Robots Undercut the Case for More Immigrants

David Frum, The Daily Beast, February 4, 2014

Before we talk about immigration, let’s talk about robots.

The next 10 years are expected to see a revolution in the application of Artificial Intelligence to every day tasks. Cars and trucks may soon drive themselves. Just as ATMs replaced bank clerks, so too new checkout machines will hugely reduce the need for retail clerks. The need for human labor in construction, meatpacking, and food preparation seems certain to contract.

Most economists expect that the next decade will see downward pressure upon wages reach into the professions. Much of what junior architects do will be robotized. Ditto bookkeepers and accountants. Ditto pharmacists. Ditto lawyers.

{snip}

President Obama cited these realities [of a shrinking middle class] in his State of the Union address last week.

Today, after four years of economic growth, corporate profits and stock prices have rarely been higher, and those at the top have never done better.  But average wages have barely budged.  Inequality has deepened.  Upward mobility has stalled.  The cold, hard fact is that even in the midst of recovery, too many Americans are working more than ever just to get by—let alone get ahead.  And too many still aren’t working at all.

Our job is to reverse these trends.

But in fact, the president’s most important policy proposal to Congress—the Schumer-Rubio immigration reform—would exacerbate the trends he deplores.

In the debate over “paths to citizenship” and “enforcement first,” we can lose sight of what “immigration reform” most fundamentally means to the future American labor market: a massive new influx of low-wage workers.

The United States already receives between 700,000 and 800,000 legal immigrants a year. (Before the economic crisis, the U.S. received an additional half-million illegal immigrants annually. Illegal migration slowed after 2009. It’s anybody’s guess how well the various enforcement measures in Schumer-Rubio will work as economic activity accelerates in the years ahead.)

Including the newly legalized, Schumer-Rubio will admit potentially 30 million lawful residents to the United States over the next decade, triple the admissions expected under current law.

Many business leaders argue that the United States needs to attract more highly skilled immigrants. But do the arithmetic, and you’ll see that Schumer-Rubio will continue to hold the door widely open to the least skilled. The bill allots up to 250,000 limits to certain occupational specialties. Half of these visas are reserved for low-skilled workers. Schumer-Rubio dramatically accelerates family reunification immigration, now and in future far and away the largest category of migration. The people most able to make use of family reunification visas are the most recent arrivals—and recent immigrants are much more likely to be poor and unskilled than the native-born or longer-settled immigrants. The foreign-born population of the United States is nearly twice as likely as the native-born to be poor. They are four times more likely not to have completed high school. They are 50 percent more likely to depend on a major social assistance program—an even more arresting statistic than it looks, since something over one-quarter of the foreign-born are present illegally, and therefore ineligible for most social programs. Their relatives back home are likely to resemble them in terms of education, skill, and income potential.

More immigration therefore almost certainly would mean more poverty and intensified inequality even if all else held constant.

Almost certainly, though, all else will not hold constant. If the next decade brings still heavier downward pressure on wages—and even higher returns to capital investment and to unique skills—then Schumer-Rubio will exert an even more extreme pro-poverty, pro-inequality effect.

{snip}

More immigrants mean more people who will need social assistance. More than one-fourth of the pre-Obamacare uninsured were foreign-born. Low-wage immigrants need Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits, Section 8 housing vouchers, and school lunches for their children.

I find it clarifying to think of the immigration policy of the past three decades as a massive subsidy to employers of cheap labor. They save a few dollars an hour. The rest of the country pays the associated costs of raising their workers up to an acceptable American standard of living.

Immigration is too often discussed in the United States as a political problem: “How to appeal to Hispanic voters.” It is that, of course, but it’s also more. It’s a debate about the kind of country the present citizens of the United States want for their children.

{snip}

Topics: , ,

Share This

We welcome comments that add information or perspective, and we encourage polite debate. If you log in with a social media account, your comment should appear immediately. If you prefer to remain anonymous, you may comment as a guest, using a name and an e-mail address of convenience. Your comment will be moderated.
  • Magician

    LOL this is a truly bad news for wealthy Nordic countries that are determined to prove that they are not racists by bringing in thousands of immigrants and refugees from the worst parts of the world annually

    • LACounty

      That’s it. Whites have to continually prove they’re not racists by continuously importing non-Whites until we’re all but gone. An example of the results might be something like SA after Apartheid.

      • LovelyNordicHeidi

        The result might be something like what happened in Rhodesia or SA. There is not much in between.

  • Jesse James

    The Japanese have understood the importance of robotic labor as an alternative to mass Third World immigration for decades now, which is why they have the edge in fielded robotic technology. We should learn from a people who have managed to protect their culture and genes for thousands of years.

    • John R

      The Japanese know what makes a nation. Something that we forgot a long time ago. Sadly, mark my words: Japan will one day be the number one superpower, not the USA.

      • CallahanAuto

        They’ve got to start making more Japanese babies!

        • John R

          Why? Japan is already a crowded country. They don’t need more people, and they know it. The Japanese are thus not facing demographic extinction at the hands of high fertility black and brown people. This in contrast to Europe, and North America, where we Whites are being outbred by non-whites as well as displaced by non-white immigrants. So what if we have “numbers”? Numbers of what? Welfare mothers? Thugs? Useless dregs? That will only lead to the death of the West.

          • CallahanAuto

            It’s a good point you make, as long as their government doesn’t look to immigration to address a worker shortage.

  • John Ambrose

    At first I was aghast that a site like the Daily Beast would publish something sensible about immigration but after seeing it was penned by David Frum I’m not surprised. He has said some good things about the issue; just wonder how long it’ll be before the DB decides to give him the boot as a result.

  • Puggg

    This kind of technology is going to put a lot of people out of work.

    Of course it should be done. But getting on the right side of the matter on immigration is only going to be part of the matter.

    If the promised technology advances have the affects that some think they will, it’s going to make most of humanity professionally useless.

    • So CAL Snowman

      Hence the need to dramatically reduce the world’s population to a manageable number. I don’t think you can have technologically advanced societies with billions of third world people unemployed and useless.

    • We could potentially have a high GDP and high unemployment. Probable civil unrest.

    • NeanderthalDNA

      This is why I believe some form of wealth redistribution is ultimately inevitable even under the best, “whitest” circumstances.

      I don’t see this as “socialism” but I do see it as a monumental conundrum regarding how to go about it without creating a slothful populace even more addicted to trivial leisure than we already possess.

