non-stop hate campaign would be launched by the controlled media until most of the remaining country was whipped up into aggressive frenzy. Now, if Californian reverted to Mexico in the future that may be a different story for our multi-cultural privileged oligarchy.

  • Anonymous

    If only the south hadn’t had slavery. Such a foolish policy. Without slavery there never would have been a civil war.

    You have drunk the liberal revisionist cool-aid. In fact, the war was only peripherally about slavery. Other, more important economic issues were paramount, and from an ideological perspective it was fought over the distinction between Hamiltonian v. Jeffersonian political ideals. But now, it has all been reduced to the slavery issue because equality is the new religion. What else can we expect from those educated in government schools, and those tied to the neo-Marxist media?

  • The Bobster

    But it also claimed uncounted numbers of civilians too and saw a drop in the birthrate during that time.

    __________

    Actually, they were counted. They totalled about 50,000.

  • on the lam from the Thought Police

    4 — Anonymous wrote at 11:33 PM on April 12:

    If only the south hadn’t had slavery…Slavery also burdened our nation with a large, emotionally hostile and unassimiable black population.

    ——

    Without blacks the centers of our once great cities would still be centers of civilization. They would not be asphalt centers of crime and moral depravity.

    Think of downtown Washington, DC as one huge, affordable Georgetown. North East, South East, and North West Washington east of Sixteenth Street would not resound to the sound of gunfire and police sirens.

    There would be coffee houses, book stores, intriguing restaurants, theaters. . . tears come to my eyes just thinking about it. 🙁

  • sam

    I too have mourned the terrible loss of White lives during the Civil War. Just imagine how many of us there would be in a nation invaded and beset? Perhaps enough to fight.

  • Anonymous

    She was a professional social worker and a Norman Thomas socialist. She was an early champion of women’s liberation, and campaigned for gay rights. She believed in the redemptive power of government, and went to her grave a committed liberal.

    —————————————————————–

    With due respect, Mr. Taylor, your mother was a subscriber to this man’s ideology? He was a socialist and of the Christian LIBERAL mindset? We have so many Christians nowadays of the same UN-Christian mindset of this Norman Thomas! Heaven help us.

    http://tinyurl.com/3tqkatt

  • Anonymous

    The problem is a culture of critique has taught Americans to see what is good for them or ‘in their personal opinion’ as being the all important validation of ‘free will’ (speech, political beliefs, but never action…).

    Which is convenient because as soon as you’ve said your peace, you are expected to go back to grazing with the rest of the herd who are no more really interested in your opinion than you are theirs. Your lohing in vain complaint is nothing more or less than a sanctimonious validation that ‘you can still say it’.

    You just can’t do it.

    To be a part of a nation is to subsume your own beliefs about what is good for you or even what is ‘good and proper’ as moral absolutes and instead ascertain what is good for the nation as a whole. It is seeing that what shapes you as your children is the set of overall beliefs that you share with each other which are simple and straightforwards because they are not me-unique.

    They are explicitly common to all.

    The end of the United States may well have come that fine day in April 1861 when Lincoln insisted on defeating the deep South by demanding the conscription of 75,000 men to march through the border states to take them out. Something that a lot of fence sitters in the border States _outside the Confederacy_ felt was entirely wrong as overreaching.

    That was the day that we stopped believing that what was common between us was more important than what was equally held to high value as a right of disagreement. That was the day that commonality became uniformity.

    At all costs.

    And we see that, even now, in arguments about ‘diversity’ which point towards a forced fusion of divergent genetics and cultural evolutions. Which is not what natural (Darwinian: adaptation to unique environmental and social norms) diversitude is about.

    The funny thing is that we have all bought into this absurdity for it’s own sake, all too willingly. I think our masters even -anticipated- our ‘accepting our roles’ as polarly isolated antagonists.

    Amrenners could just as easily rally behind bad foreign policy, police state excesses in law enforcement powers or pathological fiscal irresponsibility dooming us to bankruptcy as an economy as much as a country.

