Your Fate? Thank Your Ancestors

Gregory Clark, New York Times, February 21, 2014

Inequality of income and wealth has risen in America since the 1970s, yet a large-scale research study recently found that social mobility hadn’t changed much during that time. How can that be?

The study, by researchers at Harvard and Berkeley, tells only part of the story. It may be true that mobility hasn’t slowed—but, more to the point, mobility has always been slow.

When you look across centuries, and at social status broadly measured—not just income and wealth, but also occupation, education and longevity—social mobility is much slower than many of us believe, or want to believe. This is true in Sweden, a social welfare state; England, where industrial capitalism was born; the United States, one of the most heterogeneous societies in history; and India, a fairly new democracy hobbled by the legacy of caste. Capitalism has not led to pervasive, rapid mobility. Nor have democratization, mass public education, the decline of nepotism, redistributive taxation, the emancipation of women, or even, as in China, socialist revolution.

To a striking extent, your overall life chances can be predicted not just from your parents’ status but also from your great-great-great-grandparents’. The recent study suggests that 10 percent of variation in income can be predicted based on your parents’ earnings. In contrast, my colleagues and I estimate that 50 to 60 percent of variation in overall status is determined by your lineage. The fortunes of high-status families inexorably fall, and those of low-status families rise, toward the average—what social scientists call “regression to the mean”—but the process can take 10 to 15 generations (300 to 450 years), much longer than most social scientists have estimated in the past.

We came to these conclusions after examining reams of data on surnames, a surprisingly strong indicator of social status, in eight countries—Chile, China, England, India, Japan, South Korea, Sweden and the United States—going back centuries. Across all of them, rare or distinctive surnames associated with elite families many generations ago are still disproportionately represented among today’s elites.

Does this imply that individuals have no control over their life outcomes? No. In modern meritocratic societies, success still depends on individual effort. Our findings suggest, however, that the compulsion to strive, the talent to prosper and the ability to overcome failure are strongly inherited. We can’t know for certain what the mechanism of that inheritance is, though we know that genetics plays a surprisingly strong role. Alternative explanations that are in vogue—cultural traits, family economic resources, social networks—don’t hold up to scrutiny.

{snip}

Let’s start with Sweden, which—like Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Norway—is one of the world’s most equal societies in terms of income. To our surprise, we found that social mobility in Sweden today was no greater than in Britain or the United States today—or even Sweden in the 18th century.

Sweden still has a nobility. Those nobles no longer hold de facto political power, but their family records are stored by the Riddarhuset (House of Nobility), a society created in 1626. We estimate that about 56,000 Swedes hold rare surnames associated with the three historic tiers of nobles. (Variations on the names of the unfortunate Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of “Hamlet” are on the list.)

Another elite group are Swedes whose ancestors—a rising educated class of clerics, scholars, merchants—Latinized their surnames in the 17th and 18th centuries (like the father of the botanist Carolus Linnaeus). Adopting elite names was limited by law in Sweden in 1901, so a vast majority of people holding them are descended from prominent families.

Given the egalitarian nature of Swedish society, one would expect that people with these elite surnames should be no better off than other Swedes. That isn’t so. In a sample of six Stockholm-area municipalities in 2008, rich and poor, we found that the average taxable income of people with noble names was 44 percent higher than that of people with the common surname Andersson. Those with Latinized names had average taxable incomes 27 percent higher than those named Andersson.

Surnames of titled nobles (counts and barons) are represented in the register of the Swedish Bar Association at six times the rate they occur in the general population (three times the rate, for untitled-noble and Latinized surnames). The same goes for Swedish doctors. Among those who completed master’s theses at Uppsala University from 2000 to 2012, Swedes with elite surnames were overrepresented by 60 to 80 percent compared with those with the common surname prefixes Lund- and Berg-.

Over centuries, there is movement toward the mean, but it is slow. In three of the Royal Academies of Sweden, half of the members from 1740 to 1769 held one of the elite surnames in our sample; by 2010, only 4 percent did—but these surnames were held by just 0.7 percent of all Swedes, so they were still strongly overrepresented. In short, nearly 100 years of social democratic policies in Sweden, while creating a very egalitarian society, have failed to accelerate social mobility.

{snip}

We found that late medieval England was no less mobile than modern England—contrary to the common assumption of a static feudal order. It took just seven generations for the successful descendants of illiterate village artisans of 1300 to be incorporated fully into the educated elite of 1500—that is, the frequency of their names in the Oxbridge rolls reached the level around where it is today. By 1620, according to probate records, people with names like Butcher and Baker had nearly as much wealth as people with high-status surnames like Rochester and Radcliffe.

{snip}

In any generation, happy accidents (including extraordinary talent) will produce new high-status families. It is impossible to predict which particular families are likely to experience such boosts. What is predictable is what the path to elite status will look like, and the path back to the mean. Both happen at a very slow pace.

For all the creative destruction unleashed by capitalism, the industrial revolution did not accelerate mobility. Looking at 181 rare surnames held by the wealthiest 15 percent of English and Welsh people in the mid-19th century—to be clear, these were not the same elite surnames as in the medieval era—we found that people with these surnames who died between 1999 and 2012 were more than three times as wealthy as the average person.

If your surname is rare, and someone with that surname attended Oxford or Cambridge around 1800, your odds of being enrolled at those universities are nearly four times greater than the average person. This slowness of mobility has persisted despite a vast expansion in public financing for secondary and university education, and the adoption of much more open and meritocratic admissions at both schools.

What about America, the self-proclaimed land of opportunity?

We selected a sampling of high- and low-status American surnames. The elite ones were held by descendants of Ivy League alumni who graduated by 1850, exceptionally wealthy people with rare surnames in 1923-24 (when public inspection of income-tax payments was legal) and Ashkenazi Jews. The low-status names were associated with black Americans whose ancestors most likely arrived as slaves, and the descendants of French colonists in North America before 1763.

We chose only surnames closely correlated with these subgroups—for example, Rabinowitz for American Jews, and Washington for black Americans.

We used two indicators of social status: the American Medical Association’s directory of physicians and registries of licensed attorneys, along with their dates of registration, in 25 states, covering 74 percent of the population.

In the early to mid-20th century we found the expected regression toward the mean for all of these groups, except for Jews and blacks — which reflects the reality of quotas that had barred Jews from many elite schools, and of racial segregation, which was not fully outlawed until the 1960s.

Starting in the 1970s, Jews began, over all, a decline in social status, while blacks began a corresponding rise, at least as measured by the doctors’ directory. But both trends are very slow. At the current rate, for example, it will be 300 years before Ashkenazi Jews cease to be overrepresented among American doctors, and even 200 years from now the descendants of enslaved African-Americans will still be underrepresented.

Family names tell you, for better or worse, a lot: The average life span of an American with the typically Jewish surname Katz is 80.2 years, compared with 64.6 years for those with the surname Begay (or Begaye), which is strongly associated with Native Americans. Heberts, whites of New France descent, live on average three years less than Dohertys, whites of Irish descent.

But to be clear, we found no evidence that certain racial groups innately did better than others. Very high-status groups in America include Ashkenazi Jews, Egyptian Copts, Iranian Muslims, Indian Hindus and Christians, and West Africans. The descendants of French Canadian settlers don’t suffer racial discrimination, but their upward mobility, like that of blacks, has been slow.

{snip}

Our findings were replicated in Chile, India, Japan, South Korea and, surprisingly, China, which stands out as a demonstration of the resilience of status—even after a Communist revolution nearly unparalleled in its ferocity, class hatred and mass displacement.

Hundreds of thousands of relatively prosperous mainland Chinese fled to Taiwan with the Nationalists in the late 1940s. Under Communist agrarian reform, as much as 43 percent of all land was seized and redistributed. The Cultural Revolution of 1966-76 saw purges of scholars and other former elites and “class enemies.”

In China, there are only about 4,000 surnames; the 100 most common are held by nearly 85 percent of the population. Yet we were able to identify 13 rare surnames that were exceptionally overrepresented among successful candidates in imperial examinations in the 19th century. Remarkably, holders of these 13 surnames are disproportionately found now among professors and students at elite universities, government officials, and heads of corporate boards. Social mobility in the Communist era has accelerated, but by very little. Mao failed.

These findings may surprise two groups that are often politically opposed: those who believe that certain “cultures” are higher-achieving than others and those who attribute success to family resources and social networks.

Culture is a nebulous category and it can’t explain the constant regression of family status—from the top and the bottom. High-status social groups in America are astonishingly diverse. There are representatives from nearly every major religious and ethnic group in the world—except for the group that led to the argument for culture as the foundation of social success: white European Protestants. Muslims are low-status in much of India and Europe, but Iranian Muslims are among the most elite of all groups in America.

Family resources and social networks are not irrelevant. Evidence has been found that programs from early childhood education to socioeconomic and racial classroom integration can yield lasting benefits for poor children. But the potential of such programs to alter the overall rate of social mobility in any major way is low. The societies that invest the most in helping disadvantaged children, like the Nordic countries, have produced absolute, commendable benefits for these children, but they have not changed their relative social position.

The notion of genetic transmission of “social competence”—some mysterious mix of drive and ability—may unsettle us. But studies of adoption, in some ways the most dramatic of social interventions, support this view. A number of studies of adopted children in the United States and Nordic countries show convincingly that their life chances are more strongly predicted from their biological parents than their adoptive families. In America, for example, the I.Q. of adopted children correlates with their adoptive parents’ when they are young, but the correlation is close to zero by adulthood. There is a low correlation between the incomes and educational attainment of adopted children and those of their adoptive parents.

These studies, along with studies of correlations across various types of siblings (identical twins, fraternal twins, half siblings) suggest that genetics is the main carrier of social status.

{snip}

Our findings do suggest that intermarriage among people of different strata will raise mobility over time. India, we found, has exceptionally low mobility in part because religion and caste have barred intermarriage. As long as mating is assortative—partners are of similar social status, regardless of ethnic, national or religious background—social mobility will remain low.

{snip}

Large-scale, rapid social mobility is impossible to legislate. What governments can do is ameliorate the effects of life’s inherent unfairness. Where we will fall within the social spectrum is largely fated at birth. Given that fact, we have to decide how much reward, or punishment, should be attached to what is ultimately fickle and arbitrary, the lottery of your lineage.

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  • http://saboteur365.wordpress.com/ bigone4u

    As a youngster I was taught the myth that every boy can grow up to be president. My students, when I was at the university, believed that they could be whatever they wanted to be, no matter what. The reality laid out in this article punctures the myths that everyone wants to believe.

