Race-Hustling Results

Thomas Sowell, Creators, October 29, 2013

Years ago, someone said that, according to the laws of aerodynamics, bumblebees cannot fly. But the bumblebees, not knowing the laws of aerodynamics, go ahead and fly anyway.

Something like that happens among people. There have been many ponderous academic writings and dour editorials in the mainstream media, lamenting that most people born poor cannot rise in American society any more. Meanwhile, many poor immigrants arrive here from various parts of Asia, and rise on up the ladder anyway.

Often these Asian immigrants arrive not only with very little money, but also very little knowledge of English. They start out working at low-paid jobs but working so many hours, often at more than one job, that they are able to put a little money aside.

After a few years, they have enough money to open some little shop, where they still work long hours, and still save their money, so that they can afford to send their children to college. Meanwhile, these children know that their parents not only expect, but demand, that they make good grades.

Some people try to explain why Asians, and Asian-Americans, succeed so well in education and in the economy by some special characteristics that they have. That may be true, but their success may also be due to what they do not have—namely “leaders” who tell them that the deck is so stacked against them that they cannot rise, or at least not without depending on “leaders.”

{snip}

A painful moment for me, years ago, when I was on the lecture circuit, came after a talk at Marquette University, when a young black student rose and asked: “Even though I am graduating from Marquette University, what hope is there for me?”

Back in the 1950s, when I was a student, I never encountered any fellow black student who expressed such hopelessness, even though there was far more racial discrimination then. We knew that there were obstacles for us to overcome, and we intended to overcome them.

The memory of that Marquette student came back to me, years later, when another black young man said that he had wanted to become a pilot, and had even planned to join the Air Force in order to do so.

But then, he said, he now “realized” that “The Man” would never allow a black guy to become a pilot.

{snip}

Both these young men—and many others—have learned all too well the lessons taught by race hustlers, in their social version of the laws of aerodynamics, which said that they could not rise.

You don’t hear about racial “leaders” like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson among Asians or Asian-Americans. Here and there you may see some irresponsible academics peddling that line in the classroom—some of whom are of Asian ancestry, since no race of human beings is completely lacking in fools.

But they do not get the same attention, or draw the same following, as race hustlers operating in black or Hispanic communities. By and large, Asian youngsters rise and fly.

{snip}

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  • HJ11

    Asians, Asians, Asians…I’m fed up with reading about Asians. They are not my kind and they pose a miscegenation danger caused by gene flow from them to us (aka bedroom genocide).

    • JohnEngelman

      The truth about Asian superiority hurts, doesn’t it?

      • Luca

        Higher IQ does not relate to superiority and you know it. I have met many intelligent Liberal-progressives who completely lack common sense, reasoning and logic.

        I would rather live in a society of moral, rational, hard working, respectful people with an average IQ of 99, than in a society of evil, cut throat, immoral, disillusioned, destructive geniuses.

        It takes many qualities to create a superior society or group of people.

      • HJ11

        There is no Asian superiority.

      • concernedcollegekid

        It depends how you define “superiority”.

        Are East Asians inherently superior to whites in dilligence, conscientiousness, and work ethic? I am nearly certain that they are, and that this is why they tend to do better in school. However, female students also tend to get better grades in school than male students. Is this because men are “inferior” to women? History would not suggest that this is so.

        So what explains this disparity? Why do women do better in school, whereas men tend to accomplish more when thrust into the “real world” as opposed to being placed in situations where everything you’re supposed to do is tightly–or completely–controlled by someone else?

        My surmise is that East Asians and women are more eager to embrace authority than men, maybe because due to our lower testosterone levels than white men, we tend to lack brilliant white men’s “drive” to do things no one has ever done before.This is why East Asians and white women primarily use their work ethics to be diligent students and go into occupations like medicine that require a high IQ but where you don’t have to do anything really “game-changing” to be successful.

        Personally, I think that white males are the most superior group in the world because I admire their spirit and innovation. I admire the Asian work ethic too. I guess it’s just a question of what you admire more. I think you’re entitled to your opinion and you aren’t wrong per se; you’re just basing “superiority” on different criteria than I would.

        • HJ11

          Nice answer. There is a form of passive/aggresive behavior exhibited by many Asians. (I’m not using passive/aggresive in the usual way it is used.) And, this includes more listening and accepting what is said from authority figures, than we see in some other groups.

          • ncpride

            I agree…..it was a nice answer. Despite all the praise for Asians and Jews, high IQ’s, work ethic… blah, blah, blah…. the fact is, White males have done more to advance mankind than any other demographic on the planet, and that, too, is indisputable fact. The truth about White male superiority hurts some here, I know.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            Imagine what would our planet be without white males? 90% of civilization wouldn’t exist!

        • JohnEngelman

          If what you say is true, an employer still benefits by having lots of Orientals on the pay roll. They will do what they are told to do. They will do it well. They will not cause problems.

          This is why Asians in the United States tend to earn more than white Gentiles.

          • HJ11

            Your first paragraph is true. Hire conformist drones and they will silently work like machines.

            Your second paragraph does not follow from the first.

          • JohnEngelman

            Orientals tend to earn more than white Gentiles because they tend to be more intelligent, more competent, and less prone to cause problems. If you still don’t understand, I am afraid I cannot help you.

