The Confederacy of Takers

Dana Milbank, Washington Post, November 13, 2012

President Obama’s opponents have unwittingly come up with a brilliant plan to avoid the “fiscal cliff.” They want to secede from the union.

If Obama were serious about being a good steward of the nation’s finances, he’d let them.

The White House, in one of those astro-turf efforts that make people feel warm about small-d democracy, launched a “We the People” program on its Web site last year, allowing Americans to petition their government for a redress of grievances. {snip}

And so a large number of patriotic Americans, mostly from states won by Mitt Romney last week, have petitioned the White House to let them secede. They should be careful about what they wish for. It would be excellent financial news for those of us left behind if Obama were to grant a number of the rebel states their wish “to withdraw from the United States and create [their] own NEW government” (the petitions emphasize “new” by capitalizing it).

Red states receive, on average, far more from the federal government in expenditures than they pay in taxes. The balance is the opposite in blue states. The secession petitions, therefore, give the opportunity to create what would be, in a fiscal sense, a far more perfect union.

Among those states with large numbers of petitioners asking out: Louisiana (more than 28,000 signatures at midday Tuesday), which gets about $1.45 in federal largess for every $1 it pays in taxes; Alabama (more than 20,000 signatures), which takes $1.71 for every $1 it puts in; South Carolina (26,000), which takes $1.38 for its dollar; and Missouri (22,000), which takes $1.29 for its dollar.

{snip} To be fair, White House officials could refuse the secession petitions of states Obama won, such as New York (which gets only 79 cents on its tax dollar), Michigan (85 cents) and Colorado (79 cents).

What would be left is a Confederacy of Takers, including relatively poor states such as Alaska, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Mississippi. One of the few would-be Confederacy members that pays more than it receives is Texas, which because of oil money is roughly break-even at 94 cents of benefits for its tax dollar. {snip}.


But once the handout states left the union (and took with them a proportionate share of the federal debt), the rest of the country could enjoy lower taxes and the high level of government service typical of the Northeast, the Great Lakes and the West Coast.


Of course, secession isn’t as easy or as painless as an electronic petition, and Obama couldn’t offer a redress of these petitioners’ grievances even if he wanted to. Nor should he want to: The Union of the Makers would be fiscally healthy but spiritually poor without the Confederacy of the Takers.

Yet would-be rebels from the red states should keep in mind during the coming budget battle that those who are most ardent about cutting government spending tend to come from parts of the country that most rely on it.


Editor’s Note: The following reply was sent to Mr. Milbank:

Dear Mr. Milbank,

I read with interest your recent tongue-in-cheek article regarding red state secession. You point out that many red states are net takers from the federal government and that their secession would be a boon to the federal ledger. I fear your analysis is a bit short-sighted, however.

If red states established their own governments, we would expect them to be quite limited, with little in the way of welfare or make-work government jobs. I expect this would result in a mass exodus of the dependent class to the more generous corners of the old Union. Since this class is disproportionately non-white, it would be welcomed with open arms due to the blue states’ professed love of diversity.

The New York Times produced an excellent interactive map in 2009 that showed food stamp usage by county. It lets you to toggle between food stamp use by whites (a category which may well include Hispanics) and blacks. A quick glance shows that in most Southern counties, whites take advantage of food stamps at rates between only 0 and 11.5 percent, compared to rates between 25 and 50 percent for blacks.

This is, of course, only one welfare program, but you will find the same contrast in all of them. In the southern states, blacks voted overwhelmingly Democratic (96 percent of black voters in Mississippi voted for Obama, as did 95 percent in Alabama) and whites voted overwhelmingly Republican (89 percent of white voters in Mississippi went for Romney, as did 84 percent in Alabama). When one party offers handouts and the other wants to reduce them, it’s easy to see why blacks and whites voted as they did.

The result of southern secession and the end of federal largess would be a second Great Black Migration, along with a Hispanic Migration. Voters in Washington and Maine would get all the diversity they’ve been clamoring for, and black and Hispanic migrants would escape the South’s fabled “racism.” Finally, southern whites would be relieved from the federal domination they’ve been trying to cast off for the past 150 years. Clearly, this is a win-win-win situation.