    But we allow ourselves (as does the writer of this piece) to be racialized which is ‘so offensive’ that those who might otherwise agree with us in seeking an ‘alternative solution’ to the USA, instead look upon us as throwbacks and deviants from a ‘purer faith’.

    I think in the end, this says a lot about what we are willing to ‘go to the fullest extent’ for. We want a white homeland for a white nation. And nothing less than that is worth our avid interest, dedicated support and possible bloody sacrifice to achieve a resolution rather than a meltdown outcome from.

    But if the endgame is one where division along any number of political or racial lines (Mason Dixon or otherwise) brings a new nation that can at least _discuss_ the roles of minorities and outlaw the excesses of federalism in endorsing them for it’s own empowerments sake (_a balanced budget_ mandated, constitutionally, being one way to make sure of this); is it not possible that we have enough common ground in areas that are not racially charged that we can first break the power of the USA before exploiting the chaos of aftermath to create a followon state of our own?

    The Founding Fathers, despite being largely white men of means, had next to nothing in common and so debated for an entire sweltering summer the contents and meaning of the original Constitution.

    But they got the nation up and running in the meantime because they knew it was war and they had to stand together on the promise of eventually living together, as equals.

    If the South had a problem it was that it’s existence was a reaction to ‘Northern Aggression’ from the start and they never really took the lead in creating a self-determinative set of policies and outcomes that did not involve countering a preexisting Federalist agenda.

    We need to go further than that. We need a plan deeply rooted in a common cause, even if it ultimately, honestly, leads to differentiated outcomes which split us from the rest of America if not a common respect.

    And we have to be careful.

    For if the U.S. falls, Globalism will power-void rise through any rough breakup cracks and that may well be the overall ‘agenda’ this time. Instituting a radical political position that succeeds in making life _so difficult_ for middle road Americans that we once again react to the immediate situation rather than truly planning a followon beyond the vile excesses of princes and potentates.

  • sbuffalonative

    I have to agree with Sardonicus.

    If any state were to dare to become an independent, and heaven forbid, white state, the federal government would ‘burn the village to the ground in order to save it’. Then the UN would bring in ‘peace keepers’ and restore ‘order’.

    I don’t believe that any independent white state or country would be allowed to exist.

    The federal government couldn’t even stand a group like the Branch Davidians. They were literally incinerated.

    I don’t want to crush anyone’s dreams but any white people fighting this battle would be going it alone and their enemies would be happy to exterminate a threat and set an example. The press would join in condemning the separatists as ‘racists’.

    There would be a great deal to overcome and whites would have little (if any) support. Under current conditions, it would be suicide.

    Is it worth a shot? I’m not sure. A victory would be tremendous. A loss would be the end.

  • Anonymous

    “If only the south hadn’t had slavery…”

    …there still would have been a war to determine whether it would be the government in Richmond or Washington that would collect tariffs in the ports of Charleston and New Orleans, seeing as that’s what the “Civil War” was really about.

    And no disrespect to Jared Taylor’s mother, but it’s awfully curious to me how she seems to have been at the “tip of the spear” that was driven into the heart of traditional Anglo-American cultural values, which Taylor is attempting to resuscitate.

    Regardless of how she felt about the South, she wasn’t working in its (or the rest of America’s) interests. And that’s the salient point.

  • Anonymous

    Last night I watched a documentary about Camp Douglas. It was a prison camp for Confederate soldiers. It was located in Chicago. I never knew about it. But I heard all about Andersonville. The difference is that Andersonville was cut off from supplies by the Union. That was not the case with Camp Douglas. It was intentional deprivation. Disease, starvation, filth, torture. The hate and revenge went all the way up to the top…Lincoln and Seward. War criminals.

  • Jay

    There’s no more North and South now. We’re all embattled white Americans, wherever we are. We can armchair the war and its causes. It has nothing to do with the latino invasion we’re facing today.

    We are the generation that is seeing our nation invaded and occupied without a shot being fired. In 20 years time whites will exist either in isolated pockets, but the bulk will be ‘integrated’ in dangerous neighborhoods with nowhere to flee.

