Russia at the Crossroads
Thomas Smith, Special to AR News, November 6, 2009
Wednesday’s celebration of the new Russian holiday, People’s Unity Day, was a massive gesture of nationalist fervor by patriotic Russians. Some 200,000 people from many different groups marched and rallied all over the country, and a considerable number of were explicitly racial nationalists.
Some organizations called the celebration the “Russian March” to emphasize Russian nationalism over “people’s unity.” DPNI, an organization whose name translates as Movement Against Illegal Immigration, went even further and called its event “March Against the Invaders.” It boasted a uniformed drum corps and a turnout of 7,000 in Moscow (see photos). DPNI had the enthusiastic support of even more ultra-nationalist organizations such as the Slavonic Union and the Russian National Union. There were a few clashes with “anti-fascist” militants, but this year’s People’s Unity Day kept convincingly to what has become a five-year tradition: a clear demonstration of Russian commitment to Mother Russia.
People’s Unity Day was established by President Vladimir Putin in 2005 to replace the Soviet Union’s big political holiday, the November 7 anniversary of the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. After Russia junked Marxism-Leninism, it made little sense to celebrate the revolution—though the Communist Party rejects the new holiday and still insists on celebrating the revolution.
Nationalists understood right away the importance of giving the new holiday a thoroughly patriotic flavor. Everyone had expected that the new holiday to be nothing more than a day off work, but even at the first celebration in 2005, nationalists surprised the country by showing the same spirit as the historical event the holiday commemorates: the liberation of Moscow from Polish invaders in 1612.
Unfortunately, Russia today faces an existential crisis, just as it did in 1612, and it was with the same urgency that Russian patriots took to the street on November 4.
Immigration
Russia has a border that is 12,331 miles long and there are plenty of people in the 15 countries on the other side who are trying to get in. Two countries, Finland and Norway, are prosperous and Belarus and the Baltic republics are stable. Poland and the Ukraine are borderline Third World, but their people are at least of kindred stock. Georgia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Mongolia, and North Korea are grindingly poor, and many of their people want to live in Russia. China is a special case: Chinese cities are prosperous, but many Chinese rural areas are miserable. Russia thus gets a stiff dose of neighboring Asians and Muslims, along with illegal immigrants from Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, and the Middle East.
Russia is even worse than the United States at keeping track of gate-crashers, so no one knows how many have sneaked in or overstayed their visas. At least 100,000 a year were said to be arriving in the late 1990s, and when the Russian economy was growing at more than 6 percent a year from 2004 to 2008, the demand for cheap labor must have sucked in many more.
Most illegals go to the big cities, but many go to the Urals and the Eastern Frontiers to work in mining and timber. Many immigrant groups, but particularly the Chinese, form enclaves, and although they are in Russia, they reproduce the communities they had in their homelands.
Like population figures, the cost of government aid to illegal immigrants is unknown. Most Russians get free medical care and education, so most illegals probably get these benefits, too.
Estimates of the number of Chinese in Russia run into the millions. Chinese come for the obvious economic reasons, and to escape the population pressures in a country of 1 billion people, but some also come to escape the one-child policy. Chinese are especially attracted to Siberia, whose sparse population is such a contrast to their own country. There is a legitimate fear of Chinese simply outnumbering Russians in certain areas. Already, Chinese are deeply involved in organized crime in those vast reaches were Russian military and police are stretched thin.
Other demographic threats
Another terrible demographic problem Russia faces is the flesh trade. It is estimated that over the last 15 years, some 3 million women have been ensnared in the sex trade and sold essentially as slaves, mainly to Muslim and Asian countries but also to Israel. Women are tempted with offers of attractive-sounding jobs and find themselves imprisoned in foreign brothels. Although the word is out on these schemes and Russian women are becoming more wary, some are simply kidnapped. The authorities estimate that human trafficking is third only to illegal drugs and arms sales in organized-crime profits.
But even if Russia could control its borders and keep its women at home, it faces an even greater long-term problem. The current population of 140 million is rapidly declining. For years, Russian fertility has been well below replacement level, and the average Russian woman now has only 1.41 children in her lifetime—well below the 2.1 necessary to keep a population going. According to projections, in 50 years, the population could drop by one half, to just 70 million.
Under the Soviets, contraceptives were hard to get, and abortion became a means of birth control. Russia still has one of the highest abortion rates in the world, and a woman can become infertile after three operations. Bad public health standards have contributed to an epidemic of human papilloma virus, which also contributes to infertility.
The Kremlin recently instituted financial incentives for childbearing. This is better than nothing but the incentives go to everyone in the Russian Federation, including Muslim sub-groups who have more children than Russians anyway.
After waking up from their 70-year nightmare of Communist rule, Russians had hopes for something much better. The terrible disparities in wealth that have followed the badly handled transition to capitalism are only an additional burden to a people who have suffered far more than they deserved. And yet, Russians are deeply, fervently patriotic. Although some think of People’s Unity Day as a celebration of multiculturalism, the majority do not. All over the Internet, there are photos of huge crowds, not just in Moscow but in all the big cities. These people know their country is at the crossroads, and that their very survival as a people depends on what they do over the next several decades.