          • Brian

            We are not getting a representative sample of Asians immigrating here either.

      • Your Yellow Fever does not equate to Asian superiority.

        • JohnEngelman

          Your yellow phobia does not disprove what I have posted about average Oriental performance and behavior.

          • As a rule I like Asians. Their ability to stay of of jail, keep a job and move upward is impressive. They beat (on average) everyone’s ass in academics.

            I can’t say that any one race is superior; but I’m pretty sure blacks (in general) are dead-last in many categories.

            Yellow Fever refers to your obsession.

          • Mike Lau

            “Yellow Fever refers to your obsession.”

            Also the obsession of many Amren supporters. John Derbyshire and Ramzpaul spring to mind.

      • e2657383

        You do realize your comment got 6 down votes and counting…right?

      • Spartacus

        You like Chinese hot-dogs, Engelman ?

      • APaige

        If Asians are so superior why is their success measured by achievements in fields created by whites? The last technological advancement by your Asians was the compass. If you collected a list of the greatest inventions, greatest discoveries, greatest achievements, etc. it would be completely dominated by whites. That is the truth and it feels wonderful.

        • JohnEngelman

          Accidents of history. Orientals are advancing faster than whites. They are likely to surpass us by the end of this century, if not sooner.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            You cannot call the achievements (or lack thereof) of whole civilizations “accidents of history” ( that is so Jared Diamond like ! ). In the case of collective achievements we’ll have to think in terms of collective talents.

          • JohnEngelman

            The Imperial Exam System bred the Chinese for superior intelligence. However, it was based on Confucian classics, rather than knowledge of science. This discouraged new developments.

            After the Chinese expelled the Mongolian conquerors they became xenophobic, and unwilling to learn from other cultures. In this they resembled Americans who refuse to learn from the successes of European Social Democracy.

            Because the Chinese were negligent in the study of science, they fell behind in military technology. This made China vulnerable to foreign aggression during the nineteenth and the first half of the twentieth century.

            However, China is catching up fast. I expect China to achieve world hegemony by the end of this century, just as I expect the United States to be dominated by a meritocracy of very intelligent Chinese Americans and Jews.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            I suppose you will be an ideal Quisling in that coming global Sinocracy.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            Mr Engelman you yourself gave me an up vote. Does that mean you will be proud to be a Quisling?

          • JohnEngelman

            It is a moot point. The Chinese have too much sense to invade the United States. If it makes you feel any better, I would fight such an invasion.

          • HJ11

            The moderm way of invasion is not done with marching armies, but by sending your genotype carriers walking across the borders, where like millions of Trojan Horses, they can let their genotypes out of their bodies to take over the nation they are invading.

            Hitler would have done better if he had just been patient and kept encouraging German births so the teeming population of Germans would walk across all borders.

          • JohnEngelman

            What matters is economic control and intellectual mastery.

          • HJ11

            The United States as a non-White nation probably will be dominated by others. Diversity doesn’t work for us Whites. When we live in and among our own kind, we tend to surpass all other peoples in our average quality of life and happiness along with our science and general domimance. But, when we, as now, lose our way and falsely believe that our greatness is due to ideas or our constitution or laws and not a product of our genes, we fall.

          • JohnEngelman

            The United States will be dominated by what Charles Murray has called “the cognitive elite.” That is to say, folks with well educated, high grade intelligence.

            White Gentiles will have to learn from Jews. They will have to learn how to thrive in a multi racial, multi ethnic society that rewards industrial strength IQ power. Those who can do this will thrive. The rest won’t.

          • PesachPatriot

            Is this the same european social democracy that led to Paris car-b-ques, the woolwich beheading and the husby riots in sweden? China as world hegemon will not be nearly as nice as the US was during its period on top from 1945-2001….

      • Brian

        You realize this is AMERICAN Renaissance, right? I give a tinker’s damn if the Asian IQ is 300. They have their countries. This one is mine.

        You seem to have trouble grasping this concept. But I suppose even the Ashkenazi bell curve needs a left side.

        • JohnEngelman

          How is the United States yours? From the beginning the United States has been a multi racial nation of immigrants and their descendants.

          Most Orientals in the United States perform and behave better than most white Gentiles. They are a credit to the United States of AMERICA.

          • Brian

            I was born here. I am a citizen. I have nowhere else to go that is required to take me. None of that applies to to foreigners looking to move here.

          • JohnEngelman

            I feel ambivalent about immigrants. I like them, even the Hispanics. I like the cultural diversity they provide. Nevertheless, I recognize that they contribute to the growing income gap in the United States, and the pauperization of America’s middle class.

    • borogirl54

      What are you talking about Asian nationals or Asian Americans who have been in this country for several generations and have assimilated to the American way of life? There is a difference.

      • HJ11

        There is no difference. Their DNA code is not my DNA code. I don’t care where they live, they are not White.

        • ShermanTMcCoy

          It’s the idea that Americans are a propositional people, where race plays no part. And to a certain extent, both major parties accept that as dogma.

          • Brian

            The party with 300 million guns doesn’t.

      • HJ11

        2nd reply: Genes are us. One does not acquire genes for oneself by living among those who are genetically different, but through miscegenation, one can change one’s family line and this is what often happens among Whites who don’t understand the difference between “American way of life,” and the genotype we are born with.

