Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?

Jessica Carew Kraft, The Atlantic, April 16, 2014

It used to be that if you went to a college-level debate tournament, the students you’d see would be bookish future lawyers from elite universities, most of them white. In matching navy blazers, they’d recite academic arguments for and against various government policies. It was tame, predictable, and, frankly, boring.

No more.

These days, an increasingly diverse group of participants has transformed debate competitions, mounting challenges to traditional form and content by incorporating personal experience, performance, and radical politics. These “alternative-style” debaters have achieved success, too, taking top honors at national collegiate tournaments over the past few years.

But this transformation has also sparked a difficult, often painful controversy for a community that prides itself on handling volatile topics.

On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.

In the final round, Ruffin and Johnson squared off against Rashid Campbell and George Lee from the University of Oklahoma, two highly accomplished African-American debaters with distinctive dreadlocks and dashikis. Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like “nigga authenticity” and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “Fuck the time!” he yelled. His partner Campbell, who won the top speaker award at the National Debate Tournament two weeks later, had been unfairly targeted by the police at the debate venue just days before, and cited this personal trauma as evidence for his case against the government’s treatment of poor African-Americans.

This year wasn’t the first time this had happened. In the 2013 championship, two men from Emporia State University, Ryan Walsh and Elijah Smith, employed a similar style and became the first African-Americans to win two national debate tournaments. Many of their arguments, based on personal memoir and rap music, completely ignored the stated resolution, and instead asserted that the framework of collegiate debate has historically privileged straight, white, middle-class students.

Tournament participants from all backgrounds say they have found some of these debate strategies offensive. Even so, the new style has received mainstream acceptance, sympathy, and awards.

Joe Leeson Schatz, Director of Speech and Debate at Binghamton University, is encouraged by the changes in debate style and community. “Finally, there’s a recognition in the academic space that the way argument has taken place in the past privileges certain types of people over others,” he said. “Arguments don’t necessarily have to be backed up by professors or written papers. They can come from lived experience.”

{snip} Aaron Hardy, who coaches debate at Northwestern University, is concerned about where the field is headed. “We end up . . . with a large percentage of debates being devoted to arguing about the rules, rather than anything substantive,” he wrote on a CEDA message board last fall.

Indeed, to prevail using the new approach, students don’t necessarily have to develop high-level research skills or marshal evidence from published scholarship. They also might not need to have the intellectual acuity required for arguing both sides of a resolution. These skills–together with a non-confrontational presentation style–are considered crucial for success in fields like law and business.

Hardy and others are also disappointed with what they perceive as a lack of civility and decorum at recent competitions, and believe that the alternative-style debaters have contributed to this environment. “Judges have been very angry, coaches have screamed and yelled. People have given profanity-laced tirades, thrown furniture, and both sides of the ideological divide have used racial slurs,” he said.

To counter this trend, Hardy and his allies want to create a “policy only” space in which traditional standards for debate will be enforced. However, this is nearly impossible to do within the two major debate associations, CEDA and the National Debate Tournament (NDT), as they are governed by participants and have few conduct enforcement mechanisms. {snip}

14 schools expressed interest in sending debaters to Hardy’s proposed alternative tournament, scheduled to occur last month. But after word got out that a group of mostly white teams from elite universities were trying to form their own league, Hardy and his supporters were widely attacked on Facebook and other online forums. Ultimately the competition didn’t happen, purportedly because of logistical issues with the hotel venue. Nonetheless, Hardy wrote in an email that a “toxic climate” has precluded even “strong supporters of ‘policy debate’ from “publicly attach[ing] their name to anything that might get them called racist or worse.”

{snip}

{snip} “Various procedures–regardless of whether we’re talking about debate formats or law–have the ability to hide the subjective experiences that shape these seemingly ‘objective’ and ‘rational’ rules,” said UC Hastings Law School professor Osagie Obasogie, who teaches critical race theory. “This is the power of racial subordination: making the viewpoint of the dominant group seem like the only true reality.”

Hardy disagrees. “Having minimal rules is not something that reflects a middle-class white bias,” he said. “I think it is wildly reductionist to say that black people can’t understand debate unless there is rap in it–it sells short their potential.” He said he is committed to increasing economic and racial diversity in debate and has set up a nonprofit organization to fundraise for minority scholarships.

{snip}

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  • MekongDelta69

    Yep – We went from ‘boring white males’ to “nigga authenticity.”

    Remember that old cigarette commercial? I’ll paraphrase it:
    “We’ve come a long way baby.”

    • D.B. Cooper

      Indeed!!

      • MekongDelta69

        The only ‘good’ thing I can say about that V.S. ad which was run in the 70s (and I’m really stretching here to find something ‘good’), is that back in the 60s and 70s, to be ‘authentically’ black, you had to have a fro which was the size of Sly Stone’s with a fro pick stuck in your hair all the time – and above all (in da hood), it HAD to be perfect. Not one nappy hair out of place.
        Now – every black’s (or – ‘personne du coleur’) hair HAS to look like they just woke up, and be as ratty as possible.

        When we go out in public, we try to look presentable.
        When they go out in public, they try to look as disheveled as possible.

        But I forgot – race is a ‘social construct.’

        • foundingstockcracker

          Took a couple of decades to become fully liberated from the chains of de white mens.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            If only they’d liberate themselves from the welfare trough.

  • Martel

    Great, a lot of white talented kids will be waking up to reality.

    • rasher223

      How’s that?