Would that there were as many Americans who see the crisis as clearly as Russians do.
Mr. Smith is an American who travels frequently to Russia.
[Editor’s Note: Video of a DPNI march earlier this year is available here.
DPNI’s “March Against the Invaders.”
The DPNI drum corps leads the march.
(Posted on November 6, 2009)
Comments
It is clear that the Russians will survive but I am not sure if they can keep Siberia, there are simply too many Chinese south of the border.
Even if they lose Siberia, Russia will be the last stronghold for the white race.
America is clearly gone, infiltrated with marxist and non whites at all levels of goverment, education, media.
Whites in America have no political power at all, UK is in an even worse position, miscegenetion is common and the Brits are really colour blind.
Russia should try to entice the South African whites to come to Russia, they would give Russia a much better chance of survival.
Ironically western culture will be preserved in Russia.
Poland is not ‘borderline third world.’
It is per capita twice as prosperous as Russia and much more Westernized and advanced in every way, shape, and form.
I sure do hope Russians wake up and keep their WHITE heritage and country! Sounds like the Chinese among other 3rd worlders are entering Russia. Not a good sign at all. Please, Russia look at America, the UK, Sweden and Ireland to name a few that have been invaded by the throngs of nonwhites. Look at South Africa when Whites allow blacks or any other race to rule over them. Do not follow our or their example.
2 — Phil wrote at 7:28 PM on November 6:
It is per capita twice as prosperous as Russia and much more Westernized and advanced in every way, shape, and form.
I find it amusing that so many still think along the lines of Polish jokes when they judge Poland and Poles. The average IQ in Poland is 106 - just a point behind Germany and Holland according to Dr. Richard Lynn and his cohorts: http://tinyurl.com/5v64xw.
What is the average IQ in the US these days? With the influx of low IQ third world types, the average is plummeting toward the basement.
The link above is also interesting as it does show that the Northern European countries have high average IQ’s. Anyway, the Poles are not stupid. The marxists had control for a long time and ruined the country, just as they are now ruining the US.
Phil wrote at 7:28 PM on November 6:
“Poland is not ‘borderline third world.’”
Agreed. Simply put: that was a totally uninformed (and bigoted, perhaps?) thing for Thomas Smith to write about Poland. At best it shows his ignorance of the place (I’m not Polish, by the way).
Phil, as you correctly pointed out, Poland is in much better shape all-around than Russia. For starters, Poland is one of the most ethnically homogenous White countries in Europe (over 96% of the pop. identifies itself as ethnic Polish according to the 2002 Census).
http://www.stat.gov.pl/gus/45_4520_PLK_HTML.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Poland
http://www.staff.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/ph/sci/distra.htm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html
If I’m alive when the last nail is driven into the coffin of this country (which, from the looks of things, won’t be long now), Poland would be high on the list of countries I’d seek asylum in, if the Polish people would have me. You can keep Russia; it’s as far gone as America.
Marches are always fun. But Russian nationalist youth would spend their time better at home making babies, or getting involved in local politics throughout the country to build up a basis for support in case Putin ever relaxes his grip on the State. DPNI has the right idea. One of their slogans is “Russian [should] help Russian” That’s what we all need to do more of.
I think much of the Marxist infiltration of the United States originated in the USSR over the past 90 years. Thus I place a lot of blame on Kremlin subversives for the destruction of America, even as our “white kindred” in Russia rally against the chaos they sought to create here. But Americans since 1963 bear the blame for allowing it to happen. Such a sad, sad tragedy.
The decline in Russian birth rates is probably a direct result of the infertility caused by abortion, coupled with ridiculously poor communist run health care of yore.
Phil, I can understand your being upset with the negative offhand note about Poland; it was wrong. However, it’s a mistake for an Amren reader to imply ‘westernized is better,’ as in “Poland is … twice as prosperous as Russia and much more Westernized and advanced in every way…”
As you are no doubt aware, there are many aspects of Westernization, particularly multiculturalism, that will prove, unless something is done, to be extremely damaging. These are effects of the major act of westernization, EU expansion into Poland and its neighbours.
Fortunately, so far there remain important ways in which Poland and most other new EU members are NOT westernized: they are not apologizing for every aspect of their traditional culture, they are not trying to import as many non-Europeans as they can, and they are not promoting the building of lots of new Mosques. However, the pressure from the treacherous EU elite is great.
1 EEuro: There are lots of Chinese south of Siberia, but they can’t all move north. Siberia can’t support all those millions. Survival of urban populations in a wilderness requires good transportation networks to bring in food and other necessities, and ship out the local products. How many people would live in Fairbanks, Alaska, or Billings, Montana, or Alice Springs, Australia, without rail and air connections? Russia needs to maintain and improve its physical ties to its eastern territory, and strictly limit direct travel to China in order to ensure that its commerce goes towards supporting Russians instead of foreigners. Trains, trucks, and people can travel in both directions, so it would be best to let any roads or rails heading south fall into decay. Let any business with China go through the seaport of Vladivostok. Bejing is a lot closer to the Russian Far East than St Petersburg is, and with good connections, the Chinese could more easily sustain a population there than the Russians could.