    • a multiracial individual

      White-Asian coupling is probably heavily WM/AF. While virtually no WF/AM. If you lived in cities in which there are large White/Asian populations, you would know that most people consider Hapa kids to be white.

      • HJ11

        I do live in such a city. And, they are not White no matter what people consider them to be.

        A White person is one who is born of a White mother and a White father.

        • shawnmer

          I guess your absolutism is admirable, on some level, but I don’t get your hostility towards Asians. The intelligence, industriousness, and lower likelihood of criminality is THERE, and it isn’t arguable. Unless your prepared to dismiss mountains of statistical evidence just as outlandishly as the left.

          They even seem much more disposed to keeping to themselves and leaving us alone! That gains them no points with you?

          • IstvanIN

            This is about our survival as a distinct people, not as a hybrid people. It is as simple as that.

          • HJ11

            They are not my kind. I believe in non-interference with those who are not my kind, and I expect the same in return. We Whites could be the dumbest, laziest and most criminally inclined of peoples but we still have a right to exist and not to be wiped out by gene flow from peoples unlike us.

          • M.

            Yes, but why all this hostility!
            Admiring them doesn’t necessarily lead to miscegenetation. One can be racially aware enough to admire, say, the Japanese (or certain traits thereof) without intermarrying.
            What we should promote is racial awareness among Whites, not hostility towards others. If enough Whites are racially aware, the race-mixing problem will sort itself out.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            You don’t understand biology. Physical proximity always leads to miscegenation, no matter how great “racial awareness” is. Before the 1960s Whites in the US were very “racially aware” and yet miscegenation with Blacks happened. On average Blacks in the US have 20% white genes and light Mulattos have “passed” into the white genepool. Same in South Africa. A whole class of “Coloreds” was created in spite of Apartheid and the Boers themselves are said to have 6% non-white genes. To survive as such a race needs an exclusive territory. That is not a form of “hostility” towards other races but biological necessity.

          • M.

            You’re implying that some people will always interf**k if put near each other, which may be true. But this has more to do with sociology than biology.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            Well, then call it socio-biology, the effect is the same.

          • panjoomby

            i love your term “interf…”! that should be the accepted standard term in the field – that’s awesome!

          • HJ11

            I am concerned about the survival of the White genotype, the expansion of the White genotype, and the evolution of the White genotype along a certain trajectory that requires that this White genotype not be infected with the genes of non-Whites of any type.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            They would gain even more points if they would leave us.

          • Brian

            If someone objectively proves that their child is more intelligent and industrious than yours, are you going to offer to trade kids?

        • borogirl54

          In South Africa, Japanese were considered honorary whites because South African companies were doing business with them during the apartheid era.

      • Someone (look in the mirror) is watching more than their fair-share of Asian Porn.

        #TiaTanaka

      • borogirl54

        It depends on what the kids look like. If the kids look more white, they claim to be white. But if they look more Asian, they can claim to be Asian.

        • HJ11

          Claims don’t make it so.

    • M.

      Asians can be used as the best proof that main reason of Blacks lagging behind is Blacks themselves.

    • Erasmus

      I agree with you about being fed up with always have to hear about “Asian superiority,” but I think the positive thing we should take away from Sowell’s essay is that someone is finally calling out $harpton and Jack$on for the pimps and grifters that they are. In other words someone has started giving names.

  • Alexandra1973

    It’s not “The Man” that won’t allow black pilots, it’s lack of ability.

    Instead of whining about something you’re not able to do, focus on what you can do.

    • M.

      Blacks would have to go through massive and ruthless eugenics and social selection for the high-IQ for them to catch up with Whites. And it would take a few centuries for the Thomas Sowells to become a majority among them.

      Other than that, I don’t see what they could do.

      • Brian

        Genetic engineering is the only realistic hope.

    • bilderbuster

      Blacks focus on what they do best & that’s breeding.
      The only reason there are more Asians than Blacks is because Blacks haven’t mastered the art of being able to feed themselves over any length of time.

  • borogirl54

    Asians see education as a means out of poverty. One thing that is not often mentioned is that Asian parents will spend money sending their kids to SAT prep classes to make sure that their kids get the highest score possible that will get them admitted to a good university. If an Asian kid wanted to be a pilot, he would have no problem joining the Navy or Air Force and making that dream come true. He would realize that the “Man” is a figment of anyone’s imagination and would not stop him from getting what he wanted.

  • JohnEngelman

    When I moved to downtown San Jose, California in January 1978 the area was so blighted it looked like a bombed out city. It was also dangerous. When I told people where I lived they winced.

    The influx of impoverished Vietnamese refugees restored San Jose. Now it is one of the safest big cities in the United States.

    • e2657383

      Not sure if srs or just making a not so obvious sarcastic post.

    • borogirl54

      The same thing with the Tenderloin in San Francisco. They moved there in the 1980’s cleaned the place up and opened small shops. They later moved on to the suburbs or other parts of San Francisco.

      • Brian

        I thought that gentrification was what gays were for…

  • bigone4u

    Dr. Sowell avoids the underlying question of why blacks listen to their race hustling “leaders.” My opinion is that they just don’t want to face the fact that most of them don’t have what it takes to succeed, which is brains and character.