    • Pelagian

      No. theyll probably just try to ape the kids who are winning.

  • Who needs standards, civility and Aristotelian logic when you can have diversity and social justice?

    • me

      Oh, god! It’s just too much. I was on the debate team, and I was judged most harshly–not only for the articulation of my arguments, but for proper usage of English, by demeanor, and how well I presented myself in appearance. When we scrap generations of tradition and high standards to appease the lowly Bantu, we are surely committing suicide on the altar of ‘egalitarianism’.

      • The Final Solution

        That is one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard. Definitely not something the liberals ever contemplate either.

        • Pro_Whitey

          I think that quote would turn your average leftist into a creationist.

          • Alexandra1973

            Talk about irony! And yeah, I’m a creationist (but obviously not a leftie).

      • jane johnson

        Great quote. I’d heard part of it before, but never knew that it came from Darwin. Gives it even more credibility, and I’ll be using it a lot. Thanks for sharing.

        • Reverend Bacon

          I’ve used it too. Be careful, though- it’s origin is in question. I researched it recently, and someone found it said by a KKK member in the early 1900’s. Nonetheless, Darwin would have come way before that, and the kkk guy might have been plagiarizing.

          • sbuffalonative

            Yes, I’m wearing of quotes that are too good to be true.

            You need to find the source and include the source when posting the quote.

          • Reverend Bacon

            Here you go, but again this person was researching whether Darwin said it, and he’s rejoicing when he found someone who said it after Darwin had died. Proves nothing.

            fixedgear808(dot)blogspot(dot)com/2012/03/racist-quote-attributed-to-charles.html

            Note also that liberals often question quotes from Lincoln about repatriation and the like. This one is from the 4th Douglas Debate:

            “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

            This is on a government website (for now!!) so check it out:

            www(dot)nps(dot)gov/liho/historyculture/debate4.htm

            Hope that’s helpful.

            -RB

          • Alexandra1973

            Hey, anything they don’t like they just toss down the memory hole.

      • sbuffalonative

        I would be careful of a quote without a source. The quote appears to be not from Darwin but from the novel The Clansman by Thomas Dixon

        www freefictionbooks org/books/c/11773-the-clansman-by-thomas-dixon?start=133

        Darwin did apparently say this:

        A quote from “The Descent of Man”, in a chapter called “The Races of Man.”, in which Darwin wrote:

        “At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes…will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene
        between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the
        Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla” (1874, p. 178).

      • Alexandra1973

        I believe that Darwin was generally full of it, but on this I agree with him.

        I think that’s one reason why Christians tend to toss quotes like this out the window. Darwin promoted the *theory* of evolution; ergo, nothing he said was true.

        A friend of mine tells me and others in our circle to eat the meat and throw away the bones, so to speak. You can disagree with 90% of what someone says, doesn’t mean you don’t look at the other 10%.

        • BillMillerTime

          All the evidence points to evolution; none of the evidence undercuts it. If tomorrow someone discovered, say, rabbit fossils in the pre-Cambrian strata, then that one find all by itself would demolish evolution. If you believe in bedtime stories about talking snakes, then you’ve already shown yourself to be impervious to facts.

    • rowingfool

      Even when blacks explicitly say that they’re not going to do it the white way, that the white way is arbitrary and has no claim to universal truth and that their way is equally valid, even after all this, liberals cannot get it through their heads that blacks do not want to be like them. A liberal will argue that black scores on standardized tests lag because their background, their home environment and schools are not up to white standards. They simply cannot see that blacks reject white standards.

      Blacks create their neighborhoods and then choose to live in them because they find them comfortable. Black schools are the way they are because they are the way blacks wish their schools to be. Blacks “debate” the way they do because this is the way they wish to debate.

      A liberal cannot get their head around the notion that blacks do these things by choice–even when blacks yell it in their faces. How stupid is that?

      • A Freespeechzone

        Just look at most of the black neighborhoods—crime, violence and no order…much like black countries in Africa.

        Contrast that with communities that are the “White way”.

        • refocus

          …but that is because of white racism !

      • ViktorNN

        Blacks are incapable of reproducing or maintaining Western (white) civilization.

        Nor do they want to!

        White liberals don’t get that blacks aren’t interested in “inclusivity” – they want power to reproduce black ways of life. Our way of life is fundamentally incompatible with theirs.

  • Manaphy

    For the record, any white kid who joins a “rap debate”, or decides to become a rapper, is a full blown whigger who deserves to be ostracized from the community.

  • D.B. Cooper

    I’ve seen a few of these debates. It all boils down to a bunch of yelling. I would gladly love to debate them. I know their point of view is highly flawed, so I will quickly reduce them to a bunch of screaming crybabies.
    Prime example: see how Whoopie Goldberg acts on The View.

    • True, but it would be a waste of time to debate with people don’t understand even the basic laws of logic, can’t intellectually follow an argument, who constantly interrupt, and who employ endless straw-man and ad-hominem objections. After you’d make a valid point, they’d all sit there half brain-dead and probably retort what a ‘racist’ you are!

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        Their idea of winning a debate is to scream over anything you say and then call you a racist. You may be physically attacked as a rebuttal.

        That will be the next accepted “rule” in college debates.

        • Brian

          It’s a short step to using Gatorade for crop irrigation.

      • refocus

        That is what happens in civil court.

    • sbuffalonative

      How do you debate someone who isn’t debating the same issue as you?

