Neanderthals Interbred for Longer with East Asian Humans, DNA Reveals

Richard Gray, Daily Mail, February 13, 2015

They are largely thought to have roamed the freezing landscapes of Europe during the last ice age, but it seems Neanderthals may have spread far further east and lived alongside modern humans there for longer than was previously thought.

Two new pieces of research have suggested that the ancestors of modern East Asians may have interbred with the now extinct Neanderthals far more than they did in Europe.

Analysis of the traces of Neanderthal DNA found in the genomes of modern humans has shown that people in East Asia carry between 15 to 30 per cent more of their DNA than Europeans.

Scientists now say there appears to be two distinct occasions when Neanderthal mixed with modern humans in East Asia compared to just one occasion in Europe.

This suggests that Neanderthals were able to spread further towards East Asia than was previously thought.

Almost all of the remains of Neanderthals have been found in southern Europe and western Asia.

They were not thought to have gone much further east than the Altai Mountains in central Asia, on the borders of what are now Russia, Mongolia and Kazakhstan.

But the new findings have raised the prospect that Neanderthals lived in the east of the continent and may have clung on there for longer than their European relatives, who died out around 30,000 years ago–we have just yet to find the archaeological evidence.

Professor Joshua Akey, a geneticist at the University of Washington who led one of two new studies, said: ‘The history of admixture between modern humans and Neanderthals is most likely more complex than previously thought.’

The research was conducted by two separate teams working at the University of Washington and the University of California, Los Angeles.

Professor Akey and his colleague Benjamin Vernot analysed distinctive patterns in the DNA of 379 modern Europeans and 286 modern East Asians from China and Japan.

Using computer models they attempted to simulate how the mixtures of Neanderthal DNA seen in the European and East Asian genomes could have occurred

They concluded that one theory–that modern Europeans interbred more with populations from Africa to water down the Neanderthal DNA they carried–was unlikely.

Instead they found it was more likely that ancestors of the East Asian populations had bred with Neanderthals more than once.

Mr Vernot said: ‘One thing that complicates these analyses is the fact that humans have been constantly migrating throughout their history–this makes it hard to say exactly where interactions with Neanderthals occurred.

‘It’s possible, for example, that all of the interbreeding with Neanderthals occurred in the Middle East, before the ancestors of modern non-Africans spread out across Eurasia.

‘In the model from the paper, the ancestors of all non-Africans interbred with Neanderthals, and then split up into multiple groups that would later become Europeans, East Asians.

‘Shortly after they split up, the ancestors of East Asians interbred with Neanderthals just a little bit more.

‘The important thing is that we show that we didn’t just meet Neanderthals once in our history–it looks like we met them multiple times.

‘But as we are able to look at individuals from more and more populations, we’ll hopefully get a better idea of where our ancestors have been, and where they may have interacted with Neanderthals.’

Previous research has led to theories that modern humans first interbred with Neanderthals as they migrated through the Middle East 55,000 years ago before they then moved further into Europe and Asia.

The evidence that a second mixing between the two species took place among East Asian populations implies that this occurred sometime later and further East than the first interbreeding event.

Previous research has led to theories that modern humans first interbred with Neantherthals as they migrated through the Middle East 55,000 years ago before they then moved further into Europe and Asia.

The evidence that a second mixing between the two species took place among East Asian populations implies that this occurred sometime later and further East than the first interbreeding event.

Professor Akey says it is also possible that European ancestors bred with another as yet undiscovered species of ancient human that led to the Neanderthal DNA being watered down.

However the second study conducted by Dr Kirk Lohmueller, an evolutionary geneticist at the UCLA, used similar computer models and found that the most likely explanation was that Neanderthals interbred with humans multiple times in Asia.

Dr Lohmueller said: ‘It’s very hard to put these findings into spatial context.

‘The key idea is that there would have to have been some additional interbreeding events involving East Asians, but not Europeans.

‘These interbreeding events could have been directly between Neanderthals and East Asians, maybe in some other indirect way.’

Dr Simon Underdown, an athropologist at Oxford Brookes University, said the findings should profoundly change our view of what Neanderthals were like.

He said: ‘It strongly suggests that rather than a one off interbreeding event between humans and Neanderthals around 60,000 years ago there must have been multiple occurrences of humans and Neanderthals having sex and producing offspring.

‘This in turn suggests that the boundaries between humans and Neanderthals as different species are increasingly becoming blurred almost to the point of being non-existent.

‘This of course has huge significant for those who wrongly claim the neanderthals were less intelligent, didn’t have symbolism and couldn’t speak.

‘We can no longer think of Homo sapiens as the ‘top dog’ who replaced the more primitive hominin species it encountered on the long trip out of Africa.

‘Rather we should think of our direct ancestors as one member of a diverse genus that interbred with other members of Homo multiple times and in multiple locations.’

Professor Chris Stringer, one of the world’s leading anthropologists at the Natural History Museum in London, added that our view of Neanderthals had perhaps wrongly become too ‘Eurocentric’.

He said: ‘The common view is that Neanderthals were ‘European’, because that is where the original and the most famous remains of this species have been discovered.

‘But we have known since the 1930s that they were in Asia too, and we now have their fossils from sites in countries like Israel, Syria, Iraq and Uzbekistan.