      This aside from the race thing, which only makes it worse.

      Regardless, robots could also make good border guards.

      Funny how the ancient world (Greece/Rome) could have industrialized through greater use of mechanization, but chose not to as the result of slave labor and the need to provide jobs for Plebes in Rome.

      • Brian

        This is why I believe some form of wealth redistribution is ultimately
        inevitable even under the best, “whitest” circumstances.
        ====
        Either you subsidize the growing unproductive class, or prevent them (eugenics, genetic engineering to boost the bottom half especially).

        • NeanderthalDNA

          Yeah…I think the ideal of “small government” is doomed because of this. “Moderate sized” is the new “small”, like it or not.
          The key, however, is that this moderate sized gubbamint, be a merit based one, staffed by competent people.
          A competent public sector can (and should be) actually be quite a boon to a vibrant private sector, not the way it is now. I don’t believe in utopias, but I suspect we can have our cake and eat it too, in regard to public/private sectors economic health.
          Like so many things in our myopic era, the 800lb gorilla that’s stinking up the room, that nobody can REALLY discuss or even look at, RACE, is at the root of all our problems and our inability to even acknowledge it’s dragdown effect…
          Results in the silly finger pointing fake-o “left-right/lib-con/socialist-libertarian” political kabuki theater that makes many throw up their hands and stop caring.
          I’m for some form of…democratic technocratic merit-based “fascism” myself. Perhaps a thorough reworking of it, because what we have now is broken beyond repair.

          • Brian

            I agree– any kind of modern technological state is not going to have a shoestring gov’t run on import tariffs, or a situation circa 1820 where you could just walk up to the White House and maybe see the president strolling in the garden, so you go over and have a chat… but I would be happy if we could have something like the SA apartheid gov’t, or Iceland, or even the US of 1950– small is not as important as the notion that the gov’t is composed of people like me, who actually have my interests at heart, are halfway competent w/ strict civil service exams, and stick to constitutional limits– consuming around 15% of GDP.

            This ‘democratic technocratic merit-based “fascism”‘ sounds intriguing– what would that entail? To me, the important thing is not the exact form of gov’t, but having the right CITIZENRY with the right CHARACTER, and a gov’t that suits them is more likely to arise from that. The founding fathers made the point repeatedly, that the type of gov’t they were devising could only be workable and sustainable with a certain character of citizen– educated and liberty-loving do-it-yourselfers. Education is the same way– the quality and character of the student entering the classroom, based on genes, motivation, and home life/parental instruction is more important than the specific school curriculum, equipment, funding, or private/public/parochial.

          • NeanderthalDNA

            I’ve never seen a system of thought (ideology) with which I completely agree.

            What intrigues me about “fascism” is…a lot.

            1. It’s not naziism, and I like the idea of saying to the Antifa types, “Yes, I am a fascist. What’s the problem?”

            2. The very incompleteness of its canon. It was a pragmatic set of ideas, never ossified and heavily defined like Marxism. Tried to not so much stir a middle course between liberal democracy and socialism, as to utterly reject the assumptions and canards of BOTH, create anew, so to speak, politically and economically while respecting heritage and past.

            3. It seemed to in effect combine that which worked from both it’s ideological opponents, both free markets/private ownership and looking after it’s people and their welfare. It was a positivist ideology, building rather than destroying. It recognized the importance and value of shared traits and commonalities while encouraging individual excellence. It embraced the intellectual heritage of the past while encouraging creativity and scientific progress.

            4. While recognizing the importance of wealth and its accumulation, emphasized the greater importance of meaning, values, and industry for their own merit, a precondition, I’d posit, to long term REAL wealth building.

            I disagree with its glorification of foreign military adventurism and warmongering for the sake of the vitality of the folk, as well as it’s outright dismissal of all representative institutions.

            In America, for example, such notions are intrinsic to what was once our national character and mythology, though the extent to which our “democracy” has devolved into mob rule (democratic totalitarianism – an arguably crypto-Marxist influenced urge toward radical wealth redistribution). The Roman Republic was a form of (very imperfect, I would argue) limited “democracy”, which I could see fused onto a greater rethinking and updating of fascism.

            The goal is freedom through order, individualism enabled by group solidarity, mutually binding and reciprocal social relationships based not only on heritage but on respect for and selection based on individual merit, the recognition and rewarding of which benefits the corporate whole which recursively enables and exalts the individual.

            This never ending discontent which characterizes both liberal democracy and Marxism, is the rot of much evil, in my opinion, a disintegrative social force that thrives on the basest impulses to anarchy and dissolution. An almost Satanic force. In that all life and any institution which upholds life is an ongoing process of ultimately futile struggle against entropy, any will to survival is a will to power, and fascism seems the only political option which recognizes this.

            I also like science and notions of some form of technocracy, which if firmly fused to fascist ideology, could result in the undertaking of great functional monuments that serve to direct the creative and productive impetus of mankind, binding corporate groups of individuals in processes other than aggressive warmongering, which our technological mastery makes ever more dangerous existentially speaking.

            Some day doomsday will approach, for example, in the form of a catastrophic natural disaster, for example. Many scenarios exist for which we will have no choice but to say our prayers and prepare for annihilation, but many others could foreseeably be avoided with enough technological development and ant-like preparation.

            Between liberal democracy’s myopic obsession with short term wealth accumulation and Marxism’s obsession with wasting resources and energy solving all the unsolvable problems, I have a hard time seeing us surviving as a species, much less a race, without some more rational alternative.

        • I predict a return of indentured servitude

      • A lot of the conditions which presented at the time of the industrial revolution in England were also present in the Hellenistic Empire. Why the industrial revolution didn’t spark then, I don’t know. I doubt that a deliberate choice not to spark it to keep the masses and slaves at work was the reason.

        • NeanderthalDNA

          I’ll have to look it up but I’m sure I’ve read somewhere where the Romans avoided labor saving mechanical devices on purpose for the sake of employing free Plebes. Some real quotes from the time to back it up too.

          Many clever mechanisms were apparently employed by the ancients in the theatrics of temples. “Deus ex machina”.

          Regardless the institution of ancient slavery was so accepted and widespread it was probably simply much easier to set up slave factories. The lack of widespread slavery in Europe seems to have encouraged the IR when it kicked in there and then.

    • AndrewInterrupted

      That’s actually why I don’t use self-scanners at the supermarket. I would prefer the money go to high school kids than a Repug’s pocket.