Russia is not necessarily a white country - although ‘Russians’ are - myriad non-white nationalities were forcibly incorporated into what is now Russia. Russia belongs to Chechens, Yakuts, Tartars and other Turkic peoples, as much as it does Russians.
The Chinese lost huge swathes of territory to the Russians in very recent history - those areas with large numbers of Chinese immigrants were historically Chinese until very recently. Eastern Slavs in the Far East are the real interlopers. It should not be unexpected to them that they will come into contact with East Asiatics.
They also stripped Mongolia off us - and tried the same with Xinjiang.
Having said that Russian-Chinese relations are not that bad - at a governmental level they are very good, but also at a personal level - I have found Russian women have little of the racial arrogance of even purportedly liberal Anglo Saxon women - the latter are scornful of Asian men.
Despite their lack of political correctness and even obvious racism, I like Russians, who I have foundsurprisingly similar to Chinese in many ways, some which are difficult to describe - its in the vibes.
One thing I have been impressed by recently is Russia’s defense of her recent history, and also the memory of Josef Stalin - a significant number of Russians still hold him in high regard.
Still - China needs to reclaim in future, at the very least, Outer Manchuria.
A good article, except for one thing - “average Russian women” (or any other), cannot have 1.41 children or 2.1 children per lifetime. These fertility numbers are fractional averages, and cannot be said to represent anyone in the statistical group. What CAN be said is that Russian women, as a group, have an average of 1.41 children per woman per lifetime, falling short of the replacement level of 2.1.
So, there, the hyper-corrector, Techno Dan, strikes again.
John Liu does have a point; as we discussed in the article on empire, as it seems that majority of comments leaned towards rejection of empire. So Russia must relinquish its empire in order to survive. Perhaps giving away the Far East to China may be the best strategy, then allow the Russians to solidify the traditional Rus lands. Or allow the Chechens, Tatars, and Yakuts to form their own respective countries.
Russia is far more aware of its demographic situation than most western countries and unlike them is doing something about it. Mainly by financial incentive but a lot of propaganda as well. The results are already showing, last year it had its highest birth rate for 20 years.
-10-
The rejoinder is to say that the Mongolians of colonised Inner Mongolia, where they are now a minority compared to the Han, enjoy a higher standard of living than the Mongolians of Mongolia. Even if that’s true, it’s not the point.
One of the heroes of the Philippine Nationalist Movement - Rizal, I think - said that he preferred the prospect of living in a dreadful Third World mess under Filipino rule than under a well-run society run by Americans. [I am rephrasing here.]
“After waking up from their 70-year nightmare of Communist rule, Russians had hopes for something much better.”
And I do hope that it turns out much better for the Russian. NOT only the physical has been messed with - - so has the mental. The communists not only wanted to control the body, they wanted to control the mind. Messed with the folks and have left a legacy that will be hard to overcome. Abundant resources with sound management and it can go well. But the jury is out.
Russian nationalist youth should focus on laying off the alcohol and learning a useful skilled trade. Russia has more than enough unemployed college grads who don’t know the material even to the extent of their dumb profs’ curricula. They do have a skilled worker shortage though. As for local politics in Russia, hey, doesn’t work like that :-). It’s about as productive as getting involved in politics in Beijing (to say nothing of Pyongyang).
During the 1500s and 1600s, Poland-Lithuania was the largest country in Europe (outside of Russia) and a Great Power. After all, in 1683 the Polish king had saved Vienna and driven off the Turks, thus changing Europe’s history and saving it from a Moslem fate. If not, today we would be bowing to Allah and speaking Turkish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_map_1648.PNG
But due to a complex set of circumstances, chief of which was lack of a strong central government, Poland’s power declined and it’s political system became paralyzed. The great nobles gained more power than the king, could do as they pleased, could overrule the king, and became virtually independent — thus making Poland easy pickings for its neighbors. And Poland ceased to exist.
In Western Europe, the powerful nobles, over the centuries, had gradually been subjugated and subordinated to the will of the monarch. In Poland, it went the other way. The great nobles (the “szlachta” ) became more powerful than the king. And since he did not inherit the throne but was ELECTED by them, he was dependent on their good will.
The king also could not protect the serfs and other social classes from the arrogant szlachta who resisted reforms and were absolute masters on their own lands, and who had the legal right to disregard any of the king’s decrees if they chose to! In 1768, the once-powerful Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth became a protectorate of Russia. By 1795, it had completely vanished from the map… not to re-appear until 1918.
Something to think about for those states-righters who resent too much power in Washington. Yes, central government — TOO much of it — can become oppressive, but too little has its harmful effects too. It leaves you open to the vultures, as Poland showed.
Mongolia never belonged to China. Conversely, Genghis Khan conquered China. After his death, Mongolia was disputed territory, until 1921, when Mongolia declared its independence with backing from the USSR.
John Liu, so what if Russians have a “lack or political correctness”? After being both force-fed and spoon-fed “correct thought” from 1917 to 1991, they have every to think and feel as they want, not how some government bureaucrat wants them to think. They’ve had enough of that.