‘More fragmentary remains have recently been studied in Siberia, and the highest quality Neanderthal genome is from Denisova Cave in the Altai.

‘While there have been claims that Neanderthals lingered longest in places like Gibraltar, we only have a poor fix on the dating of their disappearance further East.

‘So it is certainly quite possible that there was further interbreeding with late Neanderthals as modern humans traversed Asia, although we still lack decent fossil evidence from many regions, particularly in southern Asia.’

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  • JohnEngelman

    As long as Neanderthals survived as a subspecies it is reasonable to assume that some interbreeding occurred with the modern humans who had more recently migrated from Africa.

    • Given the willingness of human men to have sex with almost anything, it is far beyond “reasonable” to assume it. I was betting on exactly this having happened, simply based on comparative anatomy, long before any DNA evidence was published.

      • Alucard_the_last

        I wish you were wrong but every one of my trips to Walmart, I am ‘blessed’ to see white women who are clearly into bestiality and it sickens me.

      • LHathaway

        I believe ‘Aryan Nations’ believe people of color (or perhaps just blacks) are the result of people (whites, perhaps) breeding with animals. To them, this probably just explains the origin of blacks. Everyone is obsessed with Blacks, especially blacks themselves. Believe it or not, I’m willing to entertain that theory. It might possibly make more sense if humanity spawned somewhere else – like a type of battlestar gallactica human origins story (or at least if ancient humans had access to advanced technology, somehow). I’m not saying I believe that theory or am trying to promote it, or the ‘Aryan Nations’, but I am willing to entertain the idea. lol, maybe I should google them, see if they have any other interesting (hopefully human or humane) ideas.

        • Alucard_the_last

          I just watched a documentary about the missing Michael Rockefeller and was amazed on how the savages of New Guinea look and act like lower primates. How people can think that these creatures are human is beyond me. It figures they are the least developed ‘civilization’ in the entire SE Asia,

          • LHathaway

            so, since whites interbred with them, we are beneath human? What interesting is that for all of our lives these people have been held up as superior to us. This will be even more true in our countries after they immigrate here. There likely isn’t a person of color on this earth, even one’s living hundreds of miles from the nearest white person, who does not believe they are morally superior to greedy, exploitative, oppressive, racist whites. You do a great job proving them wrong. Congratulations.

          • Alucard_the_last

            You should like a true asshole. Congratulations.

          • Operant_Conditioner

            Neanderthals had larger brains, and it is believed that this is a contributing reason for the superior intelligence of whites and asians over blacks.

          • Vanitas

            Not to mention our dashing good looks. Is that Mr. Skinner? Operant conditioning one of the main vectors of attack on whites, via media.

          • Operant_Conditioner

            The avatar would be Mr. Huxley. The username was chosen purely in the spirit of irony and sarcasm, considering that our present state of affairs has caused many, including myself, to become very cynical. 😉

          • sddasasd

            Neanderthals actually had identical brain sizes to cro-magnons (the ancient ancestors of modern europeans) and humans worldwide tens of thousand of years ago (including in africa and australia.) The only people who believe it are racialists with autistic understandings of human evolution and history who like to fetishize a group of people diverged from us for hundreds of thousands of years.

          • sddasasd

            I’m amazed you could be aware of research on neanderthals and such, watch that documentary and make that remark without noticing how closely papuans resemble neanderthals, a people separated from the rest of humanity for hundreds of thousands of years and were in ways more physically distinct from europeans than are modern africans, but you seem to be on board with fetishizing those people, so I shouldn’t be too surprised at the “huhuhuh, lol, they look like monkeys, JUST LIKE NEGROS AKA HOMO ERECTUS!!! LOL”

        • Sick of it

          Read the book of Genesis.

        • Carlos Geary

          Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens have the same number of chromozomes (46), so the could breed. In order to mix with another species, like human beings and animals, you have to share the same number of chromozomes, among other things. Africans are not the result of mixing with animals. Once, a person told me that blacks were the result of mixing of human beings and chimps. I asked why. The response was because they look like chimps. My response was, “we all , black or white, look like chimps, because we are also primates”. If you visit the South American Amazon jungle, you will find monkeys that look like northern europeans, those monkeys the red bald aukari, cajalco is the scientific name, are, also, called “british monkeys” by the natives.. You can google “red bald aukari”,
          Human beings have 46 chromozomes, chimps, gorilas, gibbons, etc have 48 chromozomes, mixing is almost imposible.

      • JohnEngelman

        The genetic differences between Neanderthals and modern humans were greater than the genetic differences between all of the existing races. Until Neanderthal DNA was found in the human genome I thought Neanderthals and modern humans may have been incapable of producing fertile offspring.

      • Ken Dometriosis .

        Speak for yourself.

        • Sorry sir, but when I was a university undergrad, I was banging like a screen door in a hurricane. I am terribly sorry that you missed out on that sort of thing. On the other hand, it was because my high school girlfriend had broken up with me, and 31 years later I still haven’t gotten over that.

          I remember clear as day when I met Miss Chin. It was at a volleyball game, and I couldn’t stop looking at her. She finally stopped and said, “What are you going to do, kiss me?” I did, right on the spot, to cheers. It might as well have been a “Hollywood kiss”. She explained later on that she was just there to play volleyball, and had never been kissed before. We dated (screwed like crazed weasels) for the next two years until she transferred to another university.