    • Luca

      Actually you can compensate for low IQ with hard work, integrity, discipline, study and goal setting.

      Too many blacks are just spoiled children, comfortable with a ghetto culture of dependency, and blame.

      • a multiacial individual

        1. High IQ, Strong Work Ethic
        2. Low IQ, Strong Work Ethic
        3. High IQ, Weak Work Ethic
        4. Low IQ, Weak Work Ethic

        Is this your scale? The poverty among Hispanics (who work) really compels me to switch 2 and 3.

      • Hey – I resemble those remarks!

        • Sick of it

          Many white people consider their mental gifts to be much lower than they are in actuality. The opposite is quite frequently found in non-white people.

    • dukem1

      The Sharptons, Jacksons, et al offer the path of least resistance.

  • Luca

    We all have obstacles to overcome in life. For some it’s their height, weight, wearing glasses, not being attractive, being introverted, lack of education, being poor, disabilities, accents, being unpopular, etc.

    Obstacles were meant to be overcome. They are walls you must find your way around.

    Blacks, with the help of their enablers and handlers, have found it profitable to complain and blame. It is the path of least resistance and they like it like that.

    Blacks like Tom Sowell are too few and far between.

  • Spartacus

    “By and large, Asian youngsters rise and fly.”

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    The benefits of having a three-digit IQ and impulse control, something the blacks will never have, regardless of who their leaders are .

  • Fighting_Northern_Spirit

    Maybe we shouldn’t encourage too many Asians to fly. Remember Captain Sum Ting Wong, Wi Tu Lo, Ho Lee F*k, and Bang Ding Ow?

    • dukem1

      To say nothing of Ming the Merciless!

    • Spartacus

      Yu So Wei Ciss !

  • MBlanc46

    Of course, Sowell, for whom I have some respect, declines to notice the fact that most Asians are intelligent and hardworking and that most blacks are neither.

  • Jefferson

    if Asians are less sexually active, why are there so many Asian female porn stars ? Why are Asian countries like Philippines and Thailand among some of the most popular destinations in the world for Western male sex tourists ?

    Thailand and Philippines are one big red light district.

    • JohnEngelman

      When Professor Rushton uses the word “Orientals” he means Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and probably Vietnamese.

      • Jefferson

        Have you ever watched Japanese porn ? Japanese women can be quite obsessed with sex.

        • JohnEngelman

          What matters is that Orientals are less likely to have illegitimate children than are whites, and less likely to become divorced. They tend to be more sexually responsible than whites, just as they are less prone to break the law, and more likely to be intelligent and successful in careers.

          Orientals earn the description of “the ideal minority.”

          • Brian

            The ideal minority is the one on an outbound flight, back to their motherland.

          • JohnEngelman

            This is where they have chosen to live. They belong here. Most of them perform and behave better than most whites.

            I have documented that many times, using material I have found on this website.

          • Brian

            Where they have chosen to live? I don’t suppose the taxpaying, natural-born citizens have a choice in that.

        • Mike Lau

          Not according to recent studies, articles about which were posed on Amren last week. Apparently 40% are not into sex.

          Obviously you are obsessed with Oriental sex (or at least Oriental porn). I’m not. I’m not into Japanese porn –unlike you.

          • JohnEngelman

            Oriental women are exquisite. They are more likely to be virgin brides and chaste wives than are white women.

        • puffdaddy

          I actually think it is Japanese men who are the most obsessed with sex – have you ever looked at a Japanese “comic book” or wondered why, in every major American and European city there are “secret” private clubs that cater only to Japanese businessmen (yes it’s illegal – try stopping it) which are staffed by Western women and women only to serve their various needs?

    • borogirl54

      Because these bar girls and prostitutes have very few opportunities to make money. Many also try to find a Western husband who will take them away from the poverty and the degradation that they face every day.

      • JohnEngelman

        That is very well spoken.

    • Mike Lau

      Huh? What proportion of the Asian female population are involved in porn, let alone are porn stars? You got some studies there to show us?

      why are Asian countries like Philippines and Thailand among some of the most popular destinations in ….

      Firstly Filipinos and Thais are not the sorts of East Asians we are talking of here. Secondly why do so many mail order brides come from Russia? Duh!

    • Brian

      Asia has a lot of people from which to whoremonger.

  • IKantunderstand

    Asians are smart. Jews are smart. So what? Neither group was involved in the leaps of technology, art, literature, architecture, or the establishment of CIVILIZATION. I mean, you can call it Western Civilization, or, you can call it what it really is: White, Christian people civilization. The Asians didn’t develop a masterful society. Nope, all they created was a huge amount of people who wanted out. On their crippled feet. These people, the Asians, who are sooo smart, eat the nests of birds, they eat dogs and cats, they eat monkey brains while the monkey is still alive. They honestly believe, these oh soo smart Asians that the horn of a rhino will confer upon them magical sexual powers. Uhhuh, moving on… the other so so smart group on the Earth, well, let’s just say that they never accomplished much either, at least, not until they started having babies with White Christian women. So, it took a number of generations before they started to excel. I am not going to refer to their advancements in art. They have debased it. Look, they have debased everything White Christians have accomplished in this world. They did not contribute anything to the development of CIVILIZATION. I must say though, they are non-pareil at bringing CIVILIZATION down.

