At ‘Justice for Immigrants’ Mass, Bishop Calls Jesus ‘Divine Immigrant’

Mary Stadnyk and Lois Rogers, National Catholic Reporter, October 17, 2013

Jesus was the “divine immigrant” who lived his life “traveling from place to place,” Bishop David O’Connell of Trenton told the congregation at a midday “Justice for Immigrants” Mass Oct. 11 at St. Mary of the Assumption Cathedral.

“Sacred Scripture tell us where he was from and what his ancestral lineage was,” the bishop said in his homily. “But nowhere in the Bible do we find his permanent address, the location of his house, where he lived after beginning his public ministry.

“He lived and worked as an immigrant, an itinerant preacher, on many levels,” the bishop added.

With comprehensive immigration reform a high priority for many groups across the country, Catholics from throughout the Trenton diocese came together to join O’Connell at the downtown cathedral to pray and show their solidarity on the issue. Some 20 priests of the diocese were concelebrants.

O’Connell spoke of how important it was for the Catholic church to provide people with an opportunity to pray for positive movement on immigration. The Mass was coordinated by Catholic Charities and the diocesan Office of Catholic Social Services.

“It is not the church’s responsibility to enact civil legislation or to take sides or participate as a church in differences of partisan political debates,” he said. “No, it is, rather, the church’s responsibility to educate the faithful in those matters where human moral interaction, informed by the Gospel and church teaching, need to be lifted up and prayerfully considered.”

“That is why we are here today,” the bishop continued. “We believe, after all, that all human beings are created by God in his image. We believe, after all, that Jesus Christ, the word made flesh who dwelt among us, came to save us from sin and our lesser instincts. We believe, after all, that Christ instituted the church as his living body, a community of faith, to continue his saving mission throughout all time.

“And so we, the church, teach and preach his word and his message whenever the opportunity arises. The life that confronts immigrants in our country today is one such opportunity to preach and to teach,” he said.

Recalling the teaching of the Letter to the Ephesians, O’Connell stressed that “we are fellow citizens and members of the household of God.’ The ‘household of God’ has no national boundaries . . . the ‘house of God’ has no ZIP code.”

He also underscored that the church’s social teachings are rooted in “salvation history,” then reviewed several historical moments in Scripture related to immigration–God’s chosen people going from slavery to freedom in the Promised Land as well as Jesus’ life journey on earth, starting with his birth, and leading to his passion, death, resurrection and ascension into heaven.

For the U.S. Catholic bishops, some key principles of immigration reform include: providing a path to citizenship; keeping families together; addressing the root causes of poverty that force people to leave their homeland; and enforcing “targeted, proportional and humane” measures to control borders.


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  • Uhh…

    Jesus was (in his human form) an ethnic Hebrew who had Roman citizenship. Far from being a “divine immigrant,” he was the subject of a foreign occupation.

    • JohnEngelman

      Close, but no cigar. During the first century AD most inhabitants of the Roman Empire were not citizens. St. Paul was a citizen, but not Jesus.

      • Let me try again:

        Legal residency in the Roman Empire.

      • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

        I seize your cigar snatching hand. 1. Christianity no longer “owns” history, therefore it is CE (Current Era) and BCE (Before Current Era) for any scholar or non-Christian that is informed. 2. Saul was an agent of Rome before he got his idea of infiltrating and usurping was has been well established as a Jewish sect in the first century. 3. The claim of sainthood is a kind of endorsement of the system that invaded Europe, suppressed advancement, slaughtered millions during a thousand years of asserting itself and causing white civil wars that have resulted in a white depopulation of Europe and a subsequent rush of non-Europeans into Europe.

        I am on record here as one vehemently against the usefulness of Christianity for whites that are interested in white survival, let alone progress. But I am happy to go on record as one that regards it as the most ridiculous set of propositions and spiritual blackmail in history. The sooner whites recognize this and act according the better our chances for survival.

        • JohnEngelman

          During the Middle Ages Christian monasteries copied the writings of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Without that we would have little knowledge of Greek and Roman literature, history, and science.

          After the fall of the Western Roman Empire the Roman Catholic Church preserved what little survived of civilization in the West.