    • JustJeff

      I wonder if this article is going to rile up our leftist friends. It’s not hard to see the “racist” implications.

      • RisingReich

        Love your avatar.

        • JohnEngelman

          I don’t. It reminds me of the Third Reich.

      • Brian

        It will just make them more smug, if that’s possible, about the ‘dire need’ for more of their social programs and propaganda to ‘correct’ the deficiencies of nature.

    • itdoesnotmatter

      the article suggests that the black baby fad is going to backfire on the white libtards who adopted one of these creatures.

      Not if the adoptees are from West Africa. Unbelievably, this article places West Africans among the elite.

    • Jesse_from_Sweden

      But it fails to take Affirmative Action into the equation.

      Which
      essentially creates an artificial “elite” due to government preference
      that isn’t directly linked to the individuals actual accomplishments in
      relation to individuals from other groups.

      It also fails to
      take inot consideration that there are a limited amount of “slots”
      available in elite universities and such, and that if one group is
      favored beyond their actual ability, that means another group will be
      disfavored.
      And whioch is the only group in the western world that
      you can actively and openly discriminate against with government
      policies and racial quotas?

      The great problem lies in
      how you count the groups. Jews tend to be a part of the white group when
      it favors them and separate when it doesn’t.

      So when the black
      quota increases in a university, that means the white quota must
      decrease. But you can’t single out jews of course, despite them being
      overrepresented, instead you have to go after non-jewish whites.

      Why are there no white protestants in the supreme court?

      Probably because there are 1 black, 1 “wise latina” and 4 catholics, leaving only 3 slots left taken up by jews.

      If
      you split it into blocks, by left and right (since they are appointed
      by politicians which are split into two parties) then we have 4
      catholics allied with the “right”, 1 black and 1 “wise latina” who are
      both catholics but also minorities and are a sort of compromise (but
      probably appointed from the “left”) and then 3 lefties. Which are then
      taken up by jews, which essentially kicks out protestants.

      So
      the liberal left, which tends to be protestants, suffer from the
      political divide which causes their quota of elites to be overwhelmingly
      jewish, which can’t be singled out if it is negative for them (only
      when they benefit from it are they a separate group) while the
      conservative right tends to be catholic and therefore is the elite
      catholic.

      But are really WASPs that badly off overall? Just because they aren’t in the top elite which is what he counts in this article?
      I doubt it. They have just made some bad political alliances, and they are the ones that suffer the most for the racial and political quotas in elite groups that are limited by a number rather than by skill level.
      If one group gains from affirmative action and quotas, it naturally also results in another group being hurt by it. And it isn’t related to individual skill.

    • Erasmus

      Yet, all the evidence in the world that blacks and Mexicans will be limited by their genes is never going to stop the libtards from throwing away hundreds of billions (trillions?) more trying to turn people whom mother nature has fit to be gardeners or head dishwashers into nuclear physicists or rocket scientists.

    • SFLBIB

      Re: Euro Protestants

      About 40 years ago, a co-worker brought an article to work about the various religious groups and their average incomes in broad terms. The religious group with the highest AVERAGE individual income was the Jews. No surprise here. Next came the Catholics. Low man on the totem pole was the Protestants. This was a surprise because Protestantism is the host religion of the U.S. The article broke the Protestants down further. Episcopaleans were the highest of the group; the lowest of the low were the Southern Baptists, of which my co-worker friend was one. He had one of the highest incomes in our office, so he was a kind of wild data point.

      • antiquesunlight

        Yeah, this thing about Protestants is very hard for me to believe. I grew up Baptist, and the people I went to church with weren’t poor by any means. Most of them were solidly middle class.
        Most blacks are Protestant, though. That is probably dragging them down a lot. I bet once all the Catholic HIspanics are counted, Catholics will drop a bit, too.

        • SFLBIB

          I put AVERAGE in all caps to emphasize that it was a group average. In any population, there will be those above and those who are below average. Your congregation was just one that had a lot above average, undoubtedly due to their concentration in your area. I believe the article addressed the fact that most blacks are Protestant. I would bet most of them are Southern Baptists, the lowest income group of all. I also recall that Hispanics had been counted in the survey.

          • antiquesunlight

            But there weren’t nearly as many Hispanics in America 40 years ago as there are now. There’s no way they wouldn’t drag the average down at least a little.
            But my congregation was not exceptional. It was quite typical of white Southern Baptist churches.
            More than likely, if you didn’t count blacks, the average for Protestants would go up significantly.
            Additionally, the South is very, very religious (especially pre-Millennials) and almost exclusively Protestant from the low class to the high class. I doubt most of the other religions have that same huge kind of representation in America.
            And on top of all that, wages in the South tend to be lower than in the North and all, because cost of living is lower. That’s true now, and it was probably true 40 years ago. So hopefully they adjusted the numbers to account for that. If they didn’t, it was surely quite skewed against Southern Baptists.
            So I tend to take those kinds of reports with a grain of salt.

          • SFLBIB

            “But there weren’t nearly as many Hispanics in America 40 years ago as there are now. There’s no way they wouldn’t drag the average down at least a little.”

            The number in each group didn’t matter in this study.

          • antiquesunlight

            Huh? How does the number not matter? If you have more poor people in a group, the average income will certainly go down. There’s no way for this not to be highly relevant. The whole point of the study is to gage income of a group, so adding a large number of low income people into Catholicism would lower the average. Inversely, subtracting blacks and poor whites from Protestants would hugely increase the average.

          • SFLBIB

            I see what you are saying.

    • Jon

      WE will see how far they slide back down once our country collapses.

  • MekongDelta69

    Let’s try this once again, Mr. New York Slimes:

    IQIQIQIQIQ

    • Romulus

      Change the J to an N.

    • Oil Can Harry

      Excuse me, but intelligence is a social construct and IQ tests are hopelessly biased against communities of color and in favor of those carrying the invisible knapsack of white skin privilege.

      Since this imaginary concept called intelligence can’t be accurately measured we must assume that not only are all races equally smart but so are all individuals.

      • Epiminondas

        Yea. That would explain equatorial Africa’s situation, wouldn’t it?

        • Fr. John+

          What drugs is Harry on?

  • Luca

    As I have said before there is no such thing as equality in nature. Nature has equipped us with a game plan called “survival of the fittest.”

    Those families who have high IQ’s, are hard workers, frugal, and are nurturing parents are going to pass down those qualities to their offspring through heredity and life lessons.

    Those people with low IQ, who are lazy, spend foolishly, and ignore their child rearing responsibilities are going to perpetuate these dysfunctional traits down through the generations.

    No mystery at all.

  • John R

    Hey, the best thing that your parents can leave you is good genes. (I said “genes” people, not “jeans” don’t get smart!) You inherit things like good health, high intelligence, and, quite possibly, some personality traits, that can lead to success in life. Another reason why parents-mainly White ones-have to be very careful about who marries their daughter.

  • Daniel Schmuhl

    The more meritocratic you try and make things, the more you create a caste system. High IQ people tend to marry other high IQ people when the environment allows it. The liberal obsession with anyone becoming whatever they want is nothing but fantasy.

  • http://countenance.wordpress.com/ Question Diversity

    The rise of black physicians starting in the 1970s is entirely a product of affirmative action.

    Overall, the moral of this story, is that income inequality is, like death, taxes, hot summers, cold winters and wet liquid water, something we will always have with us. A politician who makes income inequality a political issue in the sense that it can be gotten rid of is therefore trying to pull a fast one over on you. Of course, those same politicians usually wind up making income inequality worse.

    • John Ambrose

      In reference to your final two sentences, its sounds like your describing Lyndon Baines Johnson.

      • http://countenance.wordpress.com/ Question Diversity

        I was thinking more like Barack Hussein Obama II, but hey, LBJ fits the bill, too.

    • Oil Can Harry

      Those liberal pols are trying to reduce the income equality between themselves and billionaires.

      • WR_the_realist

        A lot of the liberals are billionaires. In the United States the millionaires are Republicans, the billionaires are Democrats, and there is no party that represents the middle class.

        • bear grylls

          Yes and liberal billionaires actively discriminate against white people.And they got rich from white people.

  • JustJeff

    Science: proving what people intuitively grasped thousands of years ago.

    • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

      Yes, until a Middle Eastern religion came along and made real knowledge a sin punishable by death.

      • John R

        You also should note that the rise of racism in Europe reached it’s peak in the late nineteenth to early twentieth centuries. This was precisely the time when science was unlocking the mysteries of the world-when we were moving from the horse and buggy age to the age of flight. Thus racism did not arise from ignorance-quite the opposite. Science is our ally, not our enemy.

  • Malgus

    “The fortunes of high-status families inexorably fall, and those of
    low-status families rise, toward the average—what social scientists call
    “regression to the mean”—but the process can take 10 to 15 generations..”

    Sometimes faster.

    Ours is one of those families that went from riches to rags and then sort of bounced back… sort of threadbare aristocracy. But each generations builds on the previous…

    • http://countenance.wordpress.com/ Question Diversity

      Have you ever heard the phrase, “sandals to sandals in three generations?”

      • Malgus

        The version I heard was “shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves” but it’s pretty much the same thing…

        I do what I do – bought some land and work it, put together a pretty good library, reclaimed an old pasture gone to weeds and planted an orchard, etc – for future generations, not myself.

        Same thing with other possessions, like weapons, tools, etc.. all will eventually go to my son. What that means is that HE won’t have to invest the resources that I have on basics and can use his own resources towards other things, like raising his own family and/or expanding our holdings…

        We cannot concentrate on “me, mine” anymore… we have to start living for future generations..

        • Petronius

          “We old fellows need to know this, for we all plant olive orchards for others to enjoy.” – Seneca “Scipio’s Villa”

        • J.T. Thrasher

          Malgus! Good to see you here. Are you going to the conference?

          • Malgus

            J.T.

            Good to be here. Thanks.

            I do not know if I will be able to attend. I do want to attend, and Nashville is within driving distance for me, but we’ve got a lot of irons in the fire. We own a farm and there needs to be someone here 24/7 to make sure everything runs smoothly.

            If I can arrange for someone to keep an eye on the place, then I’ll be good to hook.

            I’ll let you know one way or the other…

            Hey, will an AmRen conference be held in Kentucky?

      • rightrightright

        Clogs to clogs in three generations.

      • http://nclinksandthinks.wordpress.com/ Roger U

        Flip flops to flip flops in three generations.

    • Sick of it

      Ours has bounced back a little, but being abandoned and left to your own devices is a pretty bad way for one to get anywhere in life. Unless one lives like a criminal, of course.