    • M.

      They did get a lot of Nobel Prizes though. And deservedly so.

      • IKantunderstand

        Yup, as soon as they included White European DNA. Count up the prizes that the Sephardic branch garnered.

    • borogirl54

      Not all Asians eat bird nest soup or shark fin soup or cats and dogs. Japanese do not eat these things.

      • Mike Lau

        Most Chinese don’t either.

    • Bossman

      Jews are at the heart of Western civilization. Christianity began as a Jewish religion. The Greeks got their alphabet from the Phoenicians who were closely related to Jews. Pythagoras was a Phoenician, Euclid may have been a Greek-speaking Jew.

      • Franklin_Ryckaert

        Those are not only very few but also very dubious proofs of your thesis that “Jews are at the heart of Western civilization”. “Christianity began as a Jewish religion”. True, but it spread in an Hellenistic millieu and was soon Hellenized. Afterwards if became partially Romanized and even Germanized. I hope I don’t have to draw attention to the strong anti-Jewish element in Christianity, which was already present in the New Testament itself, a fact that Abe Foxman is not tired to emphasize. The Greeks did indeed derive their alphabet from the Phoenicians, but so did the Jews. The fact that Pythagoras had a (Hellenized) Phoenician father (and a Greek mother) of course doesn’t contribute to the idea that “Jews are at the heart of Western civilization”. I could find no information that Euclid “may have been a Greek speaking Jew”. At least there seems to exist no Jewish tradition to that effect. The Jewish Encyclopedia doesn’t mention it.

  • HJ11

    An appeal to authority doesn’t work with me. The whole field of IQ testing needs to be revised.

    • JohnEngelman

      Now you sound like a liberal who refuses to accept the congenital inferiority of most blacks.

      One who refuses to accept well documented facts is beyond the pale of rational debate.

      • HJ11

        Nope, I sound like what I am: A member of Mensa and what some call Super Mensa and one who was also on his college’s “genius” TV team, but I believe that IQ tests are not testing what many think they are testing and that the field of IQ testing will see some real changes in the years ahead.

        One area to look at is how IQ scores correlate with one’s success in life (after a proper definition of success in life is established). I know many people in Mensa who have jobs such as stock clerks and similar things and some live in rented rooms or in their cars and are accomplishing nothing in life. Are they really that intelligent? Well, when you talk to some of them, they can carry on intellgent sounding conversations, but how do we reconcile their jobs, their living conditions and their lack of accomplisments, with their supposed high intelligence?

        I would take a turn on the expression “stupid is as stupid does,” and say “intelligence is as intelligence does,” and if intelligence just sits around contemplating one’s navel until one dies, we have a problem with the term “intelligence and with IQ testing which is how we pretend to find who is intelligent and who isn’t.

        There’s more going on here than intelligence, per se.

        • Franklin_Ryckaert

          You confuse theoretical intelligence with practical intelligence. Successful people have great practical intelligence (and mostly great social skills) but not necessarily great theoretical intelligence. People with great theoretical intelligence don’t have necessarily also great practical intelligence, hence they might very well be social failures.

          • JohnEngelman

            All kinds of intelligence correlate. A brilliant man is likely to learn from social failures, and acquire skills that will make him likable.

          • HJ11

            Right. You spotted my implicit meaning. There is not one type of IQ, and IQ tests seem to be failing to recognize that fact.

          • Brian

            You want IQ tests to measure someone’s social skills?

          • HJ11

            What is it that you think IQ tests are testing? Intelligence? Define the term.

          • Brian

            Fluid intelligence or fluid reasoning is the capacity to think logically and solve problems in novel situations, independent of acquired knowledge. It is the ability to analyze novel problems,
            identify patterns and relationships that underpin these problems and the extrapolation of these using logic. It is necessary for all logical problem solving, e.g., in scientific, mathematical and technical problem solving. Fluid reasoning includes inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning.

            Crystallized intelligence is the ability to use skills, knowledge, and experience. It does not equate to memory or knowledge, but it does rely on accessing information from long-term memory.

            Crystallized intelligence is one’s lifetime of intellectual achievement, as demonstrated largely through one’s vocabulary and general knowledge. This improves somewhat with age, as experiences tend to expand one’s knowledge.

            The terms are somewhat misleading because one is not a “crystallized” form of the other. Rather, they are believed to be separate neural and mental systems. Crystallized intelligence is indicated by a person’s depth and breadth of general knowledge, vocabulary, and the ability to reason using words and numbers. It is the product of educational and cultural experience in interaction with fluid intelligence.

            Fluid and crystallized intelligence are thus correlated with each other, and most IQ tests attempt to measure both varieties. For example, the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) measures fluid intelligence on the performance scale and crystallized intelligence on the verbal scale. The overall IQ score is based on a combination of these two scales.

        • JohnEngelman

          Those are anecdotes. I believe that in order to get into Mensa one needs to test at least 130 on an IQ test. That places one in the upper two percent of the distribution. People in that elevated group tend to have more positive outcomes in their lives than those in, let us say, the bottom two thirds of the IQ distribution. That is not in dispute.