          That was a very nice era in my life, so yes, I am speaking for myself. I hope your mileage did not substantially vary. Love can produce completely tragic emotional consequences, but it certainly is a whole lot of fun.

          If you are not in love, you are wasting your damned time.

          • meanqueen

            I enjoy your posts – would love to meet you someday! (But not for banging screen doors. I’m happily married!)

      • Gunter Mabuse

        Human women still have sex with “democrat” [that’s a dog whistle, for anyone who wants to listen] males. Not a surprise they had sex with Neanderthals.

      • FransSusan

        That’s just not true of all human men, not in all races. Most are not willing to have sex with ‘almost anything.’ The black race is, however.

    • LHathaway

      As long as lying to us is job one, we can expect to hear more and more about these ‘neanderthals’. Backwards creatures who may have interbred with us. What do we know? Neanderthals had bigger brains than us. We may have some Neanderthal DNA now. Neanderthal’s only lived in Europe. Neanderthals are now completely extinct. I enjoy reading more and more about these ‘Neanderthals’.

      • Anna Tree

        This is how science works LHathaway: hypothesis and theories, arguments and rebuttals.

        I, for one, am happy of my Neanderthal genes and the quantity we got. We may have lost a few iq points by not mixing with them again, like the North East Asians did, but we got the creativity in exchange, and it is obviously more important. Maybe indeed we got it from other hominins, the future will tell us.

        • Sick of it

          We probably lost IQ points from mixing with them.

          • JohnEngelman

            Yes, but we got out IQ points back by evolving in cold climates, and by the evolutionary pressures of agriculture and civilization.

          • Someone certainly evolved to live in cold climates.

          • Ken Dometriosis .

            No, it is racial and genetics. The white race has an ave IQ of 105 while the Chinese and negroids IQs are in the 50-60 IQ range. Cro Magnon man was the precursor to the white race.

          • Anna Tree

            You mean the other hominins? Because if I am correct, you don’t mean the Neanderthals, as those who didn’t mix with them, are still 30 IQ points behind us.

          • ghettovalley

            Very interesting. It does make sense that the ancestors of blacks mixed heavily with now extinct groups of early humans. Africa does have extremely diverse wildlife, so there were likely numerous groups of archaic humans in the area at the time. And we all know the notoriously low standards of black men when it comes to sex. They will sleep with just about anything. It does all certainly seem to add up.

          • Anna Tree

            We all mixed with extinct groups of early humans and logically those groups had different characteristics and genes, and so races have differences depending with whom they mated.

            A new hominin in Taiwan was just discovered, the Penghu, who lived 100’000 years ago. Were they still alive when the first wave of Homo Sapiens some 60’000 years ago, the ancestors of the Australoids (Indonesians, Australian arborigenes and many Filipinos etc) left Africa? If yes, did they mate?

            So this illustration needs to be update to show more branches beside the Denisovans and Neanderthals like the Red Deer cave, another hominin some Asian headed Cro-magnons mated with, but it does show what I explained earlier regarding the Homo Sapiens who stayed in Africa: shown as a small branch in the extreme right.

          • They lived a very long time in very harsh climates. They couldn’t have been stupid.

          • Sick of it

            All non-human species were stupid. Otherwise, why did we come out on top? We created weapons they could not.

        • LHathaway

          Obviously I have less faith than you in ‘science’.

        • JohnEngelman

          Most of the Neanderthal genes were useless or harmful, so we lost those. The genes our ancestors kept were genes that enabled them to live in cold climates, those that helped them adjust to different seasons, and resistance to diseases in Europe and Asia.

          • Anna Tree

            Europeans have in average 4% Neanderthals DNA, if North East Asians have 15 to 30% more than us, then that means they have maybe an average of 4.6 to 5.3% Neanderthals DNA. This way of explaining puts things in proportion, doesn’t it?

            Now Europeans are much more diverse, I wonder who in Europe got more and who got less. Then we may get more light about if those Neanderthals genes are important…

          • Sick of it

            “This could be show a north-south geographical difference in Neanderthal ancestry, but later population movements in Europe probably masked a significant part of the Upper Paleolithic gene pool. However, the persistence through time of extra Neanderthal ancestry in southern Europe needs further study.”

            www abroadintheyard com/people-from-tuscany-most-similar-neanderthals/

            Site using older data.

          • Raymond Kidwell

            The article doesn’t mention that Eastern Neanderthals were part of a larger population base that had less genetic drift and were more similar to regular humans- thus higher fertility between matings.

          • Anna Tree

            The author may be right about Northern/Southern Europeans and their Neanderthal admixture, but he was wrong in many points he made.

            I think there may be other hominins we Europeans mixed with, who may have given our lighter skin/hair/eyes, especially to the Nordic whites.

        • sddasasd

          I’m not sure if you read the article, but it said asians have far more neanderthal ancestry than we do, but I won’t stop you and your retarded fantasies of fetishizing neanderthal ancestry and how it could perfectly explain modern race differences.

      • Raymond Kidwell

        Just to counter some assumptions: average brain size for human beings has been decreasing for thousands of years (even relative to body weight). Human beings have been de-evolving. Modern Europeans are essentiall descendants of cro-mangnon who himself had a larger brain than neanderthal. Likewise neanderthals brain was large but structured in a rather primitive way. Likewise natural selection would have mostly removed useless genes and kept useful ones. Most neanderthal genes in modern humans relate to disease resistance and such, rather than phenotype.