  • John R

    This story just reinforces what I already thought: That blacks not only have different values than most people, they also even have a different thinking pattern. Traditional arguments-backed up by reasoning-are unimportant to them. Instead they fall back on emotionally arguing a position. So, in other words, there is no chance at changing black peoples’ minds. It is all about “feelings.” Of course they believe that Africa had great civilizations. That “feels” better for them. Of course Whites all owe them reparations. They “feel” better with that. And so it goes…

    • Childlike.

    • sbuffalonative

      It comes down to this: blacks aren’t white so blacks can’t live by white standards. Standards become defined as ‘racist’. Do away with standards and declare blacks and whites equal.

  • I used to volunteer to judge debate. The Negros would not have gotten my vote. More to the point, this is another example of how standards are going into the toilet to accomodate Negro preferences. It’s mostly libtard college profs that judge debate, so the Negros can expect to keep winning unless people like me who expect debaters to follow the rules serve as judges.

    • MekongDelta69

      You would have been stuck this time around!

      The four finalists were two ‘authentically’ black activist feminoids vs. two (even more) ‘authentically’ black radicaloids (with dreads and dashikis, doncha know).

  • jambi19

    I hope all these university DWLs practice are up to snuff on their free style rap. I swear this is the twilight zone. Who are the judges of these competitions?

    • Conrad

      “Who are the judges of these competitions?”
      Leftist commies that are in favor of our genocide.

      • sbuffalonative

        Exactly.

        WHY is this allowed to happen?

        As blacks say, ‘WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?’

    • dukem1

      Gutless wonders.

  • borogirl54

    So debate has from rational arguments to spoken word poetry and hip hop. What is this world coming to?

    • I know. It’s unbelievable. It’s the end of the world as we know it, but I don’t feel fine…

    • dukem1

      Are you new here? The world is coming to an end!
      Unless we stop it.

  • ncpride

    This article can be boiled down to a few paragraphs. Blacks are too stupid to debate the issue at hand, thus resort to the race card to ‘win’ and in the process, turn these competitions into a disgraceful display of ghetto, trash talking ‘niggas’ behaving exactly as they are ‘stereotyped’. Violent.

    • dukem1

      Black debating rules – bring your Uzi’s and Tec-nines!!!

    • sbuffalonative

      Blacks destroy everything they touch.

  • Anon

    I think this is particularly important for a forum like Amren, where the vast majority focus on reasoned arguments, being right, documenting fact, and basically think sophistry is worth anything.
    People (especially white people) do what they are told, especially when told to do so in an entertaining way. Power, not morality and certainly not being right about anything, is important. Rap daddy dorkmeister is effective in convincing people to do what he thinks should be done. Put a gun in his hand and no one even questions him.
    The whole thing is sick…but true. If white nationalists want their way, the first thing you must do is embrace the concept of white supremacy…..that is, white people come first, make all the rules and decisions and back that up with force, not reasoned argument….no, not because that is what you particularly want but because that is simply the way the world works and being effective at anything starts with being honest about what is, rather than trying to work under assumptions you wish were true. Then, anything you do, personally, and as a group, to reserve power, preferably for yourself and your own, FIRST, advances that cause…..money, guns, control of means of production, positioning oneself to be the one to decide who gets hired and promoted etc. Whatever your bailiwick your focus should be on power and the selfish exercise of it for your own benefit and the merciless use of it to destroy enemies.

  • Bon, From the Land of Babble

    Debate?

    Debating rules are White.

    Debate use of traditional White-derived logic, reason and challenges = Racist White Rules.

    Debate use of ad hominem attacks, faulty cause and effect, guilt by association, loaded questions, false choices and accusations, etc. = New, Improved and Accepted Debate Style

    Calling blacks our for such ridiculous things as performing hip-hop, slam poetry, name calling and refusing to honor the parameters of debate: RACIST!!

    As for Non-White vs. White debate, here’s how to win:

    Topic: Should the Second Amendment be overturned?

    Answer: You a racist!

    Topic: Is Obamacare economically feasible?

    Answer: You a racist!

    Topic: Should comprehensive immigration reform be passed?

    Answer: You a racist!

    Judges Ruling: Non-White: WIN; White: Eliminated, humiliated and out-argued.

    Works every time.

  • The Captain

    I can see why this new “keeping it real” Bantu debating style is so popular these days. Just reading this article has made me so incensed that I can’t even begin to debate it.

    • dukem1

      I know how you feel…This is infuriating and depressing on an order of magnitude I cannot express.
      In a sane world this would be on the front page of every news outlet….and I say this as someone who felt during my school days that the debate team was a way for poofs to get a varsity letter.
      We are doomed!

      • foundingstockcracker

        Twilight zone writ large.

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        How soon before this style of argumentation is brought into the courthouse?

        He wuz just actin’ an authentic n***a and that’s why he killed old whitey.

        Verdict: Not Guilty.

  • shawnmer

    Sooo … instead of getting “the hook” off the stage and being disqualified for ignoring the topic, the rules, having no discernible point, etc, they are being declared winners and commended for going off on unsupported diatribes about “white privilege??”
    “Academics” worthy of the name is dead. They say a fish rots from the head down. I don’t know that learning institutions are a “head,” but losing more and more generations to this kind of rot where facts literally do not matter is certainly not good.

  • Urbane Neanderthal

    Sounds like “t-ball” for little kids because they are not capable of competing with everyone else.

  • Tim_in_Indiana

    So in other words, every debate should be turned into a monologue about racism.