      • Malgus

        I hear ya.

        Great grand-daddy owned a few bookbinding factories. He was also published and popular with the German community here stateside and also back in Germany. Post-war, he passed on and instead of my grandfather assuming control and ownership, my great uncle took over. He promptly ran the company into the ground, sold it for a fraction of what it was worth and then wasted that… so, we were back to nothing.

        Today, the bookbindery itself (the one stateside) is long gone, the formerly prosperous area overrun with Bongonians… it is as if it never was…

        But, you can’t mourn such things. The only thing that matters is sticking your thumb in the eye of Fate and driving on…

        • Sick of it

          Good advice for anyone.

  • JSS

    I thought the great prize that is western civilization was the product of da slabery, colonialism, and white privilege. Now the esteemed N.Y. times is saying we are living off what our ancestors built for us basically. Maybe we should emulate them then?

    • me

      Despite the deliberate ‘dumbing down’ by the ‘educational system’, so that Blacks ‘feelings’ aren’t hurt, and the illusion that the Blacks can ‘keep up’ with Whites in our public schools, our children are doing okay. Despite the deliberate ‘globalization’ of the economy, the death of our production industries, and China’s willingness to offer their populace as ‘slave labor’ to the soulless corporations, we’re still hanging in there. Despite our burdensome taxation and redistribution of wealth, the constant use of ‘affirmative action’ to displace qualified White workers with unqualified Brown and Black workers, and the high unemployment rates for White males, we are still surviving and thriving in our various communities. Despite the ‘Negro-mania’ of our government and our media, the importation of the ‘unwashed hordes’ that hate and covet Whites for who we are, what we have, and what we have built, and our White races’ damnation as the ‘post-modern’ scapegoat for all of societies’ ills, White people are still here. Our children are still ‘coping’ with the deliberate onslaught of anti-White propaganda and discrimination because of their so-called ‘privilege’ of being White, which immediately has to stop. Despite the attacks on the family, on motherhood, on religion, on morality, and on the rule of law, we abide. Now, it’s time to put an end to this failed social ‘experiment’ known as ‘diversity’ and take our country–and our children’s future–back. Either that, or secession!

  • Alexandra1973

    I did have royal ancestors…as far as I know I’m descended from at least two children of Edward III.

    But my closer ancestors were farmers, back in the 19th century. I looked up the census records (and forget about the 1890 census, just about all of it was destroyed in a fire or something).

    They were probably your average Joes back then.

    • Katherine McChesney

      My ancestor was the original Sheriff of Waterford in Ireland and we descend from the Powers family that built Powerscourt, the site where Jesuits wrote the heretical “Secret Rapture”. I also descend from the Smithson family in England. I am also of the Buchanan clan (the Watsons) in Scotland.

      I suppose this makes me a mutt.

      • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

        How would that make you a mutt? Especially in the modern meaning? Most American whites are a mix of Northern European/Eastern Europe nationalities. It might have once meant something, but it sure doesn’t now. And besides noble families often married into other foreign noble families.

        A long time older friend of mine was the Viscount O’Brien, a first cousin to JFK. He told me something of the family history. During the protestant takeover and exile, the O’Brien nobles took refuge in St. Petersburg under the protection of Catherine the Great for whom they rendered valuable enough military service to be awarded the additional title of “Prince of Russia.” He didn’t say anything about marriages in those times, but it seems likely that the O’Briens picked up some non-Irish blood. When you think about things like this, it changes some definitions of nationality and history seems to support the idea.

        And to both of you; The Black Plague constitutes a bottle neck genealogically speaking. Many of European ancestry have noble backgrounds. (I am directly descended from a knight that is listed on the Falaise Roll (companions of William the Conqueror at Hastings) and others such as Robert “King” Carter (of the Shirely Plantation) and subsequently Robert E. Lee). One effect of the Plague was that it killed off a high number of peasants, who typically lived in more crowded and unsanitary concentrations. This forced many nobles to farm their own lands and made others landless. So my ancestors in New France and New England in the 17th and 18th century were farmers too (also fur traders).

    • Sick of it

      So far I’ve found that two of my families were descended from Edward III and belonged to the original Norman nobility (those who took England with William the Conqueror). Pretty sure my German forebears were from the nobility as well.

      Starting from my family’s arrival in America, we’ve been planters, soldiers, merchants, lawyers (including a State Supreme Court judge who helped develop the Illinois educational system before the Civil War), teachers, miners, sharecroppers, mechanics, government workers, etc.

      As my families have turned away from the land, we’ve become more poor over time. Those in power realize the true value of land and always own it.

      • BonV.Vant

        Almost everyone can trace their ancestry back to a noble. Nobles had many mistresses and many illegitimate children. Another factor is that only the first three legitimate male sons inherited land and a title, at least in England. Any sons after that inherited nothing unless an older brother died.

        • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

          You’re first statement is right, but not for the reasons you say. The Black Plague creates a bottle neck genealogically speaking. More peasants died than anyone else and many nobles had to make livings for themselves by either working their own land or paying others more to do it (labor shortage followed). I have been involved in genealogical research for years and this is one thing that one learns when tracing European lines. It is not true for “everyone” meaning only true for Western Europeans.

          • BonV.Vant

            “More peasants died than anyone else”. Well, since there were magnitudes more peasants than nobility, yes, that would be the case. All classes were affected though. This does not explain though why nobility would breed with non nobility. Even if they had to work the land or hire people to do it , they did not lose their noble status. The ones that did though were the ones who were not included in the inheritance, and there were scores more of those than there were legitimate heirs, for the two reason I mentioned.

        • Sick of it

          I was obviously talking about legitimate children.

      • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

        If you have an ancestor that was with William the Conqueror at the Battle of Hastings, that person will be listed on the Falaise Roll. You can buy a copy of the genealogical work by that name fairly easy. To be sure it is not a borrowed name, you need to trace your lineage back at least to the 14th century, in records.

        If you can do that, then we’re related.

        Many nobles lost their land after the Black Plague because of the economic depression that followed. Others had to work the land themselves or hire others to do it, etc. But it resulted in many not inheriting anything.

  • Romulus

    First and foremost , any surname beginning in ROSEN IS JEWISH NOT SWEDISH.
    It doesnt make a da*n bit of difference where the name appears. Secondly, just as we should have expected ( even after our discussion of the tribe last night) the jews have ALWAYS been OVERREPRESENTED in wealthy elites across history no matter where they live.
    As it concerns blacks, even when they werent slaves, theyve never achieved squat, excepting mud hut squalor in the dark continent.
    P.s. Here’s a little fun fact: ROOSEVELT IS DUTCH FOR ROSENFELD/FIELD!!!!!

    • Sick of it

      People without morality can easily rise to the top, as nothing bars them from doing whatever it takes to get ahead. Not exactly something to inspire admiration so much as disgust.

      • Romulus

        In my earlier comment, I pointed out the etymology of those two surnames to illustrate a point on the migrations northward of the non Europeans. You may have previously read my comments alluding to the “change” in the Swedes as evidenced by the portrait wall in the Swedish museum in Philadelphia. I also highly recommend copies of the Atlas of Christianity and The Atlas of Judaism. When we connect the dots it shows the timeline of the transition of Europe.
        Example: Abba is a Swedish? Pop band? Abba is Hebrew word for father. So is the band Swedish with a Hebrew name or Hebrews claiming to be Swedish?
        Nevertheless, when certain aspects of the Swedes exhibit these kinds of cultural markers, is when you can see the influence of the tribe.

        • BonV.Vant

          ABBA is an acronym of the first letters of the band members’ first names (Agnetha, Benny, Björn and Anni-Frid)

          • Romulus

            Yes, that is also true. Another contraction from the words origin( despite the bands use of it as an acronym) is BAR-Abba which in Hebrew means son of the father ( Barabbas)

          • BonV.Vant

            it is just a coincidence

          • BonV.Vant

            coincidence

          • Romulus

            That may well be and thank you for pointing that out. My replies needed further explanation.
            Please see my reply to white plight sees the empire N on this thread.
            Eastern meditteraneans poured into Europe after the fall of Rome and miscegenated their genes into the native populace. Now, of course, since the industrial slaughter of the indigenous Teutons resulted in a loss, they do not have the privilege of writing history or defending their own people.
            The last wave of haji and blacks pouring into their lands may be the final nail in the coffin if the indigenous peoples do not work to recapture their cultural memory and their true origins.
            That is the overarching theme of my European commentary.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            If you’re trying to say that the band ABBA is Jewish or their name is Hebrew, you’ve failed. Bar-abba is done by you adding BAR out of the air. Lots of names and “clues” can be created that way, but they don’t mean anything.

          • BonV.Vant

            The “bar” is not part of the word “father”, I think it means “of” or “From”.

          • Romulus

            Pardon my explanation. Let me clarify. Albeit, the name of the band is an acronym and coincidental ,my description of the ORIGIN of the word is 100% accurate.
            It is a recurring theme in my commentary to demonstrate a particular influence in the barbarians lands after the fall of Rome.
            My reasoning is to illustrate how the divisions amongst the native peoples of Europe occurred and secondly how that has helped bring us to our current situation as a people.

            If we mistakenly edit out the difference between actual Teutonic/germanic peoples and the eastern meditteranids that have so plagued them, then be prepared for the final wave of genetic amalgamation with eastern Mediterraneans.
            Ruth westheimer is not German, babs is not German, sigmund fraud is not German.
            If we give these and their in group a pass, then give all the other light skinned Arab people a pass as well.
            I refuse to have history rewritten , in my view, simply because of the massive Anglo/Celtic/Norse fratricide of last century.

          • Brian

            Hebrew for father would be ‘ben’ wouldn’t it? I thought the ‘bar’ was Aramaic.

          • Romulus

            Ben is Hebrew for -son. Abba Aramaic for Daddy or when yeshua would reference God, father.
            Both languages owe their origins to……….. The tribe.
            Etymology is a helpful barometer to track migration and therefore influence from foreign migrants.
            For example, the first instance that you read any names from the good book in Europe, will denote tribal arrival. It matters not that a name is said in anothers language. Michael, Mikhail Miguel,MICHELLE, and Mike are all different languages, yet the origin and it’s dispersion come from the same source.

          • Brian

            “denote tribal arrival”? Michael and its variants are derived from the Bible of course, but they are common Christian names. The appearance of ‘Michael’ names in an area would be more likely to correlate to when a part of Europe was Christianized than when non-Eskimos moved in. Sept. 29 is the feast day of Michael the Archangel, and has been since the Roman Empire.