    Eventually the black/brown coalition will control the presidency and BOTH houses of congress. They will vote themselves whatever they want, like in South Africa, and any vestige of our kind will be hounded. I think a few states will try to break away when it gets to that point, but I fear, as another poster pointed out, that such renegades will be made an example of.

    Do you think that the majority black/latino U.S. armed forces (in about 20 years time) will bat an eye at wiping out white ‘rebels”?

  • Jupiter7

    Here are the options for Native Born White Americans:

    1)secession from the the anti-white Washington DC Republican-Democratic-Corporate police state.

    2)option 1) along with a strategy to reclaim Native Born White American living space lost to post-1965 high fertility nonwhites. Native Born White American regions form a confederation.

    Is Jared Taylor advocating option 1) or 2)?

    Option 1)will result in Native Born White Americans being surrounded by a very large and rapidly growing nonwhite population that will be heavily armed with a highly lethal military arsenal-the best one in the world paid for by Native Born White American Tax $$$$. Option 1) means that the Asians acquire the educational,technological and military infrastructure of California and several other states-a infrastructure worth seveal trillion dollars. Option 1) means the genetic borders of several nonwhite nations extend very deep into “America”. Option 1) means massive overpopulation in the nonwhite areas..these areas will experience ecological collapse. The Native Born White American regions will be the recipients of the fallout of this ecological collapse in the nonwhite areas of America. And, I should also point out that the White regions of the former America are going to feel very overcroweded…there will be severe water shortages and agricultural land shortages- among other things.

    Anyone advocating option 1) is living in a fantasy land….the purest of magical thinking.

    I can tell you with full confidence that the secessionist movements in America that Jared is giving his blessing to are pushing option 1) type secession.

    What I have just written is the kind of discussion-debate that we must be having on American Renaissance,vdare.com and Alternative Right.

    One last thing..option 1) type secession will result in the massive loss of the amenities that make life pleasant. The Blue Ridge and Smoky Mountains will be paved over for housing-or do you want to cram them into China style high-rise apartment blocks-for White Americans with middle class aspirations..so will the beautifull Adirondacks.

    Since what I have described above is a very high probability future scenario-there have been several specials about the scenario I have just laid out in the past year on Discovery,Nat Geo and History International channels-it is absolutely crucial fellow Native Born White Americans that we have a very honest discussion about secession.

  • Greg

    Can someone please explain something to me? Why do Southerners blame the North when it was the South that started the war by attacking Ft. Sumter?

    If Lincoln wasn’t assassinated, blacks may have been repatriated to Africa. It was a loyal Southerner who ruined that for all of us too.

  • Browser

    0 — sbuffalonative wrote at 3:30 PM on April 13:

    I have to agree with Sardonicus.

    If any state were to dare to become an independent, and heaven forbid, white state, the federal government would ‘burn the village to the ground in order to save it’. Then the UN would bring in ‘peace keepers’ and restore ‘order’.

    I don’t believe that any independent white state or country would be allowed to exist.

    ——————

    And I agree with both of you. Absolutely! We saw Madeleine Albright’s two-month bombing of little Serbia as a chastening example of that. And the warning words of General Clark that there is no room in the modern world for an independent mono-ethnic state. Well, maybe just one, but not us unfortunately. For us, it simply wouldn’t be allowed. Let us take heed. We have been warned.

  • Anonymous

    Actually slavery WAS the TRUE root cause of the war. Also Andersonville prison was surrounded by lush plantations.

  • Periapsis

    If it comes to that, whites will not think twice about bombing schools, shooting up stores and killing non-whites in any manner possible. In other words, get ready for a blood bath.

  • John Engelman

    If the standard of living for most Americans continues the decline it began during 2001, the division of the United States is a real possibility. I do not believe it will be peaceful, like the fall of the Soviet Union. I do believe it will be the fall of the United States. The parts will be less than the whole.

    After the fall of the Soviet Union the standard of living of at least 80 percent of the Russian people fell, often to subsistence levels.

