In Research Involving Genome Analysis, Some See a ‘New Racism’

Paul Voosen, Chronicle of Higher Education, March 24, 2014

For a few years, the biological notion of race seemed dead and gone.

It was one of the high points of President Bill Clinton’s speech in 2000 announcing the near completion of research to sequence the structure of human DNA: “One of the great truths to emerge from this triumphant expedition inside the human genome,” he said that day in the East Room, “is that in genetic terms, all human beings, regardless of race, are more than 99.9 percent the same.”

Yet just a few years later, genome scientists began to see that, while humanity’s genome is deeply shared, it is possible to group some DNA segments by their continental origin—African, European, Asian, Native American. Such DNA biomarkers seemed useful in the hunt for the genetic basis of disease. It made little sense for scientists, typically acting out of concern for health disparities, not to take those differences into account to increase their studies’ statistical power.

This awareness that DNA can be so sorted has prompted a crisis in the social sciences, however, where it’s a truism that race is entirely a social construct. The response has been mixed, only just beginning, and is documented in Catherine Bliss’s book Race Decoded: The Genomic Fight for Social Justice (Stanford University Press, 2012).

“The big irony here is that in trying to improve U.S. race relations and minority health, we’ve come full circle,” Bliss, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of California at San Francisco, said at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in February. By using race-aware policies in the hope of ending health disparities in the country, she said, scientists were unwittingly causing a “new racism.” The upshot, she contended, is that research on social and economic causes of health disparities was not receiving enough attention.

Others have taken the argument further. Kathleen J. Fitzgerald, a sociologist at Loyola University New Orleans, argues in a recent paper, published in Humanity & Society, that the “resurgence of biological notions of race” is fueled by a “white perception of a threat to their social dominance.” Her case, however, is painted in broad strokes and engages in a fair amount of mind reading when it comes to motives.

On the flip side, several researchers have taken up the challenge of more accurately describing what this genomic information conveys. In the journal Race and Social Problems, Rick A. Kittles, an associate professor of medicine at the University of Illinois at Chicago, points out that race continues to lack “biological integrity” in light of these discoveries, as most human genomes are made up of DNA segments that traveled across several continents, not just one. Far better to speak in terms of genetic ancestry, he says. (That’s the language used by Barnes, Hernandez, and other researchers mentioned in the accompanying article.) A concept like that does not carry race’s baggage, and points toward productive areas of biological research.

{snip}

Topics: , , , ,

Share This

We welcome comments that add information or perspective, and we encourage polite debate. If you log in with a social media account, your comment should appear immediately. If you prefer to remain anonymous, you may comment as a guest, using a name and an e-mail address of convenience. Your comment will be moderated.
  • Truth Teller

    What people mean when they say race is a social construct is that it is defined differently wherever you go. The definition for white in the Dominican Republic is not the same as it is in the US.

    • So CAL Snowman

      That’s not what they mean at all and you know it. They mean that there are no differences in intelligence and ability between the races.

      • Truth Teller

        But why should intelligent groups from lower IQ countries such as the Brahmins of India as well as others from the highest castes or the upper class Egyptians be defined as stupid based on the “majority rules” concept?

        • So CAL Snowman

          We are talking about the AVERAGE intelligence of the races. On AVERAGE Indians are not as intelligent as Whites and East Asians. I would classify the Indians as stupid because they breed out of control and only around 50% of the population has access to toilets and potable drinking water. They may have a group of high IQ achievers but their country is a hot third world mess.

          • Truth Teller

            But the upper class people there should not feel inferior because of the concept of “averages”. It’s not the “average” person who accomplishes everything. It’s the upper echelon.

          • Luca

            Who said they should feel inferior? If you have a superior IQ, well, bully for you. But you should simultaneously recognize that you are an exception to the rule, based on the averages for the group you belong to.

          • Truth Teller

            The subgroup people belong to are also groups. There are subgroups within larger groups that outperform the rest. The Brahmins of India do not belong to the same group as the lower caste Indians.
            In poorer countries, there is a bigger intelligence gap between the rich and the poor. If you come from a long line of rich people, you don’t come from the same group due to the pressures of selective breeding.

          • Max

            Exactly. A race is more than IQ anyway. Look at a culture/nation and it will tell you about the race which spawned it. THAT is the average which matters. This is where a certain gadfly on this site continues to err. He thinks IQ is the only consideration in importing millions of Asians or Jews or whatever else passes his mentation test. I disagree. Look at their cultures.

          • Einsatzgrenadier

            Exactly. Some people forget that the personality traits that lead to the creation of these dysfunctional 3rd world cultures are also genetically heritable.

          • Norseman

            From a purely genetic standpoint, what advantages do you think whites have over Orientals (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans)?

          • IstvanIN

            That alone proves the Chinese are smarter than Indians. They have tried to get their population under control and improve their economy. All this despite having been a civil war-torn backwater until the Mao takeover and then enduring 40 years of Maoist insanity. China is far from perfect but they get points for trying.

            India could have learned but the British but their primitiveness is too ingrained.

          • Norseman

            I think we should be careful with drawing conclusions about the intelligence of populations based solely on a beneficial policy being followed. After all, the rationale behind this policy is not rocket science. Having the will to see it through is some feat though. Some demographic problems in China is perhaps an indication that the policy could have been better implemented. As you note, Mao`s insanity cost China dearly. However, this was not something that just happened to China with Mao being the only perpetrator. It required the dedicated cooperation of a very large number of people as well as the compliance of many more.

            I would actually say that India did learn a lot from the British. They aspire to a clean, independent judiciary and free and fair elections, with at least some success. Unfortunately, when India gained its independence, the belief in heavy state intervention in the economy had reached a high point in the western world. India adopted this belief as well. Beginning in 1991 they began freeing up their economy. The common depiction of the Indian economy as being bogged down by a bureaucracy which decide every minutiae detail and takes its time doing it. There is still some truth to this, but I believe decreasingly so.

            That said, I agree that as far as I know, science indicates that Chinese are, on average, more intelligent than Indians.

          • M&S

            Average Indian IQ is actually only 84. A black off the streets is smarter.
            Beyond which, if you won’t breed to someone you consider ugly or immoral (check the reality of life for Hindu women in a demonistic religion) you don’t want to give them power over you _regardless_ of how smart they are.
            Because every time you do, you put your life and your kid’s lives in the hands of someone who has no vested interest in you or your people.
            Because that’s the way genetic instinct works: Survive to maturity. Select the best partner, breed. Raise those genes to a level of betterment where -they- can breed to the best.
            All the nations on the planet have lost this concept, instead choosing to go with “Have as many kids as you can, use them like pieces on a Go board to surround and contain a given resource or service, control it.”
            And if we are honestly too stupid to see this, we will be rendered extinct.
            Because they have -no problems- (Indian caste system) excluding unwanteds from their ‘polite society’.

          • saxonsun

            A friend of mine worked with Indians. He said they wash their hands BEFORE going to the bathroom and not after. As a result, he’d never eat Indian food.

        • M&S

          Why can’t the Brahmins of India sort their own problems, where they live rather than involve Whites in OUR country?
          The U.S. has no more right -or interest- in vacuuming the brains of the world’s nations than we do accepting their worst.
          But to make it seem like all is fair (in a land which would otherwise have no breeding partners as futures for intelligent non-whites) they have to ‘sweeten the deal’.
          And we suffer for it. From Greenspan and ‘White Engineeers cost too much’ to. ‘It’s just a piece of paper!’ Bush.
          Whites create livable societies. The other races create R-Bred sewers.

        • Mergatroyd

          Imagine what India would be like now if the British had never been there?

          It would be an even worse, polluted cesspool than it already is, but it has roads and a railway system and other infrastructure that the British built.

          • saxonsun

            Absolutely. And also imagine what the world would be like without the British Empire–back to the caves.

    • Mergatroyd

      Honestly who cares what the definition of “White” is in the Dominican Republic?

      I’m only concerned about how the U.S. government defines Whites: As those to be discriminated against, denied civil rights, crimes against them covered up by the media, denied access to higher education, jobs and career advancement.

      THEN the cultural marxists who control the U.S. government know exactly who is and isn’t White.

  • Truthseeker

    It truly is remarkable how paralyzed with fear so many people are over “racism.” It’s not hateful or bigoted to recognize that there are differences between people of different races. If they actually listened to our side, rather than caricaturizing us and dismissing us, they might see that we’re fully aware of these facts, and most of us advocate separation, not ethnic cleansing or genocide. Instead of hiding from the truth, we should acknowledge it and discuss it openly. We might find some real solutions to our problems that work for everybody. Of course, the Cultural Marxists who push “anti-racism” probably aren’t motivated by a desire to find solutions that work for everybody, but that’s another discussion.