    “Finally, there’s a recognition in the academic space that the way argument has taken place in the past privileges certain types of people over others,”

    Yes…it privileges those with the facts, with the smarts, and with more than a one-track mind. That leaves out most blacks.

  • Strike_Team

    Joe Leeson Schatz, Director of Speech and Debate at Binghamton
    University, is encouraged by the changes in debate style and community.
    “Finally, there’s a recognition in the academic space that the way
    argument has taken place in the past privileges certain types of people
    over others,” he said. “Arguments don’t necessarily have to be backed up
    by professors or written papers…”

    Yeah. Here we go again. And from the looks of Mr. Schatz, it’s the same rhetoric from the same group well know (by aware folks) who have used arguments that can’t be backed up by reality at all. http://www2-dot-binghamton-dot-edu/english/faculty/schatz-joe-dot-html

    Smokin’ Joe’s interests in part are: Animal Rights Scholarship (lots of jokes with that one), Transhumanist Studies, and Feminist Theory. Reality. Where is it?

    The hatred of whites by the folks in charge and their tools like these debate “champions” can’t be measured. It’s also ceaseless. If they can’t beat whites, they just ignore or change the rules. On the go, and all the time.

    • Who Me?

      Hold on here a minute please. What the hell is “transhumanist”?

      • MystiKasT

        The illuminati are transhumanists. They are working to replace human beings (aside from themselves) with machines and eventually merge into bionic computing, trascending humanity. If you don’t know who the illuminati are, look into them. They are the ruling class.

        • saxonsun

          Please.

    • QuinnTheEskimo9

      Anything to hasten the destruction of white society. This is merely a symptom, one of many.

  • The Final Solution

    Don’t expect the “lived experiences” of working class whites to enter the debate anytime soon.

  • SaggyGenes

    “At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “F**k the time!” he yelled.”

    Textbook you-know-what-out. I’d love to see Jared Taylor debate and embarrass these goofs.

    • dukem1

      These goofs have such stupefying levels of narcissism nothing can phase them.

    • QuinnTheEskimo9

      They’d never let Jared Taylor open his mouth. He’s be declared a white supremacist racist who shouldn’t be allowed to speak, which is what happens to a lot of pro-whites when they enter college campuses. That or they’re physically attacked.

      • Alexandra1973

        I’m surprised BET let him on. I saw that debate with that black lawyer. Mr. Taylor totally owned that guy.

  • libertarian1234

    Blacks have even dumbed down debating.

    Everything they get involved with is turned into nonsense or mass confusion in place of logic.

    And if anybody thinks debates have grown more interesting, because of the nonsense and whining, they’re living in the Twilight Zone.

  • The Final Solution

    I love how the topic was whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Yet “the more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities”. And they still won. Socrates is turning in his grave.

    • Puggg

      We give them almost everything they want or ask for, we hardly deny them anything. If we’re at war with them, we’re sure not waging an effective one.

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        Just make sure you identify the correct ones that you’re at war with. Blacks, as always, do whatever they’re allowed to get away with, what comes naturally to them: crime, rape and physical assaults.

      • paul marchand

        The lower bunch amongst them has rendered hundreds and hundreds of public schools ” off limits ” to whites with sense, run whites out of cities, the federal govt does not allow us to hire/fire whom we please/think necessary, forces us who we MUST rent to or else, who we MUST sell to, who we MUST loan to, who the govt must hire regardless of lack of qualifications………yep………..we are killing ourselves.

        • paul marchand

          Meanwhile, the IRS and ObamaCare, together with the above, are fighting, with welfare, to kill the white “lower middle class”.

      • jane johnson

        We’re attempting to kill them with kindness, but it’s not working.

    • foundingstockcracker

      Double shot of hemlock please.

      • The Final Solution

        Indeed! Clearly Socrates had almost no experience with blacks when he said the sponge was the lowest form of life on Earth.

        • jane johnson

          Right. Sponges are self-sufficient, and keep their neighborhoods clean.

    • SaggyGenes

      They are narcissistic sociopaths, so everything must be about them.

      I also think they did this because they were totally unprepared to debate the topic at hand.

    • Reverend Bacon

      Compare this to the South Park lampooning of Johnnie Cochran with the “Chewbacca defense.”

      www(dot)southparkstudios(dot)com/clips/103454/the-chewbacca-defense

      This is life imitating art, but art is more believable.

  • bubo

    I wonder other “people of color” like Asians and Indians, who are also frequently on debate teams, appreciate loudmouth, violent blacks running roughshod over the rules and intimidating judges into letting them win?

    • dukem1

      They will just check out and go excel in something else until the diversities follow them and wreck that, too.

      • Exactly; this is the academic equivalent of what blacks do to white neighborhoods.

        • ViktorNN

          Well put.

  • SouthernReality

    Interesting…. if you can’t win fairly, change or ignore the rules. However, you do have to hand it to the organizers and judges since this is probably the first time they have seen blacks that aren’t in the NBA. It’s their turn to show how ‘open-minded’ and non-rayciss they are and finally get some ‘breakroom cred’ at the university!! When was the last time you saw or heard ANYTHING from a debate coach? Now they will be media darlings and suffer elbow disorders from patting themselves on the back!!
    Therefore resolved: Academic whites are insane. Rebuttals??

    • Rosenmops

      “Academic whites are insane. Rebuttals?”

      I’ve got nuthin’.

    • MystiKasT

      They truly are the worst.

    • jane johnson

      Crickets.