          The Eastern Roman Empire, which came to be called the Byzantine Empire, was thoroughly Christian. It survived long enough for Western Europe to recover from the Dark Ages.

          • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

            This is the Church version of its value in Western History. Only dupes or ignorant believers still endorse it. The use of AD and BC was just one of the elements in the effort to carry on the very worldly control of minds and subsequently “an earthly kingdom” (empire) for one of the worst and backward sets of religious ideas and claims in history.

            The real historical facts beneath this veneer, constructed for control is the result of centuries of claims and denials, was NOT that the books were copied in order to preserve ancient knowledge “faithfully,” (Some works were preserved by some secretive movements within the clergy (as well illustrated by Umberto Eco in his historical novel “The Name of the Rose,” later a film with Sean Connery). To claim that they did is an incredible (but widely passed) lie. Initially, books were regarded as evil (2nd-8th century) as were numbers, including math. This combined with the Christian superstition, expectations of eminent end of the world/coming of “Christ” actually CAUSED the Dark Ages (long period of backwardness, superstition and often now, unimaginable acts committed by hysterical leaders and followers (see Gibbon, “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.” Try volume 5, page 18 to read about how “St Cyril” dealt with the last of the teachers of the Greek School of Philosophy, Hypatia, and the destruction of the Library in Alexandria that held thousands of works of the ancient world).

            The Church not only fought the advent of the printing press, they fought against literacy of the masses before that. The idea that their laity would be able to read the Bible was a threat to them. By the early 18th century, an English scholar and theologian named John Mills wrote a work that identified up to (but not limited to) thirty thousand variants of the then known to exist copies of The Bible. Since then, the number has vastly expanded as the number of known early translations have increased. The count now is still unknown but it is said that there are more variants in scripture than there are words. (See Bart Ehrman “Misquoting Jesus”).

            Christian copyists only reproduced works or passages of classical writings in order to rebutt or modify them. One good example of this is the act of the early “Church Father” – Origen (2nd c) who wrote a rebuttal to the “pagan” Celus’ book, “The True Word.” It contains parts of Celus’ work, but in a form useful for rebuttal. Forgery and fraud was not a problem for Christian copyists and they employed it with abandon. Such things are easily detectable by the simplest of forensic review today and have been. Another good example is what Christians did in Europe. They destroyed vast caches of written works of folklore, which included the extant religions/spiritual worlds and history (as it was written). What they did not or could not destroy, because they lived on in the hearts and minds (and culture) of the people, they rewrote, modified. So, when we find anything regarding Odin and his cosmological order, we find him a half-blinded, one-eyed wanderer, harassed by a goddess, wife, and limited in his ability to work for the good of man or even save his own “heaven” – Valhalla. In the case of Beowulf, again, the Christian element of “necessary” eclipse is written in. It is only because of modern archeological discoveries and a far freer scholastic world, that rebellious theologians – or scholars on the periphery of Christianity like John Mills (no one was safe completely apart) began the “Free Thinking” movement in the 18th century and subsequent Age of Reason in the West that has allowed Europeans (whites) to elevate themselves technologically and intellectually beyond that previous state which is comparable in almost every way to the modern Islamic fanatic, insisting on Sharia law for all.

            Moreover, in the Middle Ages it was non-Europeans that brought the influences to Europe and sparked the Renaissance. During the Middle Ages, the only medical school in Europe as at Montpelier in Southern France, which was staffed mostly by Jews. The Muslims of the time carried with them the remnants of ancient, Hellenic achievements back into Europe. Yes, Byzantium WAS thoroughly Christian. ALL they copied was the Bible and they are remarkably uniform. (I suggest you read up on the real history of the Eastern Empire contained in Gibbon’s work). This is well known to anyone that has seriously studied European history very long. It was Jewish traders that helped spark the Renaissance through trade (only they could move between the Christian and Muslim worlds) and they maintained the Silk Road to China and trade centers on the Indian coast that Marco Polo relied upon for his intelligences of the East that led him to the journey that became the seminal element that began the rebirth of Europe. The Christian Church could not repress this rebirth, but it did cause horrible civil wars in Europe among “Christians” that only recently might have finally ended (see The Thirty Years War, The English Civil Wars).