As regarding “racism”, they are racially conscious, and I don’t think they ever swallowed the Marxist pablum about how all races are brothers, etc. They know that you can’t make a Russian out of a Nigerian or Malian. They had no use for Stalinist bootlicker Paul Robeson, the most useful idiot ever employed by Moscow.
Funny how, after the breakup of the old USSR, a lot of the people in the Central Asian republics now want TO GO LIVE IN RUSSIA. That’s like Haitians and Mexicans wanting to swarm to the USA, after denouncing us as “occupying Yanquis”, in the past.
John Liu wrote that Russians and Chinese are similar in some ways and I fing that laughable. I live in Las Vegas and deal with every race and nationality one can think of. The Chinese are aggressive and nasty. They rarely tip and demand a lot(I don’t oblige them). Chinese are the ones that are “obviously racist” Mr. Liu, not the Russians who are nice most of the time.
It is ironic indeed that nationalism, which never could be understood or dealt with by Communists, sees its renascence in the original revolutionary state. Re “One thing I have been impressed by recently is Russia’s defense of her recent history, and also the memory of Josef Stalin - a significant number of Russians still hold him in high regard…”
Someone wrote,” Poland is not ‘borderline third world.’
It is per capita twice as prosperous as Russia and much more Westernized and advanced in every way, shape, and form.”
OK so Poland is regressing since it is Westernized. You see I’m a white and a white survivalist. Being Westernized these days is not a good thing so it is obvious that Russian is more progressive than Poland since it is less Westernized and still “white thinking”.
“Funny how, after the breakup of the old USSR, a lot of the people in the Central Asian republics now want TO GO LIVE IN RUSSIA. That’s like Haitians and Mexicans wanting to swarm to the USA, after denouncing us as “occupying Yanquis”, in the past.”
The fact is though there are huge Russian populations in those same Central Asian Republics - I think in Kazahstan at least 30% of the population is ethnic Russian.
And by and large the Kazahks and the Russians get along quite well - and produce some beautiful women.
“Mongolia never belonged to China. Conversely, Genghis Khan conquered China.”
I’m afraid it did. It was part of the Qing empire.
In terms of irredentism - the ROC government on Taiwan is far more ambitious than the PRC mainland government.
“John Liu wrote that Russians and Chinese are similar in some ways and I fing that laughable.”
“John Liu, so what if Russians have a “lack or political correctness”? After being both force-fed and spoon-fed “correct thought” from 1917 to 1991, they have every to think and feel as they want, not how some government bureaucrat wants them to think.”
In the end, Russias are not a victim demographic swamping - that is as ridiculous as invading someone elses home and then telling the original owners that they are in your way. Absurd.
The fact is Russians have post-imperial angst, - but they may still fare well - after all they are one of the BRICS.
ghw: Something to think about for those states-righters who resent too much power in Washington. Yes, central government — TOO much of it — can become oppressive, but too little has its harmful effects too. It leaves you open to the vultures, as Poland showed.
That may be true if your central government uses its strength to uphold its own Constitution. In particular, Article IV, section 4 which says, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion”
Has our ever larger government done anything to protect us from the invasion from the south? No, but it spends trillions to invade other countries that are no threat to us. The neocons are determined to waste more trillions restarting the cold war against Russia. The prudent policy is the one policy the neocons will never accept — keep a close eye on their nukes, but otherwise just leave the Russians alone.
Dear Americans (those who as I see from your postings are good-wishing towards Russia)!
I see some Poles here are a bit cold about Russia, but they forget that they suffered (as well as Russians themselves suffered) from not at all Russian chiefs of Russia, e.g. Jews in 1918-1930s, then Stalin.
Alexander, Russia
Russia, in spite of the encroachment by others, is not even close to the multicultural mess the US is in. In fact, it is nowhere as close to the diversity drivel of the entire West, and the reason, of course, is that they have not been influenced by the same kind of radicals prevalent in the US, Europe and Australia.
People can blame other ethnicities for the West’s plight, but, in the last analysis, the greatest harm has come from indigenous Europeans and their heirs in the US.
Yes, the George Soros types do great harm, but not nearly as much as the talking news heads on T.V., the Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid types.
The bottom line is that whites have a large segment of airheads who think being altruistic is just the only way to go, and they just love to think we’re all one big happy family, even in the face of admitted intentions to destroy whites by non-whites.
It doesn’t faze them one bit to listen to a Jeremiah Wright or a Louis Farrakhan or a Mex professor saying his people are going to take over and if they have to they’ll kill whites. What goes through that dab of grey matter they have between their ears is something that is completely alien to me. If we are to survive as a people, it’s going to be necessary to oust these types from our ranks and leave them to live with the people they’ve supported all these years or the ones threatening us who they deem harmless, lovable waifs. Our greatest enemies are radical leftist whites. No other people on earth represent the threat to our existence as these mindless fools.
John Liu, I think what some of your critics are trying to say is that China has no better claim to Outer Manchuria than Russia. Yes it was once a part of China’s empire, but now it’s a part of Russia’s. Mongolia also once ruled all of Central Asia, should that go back to Mongolia?