    • Max

      The left is not against ethnic cleansing or genocide. In fact, they favor it for the majority of whites. THAT is why they are against separation and insist on forced mixing only in white nations.

      • dcc2379

        You also point to the benefit of white intelligence for the natives. An often overlooked fact is that the apartheid South Africa had the largest net in migration of any African country. Why? Whites brought modernity and safety, and living with whites was far superior to living with their tribes. Unfortunately, whites gave the rule to the natives much like a zoo would let its poison snakes run amuck. The results are the same.

  • Puggg

    Here’s another way:

    Quit twisting yourself into knots trying to mash up political religion with science, and go with the science.

    • Oil Can Harry

      Ignorance is (Catherine) Bliss.

  • So CAL Snowman

    So what happens when the Chinese and the Japanese begin to report the exact same findings? How will the Western media spin the supposed Asian racism and supremacy?

    • This is how. They were grossly ‘undermined’ by evil racist White supremacists trying to ‘push’ their agenda forwards. Those bad, bad, despicable White people.

    • Triarius

      That day can’t some soon enough. Anyone in the West that finds this kind of information will be cast out and black listed.

      Although we have had this knowledge for a long time, we cannot say so until some other race eventually stumbles upon it. It is a sad era for freedom.

  • sbuffalonative

    This is the first post I made on the original article:

    How could any intelligent person believe that different groups of people
    who evolved in different regions of the world, some in isolated areas,
    would evolve at the same rate producing identical people?

    I’m currently in discussion with someone who doesn’t like where my discussion is going.

    • Triarius

      That guy is such a typical libtard. Everyone, follow the link and add a comment or two. I did.

      • Alexandra1973

        I’m having a ball over there. All I get from one dingleberry over there is “racist,” “KKK,” ad nauseum. LOL

      • DNA Explains It All

        I got mine…

        • dd121

          And a big round of applause for everyone who joined in the fun.

          • DNA Explains It All

            Don’t you love having to argue with that .001% of blacks capable of getting online and arguing in full sentences, as though all blacks are on par with even them? Oh god it gets tiring.

          • dd121

            It just doesn’t occur to liberals that their arguments need to make sense to be taken seriously. I particularly liked his argument that whites got their high IQs in the last 150 years because that’s we started to build advanced things.

          • Alexandra1973

            That one loon seemed to be really scared that AmRen posters were getting upvoted. It’s like, oh no, time to panic–people are waking up!

      • Luca

        Very entertaining. Reminds me of grade school banter on the playground but with an advanced vocabulary.

    • dd121

      We’ve been having a very spirited conversation with Ed. Thanks for the tip. He claims to a black engineer. I asked him how much white blood he had but he refused to answer. He’s a real whiner, though.

  • Luca

    The liberal Left will engage in all kinds of semantical contortions to avoid the truth and the reality of the scientific evidence.

    The word Race can be argued all day long, the truth is, humans can be more accurately categorized as “breeds”. The Left would have an endless hissy-fit over that one.

    We are all mixtures of three or more types of DNA, but we must always focus on the dominant one. In my estimation, anytime you have an abundance of the African DNA types, especially sub-Saharan, you are likely to get the corresponding types of behavior so amply displayed on YouTube and Cops.

    • M&S

      Not going far enough.
      A wolf will always be a canid, even if it breeds to a coyote (as can happen).
      But a white who loses whiteness will lose half the genetic material which gives him that unique combination of what makes him white as intelligence, morality and conformity/independence.
      In this, it is important to note that we are moving, rapidly, towards becoming another species.
      And thus the species we came from, with all it’s subs, is the one which is at risk of being left behind. And they know it.

  • John Ambrose

    So because Bill Clinton (whose resides in lily-white Chappaqua NY and who has used almost only white women for his many mistresses) says race doesn’t exist we’re all supposed to believe him. Never mind what Nobel Laureate and DNA co-discoverer James Watson has said on the matter… ’cause we all know Billy Clinton et al. are an experts!

    • Max

      -and Clinton was lavishly rewarded where Watson was immediately fired and then ridiculed by every ass-kissing scientist who could get to a microphone.

    • Bill Clinton openly expressed how happy he was at America becoming less and less White. One can only wonder what sought of psychology goes into that mind? Certainly not healthy or normal.

    • Mergatroyd

      We know what happened to James Watson, and because of what happened to him, science and scientific research on race-based DNA has been set back decades.

      *For those who don’t know, Nobel Prize Winner and director of Cold Springs Harbor Laboratory. After he made a comment about African intelligence as low, his books tour was canceled, he was suspended as director of Cold Springs Laboratory and he suffered a barrage of media outrage that nearly destroyed him.

      All for speaking the truth.

      • Berkeley Guy

        I had to double-take here. James Watson of Watson and Crick?

        • John Ambrose

          Yes that James Watson- of whom uber-marxist Steven Rose said “was out if his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically” for speculating about race, genes and IQ.
          Despite the medieval-like suppression of race based DNA research, the Chinese (and some brave Westerners) are undaunted and busily trying to find the genetic underpinnings of traits like IQ.

        • Mergatroyd

          Yes.

          Google it to find out James Watson’s (of Watson and Crick) had his life completely destroyed by the cultural marxists. Didn’t matter that he was a Nobel Prize winner, he told the truth about low black intelligence and for that lost his career.

  • dd121

    I guess I’m of the old school that sees only truth in the truth.

  • They (academics) really twist themselves into knots to avoid having to admit that race is real. “Genetic ancestry” is just a lefty code word for race. It’s funny that these fools have boxed themselves in and are squirming to get out.

    • Max

      We all know what it means but changing the terminology allows them to save face by not having to admit the patent reality of the concept formerly known as “race”. This will devolve to the degree possible, to a contemporary version of “how many angels can dance on a pin” to avoid calling a spade, a spade.

  • Rhialto

    I am confused. I thought that the Liberals claimed that all races are equal only mentally. All races have the same intelligence, the same instinctive behaviors, the same learning capacities. Liberals did not believe that races were equal in other ways such as skin color, immunity, size, body type.

    Nowhere does the article challenge the Liberal belief of equal intelligence. So why are the Liberals so agitated?

    • Max

      It is the scientific camel’s nose under the liberal wishful-thinking tent and they know it.

    • jane johnson

      It’s that old slippery slope thing; you can lead a lib to the very brink of reality, but then the delusions take over.

  • Freedoooom

    Bone Marrow Is A Social Construct

    • Bone density is a figment of the RAYcisT White Imagination.

    • Max

      As are sickle-cell disease, beta-thalassemia, Tay-Sachs, malignant melanoma and rickets. Like the concept of “race” these have been widely discredited.

      • Freedoooom

        Well he does appear to admit genetic diseases unique to each of the social constructs.

  • JSS

    One thing the research has not provided any evidence for is equality. I would also add that academias humanities departments are have nothing to with science or education but are more like an inquisition.

    • Mergatroyd

      One of THE most misunderstood passages from the Declaration of Independence is Jefferson’s “All Men are Created Equal” which the cultural marxists have glommed onto as “proof” that Jefferson and the Founders meant that we are ALL exactly the same (and therefore there should be NO objection to massive 3rd world non-white immigration, because, hey: we are all the same in all ways so why are you racists objecting?).

      Thomas Jefferson meant equality under the law. He also did not foresee a time when the country he fought to created and others died for would become a non-white 3rd world hell hole with whites as a hated minority.

      “for us and our posterity” meant the descendants of the founders, not uneducated, unsuitable somalis, sudanese, Iraqis, Bhutanese and other non-whites. That’s why the first “immigration” act, The Naturalization Act of 1790, specified that “any alien, being a free white person,” could apply for citizenship, so long as he or she lived in the United States for at least two years, and in the state where the application was filed for at least a year. The new law also provided that “children of citizens of the United States that may be born … out of the limits of the United States shall be considered as natural born citizens.”

  • JohnEngelman

    Since the ancestors of those of us who are not Negros left Africa about 60,000 years ago we have evolved.

    Since we developed agriculture ten thousand years ago and civilization five thousand years ago, we have evolved in ways that that have reduced our crime rate, while increasing our IQ’s.

    • MikeofAges

      Or we developed civilization because we already had the social coherence and intelligence to do it.

      • IstvanIN

        Or we were smart enough to leave Africa because we could see where the neighborhood was going.

      • JohnEngelman

        An organism does not evolve differently from its ancestors until it encounters a different environment. Then new characteristics are selected for.