    • Gunter Mabuse

      Do you think that the Neanderthal genes cause Autism? Did neanderthals breed with the Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese Asians? Would the neanderthal genome, having been found only in Korean and Vietnamese Asians, explain the lack of politeness amongst those Asians, compared to the great politeness of both the Japanese and Chinese Asians? Koreans and Vietnamese are much more aggressive in social gatherings than either the Japanese or Chinese.

      • ghettovalley

        The idea of a link between Neanderthal genes and autism is an interesting thought. I wonder if some of their genes do make us any more or less susceptible to any mental or psychological disorders. I wonder how common these types of problems were in their own population. It would be fascinating to know more about their mental health and cognitive ability, whether or not they suffered from the same disorders that we do, formed committed relationships, or if they ever committed suicide. It doesn’t seem likely that we could ever possibly know the truth, however.

      • SeaMonkey Browser

        Hmong – an ethnic group originally from China, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Southeast Asia

        Were you rejected by a Korean woman or something? Or is a woman you find attractive in a relationship with a Korean person? Ever heard of Unit 731 experiments?

        • Gunter Mabuse

          I was not making an argument based on facts. I was making an argument based on sarcasm, and sarcasm alone. Ever heard of sarcasm? Chances are you haven’t. Allow me to quote the great Frank Zappa when I say…”Pheeeeewwwwwww.”

  • FinnShane

    Apparently the Neanderthal big nose gene was completely weeded out then.

    • Their neanderthal traits are actually different from ours. For instance, they often have concave incisors, which other modern humans do not. The fact that different physical Neanderthal traits have persisted in the two groups suggests that the interbreeding did occur at different times, rather than just all at once. A big nose is a cold-weather adaptation (think: “heat-exchanger” for air entering and leaving the lungs), but so is the relatively longer torso and shorter arms and legs many East Asians possess compared with Europeans (the reduced surface area of the body as a whole, relative to its volume conserves heat).

      • Augustus3709

        You just made me look at my hand.

    • Gunter Mabuse

      One of the funniest things I ever read in my life was a bit about Neanderthals by Jack Handey in one of his “Deep Thoughts” quotes, in National Lampoon magazine. It was along the lines of a bunch of Neanderthal kids building a snowman. They had built the snowman, but then one of the kids reminded everyone that they had forgot the big, hunky eyebrows on the snowman. Then, they remembered that they all had those big, hunky eyebrows, and were embarrassed and gave up.

  • Since I am pro-White and pro-Asian, I might have a secret pro-Neanderthal sentiment!

    • I suspect all the regulars here are pro-Neanderthal by now. I’ve had a very close friend since high school, and he’s built almost exactly like a gorilla. He’s all white, but built like a gorilla. He’s a software engineer, and very bright, but I would love to know how much Neanderthal DNA he has.

      Next in the news, the $PLC denounces “Neanderthal-Supremacism”, calls press conference.

      • Whoever runs the SPLC, they sure aren’t our friends.

        • One comes far closer to the truth when one spells that with a “dollar sign” and not the “letter S”.

          • John Smith

            Morris Dees and his kosher buddy, J.R. Levin, started it as a money-raising gimmick.

        • Paleoconn

          We know who runs that outfit, and the correct spelling is $PLC.

      • archer

        The Neanderthal’s also had heavier bones that made them much stronger on average than modern humans.

        • Their muscles would also naturally leave scars where they are attached to those bones. With genetically “uncontaminated” humans – i.e. African blacks – those are in different places.

        • Gunter Mabuse

          Blacks have heavier bones than white, one reason they can’t swim very well.

    • Korean guy

      Even if there is nobody pro-Asian on AmRen I will still respect and love AmRen just as much as I do now.

      I do not come here to read compliments about East Asia or South Korea.

      I came to Quebec City, Canada in May 2014 to learn French, but I am not interested in changing Quebec City’s culture and traditions. I am loving the history, culture and traditions here. I love the historical factors that shaped the Quebec City today. I am not one bit interested in Quebec City abandoning its traditionally French culture and becoming more multicultural.

      I thought you would be an alternate account of John Engelman but realized you are not, because if you truly were your login would be “Chinese Jewish Nationalist Maiden”

      If there is any question here about East Asia, I will alway answer to my best knowledge.

      There were a couple of professional sport teams in the province of Quebec but they moved to USA. Those were the Montreal Expos (MLB) and Quebec City Nordiques (NHL) I would love to see Quebec receiving another chance to have those teams again.

      J’adore le Ville de Quebec tres tres bien!!

    • sddasasd

      I’m totally onboard- let’s celebrate a people who were genetically diverged from eurasians for hundreds of thousands of years and most closely resembled papua new guineans and australian aborigines!

  • Itooktheredpill

    3.1% Neanderthal checking in.

    • GeneticsareDestiny

      Wow, that’s a lot! I’m 2.9%.

      • Itooktheredpill

        Ya it puts me in the 96th percentile. What testing service did you use 23andme?

        • GeneticsareDestiny

          Yes, I did. It put me in the 81st percentile.

    • meanqueen

      What?? I did FTDNA and I didn’t see any indication of Neanderthal percentages. Are you guys joking? Or is this for real?