  • So CAL Snowman

    “Many of their arguments, based on personal memoir and rap music . . .”

    Unfortunately for the africans, one can’t build a first world civilization with personal memoirs and rap music.

    • bubo

      But they can destroy one. With help from insane leftist whites.

  • Rhialto

    Don’t underestimate Blacks social perceptiveness. They know what’s happening: they are trashing a White male contest, and White men can’t stop them. Blacks know that they are ignoring the rules, and instead of Blacks being disqualified and humiliated, the Blacks win while normal White men lose. Most Black men understand domination, even if few can do algebraic topology.

    Also, Feminist Kraft seems delighted.

    • QuinnTheEskimo9

      Blacks are no match for whites in any intellectual field. It is that whites are being held down, and not by blacks or by other whites.

  • Blacks degrade and destroy everything they are involved with.

  • Luca

    Debates?? Nah, this is a modern day negro minstrel show, complete with shuckin an’ jivin. singing, dancing, and hip hop.

    How else do you expect then to graduate?

  • Tarczan

    The next step after winning this debate, is for these guys to develop a product with this technique as the basis for the analysis and design, say a machine or a realty venture, and then use this technique to obtain funding from a group of investors.

  • ViktorNN

    Black loudmouthism does not equal rational debate.

    If it is racist for a white person to point this out, then white people need to be racist. It’s just a friggin’ word.

  • The Captain

    >It’s just blacks standing up and yelling about whatever they want and apparently winning.

    If you’ve spent any time around blacks at all, you’ll soon realize that in an argument between two of them the one who yells the loudest for the longest is the one who wins. There’s never an appeal to logic, it’s simply bombast and intimidation. Yelling “F**k the time!” makes sense when their idea of winning isn’t making a logical argument but rather exhausting the other party with the volume of their voice until they simply concede so they can do something else with their day.

    It’s a shame that our universities aren’t willing to call them out on this and hold them to a civil standard of debate, but that’s what happens when you hand the reins of a first world civilization to a third world population. All we can do is point, laugh, and enjoy the thrill ride of social collapse as we become another failed state.

    • Puggg

      In these kinds of Duh-bates, the loser comes back and murders the winner, because the winner dissed him.

    • Nathanwartooth

      It’s a shame that our universities aren’t willing to call them out on this and hold them to a civil standard of debate,

      It is a shame. It’s almost like the universities only care about promoting diversity.

      >It’s just blacks standing up and yelling about whatever they want and apparently winning.

      You just outed yourself as a visitor of Reddit! 99% of Reddit are super liberal anti racists and it has been pointed out that the admins are most likely anti racist activists themselves, which is why they let SRS get away with vote brigading and anything else they want.

      But for all that Reddit has bad, the forum format they have is by far the best on the internet. Being able to do simple quotes with > beats HTML tags by a mile. Also the way they weigh comments using votes AND time elapsed is genius. On Disqus, the comments are almost always just ordered by time, since the oldest posts have a snowball effect where they get the most upvotes, most of the time.

      There is a very small community on Reddit for white rights called /r/whiterights. It’s really Jew heavy, which gets old fast and is a shame. But seeing an outpost of sanity is always nice.

      There is also /r/TheRedPill which has a fair number of race realists in it. They discuss the genetic realities of gender instead of race though, but it’s other main focus is male self improvement, if you are in to that kind of thing.

  • Oh to be college-aged again!
    It would be great sport to mock the “rap-bates” with a fun house mirror.

    Wearing a crooked hat, baggy trousers and a hideous necklace, I could grab my package and scream out rhymes. I could blame gun violence on guns; assign poverty as the cause of crime and accuse Whites of stealing Africa’s technological marvels.

  • Pro_Whitey

    “Oh, no you di’n’t” and “You jus’ open a big can of whup ass” are two of my favorite debate tropes.

  • WR_the_realist

    So when blacks participate in a formal debate they ignore a serious subject such as whether the president oversteps his war powers authority (as Obama certainly did when he jumped into a civil war in Libya without any congressional authorization). Instead, they whine about how oppressed they are and make their case with rap music.

    Is anyone surprised by this? Our educational system is a joke.

  • “Yes, it’s like ‘t-ball’ without bats, balls or bases.”

    It also doesn’t have rules, which means it isn’t really debate.

    • QuinnTheEskimo9

      This is a reflection of the chaos and anarchy that our culture is descending into.

  • Pelagian

    Worst story on Amren yet! The very basis that we use for problem-solving and decision-making is affected. We have BIG problems in society … and no way to reason-through them any longer.

    • Rosenmops

      We are decending into Idiocracy.

      • Don’t be silly; we passed mere Idiocracy at escape velocity several decades ago and are still accelerating downward.

  • A fair question is how these “debates” are preparing the students involved for life after graduation. If in a professional environment I had a newly-hired subordinate come unhinged during a project meeting, I’d fire him on the spot, have him escorted out of the building by security, get a restraining order from the police, and ship him the contents of his desk by UPS. If a non-subordinate co-worker pulled that sort of nonsense, I’d walk out of the meeting. He certainly wouldn’t “win” the argument, because the discussion would be over.

    If undergraduate university work amounts to training for a career, the individual student needs to keep in mind what kind of training he or she is receiving. In a work environment, the “training” imparted by these debates is obviously of negative net value.

  • shatwood

    Jesus Christ, we’ve gone from collegiate debate to Def Jam Slam Poetry? (sigh) It’s something about this story that has gotten me to comment.