Best regards,
Henry Wolff
Website Editor, American Renaissance

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  • Puggg

    Great response by Mr. Wolff, but I’m sure it wasn’t a hard one to craft.

    Any metric that shows “the South” or “red states” (a polite way of saying “The South”) having poor social or cultural metrics is almost always a result of blacks.

    • Francis Galton

      Bingo! That’s what the more-enlightened-than-thou leftists completely miss when they snark about red states (not a stable or definitive classification to begin with) being net federal welfare states–most red states also have a large number of minorities, who make disproportionate use of federal tax dollars.

      Internally speaking, most blue states are FAR worse off fiscally than most red states, and it’s NOT because they send more money to DC than they get back.

    • I believe it would do great justice to explain WHY the States with the highest Black populations had the highest White voter turn-out for Romney. In return, those States with almost NO Black residents voted overwhelmingly for Obama.

      The Answer, my friend: The more you are around Blacks the more you know. Southerners KNOW the Black culture since they have to see it. Thus, they want no part of it.

      Those in Vermont, Maine, etc have NO idea. They are fools. But, when their States are flooded with Somali and Hutu “refugees”, then they will learn. They will also learn it is too late and they have been lied to.

      • Patterson’s First Axiom.

      • Pelayo

        Maine has already started its “reality check” with the influx of Somalis to Lewiston who bring their third world customs with and cling to both their Muslim customs and often bloody rituals such as honor killing and rape. I will forever be unable to understand why the planters spend all that money to buy slaves instead of hiring poor white southerners. We are still suffering for the violent legacy they dumped on future generations.

        • IanJMacDonald

          Had my ancestors know this, they would have picked their own damned cotton.

        • JohnEngelman

          I think we can all agree that Southern whites should have grown their own cotton and tobacco. The slave trade was America’s original sin, for which we have been punished ever since. The United States would be a far better country if it had never existed,

          • Tucker

            Amazing. I find myself agreeing with John Engelman.

          • Gracchus123

            Let’s remember that there were slaves in the northern states as well as the southern states. Slavery was just as evil in either place. It is just as evil in the places it exists today.

          • Periapsis

            For once I agree with you, but everyone with a lick of sense knows greed is the root from which slavery has sprung and continues to spring today. It’s greed on the part of my maternal ancestors that helped get us to this point, today.

      • Tucker

        Wait until those White Fathers discover the ‘joys’ of receiving a late night phone call from the local police, who’ll be calling from the hospital to inform them that their teenage White daughter is in the emergency room, following her being on the receiving end of a healthy application of Bantu Somali ebony acupuncture by a dozen or more IQ of 70 ethnic cousins of who they decided to vote for on November 6th, 2012.

      • Nate

        “those States with almost NO Black residents voted overwhelmingly for Obama”

        Absolutely not true, what about the lily white midwestern states that voted Romney, like Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Idaho, Nebraska, Kansas and Montana.

        • Gracchus123

          What about them? Well, those hard-working cowboys have more sense than those do-gooder, liberal elites in the North-East. 

          Remember, those elites are the descendants of the do-gooder Puritans and are now the pseudo-intellectuals who populate those “elite” Ivy-league schools.

          those “elites” think they know what’s best for the rest of us; those cowboys know better.

          • Micah

            They have nothing in common with their Puritan forebears.

    • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

      “Great Response by Mr. Wolff . . .”

      Disagree. It was a fabulous response.

  • Just a thought . . .

    What if a state were to issue its own gold-based currency?

    • RisingReich

      Then the world will have to rise up, and defeat this ‘evil Empire’ you speak of.
      Jews and money changers of the world will never tollerate it.

      • That is a no no.

      • elitist

        yet another out of the closet NAZI at AMREN – yup, this is what helps the white movement go mainsteam: invoking Hitler and the Holocuats! way to go, guys!

        • John Bonham

          Huh ?? SMH

        • It is better to be ruled by Nazis than Africans.

          • Gracchus123

            The nightmare. The Nazis are Africans.

    • jack ryan

      One problem. The Red states don’t have any Gold.

  • sammy

    Responding to the WaPo article:

    I’ve seen this logic time and time again: “the red states are crazy / ignorant rednecks for wanting to be out of the union, because they take more than they receive“. Another variation of this is, “the red states are ignorant in wanting to cut welfare because they receive so much welfare payment!” Likewise about the red states voting against Obama. “How could these rednecks be so ignorant to vote against their own interests?”