      • Itooktheredpill

        23andme which is another DNA/genetics testing service does provide it. I guess some do and some don’t. I would recommend it used to be 300$ now its only 100$.

        Also 100% white for the win

  • Fed Up

    Fair to say, the modern descendants of Neanderthals are STILL interbreeding with real Humans.

  • Magician

    Well East Asians claim they are basically hairless compared to whites….

    • IstvanIN

      From Wikipedia: Anthropologist Joseph Deniker said that the very hairy peoples are the Ainus, Iranians, Australian aborigines (Arnhem Land being less hairy), Toda, Dravidians and Melanesians while Deniker said the American Indian, San, east Asian people that includes Chinese who are from China mainland, Mongol and Malay people the most are glabrous (not hairy).
      Interesting.

  • Alucard_the_last

    The much less developed, the homo erectus, clearly is alive and well commoningly know as a negro. Do a google image search and you’ll see it plain as day.

  • dd121

    Time to check out these theories in the Hot Tub Time Machine.

  • Reynardine

    Neanderthal pride represent!

    *makes ridiculous hand signs*

  • Tim_in_Indiana

    He said: ‘It strongly suggests that rather than a one off interbreeding event between humans and Neanderthals around 60,000 years ago there must have been multiple occurrences of humans and Neanderthals having sex and producing offspring.

    ‘This of course has huge significant for those who wrongly claim the neanderthals were less intelligent, didn’t have symbolism and couldn’t speak.

    I’m not sure how this follows. It’s also possible that the Neanderthals raped Homo Sapiens during multiple occurrences, as one writer theorizes.

    • Sick of it

      Not sure how things went in the East, but I’m rather sure our ancestors killed the males and mated with the female Neanderthals. And some of our ancestors probably killed all Neanderthals they came across. We didn’t play nice back then.

      • Tim_in_Indiana

        According to the author I cite, the Neanderthals were much more powerfully built than Homo Sapiens, quite intelligent, and easily capable of handling themselves in any confrontation with our own ancestors.

        • Anna Tree

          If rape it was, then logically it is the (male) survivors who did the rape. So I think Sick of it maybe be more correct than you. Don’t forget that maybe the Homo Sapiens didn’t look like us but maybe looked more like the descendants of those Homo Sapiens who stayed in Africa.

          • The human population density in those days must have been very low, so there would be no mass graves. There is also the likelihood that people chronically short of food would have eaten the defeated and recycled the bones into tools.

            Rape also isn’t really necessary to postulate. A woman who is lost for a month would naturally sleep with a Neanderthal guy who got her something to eat. Eurasian men were physically weaker than Neanderthals, but Neanderthals also took care of their injured. We see that in the fossil record, in which skeletons have shown bone regrowth from horrific injuries. Suppose the Neanderthals were out hunting and picked up some badly-hurt stranger and brought him home. He might end up a cripple after “recovering” the best conditions allowed, and spend time in the cave, working with their women. One of them might decide “Gruk looks a bit weak and ugly, but he works, and he has been nice to me, so…”

            “He doesn’t eat much mom, but he looks so skinny!”

            We will never know.

          • Albert

            Well, evidence has been found of cannibalism among some neanderthal groups. If it were cannibalism of a darker nature, some of them may not have been so nice.

          • Not so “nice” compared with rocket artillery?

        • Who Me?

          Are you perhaps thinking of Jean Auel who wrote the “Earth’s Children” series? I know they were novels, but many of the things of which she wrote could have been discovered the way she presented them, although naturally not all of them by one person or even one time in history or in one place. She did tons of research in the writing of her novels and the one or maybe two movies that attempted to tell the story was not at all well done or even insightful as to the intent of the storyline. (Not to mention featured Darryl Hanna–Yuk!)
          As far as I know, she was the only author that ever put forth the Neanderthal man raped Human woman theory. From her descriptions, that would have been far more physically likely. Even though Neanderthals were shorter, they were far more muscular, even the women, than the Cro-Magnons.

        • Sick of it

          And yet they disappeared and we are all over the world. More liberal savage worshiping nonsense.

          • Grand Vizier

            This is about numbers. While the HS(homo Sapiens Sapiens) started to keep animals and grow edible plants, the NT(Neanderthal) continued hunting and collecting.

            If a certain area could feed a group of 25 of hunter-collectors, that same area could feed a group of 100 farmers.

            While the NT despised farming, the HS thought it ,ade life easier.

            So we have the situation that an area that used to support 25 NT and 25 HS now supported 25 NT but 100 HS.

            That led to two things, the smaller group would be assimililated into the larger group over time, and if there ever was a fight, the 25 NTs would have to fight 100 HS. The result is given, if if the average NT killed three HS before being killed, the HS would win by the numbers.

            If a man is attacked by a pack of wolves, and the wolves kills him, it is not due to the intelligence of the wolves.

          • Sick of it

            We started farming long after the Neanderthals disappeared by all accounts.

          • Grand Vizier

            I consider the keeping of animals farming, and surely HS has kept animals for more than 50 000 years.

            I wrote: ” This is about numbers. While the HS(homo Sapiens Sapiens) started to keep animals and grow edible plants, the NT(Neanderthal) continued hunting and collecting.”

      • corvinus

        We have a historically-documented model in the European invasion of the Americas.