    Ya know, it’s one thing that we’ve all noticed the colleges have gone on to preaching liberal, white guilt/privilege BS. But now, we can’t even expect the Black Students to….ya know… DEBATE?!

    Well, holy F*ck, man. Instead of the tried and true process of signing a contract, why don’t we just have one of these “African Americans” give us a rhapsody about why writing out your name is discriminatory toward those without hands/sight.

    Ya know, what? Get your fricking award for best debater. And see what the hell good it does for you when you enter a court of law as an attorney and rap “DAT BAYBEE DO’NE LOOK LIKE THEE, SO HE AINT GOT-STA PAY PAH-TUR-NAH-TEE.”

    Oh, hell. The way things are going, that little rap should be a convincing defense in just 10-20 years.

    Is there a time machine that will let me grow up in the 1960s?

    • DNA Explains It All

      Idiocracy featured a court scene, it’s prophetic.

  • David Ashton

    Why not just have a jumpin’ about competition, nome sane?

  • dcc2379

    If a black person doesn’t have the intelligence to get an ID to vote (but can remember to have the ID to buy hooch after selling food stamps and when applying for more of my money because if one makes their chillin look retarded, then there is an extra check each month), then certainly if blacks aren’t number one in something, it has to be RACISM.

  • DiversityIsDeath

    Wow, this “debate” devolved into a typical sloppy black pigfest. “F*** da time!” Was anyone shot? (heee)

  • KevinPhillipsBong

    The more blacks ignore the rules the better it is for white awakenings.

    • ThomasER916

      The problem is Whites believe that blacks are intelligent enough to understand the rules.

  • cecilhenry

    Exactly, this is not Western civilization, its the first step away from while trying to imitate its status and abilities.

    Just like Haiti, there will always be an excuse but it won’t be the Haitians fault.

    • dcc2379

      Western Civilization is taught as the oppressor and destroyer of modern life; the very idea that youths — those with inexperience and infantile thoughts — hold a greater logic than older adults, also plays into this. Cultural relativism is the real enemy.

  • paul marchand

    Ref: “nigga authenticity”….look…when blacks use the NIGGE8 word, there are two messages:
    A) to the other brothers: whitey abused us
    B) to whitey: we can use the word but you can’t.
    I say: take a hike, brother. I aint playing your power-hungry game.

  • kikz2

    if only this had been an article written by/for ‘the onion’………………………………..

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    “Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise.”

    This is where the debate should have been stopped on the spot. The black debaters should have been told in no uncertain terms that there would be no deviation from the rules, to stick to the topic at hand or they would be eliminated on the spot. This would go for any other clowns who thought they could have a field day by making up their own rules.

    Instead, the CEDA and the National Debate Tournament (NDT) not only gave them a pass but lauded what they did and this new style was accepted as standard debate.

    Let’s see them try to tell a judge in court when they try to argue a case that they are “nigga authentic” and use poetry, hip-hop, dance steps and name-calling as a murder defense.

  • kikz2

    please get out if/while you can.. they’re going to kill you all……..

    • Leonor Bosman

      Thanks for your concern but it is Impossible to leave. At the moment a Rwanda style genocide is not imminent. And life goes on. The signs are there, and we are prepared. I will continue to inform if the situation worsens.

      • sbuffalonative

        I’m less worried that you’re prepared than you will be allowed to fight.

        With the current world view that whites are evil and blacks are always the victims, I can see white nations intervening to save blacks.

        You need to start and promote a massive information campaign about the facts of black on white; lots of pictures and documentation. Don’t depend on one source; there should be hundreds spreading the message.

        When the fighting begins, you will at least have the evidence on your side.

        Go to www newnation org for an example.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    The only thing colleges are willing to teach anymore is how everything should be based on race and that the degradation of society is somehow a form of desired progress.

    I would change that to:

    The only thing colleges are willing to teach anymore is how everything should be based on race and that the destruction of white culture is somehow a form of desired progress.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    We are right behind you unfortunately. The British were the first to use concentration camps against the Boers.
    Blacks do not belong in 1st world societies in Britain, the U.S. or any other white homeland.

    I am sorry for what has happened to you, the average American is and was only told the one-sided, biased narrative from the black and Jewish perspective.

    • Leonor Bosman

      Thanks for sharing. We know that the misinformation was rampant and still is. A little story: My father was an air force pilot and one of the first in SA to also do parachute training in Britain in the sixties. One night they did some jumps and he broke his ankle. While lying in a British hospital he was amazed at the television broadcasts about little black children in ‘concentration camps’. He could not believe his eyes and ears about the total lies that were spread. The image was about a little black boy standing against a wire fence. That image represented a whole ‘concentration camp’.
      These misinformation businesses are very old. We see that now in the Ukraine crisis.

      • sbuffalonative

        Which is why you must start your own fact based campaign documenting black on white violence.

        DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT!

        • Leonor Bosman

          There are quite a few
          sites. Google Afrikaner genocide or Boer genocide and it will come up. We have organizations that documents every single white murder and all the farm murders. Nearly 4000 farmers brutally raped, tortured and killed up to date. They are non human in their farm attacks. They burn with hot water or irons, the chop and hack their victims to death. And if a woman is there they will all (5 to 6) rape and torture her and then kill her. The world has no idea of the brutality and how evil the African can be. No idea.

          • DNA Explains It All

            I have lived near these things for the first couple decades of my life. Trust me they behave no better in America.