      • You have high school kids working at your grocery stores? Ours are staffed by people above college age.

        • AndrewInterrupted

          Handicapped and high school. Some taking a year off before college. Depends on which store.

      • BonV.Vant

        what if there are no lines at the self scanner and there is at least a ten minute wait at the human cashier?

        • AndrewInterrupted

          I would get the manager fired and make them hire managers in the future based on their ability and not their gender or the color of their skin.

    • Anna Tree

      I am waiting for the robots to replace hollywood…

    • GeneticsareDestiny

      I agree. This is happening, whether we like it or not, and the elites and the common people need to face the fact that the future will not need workers with IQs below ~120 or so. And the IQ cutoff for finding gainful employment will continue to rise as automation advances. It’s already probably around ~115 for any private sector, non-AA job that pays more than $30,000/year.

      Our society is going to need to come to a solution about what we’re going to do with all the people who will be rendered obsolete soon. We already have a substantial population like this, even if you completely ignore the minorities. The white underclass is growing, partially because they’re being discriminated against in jobs, and partially because of the rising IQ cutoff. Even your average white person at IQ 100 is struggling, and his children will struggle worse than he did.

      Even if we somehow managed to get rid of most of the minorities, what are we going to do about whites? I suppose incentives for the most intelligent to procreate and for the less intelligent to remain childless will be a part of it, but beyond that, I really don’t know.

      • BonV.Vant

        I do not think this is correct. Look at how dumbed down the retail trade has become. Fast food for instance, one doesn’t need to be able to do anything more than push a button on a screen. The situation will most likely become that there will be a few people that will need to be smart while the rest become like the Eloi.

        • GeneticsareDestiny

          “Fast food for instance, one doesn’t need to be able to do anything more than push a button on a screen.”

          Yes, and pretty soon they won’t even need a worker to do that. Some restaurants, such as Applebees, have already instituted automated food ordering. You pick your order from an iPad-like device.

          It won’t be long before it spreads. This technology is already taking jobs from waitresses and it will only get worse as the technology advances. And fast food could easily streamline their entire system by having machines cook and prepare the food while customers input their orders themselves (eliminating the cashier). You would only need one person to oversee it instead of a staff of five or six people like you generally see now.

          I think a lot of jobs are going away, even the ones people thought would never disappear. Self-driving cars will probably be a reality in 10-20 years, though it might take longer for them to be popularized. This will eliminate a ton of jobs: cab drivers, truck drivers, maybe even school bus drivers.

          What are all the low and average IQ people going to do when there are no jobs available for those with IQs below 120 or 130 or maybe higher? It’s going to be a serious problem.

          • BonV.Vant

            hmmm.will the black iPads ignore people for awhile and then be surly?

  • LovelyNordicHeidi

    “More immigration therefore almost certainly would mean more poverty and intensified inequality even if all else held constant.”

    “It’s a debate about the kind of country the present citizens of the United States want for their children.”

    Never expected to find those two sentences in any PC article. But yes, they should have used robots as an anti-immigration argument 60 years ago. Hell, they should just have used our superior technology as an anti-immigration argument. That would’ve just been the same as saying that we have a higher IQ.

    • “It’s a debate about the kind of country the present citizens of the United States want for their children.”

      If only we were allowed to have that conversation.

    • Anna Tree

      “They should have used robots”
      is the new
      “They should have picked their own cotton”

  • JohnEngelman

    Robots could result in more leisure. They are likely to result in more unemployment, and lower wages.

    • Unemployment- leisure:potato-potahto

  • Spartacus

    Robots are good for those who can afford it. For those of us who can’t – we’ll either build our own parallel, functional society, or we’ll fight with the dark-skins for the scraps from the elite’s table .

    • Diana Moon Glampers

      And when we finish fighting, we can then execute the elites. Good old-fashioned revolution.

  • CompassionateConservative

    Look folks, we’re going to have to accept that the undocumented workers are not going to go back to Mexico. Let’s get on board with Comprehensive Immigration Reform and get behind other staunch conservatives like John McCain and Lindsay Graham. It’s time to stop being crybabies who obsess over immigration, race, and guns and start being a bit more progressive. Ronald Reagan supported amnesty, gun control, and the idea of a global government and it’s time that we conservatives stop being such an impediment to progress.

    • Marc Zuckurburg

      Thankfully you didn’t screw it up.

      After all, I’m paying you a lot of money to troll websites and blogs.

    • NM156

      You’re a funny guy!

    • NeanderthalDNA

      Hey, maybe we could increase the INS and border patrol size, thereby creating lots of USEFUL jobs and deport the invaders all in one swell foop!

      Jobs – not the make-work kind!

      • We could go on a hiring spree for ICE and USBP.

        But then the USBP would be a new big welcome wagon for the illegals streaming across, and the new ICE agents would be deployed on all important work like trademark and copyright infringements.

        • NeanderthalDNA

          One GOOD president could executive order the whole thing around…

      • AndrewInterrupted

        Local, State, and Federal are the make-work kind.

    • Anna Tree

      I don’t get what you say or the couple of racialist Amreners who thumbed you up didn’t get what you said. Maybe someone can explain to me?

      • LACounty

        Correct. CC and MZ are a Sacasmic tag-team. Thumbs Up.

  • Magician

    It is not like Japan already has thousands of robots doing things that Mexican illegal immigrants are doing in the country

    Most robots at the moment cannot even walk up stairs

  • I briefly worked on a Toyota assembly line , that in terms of human personal was mainly manned by Vietnamese and tough ex Eastern Europeans.
    But when I was there the company laid off fifteen F/T welders who were probably on about $65-75k a year($1.125 million annual wage) , instead replacing them with four welding robots worth a cool million dollars each.
    The company was only there because of all the tax breaks and incentives the State government rolled out to get them there.
    On the line I was on, with a least 20 guys all using various air tools on a conveyor starting/stopping, we’d churn out a set of four car seats for a new sedan in 85 seconds, we heard that in Japan, they’d do the same in 28 seconds. I always wondered how, because we were so fast.
    I also heard that in Japan all their factories were running 24/7, with only about seven human staff members who worked in either maintenance and security.
    It makes you wonder, once we have robots that are sophisticated even to pick ripe fruit etc. What are we going to do with all the now unemployed people we imported to do this task?

    • Talltrees

      We’ll be paying them welfare.

