What Does Nigel Farage Have in Common with Marine Le Pen? Wrong Question!

James Delingpole, Telegraph (London), January 10, 2014

Ukip and France’s Front National are closer than the former will admit, says Marine Le Pen.

Is this true?

Both are led by funny, attractive, charismatic leaders who have had quite enough of the usual politicking by the usual self-interested politicians; both want to restore their nation’s sense of pride and its sovereignty over Brussels. And for further details on what Le Front National believes or doesn’t believe I commend this article in Standpoint.

So what are the Front National’s policies? These were clearly set out before 4,500 rapturous party members in a recent speech by Marine Le Pen in Marseilles. The predominant theme was the restoration of national sovereignty. In terms of specifics, this was taken to mean withdrawal from the EU and the euro, the protection of the French economy from “unfair” competition and the forces of globalisation, priority for French citizens in jobs and housing, an end to mass immigration, a tough stance on law and order issues and a reassertion of French cultural identity. It also means a strong and independent France in defence and foreign affairs.

There are major differences too, though. Ukip’s impulses are far more libertarian and small government than the essentially statist Front National’s. Also, the traditions from which it springs are much more British. The French revere the state in a way that few Britons ever really could: they had Louis XIV and Napoleon; they like that kind of thing; we don’t.

Let me pose a different question, though, and one which I think addresses the far more important underlying issue: why does Nigel Farage have to tread on eggshells when the subject is raised?

Nigel Farage, the head of Ukip, ruled out joining forces, stating on Thursday: “We keep getting this every fortnight or so don’t we? Look, we’ve made it clear that we don’t intend to do a political deal at any point with French National Front.”

The answer, of course, that he operates in a world where for years the terms of the debate have been defined almost exclusively by the liberal-left. For example, I have a suspicion that a Britain run by the Green party would be a country subject to no less toxic and destructive a form of extremism than were it run by the BNP; that President Hollande’s sclerotic socialism is but a cigarette paper away from Marine Le Pen’s commitment to nationalisation and protectionism; that–with notable exceptions like Greece’s vile and genuinely fascistic Golden Dawn–the anti-EU parties springing up across the Continent are truer to the principles of democracy than the European Union. Yet our lazy and parti-pris media–even many newspapers notionally on the right-wing side of the debate–continue to do the liberal-left’s dirty work for it by labelling any party with instincts which are nationalistic, anti-immigration, or anti-EU as belonging to the “far-right”–and therefore automatically beyond the pale of reasoned political discourse. The loons of the green-left, on the other hand, get a more or less free pass to spout their anti-democratic drivel at will.

This sly trick was eloquently exposed by Dan Hannan in a recent Spectator article.

To lump together fascist parties (Golden Dawn in Greece, Ataka in Bulgaria, Jobbik in Hungary, the BNP) with bellicose but essentially constitutional anti-immigration movements (FN in France, PVV in the Netherlands, Freedom Party in Austria) is clumsy. To add in eurosceptic parties of the democratic right (AfD in Germany, Mouvement pour la France, Danish People’s Party, Ukip) is deliberately tendentious.

When someone groups all these parties together under the label ‘extreme right’, he is telling you more about himself than about them. Parties like Golden Dawn are not right-wing in any recognisable sense. They favour workers’ councils, higher spending, state-controlled industries; they march on May Day under red flags. They could just as easily sit at either end of the European Parliament’s hemicycle (our closest equivalent, in its combination of mystical nationalism and loathing for capitalism, is Sinn Féin). Calling such parties right-wing isn’t intended to make anyone think less of them; it’s intended to damage mainstream conservatives by implying that the difference between them and the Nazis is one of degree.

Something similar has been going on for years–since 1968 to be precise–with the debate about immigration. It has been effectively closed down thanks to a speech given by a great classicist, poet and distinguished war veteran (one of only two men to have risen from private to brigadier) warning of the break-down of social cohesion which might occur as a result of unchecked immigration.

This is the subject of another excellent article in the Spectator, this time by Rod Liddle.