        Our ancestors did not develop agriculture because they were able to, but because they had to. Game animals and wild plant foods had become scarce. With neolithic agriculture a given area can produce more food. With civilization it can produce still more food.

        • Luca

          Our ancestors did not develop agriculture simply because they had to. They had to have the intelligence to do so. They could have died out through a lack of intelligence, ability to innovate, adapt and improvise.

          I am sure many “tribes” have died out for that very reason. They had to adapt and weren’t capable of it.

          While necessity is the mother of invention, intelligence is a necessary component.

        • MikeofAges

          People think they understand evolution, but they don’t. That includes you. First of all, evolution is an observed result produced by other processes, not itself a process. Secondly, natural selection only can work on what is. How what is got there is part of what has to be explained.

          As you note, agriculture developed late in the process. There is no certainty that it developed because of evolved changes in the human organism. More likely, the necessary intellectual and social capabilities already were there. Unknown whether human beings have “evolved” to speak of in the last 10,000 years. Increased cosmopolitanism has created opportunities for mixing peoples that did not exist in the past, although the movement of peoples did create mixing, while subsequent isolation created new types. A new human being has not yet evolved as consequence of this, however.

          Really, your simplistic mathematical Cartesianism gets tiresome. It doesn’t explain much of anything and often lead to conclusions that are known historically wrong. That’s why people are striking back at you all the time. Live and learn, man. You should try it some time.

    • RyanP

      One could make the case that there is some degree of chance in which racial group first stumbled upon agriculture/science/industrialization etc. But once the wheel has been invented it should just be an easy matter of imitation after that. The fact is certain groups(ex. north east asians) thrived when the western civilization instruction manual was handed over to them. Other groups just cannot seem to make it work even after generations of well intentioned efforts by whites to help them along. Not only do these groups fail to create a modern society, they cannot even sustain one after the its been built and the keys are handed over.

      • JohnEngelman

        I am not sure if you understood my point. Because civilization selects for intelligence while suppressing physical aggressiveness, the longer a race has practiced civilization the higher its intelligence is likely to be, and the lower its crime rate.

        Other factors enter in too. A cold climate selects for higher intelligence.

        Civilization began in the Near East. However, Arabs tend to be less intelligent than Europeans because the African slave trade introduced Negro genes into their genome.

        Consequently, the races are not equal in average ability levels and behavior.

  • DaveMed

    “One of the great truths to emerge from this triumphant expedition inside the human genome,” he said that day in the East Room, “is that in genetic terms, all human beings, regardless of race, are more than 99.9 percent the same.”
    _________________________________________________________

    This is such an obscene simplification of genetics that only utterly ignorant lay-people could fall for it.

    Why on earth should we trust a lawyer to lecture us about science?

  • WR_the_realist

    It’s fun to watch lefties tie themselves up in knots. Even far left professors of multicultural studies know that if a white man and a white woman have a child that child will be white, if a black man and a black woman have a child that child will be black, and if an Oriental man and an Oriental woman have a child that child will be Oriental. Yet they present astonishment and fear that “race” turns out to be a biological concept and is determined by our genes.

    In the journal Race and Social Problems, Rick A. Kittles, an associate
    professor of medicine at the University of Illinois at Chicago, points out that
    race continues to lack “biological integrity” in light of these
    discoveries, as most human genomes are made up of DNA segments that
    traveled across several continents, not just one. Far better to speak in
    terms of genetic ancestry, he says.

    A black person is someone for whom most of his ancestors 20 generations back came from Africa. A white person is someone for whom most of his ancestors 20 generations back came from Europe. An Oriental person is someone for whom most of his ancestors 20 generations back came from East Asia. There, I just defined race in terms of genetic ancestry. Does that make all the lefty professors feel better? Or is genetic ancestry a social construct too?

  • JohnEngelman

    The is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

    – Thomas Jefferson

    The truth is disturbing to those who refuse to accept the truths of race realism and genetic determinism.

  • DailyKenn

    • “where it’s a truism that race is entirely a social construct.” = FALSE positive

    • “biological integrity” is code for “anti white”

  • IstvanIN

    Kathleen J. Fitzgerald, a race treasonist at Loyola University New Orleans.

    There fixed it.

    • gemjunior

      She needs to be slapped into reality.

  • DiversityIsDeath

    The liberals claim that all humans share 99.9% genetics. But isn’t it also true that humans and chimpanzees share something like 99% identical DNA? What that means is that there is a world of difference within that 1% difference. That 1% is no insignificant portion.

    • Mentious

      From the subtle comes the great. In metaphysics the subtle (small) is the point of greatest power and influence. In like manner, the most subtle genetic differences are associated with the greatest physical (and other) differences.

      • Mergatroyd

        Christians would say “God is in the details.”

  • Sue

    Blood must be racist too. The closer you are to one ethnicity, the easier for transfusion, bone marrow, organ donors, etc. I found this out the hard way.
    The blood drives beg blacks to give blood because it matches their race.

    • Mergatroyd

      Like kidneys, blacks are happy to take white kidneys, hearts, etc. and organ donation committees are happy to give YOUR white kidney to blacks over whites, but black will not donate their organs.

      Reason? They’re afraid their organs will be harvested and given to white devils.

      • Sue

        I don’t think so. Even guaranteed donation to blacks (which is the best match for those things you’ve quoted) won’t get any better results.They don’t “give” anything to anybody. The only way they seem to aspire is when it’s affirmative action guaranteed.

  • LovelyNordicHeidi

    ……………………………………………………………..

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      This awareness that DNA can be so sorted has prompted a crisis in the social sciences, however, where it’s a truism that race is entirely a social construct. The response has been mixed, only just beginning, and is documented in Catherine Bliss’s book Race Decoded: The Genomic Fight for Social Justice (Stanford University Press, 2012).
      —————————————————————–
      The author of this article has entered the loony land of double-think:

      1. “DNA can be [racially] sorted”
      2. “it’s a truism that race is entirely a social construct”

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      It was one of the high points of President Bill Clinton’s speech in 2000 announcing the near completion of research to sequence the structure of human DNA: “One of the great truths to emerge from this triumphant expedition inside the human genome,” he said that day in the East Room, “is that in genetic terms, all human beings, regardless of race, are more than 99.9 percent the same.”
      —————————————————————-
      In other words, it’s only 14 years ago that Bill Clinton spread lies about race, thinking that science was actually on his side.

      Now he can only pretend that science is on his side. He just has to have faith in science that science is on his side.

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      By using race-aware policies in the hope of ending health disparities in the country, she said, scientists were unwittingly causing a “new racism.”
      ——————————————————————–
      In other words, “racism” can be proven to be scientifically correct, but the fact that scientists conduct research that proves “racism” to be correct is supposed to be EVIL. Racism is defined in the dictionary as “the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors.” That belief is falsifiable, therefore it can be proven to be scientifically correct or incorrect. Science has proven this belief to be correct. What’s next? Are they going to rehabilitate racism?

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      “The big irony here is that in trying to improve U.S. race relations and minority health, we’ve come full circle,”
      —————————————————————-
      I only see the irony of what Bliss is saying. If Bliss does not accept racial reality and if Bliss does not acknowledge that every ethnicity needs its own homeland and if Bliss does not support the mass deportation of minorities, Bliss is going to witness the largest race war in human history within just a few decades.

      • MBlanc46

        Race doesn’t exist but whites do.

        • LovelyNordicHeidi

          Whites also don’t exist according to race denialists, until they need to cricise Whites for racism, slavery, etc.

          • LovelyNordicHeidi

            The funny thing is that:

            1. If you think that race, esp. the White race, does not exist, then critique of races is illegitimate. One would therefore have to believe that the White race cannot be blamed for anything and that assimilation, melting pot and multiculturalism are largely superfluous concepts.

            2. But if you think that race, esp. the White race does exist, then critique of races is legitimate. One would therefore have to believe that non-Whites could be blamed for their own failures rather than the White race which has virtually no civilisational failures in comparison to other races.

            The belief that the White race has to be blamed for anything wicked that has to do with race relations in any Western country cannot be held along with any of these beliefs. It is only the strange worldview of cultural marxism that allows double-think so that race denialism and race realism can be held simultaneously. The fact that these contradicting views are held simulateneously shows that there is a hidden agenda, i.e. anti-Whitism. I think that double-think is a means to an end to destroy Western society, because I know that double-think can be a very potent psychological weapon.

          • ShermanTMcCoy

            Like IQ doesn’t exist until they need to defend some black murderer by presenting him as functionally retarded.