The problem with all these claims of stolen land that people around the world shout out, is that since the dawn of recorded history, human tribes have been warring with each other, stealing other peoples land, and building empires. It’s part of a continuous cycle.
We as a world need to say enough to this vicious cycle, and I believe that rather than uniting under a one world government which is what some utopians want, and blending all cultural differences and cross-breeding into one human type, we should adhere to the principles of ethnonationalism. Independence and sovereignty for every ethnic group. And that will mean countries agreeing to break up to allow independence for every ethnic group. And it order for it to work, it mean big countries like Russia, China, and yes even America will have to dissolve or let breakaway republics form peacefully.
Will it 100% rosey? No, but I think it’s the best ideal for us to pursue. For I think it’s within the human race’s interest to preserve diversity, both cultural and genetic, as much as possible.
Poland was a great power in the 18th century, before they were outnumbered and conquered by the Prussians, Austro-Hungarians, and Russians in the late 18th and 19th centuries. They have a very proud tradition and much to be proud of.
“Has our ever larger government done anything to protect us from the invasion from the south? No, but it spends trillions to invade other countries that are no threat to us. The neocons are determined to waste more trillions restarting the cold war against Russia” — WR
Indeed, you make good sense (as always) and I couldn’t agree with you more. In pointing out (albeit hesitantly) the dangers inherent in too weak a central government and appearing to criticize the states rights movement, I only wished to demonstrate what CAN happen if/when things go too far in the other direction. But you’re right: with or without a strong central government, in either case we have been left open to the vultures by those who should be protecting us.
That is because our president (like the Polish king) is dependent on our own “great nobles” for his election. He must please them or will not be president. Neo-cons, capitalists, or leftist radicals, whatever, they are in control and are running things to suit themselves, for their own benefit, regardless of the welfare of the rest of us or of the country overall.
Intriguing analogy there! Let’s hope we too don’t slide downhill and vanish off the map, as Poland did.
“The rejoinder is to say that the Mongolians of colonised Inner Mongolia, where they are now a minority compared to the Han, enjoy a higher standard of living than the Mongolians of Mongolia. Even if that’s true, it’s not the point.”
Nor do Russians want to be flooded by Western Europeans, and nor do the Basques desire to be flooded by French and Spanish.
“At least 100,000 a year were said to be arriving in the late 1990s, and when the Russian economy was growing at more than 6 percent a year from 2004 to 2008, the demand for cheap labor must have sucked in many more.”
We should be so lucky to have so few immigrants. Over a million come legally to American every year and another million illegally. Russian is in difficulty, but we are terminal.
“Already, Chinese are deeply involved in organized crime in those vast reaches were Russian military and police are stretched thin.”
Spelling correction: “were” = “where”
“Independence and sovereignty for every ethnic group. And that will mean countries agreeing to break up to allow independence for every ethnic group. And it order for it to work, it mean big countries like Russia, China, and yes even America will have to dissolve or let breakaway republics form peacefully.”
But that is asking for a reprise of recent events in the Balkans - on a massive scale.
Life is never perfect - regardless of the society you live in there will always be people or groups of people whom you perhaps dislike. But that is life. That is better than war - which will surely accompany any such proposed breakups.
Even when there were all white societies, or all yellow or all black societies - there was no less conflict than there is today in many multiracial societies - in fact more.
Europe was monoracial - but still had a 30 years war, WWI, WWII and the Holocaust.
Asia was monoracial, still is, but has seen massive conflict and bloodletting through invasions of one another etc - same goes for Africa.
Breaking up further and further does not help things - conflict will increase in fact, not decrease - because the mindset towards separation carries on indefinitely.
John Liu wrote that I(Howard) am not a bi-cultural person so I don’t understand the “vibe” going on between Russians and Chinese. You are right, I am not a bi-cultural person.I am a White man. And this response does not properly address my post. Chinese are aggressive and nasty and Russian are friendly most of the time. Being bi-cultural(whatever that is) has nothing to do wth an observation. And I doubt the Russians “dig” your “vibe” soul brother.
26 John McNeill: I think that 32 John Liu is right on this one. Independence and sovereignty for every ethnic group is a prescription for tribal warfare. Even among people racially indistinguishable, war can easily occur if there is no sense of a higher loyalty. Look at the ancient Greeks, the highland Scots, or the plains Indians. There will always be reasons for conflict, so larger political structures are needed to limit unnecessary killing. We had a pretty good one on this country for the first Four Score and Five years.
John Liu, I respectfully disagree with your belief that separation causes more conflict. In fact the opposite is true. You cite the Balkans as an example, and yet the reason why there is so much conflict in that region is precisely because various ethnic groups were forced to live in one country and live under the artificial “Yugoslavian” identity that they did not relate to. Notice now how there is less violence as the country split apart, which what was needed.
Yes, Europe was monoracial, but ethnonationalism is not race nationalism, for it recognizes differences amongst ethnic groups within races. So even if two ethnic groups are both of the same race, they will still be in conflict when they are forced together, and where one’s culture inevitably dominates the other. Look at Xianjing, the Uighurs and Han Chinese are both Mongoloid peoples, but their cultures are different enough that they will inevitably clash when they collide into each other.