            Part of the Christian effort to encompass the world has always been to remake everything into its themes. It used other religions and cultural elements to create itself and established a habit of claiming everything that it could to be theirs (if not, destroy it) and the assumption of ownership of history has been a big part of that. I do not want my history given to me by an institution whose goal is to entrap my spirit by entrapping my mind. I am glad I was born with a seeming genetic innate intelligence that allows me the strength of mind to overcome such attempts. It is absolutely in the interest of whites to be emotionally and intellectually independent of ideas and superstitions that Christianity and Islam represent.

    • Alexandra1973

      When you think about it, Jesus is God, and since He created the earth, He can go wherever He likes.

      But while He was living among man, He was living according to the rules, so to speak.

      • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

        Ha, ha,… good one. So this is why we can see him at work right now, wiping out whites, right?

  • David Ashton

    According to the NT Jesus had a home in Nazareth for the first three decades of his life and then had a base in Capernaum. Even when allegedly taken as an infant across the border to avoid murder, he was never an immigrant, because his parents returned home to restart their building business as soon as danger passed. An itinerant preacher within his own homeland and its immediate environs is not an “immigrant”. And certainly the pagans, muslims and others who pour into the former Christendom do not “Come Down to Earth from Heaven to Save Us All”!!

    • So CAL Snowman

      I don’t recall where in the NT it says that Jesus and his followers went around invading other countries and demanding tribute from the native peoples. Maybe I’ll have to check the Scofield Bible for that one, it seems to be missing in my King James version.

      • David Ashton

        Nor did he say that the Samaritans should occupy the land, as some fools suppose.

      • Brian

        Unlike the Amigos, Jesus also believed in ‘rendering unto Caesar’ and was a healer who had no use of the ER or amberlamps. At the end of his earthly sojourn, he even ‘self-deported’.

    • Stentorian_Commentator

      That sermon is as much of a crock as Jesse Jackson’s “Joseph, Mary, and Jesus were homeless” crap. If the priests want to minister to people from other countries and screw their little boys, by all means, go there, don’t bring them here. If the priests are not inclined to travel, then their mission can be to win back the flock they lost, not try to replace it with another flock.

      • Katherine McChesney

        Catholics are behind the immigration of Latin Catholics to replace Protestants as the dominant religion in the U.S. I read THEIR books. Loyola organized the Society of Jesus to help bring the world under the control of the Vatican with the Pope at the Head.

        • Alexandra1973

          And I think they use Jews as a front to incite anti-Semitism. The Vatican has always hated Jews. Hitler, a good Catholic, said he was just going by the church’s policy concerning Jews.

          • Katherine McChesney

            Agreed. Don’t they call them papal court Jews?

          • Alexandra1973

            I believe I heard that term coined by Sherman Skolnick, a Jew who lived in Chicago and was famous for exposing corrupt judges. He died in 2006. I also associate him with the term “oil-soaked, spy-riddled monopoly press.” He had a web site called Skolnick’s Report.

          • David Ashton

            Hitler gave precisely this early assurance to Catholic clergy, but though raised as an RC, he was never “a good Catholic”, which is partly why the Nazi regime was attacked by the papal encyclical “Mit brennender sorge”. A few patriotic German Catholic priests did their best to work with the regime, notably the distinguished theologian Karl Adam, but Hitler himself moved away from Christian morality and dogma, eventually becoming an enemy of the priests and a personal disbeliever in the supernatural altogther.

    • Brian

      The good bishop has adopted Humpty-Dumpty’s approach to language.

      “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”

  • So CAL Snowman

    If the Catholic Church wants to make a political statement and come out and back amnesty for illegals, it’s high time they are taxed by the government. If the Catholic church is so up in arms about providing “opportunities” for these people, the church could spend it’s BILLIONS on them in their home countries.

  • Truthseeker

    Are people really dumb enough to believe this crap? (Rhetorical question, I already know the unfortunate answer) So traveling from one place to another makes you an “immigrant”? No, it makes you a traveler. “Immigrant” implies someone who makes a permanent home somewhere. I once visited a church that preached this same type of garbage. They equated nomadic peoples to “immigrants,” and they use Biblical commands not to treat them poorly as proof that God wants us to give away our land, culture and resources to them. What a crock.