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      Others have taken the argument further. Kathleen J. Fitzgerald, a sociologist at Loyola University New Orleans, argues in a recent paper, published in Humanity & Society, that the “resurgence of biological notions of race” is fueled by a “white perception of a threat to their social dominance.” Her case, however, is painted in broad strokes and engages in a fair amount of mind reading when it comes to motives.
      ——————————————————————-
      The premise that Whites perceive a threat to their social dominance over non-Whites is fundamentally wrong, because if there were no non-Whites in Western countries, there would be no other race over which Whites could be socially dominant. Also, Whites care less about their alleged “social dominance” than their basic needs, such as survival and safety. The hypothesis that the creation of the concept of race is aimed at the justification of social dominance over other groups is wrong, because if one can observe race oneself and prove race through science, then the creation of the concept of race is not aimed at the justification of social dominance over other groups but aimed at the description of a valid biological entity.

  • MBlanc46

    Some preemptive strikes here. It’s far from impossible that the political correctness Stalinists will succeed in putting an end to genetic research into racial difference.

    • Mergatroyd

      Watch them label it “hate research.”

      • DiversityIsDeath

        Outlawing the study of racial differences as “hate research” isn’t necessary to shut down scientific inquiry. Unless he’s on a self-destructive trip, what researcher would dare venture down this path? For what purpose? To be attacked and vilified, forced into retirement, maybe even put on trial? Only martyrs can endure that kind of abuse. No, easier to go with the politically correct flow and give them the results they want.

      • MBlanc46

        Indeed.

  • Anti-racism in itself is the practice of race denial.

    It’s futile at best and dangerous at worst.

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      Anti-racism is a form of racism that is only directed against Whites. It is not based on science, because it is only based on a general bias against Whites.

  • Ron Hill

    Race doesn’t exist but I’m not Asian, not black, not Middle-eastern, not Native American Indian, not Indian, and not Polynesian. I am white and my ancestors come from Europe.

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      Race doesn’t exist

      What race you are adds little validity to your argument.

      Why do you believe that race does not exist?

      Use valid arguments to back up your claim that race does not exist.

      • LovelyNordicHeidi

        The truth of your claim “race doesn’t exist” has not been established, and you will have to try to use valid arguments to establish the truth of your claim. If you are an honest truth-seeker, it might turn out that your claim is false.

        • Ron Hill

          Because whites like you argue that races exist because of physical differences, mental differences, and differences at the genetic level. The fallacy of this argument is that physical differences, mental differences, and genetic differences vary from groups of people that someone like you would consider to be of the same race so these differences aren’t exclusive to what you would call “race”. For example, there are going to be physical differences, mental differences, and genetic differences even between groups of what you would call “white” people and these differences are well researched and documented. We’ve all heard of the hot-headed Scot or Irishman, the reserved German, and the cold, stand-offish Russian, etc, and we know that the northern Europeans are taller than other Europeans in general and someone like me wouldn’t have a problem distinguishing a eastern European from a western European by physical appearance and demeanor and mannerisms. Again, this has already been researched so it’s nothing new. Your idea of “race” is not clean cut and is very blurred to say the least, so who can really judge what race is and where to draw the line?

          • LovelyNordicHeidi

            I would kindly like to ask the mods to not delete this comment; I am going to reply to this comment tomorrow, because it’s very late now in Europe. I have saved it to my computer just in case.

          • Ron Hill

            Kind of makes you wonder why a website- any website, would censor someone just because they hold a particular point of view. So many white conservatives complain about how they are so many times censored from the mainstream and not allowed to express their views but when someone with an open mind like me comes to a conservative website like this, I am censored for expressing my views? How does that make any sense at all to you? Progress is not made for ANY of us if serious debate and differences of opinion are not allowed. Jared Taylor et al have been kicked out of or refused to be allowed to rent spaces for their yearly conferences quite a few times because people wanted to effectively “censor” them from having their voices heard but they return the favor by censoring people (like me, perhaps?) from a website like this? Heidi, I have no doubt whatsoever that if I were to attend one of Taylor’s conferences and say something that went against HIS particular line of thought he’d kick me out of the conference room! Seriously, Heidi, if both sides (liberal or conservative [or whoever the opponents may be on any given day]), censor people simply for having a differing point of view then that means that one is no better than the other.

          • dd121

            Ron, I post on many liberal websites and get about half of my comments deleted merely for expressing a conservative viewpoint, not being in any way “abusive”. It’s been four hours and your posts are still up. Hope they stay up.

          • LovelyNordicHeidi

            physical differences, mental differences, and genetic differences vary from groups of people that someone like you would consider to be of the same race so these differences aren’t exclusive to what you would call “race”. […] We’ve all heard of the hot-headed Scot or Irishman, the reserved German, and the cold, stand-offish Russian, etc, and we know that the northern Europeans are taller than other Europeans in general and someone like me wouldn’t have a problem distinguishing a eastern European from a western European by physical appearance and demeanor and mannerisms.

            You use ethnicity as an argument against race, but the realities of ethnicity and race are not mutually exclusive. The argument is therefore invalid.

            Because whites like you argue

            someone like you

            I do not recommend making ad hominem attacks, not even subtle ones, because that is not rational. When one is trying to have a rational debate, one must surely not make ad hominem attacks. Ad hominem arguments are invalid, because they are directed at the person who makes the argument rather than the argument of that person. Aditionally, I would like to point out that your assumption that we are all White gentiles is false. There are Jews, Arabs and Blacks here.

            a conservative website like this

            This is not necessarily a conservative website. This is a race realist website, and you would be surprised to know how much the opinions in this community vary from person to person.

            I am censored for expressing my views?

            You are playing the victim. You do not know half how much abuse we would have to suffer if we allowed every race denialist on this website. This website is a place where we are not constantly being targetted with ad hominem attacks. It is unfortunate that our opponents do not try to use rational arguments against our arguments to have a rational debate. This website is a sanctuary for us only because there is a certain censorship of rude and inappropriate comments on this website. I just asked the mods explicitly to not delete your response to me, because although you made some ad hominem attacks, I wanted to try to have a rational debate with you.

            Your idea of “race” is not clean cut and is very blurred to say the least, so who can really judge what race is and where to draw the line?

            You were trying to knock down a straw man, because you have been relying too much in your argumentation on the assumption that what race denialists tell about race realists is true. We acknowledge the realities of both ethnicity and race. Now it is my turn to explain race realism to you.

            We acknowledge that there are many racial and ethnic differences. There are so many examples of those differences that we just have to pick one example and discuss that example. Although race denialists accuse us of always talking about IQ, the easiest example for beginners is still racial differences in IQ. Although the mass media might try to tell you otherwise, it is now well-established that IQ is genetically determined. I would like to refer you to a politically correct, recent article: The Unfortunately Innate Nature of Intelligence, Takimag.

            Some people might scream victory whenever one refers them somewhere, but while I construct my own arguments, I am just referring you somewhere for more details so that you can make up your own mind. Step 1 is to acknowledge that IQ is genetically determined and step 2 is to acknowledge that there are racial differences in IQ. It would be a good start to begin with reading this Wikipedia article: Race and intelligence. I refer you to politically correct articles, because it might be easier for you to start thinking about actual arguments for racial reality when you read those articles. There is a race denialist bias in those articles, but there is also some food for thought.

            This is a race-related article that should be of interest to anyone who debates about race: Natural Selection Has Altered the Appearance of Europeans over the past 5,000 Years, Science Daily.

            A new race-related scientific book will be released on May 6, 2014. It is called A Troublesome Inheritance: Genes, Race and Human History written by Nicholas Wade.

            This is the book description that one can find on Amazon:

            Drawing on startling new evidence from the mapping of the genome, an explosive new account of the genetic basis of race and its role in the human story

            Fewer ideas have been more toxic or harmful than the idea of the biological reality of race, and with it the idea that humans of different races are biologically different from one another. For this understandable reason, the idea has been banished from polite academic conversation. Arguing that race is more than just a social construct can get a scholar run out of town, or at least off campus, on a rail. Human evolution, the consensus view insists, ended in prehistory.

            Inconveniently, as Nicholas Wade argues in A Troublesome Inheritance, the consensus view cannot be right. And in fact, we know that populations have changed in the past few thousand years—to be lactose tolerant, for example, and to survive at high altitudes. Race is not a bright-line distinction; by definition it means that the more human populations are kept apart, the more they evolve their own distinct traits under the selective pressure known as Darwinian evolution. For many thousands of years, most human populations stayed where they were and grew distinct, not just in outward appearance but in deeper senses as well.