Africa is another example. The countries that were created by the European powers are artificial; they have no basis in ethnic/tribal reality. Thus many of the current conflicts are due to different tribes/ethnic groups that are forced to live together in the same country and yet they have different values and customs, and want independence. One culture/ethnicity has the numerical superiority, and dominates the government, and the other tribes/ethnic groups resent that.
Ethno-nationalism recognizes the natural human desire for independence and sovereignty for their tribe, rather than denying it. Yugoslavia was a failure. Many of the artificial African countries are failures. Iraq is a failure. Afghanistan is a failure. And the US is becoming a failure precisely because the nation becomes more diverse, there is less of a common fabric that holds the nation together, thus leading to Balkanization. And no amount of flag waving or preaching of shared values will change that; in this age of global communications, it’s much easier for people to maintain contact with their original country and maintain their culture, and that is perfectly reasonable.
I see nothing wrong with Hispanics, for example, desiring to maintain their culture and sense of identity. It’s natural, and I no longer expect them to assimilate. I just want a separate nation for my people (white Americans) so that we can continue our way of life in peace.
I do not call for isolation; I believe it’s possible to maintain friendly relations with other nations through trade and commerce. I also recognize that human nature is human nature and there will always be some conflict, but I think it can be greatly reduced when every tribe of humans has their own space. And will ethnic groups divide further? Perhaps, but I don’t consider that a bad thing.
Part of the beauty of the human race is in its diversity. Diversity of peoples, diversity of cultures, diversity of language. And that is something I fear will be threatened by globalist attempts at melting our differences down through mass immigration, colonization, nation-building, and empire.
And I doubt the Russians “dig” your “vibe” soul brother.
The women certainly do though- ever visited Heilongjiang? They also dig Turks and Arabs, but Chinese men treat them a whole lot better. Just visit NE China sometime and you will see what I mean.
“And it order for it to work, it mean big countries like Russia, China, and yes even America will have to dissolve or let breakaway republics form peacefully.”
Perhaps the Russians could retreat to the West of the Urals, and North American whites back to Europe - or perhaps partition off say the North West as a white reservation.
“No other people on earth represent the threat to our existence as these mindless fools.”
I don’t know what whites are moaning about. You are probably still the second most numerous group (1.2 billion whites after East Asians (1.4 billion) but control almost half the world’s landmass. There are far more white people in the world than black people.
Yet still people here moan and moan about bumping into a few coloureds - what did you expect? If you want North America, you get North American Indians, if you want Australia you get Aborigines, Chechya Chechens. Just like us Chinese, on a few lesser scale, we get Uighurs with Xinjiang and Tibetans with Tibet.
In the end I suppose its in human nature - those in front (whites) are always worried about losing their lead, while those behind (Yellows) are desperate to catch up. Whites are fearful, Asians frustrated.
John Liu’s quotes from the playbook (White Nationalisms premises “… would be so easily dismissed) are tiresome. Only because we see them all over the net, repeated again and again in the hopes that whites can be convinced that its premises are not grounded in fact. But they are. Which is why Amren and other sites have to endure the drive by posts, filled with the same statements written in ways that the authors hope will come of as facts. But they don’t. They come of as repetitive chants. Which must come from some sort of worry or doubt, even if it isn’t consciously acknowledged or realized by the posters. The cracks are visible everywhere. Glad I have a front row seat.
John Liu, what we white nationalists are “moaning about” is the coming demise of our people. All white nations are reproducing at sub-replacement levels and are also being flooded with non-white immigration, much of which involves people who are fertile and have many children. Do the math. East Asians are also on a similar boat and that is why we hear about Mongolian, South Korean, and Japanese nationalists express concern about immigration and low birth rates.
Our premises would be so easily dismissed? You haven’t really dismissed any of it. Why not? It shouldn’t be that hard, or so you say. ;)
“John Liu, what we white nationalists are “moaning about” is the coming demise of our people. All white nations are reproducing at sub-replacement levels and are also being flooded with non-white immigration, much of which involves people who are fertile and have many children.”
Demise of white people. What demise? There are far more whites in the world than blacks. Whites as a distinct racial group are second only to East Asians - and are playing in the same ballpark - 1.2 billion whites v 1.4 billion East Asians.
Furthermore, white nations are not the only nations ethnically diverse. China has 10% non-Han (England is 10% non-white), India has a huge amount of diversity - much more so than China, and Malaysia, Singapore and other SE nations are also hugely diverse.
OK Japan and Korea is not - but then the Czech Republic and Macedonia also are not.
That is not to say that absorption of former colonial subjects, in respect of England and France, has always been trouble free - but then China had the Tibet riots last year, and 200 killed in Xinjiang earlier this year.
The white race is under no more threat than the yellow race, and is in fact in the most secure position out of all the world’s peoples - you still control most of the world’s wealth and military power. What about Polynesians, Amerinds, and Melanesians, Australian aborigines - are they also not under threat?
Whites are numerous, but the world’s landmass dominated by whites still is out of all proportion to their numbers - between 40 and 50% of the world’s landmass.
The fundamental premise of WN, is white people are in danger of extinction, that it is white nations that suffer from the purported problems of diversity.