    These types of articles are so dishonest. The red states vote against welfare precisely because they have so many welfare leeches living in the red states and they see exactly what their money is going to, namely obese single illiterate mothers with bad attitudes and half a dozen or more children, who are unable to complete dumbed-down American high school. The only states that vote for more welfare are the truly ignorant states, like Vermont and Maine, which have very few black welfare leeches, and the states like California that have so many EBT leeches that they control the electorate.

    I can’t stand this particular transparently deceitful line of argument. Of course red states want to cut welfare because they see where the money goes and they would love for all their Lshanquas to move to Canada!

    • Magnus Von Magnus

      It’s the same type of deceit when STD stats come out ranked by state. Southern red states always rank high, and vitriolic lefties point out the contradiction that while White Southerners are very religious, their states’ have the highest STD rates, falsely implying a correlation between the two. It never occurs to them that those numbers are representative of Southern blacks, who make up over 37% of the population in MS. I looked up the numbers on the CDC website one day, and the STD rate in black populations is simply staggering.

      • Jeff

        Yeah that’s a great point also. Lefties always point out that the red states excel in STDs, abortions, and single moms, as if this is some hypocrisy on the part of red state conservatives. No, the reason there are so many conservatives in red states is because they see blacks, and I mean real blacks, not abstract blacks or Redtails blacks, every day.

      • Jeff

        Wow I just saw an article today: Red states have more traffic accidents. All the comments make jokes about rednecks being bad drivers because of Jesus (somehow). In reality, blacks are careless about safety and human life in general, so I presume they are worse drivers, and also red states suffer from endless white flight, meaning everyone has to spend hours in traffic every day to get away from black people.,0,308118.story

        I’ve heard about higher rates of STDs and everything else but now I see that liberals are gloating over blaming redneck Christians for traffic accidents in Georgia.

        This whole series of arguments about how “conservative whites are evil because red states have bad statistics in STDs / single moms / highschool dropouts / traffic accidents” is despicable and dishonest.

        • This is just another example of the ignorant drawing conclusions about that which they have no idea.

          However, I have doubts about higher accidents levels in the southern states, I”ve driven in New York, Chicago, and other large cities. They’re about the worst drivers on this continent. That’s why public transportation is required, it takes the no-talent drives off the roads.

    • GrandpaT

      Health and welfare are not the only areas affected by race and ethnicity. Schooling, law enforcement, taxes, public and private employment regulations, and infrastructure costs are affected as well.

  • Mark Tenney

    One step closer to Takergeddon, the final expulsion of the takergraphic.

  • JohnEngelman

    What I saw were counties with a higher percentage of whites on food stamps than blacks, and generally higher white dependence in red states.

    • There’s one way to find out — Agreed.

    • If we had White Only States then blacks would not have to be concerned with us and we Whites would not have to be concerned with them.

      You, though, can live with the blacks.

      • JohnEngelman

        I would rather live with Orientals and Jews.

        It is a moot point, however. There will not be white only states. Right now, the white mainly states vote Democrat.

        • Net_Drifter

          Hong Kong would be heaven for you. Chinese culture but overlaid with a giddy world city vibe. The best of both worlds for you.

          • JohnEngelman

            I would also like to live in Israel. Unfortunately, I have never been good at learning foreign languages.

          • Sherman_McCoy

            That, my friend, puts one at a disadvantage. Getting a minor in German along with picking up Russian, has given me freedom and flexibility to decide in which white country I want to live. Germany at the moment, perhaps Russia is things continue to deteriorate vis-a-vis the flood of muslim and african immigration into Europe.

          • JohnEngelman


            With a murder rate per 100,000 of 10.2 yearly the murder rate of Russia is slightly higher than that of Liberia, and a little bit lower than Peru’s. In the United States the murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants is 4.2.


            The per capita domestic product in Russia is $16,700. In the Untied States it is $48,300. In socialist Norway it is $53,400. The murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants is 0.6 in Norway. Perhaps you should move to Norway.


          • Bismark

            But surely John, English is spoken as a second language for most people in Israel..