            Wade, the longtime journalist covering genetic advances for The New York Times, draws widely on the work of scientists who have made crucial breakthroughs in establishing the reality of recent human evolution. The most provocative claims in this book involve the genetic basis of human social habits. What we might call middle-class social traits—thrift, docility, nonviolence—have been slowly but surely inculcated genetically within agrarian societies, Wade argues. These “values” obviously had a strong cultural component, but Wade points to evidence that agrarian societies evolved away from hunter-gatherer societies in some crucial respects. Also controversial are his findings regarding the genetic basis of traits we associate with intelligence, such as literacy and numeracy, in certain ethnic populations, including the Chinese and Ashkenazi Jews.

            Wade believes deeply in the fundamental equality of all human peoples. He also believes that science is best served by pursuing the truth without fear, and if his mission to arrive at a coherent summa of what the new genetic science does and does not tell us about race and human history leads straight into a minefield, then so be it. This will not be the last word on the subject, but it will begin a powerful and overdue conversation.

            Anyone who wants to know the truth is not afraid of a rational debate, therefore I would like to ask you to continue debating race here with me. Stick around for some days, be critical and stay open-minded. I do not mind seemingly endless discussions as long as we are being rational and making some progress in every post. A rational debate might take very long, but at the end of it we both might have learned something.

          • John

            “Anyone who wants to know the truth is not afraid of a rational debate..” True that. It explains why organizations such as the ADL have put the word out to their adherents that they are under no circumstances to debate the issue with well known truth advocates such as Germar Rudolf, Ernst Zundel, Jurgen Graf and so on. Every time they’ve debated the issue, they’ve had their hats handed to them. Truth wins out in the end. It just needs some time in the sun. Fear of the truth also explains the draconian “denial” laws in Europe. For questioning the “official” story, you can get a more severe jail sentence than you could for a crime of violence such as armed robbery or assault. By the way, that was a wonderfully well constructed and argued reply. I think you “owned” him.

          • John

            Have you considering setting aside some of your comments such as the above and collecting them into a book format? Being serious here. You obviously have a broad and insightful grasp of the matter and are able to organize and present your thoughts on the issues at hand as concisely as anyone I’ve ever read, including myself.

          • LovelyNordicHeidi

            You obviously have a broad and insightful grasp of the matter and are able to organize and present your thoughts on the issues at hand as concisely as anyone I’ve ever read, including myself.

            Your words are motivating!

            What do you like in particular about my previous comment?

          • John

            Glad that they were encouraging but it’s simply my take. It’s late and been a long day here but for starters, your format is superior. Bold face for the quotes and then your rebuttal to follow really adds emphasis to the points you’re bringing get across. To quote you “First I am going to analyse your arguments, and then I am going to explain”. Then you proceed to do just that. That’s what I’m talking about. WN needs more people like you that can articulate our position. Especially if they can do it in person which I think you can. I’m too type “A”. It’d be a disaster. Women like you and laid back guys like Jared Taylor serve our cause best in the public venue. Guys like me probably serve best as “shock troops” etc. if and when we’re needed for that role.

          • LovelyNordicHeidi

            Glad that they were encouraging but it’s simply true.

            What someone says is encouraging if and only if what that person says is true. Feedback, no matter whether positive or negative, is always really valuable if it is constructive, since one can focus on what one needs to improve. When you give others feedback, you are basically telling them: “More of THIS but less of THAT!” or “Work on X as you’re already good at Y!” or “Improve X to improve Y!” or something else of that sort.

            Feedback gives a sense of purpose, and it might stir people like me in the right direction; it is essential for self-improvement. Therefore, I appreciate feedback really much, and it delighted me to get your feedback. I would be glad to get it more often, because I can learn from it. I like to learn.

            WN needs more people like you that can articulate our position.

            Not making oneself understood is one of the most common communication problems. You have surely noticed how many straw man fallacies are committed in online debates.

            Many misunderstandings and misrepresentations of arguments, that might be perceived as straw man fallacies, are not even intentional.

            Not only communication barriers (such as racial background, personal interests, native language, etc.) tend to have a significant influence on the success or outcome of interpersonal communications, but also one’s ability to convey messages that are clear enough to the recipient.

            I always try my best to be as clear as possible, but even if one has learned a lot about communication and language, it remains a challenge to make oneself understood. For example, I studied Niederlandistik, which means Dutch philology, and still I find it challenging to communicate effectively with people.

            If you want to discuss to further discuss the topic of “effective communication” with me, then I am willing to do so, because I might always learn something from such a discussion. There are a couple of interesting online articles on it that we could read and discuss, but it’s all up to you.

          • John

            Sounds like a plan. Try jcc2c-lnh, at, yahoo, dot, com . Custom created for you. I’m leaving on a road trip in just a bit so I’ll check it when I get back. Maybe briefly while on the road if I get a chance.

          • Mergatroyd

            Open mind?

            Dog, I read your posts and you are spouting off the same, unoriginal, lame, silly childish lines that I read all over the ‘net from anti-Whites.

            It’s beyond obvious that you have been brainwashed by your anti-white marxists handlers. You need to go back to them and get your money back!

          • JohnEngelman

            Mergatroyd,

            You flame me for arguing that racial differences are important, and for agreeing with Professor Rushton and Jared Taylor that Orientals are usually more intelligent than white Gentiles.

          • Max

            It is a sidebar for Taylor and Rushton. It is raison d’etre for you.

          • JohnEngelman

            An honest race realist has to acknowledge that Ashkenazi Jews have a higher average IQ than Orientals, who have a higher average than Nordics.

            Likes and dislikes are all very nice. What matters are facts that can be documented.

          • Mergatroyd

            I flame you because the policies you support mean the extinction of the White race.

            You’ve said so repeatedly, do I need to remind you yet again of your own words, John?

            –More proof that whites will end up foot servants for the more intelligent peoples. I for one can’t wait to welcome my Oriental overlords when most work is completely automated and we lesser peoples will have to serve our natural masters. With their higher intelligence, we will be treated with compassion and fairness.

            –John Engelman.

            Doesn’t get any clearer than that, John, your contempt for Whites like me and my children.

            You are an anti-White who promotes race replacement of Whites by Asians and Jews. You deserve every bit of flaming that comes your way and more.

            You deserve nothing but scorn and contempt for calling for the genocide of the White Race.

          • JohnEngelman

            The only time that presumed quote by me has appeared on this website or anywhere else on the internet is when you posted it. If you quote me, do so honestly.

            How is requiring white Gentiles to compete with Orientals and Jews academically and economically “the extinction of the White race?”

          • John

            I haven’t noticed that any of your comments have been “censored”. They have been, however, “censured”. If you really want to get “censored”, say some bad stuff about Jews. They mod you out in a heartbeat. Trust me. I know.

          • Mergatroyd

            Makes you wonder about the Thomas Jefferson quote at the top.

          • John

            Funny that. I tried to bring them to task on that very issue and *that* was deleted too.

          • Ron Hill

            I bet you weren’t even surprised…

          • JohnEngelman

            Yeah, really. I want you to read that quote before complaining about a comment I post.

          • I would argue that racial superiority is strongly correlated with racial competence. Jews are barely successful without Gentile societies to prosper in. Is it true or false? This is a form of incompetent. You need us or else.

            East Asians had to wait for modern civilization to be brought to them. This is form of incompetence. They needed us or else. Both Jews and East Asians benefit from the education not set out by their own people, but set out by White Gentiles. This is yet another form of incompetence.

            White Gentiles, however, and on their own, educate themselves to the highest degree, managed to flourish in the surroundings of their own built societies and scaled the heights of human achievement and civilization. Neither the Jew nor the East Asian was much necessary to achieve this. White Gentile relevance is the greatest of all and without parallel. This is the only real demonstration of superiority the world had ever seen. The competence of the White Gentile race is (technically) superior.

            Marginally higher IQ points of East Asians and Jews did not prevent White Gentiles from achieving far more than either of them – and long before them. This is precisely why your argument is invalid.

            You’re preoccupied with the notion of superiority due to an underling inferiority complex. Superiority is what you want Jews and East Asians to have – not what they do have, or have
            ever demonstrated.

            You can not argue intelligently. You can’t even construct your own argument. All you can do is copy-and-paste quotes from Rushton who obviously can not address my points directly.

          • Ron Hill

            Jews’ slightly higher IQ is due to their higher than average verbal skills while Jews seem to lack in other areas where intelligence is measured. I personally think that the Jewish IQ isn’t that high at all, but Jews like to use the “Jewish high IQ) thing to gain a psychological advantage over gentiles. Or in other words, if a lie is told enough it will be believed and that’s exactly what we are seeing with this “high Jewish intelligence” because many people actually fall for this lie. You are what you eat, right? That’s a major reason why the overall white IQ has dropped significantly over the years as fast-food was introduced into society. White people need to get back to the basics and eat good, natural foods and I guarantee you that our IQs will shoot up and easily surpass the Jews and even the Orientals. Just google “white IQ dropping” and you’ll get a lot of information about what I’m talking about.