    • AndrewInterrupted

      That was a plant in Australia?

      • Yes sir, in Melbourne.

        • AndrewInterrupted

          Have you ever visited New Zealand? Are they being assaulted by the multiculturalism devils, too?

          • I’ve been reluctant to mention this, but I’m actually from NZ originally and I’ve taken my little Australian family back there to escape the multiculturalism, bushfires and snakes and to live well in Australia you have to have more money than I had behind you.
            I get a little paranoid about posting my location because Wikileaks and the Snowden affairs have both proven that Australia and NZ are right up the NSA’s rear end and are part of the global spy network, with neither of our leaders protecting their people’s right to privacy, Australia doen’t even have a bill of rights protecting free speech.
            NZ is a lot more ‘progressive’ than Australia and further down the rabbit hole, there are subtle differences though.
            In NZ we confronted an warrior culture of ‘indigenous’ people, that carbon dating evidence has proven have only been here for 700 years, who in that time managed to wipe out two magnificent species (google the Moa or Haast’s eagle) by their lazy hunting method of burning down a whole forest then lazily walking through and picking up the carcasses.
            Maori’s love to fight (google the now PC denied ‘warrior gene’), when us Europeans showed up the various tribes were committing genocide against each other and were practicing cannibalism up until just 150 years ago.
            Maori’s were the only people I’ve heard of who’d “farm of the flesh” of their own people, in supplying heads of captured enemies and slaves (who they’d often add facial tattoo’s to, reserved for great warriors or chiefs, to up the price) for the lucrative international shrunken head market.
            Australian Aborigines as you probably know have been in Oz for 50,000 years and are a nomadic people, who simply would move on when we Whites showed up.There were bloody conflicts though, massacres, genocide if you listen to the progressives, but it’s really because we are so different as a people. The Australian government basically tried to breed Aborigines into our bloodline with the stolen generation scandal, and when you read about the intentions behind all of that, it sounds like left wing progressives of the time meaning well. But of course now the revisionists paint a picture of all Whites back then being knuckle dragging pro White conservatives. In saying that though, Australia has always been an unapologetically White country, with the White Australia Immigration policy being dropped in 1974 and it apparently being legal to hunt Aborigines until the 1950’s (that could be a urban legend).
            NZ is a very young country 170 years old ish and the Maori encountered the British Empire with Queen Victoria on the throne and after various expensive and bloody colonial past successes and failures, the approach to NZ was a softer one, not enough troops were committed and the British strategy was one of storm the Castle, where as the Maori’s fought more of a jungle war fare style, preferring lots of temporary forts that would be abandoned quickly with them moving to another base quickly.
            For instances the British Army would dig trenches all day, then the Maori’s would fill them in at night.
            What I’m getting to is the British Empire signed a treaty with the all the Maori tribes giving them various rights to NZ, which are still being vigorously fought over today, through the courts.With Maori tribes who are like corporations using the treaty to negotiate things like 4G digital airway rights.
            The moral of that story I think is, coming from a position of strength means you have more clout in negotiations later.
            Basically Maori who are 15% of the population have this country in the grip of their hands, with their (dead) language and culture being compulsory in schools, and is everywhere in the Government etc.
            I have a missionary ancestor on my mothers side from about six generations ago, who settled the Moore mission, well I took my family there to show them something their ancestor made, and in the 10 year period I was away, they’ve taken down all the English signs noting my ancestor’s involvement and name, instead replacing them with various holocaust style memorials in an attempt to inflame racial tensions to aid in lining their pockets in our local grievance industry.
            I was given lots of dirty looks too(mainly by other Whites), like I didn’t belong there, that annoyed me.
            It seems as time goes forward the younger, fatter, never lived longer Moari who’ve never had it so good are getting more annoyed at a past that they had nothing to do with.
            I noticed the same with my African American step father, this ‘aunty who raised him’, who was basically his grandmother, was the one who did have to enter through the back door and ride on the back of the bus, but she wasn’t angry, yet his sons who went to college and married White woman (sigh) are the militant angry ones, it makes no sense to me.

            Abo’s are 2% of Australia(Muslims are about 4%) and are almost invisible there, but the progressives are working on that with them getting more of a media presence with their own digital television channel etc.
            Australia has more so opened the flood gates for everyone in the world to move there. I mentioned that my mother worked for the Human rights commission, she tells of going to a Human rights conference in the 1990’s in Australia where Middle eastern and Asian issues were greatly discussed but there was not a single event recognizing the Aborigines at all, so the NZ leftists one upped the Ozzies leftist’s by thanking the poeple of the land for having them and mentioning all the different Abo tribes etc. Apparently the whole auditorium was in tears and it makes you realize that leftists are all in the peeing contest with each other to out do each other.

            NZ’s population is only 4.2 million with 3 million in the North Island and 1 million in the South Island. The North Island is where the majority of Maori’s live, with violence, infanticide, poverty all being big issues resulting in them being the majority of the prison population too.
            My progressive mother blames fetal alcohol syndrome on all
            1 in 8 Maori actually had migrated to Australia for the greater opportunities and I must admit the ones I’ve met in Oz, do seem to be the cream of the crop.They don’t like going home much either, because the deadbeats at home often have their hands out.
            Aborigines have a really bad relationship with alcohol, rape and violent crime too with them also disproportionately represented in our prisons.
            I had some friends tell me that in 7/11’s in the NT (the extremely hot croc infested north of Oz) that they’re have methylated spirits in the drink fridges, that the Abo’s would filter through their jackets to drink.
            To sum up, Australia has 1 million Asians, or 25% of it’s population is foreign born according to the last census. Opening up the floodgates letting in 400,000 a year (half immigrants/half student visas etc) or 2% of the population, which is good for the economy in terms of it puts constant pressure on real estate and means the building industry is always doing well, the last I heard foreign ownership was encouraged (I read mummers that may of changed or is changing), but for the average Ozzie on the ground it feels like Australia is selling it’s soul and you’re in competition with everyone in the world for a job, house, girlfriend even.
            Australia took in Greeks and Italians in the 1950’s (with some assimilation success and some failures…for instances some Greeks have been in Oz for 60 years still can’t speak a word of English), then Vietnamese in the 70’s, Turks/Indians/ Pakistani’s in the 90’s then Afgans/Iraqi’s, Somoli’s, Sudanese and everyone else in 00’s onwards.
            NZ opened the doors for Pacific Islanders in the 1950’s (NZ has become Oz’s immigration backdoor as NZ citizens can move to Oz freely) and have taken sprinklings of refugees here and there, but Chinese and Indian immigration is the most visible mainly in NZ largest city Auckland in the top of the North Island.
            Where I am is wonderfully White in the South Island and even though we’ve recently experienced a major natural disaster, life is good. It’s expensive here though, but beautiful with lots of ex Europeans, Australians and North Americans here, three quarters of my kids class photo has fair hair, that makes me happy.
            Sorry about the length of the reply, I thought some background may have helped, there’s a lot that I’ve left out too.
            I’ll probably delete this in a day of two too, just to protect my anonymousity, although threads around here seem to go stale extremely quick these days, you never know.