          • sbuffalonative

            Yes, I’ve seen some but they’re not making their way into the mainstream where they need to be.

            I know the world press is against whites so it’s an uphill fight and I can only offer suggestions.

            You need to find someone who’s familiar with Google algorithm who knows how to spike webpages to increase hits.

            Find out the power players in the UN and organize a campaign to flood them with email images. Make it public and shame publicly for ignoring you.

            Find conservative websites with conservative reporters who would be sympathetic and report on these problems.

            Start a campaign of targeting mainstream news papers with reports. Document which newspapers and reporters and then make a public stink on their failure to report these stories. You have to smear blood on their hands and make them complicit when they don’t report these crimes.

            When they fail to report stories, post pictures of reporters and editors who ignore these stories.

            Follow the tactics of the left.

          • Leonor Bosman

            Thank you very much. I have copied your reply and will make work of each of your suggestions.

  • MystiKasT

    It is really (some) white people that are the issue. Blacks are doing what they naturally do, it is whites they are enabling it, encouraging it, and forcing it on us. Really the enemy is white.

    • Leonor Bosman

      That is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That is the history of South Africa. Without the financial aid of hunderds and hunderds of million dollars to the inept ANC, as it is clear today, they would never have taken my country. Money was the weapon of war against my people. Money that came from the white people of this world into the hands of white Afrikaner traitors and into the propaganda machine of the communist terror organization of the ANC.
      That is also the story of the NWO and its children the NGOs that infiltrate all the countries of the world to do their master’s bidding.

      • IstvanIN

        Interesting, South Africa under Whites managed to survive western sanctions but black run SA can’t survive with freedom to trade with any and all nations.

        • Leonor Bosman

          And we would have up to today, but as you stated that white people brought us down with the lure of huge sums of money. We had one thing that could have held the world for ransom and eased the impact of sanctions for decades to come and that is our chrome. We have more than half of the worlds chrome deposits. With our other minerals we were, the conservative white people, in the way of the Multi Corps and Trans Nats, With greedy, corrupt and stupid blacks in power South Africa is open for the raid.

          And they steal. How can $140 000 000.00 just disappear? One of the oversight commities found that in ONE department of the state that that amount cannot be accounted for but no one ‘knows’ where its gone. Are they fired? Are they charged? No. Business as usual.

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        You must understand and spread the word as to WHO fomented the war against White Africa, who funded, agitated for and organized the ANC. Without these enablers, hapless blacks would have never put an end to apartheid, and South Africa would be the prosperous jewel it was before the ANC takeover, instead of the killing fields it is to this day.

        According to Israel’s largest newspaper, Jews were dramatically overrepresented among white anti-Apartheid activists. Despite Apartheid being an important ally of Israel. The paper also describes how South African Jews were instrumental in the formation of the South African Communist Party (which launched the ANC) and the South African Progressive Party.

        From Jerusalem Post…

        The postal services of Liberia, Gambia and Sierra Leone will simultaneously issue a set of three commemorative postal sheets on Tuesday in memory of 12 Jews – men and women – who fought Apartheid and racism in Africa.

        In the struggle against South African Apartheid, according to one of the commemorative sheets, it was estimated that Jews were overrepresented by 2,500 percent in proportion to the governing white population.

        “This stamp issue acknowledges the extraordinary sacrifices made by Jews to the liberation of their African brethren, and these stamps recognize some of the most significant contributors to global humanity in the 20th century,” reads the text on one of the commemorative sheets.

        Each sheet presents four black-and-white photos of stamps featuring the Jewish heroes. Details can be found at legendary heroes of Africa (dot) com.

        The Liberian issue will show Helen Suzman, Eli Weinberg, Esther Barsel and Hymie Barsel.

        The issue from Sierra Leone will display Yetta Barenblatt, Ray Alexander Simons, Baruch Hirson and Norma Kitson. The Gambian sheet will present Ruth First, Hilda Bernstein, Lionel “Rusty” Bernstein and Ronald Segal.

        –Council of Conservative Citizens

        The most famous Jew Communist in South Africa was Joe Slovo. Born in Lithuania, came to South Africa where he joined the Young Communist League at the age of sixteen. He became a central member of the Communist Party of South Africa and a ‘hard-line Stalinist’, becoming general secretary in 1986.

        He concentrated on building up Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ‘armed wing’ of the ANC (African National Congress), becoming its chief of staff and head strategist in the campaign of bombings directed at civilian targets and other acts of terror. He only abandoned his commitment to Stalinism and Soviet-style communism when the Soviet bloc started falling apart in the late 1980s and it became necessary to do so.

        A key strategist representing the ANC in the negotiations with F.W. De Klerk’s government in the handover of power, he became a minister in Mandela’s Cabinet when the ANC came to power in 1994. He died of cancer a few years later. South Africa’s Chief Rabbi Cyril Harris officiated at the funeral of Joe Slovo, calling Slovo “a better Jew than most” (Fair Lady 22 May 2002 p. 37).

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        You must understand and spread the word as to WHO fomented the war against White Africa, who funded, agitated for and organized the ANC. Without these enablers, hapless blacks would have never put an end to apartheid, and South Africa would be the prosperous jewel it was before the ANC takeover, instead of the killing fields it is to this day.

        According to Israel’s largest newspaper, Jews were dramatically overrepresented among white anti-Apartheid activists. Despite Apartheid being an important ally of Israel. The paper also describes how South African Jews were instrumental in the formation of the South African Communist Party (which launched the ANC) and the South African Progressive Party.