          • A moment ago you were denying race…

          • Ron Hill

            I still am. My definition of “race” is very different than yours. I simply don’t believe in any totally “pure” race of people because there aren’t any. However, I do take exception with the Jews. I don’t know why, but they are very different than us. Maybe they have more Neandertal DNA than the rest of us and maybe collectively the retain an ancient memory of a time when we Cro Magnon’s slaughtered them and almost drove them to extinction? Maybe that’s why they have such a deep distrust and hatred towards us?

          • JohnEngelman

            Civilizations rise and fall. Western civilization is in decline. Oriental civilization is rising. Mental aptitude test scores, test scores of actual learning, and the higher number of patents in the Orient than in Europe and the United States demonstrate that the Oriental race has more genetic potential than the race of white Gentiles.

          • But Orientals don’t have our unique genius and that will die with us. Without our command and direction, without anything new to emulate, they will stagnate just as they did for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.

            Funny, Japanese intellects think that innovation will continue in the West even despite America’s fall.

            Whites will have to become an extremely prosecuted and endangered minority before they stop researching, working, and innovating. Remember, all it takes is the exceptional individuals above the norm of White Gentile IQ to bring about a scientific revolution.

            Slightly higher (mean) Oriental IQ has proven to be irrelevant in this regard. Like, how many MORE times do you have to be told? At this point you even discredit Jewish achievement. And stop sexually fantasizing about Oriental ‘potential’. It’s weird.

          • JohnEngelman

            How many more times do I have to remind you that the Orient produces more patent applications every year than the West?

          • El_Baga_Doucha_Libtard

            Reminding people of irrelevant and/or misleading facts does nothing to further your argument.

            I guess that I could remind you (although I’ve never told you before) that Raisin Bran gives me gas. Well fantastic! That’s a true statement, but it does nothing to prove any point (except that I need to lay off the fiber when I have company).

            Until the last week or so, I felt that people on AmRen were too hard on you, but I’m starting to question that. I agree with a lot of what you say (even though I don’t want to agree with you, but as someone who seeks the truth, I must accept facts that I find uncomfortable) and I have even admired your willingness to state unpopular truths on this site. I always considered your attackers to be the dogmatic and unreasonable ones, but you are being dogmatic about the Asian creativity issue.

          • How many more times do have to tell you those ‘patents’ are not original inventions and are not equal to the creativity of White Gentiles.

            Now with your inability to understand something so simple, you’re starting to sound Black. Idiot.

          • JohnEngelman

            They are tangible indications of Oriental creativity and potential.

          • Ron Hill

            Jews like to “leech” off the hard work and innovation of whites. It’s something we’ve always known and it is what led to so many Jewish pogroms. Being a Jew is not something to be proud of but don’t tell Engelman that.

          • Mergatroyd

            Why would I do any you ask?

            You wish to race replace my people, the White race. That makes you a monster.

          • JohnEngelman

            Historically race displacement has only happened when a superior race has displaced an inferior race. What are you afraid of?

          • DiversityIsDeath

            Bingo!

          • Ron Hill

            That’s right, and that’s why this website will accomplish nothing. It simply refuses to address the glaringly obvious- that Jews are the major perpetrators of what is happening in the Western world today and moaning about blacks all the time is totally pointless. I encourage everyone here to go to Kevin MacDonald’s website “The Occidental Observer”, and learn how and why this is happening.

          • JohnEngelman

            I have posted here for three years. I do not argue that the races are equal. I argue that Ashkenazi Jews are superior to the other races, and that Orientals are in second place. I haven’t been banned yet.

          • Japanese are superior to Ashkenazi Jews. Japanese prosper in their own society, Ashkenazi Jews simply do not. This greater level of racial competence can not be ignored.

          • Ron Hill

            Point taken. As a whole, the East Asians are clearly more intelligent than the Ashke(Nazis) and I’ll even go so far as to say that so are the Germanic people of Europe.

          • Perhaps I’ve given you the wrong impression. I wasn’t trying to glorify the East Asian race. I was trying to point out to Engelman that racial competence is not something to be ignored, which it isn’t. Also, because of that, Western Europeans have been the MOST competent with whom brought modern civilization to Japan. A ‘marginal’ higher IQ for East Asians did not bring modern civilization to the west. What is this telling us?

            It is obvious who is actually the superior, not that we should really be talking about it as if it were more important than our survival here.

          • Ron Hill

            It has been well documented that the white IQ has dropped some 15 points over the last 100 years or so. Too many smart people lost in unnecessary wars? Poor health? A bad diet? All of the above, probably but this can be reversed. Engelman claims to not be Jewish but he loves to proclaim them to be the Master Race. Chances are he’s an insecure schmuck with an inferiority complex and that’s why he’s always trying to prop up Jews so he can feel better about his sad, miserable little life.

          • JohnEngelman

            Ashkenazi Jews do well in Israel. They also do well in the United States. It takes more resourcefulness to prosper in another society than in a society one created. Ashkenazi Jews prosper everywhere they go if they are given the chance to compete on even terms.

          • Ron Hill

            Do well? Can’t be too vague, now can we? Israel’s economy is only so-so, it receives massive foreign financial aid from the US every year and gets almost all it’s high technology from US- non-Jewish, mostly white males. Yes, many Jews do well in the US but so do a lot of non-Jews so your claim is invalid. And no, not all Ashkenazi Jews are wealthy- that is only a myth.

          • Ron Hill

            No, Ashke(Nazi) Jews only THINK they’re superior because Jewish scribes claimed that G*d spoke to them and he said they were his “chosen” people. The idea is so ridiculous and I’m not even going to pursue the thought any farther other than to say that what’s even MORE ridiculous is that so many Jews walking with us today actually believe this rubbish that they are special (Read: “Superior”) and you are obviously one of them.
            Are Jews physically superior to other people? More beautiful? Stronger” No, no, and no. In fact, Jews are usually weak and their physical unattractiveness has long been a joke to all us non-Jews.
            Are they smarter? No. While the Jews do have their high IQ faction, so does every other race. In fact, there are probably more high IQ blacks in the world today than there are high-IQ Jews and I’ll bet you on that! And it is obvious that there are many, MANY more high-IQ whites and Asians out there so the Jews can’t even be considered the smartest. The reality is, my friend, is that Jews have such a massive inferiority complex that the only way they can handle it is to fool themselves into believing that they are superior to everyone which is, of course, the ultimate form of denial. As a mechanical engineer who is self-employed and in the auto industry, boasts of intelligence mean nothing to me but solid results from using intellect mean everything to me. You and your Jewish buddies are always good at talking the talk but can you walk the walk? I seriously doubt it…

          • Luca

            You are word twisting. Very similar to changing the subject.

            Races are broad general terms for the types of ” breeds” of humans based on their DNA. We are talking about general racial features within a broad racial group. The word “Race” is simply a convenient word for assigning people into broader groups.

            Although there about 6 distinct African DNA types, we simply refer to all them as an African or negro “race” for the sake of convenience. It is not exactly scientific but is easier to use in common conversation.

            Most people with Asian DNA types have almond shaped eyes, straight dark hair, slight builds, etc. While many people from different groups can have these characteristics, it is a fact that most Asians generally have most of these characteristics. And while there are a number of Asian DNA types, we simply group them together to make life easy.

            I tried very hard to use simple language.

          • Race deniers like to ignore consistency and the patterns of features and instead focus on exclusive features. When they find so few, they go on to say, ‘there are more differences in the races than between them.’

            The fact of the matter is: A round-faced, short-skulled European looks distinctly different from a round-faced, short-skulled East Asian. Regardless of facial length and breadth, the European skull will be projected at the forehead, brow, nose, and chin; the East Asian skull will appear flattened in those areas by comparison. This is very much a rule. The race deniers will focus on the ‘exceptions to the rule,’ in their futile attempts to convince us otherwise.

            If you find the same thing over and over again, it clearly means something significant.

            I don’t buy liberal nonsense for a second.

          • dcc2379

            Forensic anthropologists can identify race through skeletal remains. I’m not just talking about DNA! Race is more than just melanin, as you point out. In today’s world we can celebrate race, like Black History Month or the election of the first mulatto president, but the libtards will not bare to hear any truth that is not positive UNLESS the charge is against whites and, or Republicans.