          • Romulus

            Who do you think did the Christianization of Europe? Surely you don’t believe it was indigenous Europeans who made paved the road?…, so to speak.
            All names in the Bible derive from the tribe.
            You can’t possibly believe that the Jewish minorities in Rome were Romans do you? That’s akin to saying that blacks are nordics because they live in Scandinavia. There is quite a distinction between a citizen in Rome and the founding Romans.

          • Brian

            Let me see if I have this straight– you think the Jews went all over Europe as missionaries, to convert the pagans– not to Judaism, mind you, but to Christianity? In my experience, missionaries generally try to convert folks to _their own religion_.

            All names in the Bible derive from the tribe.
            ===
            No, they do not. Silas, for example, is a Greek name. Goliath is a Philistine name, possibly of Mycenaean origin.

            You can’t possibly believe that the Jewish minorities in Rome were Romans do you?
            ===
            Not ethnic Romans, no. I’m not sure how that relates to the bit above though.

          • Romulus

            Your darn right they did! Christianity is NOT A EUROPEAN RELIGION.
            It only became such through forced conversion displacing pagan animism. Only AFTER the heathens were converted , did any of their own number also in turn convert their own.
            I would suggest reading Gibbon, among others for enlightenment.
            Yes the vast bulk of all names in the book are not European or Greek or any other European country. Ragnar is a Viking name. Michelle is the French equivalent of Michael, but neither derive from the FRANKS.
            Finding evidence of three names does not disprove the majority of them and while were on the subject, there is definitive proof that the Romans and Jews were two distinct peoples. , regardless of whether they lived within the empires borders or not. Perhaps you think blacks are Italians now that their migrating there.
            Both christianity and judaism were created and disseminated by Jews. The former becoming the ruling class in the empire after times collapse, the latter forming the churches opposition, initially with judaism and then later with the games underground scientist movement the illuminati and masons.
            I don’t have the space here to protract the entire history of Europe.
            Follow the trail by correlating the migrations of autosomal DNA, mdna and their assoc haplo groups of the tribe, coupled with the rise in the distinctive sects of christianity and you will see where it comes from.
            Here’s another inconvenient truth: The larger majority of humans now residing in sickly are in fact not sicilians. They are of Arab/moor/Muslim stock due to the invasions in the 10th and 11th centuries. They dam near killed everyone on the island and seeded whatever females were left. I suppose you believe that 1300 years magically transformed them into Romans instead of being invaders that conquered someone else s land.

            If you haven’t the time to read, watch the 3 part series called JESUS:RISE TO POWER from Roman history expert Michael Scott. It gives a condensed version but accurate, nonetheless. The

          • Brian

            I have read Gibbon’s Decline and Fall. And of course I’m aware, along with every other sentient being, of Christianity’s origin as an offshoot of Judaism, originating in Palestine. That doesn’t mean you can claim, with a straight face, that Christianity _remained_ nothing more than a branch of Judaism well into the time of north European conversions centuries later. Or perhaps you’d like to claim that Christianity _still is_ merely a branch of Judaism? I suppose you could, if you want to have an Alice-In-Wonderland approach to the English language. Most of us, though, consider Christianity to be its own separate religion, all grown up and moved away from home. And most of us would accept, for example, that guys like Columba or Patrick, doing conversions in Europe, were _Christians_, not Jews. Christianity is a European religion because Europe was almost exclusively Christian for most of the last 2000 years, and it moved beyond its Palestinian ‘nest’ almost immediately, around the same time it evolved into its own faith. Why are you playing these non-standard-English games?

            I don’t have the space here to protract the entire history of Europe.
            ===
            That’s fine. I’m not especially interested in a ‘history’ of Europe that features the ‘Masons and Illuminati’ as prime movers. (Did unicorns and Lee Harvey Oswald help spread Christianity too?) I’m more into non-fiction.

          • Romulus

            I’m not going to argue with you over what you presumably believe is my intention to disparage christianity’s origins and propagation. It is counter productive. There is far more to it’s history than is widely accepted.
            So let us end our discussion here. Were not here to compare brainpans or whose version trumps the other.
            I’ve listed several sources previously.
            You’ll believe what you will. Lastly, I don’t play games.

      • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

        I very much agree with you here. We are presently ruled by robber barons with no sense of themselves or shame.

  • JohnEngelman

    In October 1971 The Atlantic published an article by Harvard professor Richard Herrnstein entitled “IQ.” In this Professor Herrnstein anticipated assertions he and Charles Murray made later in The Bell Curve.

    He also predicted that as birth becomes less important in determining life outcomes, intelligence will become more important.

    Recently I read two articles in The New York Times that said that the SAT scores of children born to rich parents have increased significantly during the last generation, while overall scores have not increased very much if at all.

    The authors of the articles drew the wrong conclusions. They argued that this demonstrates that the SAT discriminates against poor teenagers.

    The truth is that contemporary SAT scores verify the prediction Richard Herrnstein made in his 1971 article.

    • MikeofAges

      That, Mr. Engleman, is why the “system” has to do as much as possible to prevent innate intelligence from prevailing. Keep people out of the entry level for a couple of year and they turn into displaced workers as new sub-generations come up behind them. That is one things the affirmative action system successfully sought to bring about, Since the 1970s, this has been the new policy and practice even though it has nothing to do with minority hiring as such. Very strange really, when you think about it, in that the same federal government that promoted and financed universal higher education then through another branch endeavored to make people’s degree worthless.

    • antiquesunlight

      I was listening to Charles Murray on some YT video a while back and he was saying that, because intelligence has become more emphasized in our society, smart people are more likely now than in the past to marry each other and live apart from less smart people, which means they have significantly smarter children and grand children. Pretty interesting. The rich are just getting richer and smarter. He was saying that we already have classes defined by IQ, and that the IQ Gap will only increase.

      • JohnEngelman

        Because Charles Murray’s arguments cannot be refuted many on the left try to suppress those arguments.

        Nevertheless, those arguments are uncongenial to white nationalists. In the cognitive elite that Charles Murray describes Jews and Orientals have a representation far out of proportion to their numbers in the U.S. population. This is because they tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles.

        As time goes on the cognitive elite in the United States will become more Jewish and more Oriental. Being a white Gentile heterosexual male does not matter any more. What matters is IQ.

        • Fathercoughlin

          Amy Chua—and John I know the thought of her probably makes your cold,hard heart go pitter patter;down boy!–maintains that other factors besides IQ are important.(She is lying about IQ of course,but these other factors may really be inmportant.) She says a feeling that one is special,superior,and a feeling that one is insecure,his place in doubt,as well as a feeling that one is angry and anxious to prove something,to prove his mettle,contribute to success. She forgot to add “clanishness”,which is big. I think white males have been utterly devastated by the people you love so well,and most dont even realize it. We need to adjust and change our way of thinking. America is dead. A new America is being born and we need to throw out the old rule book. (And we need….payback!)

          • JohnEngelman

            There will never be a white ethnostate. There will never be secession. Non whites and Jews will never be deported. Get used to it.

          • BonV.Vant

            Actually, there will be a white ethnostate as the state of affairs is heading to the failure of the present multiethnic United States. The trend in the world today is towards ethnostates. Perhaps you haven’t noticed what happened to the USSR and the eastern European multiethnic states. Perhaps you haven’t noticed the increasing fragmentation of the United States. It will happen, You will have to get used to it.

          • LACountyRedneck

            A few years ago I didn’t think it would happen in my lifetime. Now I’m sure of it.

          • BonV.Vant

            It gets more palpable every day! More and more people are calling for it every day. MR. Engleman is trying to hold the tide back with wish craft. Academics are always behind the tide of events, playing catch up and trying to claim later that they predicted them.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            Isn’t it interesting that California has a piece of legislation coming up on dividing the state into six separate states? I’d like to follow that story, but it’s hard to find news about it.

          • BonV.Vant

            and Colorado has a similar situation. Then one has the sections of Atlanta that are breaking away, and other cities are experiencing the same thing. There is no “social democracy”, there is no “blending”. The “”feel good, we are intellectuals and above all of that” only exists in some very small areas around some universities. Most people who believe they are forging a new “social democracy” are people who are deluding themselves, living in places such as the back bay or south end o of Boston- ALL WHITE areas, or Cambridge MA, again a town that is completely segregated between rich white areas and black projects.

          • LACountyRedneck

            I read about that somewhere also. Whether or not that happens, I really don’t care and wouldn’t mind if eventually the headlines read, “California falls off into the Pacific.” The state is a cancer that’s spreading.

          • BonV.Vant

            In the mid 80s I had a roommate who was Ukrainian. I heard about the horrors that the Bolsheviks inflicted on the Ukrainians. I was astounded as I had not heard any of this anywhere before at that time. I suggested that perhaps someday the Ukraine would become independent. Neither of us at that time seriously thought this would ever come to pass, or that the USSR would fall. Your statement only reflects what you wish to be true. It is more likely that you will be very bitter someday when what you do not want to come to pass does come true. The country is failing, and it will only get worse. WE have negroes taking over the government, inciting their brethren to commit atrocities against whites, negroes in government refusing to punish the negroes committing said atrocities , negroes threatening to put operatives in newsrooms in order to control the news. You think this will stand for long? You think negroes and other antiwhites will not keep pushing the line further and further until there is a reaction? You must be kidding. There will be a reaction. Too much has already happened that can not be forgotten nor forgiven. Much worse will happen too. No. The fabric of this country is unravelling before our very eyes and you sit there and say this can continue forever.

          • JohnEngelman

            I am not one to apologize for black crimes. Nevertheless, the overall rate of violent crime in the United States has declined since 1991.

            The election of a black president does not mean that “The fabric of this country is unraveling before our very eyes.”

            The economy is gradually recovering.

            Change is not decline.

          • Andy

            Change is not *always* decline.