          • AndrewInterrupted

            Nice summary, but depressing.

            I was dissecting the demographics of the two islands and made those observations already. It seems like the south island could absorb American refugees fairly well, and it isn’t overly poisoned with the various savages. How many people could the south island hold? And what is the status of that small, southerly most island?

          • In terms of land mass the south Island of NZ is 151,215 sq km where as Italy is 294,140 sq km , Japan 364,485 sq km and the State of Texas is 696,241 sq km. So half the size of Italy and Japan, twice the size of Texas, but it’s a very craggy volcanic rock, mountainous land, think Lord of Rings scenery, but the Canterbury region is pretty flat and we have lots of water and not many deadly creatures, we also make the bulk of the countries electricity and food, from anywhere in NZ you only have to drive a maximum of 1.5 hours to reach coastline.

            Population wise we have a million people, with the right investment in infrastructure I’m sure that we could accommodate five or ten times that. But that is often NZ’s problem, is our small population, keeps wages down and makes everything imported expensive, meaning there’s not a lot of money to go into things like updating our road network, for instances the Government just put the price of petrol up 3c a litre to pay for three major freeway upgrades.

            Regarding the demographics I think I read in the latest census that it’s only 8% Maori and from memory about 3% Pacific Islander.There’s a few Chinese etc around but not too many.
            It’s like Portland Oregon demographics, White like 90%+.
            Driving around yesterday I saw so many pretty blondes and brunettes etc.
            We have a reputation in the rest of NZ for being redneck, backwards, racist and hideously too White (like we’re a disease or something) all that usual bunk and I think that may keep undesirables away, along with the cost and cold weather, but weather wise it’s getting warmer here and in OZ it’s been hitting 122 degrees Fahrenheit more and more.

            Christchurch is the main hub city in the south Island and NZ’s second largest city with about 400,000 people, it was described as the most English city outside of England, with lots of lovely green parks (over 300 of them) and lots of elaborate gardens etc, unfortunately the earthquakes in 2010/11 messed that up a bit, with a lot of stone Anglican English buildings destroyed or being knocked down due to being deemed not safe.
            With plans to rebuild a ‘green city’.

            Then there Nelson on the top of the S.I. which is lovely climate and lifestyle with lots of coast line in lets and lots of yachts etc. and up there you get some land a really disappear, where you’re mail gets delivered only by boat with no roads anywhere.
            But it’s a bit church’y for me up there.

            The bottom of the S.I. has Dunedin which has been described as the Edinburgh (Scotland) of the south, with Scottish whalers being a lot of the first settlers there.
            To me it’s a bit dour and cold there with jobs and money being tighter and the people there being very tough, the last time I went there there was two hunting stories on the front page of the newspaper.
            That little island “Stewart’s island” is extremely remote and unpopulated and again cold. You’re heading towards Antarctica down there with penguins and the like. In fact when I mention African America’s around these parts, that was thanks to US Navy’s Operation Deep Freeze for McMurdo station that brought them here.
            But that base was shut down in the 90’s, with a smaller US navy presence here now.

            On the plus side could probably count the Bantu’s here on one hand, compared to the West of Melbourne which has settled tens of thousands there.
            I keep forgetting to mention that there’s a few South African’s around these parts too, they seem to keep to themselves though, but I know they love the land and the culture (both countries are rugby obsessed…..our equivalent of NFL).

            Cost is the killer here, a nice average house goes for about $400k NZD, when $1USD=$1.20NZD you’re looking at $330k US to get a house here and it’s still climbing.
            I hosted an American from Washington recently and he was blown away by what we pay for electricity, food and real estate, but he admitted that you guys get it in the neck with heath care and education, which are both free here, although private versions of both are creating a two tier system in some regards.

            Unlike Australia though, we still have our guns (google: “Gun city the world’s largest gun store”….it’s probably not true, but still encouraging).
            Although I’ve heard that the NZ police come down very hard on people defending their own properties against intruders using guns, so that’s a little confusing.
            But we don’t have too much crime in the South Island, the natives are always attacking tourists in the North Island mainly.

            Where I am is rural and I love it, although no one talks openly about it, I sense most other people here are traditionalists, there’s a lot of White foreigners here, English especially who when prompted admit to escaping the insanity back home.
            In fact it’s always those with the least amount of exposure to multiculturalism, who are it’s biggest advocates, and that’s where the White locals annoy me.

            The other issue is getting past our immigration system, I’ve heard you can buy your way in…from doing a quick search I found this ……

            Under the new policy two types of investor will be able to gain immediate residency. One has no age or business conditions, but requires an investment of NZ$10m (£4m) over three years. The other category requires an investment of NZ$1.5m (£658,000)over four years, plus three years of business experience and an age limit of 65.

            Those applying for the second category must also have settlement funds of NZ$1.5m. Applicants must spend a minimum time in New Zealand of 73 days a year for the first category and 146 days a year for the second…..

            But I assume that if you’re like me, you’re just an average Joe.
            But we’d love to have more like minded individuals here, if Europe and the US explodes into a racial War, this would certainly be a safe place to watch from.

          • AndrewInterrupted

            That was a much more encouraging summary. Yes, the gun factor alone would attract American refugees as the Marxist cancer continues to suck the life out of Mother America.

            Many Americans are fleeing to Costa Rica. They have these American compounds all around the country. You have to show the Costa Rican government a net worth of $500,000 or more before they will accept your application for citizenship. That’s their version of gentrification, I guess.

            On the down side, they don’t care where that $500,000 came from. Many drug dealers move there after they’ve used up most of their luck in America.

            Is Stewart’s Island unpopulated because of climate and terrain conditions or because it has been established as a wildlife refuge or national park?