          • Ron Hill

            “Although there about 6 distinct African DNA types, we simply refer to all them as an African or negro “race” for the sake of convenience.”
            That’s right, for the “sake of convenience”, and that’s why “race” is a manmade construct.

          • dd121

            I’ll draw the line in one place: IQ. There are a lot of other differences but IQ can’t be parsed or sub-divided. When it come to outcomes it tells the whole story. Whites went to the moon while blacks played with stone tools.

          • Ron Hill

            IQ can vary considerably even amongst white siblings, yes or no?
            And those dumb black Africans with their borderline retarded IQs can live in the jungle for years and survive but someone like you (with your allegedly high IQ) wouldn’t even last a week. I guess their are different kinds of intelligence, right?
            And finally, why are you taking credit for the brilliance of a small handful of white men? Could YOU and your buddies at this website build a rocket and put a man on the moon? I don’t think so.

          • dd121

            Learning how to use a bow and arrow to survive is not a form of intelligence; it’s merely weapons training. I didn’t say that I worked at NASA but it was mostly whites with a few asians. BTW, I was an IBM Systems Programmer. I never met a black who could do that.

          • Mergatroyd

            Tim Wise says the White Race doesn’t exist and is merely a “social construct.”

            He also says he can’t wait for White (which doesn’t exist) hearts to stop beating.

            Was it Tim Wise who brainwashed you into hating the White race?
            Was it Tim Wise who convinced you that “the White race is a social construct” (while he waits for our hearts to stop)?

          • Ron Hill

            Nope, I just use reasoning and logic. I’ve never been a big fan of “the tribe” and realize the role they have played in disenfranchising “whites” while you people are more intent upon targeting blacks even though they are only a symptom of a much more serious ailment. I couldn’t care less if Wise and his group disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow, to be perfectly honest.

          • Ron Hill

            And by the way, I don’t hate the “white race”. I just want you to accept that tribalism and group identity are what should be focused on and not “race” because “race” is much too broad and blurry to even be taken seriously, to be perfectly honest.

          • Sloppo

            Perhaps you should sell real estate in downtown Detroit. I understand that many properties are available there for less than $10,000 and you could explain to prospective buyers that their neighbors are just as good as the ones anywhere else. If they try to bring up the fact that Africans have pretty much already destroyed the place, just say “who can really judge what race is and where to draw the line?”

          • Ron Hill

            So poor meth head whites behave any better? Well, what’s your answer?

          • Sloppo

            Drugs can make people of any race behave like animals. Detroit is a normal African community.

          • Ron Hill

            So what’s the end goal for people like you? Do you want to secede and form your pure white country or do you want to ship all the blacks back to Africa? Or maybe you want to kill them all? Or castrate the men and make them impotent? What is your goal? Why whine and bicker and moan and fret on a website when you don’t even have a goal?

          • Sloppo

            What is the goal which makes you whine, bicker, moan, and fret on this website?

      • Ron Hill

        The concept of “race” was an alien concept throughout most of our history. TRIBES were what people focused on, not one’s so-called “race”. The Lapps of Finland look white and act white and for all intents and purposes ARE white but they do have a considerable amount of mongoloid DNA which was surprising to geneticists who mapped their DNA. I bet if Jared Taylor and you guys lived in Finland and had the power and political clout you’d kick them out of Finland even though they’ve lived there for thousands of years? Is that what you would do?

      • Ron Hill

        Just out of curiosity, is that you in that pic you have up?

    • ‘I am white and my ancestors come from Europe.’

      So, what are you trying to tell us? You have just validated yourself and obviously for a reason, despite claiming that ‘race doesn’t exist,’ prior to that. This means you recognize your own denial.

      Anti-racism in itself is the practice of race denial.

      Liberalism is the degradation of mentality.

      And YOU are a damn fool.

      • Ron Hill

        My point is that race is not as clean cut as you would like for it to be. In fact, race is a relatively new concept (only a few hundred years old) and before that people were tribal and they had no real understanding of “race”. Back in the day, Tar Tars sent raiding parties up to the northern lands (Ukraine and Russia) to capture people who were then sold as slaves to the Arabs. It was a booming trade for years and years altho the Ukrainians, Russians, and Tar Tars are considered “white” but the Arabs are not. So why would the Tar Tars sell other “white” people to non-whites? It’s simple- because there WAS NO concept of race. The Tar Tars considered their tribe a separate people and felt that they had nothing in common with the Ukrainians and Russians, and as a result they had no problem selling “whites” to nonwhites. The Vikings were also into the slave trade and sold thousands upon thousands of European “whites” to northern Africans. And why? Because people at the time were TRIBAL and had no concept of race! You know, when I go to Britain and sit in the pubs I will hear quite a few people (especially when they get drunk) complain of all the immigrants. Of course they complain about the nonwhite immigrants but do you no what is so funny about it? They also complain about the eastern European immigrants- especially the Polish immigrants, because (Quote) “they are not like us”. Yep, the Poles are “white” but the Brits don’t care! Let’s just face the facts here, shall we? Mr. Taylor and most of you people are just trying to protect your way of life and not really your “race” at all even though you have fooled yourselves into believing it. I bet every one of you has a relative (maybe a great grandfather who brought home a Japanese bride from the war or an aunt who married some guy from south of the border) who married outside of your “race” but you didn’t even care just so long as that non-white person tried to assimilate and ACT LIKE YOU. It’s the truth and you know it. Have you ever asked yourselves why the main focus of this website is to attack and demean blacks? It’s simple: It’s because blacks are the polar opposite of you and the least likely to be able to (or attempt to) act like you and assimilate into your “culture”. Believe me, you people (in your deepest of hearts) have no problem with intermarrying with non-whites and living with non-whites, etc, just so long as the non-whites are the RIGHT KIND OF NON-WHITES (i.e. not black) and will learn to act like you and “become a true American”. Why, even Jared Taylor admits that he deeply respects the Japanese and I’m damned well willing to bet that Jared would have no problem having a few Japanese families move into his neighborhood or even seeing his son marry a Japanese woman just so long as they “became American”. But let’s get back to the gist of the matter. You people are afraid of losing your power and influence and culture (i.e. way of life) and it really has nothing to do with what you think of as “race”.

        • That wall of text is straining my grey eyes.

          To cut a long argument short, ‘race’ has become an important concept DUE to the mass immigration forced in western nations. Before that, nobody really thought much about it. The false assumption of liberalism is that we can end ‘white racism’ with multiculturalism and diversity, when in fact, it causes racism between all races to appear in the first place!

          • Mergatroyd

            We are “White” when it comes to “past bad acts,” like slavery, colonialism, Jim Crow, but a “social construct” when it comes to advocating for white civil rights.

            Calling us whites a “social construct” or claiming that “the white race doesn’t exist” is a narrative used to demean, demoralize and belittle whites. It is used to dehumanize us and those who are not human or “don’t exist” are easy to replace or eliminate, because hey, WE DON’T EXIST. People who don’t exist have NO right to a homeland, civil rights or advocacy for their own race because they DON’T EXIST.

            I’ve NEVER heard anyone say “Asian is a social construct.” Try telling Jews that they’re merely a “social construct” – and you’ll get called every name for anti-semite there is plus have your career threatened.

            Anyone who claims whites “don’t exist” is an anti-white who supports the race-replacement and genocide of the white race.

            Do not EVER let them get away with it.

          • Ron Hill

            Well, I’m married to a Chinese woman and guess what, my son looks just like me. In fact, ALL of my white friends love my wife to death. Too bad people like you (And Jared Taylor) can’t look beyond the color of someone’s skin.

          • I seriously doubt that A White-Chinese kid looks simply White as you’ve implied. That is impossible. Though it might have been a fantasy of your Chinese wife. She probably hooked up with you in a pathetic, desperate bid to get a White child that can only be born from a White mother of course. Good luck with your mixed insult of a kid you traitor.

          • Ron Hill

            Nope, not an old dirty guy- been married to my wife for 15 years and have a 13-year-old son who came out looking very much like dear old dad and I’m proud of him. I do not resent you or look down on you for being less educated than me or not being financially “secure” so I will reply to your posts. My wife has a MBA and is obviously educated and she comes from a wealthy family so there’s nothing desperate about her. Sometimes love just happens and love is a powerful thing. She went to the US to finish her degree and we met in school and things just happened. I never thought I’d marry an Asian woman but that’s exactly what I did and to be honest I don’t regret it. As a rule, Chinese women are smarter than white women, have better business acumen, are more committed to a relationship and raising a family and are basically just better women. And they also are less vocal than white women are and prefer not to argue unless the are pushed too far. I like that. And yes, the sex life I have with my wife is excellent!