    You want to do right by the outsiders? What about the insiders? You know, the people who give this country its character and keep it functional because they have an actual commitment to it? Cultural Marxism is inherently anti-majoritarian, which is why it inevitably leads to failure.

    • Sick of it

      Pseudo-churches like that are part of the reason people are turning away from God. Then there’s the televangelist types who preach about worldly things or making people feel good while ignoring the Gospel. You cannot serve both God and Mammon.

      • Greg Thomas

        I do not need organized religion or a church to have a relationship with God.

        • Katherine McChesney

          But, the Bible tells us to worship with other Christians. My church is not politically correct and it’s Conservative to the hilt. Try a Presbyterian Church in America congregation. It’s an amazing group of people. White as can be.

  • Andy

    I, too, support “Justice for [Illegal] Immigrants”.

    But their definition of justice seems quite out of line with the Church’s teachings.

  • Jesse James

    I feel like an immigrant in the United States but the country I was from was America and now I find myself magically whisked by time into this new country of Amerika. This certainly isn’t the country that I was born into.

    • Brian

      You live around Atlanta, right? If you go up Buford Hwy on a Saturday night, say from North Druid Hills to Indian Trail, you might not see a single other white man. Stranger in a strange land…

      • Jesse James

        Outside Athens actually but I know Atlanta. Yes exactly, exiled in our own homeland.

  • Spartacus

    It’s been a while since I’ve read the Bible, but doesn’t the Old Testament say that you can enslave or kill those who “come through the back door to your kingdom”, or something along those lines ?

    • Katherine McChesney

      There were those who owed money debts to Hebrews. They could pay off their debt by becoming their slave, however, when the year of Jubilee came all debts were dissolved and slaves were freed from all further obligations.

      • Alfred the Great

        Only the slaves who were Israelites were set free in their seventh year.

        • Katherine McChesney

          Not true. ALL slaves were set free during the Year of Jubilee.

          • Alfred the Great

            From KJV
            (Lev 25:44-55) “Both thy bondmen [slaves], and thy bondmaids [slaves],…which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy [slaves].” In 45 it goes on to state that the slaves “shall be your possession.” In 46: “And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen [slaves] for ever.” Then it goes on to talk about how Israelites are to redeem other Israelites who are slaves of strangers (foreigners, aliens). In this situation is where the year of jubilee comes in.
            (Deu 15:12) “And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.” Again, it is only for Israelites who are slaves.
            Hope this helps.

    • Charles W.

      The Old Testament is not binding on Christians one way or another. The Old Covenant is called “old” for a reason.

      • Katherine McChesney

        It is an important part of our teachings. My church recognizes the Old Testament Prophesy and we study it as much as we study the New Testament.

  • Spartacus

    Shouldn’t this guy be concerned with more pressing issues of Christianity ?

  • Katherine McChesney

    The Catholic church has an abundance of pagan, Babylonian beliefs. What’s one more? Clearly they are liberal, what with Liberation Theology and Redistribution of Wealth and the Jesuits as their Marxist military arm of the church.

    • Alexandra1973

      Who do you think taught Marx?

      • David Ashton

        Not the Catholics for sure.

    • David Ashton

      It could be argued that the Trinity, the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection are “pagan” beliefs just as much as the Five Extra Sacraments, the Pope’s Hat, Holy Relics and the Rosary, &c.

      What became of the Divine Protection promised to the Teaching Church in space and time against which the Gates of Hell would never prevail?

      In my youth the Jesuits were firm enemies of Marxism, and wrote some of the best books against it.

  • Charles W.

    The Church has been under attack inside and out for a long time now. Notice how you are even beginning to see hints of homosexuality being accepted in the Church. From usury to fornication to contraception to abortion to sodomy, they just keep folding on one issue after another. The notion that “a good Christian” should want to open the borders of the civilized nations to the godless third world, bringing with it a skyrocketing increase of rape, robbery and murder, is absurd.

    Anyway, trash like the above is a major reason why I can’t in good conscience give the Church as much as I would like to anymore.

    • David Ashton

      This is one reason why I gave up on the Christian churches, including the Catholics. They were abandoning their own morality.