            But we have a country where it is considered of questionable legality for a Christian baker to refuse to make “gay” wedding cakes, where news websites are covered in stories of what obscene gesture Miley made on stage this week, where a good portion of city children are raised by the state (school, afterschool care, daycare, preschool, three meals a day, counseling, medical…), where the birthrate is below replacement and falling for everyone but the underclass, where people are granted college degrees for spending four years whining and listening to others whine about how oppressed they are as black, female, or gay, where children are not allowed to play-fight but we have school shooting every couple of weeks, where a good portion of youth spend most of their time playing (often violent, almost always mindless) games, watching television, or hearing people “sing” about the joys of murder, rape, and robbery, where it is extremely difficult for a low-IQ person to get a decent job, where chastity is considered laughable, where the pool of those receiving aid from the government is larger than the pool of those paying taxes, where intelligent young women parade through the streets in lingerie for self-described “slut-walks” and describe themselves as bisexual to maximize their oppressedness, where the *academic* elite talks seriously of banning opinions they dislike and insist that, although being a transsexual or “nonbinary” is unquestionably biologically determined, race has nothing to do with genes, where the history and heritage of the general populace are constantly attacked and mocked, where the press is dishonest enough to pretend that people must be “brave” in order to be publicly gay, but call open racists cowards, where… you get the idea. Our military is declining, our economy serves the talented fairly well and others not at all, and there is no sense of unity and fewer and fewer invest in the community by having beloved children whose welfare depends on that of the community. It surely seemed unthinkable to the late Romans that their city would be sacked after eight hundred years of safety, but empires rise and fall. We have many of the same problems they did: a huge dependent class, undisciplined and interested in little besides entertainment, with politicians pandering to them; enormous numbers of less-civilized foreigners pounding at our doors, desperate or simply desirous of our land and wealth; and a sick upper class, scornful of moral obligations and producing few children. Nothing lasts forever on earth, and America will not be an exception.

          • BonV.Vant

            To claim that the overall rate of violent crime has declined and that this means everything is OK is choosing to be ignorant and considering it a virtue. There is an active race war going on, and it is getting worse every day. In 1991 white people were not at much risk of being attacked IN THEIR OWN HOMES, nor were they at much risk of being ATTACKED AT RANDOM. The security and safety of whites is greatly reduced from what it was in 1991.

            I never said that the election of a black president was THE indication that the fabric of society was unravelling before our very eyes. It is the seizure of power by blacks and their ABUSE of it that DEFINITeLEY has unravelled the fabric of this country. There are deeper divisions than ever before in this country.

            Change is not decline, decline is decline. The economy is not recovering, they are just hiding the true facts. You have to get used to it, things are changing, and not in the way you WISH them to.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            You’re so full of stuff. Gang violence has gone down, but violence against whites has gone up. This is you doing a classic of statistical evasion/deception.

          • BonV.Vant

            He is an academic, he can not recognize the importance of facts, he can just regurgitate them. Of course, statistics can be used to prove anything. They do not change peoples ideas and beliefs. Not when they see stories of white kids being beaten up on their way home from school, on their way home from a bar, not when they see stories of white guys being gunned down while jogging. Not when they see stories and videos of a black invading the home of a young white mother and beating her in front of her terrified child . JE does not at all know how public sentiment is created, that those who blandly regurgitate statistics never have any impact on public sentiment.

          • JohnEngelman

            I document my assertions. Document yours.

          • BonV.Vant

            “The latest FBI statistics show that violent attacks on whites have increased by 18% from 2010 to 2011. At the same time, violent crimes against blacks only increased by 2 percent.
            Daniel Greenfield at FrontPage reported on this back in October of 2012.”

            There you go john, close to a 20% increase in one year. Who knows how much it was in each of the past tow years. So, what was that you were saying?

          • JohnEngelman

            Post a website provided by the FBI that verifies that.

          • BonV.Vant

            you document misleading statistics, you tell only part of the story. You did not state that black on white violence increased by 18% from 2010 to 2011. One can draw only one of two possible conclusions from this, ONE you are being intentionally misleading or TWO, you do not know what you are talking about. SO WHICH WAS IT?

          • dd121

            Unfortunately, the glowing reports of how well the economy is doing is being reported by the party who politically benefits from such news. I deeply distrust anything the government tells me. It is worth noting the printing 85 billion a month will be at the very least, inflationary and possibly catastrophic to the economy at some point. Time will tell.

          • JohnEngelman

            If you do not trust data drawn from credible sources it is impossible to have a rational debate with you.

          • Fr. John+

            Ha. You’re not God, and you aren’t omniscient. So stuff it. Deo Volente, and nothing can stop the Election of the Almighty of those He chooses… and he’s not going to abandon Christendom any time soon.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            You’ve got quite an imagination. But how does your religious mythology account for the fall of the white man and so much else?

            Don’t try to answer me, I already know. The worse problem of whites is this ridiculous adherence to a two thousand year old set of superstitions and intellectual backwardness. Can’t people like you learn anything from history?

          • Fr. John+

            NOt when the historians call Truth incarnate, ‘myth.’
            We don’t like BS masquerading as civilized humanity.

          • LACountyRedneck

            Don’t bet on it. It’s happened elsewhere and it will happen here. And you won’t be invited. You’ll have plenty of non-Whites to hang out with along with other liberal dependents. Enjoy.

          • JohnEngelman

            Where has it happened?

          • LACountyRedneck

            USSR, Yugoslavia are a couple examples.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            Every empire I can think of; British, Hapsburg, Roman, French, etc., etc., up to the recent and growing trend toward independence. California is considering legislation to divide the state into six separate states. As one who live in California for most of my early life, I’m for it, at least the formation of an independent north (always called State of Jefferson).

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            What you say may be true, but no one has to get used to it. The U.S. has become Balkanized is what has happened. You get used to that. Like Yugoslavia, the U.S. has become an ethnostate with competing factions tearing at it. History shows that such states don’t last.

          • BonV.Vant

            Amren had a story a few weeks ago about towns in California that are now populated mostly by mexicans. There is no “mixing”, there is no “diversity” as Engleman imagines. There are ethnic enclaves. Social democracy is a meaningless term used by academics who make a living saying nothing but saying it in flowery terms.

          • Truth Teller

            I have a question. Since you like Jews but hate Blacks what do you think of Ethiopian Jews?

          • JohnEngelman

            I like every black person I know, but I have to admit that I have a low opinion of the race.

            I do not have much of an opinion of Ethiopian Jews. I have read that in Israel they tend to have low IQ’s, and are more prone to violent crime than the general population.

            Unlike the Ashkenazim, the Sephardim, and the Mizrahim, Ethiopian Jews are not descended from the ancient Israelites of the Old Testament.

            The Ethiopians and the Nubians are the two Negro nations that had urban civilizations before the time of Christ.

            My contact with Ethiopians has been limited to an Ethiopian who performed well at the computer school we both attended, and Ethiopian restaurants I have enjoyed dining at.

          • BonV.Vant

            stop talking about yourself, no one is interested

        • me

          Well, that leaves you in the dust!

        • antiquesunlight

          I don’t pretend to be a geneticist, but as far as I’m concerned, Jews are white. (It doesn’t seem to me like the distance between myself and a Jew is any greater, in fact it is visually smaller, than the distance between a Sicilian and a Swede.) I know you weren’t necessarily saying otherwise (I don’t know your opinion), but I felt a need to express myself on that point. So for me, saying Jews will be at the top is like saying Russians will be at top. I don’t care. I think of Jews as being the white equivalent of North East Asians.
          It is no surprise to me whatsoever if different ethnicities within races do better than others, whether because of cultural or genetic differences (or both). That is a subject I would like to look into more.
          In any case, I suspect that mentally demanding occupations (like engineering and computer programming) are and will continue to be dominated by some pie graph of non-Jewish Whites, Jews, and North East Asians, and I am confident enough in the abilities of my own particular ethnic group to believe that we will continue to do just fine with or without Chinese folks around. And while I am white and generally prefer the company of other white people, Jews (whatever they are) and East Asians are frankly the least of my concerns.
          A bit of a ramble. Sorry.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            No, no…. Jews are not white. Jewish is a religion and many races are contained within the designation of Jewish. You are thinking only of Ashenazi (German) Jews that arrived in Europe as early as the 6th century (were there with the Romans as military suppliers). The first ones have been shown (genetically) to have been men that married into the local population. They were picked on by Christianity from time to time and finally isolated after the Black Plague of the 14th century because the Catholic Church went along with the lie that Jews poisoning wells was the cause (after all their praying and rituals failed). Most of modern European anti-Jewish attitude is a left over from this time.

            But where Asians are concerned, we need to be worried. They are like bugs and they swarm. They are content to live in high populations densities. There is no mystery as to why all the major outbreaks in history began in Asia (Bubonic Plague, too). I respect their cultures far more than any other non-European one, but we will not survive as a race in direct proximity with them.

          • antiquesunlight

            I know some Jews are Middle Eastern or whatever else, but every Jew I’ve ever met looks white. Most of them, I would have never known were Jewish had they not brought it up. I think I could pick out an Italian easier than I could pick out a Jew. Also the famous American ones, like Stern, Seinfeld, Zuckerberg, etc. look white. Anyway, aren’t Ashkenazi Jews the smart ones anyway? I don’t think anybody is worried about the other ones taking over elite jobs.
            I’m against any group of foreigners coming over here rapidly in large numbers, even white ones. All I meant by my “not concerned” comment was that Mexicans and Blacks are much more of a problem than Ashkenazi Jews or Asians.

          • LACountyRedneck

            Many Jews that control the media, high ranking military positions, banking, etc., don’t give a rats azz for non-Jews. If it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t be having major issues with illegals and blacks, among other things. And they control Hollywood which rots our society. So whether or not they are White, in their minds they are Jewish first. Along with that, we have plenty of White prostitute-politicians running our country. Voting seems futile. It’s as if they are trying to make us believe we have some choice.

      • Fathercoughlin

        If you read the blog Heartiste,the author talks about the need for a return to the old way of mating, Dominant male with socially lesser female,aka boss marries secretary. This may ensure a wider distribution of IQ and higher mobility. The most high IQ woman are by far the least likely to have kids. The lower IQ ladies seem to be doing fine in that department.

      • BonV.Vant

        The children of the rich are more often than not wastrels

  • sbuffalonative

    But to be clear, we found no evidence that certain racial groups
    innately did better than others. Very high-status groups in America
    include Ashkenazi Jews, Egyptian Copts, Iranian Muslims, Indian Hindus
    and Christians, and West Africans.

    I suspect they threw this tidbit in to appease blacks and their apologists. They can’t very well say this applies to all people except Africans, can they?

  • Samuel_Morton

    The majority of this article is actually refreshingly honest for the NYT. The authors smartly sidestep the ire of cultural marxists by making the following claims:

    1) Race has nothing to do with it. (Which is contradicted everywhere else in this article).

    2) There are groups of blacks who are high achieving. (In this case West Africans)

    I wonder what kind of metrics they’re using for high-status West Africans? Ability to knock someone out with one sucker punch?

    • LHathaway

      In another article, that seemed to be mostly about debunking and disparaging racists, the author claimed Nigerians, Some Cubans, and other groups do well in the USA because they were the top IQ people and were doing well back in their own countries before moving here. Ignoring the fact this actually kind of gives credence to racists or ‘IQ’ fetishist s (which the article was trying to debunk) it should make loser whites at least feel better about how they were displaced. It’s all part of the effect of the ‘global economy’.