    • Albert

      I’m curious to know if interbreeding was still possible between us when we met them in Europe. They were there for roughly 200,000 yrs before us.

  • NorthernWind

    This study is racist. How can it be that the Neanderthal admixture is highest in “East Asians” than in “Europeans” when they are social constructs based on minor aesthetic differences? Clearly these scientists are basing their research on archaic understandings of humanity… we now know that there is no such thing as race.
    /social justice science (where nothing is certain… by design)

    • Weisheit77

      That made my day! lol

  • Rhialto

    The study may be of some paleontological importance , but what is much more important are the characteristics of the extant human types. Since there are an unlimited number of specimens to study, all that is required is unbiased scientific (non-Liberal) experiment and observation.

  • The Dude

    Well, at least this settles the question of whether it was the Neanderthals who gave us blonde hair.

    • Sick of it

      Traits associated with the white man came from white people. They came from human beings.

      • The Dude

        They came from white people, but those white people with the traits typical of them today must’ve come from somewhere too. To take one example, colored eyes only appeared around 9,000 years.

        “Human beings” is a layman’s term. There was more than one species of humans, and these species were able to interbreed successfully. Ours, the Homo sapiens, interbred with other species, so it’s not that implausible that it has kept some of its traits, physical or other.

        • Sick of it

          It’s hard to have a discussion like this with a non-believer. God made us. He made those other creatures too, but they were beasts. Beasts capable of a certain degree of thought (ala gorillas and chimps), but certainly not human. When you look at the vast differences between our species and the others, it makes sense. When you see the lack of a link between species, it all makes sense. When you see what we can create versus the descendants of lesser beings, it all makes sense. Oh and calling those other species a form of human is relatively new. Food for thought.

  • KenelmDigby

    Neanderthals were a big, heavy, robust type of hominid, as their skeletal remains attest.
    East Asians tend to be small and gracile with lightly built frames.

    From that admittedly unscientific point of view I would have thought that northern Europeans were more Neandertal-like.

  • voxvot

    The evaluation of Neanderthals as a bucolic, benign, prehistoric hippy, has no basis whatsoever in deductive logic based on physiognomy, and is, in fact, simply the standard liberal trope that endows the primitive (Amerindians?Aboriginals) with positive (but nebulous) qualities connected to “closeness to nature” and “purity”.

    The liberals promote a positive image of “outsider” virtues as a devious way of…

    A. Condemning the elite of their own culture, whom they wish to replace as the elite, for lacking these virtues.

    B. Affirming through awareness that they themselves possess these virtues.

    Danny Vendramini’s work shows that, based on physiognomy, the Neanderthal was a savage, powerful, carnivorous and powerful brute, of low intelligence compared to modern humans.

    We are assuming here that higher Eurasian intelligence correlates with a presence of Neanderthal genes, and that therefore there is a causal relationship between NT genes and higher intelligence.

    My contention is that the relationship is a non-causal correlate. It was the intense, violent and protracted competition between Neanderthals and Eurasian humans that led, by selection, to higher Eurasian intelligence. Neanderthals were vanquished through technology, the atlatl and dart missile system, innovation, sybiotic relationship with dogs to guard against the nocturnal Neanderthal hunters, and that these adaptions selected for higher intelligence. The Neanderthal genetic presence is not significant in any meaningful way; it is simply evidence of protracted contact and is probably the product of inter-species rape.

    • Sick of it

      It’s funny that the higher IQ Asians tend to have lighter skin and features more like ours. Obviously that must be a coincidence.

      • Ultimate187

        Caucasoid features used to be much more prevalent in East Asians, but over centuries it was selected out. They seem to be making a comeback in their society though.

        • Sick of it

          Yes and no. I’ve read that during the cultural revolution in China, people who looked too western were sentenced to die. It was an unnatural means of changing the genetics of the entire population.

        • Batterytrain

          How can there be Caucasoid features in East Asians and not be Caucasoid? This is confusing to me, I understand that when you mix a mongoloid and a Australoid, you get someone that superficially looks Caucasoid.

  • Ken Dometriosis .

    if one looks at Asian and sub-Saharan negroids skull structures, one can tell that it is most likely a fact and not a theory. The ONLY reason the chinese had any developements was due to a white influence as red-haired skeletons have been unearthed there pre-dating their so-called achievements.

    • Ultimate187

      I don’t think so. Given how ancient China had a definite civilization when Europe was still in the dark ages goes against that claim. How could a place with a small amount of white influence (assuming that’s even true), been noticeably more advanced than a place with a lot of white influence?

    • They had to develop an organized, very structured civilization, due to the Yellow River silting up and overflowing its banks. At various times, it has flowed into the sea to the north or the south of the Shandong Peninsula. When it shifted its course, the flooding can only be imagined (look at a map). I’ve been there, and that land is as flat as a billiard table. The water would go absolutely everywhere. I suspect that the silt produced very fertile farmland but also instilled in the Chinese the need for a strong central government.

    • sddasasd

      I really can’t get enough of the insane, functionally retarded theorizing in this thread about these results, but this is to be expected with any discussion over neanderthal ancestry in white racialist circles. Putting aside the comical “the ch*nks owe everything they have to the nordic aryan tocharian gods from 2,000 years ago”, you actually read this and took this as meaning the extra neanderthal ancestry came from the tocharians? Even though…. this is saying asian neanderthal ancestry is far, far higher in east asians than in europeans? You actually interpreted it this way?