      The other main reason was the persuasive attack by Christian scholars, including Catholics, on the factual credibility of the New Testament. They were abandoning their own faith.

  • IKantunderstand

    I don’t care what the hell Jesus was. What the f does that have to do with the here and now?It seems like everybody in this country is a two faced whore. If you are a Liberal, you want immigration because “It’s the right thing to do”. Based on what? Ohh, well, it turns out, those atheistic Liberals, want to base their immigration platform on Christian values! Which, based on the fact, that they are all atheists, makes no damn sense! However, without Christianity as their background, what other argument do they have? If there is no morality imposed by Christianity, than what the hell are they basing their position on? OOOH, man’s innate love for their fellow man? Really? Seriously? Has that been proven by history? Man’s love for their fellow man? Really? The entire history of the world has been based on the LOVE for one’s fellow man? Really? Are you f’ing kidding me?

    • Brian

      I’m an atheist and I base my actions on what is good for myself, my blood and kin (most of whom are Christians), my community, nation and race (and species/planet I suppose, were we to be attacked by little green men). I try to live by the Golden Rule but I do not turn the other cheek. In the largest, most long-term sense, I favor whatever will increase intelligence and wisdom, truth and beauty, and the spread thereof.

  • me

    Institutionalized, post-modern ‘Christianity’ is a mental disorder. Thanks, Roman Catholicism, for doing your part in White genocide! It’s just one of the many ‘gifts’ you’ve given Western society, including ‘priest’ pedophilia and ‘indulgences’.

    • Alfred the Great

      Their clergy has a problem with homosexuals within their midst. And thank you for using the correct terminology, Roman Catholicism. They are not the Catholic Church, which means the universal church.

      • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

        It always had been an attraction to many types that could not make it in the “real world.” But if you think homosexuality in the monasteries is new, you need to do some reading and perhaps travel to enforce it. Also, many nuns were pregnant when they entered into the nunnery or later. This is why their “habit” was so flowing. I have visited old nunneries in Europe where the skeletons of babies were found between walls – in masses.

  • WR_the_realist

    If anybody here is still Catholic now is the time to convert to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. It’s Catholicism without the political correctness.

    • Katherine McChesney

      There are Protestant churches that are politically incorrect. I attend one affiliated with the Presbyterian Church of America.

      • Alexandra1973

        I’m a member of an independent fundamental Baptist church. I believe there are closet realists in that congregation. You know, when you knock on doors and go soul-winning, you tend to know the good and bad parts of town…and who populates which area.

  • Alfred the Great

    I am Episcopal. I tried the Orthodox Church for a while, but then I found a 1928 Prayer Book Episcopal Church and started going there.

  • je suis paganisme

    These people are just front men. They preach simplicity and poverty, while fronting for one of the wealthiest corporations on earth. They (the priests) will be taken care of. The little people who listen to them will not. It was amazing how the church took care of the pedophile priests, while caring nothing for those wronged.

  • Alexandra1973

    The “Jesus” Catholics worship is a little wafer baked in an oven.

    Catholicism is nothing more than paganism given a Christian label.

    The Vatican declares our Constitution to be anathema. Why? Because it enumerates (not “grants”) our God-given freedoms. With Catholicism you have to check your mind at the door.

    It’s not just a racial war, it’s a religious war. Last time I checked, Mexico is predominantly Catholic.

    • Katherine McChesney

      A great book on Roman Catholicism is “50 Years in the ‘Church’ of Rome” by Father Charles Chiniquy. It exposes that church for what it really is.

      • Alexandra1973

        I have that book. Got it from Chick Publications. It’s the abridged edition, but it’s still pretty good.

  • Alexandra1973

    Don’t. It’s similar to Catholicism. There was a split several hundred years ago, with the western church becoming Catholicism, the eastern Orthodox.

  • Herman

    I understand peoples’ anger at the Catholic Church position but what are they suppose to do?
    Imagine the outrage if the Church came out strongly against illegal immigration.
    It is a no-win situation for them.

    • Jesse James

      Like the rest of us they need to pick a side – which evidently they have done. They chose to support white genocide. The Church has taken the path that Jean Raspail predicted in “The Camp of the Saints”. If you haven’t read that bit of prophecy yet you really should. If they tried to stay “neutral” on this issue they would be spit out by both sides for the error of being neither hot nor cold.