Dermot Murnaghan tripped up Mr Farage by the devilishly clever tactic of reading him some anodyne quotes from Powell’s exciting and controversial ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech and asking Farage if he agreed with them. But only later did he reveal that they were the words of the sulphurous Antichrist Powell! Brilliant. The quote Murnaghan used was about how mass immigration had led people to consider themselves strangers in their own neighbourhoods and placed a bit of a strain on local infrastructure. Farage, like I suspect a good 60 per cent of the population, nodded along in agreement, and the trap was sprung. Ha! You love Enoch, you do. You probably want to marry him.

A terrific ploy. They must take it further. When David Cameron is a guest on the Murnaghan Show, Dermot should ask him if he agrees with the following: ‘As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have a duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.’ And when the Prime Minister says yep, that’s me, down to the bone, Dermot can pounce: ‘Hitler said that! You’re Hitler, you are.’ And for Nick Clegg: ‘I’m quite modest. I don’t want to tell people I’m a leader.’ That’s Pol Pot! Nick’s Pol Pot! Maybe if they have Archbishop Welby on one day they can ask him if he agrees with this: ‘Man is subject to certain desires and needs which are as natural to his being as they are to that of any other animal.’ And then reveal that it comes from the head of Stalin’s NKVD, Laventiy Beria, you evil episcopal bastard, who do you think you’re fooling with this love and peace rubbish? You want to eliminate enemies of the state in a dark basement.

So, no, I don’t remotely blame Nigel Farage for his awkwardness on the Marine Le Pen front. I do very much blame the utterly dishonest, intellectually and morally bankrupt, bien-pensant culture which has made such awkwardness necessary.

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  • Martel

    Its strange reading reasonable commentary in a mainstream newspaper., its almost like a hallucination.

    • MekongDelta69

      You didn’t read that. You just think you did.

      It was a hallucination.

    • Pro_Whitey

      Well, I didn’t like the throwing of Golden Dawn under the bus. They are located at a major crossing point of illegal immigration into Europe and bear the brunt end of it. To me they are like Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County, who has to take up the tasks the federal government disdains, and he is as reviled as Golden Dawn. Plus the Greeks are not rich or subtle about how they act, so you can expect some rough edges. Greece for Greeks, is that so awful?

      • Martel

        . The Greeks have to do whatever must be done to protect their nation from this invasion.

      • curri

        The Brits never got over WWII-in their minds they’re still fighting it. It’s like they think GD is going to invade Poland.

      • sbuffalonative

        Yes, I didn’t like the way he derided GD and others. He seems to be doing what he opposes others doing; broad generalizations to impugn opponents.

  • MLP is the closest credible political leader and the FN the closest credible political party to genuine ethnonationalism that the Western world has to offer.

    Farage and the UKIP are aracial rightists who are bottom feeding off the Tories and their failure to follow through on hobby horse rightist causes that have not much if anything to do with race.

    Wasn’t hard, now was it?

    • What about Jobik, or whoever, in Hungaria that caused such a kerfluffle last year with their new constitution? I thought they were, more or less, ethnonationalistic.

      • I guess I’d have to include them, too. But Jobbik has been making noises about siding with Turkey and being permissive of Muslim immigration.

        • I didn’t know that, I don’t really follow european politics outside of occasional things like this.

        • curri

          I don’t think Hungary is allowed to have its own immigration policy. Jobbik seems to be forming alliances with semi-traditionalist countries (Russia and Turkey) that are not particularly friendly to cultural Bolshevism. I like the fact that Jobbik supported Syria against the Molotov-Ribbentropesque alliance of US, EU, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

        • Long Live Dixie

          But Jobbik has been making noises about siding with Turkey and being permissive of Muslim immigration.

          It’s worse than that. Jobbik not only wants an alliance with the Turks, they also claim the Hungarian people are part-Turkish.

    • SoulInvictus

      And yet I’d still take Farage over anyone in the GOP…
      I’ve watched quite a few of his interviews and public statements, and the ones where he speaks before the other Euro leaders are priceless.
      He has mostly common sense views on nationalism, immigration and diversity. Frequently acknowledges how it doesn’t work and hopes to avoid the inevitable conflict and angrier nationalist politics that will come from it.

  • NeanderthalDNA

    What’s wrong with “fascism”?

    The fasces were the symbol of authority for the Lictors of the Roman Republic, a form of government very arguably “democratic” in nature.

    You simply can’t trust anything the MSM reports about nationalist movements. They are partisan and do everything they can to discredit, not to report.

    Chop chop!