        From Jerusalem Post…

        The postal services of Liberia, Gambia and Sierra Leone will simultaneously issue a set of three commemorative postal sheets on Tuesday in memory of 12 Jews – men and women – who fought Apartheid and racism in Africa.

        In the struggle against South African Apartheid, according to one of the commemorative sheets, it was estimated that Jews were overrepresented by 2,500 percent in proportion to the governing white population.

        “This stamp issue acknowledges the extraordinary sacrifices made by Jews to the liberation of their African brethren, and these stamps recognize some of the most significant contributors to global humanity in the 20th century,” reads the text on one of the commemorative sheets.

        Each sheet presents four black-and-white photos of stamps featuring the Jewish heroes.

        The Liberian issue will show Helen Suzman, Eli Weinberg, Esther Barsel and Hymie Barsel.

        The issue from Sierra Leone will display Yetta Barenblatt, Ray Alexander Simons, Baruch Hirson and Norma Kitson. The Gambian sheet will present Ruth First, Hilda Bernstein, Lionel “Rusty” Bernstein and Ronald Segal.

        –Council of Conservative Citizens

        The most famous Jew Communist in South Africa was Joe Slovo. Born in Lithuania, came to South Africa where he joined the Young Communist League at the age of sixteen. He became a central member of the Communist Party of South Africa and a ‘hard-line Stalinist’, becoming general secretary in 1986.

        He concentrated on building up Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ‘armed wing’ of the ANC (African National Congress), becoming its chief of staff and head strategist in the campaign of bombings directed at civilian targets and other acts of terror. He only abandoned his commitment to Stalinism and Soviet-style communism when the Soviet bloc started falling apart in the late 1980s and it became necessary to do so.

        A key strategist representing the ANC in the negotiations with F.W. De Klerk’s government in the handover of power, he became a minister in Mandela’s Cabinet when the ANC came to power in 1994. He died of cancer a few years later. South Africa’s Chief Rabbi Cyril Harris officiated at the funeral of Joe Slovo, calling Slovo “a better Jew than most” (Fair Lady 22 May 2002 p. 37).

    • ThomasER916

      It’s the Culture of Critique that is deluded to believe they’re “the other.”

  • MystiKasT

    Whites built Detroit, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built Chicago, blacks are destroying it.

    Whites built Philadelphia, blacks are destroying it.

    Whites built Chester, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built Trenton, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built Camden, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built Baltimore, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built-up Haiti, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built-up Monrovia, blacks destroyed it.

    Whites built-up South Africa, blacks destroyed it!

  • “…and have few conduct enforcement mechanisms. ”

    That’s telling.

    “said UC Hastings Law School professor Osagie Obasogie”
    Obasogie, a traditional American name.

  • Simonetta

    I feel sorry for all the Asian kids. First they have to learn Chinese, then the 20000 standard Chinese written characters.
    Then it’s on to English language, and how to string 26 letters into about 20000 commonly used academic English words.
    And after 15 years of 12-hour-a-day study, they now find that they need to master (perhaps a racist choice of word): ‘nigga authenticity’.

    I once got ‘written up’ when working as an intern in the local unemployment office when I suggested to a black that if they wanted to know what the sign on the wall in Vietnamese said, they should study Vietnamese. Actually the gal needed to know the telephone number for the state office and I pointed to the number (written in western digits) in a sign that was written in Vietnamese and told her to dial it. When she said suppose they answer in some language, then I flippantly said (as unpaid interns will do) that maybe you should learn that language. She chimped out and I got a written reprimand.

  • sbuffalonative

    They can’t think so they shout.

  • Reverend Bacon

    This is the Johnny Cochran style of debate. It was anathema then, and it is now.

    The prosecution tried it in Florida against George Zimmerman; it worked in the press, and thankfully, it failed in court.

  • Reverend Bacon

    Thanks. I like Derbyshire, but seldom see this column. I will have to make it a regular stop.

  • Mrfinoni

    The ‘NEW’ rules are not debating! Rap is entertainment! It’s not a debate!

  • dcc2379

    “Many of their arguments, based on personal memoir and rap music,
    completely ignored the stated resolution, and instead asserted that the
    framework of collegiate debate has historically privileged straight,
    white, middle-class students.”

    Any time a Liberal, many race-traitor whites, open their mouths, they ignore the facts and replace them with their facts and screams of racism. I know they are correct because I watch CNN and CBS and listen to Holder and Obama. Those poor souls, being mistreated.

  • Brian

    8. Fling feces like a chimpanzee.

  • A Freespeechzone

    Blacks obviously can’t debate in the traditional format used for hundreds of years; it has to be modified at a lower level and no class in the interest of embracing diversity.

    Pandering to the unqualified and inept. Future Obamas.

  • Garrett Brown

    That video is golden.

  • Jacqonta Green

    I concur.

  • obot

    Outside of the engineering, math, and some of the hard sciences, it’s all indoctrination and a scam to put kids deeply in debt.

  • 1069rhythm

    The article mentions “logistical issues with the hotel venue.” Maybe they should have their next competition in a government facility, where “logistics” would be less of an issue.

  • Judderson

    If blacks can’t win the rules are racist. That about sums this up. So we as a society have to cater to blacks and lower standards for them make them “equal”? Blacks reinforcing racial stereotypes of blacks by claiming inequality whenever they fall short of the standard. Oh the bitter idiocy of it all!