    Currently, the per capita gross domestic product of Russia is $15,900. By contrast, in the United States it is $47,400.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=Russia&countryCode=rs&regionCode=cas&rank=70#rs

    The murder rate in Russia is the highest of any white nation, and higher than in many black nations.

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

  • HH

    I like what “Jay” above had to say. Although from a historical-romantic point of view I will always have a soft spot for the Southern Confederacy and the “Lost Cause,” I really don’t quite see the point Mr. Taylor is getting at in that piece. We, that is to say, Whites, are a long time removed from the Civil War, and too much of this lingering “Yank vs. Reb” stuff has always struck me as far more divisive for Whites than cohesive or helpful. It divides us – and that, particularly now, is a BAD message!

    It is also worth noting that I know plenty of folks from both the North and the South today, and there is NO difference when it comes to attitudes about race – the very same percentage “get it” and the same do not. Those who insist that the South is some sort of WN paradise just waiting to reveal itself are engaged in some serious wishful thinking.

  • Jupiter7

    A few more things to say about option type 1) secession:

    Pastor Chuch Baldwin is clearly an advocate of option type 1) secession..the fantasy land-magical thinking type of secession. Reading his posts on vdare.com about his move to Idaho-Pastor Baldwin’s own private Idaho-one imagines Pastor Baldwin-with his wife sitting next to him-in the lead conestago wagon..leading a large convoy of other Native Born White American refugees-from the “blessings of diversity no doubt-in a convoy of conestago wagons.. emerging out of an early morning mist on the Idaho praire with pronghorn galloping in the distance with Aaron Copeland music in the background.

    While Pastor Chuck Baldwin and the other White migrants to Idaho settle in and attempt to recreate a new society almost from scratch…the high fertility post-1965 Asians in America will have acquired a military,educational,industrial and technological infrastructure in California worth several trillion $$$$. It is an Aztec-Spainard comparison from an earlier era..we all know how that turned out. Exactly how will Pastor Chuck Baldwin protect the borders of his “Private Idaho”? If you go to Pastor Chuck Baldwin’s website he mentions 0 about post-1965 high-fertility nonwhite immigration…he links only to liberal immigration reform organizations that focus only on illegal immigration. So the explosion of the post-1965 high fertility nonwhite population will continue to explode at an exponential pace. But having discovered news laws of physics in Idaho, Pastor Chuck Baldwin and his followers will not experience the full-blown tsunami of ecological collapse in the American Southwest..all the pollution,disease and social chaos-all mixed in with military hardware and desperation-will magically remain in California and other Southwestern states.

    Option 1) type secession is complete insanity. I hope everyone here sees the obviousness of this. Native Born White Americans have a living space and it is called America. America pre-1965 is the only game in time..time to start the reclamation process..the reclamation process starts with a change in the current Native Born White American brain-state. Ultimately, we can’t run away from the invasion of our living space.

    There was a discussion-debate on American Renaissance two years ago about secession in the thread about Greg Johnson’s secession essay contest. Dig it up and read it again..and again.

  • ghw

    “The murder rate in Russia is the highest of any white nation, and higher than in many black nations.” -J. Engleman

    ………………..

    I recently read that the crime rate in Riga, Latvia is the highest of any in Europe, outside of Moscow (as per Wikipedia). I was absolutely shocked! I would have thought it to be practically zero.

    Riga, like Danzig, was one of the centers of the Baltic Germans, who lived and thrived there for 7 or 8 hundred years. Riga is known for its splendid Art Nouveau architecture, which the Germans left behind and which I would have liked to see. After the war, the Germans were all gone, ethnically cleansed, as with Danzig. Now it’s a nest of crime. That does it for any wish to see Riga!

  • Anonymous

    Most, about 70 percent of the White heartland of the mountain states, northern midwest and pacific northwest is owned by the federal government. Much of it is leased to agriculture, but it is owned by the federal government.

    It is also home to huge Indian reservations. I believe Pine Ridge is about the size of Austria. No way can Whites take all that land from the feds.

    Maybe we could long term leases from the Indian nations and live on their reservations and build our own mini states. But the reservations are under control of the feds and the feds would just kill us.