      • M&S

        LH,

        >>
        …the author claimed Nigerians, Some Cubans, and other groups do well in the USA because they were the top IQ people and were doing well back in their own countries before moving here.
        >>

        That was my first thought as well, though you have to account for the kinds of ‘work’ that makes money in those places.

        Upon further reflection though, I don’t think it is quite that simple.

        America is indeed known throughout the world as being a Brain Drain for talent and this is one of the few reasons why, when you look at patent applications alone, it appears we are holding our own, even though we build _nothing_ here.

        Smart People associate with smart people and have smart kids, but in the process, they define a ‘smart society’ which leverages wealth to the few and destroys the integrity of the genetic algorithm (survival method: throw out a technique, pick the winners, vary the technique, pick the winners etc. survive, breed, succeed) that is _population_ based around exploiting those smart ideas to a common cultural success story.

        Because the nature and indeed the _strength_ of the society is that of creating a condition which works best for them as a whole.

        Other cultures, while not as advanced, are not nearly so stupid about the value of valuing the Home Team.

        The upper tier scientific echelons may play the glad-hand around the globe game but their personal attitudes and certainly their leadership’s State beliefs are always about maintaining a dominant control over the ‘agenda’ (GA writ large) through meshed compatibility with the existing populations rather than attempting to create a mixed interbred mush.

        Because keeping the many happy accrues life satisfaction and security to the highest levels as well.

        Which is why China is 93% Han Chinese. Saudi is 100% Islamic. Egypt, Japan, Mexico have prohibitive immigration etc., etc..

        There is ZERO social consciousness for the elites here because they have created an amalgamative hyper-class system which /depends/ on winning the skills as the loyalty of a tiny minority fraction of genius from abroad to compensate for the lack of closed shop internal mercantile control over production as dominance of new technology.

        Creaming the best is likely why ‘Hindus’ (most likely Parsi or Brahmin) from India, a land with an average 84 IQ, are displacing whites left right and center in the higher STEM, Medical and Academic faculty positions of American research and teaching institutions.

        However; what these sheltered little twits fail to take into account is simply this:

        They gather to America talent which wants to be here because America was a success already. What happens when our society breaks down and no longer is so?

        For in creating this little clique society, they blind themselves to the realities of both who generates the GDP wealth base to -pay- for their new friends. And why these new comers were not blazing trails where they came from. As places from which American -also- imports the worst of the average whom no white middle class wants to associate as a step down and whom all whites despise as a cheaper alternative.

        Of course, socialist capitalism almost defacto requires Lysenkoism, even if it is cubbhyholing according to ‘what birth fated you to be’ and that finding a place for outsiders egalitarianism in turn breaks down the social unity as protectionist status perception of common benefit by which these dweebs get their cash to be heroes of the World Citizen avante` garde`.

        When White society collapses, these are the kinds of socially blind halfwits who think that they will simply flock somewhere else where ‘it’s all about ability’.

        Never realizing that ability which is covered (perhaps not as well but adequately) by other, native, specialists _taught by the American system but born nationalist to their own_ means that State X doesn’t have to pay you to be a foreign devil in their midst.

        Doesn’t -want- to do so.

        Because…GA.

        GA is the deepest instinct there is. Survive childhood. Select a mate who compliments your genes. Successfully raise kids to a point where they can breed. Better than everyone else.

        It is evolution.

        And it is about creating barriers of pre-speciation eliteness that isolate clumsy genes from successful ones so that life improves to meet new challenges.

        But this doesn’t mean that GA looks for cliques. Because GA is also about the survibability ratios as benefits of being in a common _Group_ where variants of genetic mutations can repeat-code stack and thus show up more often in generational rotations.

        And where new, more successful, mutations can _sweep_ through the entire population. Both because they are socially more acceptable as mating partners and because those sweeping alleles are beneficial within the GA context of common environment and prevailing ability (if not genetic compatibility).

        That whites are being destroyed as a race by idiot smart people is nothing surprising to those here.

        That there is actually a counterargument to the notion of best-genetics = cosmopolitan mixing of elite genes is what most people don’t get the other side of the story on:

        Mixing your genes does you no good if no one else accepts you as a muddied people, however smart.

        Mixing societies by importing the average as the excellent in equal measure destroys the systemic synergies by which the base society has a motive to improve what is already a successful GA.

        Because by far and away, the exogroup outsider GA is _not_ as successful. Or they wouldn’t be coming here.

        This is why whites must invent robots to maximize our work product in competing with dumb menial wage slaves. And seal that work product away from the so-called smart elites in direct competition for control of GDP.

        Because it is in controlling labor that you control society’s engine-turns-over stability. And it is by whites having the kinds of income stability to be attractive to successful white partners wanting large families that we will fight off a deliberate extinction attempt on our subspecies.

        Whites have to realize that the only way to beat the wage slave race to the bottom on standards of living is to create a FREE labor system which allows us to do the menial jobs which we now allocate to other races. And insodoing (through anthropomorphic robotics) begin to serve _only our needs_. Locking away white social wealth from the self-destructively mad dog innocence of our elites that look upon their ‘best brown friends’ and delusionally believe they represent the reality of the world as a whole.

        They don’t live with the Majority Other we have to share our lives with.

        And so they must be schooled: Help us. Support OUR society for OUR GA, exclusive of your playmates. Or you will be without our effector base as white work ethic.

        And so, Die Alone amidst The Hordes you hold so dear.

    • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

      No, the ability to bilk dumb, lonely Christian white women out of their bank accounts by soliciting them through emails as lovers or just a government official that needs to transfer funds out of a state in crisis and will pay them a million or two to help. (Proving again that women ought to rule).

  • Spartacus

    “We came to these conclusions after examining reams of data on surnames, a
    surprisingly strong indicator of social status, in eight
    countries—Chile, China, England, India, Japan, South Korea, Sweden and
    the United States—going back centuries.”

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    Notice how they didn’t study any African countries. You need literacy to keep records…

  • Spartacus

    “Muslims are low-status in much of India and Europe, but Iranian Muslims are among the most elite of all groups in America. ”

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    Many more Iranians are White. Most of the other muslims aren’t . It’s that simple. Many of the “issues” you raise here can be quite simply explained by race .

    • Daniel Schmuhl

      Or self selection among the immigrants..

      • Spartacus

        That too .

    • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

      Central Asians – Persians are not whites.

      • Spartacus

        Persians WERE White, and there still are many purebreds in Iran . There’s no such race as “central Asians” ….

        • BonV.Vant

          Why can’t there be Persians and “Central Asians”? Wouldn’t a central asian be a Kazakh, Turkmen, Kyrgyz, Tajik , Uzbek? IF we can have a term such as “European” that denotes a family of ethnicities, why can we not have “central asian”?

          • Spartacus

            Central asians are not a distinct race, they are mongrelized White/Yellow groups .

          • BonV.Vant

            Well, I will not disagree with that but I think the term “central asians” would then mean a collection of mongrelized White/yellow groups.

  • Peter Connor

    Could it be that these name elites have higher IQs, perhaps because they marry brighter women?

  • anon

    No. In modern meritocratic societies, success still depends on individual effort
    The more you study history, the more you will come to realize that ONLY when taken as a whole society are they meritocracies. Individual wealth, status, and control are all rigged and always have been going back thousands of years through various secret societies. Centuries ago, they would murder you for daring to even whisper about them. Today, their power is so secure they write books about it. One can find such fascinating and morbid fare as various websites documenting how many dozens the Clintons, for example, have had blatantly murdered for standing against them or even just getting in their way.
    That the agreements hold after so many generations is extremely interesting. These people do nothing different than the rest of us…indeed, many of them are remarkably stupid. But success is easy when you have hundreds of secret friends that own most of the world’s wealth and will work ONLY with you and no one else.
    Another interesting thing. Some of the secret societies have semi-open measurement. A good example is the George Zimmerman case. Mentioned, but not made a big deal of is the fact that Martin’s father is a relatively high level (of the garbage ranks) Mason.

  • antiquesunlight

    I don’t dispute the overall point that genetics largely determine your success, but some of this sounds weird to me.

    “There are representatives from nearly every major religious and ethnic group in the world—except for the group that led to the argument for culture as the foundation of social success: white European Protestants. Muslims are low-status in much of India and Europe, but Iranian Muslims are among the most elite of all groups in America.”

    If there are a statistically insignificant number of wealthy white Protestants (which I seriously doubt is true) but not an insignificant number of wealthy white people, wouldn’t this be evidence that culture *does* influence success (for the worse in this case)? If being Protestant had no influence whatsoever on whether you are successful or not, you would expect there to be at least some wealthy Protestants. Have I missed the point? And they say white Protestants. What about black Protestants? Are non-Protestant blacks more likely to be high class than Protestant ones?

    Furthermore, might this not be strongly correlated to the fact that there are many times more white European Protestants in the country than there are Iranian Muslims? Of course if you have little other than the top 5% of a group coming over here (which I suspect is the case for many immigrant groups, like Indians) then they will be disproportionately present among the wealthy in relative population percentages compared to a large group that is representative of the whole. You can’t infer from that that their culture is irrelevant. Nobody denies that there are wealthy people from most any conceivable culture. The question is whether, as a group, they are more or less likely to be wealthy, poor, or in between.

    “Our findings do suggest that intermarriage among people of different strata will raise mobility over time. India, we found, has exceptionally low mobility in part because religion and caste have barred intermarriage. As long as mating is assortative—partners are of similar social status, regardless of ethnic, national or religious background—social mobility will remain low.”

    I don’t understand how intermarriage increases social mobility. Of course if the genetically unsuccessful marry up, their children will do better, but if the genetically successful marry down, their children will do worse. So you’re not increasing the overall ability to move from one class to another, you’re just decreasing the number of classes.