  • In non-White countries “immigrant” means temporary guest-worker.
    In White countries, “immigrant” means future citizen.
    It’s criminal how liberals use the same word for both.

    • Katherine McChesney

      Actually, the second sentence could be questioned. Given their absolute devotion to their latin countries they will soon lobby for extensions of their guest-worker status and deny citizenship.

      I believe a law should be passed forbidding them from sending billions of our money back to their homelands.

  • Jesse James

    The church doesn’t care if white Americans leave the faith. They learned how to survive when white Europeans abandoned Christianity. The plan is just to replace you using the same source the corporations are using to increase profits and cut their labor expense – Third World non-white immigrants.

  • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

    Since its start. Read any early church history, but especially Edward Gibbon’s classic, “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.” It’s all there. But Christianity had to “borrow” from every already existing “pagan” religion in order to present its basic Judaic premises to non-Jews. This is what “Paul” (actually a Hellenized Jew named Saul- did).

    • David Ashton

      According to the Nazi Alfred Rosenberg, Paul was really Shaul, the archetypal Jewish Communist.

      Accord to the Zionist Hyam Maccoby, Paul was really Solon, the archetypal Gentile Antisemite.

      Poor old Paul, epileptic and homophobe, he can never win!

      • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

        Well, such a ridiculous collection of stories and claims combined with fraud and usurpation (from the start, Paul (Saul) was the father of it) probably deserves nothing less.

        • David Ashton

          I still consider it a sweeping overstatement to say that Christianity has “no basis” whatever, and was entirely and merely “stolen” from other religions. But no doubt our areas of scholarly study are divergent.

          • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

            I think that it was formed up from extant Judaism and polytheisms of the time is a matter of historical fact. Usurpation was the mode of operation from the start and it continues to today. It is easy to outline this, but Gibbon’s “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” supplies much evidence for it. Bart Ehrman is an American theologian that researched early Christianity his entire life. He has written a series of books on the subject. “Misquoting Jesus” is one I own. If you want to understand more about it, I recommend that one. Another historian, Joel Carmichael, wrote a very interesting one, long before many others, “Creating Christianity.”

            Ever read Umberto Eco’s “The Name of the Rose?” The film is quite good.

            Recently the Vatican has approved the theory of evolution. if they have enough time they will eventually claim to have first suggested it (or nearly).

          • David Ashton

            Formed up from extant judaisms (plural) is nearer, and provides a better framework for the “marginal Jew” than a total-myth person. There are some useful recent critiques of Bart Ehrman, also his controversy with Earl Doherty.

            I have been interested in the origins of Christianity, though as an amateur unable to translate either NT Greek or Aramaic, since my youthful study (already mentioned) of earlier Christ Myth theorists and their refutations. I have read Carmichael, Winter, Maccoby, Fredricksen, Vermes and Sanders, among many others, on the life and death of Jesus, but also some of their their critics – both Christian and atheist. My present view is that he was a real person, with a demonstrable sense of humour as a well as of “apocalyptic” mission.

            As for Eco, I have read only “Foucault’s Pendulum”, an admirably well-informed deflation of modern occult/conspiracy fantasies; and “The Prague Cemetery”, unfortunately undermined by the fresh research into the “Protocols” by Hagemeister and De Michaelis – I wrote to him about this latter development, without response. I would like to see the youthful Essay that earned him a Prize in Fascist Italy.

            I do not wish to go further into my biography here unless the information is of interest to other readers here.

            The only real problem of Catholics over evolution is the infusion of an immortal soul in the first men and women, especially as the racial variety of homo sapiens indicates polygenism. Personally I can see problems with the evolutionary transformation by mutation and selection, from one species to another, though I do not accept the literal historicity of Adam’s Eden or Noah’s Ark.

          • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

            I agree with as much as you have said about your view of “Jesus.” There is much more to say regarding the religion that uses that mythical man (whatever he was in real life), as it came well after the purported time of his life. Few seem to remember that his period is separated from the actual beginning of that religion by a cataclysmic war by Rome against Judea and “Israel.”