That is just ludicrous - and easily shown to be so. WN is really just angst over the slight loss in white predominance these past 50 years. Whites who have been ahead for so long, and still are, feel any slight loss in their lead as a catastrophe.
In the U.S. Whites are a less than 50% of the population under 5 years old. Would a Chinese Nativist feel that China was not threatened if the Han were so small a proportion of the future generation? Blather about Whites current total population while ignoring the unmistakable trend of the future is dishonest. We are in fact threatened, and choosing one’s statistics does not change that fact. Of course, some non-Whites and White traitors want the White Race to fail, and so tailor their figures and arguments accordingly.
John Liu,
John Liu, I have stated the facts to you, and you continue ignore them, making me wonder if you are genuinely interested in honest debate or you are just here to cause trouble. I shall repeat myself one more time. If you are sincere, I ask you to at least acknowledge what I’m saying. I know you’re a smart guy and can comprehend what I’m about to say.
Whites are reproducing at sub-replacement levels. Get it? Raw numbers mean nothing when there aren’t enough children to sustain the population. And when you have LARGE numbers of fast-breeding immigrants, they will inevitably REPLACE the population that is shrinking and no signs show any reversal of that trend.
Do whites as a whole have more economic power than non-whites? Yes, for now. But that is more of a curse than a blessing, as whites who are experiencing economic prosperity are often focused on the advancement of the self, and pay little heed to the group. Thus many whites do not think of having children, or just 1, which will still lead to population shrinkage. I, and many other white nationalists care little for the economic prosperity, I’d rather we lost it.
In the end economic and military power means nothing if there are no children to continue the ethnic group. That’s a fact. I’m curious to see how you are going to refute this.
And please do not rehash any more claims about how many whites exist in the world. As I said, if they are not reproducing, and are getting replaced by foreign immigrants, then it means nothing.
“Prior to 1948 there was NO substantial non-White presence on British soil, a state of affairs that existed, in fact, since that land was first uncovered by the glacial ice sheets of the last ice age.”
Cry me a river. What did you expect? The backwash of empire - an empire from which Britain gained so much.
Were there whites in North and South America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa earlier than several centuries ago? White have been doing a fair bit of displacing of other peoples themselves. Native Americans I believe are now only 2% of North America’s population, Australian Aborgines about 1% of Australia’s population.
As for the group that people here seem to dislike the most - American blacks - they were forcibly brought here. The average African American, has been here for a greater number of generations (his forebears) than the average white American.
So don’t moan about, at least 13% of your population - if you consider them a blight (an absolutely racist proposition to be sure - but that is what the majority of posters here believe), then it is a self-inflicted one, a situation that requires you both morally and practically to either accept as it currently is or work to improve.
In the end economic and military power means nothing if there are no children to continue the ethnic group.
But the American ethnic group, your ethnic group is is multi-racial - a continent populated by Asiatics, invaded by whites, who brought along their black slaves. So regardless of the purported respective contributions of the various groups, your ethnic composition is uniquely American. This is unlike the case for ‘old countries’ such as Japan, Italy, Greece, etc.
I get a laugh out of how many people here criticize non-whites for being hyphenated Americans, or supporting Mexico over America etc. But white nationalists are the worse - they will not even acknowledge 30% of their own countrymen as their own countrymen. And most here would put a white Lithuanian over an American black.
“I, and many other white nationalists care little for the economic prosperity, I’d rather we lost it.”
Well perhaps white nationalists then should support Obama’s agenda of wealth redistribution - from rich to poor, or from mainly white people to mainly non-white people.
“Whites are reproducing at sub-replacement levels. Get it? Raw numbers mean nothing when there aren’t enough children to sustain the population. And when you have LARGE numbers of fast-breeding immigrants, they will inevitably REPLACE the population that is shrinking and no signs show any reversal of that trend.”
Extrapolating current trends to 50 years in the future hardly ever provides an accurate prediction. China also has minority groups which reproduce faster than Han Chinese. Only Han are restricted by the one-child policy. Yet we don’t moan about that. After all we are 90% of the population.
Any group in fact could selectively draw on statistics to show that they are in demographic danger in some way. Whites though, by and large are more secure as a group than any other.
Put yourselves in the shoes of a black man, or a Hispanic. Would you swap their current demographic situation for your own current one?
John Liu, the American identity was never meant to be a multi-racial one. For centuries it was a white, European identity. Only in the last few decades did the establishment try to make the American identity a universal concept. You also seem to confuse nationality and ethnicity. Ethnically I’m a white American, while civically I am an “American”. But “American” does not mean much as I’ve come to understand that anyone who moves here and has children is essentially an “American”; the illegal immigration problem has shown me that flaw in civic nationalism. Which is why I believe in ethno-nationalism.
Again you confuse us white nationalists with civic nationalists. Civic nationalists, like much of contemporary conservative America, believe identities being based on abstractions and not heritage, and thus demand that non-whites assimilate. Us white nationalists understand that is not the case, that you cannot assimilate the world’s excess population that wants to come here. Thus we don’t mind when non-whites engage in identity politics, it’s natural to us. We just want to be able to engage in our own identity politics without being demonized. Granted, there’s a lot of problems with the American white nationalist scene that needs to be fixed.