    Remember Randy Weaver? And that was just one family. What would be done to millions of us?

  • Bon, From the Land of Babble

    I do not believe it will be peaceful, like the fall of the Soviet Union

    John:

    The fall of the Soviet Union was anything BUT peaceful as individual tribes, forced together and lorded over by a tyrannical, murderous government promising “egalitarianism” wanted to sort themselves out along religious/ethnic/racial lines. Russia alone contains some 250 of these groups.

    When the Soviet Union fell in the early 90s, the explosions began across former Soviet-controlled lands.

    By the year 2000 more than 100 wars broke out and more than 5 million people were killed.

    The entire area is returning to its original condition of never-ending poverty and war.

    Bon

  • Anonymous

    25 – Greg

    The US government has a way about itself…it likes to start the pages of history lessons with the instances in which it was stung by hornets (Ft. Sumter, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin) but leaves out the prelude to all these incidents, the part where it was poking and sticking its hand in the hornets’ nest hoping to be stung.

    The April 1861 bombardment of Ft. Sumter were NOT the first shots of the WBTS. Cadets at The Citadel fired the first shots in early January 1861 at ships attempting to resupply Ft. Sumter. South Carolina had seceded in December 1860 and repeatedly called for Federal troops to abandon the fort. Lincoln had dispatched a stronger fleet to resupply the fort in early April 1861, which by this time had nearly exhausted all provisions.

    So the die was cast. And as usual, it was the US government that forced the issue.

  • Anonymous

    31 — Jupiter7 wrote at 8:07 AM on April 14:

    A few more things to say about option type 1) secession:

    Pastor Chuch Baldwin is clearly an advocate of option type 1) secession..the fantasy land-magical thinking type of secession. Reading his posts on vdare.com about his move to Idaho-Pastor Baldwin’s own private Idaho-one imagines Pastor Baldwin-with his wife sitting next to him-in the lead conestago wagon..leading a large convoy of other Native Born White American refugees-from the “blessings of diversity no doubt-in a convoy of conestago wagons.. emerging out of an early morning mist on the Idaho praire with pronghorn galloping in the distance with Aaron Copeland music in the background.

    —————————————————————

    I believe he moved to Montana, Jupiter7..

    31 — Jupiter7 wrote at 8:07 AM on April 14:

    A few more things to say about option type 1) secession:

    Pastor Chuch Baldwin is clearly an advocate of option type 1) secession..the fantasy land-magical thinking type of secession. Reading his posts on vdare.com about his move to Idaho-Pastor Baldwin’s own private Idaho-one imagines Pastor Baldwin-with his wife sitting next to him-in the lead conestago wagon..leading a large convoy of other Native Born White American refugees-from the “blessings of diversity no doubt-in a convoy of conestago wagons.. emerging out of an early morning mist on the Idaho praire with pronghorn galloping in the distance with Aaron Copeland music in the background.

    —————————————————————

    Baldwin moved to Montana.

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2010/09/chuck-baldwin-is-moving-to-montana-2/

  • Jupiter7

    Keep something in mind. Native Born White Americans haven’t even flexed their muscles yet. In Eastern Europe, governments fell because the governed withdrew their consent to be governed by oppressive governments. We haven’t even gotten to this stage yet. Some of you here are portraying the “US” government as an almighty invincible power. No government is almighty and invincible. Their power is always derived from the consent of the governed.

    Now having stated this, it will be a painful process. But what is the other option? Something even more painful. So, Native Born White Americans only have one option and that is to rebel against race-replacement.

    There are still thousands of Native Born White Americans who are in the “US” military and police departments. Some of you are assuming that these people will tolerate brutal government oppression against their own family members, cousins, friends and neighbors. This is far from obvious. Why would they give their allegiance to a government that is destroying the very community that gives their life meaning? Moreover, when they get out of the military and realize they have no job prospects..that is to say, the are no longer economically viable…why would they give their allegiance to this government and the economic,cultural and social system it represents. They are not sociopaths. The fact of the matter is, the US economy will collapse and it won’t be able to sustain the current military infrastructure. Who is going to pay for it?