    • jambi19

      The assumption is wrong. Compare Protestant countries in terms of wealth to non-protestant countries (Catholic, Orthodox, etc). Also as far as the marrying down vs. marrying up I think the author is stressing over several generations vs what you argue those marrying down will suffer in this generation and in the next. (which I think most would agree with)

      • antiquesunlight

        Maybe I’ve missed your point, but it seems to me that they can’t have it both ways (regarding mobility). If class is *not* largely determined by genetics, then it makes sense to say that intermarriage between classes would increase mobility, because people from the low class who have success will marry high class people, which will result in an overall upward mobility (and downward mobility, too, for that matter). However, if class/success is largely determined by genetics, then a genetically low class person (for lack of a better term) who marries up would obviously be moving *himself* up the ladder, but his inferior genes would pull his spouses genes down to the mean between the two of them. That means that, over time, the more intermarriage there is between classes, the more the entire society melts down to the societal mean. In the most extreme scenario, there would eventually be only one class with a definite genetic potential. Everybody would achieve at very similar, moderate levels.
        It would be like if you had the dumbest people having children with all the smartest people. To begin with, the dumb people would be “moving up,” but over time, you’d end up with a bunch of people who are neither really stupid nor really smart. Not a perfect analogy, but you get the point.

        • jambi19

          Yes. You have a strong argument. Look at the general social structure of all of Latin America. In every single country throughout history and modern day we see European whites from Spain in the highest class above middle class mestizos while blacks/natives are overwhelmingly represented in the lower classes. That case study reaffirms your proposition.

  • Truth Teller

    I wonder about this. Egyptian Copts are rare in America. I know that in Egypt there are typical financially successful separatist minorities. I do not think there is any African country with an average IQ higher than 80 I need to see some facts and figures about these 2 groups instead of conclusions.
    Los Angeles and S California have the biggest Iranian communities. The Jews seem to be the most successful. Again I would like to see what the author based his conclusions on.
    Maybe Persian Muslim Medicare fraud Drs in Orange County?
    The study concentrated only on Drs and attorneys. So I guess people like the founders of
    Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, Walmart etc don’t count. The owners of 7-11, Subway, McDonalds and other franchises make ore than most Drs and attorneys.
    One of my brothers was turned down for medical school because of AA.T he rejection letter was quite plain; “judicial constraint” required that they accept only certain kinds of applicants. So he went to MBA school instead. I don’t know what his income is in relation to Drs. An MBA is 2 years. Med school is 4 years with an additional 5 or 6 years of training.
    So the typical Dr. loses 7 years of pay which lessens life time earnings in relation to an MBA.

    • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

      The last story I saw on Medicare fraud in SoCal was by Armenian immigrants that set up phony supply sites and billed for undelivered devices. They were Christians.

  • Truth Teller

    There have been numerous studies that show that adopted children have the same IQs, talents and tastes of their parents.

    • BonV.Vant

      which “patents’? Their adoptive parents or their biological parents?

      • WR_the_realist

        Biological, although Truth Teller should have made that clear.

        • BonV.Vant

          I wanted to know so I could decide whether to vote the comment up or not.

  • Truth Teller

    Affirmative action has been around for 2 generations now. It keeps White Christians out of the elite universities. It keeps White Christians from starting on a career path. If White Christians do get a job, they won’t be promoted for 30 years As small business people we cannot get government loans or government contracts.
    We have less to give our children. Our children will be even more discriminated against than we are. In addition to losing to blacks and Hispanics for employment, we are competing in business with White and Asian immigrants from the most corrupt countries in the world who arrive here ready to lie cheat, steal and network their way to the top.

    • Max

      Lying, stealing and cheating are precious genetic gits to those who can successfully employ them.

  • JohnEngelman

    You are making excuses for the prosperity of Jews and Orientals. Until recently they were discriminated against.

    • Fathercoughlin

      Jews and Asians discriminate against us–and that will increase incessantly until,we stop it.

      • JohnEngelman

        How do they discriminate against us? Document your assertions.

        • BonV.Vant

          Are you not aware of how the jews at the SPLC destroyed Jarred Taylor’s career as a translator?

          • JohnEngelman

            Just because Jews belong to the SPLC does not mean that it is a Jewish organization.

          • LACountyRedneck

            Supposedly as of January 2010: Of the twenty-one members of the Southern Poverty Law Center senior program staff, twelve (12) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 57%. Of the eleven (11) members of the Southern Poverty Law Center board of directors, six (6) are Jews or have Jewish spouses.

            This is a numerical representation of 55%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* This means that Jews are over-represented on the Southern Poverty Law Center senior program staff by a factor of 28.5 times, or 2,850 [two thousand eight hundred and fifty percent] percent, and over-represented on the Southern Poverty Law Center board of directors by a factor of 27.5 times, or 2.750 %.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            All I have to say about that is that Jews have always been able to make money from the follies of white Christians and others. My bet is that they don’t hang around blacks or any such, but love their offshore bank accounts and lifestyle. We made Jews our enemies for centuries. It frustrates us that they are so good at fighting back. I don’t know how to undo this however, since it is so deeply established and engrained.

          • BonV.Vant

            it is a jewish organization. It was founded by jews, it is about 60% jews. IT operates according to jewish cultural marxism.

          • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

            Yes, but to reverse quote a famous man, “Is there no evil practice that at least one Christian took part in?” In this case, 40%.

          • BonV.Vant

            the stream is the jewish cultural tradition. streams sometimes carry things with them.

  • Pelagian

    Well, usury will do that.

  • Truth Teller

    Study fails to mention that every American President but 1 have been Protestants. Kennedy was Irish Catholic. Obama’s Mother came from old WASP stock turned communist. He claims to be Protestant and attended Protestant services all his years in Chicago. His daughters have been baptized. Van Buren and Roosevelt had Dutch names but were mixed English and Dutch.
    There is an Egyptian Coptic church a couple miles away in Santa Monica. Maybe I’ll join and snag some wealthy and superior mates to improve my California redneck family grandchildren.
    The whole point of this is to show that native born White Americans of whatever ethnicity are so stupid the capitalists need to import non Whites for every job requiring an IQ over 105.

    • Katherine McChesney

      That Egyptian Coptic church is on 4th between Arizona and Wilshire Blvd. I walked by there to shop at Wild Oats before Whole Foods bought them.

      • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

        What’s it like to shop with so many extreme liberals at either Wild Oats or Whole Foods down there? I stopped shopping at the one up here (Washington) because they cheated on pricing labels so many times that I grew disgusted with them.

    • WR_the_realist

      I doubt that Obama has any religion at all. He attended a black nationalist “church” that praised Farrakhan (Jeremiah Wright gave Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award). Farrakhan is, of course, the head of the Nation of Islam, and in one youtube video he can be seen referring to Jesus in a disparaging way as “that blond haired Jew”. Whatever Wright was preaching it didn’t have a heck of a lot to do with Christianity.

      • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

        What I’ve noticed is that Christianity can be made into anything anyone cares to create.

    • BonV.Vant

      well, if they had used that one criteria as a measure of success, then WASPS would have been the clear winners. IT goes to show you, statistics can be used to prove anything.

  • Truth Teller

    Check out the article I posted yesterday, “25 Charged in Fraud Involving Home Health Care In DC.
    280 million in Medicare and Medicaid fraud by immigrants from Cameroon, a W. African Country. One woman alone got away with 75 million.
    They made more money than most turd world immigrants, but almost all turd world immigrants from the turd world they made it by crime
    The greatest Medicare Medicaid fraud was more than one billion dollars in just one year by an Ashkenazi Jew, a Russian immigrant whose foreign MD degree turned out to be false.
    Los Angeles metro area is full of Armenian medical supply stores. For such a wealthy group, a surprising number of Armenians get Medicaid as “refugees” Of course the elders all get Medicare. The crooked Armenian Drs buy Medicaid numbers from Hispanics..
    The crooked Armenian Dr writes a prescription for$12,000 wheelchairs, $6,000 hospital beds and other expensive equipment. The crooked Armenian store owner, often a relative, sends the bill to Medicare and Medicaid. The equipment does not actually exist. But Medicare and Medicaid pay for it. They do not deal with private insurance companies who would never pay such bills without making sure the patient needed the equipment.
    There may be turd world immigrants who make an honest living.

  • BonV.Vant

    “We used two indicators of social status: the American Medical Association’s directory of physicians and registries of licensed attorneys, along with their dates of registration, in 25 states, covering 74 percent of the population.”…

    can valid conclusions really be drawn from this? They chose a very narrow segment of the successful and those who have social status.

    • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

      Yeah, I felt that is was a very contrived study. It claims that the French in Canada aren’t oppressed, but they have been a great deal and now suffer economically for their separatism.

  • Einsatzgrenadier

    The same applies to all mammalian species. The American zoologist E.R. Hall wrote:

    Two subspecies of the same species do not occur in the same geographic area.

  • Martel

    “Social mobility in the Communist era has accelerated, but by very little. Mao failed”

    Because Mao wasn’t a mass murdered who could care less about social mobility.

  • me

    Nope. The World Health Organization goes into the dark continent of Africa on a regular basis, to ‘train’ new doctors–with the stipulation that these new ‘doctors’ stay and take care of the people of their own country. Of course, as soon as they get their ‘diploma’, they’re off to Europe or the USA to practice their sub-minimal ‘medicine’ on the unsuspecting liberal populace of those areas. A relative of mine trained many a wild Bantu into ‘medicine’ all over Africa, and he did this for over four decades. He dedicated his life towards helping the ‘poor, unfortunate Africans’ as a medical instructor and practitioner. Now, looking back, he says the only solution to the ‘African problem’ is to bomb ‘that g-dam continent off the face of the earth’. He feels he’s wasted his life for NOTHING. Sad…

  • libertarian1234

    “Gregory Clark, New York Times,”
    “The study, by researchers at Harvard and Berkeley, tells only part of the story”

    Gregory Clark of the NY Times? And ‘researchers” at Harvard and Berkley?

    Hahahahahaha!

    Gee, I wonder if this article might be biased?

    Hahahahaha!

  • John R

    Yes, and you notice that nearly all doctors, and CPA’s are White, too. “That’s cuz dem tests beez raysis!”

  • Edruezzi

    Drive and ability are a lot more subject to selection in the primitive environment than IQ ever could be.

    • BonV.Vant

      That depends on which primitive environment one is taking about. In the tropics food is available all year round. One can subsist just by picking the low hanging fruits. The major challenge to survival in such places is to avoid being prey. When one moves to latitudes where there are seasons to contend with then survival depends on drive, ability and intelligence. Colder climates also require a faster metabolism for survival. More and better mitochondria produce more body heat, but also more energetic people with much sharper minds. One of the major causes of cognitive decline and Alzheimers in the aged is the degeneration of , and the reduction in the number of mitochondria in the brains . Mitochondrail DNA is separate from cellular DNA and mixing races with blacks will have all sorts of bad repercussions. One can have a bantu brain coupled with a much more active metabolism, and one can have bad mitochondria passed into the white population.