          • Gracchus123

            Most people in Israel speak English better than most Americans; go ahead and move. There’s a sale on flack jackets at Macy’s this Friday.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Buy a good set of shooter’s hearing muffs; I believe it is a little noisy there at night of late.

    • Dan Reardon

      But then you see unicorns too, don’t you Mr. Engleman.

    • Son of Sambo

      Yeah, and I saw Elvis and Bigfoot having a three-way with the Loch Ness Monster.
      Go find a bridge in Brooklyn to crawl under, you unoriginal, prissy little troll.

      • JohnEngelman

        I sumbitted Dana Milbank’s column to American Renaissance. I also have the self confidence to sign my comments with my real name.

    • Screamin_Ruffed_Grouse

      My smartphone is apparently not smart enough to display the NYT chart. Pleaes clarify: a greater percentage of the White population than of the black population was on food stamps; or a greater percentage of the total population using food stamps was White? Depending on the overall demographics of a given county, the latter does not sound necessarily improbable. The former does.

      • JohnEngelman

        I did not say that a greater percentage of the white population nationally is on food stamps than is the black population. I said that there are counties where this is true.

        Also, in some Southern states a higher percentage of whites were on food stamps than in some Northern states.

        The chart would have been easier to analyze if instead of breaking the data into counties, it was broken down into the fifty states and the District of Columbia. Then it would probably take less than an hour to compare average white dependence on food stamps in states that voted for President Obama and states that voted for Mitt Romney.

        I do not deny that nationally blacks are more likely to be on food stamps than are whites.

  • The__Bobster

    A primary reason why the red states take in more than they pay out is because they’re the home for most of the military bases. If they seceded, the yankees would have to open and pay for bases in their states…and sacrifice their own blood for Israel.

    • Puggg

      And that’s because historically, white Southerners is where you find the military talent. Also, who wants to live on an Army base in Maine in January?

      • Tucker

        White Southerners are fools for joining the military we have in place today.

    • Michael_C_Scott

      Exactly. Does anyone really imagine we would allow the federals to continue to use our military bases for free? In Colorado alone, we have Fort Carson, the Air Force Academy, Peterson Air Force Base, Schriever Air Force Base, Cheyenne Mountain, Buckley Air Force Base, and the Pueblo Chemical Depot.

      Moreover, the coastal states would assume direct ownership of their 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zones. In the cases of Florida and Alaska these are non-trivial areas. Finally, we could save huge amounts of tax money by cracking down on illegal aliens and deporting them en masse. The savings in law-enforcement and prisons alone would be huge. The only thing preventing states from requiring random drug tests for anyone on public assistance is the US Supreme Court. With them out of the way, we could slash the welfare rolls. We could also end foreign aid, which works out to $167 forcibly taken from each and every American, each year. In Colorado alone that works out to $853 million.

      If the federals wanted to use our roads, they would have to pay us for real license plates, rather than simply issuing themselves “US Government” plates.

      If states downhill from Colorado remaining in the Union wanted water, they would have to pay us for it.

      The list of ways we could save money goes on and on.

      • You don’t need drug testing if you end government welfare, which we would do in South Carolina.

        We’d also end voting for those that have been on welfare, say in the last five years, end voting for those that don’t own property, and end voting for those born in other states. We want a whole lot LESS access to the ballot.

  • You Are Now Enriched

    Secession is a good rallying cry and polarizing strategy, but it is a bad tactic for real change.

    How many of those who signed the petition then started a petition in their home states demanding that their local governments and mayors enact nullifying interposition against anti white Obamacare or anti white Agenda 21 (sustainability, regional planning, smart meters, etc.)

    • Svigor

      How about the part where you explain why secession is a bad idea?

      • You Are Now Enriched

        Because it’s too soon, same as when South Carolina seceded in 1860.

        S.C. never did nullify a single law passed by Lincoln, which should have preceded secession.

        They left out the most important step.

        • The Traveler

          “Small Steps”

          Contact, 1997

    • Tucker

      I will confess that I have been very suspicious of this entire ‘secession petition movement’ from almost the first moment I got wind of it. I’m still suspicious.