            What I notice about the expected critics of people like Erhman is a response barely concealing a bias toward denial of the forensically irrefutable. What is easily palpable beneath their pseudo-intellectualism is the impulse to defend a deeply vested interest. Indeed, to defend as valid, such an obviously silly set of claims like virgin birth, resurrection and supernatural rule of the world and universe requires a detachment of mind that is probably responsible for the traditional problem of what has been termed, “The Schizophrenia of the West.”

            It is not even necessary to have a degree of any sort to understand the evidence and see that the Early Church Fathers, etc., had no idea that handwriting would be analyzed along with phrase and word use. There was no sophisticated school of logic or debate involved as we know it. Superstitions were believed and what supported them and suited the political aims was what was judged correct. But there is also much evidence that they knew what they were doing. There are so many recorded examples of the Early and even later Church leaders, including Martin Luther that formed and continued the use of deception and falsehood in order to promote and preserve their religion. I have tried, but I can’t insert them here. Here is one, credited to “saint” Jerome;

            “There is nothing so easy as by sheer volubility to deceive a common crowd or an uneducated congregation.”

            – St. Jerome (Epistle to Nepotian, Lii, 8.)

            It is important to remember that “Catholic” means “universal” and the Church actually makes no defense of the fact that they absorbed many other “pagan” forms of religion, most notably Mithraism, but many others, including the regional adoption of pagan gods as local saints, along with ancient holy sites for construction of churches, or even the conversion of pagan temples to churches. Little touches such as the absorption of local sacred springs as Christian miracle sites, places of Christian healing miracles, etc., is common as well.

            The greatest and most singularly successful conspiracy of all time has been and is Christianity. Eco illustrates some of that in “The Name of the Rose.” I don’t think that any Christian alive today, including the Pope, could survive a review by the “Inquisition.”

            Evolution is not about a chance product of random mutations, it is about which random mutations were selected as the best suited for survival/adaptation.

          • David Ashton

            Did you miss my comment on e.g. the conversion of pagan sites?The relationship to Mithraism is a matter of scholarly dispute since the work of Cumont, though “everyone” knows about 25 December.

            Is the statement by Jerome a recommendation, or a critical observation?

            The notion that the cosmos in apparent process and therefore “contingent” is dependent upon a Self-existent Being is not entirely irrational (Aristotle, Aquinas, Leibniz, Swinburne, etc), though I am personally now an atheist.

            With respect, you should widen your research to take in critics of both myth theories and pagan borrowings, and also the dating of Synoptic and Pauline matter probably predating the destruction of Jerusalem, even if they happen to be Christians or Jews; e.g. E. M. Yamauchi, or even P. R. Eddy & G. A. Boyd.

            I understand the concept of natural or social selection of favourable of unfavourable phenotypes once they exist (e.g. war or plague), but the nature and rate of mutations raise problems discussed with varying degrees of satisfactory application in modern studies of neo-darwinism. I am a longstanding Fellow of the Royal Anthropological Institute and Member of the Galton Institute.

    • Alexandra1973

      You’re probably referring to the Catholic “church” there.

      You know, that’s a reason why I don’t keep Christmas or Easter. Those are pagan holidays–essentially Catholic holidays. Jesus rose from the dead three days after Passover, during what was the Days of Unleavened Bread. Passover and Easter are sometimes about a month apart. In fact Herod observed Easter (see Acts 12:1-4 KJV).

      Seems the Protestant denominations that broke away couldn’t shake all of Catholicism during the Reformation.

      • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

        Such a fraudulent religion as it is actually has no basis for any of its existence. The entire thing was merely stolen from other extant religions and cultures. You sound like you’re on a very small island and a pretty empty one, at that.

  • Katherine McChesney

    Many of those Biblical sites are run by the Roman Catholics. They want to control Israel also.

  • David Ashton

    Jesus preached lived and preached mainly in Galilee. (There is a Bethlehem not far west of Nazareth.) According to the NT he did not avoid every non-Jewish area, but was certainly not an immigrant. Most of his closest disciples were Galileans with Greek names, though Judas Iscariot was possibly of Judean birth if his “surname” refers to Kerioth rather than ownership of the common purse.

  • Erasmus

    Let the illegal aliens support the church. My money is going elsewhere.