          • Sorry about the delay in replying Andrew I had to go make some money etc.
            Re Stewart’s Island, all I know is it’s very remote and craggy, I had to go to Wikipedia to find out more myself and it says that the total population is under 400 people with various settlements being started up, then abandoned.
            We’ve even found ourselves that you can’t be too far away from people here, just to get food and supplies, not to mention to save on fuel. So we’re 50km’s away from a sizable population for hardware, timber products and so on and you need that population to generate some competition for prices to be fair.
            We’re loving this lifestyle, my whole family is thriving being closer to nature and away from all that big city poison, but still 10 year kids with smart phones on facebook is still a problem here even, it seems that there’s no escape there, but at least there’s not lots of drugs or that gang culture (The Polynesians love it, in their self created slums, which are easy to avoid).

            I have been surprised though by how fat the farm kids are here, but then they probably have a good and constant supply of quality meat.
            Something I really love about this country, the S.I. especially is the people here are generally pretty down to earth (you’ll always get the odd rude global citizen in the cities here) but if you have a flat tyre someone will eventually stop to give you help.
            And if you give a pretty girl a compliment, she’ll blush and say thank you, and I’ve seen scenes such as driving past a maids service unpacking and you’ll see three pretty White girls going to clean someone’s house for minimum wage with no sleazy catch, because they have no airs or graces and don’t mind hard work.

            What I witnessed in Australia was either the pretty girls were spoiled and rich and were gold diggers or knew their worth and were unapproachable, or were in an invasion suburb and were so used to being inundated with swarthy immigrants, that they’d have to develop a really hard demeanor to bat all men away.

            So if buying your way into NZ is a hurdle, I’m sure you’d find an agreeable local lass to marry, and after watch half a century of American television, you North American’s are culturally already pretty popular here I assume you, especially since the G.W years have past.

          • AndrewInterrupted

            Sounds like paradise, but I’m a little short on funds to make the leap.

            That little darling from Lorde has certainly put New Zealand back on the map.

          • Paradise for now, but I worry about our future though with our small population and (I hate to admit) our visibly old population , traitorous sell out politicians (both sides of the spectrum), and naive guilt ridden/wanting to be ‘cool’ pro-multiculturalism Whites(more so in urban areas).
            I’ve spent half of my life in Australia from 3 months old and from going back and forth, and I’ve watched it change itself drastically in that time. By no means does Australia deserve the racist rap it receives in the international media, with all of the back bending it has done, it’s not lost yet though.

            Re Lorde, her mother is from Croatian stock, just explain your old soul look.
            Mate start saving as you’d be welcome here.
            Pardon my bad self editing.

          • AndrewInterrupted

            Australia is just getting the steady slow drip of the white guilt slavery process. The savages are exploiting all that’s good in the creators of western civilization. We don’t do the race-to-the-bottom well. That’s won by savages.

            I’m looking to possibly one of the American enclaves in Costa Rica at the moment. An old coworker is bugging me to move there.

            NZ would certainly be my first choice, though. Thanks for the well wishes.

            That Lorde girl has a very Irish sounding name. She must be at least half Emerald Isle?

          • Your experience sounds like what I went through living the north of Melbourne, aliens everywhere, alien ‘culture’ and crime constantly in your face , but whenever you plug in, read, or turn on any media it’s all a big racist guilt trip or selling the progressive utopia fantasy. The first thing I noticed when I moved away was just how relaxed I instantly became, with that feeling of being under siege being lifted.

            But I feel like I’ve had a glimpse of a possible future for us all.

            Us Whites are a frustrating group, with our lack of group cohesion.

            I’ve heard that Costa Rica is lovely and I’ve read other posters here talk about American enclaves and just how far money goes there and how the Government keeps the poor away.
            So good luck with what ever you choose man.

            Re Lorde, with her last name O’Connor, you’ve got to be right re her being part Irish. The fame trap is beginning to engulf her, people seem to love her or hate her, I just think it’s weird that she’s been chosen to be one of the gifted few.

            I flicked on the Grammies this year just in time for the best rock song category, that was announced by an African American, with three groups of 70 year olds nominated (Paul McCartney, Black Sabbath and the Rolling Stones) and a black guy Gary Clark, Jr. and then a single young White guy band, Paul McCartney along with Dave Grohl took the award, then they crossed to another black presenter.

            The message I got was “rock is dead” (sorry I’m good at being depressing).

          • AndrewInterrupted

            What was the primary demo of the Melbourne horde pouring in? Middle Eastern?

            The crime part of southern NH hasn’t gone into full swing yet. The Eskimos know there is a high probability of deportation for crime, so they are ‘playing nice’, for now. They still drain the system of Medicaid and SNAP, etc. Once they get legalized and start competing it will be all over. That pause in the action is giving the white folks time to bug-out.

            I caught a few glimpses of the geriatric Grammy show. Yoko always gives me the creeps. She’s become synonymous with ‘band wrecker’ as opposed to ‘home wrecker’. Kind of an Asian Hillary–coat-tail fame and power.

  • bigone4u

    Leftists would rather destroy a white majority Constitutional republic than see it continue to exist. They live in a delusional world where only their own narcissistic self-righteousness matters. If America and the world plunged into a new Dark Ages they would be happy so long as “equality” were the outcome. Leftists deserve to meet the fate they wish for the white race, which is EXTINCTION.

    • John R

      “Well, at least I am not being a R-A-C-I-S-T”
      That would be the typical liberal response.

  • MekongDelta69

    Do all robots play the knockout ‘game’?

    Or just the dark ones?

    • LACounty

      Maybe we can program some robots to play a game called “Black-out”.

  • NM156

    Imagine the deluge of Third World leeches if a Guaranteed Income was passed by Congress in a AI-driven, post-labor America. It’s yet another reason to rein in the flood as soon as possible.

    • CompassionateConservative

      It would be fine because the middle class has plenty of room to tighten their belts.

      • Marc Zuckurburg

        That’s right. $200,000 a year and a three story house with five bedrooms, a four car garage, four luxury cars and a boat is too much for the average person to handle anyway.

        • CompassionateConservative

          You are so right. These are the people who won’t take work picking lettuce for $50.00 an hour because the pay is too low but complain about all the extremely hard working Mexicans we bring in. I don’t know what their problem is because they are natural Republicans.