And I like how you said “cry me a river” in response to Britain being demographically transformed. Do you think that Britain has to be transformed as “punishment” for empire?
And there is no need for wealth redistribution. Much of the financial system and economic prosperity is falling apart anyway.
And once again, you have failed to refute the demographic trends. These are not just 50 year extrapolations. These are current events that are happening NOW. Whites have been failing to reproduce at replacement levels for at least a couple of decades, and there is no sign of that reversing. And on top of that, high levels of immigration are REPLACING the native population. Look at London, where half the births are to foreigners. When will this stop?
And don’t prattle onwards about Aboriginals or American Indians. What happened in the past sucked, I don’t deny that. But just because there were demographic replacements that happened in the past does NOT justify any future ones. Especially in Europe. Many whites living in Europe were good whites who didn’t settle in other peoples lands. They do not deserve to be wiped out.
If you deem us white Americans worthy of extinction because of what happened to the American Indians, then fine, but I do not accept that, nor do my kinsmen. Sorry. I have no control over what happened, nor can I go back in time and change things. But I can do my part to set things right. I believe American Indian tribes need to declare independence from the US. I also think Blacks should have their own nation within America. I do not consider them a blight, but rather I feel they need their own homeland. Same for Hispanics, which is why I no longer fret about illegal immigration. Illegal immigration helps accelerate the fall of the US anyway, which needs to happen.
I don’t know what whites are moaning about. You are probably still the second most numerous group (1.2 billion whites after East Asians (1.4 billion) but control almost half the world’s landmass. There are far more white people in the world than black people
East Asian is equivalent to Caucasoid. There are 1.5 billion East Asians and perhaps 1.8 billion to 2 billion Caucasoids. Whites alone are half of this.
we get Uighurs with Xinjiang
The Uighurs are not native to Xinjiang. The Qiang, Huns and Kets were the first there- then came the Tocharians (who absorbed them), then the Han, followed by the (real) Uighurs who absorbed the Tocharians. Real Uighurs were 89% Northeast Asians, the ones today are Uzbeks who came in during the 1860s, committed mass murder against the Chinese, Mongols and Tungus there, and settled en masse.
Don’t be confused by the mass media nonsense.
“Many whites living in Europe were good whites who didn’t settle in other peoples lands.”
Actually I agree with you. I also would not want historic nations of Europe to be wiped out. I like to travel. I have not travelled before to Europe, but hope to in the near future - and would like to visit an Italy that is an Italy, a Greece that is a Greece, and a Germany that is a Germany. I have no quarrel with you here.
But these countries all along recognize a connection to a nation is by blood. They do that now. Until recently a German born in the Ukrain or Russia (some of the latter Volga Germans) I believe, was recognized as German. Italian descended people in South America can claim Italian citizenship on documented proof of their roots. Many European countries have practiced Jus Sanguinis all along. And they are not accused of being racist. Because they are not. One is an Italian (mostly) on account of descent, on account of who your ancestors are. Is that not what you mean when you talk of ethno-nationalism? But you have it already.
But the case of Britain is a bit different, on account of not only the imperial history of Britain, but also the untold millions of British derived people distributed across the globe today. The greatest diaspora populations in the world today are those of British descent, who probably outnumber the British on Britain by about four or five to one.
Piteous bleating ‘its not fair’ just does not cut it. So on the one hand, I don’t feel sorry for the Brits. And they are getting what they deserve.
But on the other hand, looking to the future (or even the present), one may ask objectively is immigration good for indigenous British. And I would tentatively agree that it has presented some seemingly untractable problems - not least the presence of a large population with an enemy ideology - Islam. So British concern about non-indigenous people in their midst is understandable. But not the self-righteous bleating.
In other words, do what you have to do - because its in your interests and is natural. But you cannot then claim the high ground when it comes to fair play, reciprococity, and general morality. That is, you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
John Liu,
John Liu, I wish you were correct that the nations of Europe recognize connections by blood, but in actuality they are also countries that have made their identities civic. As in, anyway can move in and be “German” or “Dutch” or “French”. And the fruits of such ideology are bearing fruit, such as growing non-indigenous populations within each of these countries. Even countries that never involved themselves in imperialism or colonialism such as Ireland and the Czech Republic are affected by immigration from peoples that breed at much higher rates than the low breeding natives. And this is all actively encouraged by the governments. The governments of Europe have elected a new people.
And I find it strange that you say the Brits are getting what they deserve. Why? The Brits living around the world such as those living in America, Australia, and New Zealand who are descended from the colonialists have lost contact with Britain. And those British living in their ancestral home stayed in their own country and had no control over where settlers went. The indigenous British who live in their own country are no more deserving of demographic displacement than any other ethnic group. Really no ethnic group is. We need to just stop the cycle of conquest and displacement and learn to actually co-exist peacefully. Not going to be easy, but that’s the ideal we should strive for, rather than saying “Hey, some of your relatives did naughty things, you all deserve to be subjected to mass immigration and demographic displacement.”
DPNI’s “March Against the Invaders.”