          Nevertheless, luck matters in life. So do realistic aspirations. A man with an IQ of 135 who keeps trying to achieve things that require an IQ above 150 will keep failing. He will drift from one low wage job to another, hating all of them. His hatred for his job will corrupt his personality, causing him to be disliked by co-workers, supervisors, and the customers of the companies he works for. Thus, he will be fired again and again.

          A person with an IQ of 135 can become an adequate doctor or lawyer if he applies himself. He should not try to emulate Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, of John Lennon, each of whom tested at 160.

          • HJ11

            Tell us of the tests that you believe Einstein, Gates and Lennon took and when they took them.

          • Mike Lau

            Not really. There have been Nobel Prize winners with IQs less then 140 – Alvarez and Feynman spring to mind. Watson and Crick also did not have stellar IQs, I believe.

            IQ is something that simply correlates with success. And it is a relative measure – simply being something that has been standardized for a large group of people. If we were tested against early 20th century whites, average scorers would appear to be geniuses today.

        • panjoomby

          try hunter, schmidt, rauschenberg, linda gottfriedson – there is a lot of well-done research – also see ASVAB research – also herrnstein & murray’s Bell Curve, etc. In general, IQ is very predictive of life success – but, picture the X-Y scatter plot – there will always be a few outliers (those with high IQ who are not successful, etc.) Still – in general – it really, really works!

          • HJ11

            I asked for the citations to the specific tests and results for the particular individuals mentioned..

        • Mike Lau

          we have a problem with the term “intelligence and with IQ testing which
          is how we pretend to find who is intelligent and who isn’t.

          Not really, Mr Super Mensan.

          One can easily test the number of fast twitch fibres one has and assign say an ‘athleticism score.’ The score would have real meaning and be a valid indicator of underlying athletic potential.

          However if the owner of say a high ‘athletic quotient’ did not go out and train and never made use of his talent, then he obviously would not be considered a great athlete. But his ‘athleticism quotient’ nevertheless would still remain the same and be a valid metric.

          • HJ11

            Apples and pears.

        • Brian

          No one has claimed that intelligence has a 1.0 correlation with ‘success’, however that is defined. You are asking the IQ test to do much more than it what it’s designed to measure.

          Would you question the accuracy or precision of your measuring tape, simply because the tallest people aren’t always the best at basketball? No one claimed that height is a perfect predictor, or the only one, of basketball prowess.

          • HJ11

            Mensa was started because it was believed that an association of intelligent people could solve some of the world’s problems. It has not been able to do that. Many Mensa chapters spend their time in very trivial pursuits (literally).

          • Brian

            For me, Mensa is simply a refuge from being surrounded by mouthbreathers like LarQuavious, whose numbers abound in the ATL. It would be difficult for the top 2% in IQ, who do not necessarily have top scores in other respects that correlate to money or political power, to change the world, especially in a one-man-one-vote democracy. Your vote will be swamped by the marching morons, every time.

            I wrote some of the embedded software for the original Blackberry…not curing cancer but a lot of people liked it for a time, and it changed the world some. I’m a musician (was semi-pro for awhile) and have had some people tell me one of the albums I did was their favorite record in their collection. That’s good enough for me. What more do you expect? People are busy making a living and raising families– Mensa isn’t the Manhattan Project.

      • Sam

        You ignore everything that doesn’t agree with your endless “IQ and Asians” mantra. You are a hypocritical troll who has no business being on this website.

  • Spartacus

    And who exactly are your “people” ?

  • M.

    “Some people try to explain why Asians, and Asian-Americans, succeed so
    well in education and in the economy by some special characteristics
    that they have. That may be true.”

    Wow, a black race realist! That’s a rarity!

  • Spartacus

    In all fairness, that’s mostly the Chinese’s doing. I’ve never heard of Japan or Korea contributing to this .

  • Spartacus

    You sure ? I thought they were only poached for Chinese medicine ingredients. What do the Japanese and Koreans use them for ?

  • Spartacus

    The africans aren’t your people . They’d eat you alive the first chance they’d get .

    • a multiracial individual

      Which is why I made my initial point about eugenic philanthropy.

  • mrcan

    Asians do well in White societies. Jews do well in Christians societies. Where is their GRATITUDE????? If the West stopped buying important plastic crap and cheap textiles China would fall apart tomorrow. Western capital is building Asia. Meanwhile most of the Asian mass of humanity lives in abject poverty and squalor. What about the global slavery index with China, India and Africa leading the way. Don’t tell me about successful foreigners. They should be expressing their gratitude to the West. Which the Filipinos do, one of the few Asian races to exhibit any kind of gratitude..

    • WR_the_realist

      Well, it’s contrary to human nature to be spending very much of one’s time being grateful to others. So I’m satisfied if non-whites are simply not antagonistic towards us. So far as I can see, most east Asians aren’t. As for the abject poverty and wretched working conditions in China, I’m afraid that’s typical in the early industrial phase of any country. Great Britain and the United States had notoriously bad conditions in factories during the 19th and early 20th centuries.

      The criticism that “they only make cheap junk” was made of Japan in the 1950s and 60s. But the Japanese quickly moved up the quality ladder and nobody associates Japanese products with junk today. I am sure that the Chinese will try to follow the same trajectory.

