Transcript: Frank Gaffney Interviews Jared Taylor

Editor’s Note: Below is a transcription of an interview between Frank Gaffney and Jared Taylor on September 29, 2015. Mr. Gaffney was criticized for the interview and removed it from his website. Here is Mr. Taylor’s open letter to Mr. Gaffney about this decision.

You’re listening to Secure Freedom radio with Frank Gaffney from the nation’s capitol in Washington, D.C.

Frank Gaffney: Welcome back. Jared Taylor joins us, I believe, for the first time. I’m very pleased to have him with us. He is the editor of a very wonderful online publication, American Renaissance. Also, he is the president of the New Century Foundation. He formerly was an editor at The Washington Times and the author of six books, including “White Identity: Racial Consciousness for the 21st Century” and also “Shadows of the Rising Sun.” He speaks Japanese and has actually taught it at Harvard and it’s always a pleasure to welcome new talent and Jared, thank you so much for taking some time to talk with us, among other things, an important new piece that you had at American Renaissance just recently under the provocative title of “Is this the death of Europe?” Welcome, good to have you.

Jared Taylor: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure.

Frank Gaffney: So, is it the death of Europe, what we are seeing at the moment, in terms of this migration, this invasion, call it what you will, hedgerow is another term for it.

Jared Taylor: It could be the death of Europe if it continues. What’s happening now is touted by liberals as a refugee crisis, but it’s not really refugee crises at all. Most of the people that are pouring into Europe now don’t have a ghost of a shadow of a claim to being legitimate refugees under the UN definition. They’re coming because they have made a mess of their own countries and they want to live in a country that works better and Europe works better than all of these places they are coming from. But, if the Europeans do not have the nerve to turn them back, they will simply be overrun by these people who are alien religiously, culturally, racially, and eventually would be the end of Europe as we know it.

Frank Gaffney: And you know, you start off this piece with a very interesting reference to French author Jean Raspail, who basically anticipated a similar kind of phenomenon decades ago and we’re watching this play out as though Europe hasn’t been forewarned. Talk a little bit if you would, particularly, Jared, about the role that Angela Merkel is playing to the extent to which this is constituting not only a mortal threat to her own country, but to the rest of Europe as well.

Jared Taylor: I think Angela Merkel — she’s working under a terrible difficulty, and that of course is the burden of Germany’s past. And if Germans were to say, “Well we must defend the Christian nature of Europe. We must defend Europe as an outpost of our civilization, our genius,” well, my gosh, that would be considered nothing short of echos of Naziism. Whereas, it’s the Eastern European countries — interestingly enough, Hungary in particular, has taken a very strong stand. They say, “we are a Christian continent and we simply cannot survive this kind of onslaught.” As I’m sure you know, Hungary was joined by the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Romania in absolutely refusing Angela Merkel’s proposal that these so-called refugees be divided out by quota to all of the members of the European Union. So, I think that despite the fact that Angela Merkel — I think was about five years ago — said that multiculturalism had failed in her country. Despite the fact that Turks are already an indigestible minority, an unassembled minority in Germany and are the cause of all sorts of problems, I think she feels the weight of history upon her and is not in a position to say, “we must defend our borders in the name of our Germanness.”

Frank Gaffney: You’re finding, of course, among the casualties in all of this, quite apart from the Germanness, as you put it Jared Taylor, the question of the Europeanness, the whole European Union experiment, much of it built around this idea of open borders within the EU at least is now very much, I think, in doubt. Do you anticipate that the Eastern nations, which are now mounting a rather vigorous opposition to what Merkel and Hollande in France and to varying degrees, others are engaged in here, will bring about, if not the demise of Europe as a civilization, which I think is what you were getting at a moment ago, but at least this European experiment?

Jared Taylor: The thing with an experiment in removing borders, it worked to the degree that the individual nations were able to protect the exterior borders of Europe. If all of the European nations had had a common policy on who they would let in to an individual country, then it didn’t matter so much that there was free movement of people from one European Union country to another. But as soon as what happened in Italy and Greece, as soon as people just came over in droves, hordes of newcomers — initially they come across the Mediterranean from Libya, by the hundreds of thousands. Now they are mainly coming from Turkey into Greece in these rubber boats of these Greek islands that are just a few kilometers off the coast of Turkey. But once they started coming in such numbers and the Greeks and Italians were more or less overwhelmed, then borderless Schengen area made no sense at all because the failure of one country or two countries meant that all of Europe could suffer the consequences. Now, Germany played a particularly unfortunate role in saying that Germany welcomed them. They said, “Okay, you Italians, you Greeks, if you can’t handle the influx, send them to us. We’ll take 800,000, maybe a million.”

Frank Gaffney: Well limitless is what Angela Merkel actually said at one point.

Jared Taylor: Yes, she did, and she’s right about that from a legal point of view. The UN conventions on refugees don’t set any kind of limit. But, as soon as she said 800,000, a million, and no limits, then that meant all of the people living in these terrible, unfortunate, miserable places all around the world, but especially Africa and the Middle East, the signal to them was come one, come all. And, boy, they’re coming. And they will continue to come until they are stopped.

Frank Gaffney: And Jared, what are the other pieces of this which I must say, I’m not sure is going to eventually, but it would seem, based on what’s happening of late, more likely to not. And that is at some point, there will be a very vigorous resistance to the infusion into these countries of large numbers of people who do not assimilate, many of them Muslim who bring with them a Sharia ideological program that is antithetical to the culture and civilization and polities of those European nations. Do you anticipate, particularly as we’re seeing now evidence of increasing violence, notably against women, on the part of these refugees, not all of them by any means, but some, rapes now becoming a serious problem in some of the refugee holding areas and demonstrations and in some cases, worse, that are breaking out in various parts of Europe when they’re not accommodated to their satisfaction, that you may see Europe devolving once again into the kind of cataclysms that it has from time immemorial with bloodletting letting place. Is that overreaching at this point or is it perhaps a distant possibility?

Jared Taylor: I certainly hope that that does not happen. On the other hand, if that is what it takes for Europe to survive as Europe, then I think that is better than Europe facing oblivion. We have unleashed now, what would be, I think, not an exaggeration to call almost demonic forces. We have close to a million now of these so-called refugees, most of whom are young men. They are young, single men. Most have probably never seen a woman in a bikini in their lives. Most of them are part of, as you say, this Sharia culture that despises any woman who walks around without her face covered or with her legs bare. These people are going to be all sorts of trouble for Europe for many, many years to come.

Frank Gaffney: Well, quite possibly if President Obama has his way for us as well, given his intention to bring them here.

Jared Taylor: [laughter] That’s right.

Frank Gaffney: This is a subject for another conversation, what this might portend for the United States. Jared Taylor, I hope you’ll indulge us when we come back to you for that conversation and more in the near future. But, in the meantime, I appreciate tremendously the work you are doing at American Renaissance. Keep it up, and please get back to us very soon.