    • Manaphy

      Engelman will probably throw a fit after reading this, but there is actually NOTHING wrong with Fascism. Under Fascism, whites were strong, proud, united and brave. Fascists did not let Zulus marry their daughters. Fascists did not let “non-Eskimos” take over their governments and media. Fascists did not allow their cultures to disintegrate. If you are against Fascism, then you are part of the problem.

      • Spartacus

        If Engelman lived in the third Reich, he wouldn’t have to worry about his life every time he walks out the door…

        • White Light

          He would have been imprisoned for not being a “proper German” in his political views long ago….

          • Spartacus

            Don’t worry, he would never have the guts to speak in public like that, at least not faced with real consequences .

      • So CAL Snowman

        Spot on Manaphy. IF the White race is to survive we need to unite under the banner of Fascism. Fascism has been demonized because of *surprise* World War 2. Fascism is EVERYTHING our current “government” is not. I’m not saying it’s a viable long term solution, but in the short run, fascism can win the day for us if we simply choose to embrace it rather than squealing in indignation because the evil Nazis were fascists.

        • Manaphy

          If white soldiers had saw what would happen to their country once they won the war, then they would have turned around.

          • RisingReich

            My Father, who is 87 and fought in WWII – is grappling with this very thought.

            He sees the ‘world as we know it’ and the social minefield his Son has to navigate and is sickened by it, but powerless to turn back the hands of history.

            I have been able to get him to admit “The world couldn’t have ended up any worse if The Reich were still around” – at least for us Whites still left on this planet.

            Someday Europe is going to re-discover this fact when they realize they are in the middle of the 4th Crusade over there…

          • Martel

            Look for Nicholas Pringle on Amazon, he wrote a book with letters from British world war two veterans which he collected by putting adds for his book in british papers, some of those letters also talk about what they feel about modern society. He might like to hear he isn’t the only vet who thinks about it the same way.

          • TeutonicKnight67

            General Patton saw this clearly, and paid the price.

      • White Light

        I don’t like the lack of freedom of speech and democracy, to say nothing of the policy of the actual Fascist state to side with Hitler.

        • anew

          Fascism is not necessarily incompatible with free speech.

      • jeffaral

        People use to equal Italian Facism with German National Socialism: NS was based on blood and soil while fascism was more of a social and economic doctrine applied to Italy; Mussolini even considered Lybians to be Muslim Italians; Fascism wasn’t a racialist ideology. Can you imagine for e.g. of Sicilians being proud of their “White-European” heritage when many of their ancestors hail from North Africa?

        • TeutonicKnight67

          And let’s not forget Fascist Spain which beat back the bolshevik international hordes! Viva Franco!! Viva Espana!

    • Philosophical and metaphorical and rhetorical question, about the fasces.

      Which is the more crucial element to it? The tightness of the yoke that binds the rods together, or the likeness of the rods that are so bound together?

      • NeanderthalDNA

        Hmmm…both important, I’d say…

        I like the axe part myself…

        CHOP CHOP!

      • So CAL Snowman

        The likeness of the rods that are so bound together. I don’t think you can have fascism in a multicultural country. Fascism by it’s very definition is a national movement. A nation is defined as a large group of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history. How do bind people together that don’t even speak the same language?

        • I know you got it, and most people who read my question and the subsequent responses got it, but in case there are a few people who are still lost — Metaphorically, the likeness of the rods in the fasces refers to the similarity of the people that live in a fascist form of government, and the tightness of the yoke refers to the repressive nature of a fascist government.

          The American politically correct hive mind worries about the yoke, while the European politically correct hive mind worries about the likeness of the rods.

    • Bobbala

      It depends on whether you value liberty or state control. Black Africans typically love it. White Americans, usually not so much.

      /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
      1. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

      • NeanderthalDNA

        Italian fascist thought was a bit more nuanced than that, very difficult to pin down.

        I’d argue it was never so systematized as was say Marxism.

        It can be argued that it was a lot more pragmatic than that, and I’d argue that as a form of nationalism it could take very different forms based on the national character of those practicing it.

        Besides…we must learn to define ourselves and to Hell with our enemies’ slander. Build anew, forge forward, apologize to nobody.

        A free and vigorous people determines it’s own parameters.