      Has anyone ever said you might have aspergers?

  • slobotnavich

    Well, given the substantially higher IQs of East Asians over other racial groups it would seem reasonable to assume that Neanderthals were pretty smart.

    • FransSusan

      Average east Asian IQs are slightly higher not substantially higher than average white IQ. Asian IQ is substantially higher than average negro IQ, however. Ashkenazi IQ is substantially higher than average Asian IQ. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest IQ.

      • slobotnavich

        Well, 7-9 points is fairly substantial I would think, as is their significant over-representation in grad schools. Of course, much of this due to their somewhat greater focus and strong work ethic. When Admiral Peary kicked open the gates of Tokyo Bay in 1854 (56?) Japan was a primitive, feudal, and early iron-age society. Just forty years later at the Straits of Tsushima naval battle they annihilated the entire Russian Tsarist fleet. Determined little devils…….

        • FransSusan

          Determination doesn’t equate to higher IQ.

          • slobotnavich

            No, but it does relate to a higher probability of success in any endeavor. I’m one of the few examples of a highly slothful but nonetheless successful individual.

          • FransSusan

            No doubt about it.

        • sddasasd

          Their IQ’s are nowhere near 7-9 points higher than ours.

          • slobotnavich

            Like it or not, and however much white supremacists may squirm at the idea, Northeast Asians in fact have average IQs which are substantially higher than those of Euro-Caucasians, on the order of 7-9 points higher.

          • FransSusan

            Any intelligent person has no problem with others who have a higher IQ. I don’t know why you think that would make anyone squirm. Asians are about 5 points higher on the IQ scale than AVERAGE white IQ. It’s Ashkenazi Jews (who are also white) that have an IQ about 15 points above average whites. There are more genius IQs in the white race than any other.

          • sddasasd

            Their IQ’s are not 105 points higher than ours, collectively, they’re only slightly higher. It’s likely that Japan, Korea and Taiwan are 101-103, but then you have to factor in China’s immense rural population. The only places where 105-109 would be accurate are places like Hong Kong and singapore.

          • FransSusan

            sd, I didn’t say 105 points higher, FIVE points higher than average whites. That’s slightly higher.

          • sddasasd

            Yeah, I know you didn’t say that, and I didn’t mean to say 105 points higher- that was a clear grammar error on my part. But 105 isn’t really slightly higher either, their IQ’s are more likely what I outlined in the past.

          • slobotnavich

            That’s true enough, though those with the very highest IQ’s are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi Jews (whites last I heard), which doubtless causes the neo-Nazis of the world to squirm with indignation. Why this would cause anybody (outside EEOC) great distress continues to elude me.

          • sddasasd

            I’m not a “white supremacist”, but I don’t buy the idea their IQ’s are substantially higher, and especially that high- I’ve heard 107 before, but 109? Nearly as high as ashkenazi jews? (which is 110, and not 115 or more as many have believed.) The asian-american (who number under 10 million and are a drop in the bucket compared to their homeland numbers, yet this doesn’t stop people from acting like their tiny diaspora populations are truly representative) average in the US alone is 105-106, what in god’s name gives you the idea their home countries, especially China with it’s rural peasant population in the hundreds of millions is remotely that high?

            There is no evidence to suggest a figure as absurdly high as that, not even Rushton and Lynn (who, I should add, were largely charlatans and asiaphiles who likely had undiagnosed aspergers) argued for that. It’s come out a lot in recent years how incredibly rampant cheating is in China, Korea, Taiwan etc. which really calls into question alot of the remarkable scores from the past.

      • Magician

        “Ashkenazi IQ is substantially higher than average Asian IQ.”

        I won’t disagree with that but, I wonder why his extremely high IQ and several billions of dollars made him end up marrying this Asian woman

        • FransSusan

          Perhaps they have a lot in common, & perhaps he’s a man of substance rather than a mindless prick who seeks mindless bimbos. I mean you can always hire a mindless bimbo for a quick boink. You don’t have to marry them. I’d think an intelligent man would quickly tire of a woman not equally intelligent.

        • Rhialto

          A Man who has high intelligence and entrepreneurial skills, often does not have great ability in dealing with women. She probably sized this nerd up as having great economic potential, and got her hooks into him. Now she is using his wealth to advance her interests like the massive importation of her race into America.

          It’s what I call the “Melanie Gates Phenomenon”, after its most successful practitioner. Ms. Gates now controls over $50 Billion, which she uses for her purposes.

          • Magician

            If I were him I would have gone for this one. Her name is Erin Heatherton and she currently works as a model for Victoria’s Secret. She is also an Ashkenazi Jew and dated Leonardio DiCaprio in the past.

            She looks white in my eyes.

  • Lord Sandwich

    Neanderthal chicks are easy and roll onto their backs for anyone with a spare roast turkey leg.

  • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

    I guess Obama has Neanderthal blood. He looks like one

  • Korean guy

    I am sure there are some of you who hope to see my response but there is not much for me to say. If there is some Neanderthal blood in me it will not make me feel all that terrible and if there happens to be less Neanderthal DNA in me than there are in people of other ethnicity I still won’t feel superior or anything.

    Yeah sure let’s say I do have some Neanderthal DNA.