    In the meantime we must ask our fellow Native Born White Americans what they are willing to give up for being a racial minority within the borders of America. Millions of Native Born White Americans haven’t even contemplated this question at all. And what they are going to have to give up are the very things that make life meaningful. Do you think millions of Native Born White Americans want racial minority status in a nation with a Chinese size population-and growing- with a massive loss of the amenities? They don’t. But we have to get them to think deeply about the consequences of this. Our job is to hammer this point home incessantly. If Native Born White American ever do become a racial minority,there will be no more family vacations to the great State and National parks..they will be paved over along with other wilderness areas…hammer this point home incessantly.

  • Question Diversity

    37 Jupiter wrote:

    There are still thousands of Native Born White Americans who are in the “US” military and police departments. Some of you are assuming that these people will tolerate brutal government oppression against their own family members, cousins, friends and neighbors. This is far from obvious. Why would they give their allegiance to a government that is destroying the very community that gives their life meaning?

    Because their paychecks are signed by some government. When their supervisors order them to go murder those white people, they will.

  • ChemE

    My knowledge of history is weaker than it should be, but didn’t the attack on Fort Sumter result in the death of one horse? Seems like a disproportionate response on the part of the Union, to invade the Southern states that had seceded, in a war that claimed over 600,000 lives in two countries with combined population of 30,000,000 people, 10% of the U.S. population today. How does that qualify Lincoln to be proclaimed the greatest of our Presidents? How would George W. Bush have fared in public opinion if 6.2 million troops died in Iraq instead of the few thousand that actually did?

    Lincoln is hailed as a hero for forcing the southern states to re-enter the Union. So why did our country support the Baltic states leaving the Soviet Union? Why did we support the breakup of Yugoslavia? Apparently, secession is fine for other countries, just not the U.S. Slobodan Milosevic is a war criminal, but Abe Lincoln is a hero.

  • Anonymous

    Much of the high crime rate in Russia is actually caused by Asiatic muslims.

  • Greg

    @ anonymous 35.

    So it was the US government’s fault the war-hungry Japanese attacked us on Dec. 7, 1941 also? Were they not imperialists themselves sticking their hands in the hornet’s nest trying to gain an upper hand? Needless to say, thank God for the bomb.

    That aside, you understand the federal government has the obligation to protect the property and land of the United States. Ft. Sumter was part of that land. Ergo, the South started the war.

    My last point remains unaddressed. Most Africans in the country today have ancestors that were forced into slave labor by white Southerners. White Northerners largely did not bring this type of stalk into the country, and if Southerners would have done the same we wouldn’t have as many blacks in the US today.

  • Diversity = Adversity

    We need to make school lessons on video, for homeschooling aid. It would be great if we had a video- lesson about the war of northern aggression against Southern Independence. As for secession, sadly the South is lost to the blacks but we can still take Missouri and Nebraska and Minnesota if we plan it out correctly. I am afraid that re-taking the corrupt bureaucracy of the USFED is not only unrealistic, it is folly. Secession is the only way.

  • Bon, From the Land of Babble

    Jupiter writes:

    Why would they give their allegiance to a government that is destroying the very community that gives their life meaning? Moreover, when they get out of the military and realize they have no job prospects..that is to say, the are no longer economically viable…why would they give their allegiance to this government and the economic,cultural and social system it represents.

    Jupiter: Don’t think the government doesn’t know this.

    That’s why ex-military are being branded as potential “domestic” terrorists.

    You write:

    But we have to get them to think deeply about the consequences of this. Our job is to hammer this point home incessantly.

    You have done a wonderful job here of informing us of the coming dangers we Whites face as we become a minority in our own homeland. As a minority in California, I already see the results of anti-White hatred via government policies. Spread the Word to everyone you know — before the government makes it illegal to do so.

    AND it is coming.

    BTW: I believe the government will unload its arsenal to eliminate us Whites when the time comes. It won’t be non-White government soldiers carrying rifles (assault or otherwise) it will be come from all directions, mostly above: biological, chemical and possibly nuclear weapons will be thrown at us.