      • Mike Lau

        As for the abject poverty and wretched working conditions in China, I’m
        afraid that’s typical in the early industrial phase of any country.

        Great point. China is going through a period that is essentially the equivalent of America’s gilded age.

        And even more recently – 112 men died constructing the Hoover dam.

        The problem is capitalism.

        • WR_the_realist

          You should look at the horrors that occurred under Bolshevism in the Soviet Union before you blame everything on capitalism. Millions were worked to death as slave labor during the Great Terror, and millions more were deliberately starved to death.

          The real problem seems to be human nature.

      • Brian

        For them to follow that trajectory, their gov’t and culture would have to loosen up and allow renegades. It’s difficult for me to imagine a Chinese Steve Jobs for example.

        • WR_the_realist

          Japan has managed to dominate many aspects of technology without any Japanese Steve Jobs.

          • Brian

            Yes, but I was referring to your statement about China, specifically. Plus, Japan has a more American-style democratic capitalism. China has their ‘state capitalism’ and a heavy-handed culture… they have national filters on the Internet, and less freedom of speech. Technology is one thing; blue-sky innovation– starting something new from your garage– is not something either country is well-known for doing, China especially.

  • M.

    We may have created the greatest civilizations of all time, but we could learn a thing or two from the Asian ethnocentristic attitude. Because the lack of it is exactly what’s exterminating us.

    • Mike Lau

      I don’t see this Asian ethnocentrism. If it did exist it we would be lynching white men for sleeping with Chinese (or Japanese) women, like you people did to blacks for same not too long ago.

      But I have never heard of a white man getting killed, let alone attacked, for sleeping with a Chinese woman.

      • Manimal Cracker

        That is because the Chinese men are relieved that someone else is doing the disagreeable deed.

      • M.

        “Ethnocentric” means they prefer their folk over others. They work for the benefit of their fellows first, and are racially and ethnically aware. And Asians do have that. Although not to the extent where they lynch the majority people for sleeping with they women.

        Whites used to attack blacks who slept with white women at a time when race-mixing was taboo. And at that time, I don’t think any White men could be seen with Asians.
        But all in all, it’s probably high time the social stigma for race-mixing was brought back.

  • borogirl54

    But their children speak English. They probably demand that they learn English in order to succeed in school and to get a better job.

  • borogirl54

    Each Asian group has its own organization. Japanese Americans have the JACL, the Japanese American citizens league. The Chinese have the organization of Chinese American citizens. The Koreans have the Korean American Coalition. They do not need a central leader such as Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

    • Mike Lau

      Italian Americans, German Americans, Irish Americans similarly have their own respective organizations. What’s the big deal?

  • borogirl54

    Many new Asian immigrants may not qualify for government grants to start a business because they do not have a credit history. So among themselves, they will start a fund that will members contribute to and they then take turns to use the money to start a business.

  • Garrett Brown

    Your mother is Japanese/German and she let a negroid get in between her legs? That’s disgusting.

  • HJ11

    Yup. Tell an Asian that something is true, and he or she will often accept that if you are in a superior position to them (such as a teacher). Tell a White kid the same thing, and he’ll probably argue with you all night long.

  • Bossman

    Asians will kill any animal if they can find some value in it.

  • Funruffian

    I have nothing against Asians personally. My only beef is that they are far less generous and open than Europeans as a group and culture. Perhaps I am envious of their social disposition in that they are far less susceptible to being manipulated and thwarted from exterior forces. Whites should learn to adapt to some of those social traits .

  • Bossman

    Here’s my own unscientific take on this: East Asians don’t drink alcohol much because their bodies are intolerant of it; that alone will make you smarter and richer. East Asians are not much into Americans sports; that alone will make you smarter and richer. East Asians are not much into loud pop music; that alone will make you smarter and richer. East Asians males appear never to get too horny; that alone may make you smarter and richer. So what else is left to do but to read books and work hard. And finally it is better to have no leaders than to have hopelessly naive clowns like the Reverend Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as leaders.

  • WR_the_realist

    When those very same IQ tests show that whites are smarter than blacks or Hispanics I’m sure you’d be quick to say those results are objective. The real world results do speak for themselves. Jews are vastly over represented in precisely those fields that require a lot of brains. Whether its law, mathematics, physics, upper level management, or publishing, you’ll find that Jews make up a much higher percentage than their 3% of the population. (Of course this is precisely what feeds the resentment of the Stormfront crowd.) Likewise Asians are over represented in engineering and the natural sciences. Most of the people on these forums aren’t scientists or mathematicians. But those who are know that an increasing fraction of the published papers in their fields have authors with names like “Li” or “Matsumoto” or “Kim”.

    IQ tests are considered useful precisely because they do correlate well with real world results. Which means that they are in fact objective.

  • WR_the_realist

    We can always find some reason to demonize another group. America’s own Carolina parakeet went extinct due to over hunting by white men who shot them to provide feather’s for white womens’ hats. Whites also wiped out the passenger pigeon for no particular reason at all. They came very close to driving the buffalo to extinction. Naturally I would like to see Asians stop buying ivory and rhino horn but I don’t see any evidence that Asians are worse than other people when it comes to destruction of nature. Every group needs to improve on that score.