      • Edruezzi

        I don’t like to be argumentative but bad science can be guaranteed to get me to sit up, so here we go.
        Your view of the tropics must come from tourist brochures for the Caribbean. You clearly have never been in the tropics. Just like the colder regions, there are periods of the year when food supply shuts down in the tropics. The tropics might not have winter, but plants there have life cycles.
        Your use of the phrase low-hanging fruit can only be understood as a metaphor. Anybody who tried to live off low-hanging fruit in Africa or the Amazon would starve. The isolated tribes of the Amazon do not live off fruit.
        Even an elementary knowledge of physiology indicates that a faster metabolism has nothing to do with intelligence, all things being equal.
        You display a lack of knowledge of what mitochondria does in cells, and you also have to explain what you mean by “better” mitochondria. That statement has no operational meaning.
        Yes, mitochondrial DNA is separate from cellular DNA. What does that have to do with mixing races with blacks? Given the near uniformity of DNA in the human population there might not be any need to mix races with blacks to have bad repercussions, or any repercussions. You share 99.9% of your DNA with blacks whether mixed with them or not.

        • BonV.Vant

          actually, it has been found that cognitive decline and alzheimers are directly linked to mitochondrial deterioration

          • Edruezzi

            Thank you for this enlightening post.

          • Edruezzi

            The point is this. The story of race is a story of human variation. So we have human variation globally, variation among the 7 billion people in the world. For race to mean what folk wisdom says it does we would have to be able to isolate variation within races from global variation. We can’t. That’s why this NYT article says nothing about race.

          • Edruezzi

            The point is this. The story of race is a story of human variation. So we have human variation globally, variation among the 7 billion people in the world. Think of it as the bell curve of all mankind. For race to mean what folk wisdom says it does we would have to be able to isolate variation within races from global variation. We can’t, unless we are willing to call the isolation an artifact of our own choosing. That’s why this NYT article says nothing about race.

  • gubblerchechenova

    Is racial theory related to slavery?

    If ‘racial science’ is associated with slavery, why did slavery exist in Africa since the beginning of time when racial science didn’t exist?

    And slavery was big in the Muslim Middle East/North Africa and Asia but neither was into racial science. If anything, most Asians enslaved other Asians. And Latin America lagged in science of all kinds–even racial science–, but it was more stubbornly pro-slavery than North America.

    In America, most race-scientists were in the North and they wanted slavery abolished. Southerners were more likely to invoke the Bible or some such idea to justify slavery than racial science. And during the Jim Crow yrs, most white southerners rejected Darwinism and the science of race. They just believed God made races differently. It was based on the Bible.

    The nation that was most advanced in racial science for a long time was UK but it was at the forefront of ending slavery all over the world. And in general, social liberals and progressives were more likely to be race-scientists whereas most conservatives stuck to the Bible and tradition.

    One case where racial science was associated with slavery was Nazi Germany. Germans did use racial theories to enslave certain races, but then, communism said all races were equal but it created vast slave states in Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia, and etc.

    So, anti-’racist’ ideology led to the most extensive forms of slavery.

    Indeed, the radical notions of ‘racial egalitarianism’ and ‘social justice’ are bound to create a universal slave state–but if everyone is a slave, I guess it’s equal opportunity slavery, so it’s maybe okay. In order to force all people to be equal, the state has to run society like a prison. Thus, communism is universal slavery since freedom leads to inequalities.

    Also, the notion of ‘social justice’ is premised on punishment for historical, social, and/or economic sins. (The essence of ‘justice’ is to punish the wrongdoers.) We believe that a man who committed a crime has no right to be free and must serve in jail. Similarly, ‘social justice’ idea says some races, nations, or classes are guilty of historical crimes. As such, they have no right to be free and must be forcibly reformed in a prison setting. Just as John Gacy had no right to be free for what he did, leftism says white folks have no right to be free for their ‘historical crimes and sins’–though Jews never seem to be punished for communism/Zionism and black Africans are never punished for capturing and selling slaves for 1000s of yrs. (Historical justice is always selective, just like the Nuremberg and Tokyo trials.) And communists said the bourgeoisie and ‘kulaks’ had no right to be free since they had historically exploited and oppressed other classes. Since entire peoples are thus denied their freedom, radical egalitarianism produces a slave system in the name of ‘social justice’(or collective punishment for historical crimes). Conservatives say ‘freedom’, and Liberals say ‘justice’. To many progs, conservatives have no right to be free since they must do jail time for their historical sins. White libs supposedly get a ‘get out of jail card’ since they are so repentant and committed to equality… which must be why blue Lib cities are getting richer and more privileged!

    Theoretically under communism or radical leftism, only the guilty classes or ethnic groups should be punished, but as the government gains total power under radical leftism, even the working class and peasants are treated as properties of the state, which is why so many workers and peasants had it so bad under communism. Some people might argue that communism isn’t slavery, but if we were to reduce the rights/freedoms of white libs to the level of people living under Stalin or Mao, of course libs would scream ‘slavery’!

    At any rate, the example of Nazis notwithstanding, most racial scientists in the West were NOT associated with slavery. If anything, slavery was most resilient in parts of the world without racial science: Africa, Asia, Middle East, and parts of Latin America. And in America, the anti-slavery North was far more into racial science than the South that stuck to Scripture and tradition.

  • WR_the_realist

    This is off topic, but has anybody else noticed that Disqus has recently been woosified? Down votes of posts are no longer counted, now there’s simply a mark that at least one down vote has occurred. I suspect Amren posters aren’t too frightened to find out how many people disagree with them. We have thick skins here.

    • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

      I don’t waste my time either voting or looking at votes. I’m here to rattle people.

  • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

    “The descendants of French Canadian settlers don’t suffer racial discrimination,…”

    Oh, but they did and do, but most especially in the past. I just ordered a book about it and apparently, the Quebecois, but mostly the Acadian refugees were often employed as slaves by the British in various colonies. After this period, many made it to Louisiana and became the Cajun people. But for both the price for wishing to retain their ethnic identity has been high. Quebecois in Quebec are famous for their separatist movement which has been going on for some time now. One of the results of it is lack of jobs in the region while Anglo Canada tries to fill it with immigrants to blunt the separatist aspirations. Meanwhile, the Cajuns in Louisiana are trying hard to hold on as the Diversity machine impacts them repeatedly. The price of striving to retain your groups uniqueness or have a separate state is high, economically speaking. So perhaps it is good to say that money isn’t the measure of everything of value or even what constitutes success.

  • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

    One of the quiet little items in the Affordable Care Act is a requirement for “evidence of Diversity” for funding. I know about a woman and a black that failed their exams, sued and got their licenses.

  • BonV.Vant

    the multiethnic society is NOT working, those who are so “determined” to make it work are NOT moving to the ghetto to “enrich” it with their presence. ARE THEY?

    • JohnEngelman

      Haven’t you heard of gentrification? Young, well educated, affluent young professionals move into deteriorated neighborhoods, and restore nineteenth town houses. During the 1920′s even Georgetown in Washington, DC was a poor and largely black neighborhood. Now it is one of the most prestigious neighborhoods in the United States.

      • LACountyRedneck

        We’re importing millions of 3rd world garbage.

      • dd121

        Even the formerly depressed areas that are reclaimed by rich, smart whites are still deeply segregated. They don’t invite the guy down the street in a hood over for fondue.

  • BonV.Vant

    “social democracy”–oh, you mean the “knock out game”? or perhaps you mean the home invasions, perhaps you mean the way the justice department does not prosecute blacks who commit violent crimes against whites. YEs, social democracy is a wonderful thing, more helpings of this will surely solidify the resolve of whites to have their open territories.

    • JohnEngelman

      I mean Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Germany. Economies in those countries have responded better to the Great Recession than the United States has.

      Meanwhile, the rate of violent crime, and with it the rate of black violent crime in the United States has declined since 1991.

  • Whiteplight sees the Emperor N

    Just because race consciousness is declining doesn’t mean that the utopian social state they idealize will happen or work. It can only be done as we see in Europe, by force of punitive laws and that will not last long before a backlash occurs as we are seeing now. No utopian social state has succeeded, and is even less likely in a multi-ethnic state. As these young idealists grow older, more educated and experienced they will realize it as most people do as they age. They may even long for the freedom they will begin to perceive their forefathers once had. But no such socially controlled state will last very long.

    • JohnEngelman

      Social Democracy makes no claims to be “Utopian.” Nevertheless, the Social Democratic economies of Scandinavia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Germany have responded better to the Great Recession than the United States.

      Of course, they benefit from having a higher percentage of whites in their population than we do. I acknowledge that that is a factor.

  • Magician

    Today, while I was waiting in line to pay for my item and I saw the cover of the current Vanity fair issue and there it is once again for the 5 billionth time!! A beautiful white woman in the arms of a black man

    I am telling you, I see more than 10 black men for every one black woman in the mainstream media!!

    • Magician

      I am very sure all black women are so happy every time they see a man of their own race holding a white girl in their arms in the mainstream media

      • dd121

        Feminism also shares the blame. It relentlessly tries to feminize men but the women then aren’t attracted to men when become feminized. I think a lot of them are attracted by blacks who treat them as bitches and ho’s. Paradoxical, isn’t it.

    • Romulus

      This particular Bantu/groid was tapped to desecrate the memory of the Norse God, Heimdall in the Thor movies that were orchestrated by Stan-(Lee) Martin LIEBER.
      ONE of the main writers for the new Thor comic books is Michael j. Strazynski.
      Guess which tribe they belong to!

  • Jon

    Yes that is a lot to digest and myth parents tell their kids or should i say lie that u can be what ever u want to be but if America falls then the majority of mexicans and blacks will fall further down the social status because of the society they live in. The settlers who came here were very hard working and for a long time trained their youth to be skilled craftsmen when they turned 14 or they became farmers. Culture and productivity is n the genes for sure and their is no denying it.

    • dd121

      This article really puts an exclamation point on the point that economic success is mostly about IQ. From IQ flows the education that positions you for economic success. AA can pervert that to an extent but smart people know that the black doctor isn’t all that smart and they’ll avoid his care.

  • WR_the_realist

    Socialism will not work in a multiracial country. It always devolves into a racial spoils system in such cases. The last thing I want to do is give the vermin in congress even more control over the country than they already have. Socialism is popular among young people because they have been indoctrinated by our public schools. The two biggest instigators of mass murder in the 20th century: national socialism (the runner up) and international socialism (the winner).

  • Magician

    Photo of East Asian countries taken by NASA at night. We can see that China and South Korea are having a blast every night but South Korea’s twin brother goes to zzz

  • Teresa Rincon

    Do people here think sexual orientation is equally as hardwired as racial differences?