    We are being dehumanized by the media and academia and non-Whites are taught by same to despise us, preparing them to carry out the orders of White cleansing.

    And from Greg:

    So it was the US government’s fault the war-hungry Japanese attacked us on Dec. 7, 1941 also?

    Yes. The USG goaded the Japanese into attacking us at Pearl Harbor. FDR was chomping at the bit to get into the European War:

    Franklin Roosevelt assured Winston Churchill privately that the United States would join England in its war, even as he reassured Americans publicly that their sons would never fight and die in a foreign war.

    It was only years and decades later that the full truth came out piece by piece… that Roosevelt had told his cabinet prior to Pearl Harbor that ‘we are at war; we now have to maneuver the Japanese into firing the first shot.’

    While continuing to tell the American people: I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars!

    The Pearl Harbor attack was neither a surprise nor ‘unprovoked.’…On Nov. 26, 1941, Secretary of War Stimson wrote in his diary,’The question was how we should maneuver them into firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.’

    For further information read here:

    http://tinyurl.com/43eykqe

    http://tinyurl.com/3vxxylq

    And finally, for evil war mongers in governments everywhere, but especially those in the USG, this wonderful quote:

    I believe that all the monuments we have raised to men who have been responsible for starting wars should be razed, and public toilets built on the remains. These, of course, would include Lincoln, FDR, Reagan, Clinton and both Bushes, plus a good many other presidents and congressmen.

    –Birdman Bryant.

    Bon

  • Jupiter7

    Question Diversity

    I do not agree with what you wrote. Many of these soldiers joined the military because they found themselves economically redundant in the US economy. The suicide rate of US soldiers who serve and served in Iraq and Afghanistan is way above the average. This should not be suprising. Many of the soldiers serving on Iraq and Afghanistan know the lies of the “US” Goverment….and they have seen the horrific atrocities inflicted on the civilian population of these two nations by the “US” military. A much higher than average suicide rate is exactly what one would expect from a population of soldiers with a functioning moral compass. They are not the mercenary sociopaths that you and others here have portrayed them as. I do not believe that they will slaughter their own family members, first cousins,neighbors, and friends from high school because the Federal Goverment orders it.

    The battle against race-replacement-and the reclamation of Native Born White American living space-requires Native Born White American Patriots to support a largely isolationist foreign policy. This will go a long way towards breaking the White American soldier’s enthusiasm for all the pro-mulitiracialism garbage that goes along-in a very deep way-with the invade the world and invite the world policy of the war criminals Hilary Clinton, Susan Rice and Samantha Powers.

  • Clytemnestra

    Mr. Taylor, my paternal ancestor was a yeoman farmer from Ohio who fought on the Union side of The War Between The States and as far as the average Northern yeoman or working class person, it was about the South’s insistence on using black slave labor. It was felt that it was only a matter of time before technology would make the need for black slavery obsolete and the South would unleash a black freed class on the rest of the country to absorb. Moreover, much as I can find myself swept away by the beauty of those antebellum Southern mansions in GWTW movies, I have corresponded with a descendant of my ancestor’s Southern working class yeoman equivalent and they do not remember the good old days like the Southern patrician class.

    Poor Southern whites constantly had to patrol neighborhoods and hunt down runaway slaves and be on alert in case there was a slave rebellion that would spread to their own farms and families and they did not appreciate it. Moreover, it was this class of people that lost the most after The War Between The States. Many of them lost their homesteads and ended up slaving on the plantations living in the slave cabins as sharecroppers and being treated with less solicitude by plantation owners than they gave to the slaves they own.

    I think William Faulkner gave the clearest picture of how things really stood among the Whites of the South with his anti-hero Abner Snopes in Barn Burning. The South cannot and will not rise again until they recognize that slavery more than anything else not only destroyed their region but is destroying the country as a whole. Slaveholders invited the problem in when they decided to use black slave labor and he is not going to be torn off of our necks without the fight of our lives.