  • David Ashton

    Did Cain have prominent brow ridges and was the eastern land of Nod in Asia? Who knows and who cares?

  • Poupon Marx

    I was watching some of the videos posted as niggermania dot com, and just amazed that Blecks are not considered a sub-sub species. They are set apart from the homo sapiens family as no other people, as a poople.

  • Gunter Mabuse

    They are largely thought to have roamed the urban landscapes of America during the last few decades, but it seems Negroes may have spread far further east and lived alongside modern humans there for longer than was previously thought.

  • gooberboy9999

    This might help explain why east asians seem to have higher IQs, but absolutely zero creativity, as well as other divergences between them and us.

    • sddasasd

      Wait, wait- I thought it was neanderthal ancestry that gave whites our creative edge, but now that it’s come out asians have far more neanderthal ancestry, it’s the other way around.

  • MartelsGhost

    All this says to me is that “modern” asians weren’t native to asia………………………and “modern” White Europeans were far more widespread than previously assumed………….

  • Carlos Geary

    Easy, Homo Sapiens first mixed with Neanderthals; and some of their descendants left for East Asia and mixed with Denisovans who also carried Neanderthal genes. Denisovans were hybrids of Neanderthals and an unknown hominid.

  • Fall and Decline of Man

    i have very dark brown hair and hazel-brown eyes. if i had blue eyes and blond hair would i be more clever?

  • Earl P. Holt III

    “They concluded that one theory–that modern Europeans interbred more with
    populations from Africa to water down the Neanderthal DNA they
    carried–was unlikely.”

    Probably the REVERSE: They interbred with Neanderthals to “water-down” all their African
    characteristics…nowotimsayen ?

    • meanqueen

      Earl, you are enunciating too clearly. That should be “nomasayn?”

  • Batterytrain

    Sometimes I wish modern transportation wasn’t invented, because without modern technology mixed with transportation each different tribe and race would more likely stick to the land that they came from and evolved in. Also if they wanted to go anywhere, they would have to use their feet to get there and evolve in the process of doing that, evolve and adapt to whatever land and region they would have to travel through. I think the invention of the car was some sort of a mistake, b/c now there aren’t towns, cities and city states that emphasize and mark a particular cultural ethno-racial heritage because everyone just whisks away from each other instead of trying to bond and form a common culture and community.

  • Batterytrain

    Wouldn’t the same logic apply to hominids living in harsh desert climates like in the Sahara desert or any other desert elsewhere? It’s the other extreme of a cold climate forceful evolutionary pressure….

  • sddasasd

    Most africans have neanderthal ancestry due to back migrations in africa.

  • sddasasd

    I’m not entirely sure what this post is saying- that neanderthal segments found in human populations could simply be other AMH genes from early breeding between neanderthals, specifically their dying populations? And this means “Neanderthal Aarchaic segments in common with every human population” aren’t actually…. what?

    It is not especially strange that neanderthals could have heavily mixed with asians, because proto-mongoloid peoples were quite caucasoid looking and more closely resembled neanderthals, with prominent brows, longer noses and more body hair. The ainu are a remnant population, the japanese owe their more caucasoid looking ancestry to mixing with the proto-mongoloid-like Jomon people, and amerinds often have caucasoid features due to having more in common with proto-caucasoids.

    Also, most africans have neanderthal ancestry from back migrations into africa within the last several thousand years.

    • the carter

      There was a hominid PRIOR to AMH / Neandertal /Denisovans etc..

      The longstanding observation, which the promoters of Neandertal introgression want to dispose of or circumvent, is that all these populations will OBVIOUSLY have some relic segments in common with one another (they all do) because they are all descended from a distant but common ancestor population.
      Even Black Africans share segments w/ Neandertal, but they are DIFFERENT segments than any other surviving Human population, because they almost certainly are not split from that common ancestor along the same L3 line that the rest of humanity descends from.. thus, their archaic segments will be randomly different because its a different line of descent and is affected by random selection,

      The promoters of Neandertal ingress into modern humans are notable for two things – they ONLY claim to find proof of ingress INTO AMH, but no genetic proof of any ingress INTO Neandertals has ever to my observation been claimed to have been proven by DNA. This is a huge red flag, because its pretty certain that if such populations DID survive to breed, it would be a two way street, and more heavily impact dying Neandertal genetics, not the spreading and dominant AMH genetics.

      Secondly, promoters of this theory have made claims that were highly publicized in the past as proven or factual, which fell apart completely, most notably the attempts to link Neandertal as a ancestor of EUROPEANS in particular, and going so far as to wrongly suggest that proof indicated that European restricted phenotypes are ‘from Neadertals’. This was rubbished when it was easily rooted out that the mutation in neadertal and the mutation in humans was not the same causative mutation, and thus could not have been inherited from Neanderthals.

      This is a well funded bunch, with a ton of media access to promote these claims, and each new claim gets reported with no mention or consideration of the wrong conclusions made on this topic at previous such media events.. there is a strong politically correct desire to ‘make’ neandertals a ancestral population of Europeans, however the problem is its now impossible to do that without a lot of song and dance to explain away why Europeans are not the closest population. This does not even consider the fact that if true, Europeans SHOULD be the far and away most closely related to Neadertal, because there would have been cross breeding taking place over a far longer time frame than any other population. This is also not the case, and largely ruins the claims when examined in that context.