        • Mergatroyd

          Tell that to the government who clearly define us as white when it comes to anti-white programs (pogroms) like affirmative action, college scholarships, quotas in hiring, government jobs, demands on private employers to “diversify.”

          While you’re at it you can ask Bill Gates why his foundation provides large scholarships to every racial group EXCEPT for white.

          Clearly, Bill Gates and the government know who is and isn’t white.

        • John

          Yes, we are afraid of losing our culture because it is an ongoing phenomenon, influence has already been stolen, and most importantly, we are afraid of losing our race. According to your view, since there are and can be so many racial permutations, it’s a non consideration. I have the sense that most of the people that frequent this site have beliefs just the opposite. At the end of the day, race matters. The behaviors of non whites is just as predictable as who’s going to win the race, the poodle or the greyhound. That’s why Japanese neighbors are desirable over blacks any day. Compare and contrast the behaviors of the two groups in a crisis situation; New Orleans and the massive earthquake in Japan a few years ago. Blacks sent NO to hell in a handbag pretty quick. There were articles all over even the MSM remarking about how they couldn’t believe there wasn’t even any looting in Japan in the midst of the crisis. Case closed.

      • LovelyNordicHeidi

        And YOU are a damn fool.

        Flame, don’t be too hard on him, OK? He might come to see the light if we give him some time. However, if he starts making very rude or inappropriate comments, the mods will step in and delete him. Let’s relax and see what happens.

      • Ron Hill

        You people are clowns. Years ago this site was actually decent but it has been hijacked by old paranoid racists who openly show their disdain and contempt for ALL non-whites but especially blacks.

        • Blacks are small fry for me. I’m far more into discussing Asians.

          • Ron Hill

            Then discuss them. Why do you feel threatened by Asians? I’ve lived half my life in Asia and in the Chinese community so let me dispel your fears and give you an insight as to what these people are really like.

    • Mergatroyd

      Strange how that works, isn’t it? Cultural marxists like Tim Wise claim that race is a “social construct,” but for Whites and Whites ONLY.

      When it comes to affirmative action, “past bad acts,” racism, colonialism, quotas, scholarships, advocacy groups, hate groups, political entities, college slots, and other anti-white discrimination, THEN the White race is VERY clearly defined.

  • Anon

    It’s a mistake to appeal to science for something that is common sense and plainly observable. It invites unreasonable supposition, standards and arguments in bad faith.
    To say race is biological, genetic etc. is to imply way more information about such things than we currently have. And is besides the point. Race is clearly observable. And all sorts of mental gymnastics are being used to deny to obvious.
    Like:
    1. The fact there are no non-white contributions to what is called “civilization”.
    2. That words like altruism, love, goodness, nobility, decency, morality etc. are traits inherit in almost all whites, relatively rare in Asians and not only absent but despised in blacks. The terms themselves are a distortion….implying they exist without whites when there is no evidence at all that they do. Whenever you use one of those words, you are talking about a white person.
    3. The inverse can also be said. When you hear about a rape, robbery, murder, assault, cruelty, depravity, evil…..you don’t have to look up the race of the person who did it….that person is reliably black.
    4. These things are true yet most police sketches are race neutral.
    5. These things are true but you don’t see them on the news.
    6. These things are true, yet the opposite is in every movie, TV show, even commercials.
    When you appeal to science, those who collaborate with these things go, well, you don’t have a study showing conclusively that this particular gene is linked to those behaviors. When you discover it, they go well, you haven’t proved that it is a 100% correlation. When you prove that, they go well, one day we’ll have genetic therapies to fix that. When you discover that, it will be somehow racist to change them. And when that fails….well, dump science…..and lynch the heretic. You see various forms of all of this.
    Far better to stand firm, force everyone to admit the obvious and back that up with power.
    Kick all non-whites out of all white countries and hang those who disagree. Well, that’s racist. Yes it is….and it does not matter.
    The point is we do not need JUSTIFICATION for these things. And to provide it, even if its good justification, only invites manipulation. You understand? You prove a point so you must need to prove a point….and do it over and over and over.
    We do not need to prove a point. Whites need to punish those of us behaving badly and force them to stop allowing monsters into our communities.

  • Romulus

    @Moderator
    PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY MY COMMENT ON THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DELETED!.
    It’s really starting to bug me. Informing the reading audience of the very real consequences of an Article 5 constitutional convention to the bill of rights and the constitution are of paramount importance.

    • Alexandra1973

      Last I heard not enough states approve of it…what’s the status on that?

  • Romulus

    The essence of the post was this,… The states are 3 shy of convening a con con, but don’t be fooled by LEVINE’s BOOK. While speaking with Mr. J. McManus of the J. Birch society, it is inherently dangerous to our sacred documents to convene an Article 5, which is why we haven’t ever had another . When asked what kind of government America had agreed upon at the last and only con con, Franklin said “A REPUBLIC, IF YOU CAN KEEP IT”

  • The White mother of a White-Black kid will be genetically and physically closer to a strangers White kid than to her own.

    The White father of a White-Asian kid will be genetically and physically closer a strangers White kid than to her own.

    This is the reality of race folks. Do not forget it.

  • ShermanTMcCoy

    It simply goes to show you that we cannot co-exist with liberal race deniers. They destroy everything they touch. We need our own country.

  • Sloppo

    “This awareness that DNA can be so sorted has prompted a crisis in the social sciences, however, where it’s a truism that race is entirely a social construct.”

    Apparently, truth = fantasy “in the social sciences”.

    • Mergatroyd

      “Social science” is an oxymoron.

  • Mergatroyd

    “It was one of the high points of President Bill Clinton’s speech in 2000 announcing ….regardless of race, are more than 99.9 percent the same.”

    Bill Clinton lied about everything. Anyone who would take anything Clinton said at face value is a fool.

  • DNA Explains It All

    Thread closed! Just posted one reply and tried another, BAM. The door is slammed. Not surprising as the Chronicallay biased is known to be some serious leftist crap.

    • Alexandra1973

      I don’t see the comments section at all now!

  • DNA Explains It All

    I just loved the allegation of Mr. Taylor being a “professional racist”, as we all know just how well that position pays, don’t we. Like Mr. Taylor with his education and eloquence could not have sold out Europeans to FAR GREATER profit to himself. Seems anti-racists are all that actually GET PAID for their troubles.

    • Mr. Taylor isn’t in the least bit racist. He just recognizes racial reality for what it is. Denial is futile and he knows it. Though I suppose he doesn’t qualify by liberal-elite definition since he doesn’t embrace in the demise of his own people. That’s what one must do to be considered, well, not racist.

  • Ron Hill

    No, YOU are wrong. How do you define “white”? What does being “white” mean to you?

    • Are you still sniffing about?

    • Henry Steyer

      Whites are those with which I want to live, no need to prove that there exist for that. It seems that anti-racism and the obsession with the idea that races do not exist has something to do with the repressed guilt at participating in the extinction of our races, our groups if you prefer.

  • disqus_Xz3UA6obwj

    It will never be impossible for people to deny the biological reality of race any more than it will ever be impossible for people to deny the biological reality of death ending personal memory and awareness. If people can deny what a corpse so plainly represents then people can deny the biological truth about race. The vast majority of people are NOT intellectually honest.

  • disqus_Xz3UA6obwj

    High IQ represents little to nothing then if they can be so easily duped into abandoning reason and following any ideology.

  • This genetic ‘potential’ of Orientals should be bringing about a scientific revolution as we speak. They are not. In fact, they are sending their spies to ‘steal’ technological information from the US. And still putting their kids in western schools, colleges and universities also does not suggest that the East is a mecca of intelligence.

    The higher number of ‘patents’ only reinforces that, indeed, East Asian ‘potential’ is
    that of great emulation and superior memorization. They need command and direction from their superiors to proceed further.

    • LovelyNordicHeidi

      This genetic ‘potential’ of Orientals should be bringing about a scientific revolution as we speak. They are not.

      Maybe non-White IQ is not the same as White IQ. Maybe we are not comparing apples with apples. Maybe a certain White IQ does not imply the same potential as an equivalent non-White IQ. We have already seen that an IQ of 80 has different effects on Blacks than Whites. Maybe it is the same with East Asians. Maybe we have to start thinking differently about IQ and its implications. Maybe we have to start acknowledging that not only average IQ scores differ among the races, but also that the implications of certain IQ scores differ among the races.

  • Engelman is a Jewish supremacist who glorifies in the demise of the White Race for it is the only way for Jews and Orientals to ‘take over the world’. He is a racist and a supremacist,
    and our greatest enemy.