  • You should read Satoshi Kanazawa “the intelligence paradox”. The higher your IQ, the less common sense you are likely to have. Higher IQs are also more utopian, unrealistic and disconnected from reality.
    I’d say you need to re-think your obsession with IQ.

    • JohnEngelman

      According to Charles Murray a high IQ, which is a genetic gift, is connected with practically every desirable outcome in life.

    • Mike Lau

      Agree. IQ is overrated. It is something that simply correlates with real world achievement, but is not necessarily the main reason.

      Just like height correlates with ability to play basketball, but not all tall people can play basketball well.

    • Brian

      Is there a test for common sense that I am unaware of?

  • a multiracial individual

    Depending on how pervasive the technology, desire, and practices are. Such could be achieved in centuries (perhaps less). Consider Ashkenazis, they gained a median IQ twelve points higher in less than a millennium. And that was organic selection.

    • Franklin_Ryckaert

      That wouldn’t help them much : average IQ of African Blacks is 67. Add 12 points and you get 79, still close to retarded.

  • Transpower

    I like conservative Blacks like Sowell. They do not pick my pocket or break my arm. What I don’t like are Leftists of any race who want Big Government and socialism. Men and women of ability do best under laissez-faire capitalism and limited government. Leftists believe in the creed of the unearned, not the creed of the earned.

  • Mike Lau

    Agree – Filipinos are one of the nicest race of people around, much more friendly than Chinese.

  • Mike Lau

    There’s more and more whites coming to reside in East Asian countries, and the Asians treat them like kings. Most posters here are aware of that. I never heard of a white man lynched for dating a Chinese woman.

    • Manimal Cracker

      Well, that post is pure bull. I have known people that have lived in China. The Chinese do not like westerners. If someone has money, they may be catered to, but they sure as hell don’t want any poor white people moving in.

  • Mike Lau

    Some Chinese idiotically do this now. Just as whites slaughtered hecatombs of the same types of animals not too long ago, just for ‘sport’.

    This included Theodore Roosevelt and King George took part in hunts with thousands of animal victims – again, just for sport.

  • Mike Lau

    Just google “Roosevelt safari” for images. Dead rhinos, elephants, lions all over the place. Was Teddy Roosevelt reprehensible for this ‘wanton’ slaughter?

  • Mike Lau

    And Europeans got their numbering system and the decimal point from the Arabs and Indians.

  • Mike Lau

    Unfortunately Japan does not stop whites in Japan from getting it on with Japanese women.

  • Mike Lau

    While every single East Asian nation is objectively superior to white European countries in terms of almost any measure you can think of. The exception is China, which is behind the rest of East Asia, just like Russia is behind Western Europe. But China is catching up fast.

  • Mike Lau

    Absolute bollocks. Chinese society was far ahead of the West in most things up to a couple of hundred years ago. We were far wealthier.

    China’s wealth and wonder was what drove Europeans to get out into the wider world in the first place. All those early explorers were obsessed with trading with China —because then, we had all the goodies.

    • Manimal Cracker

      Sorry dude. I studied Chinese history. The masses lived in extreme poverty. Also, Rome was an advanced civilization before China was.

    • HJ11

      Ah, no. Pepper and silk were China’s wealth and wonder.

    • Sick of it

      Nothing says advanced like being amazed by a water clock.

  • JohnEngelman

    Blacks have the most testosterone. That is why they commit all those crimes.

  • Brian

    IQ helps, but it isn’t everything.

  • Brian

    Splice some Tom Sowell genes in there.

  • JohnEngelman

    The Chinese allow immigration, but they are selective. Their attitude is: we won’t let you move here unless you have something to offer us. That usually includes a professional degree in a high tech field, and fluency in Mandarin.

    That should be our attitude.

    Instead we tell inferior people in inferior third world countries: come over here; you will be better off.

    It is dangerous to say this. Few people have the courage to say it publicly. Nevertheless, the poverty, corruption, and tyranny of the third world, and especially sub Saharan Africa, is due primarily to the biological inferiority of the people who live there.

  • JohnEngelman

    I think the United States is on the downward trajectory. Several posters here seem to be looking forward to the collapse.

    If China can reduce its population in a non coercive way, the way Japan and Taiwan have, and if it can adopt a democratic government, the way Japan and Taiwan have too, China will dominate the world.

  • Brian

    There are no ‘white countries’ anymore, which seems to be the way you like it.

  • Mike Lau

    You have seen the ‘sadistic pleasure’ of Asians? Really?

    Most cases of animal cruelty are from callousness, not sadistic pleasure —those who take ‘sadistic pleasure’ toward any life form are psychopathically inclined, and there is no evidence that Asians are any more this way than whites, and in fact there is some evidence that they are less so.

    From a 2007 Amren article:

    “There is almost complete consistency in the racial differences in outcomes that can be considered measures of psychopathic personality. In everything from child behavior to sexual precocity to adult crime rates we find Asians at one extreme, blacks at the other, and whites, Hispanics and American Indians in between.”

  • SFLBIB

    “…many poor immigrants arrive here from various parts of Asia, and rise on up the ladder anyway.”

    Has anyone considered perhaps there is “yellow privilege” too.