  • Spartacus

    If anything good is to come to our race, it will not come by elections. We cannot win in systems that are completely controled by our enemies, by an alien tribe whose sole purpose is to exterminate the Race and it’s Nations. If you want to do something for your Race, then look at the symptoms of the collapse, and try to accelerate them as best as you can, while preparing yourself for what comes afterwards .

  • curri

    Blaming Enoch Powell again. It gets very tiresome.

    • White Light

      What Powell said has been previously called “the mainstream” he was unlucky enough to have said it at the exact time when the cultural marxists decided to exercise their growing power.

      • Einsatzgrenadier

        Enoch Powell was one of the greatest prime ministers Great Britain never had.

  • Sangraal

    ‘Parties like Golden Dawn are not right-wing in any recognisable sense.’

    I guess I’m a lefty then…
    Blood before Gold, my ‘conservative’ compatriots…

    • RisingReich

      Blood and Soil!

      • jeffaral

        Blut und Boden!

  • David Ashton

    There are things wrong and things right with UKIP. So long as it cuts into the Labour vote before the next “election” it will be worth backing as a protest vote to accompany the abstention by a large section of the electorate disillusioned by Liblabcon “centre ground” anti-patriotism. Let Farage be “our Kerensky”, and look for “our Lenin”.

    • Long Live Dixie

      Is Labour as anti-German as UKIP is?

      • David Ashton

        A difficult one. “New” Labour is officially pro-EU & friendly to its German social democrats and PC ideology. UKIP is anti-EU and has old guys still fighting WW2 as an anti-German rather than just a pro-British cause. Anti-German and anti-Nazi themes are recycled regularly in the media of all political persuasions. The big thing is public hostility to never-ending multi-cultural mass-immigration, a working-class sentiment, which undermines Labour, and regarding which UKIP represent an opposition icon, albeit more symbolically in in actual policy. Both have Friends of Israel groups; I don’t think they have Friends of German ones. Farage is married to a German, and is well-disposed to Europe in a cultural sense. Miliband married a Gentile at a village registry centre.

      • frederickdixon

        Is UKIP anti-German? Despite Farage being married to a German? If it gives that impression it’s merely because mainstream German politicians are the most earnest and “thorough” in their Europhilia. We had a good example of that just today when the German Foreign Minister accused UKIP of endangering peace in Europe”! Absurd of course, but very illuminating too – and not about UKIP.

    • I thought UKIP largely bled off of the Tories.

      • David Ashton

        It has been doing so. This could enable a return of Labour and no chance of an EU referendum. That’s why UKIP must continue its drive for Labour votes in the north, and make constituency arrangements not to stand against any of the few MPs who have some residual patriotism (e.g. Frank Field). But will it?

  • WR_the_realist

    Today “far right” just means opposed to mass immigration and illegal immigration, and in favor of national sovereignty. So by that definition John Engleman is far right.

    I’m more pro peace and pro environment than any of the Democrats currently sitting in congress, and I’m far right too.

    • David Ashton

      On some matters the Nordic Episcopalian who loves Judaism and wants to live in China is far wrong.

      • bilderbuster

        True, but he would still be to the right of Romney.

  • John Ambrose

    Fact: Until 1968 the US and UK’s immigration laws were crafted with the implicit desire that the migrant flow consist primarily of whites. Same goes for Canada until 1967 and Australia till 1972.
    So, using the standards of the modern leftists the Anglophone world of the 1950s to mid 60s was a racist, fascist place chock-full of Neo-Nazis and their sympathizers.
    As a result, if any mainstream politician today suggested we favor white immigrants over non-whites they’d never hear the end of it.

    • David Ashton

      It was a crazy world. We teachers were first told to disregard the colour of our pupils and treat them impartially all the same, and then told that we must take into account the colour, culture and country of each and every pupil of overseas origin. Racism on Friday was anti-racism the following Monday. That is just one story I could tell about the whole nonsense.

  • Rhialto

    What’s that! Liberals use language to manipulate the masses, rather than describe reality. I came to that conclusion 50 years ago. That’s when the Liberals accused the John Birch society of being responsible for the assassination of Prez Kennedy.

  • Cobbett

    UKIP are plastic patriots…they’ve even got a ‘Friends of Israel’ group. And Farage wants to encourage more Jews to join the party, to counter the ‘fruitckes’.