          • Marc Zuckurburg

            Who would be so stupid as to pay people $50 an hour for picking lettuce? I don’t even pay my H1B employees minimum wage. Oh yeah, sure I say I pay them $20,000 a year, to have that to say on the books and to keep the Feds off my case. But my employees can’t complain because I can revoke their H1B with one stroke of a pen, and it’s back to Bangladesh and Bangalore with them.

          • CompassionateConservative

            That’s what John McCain said and I trust him because he is a true conservative and disciple of Ronald Reagan. He would not tell a lie.

          • Marc Zuckurburg

            It doesn’t matter to me if he lies or doesn’t lie. That’s because there is no such thing as truth and no such thing as a lie. I have to get that through the thick skulls of every newbie accountant I hire.

            No, the only thing there is in reality is comprehensive immigration reform.

            But the best part about John McCain is that I practically didn’t have to pay anything to buy him off. That schmuck will do what I want for free. Okay, sure, I had to give that wind up doll daughter of his a job, what’s her name, Megan, Meghan, or whatever. I can see why John was so adamant about plugging her into some kind of job, because she’s unemployable on her own.

            But what I pay her to me is just a rounding error of a rounding error.

          • Brian

            Fake GWB and fake MZ trolling each other. Weird.

          • Fighting_Northern_Spirit

            Probably one person with two accounts having a conversation with himself.

  • CompassionateConservative

    Ronald Reagan, the gold standard and greatest conservative ever to exist, would support open borders as he did in 1986, so anyone who doesn’t support Comprehensive Immigration Reform cannot be truly conservative.

    • Marc Zuckurburg

      That’s how it’s done. Lead the sheep pied piper like down an ideological primrose path.

      If you keep up the good work, there could be a big option for FB stock in your future!

    • WR_the_realist

      I realize that “compassionate conservative” is trolling, but for the record, Reagan did say that that amnesty was the biggest mistake he ever made.

      • IstvanIN

        He was also lied to that the border would be controlled.

    • benvad

      The hell with that.

  • jay11

    For those of us who have younger children, do any of us have any idea where our kids will get their first jobs? Every fast food worker, dishwasher, landscaper, and on and on is now likely to be an immigrant latino or something similar. Move up the food chain, and every cook, many mid level managers and now even top positions (because of diversity quotas) are now filled to the brim with immigrants. Where I’m at, it is highly UNUSUAL to see any native born whites in any job outside of highly unionized mafia-controlled places like sanitation or firefighters, or positions that require advanced education. Everything is now ‘diverse.’ Where will my two children work? In 10 years, when the heavily urban ‘immigrants’ fan out across all the small towns of America – I shudder to think of the future!

    • IstvanIN

      Your children will be cannon fodder for the military and all our overseas empire adventures.

    • willbest

      Also, there has been a crackdown on lemonade stands of late.

      Well a decade ago I would have said Starbucks, but apparently you need a college degree for that now.

      I umpired baseball games, cleaned a bowling alley, and was a sales associate at Sports Authority in high school. You could still do the 1st and 3rd easy enough. Really though build your social networks.

      Pharmacies look for clean individuals to be technicians, and it requires you to pass an exam to get licensed which rules out a lot of minorities. Law firms have need for grunt employees either on a permanent or full time basis. Some tech support is run by high school kids.

      There is also lawn mowing (yes Mexicans do this by they charge $35/hr) and baby sitting which are more self start businesses that require knocking on some doors, or dropping fliers off at local preschools.

    • BonV.Vant

      buy a computer and the CAD program, have them learn CAD at home. They can start selling their designs on the web to 3d manufacturers such as shapeways and they could get get good paying jobs in 3d manufacturing. OR perhaps, buy a 3d manufacturing machine as well. The price of the computer, the cad programs and the 3d manufacturing machine combined is far less than a semester at most colleges. Knowing a CAD program is more valuable than a diploma from a 4 year college.

  • CompassionateConservative

    The gist of this article is ridiculous. We’re going to need technicians to set up and repair these robots and 11.00 dollars an hour is too much to pay an American to do it. We will need immigrants.

    • Marc Zuckurburg

      We should get together some time and compare net worth statements, and maybe also swap wives.

      • CompassionateConservative

        Sounds good. Perhaps we can set a date after I get back from my vacation in Israel.

        • Marc Zuckurburg

          Hey, while you’re going in that general direction, you better make a side trip over to Zurich to transfer out all your money from Switzerland to the Caymans. Swiss-land isn’t as safe as it used to be.

      • AndrewInterrupted

        He’s seen your wife. Don’t hold your breath.

    • Tim_in_Indiana

      How many Hispanics are going to qualify as robot technicians?

      • CompassionateConservative

        Well we can just have undocumented Chinese workers perform the work. They built them after all because we shipped the factory overseas because paying an American senior electronics engineer $16.00 an hour and machinists $9.00 an hour simply isn’t profitable enough.

    • WR_the_realist

      All you down voters keep in mind that CompassionateConservative is very obviously trolling. I’m sure he believes his own posts the same way I believe Obama is our greatest president.

  • WR_the_realist

    I’m flabbergasted. Common sense from The Daily Beast and from David Frum? Will wonders never cease?

  • Like when the cotton gin made slave labor redundant, us everyday people will have to deal with the social consequences and have more competition to fight for the scraps, when the biological machinery is retired.
    As usual the private sector will run away with the profits, when the public sector is left with the clean up costs. It makes you wonder though, as the middle class shrinks and the corporate world hides it’s tax obligations overseas, where this future tax revenue is going to come from.
    I wish that they’d at least be honest when they talk about culture and diversity and instead just say what it’s really all about,money.

    • If things get that bad, the rich will have no safe place, the people will be quite angry with them (euphemism).
      Capitalism wont turn out quite as the rich expected.

      • Instead of a gated community, they’ll need a gated country.
        I’m sure they’re working on just that.

  • I just googled that statement and yeah that claim is all over the place, I couldn’t find the source of that claim or any proof though.
    So I’m not convinced.

  • So CAL Snowman

    “One, two, three, and to the four, Snoop doggy dog and doctor dre is at the door. Ready to make an entrance so back on up cuz you know we ’bout to rip s**t up.”

    I’m going to have to sort of go ahead and disagree with that claim of a 147 IQ.

    • NeanderthalDNA

      Divided by 2.

  • NeanderthalDNA

    I just read that rapper Snoop Dogg has IQ of 147
    ——————
    Blacks lie about their accomplishments and capacities all the time.