    In the meantime, Whites need to stop engaging in “white flight,” end all this hopeless prattle about “secession” and start looking for serious ways to engage in cessation. Whites need to stop fleeing and rebuilding and providing a new tax base for Non-Whites to invade and despoil. Whites need to stand their ground, stop working so damned hard and make sure that not a penny of their money goes to the tax-man by having lots of their own children.

    If two or three Non-White families can move into a house in a nice area, there is no reason Whites can’t do the same thing. But our only hope of getting our country back is our own Cloward-Piven Strategy. WE need to destroy our social welfare system and force all these Rainbow people back to their countries of origin.

    The one major White majority state that no one bothers that much is West Virginia. Why? Because it is filled with poor White Appalachians who are more in a position to NEED help than GIVE help and our damned government leaves them the hell alone and the Forces of Diversity recognize that there is nothing there for them.

    Instead of creating attractive nuisances like “Whitopias,” Whites need to move to poor, majority White areas with NO bling to attract Mestizos and blacks and live very cheaply and simply while they grow their families. And there are a lot of these towns that are dying out all over America. We need to get a foot hold there and then fan out. Making sure that not a penny goes for government programs.

  • Jupiter7

    Anon at 7:35 and Clymenestra

    A research ecologist once told me that ecologists refer to Montana as the land of ice and rock, a land not capable of sustaining a large human population. Chuck Baldwin and his followers-and every other type 1 secessionist-have 0 clue about the ecological consequences of allowing post-1965 legal immigration policy to continue indefinitely. They will not be able to run away from the consequences of importing high fetility post-1965 legal immigrants. And lets be honest, with secession type 1, the distinction between legal and illegal immigration really becomes obliterated. The post-1965 nonwhites will control immigration policy on the living space they control…any one from their own race-based nations of origin will have the complete freedom to walk right in..this combined with post-1965 nonwhite high fertility levels will cause a ecological collapse in the nonwhite areas…and they will eventually make a move on the “Private Idahos” including the ones in the American South….there will be a lethal mix of violence,high tech weaponry,extreme resouce scarcity and desperation. Type 1 secessionists such as Pastor Chuck Baldwin are massively delusional if they think that they are not going to be the recipients of this aforementioned lethal mix. The fact that secessionist Chuck Baldwin completely ignores post-1965 legal immigrants just goes to show you just how delusional he really is. He is offering his followers and fantasy paradise that will never exist.

    Here is the crux of the problem that Native Born White American Patriots face..time is a very scarce resource..the clock is ticking louder and louder..millions of our fellow Native Born White Ameicans have never thought about what they would have to give up for racial minority status within the new “America” ..but Native Born White American Patriots know with complete confidence that if millions of our Native Born White Americans could expereince for one year this future hellish dystopia there would be a mass movement to deport not only every nonwhite illegal immigrant..but there would be a mass movement to deport Muslim “Americans” ,Hindu “Americans, Sikh “Amercans”, Hispanic “Amercans, Hmong “Americans”, Pakistani “Americans” and complete seperation from blacks. I am 100 percent certain of this..this is the fundamental paradox of the current situation.

    Jared Taylor,Peter Brimelow and Richard Spencer must incessantly hammer home the point about what Native Born White Americans are going to have to give up for racial minority status within the borders of “America” in their public appearances. And the way they should do this is by blending ecological collapse-and the loss of the amenities that make life pleasant-with race-replacment…this is way more important than sidetracking a race-replacement “debate” with a mind-numbing psychometric discussion of IQ scores.

  • WhitePride

    I think that many educated whites are fine living in racially diverse areas because they are the beneficiaries of cheap labor – gardeners, maids etc.. Crime is at a generational low so they are not too often confronted with the horrors of minority crime that led to white flight in the 70s adn 80s. I live in the very diverse Alexandria, VA community and many upper middle class whites will intentionally live in a diverse area as some sort of badge of merit. Infact, it is the heterogenous urban areas in the rapidly gentrifying neighborhoods that did not see the real estate crash – it was the white middle-class exhurbs that were crushed. These people just do not have any white pride and have been thoroughly brainwashed.