    • AndrewInterrupted

      Common Core has an Ebonics version now.

      They give you half credit for wanting to get the answer right.

      • Magician

        hahaha hahaha

      • NeanderthalDNA

        “They give you half credit for wanting to get the answer right.”

        Many are so antinomian that’s even problematic…

        • AndrewInterrupted

          Oh, but it’s at the liberal Professor’s discretion, you see….<;-)

          • NeanderthalDNA

            I have to pat myself on the back, Andrew…

            Work with a lovely and bright young White woman struggling through college who loves to have conversations with me on various topics, including her current major, Sociology.

            Over the course of a few months I’ve caused her to seriously rethink her choice of major. Nuff said. Yay!

          • AndrewInterrupted

            Does she tell liberal Professor horror stories?

          • NeanderthalDNA

            She’s not had any TRULY horrific specific examples yet, just an overall sense of indoctrination. She tries to balance puking back acceptable ideology while slipping some intellectual integrity into the mix.

            Sharp. One must survive and she’s already in debt for thousands of $$$$, no desire to drop out and start paying on something she never got. Sharp.

            Well…more later but gotta go meet up with a lovely woman NOT half my age for something resembling a date. First in a while, lol, so best not be too fashionably late…

    • BonV.Vant

      well, we’ve heard of “n-word rich”, now we have “n-word smart”

      • NeanderthalDNA

        I call it “stupid intelligence”, one of the much overlooked and underappreciated aspects of “multiple intelligences” “theory”.

        They are geniuses in this form of intelligence.

        • BonV.Vant

          The Maya Angelou bell curve

  • LACounty

    That’s “147” in Dog IQ.

  • M.

    Why did he write, “He’s a Mormon, but he doesn’t have any h**s”? Are you supposed to have h**s in the Mormon religion?

  • Fighting_Northern_Spirit

    I think a decimal point has gone missing…

    • itdoesnotmatter

      OOPs, you beat me to it, Fighting.

  • itdoesnotmatter

    Suuuure, he has an IQ of 147.
    Based on the well written, highly intelligent prose above, I’d say more like 14.7 on clear headed days he cannot find his crack pipe.

  • Massif1

    Most positions that blacks and hispanics hold will be replaced with robots. Local governments would save millions each year by replacing fat black ladies at the DMV with a computer that tells you what to do, takes pictures, and prints out ID cards. The only way to sustain current system of having too many government workers is to raise taxes. Americans with money are already moving overseas in order to pay less in taxes and it doesn’t look things are going to change anytime so

  • Truth Teller

    I’m in California where just about every retail clerk except for Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus etc are non Whites, mostly immigrants. So I am thrilled to use the self service scanners and ATMs. The browns put Whites out of work, so let the robots put the browns out of work.

  • Truth Teller

    Jay11 is so right. In California just about the only professions that are still at least half White are attorneys and school teachers. Medicine, from Nurse’s aides to the MDs are brown tan and female.. So is accounting, programming, engineering etc. In many areas there are almost no White Drs and Dentists left.
    I suggest changing your children’s last names to Hispanic before they enter high school. It may offend White nationalist pride, but the majority of Whites are liberals who hate Whites as much as Holder does. Take care of your own. Tiny little pro White movements like amren can’t help your children. Take care of your own.

  • AndrewInterrupted

    Just in case (and in any case) I’m in the NSA rotation this week, for the official record: I know of no ‘hot’ high school kids….<:-)

  • AndrewInterrupted

    There is a minimalist movement underway in this country for those very reasons you state.

  • Or techno-socialist fascist police state.

    I remember listening to my technologically inclined friends talking 20 years ago, about how technology was going to usher in a new exciting era in humanity once nanotechnology could heal us and keep us alive indefinitely and how once we all get our own personal matter replicators, how that will make money issues such as poverty and starvation obsolete. And that we’ll all fly off to explore the universe Star Trek style.

    As I’ve gotten older and more cynical, I’ve come to realize that power comes from having something the other guy wants/needs or cant do or get for themselves, and having the proverbial cure for cancer or running an internal combustion engine off water, may be discovered and buried because it’s more profitable to treat the symptoms and not the cause.

    it’s going to be telling for humanities character in which way we choose to go.
    I’m pretty pessimistic myself and I worry for our future over the next two decades and onwards (especially having two young children).

  • Impressive that we’re that close to having a machine that can pick strawberries, but yes what to do with the people?
    Those Matrix films had a pretty good idea.

    • AndrewInterrupted

      I work in automation field service. That technology has been available for decades. You saw it at that auto-plant you worked at. GM had a fully robotic assembly line in Detroit–back in the 1980’s. Most of the corporate farms should have been automated by now.

  • BonV.Vant

    they will take what they can, but they will not be able to maintain it.

  • BonV.Vant

    The situation may develop into a sort of feudal situation. Groups of people may pool their resources and buy robots, forming insular, self reliant communities. Instead of “from each according to his ability to each according to his need” it may end up being “from the production abilities of the community’s robots to each in the community according to one’s needs”.
    The communities would then be competing against each other in a marketplace that will center more around raw materials . The communities that are the most efficient, the most innovative, and that have the best functioning, most stable societies, and therefore the highest rates of reproduction will do best. In this scenario the Amish or Mennonites could end up being the most prosperous segment of society if they embraced the new technologies. They already have the societal framework in place.Nation states may actually become much less important, just as they did in feudal times. Instead of all the races blending, we may have each race fragmenting into untold numbers of different cultures and ethnic divisions.

  • Pretty cool. I know that growers have a extremely small (make or break) time window to get their crops off the trees/vines to maximize profits for the years labor.
    I’m conflicted about all of this, on one hand I’m glad to see anything which makes food cheaper and gets rid of dusky foreigners on the other hand I remember picking fruit when I was 15 years old to save up and get a wet suit for surfing, which I found extremely satisfying. The times are a changing so quickly now.

  • AndrewInterrupted

    Their lack of citizenship prevents them from getting some of the better jobs. Once they get their amnesty they will displace multi-generation Americans who are presently in those jobs. And these Marxist devils don’t care how many they need to replace you. The goal is just to persecute European Americans. If it takes three of them to do it, so be it. I saw that happen several times at my federal contractor. It took three of them to replace me. Since they’re all held to the same Diversity dumb-down-drill, they don’t see any harm because every company is being dragged to the bottom equally.