      However, if I were to pretend that it is legitimate – my thoughts might be that the passion that superficially appears to be driving it might be useful in that it could be sending a few electric shock waves through the spines of the traitors up in D.C. That’s assuming, of course, that its not simply one more of their endless list of devious tricks which are designed to fan the flames of division and to keep the entire country divided, feeling insecure about the future, and completely disoriented.

      Under the legitimate scenario, these slime balls see their record setting disapproval ratings, see record setting sales of firearms and ammunition, see growing numbers of people – many considered influential voices – predicting a Civil War or Second American Revolution followed by a breakup of the USA, and it would be fairly easy to envision that at least a few of the sewer rats in D.C. dropping bigger than average beads of sweat off their brows.

      And, when I ponder all this – I find myself hearing Sam Dickson’s voice in my head, from an old radio interview he did once where he noted that the left seems to be unable to throttle back on their anti-White hatred and venom spewing, even though, at some level, the smarter leftists must realize that the end result is going to be something that none of them are going to really like.

  • Unperson

    As cogent and correct as Mr. Wolff’s response obviously is, I’d prefer that when the Dana Milbanks of the world try to tell red-staters they’d be economic basket-cases if they seceded, we’d simply put on our best poker faces and pretend to agree with them. We should tell them, “Yup, us red-state white folks is sho’ nuff a bunch a dumb hicks. you betcha. We cost you liberals and multicultists way too much money with our Federal transfer payments and whatnot, so the best thing you blue-staters could do is to cut us loose. Yeah, we’ll probably go broke just like you say, Mr. Milbank — cuz after all, you’re way smarter than us rednecks — but we’re willing to take that chance. So let’s both get our signatures on the divorce papers, and we can both go our separate ways.”

    The liberal elites think Bubba costs him more money than Jamaal? Fine, let them go on believing that. And let them learn otherwise only AFTER our independence from their happy-faced tyranny has been achieved.

    • Svigor

      Well said.

  • Clearly, this is a win-win-win situation.

    I said so too.

    You’d think the ‘progressive’ left would support this. If the old, evil, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, pro-lifers were to leave, the ‘progressive’ left would have the Utopia they claim we deny them.


    • BUT, then the progressives would move to where the Whites are and start their anti-White hate all over again.

      Progressives hate living around blacks.

    • Pelayo

      And they’ll eventually be exterminated by the taker class whom we were forced to support.

    • Gracchus123

      And there would be no more “institutional racism”, and they’d be free of all that “dead White male” evil. Such a deal.

  • Well actually Kalifornia and New York have more welfare by case load than the other states. The red states also export more resources to the blue states as well.

    Even the term blue state is a lie. It’s actually a few blue enclaves within seas of Red if you really look at the maps.

    I wish all rural producers would just say enough and stop producing for one season after being sure they are stocked before hand. One season of no rural resources to feast on and the Blue enclaves would disintegrate.

  • Dan Reardon

    Oh my goodness! Mr. Wolf just handed Mr. Milbank his arse!

  • Jeff

    There’s only one sentence in the original WaPo article that honestly hints at the real issue: Then there is the awkward matter of what the breakaway nation would do to its poor.

    That’s exactly it. The breakaway states would suddenly not need the extra Federal dollars because they would suddenly cease the gibsmedat situation they’ve got going. Their blacks would plunge from EBT / AA middle class to quasi-third-world poverty within a week. A Jim Crow style system would return immediately. The breakaway states would flourish, without the burdens of paying for a black underclass, with real solutions to crime (Jim Crow) and with pro-business regulations. Meanwhile the blacks would (if they’re allowed to) flee to the wonderful welfare-providing Obama states, plunging them into socialist poverty.

    I’m all for it!

  • Svigor

    Haha Dana, jokes on you. We’d send all the diverse, noble browns and blacks to blue “America.” No one could inflict red-stater bigotry, hatred, and racism on the black and brown nobility in good conscience.

    Actually, they’d send themselves; we’d just need to stop the entitlement gravy train and they’d run to blue “America” as fast as their little legs could carry them.

  • Lets not forget that social security benefits represent the largest pool of welfare funds administrated by the federal government. As such, people who receive their monthly social security checks are the largest welfare recipients in the nation.

    • Clever. Of course you are insulting older WHITE people by your infantile snide remark.

      The elderly White people were FORCED into this Ponzi scheme. You can not opt out. It is FORCED on us all and was instigate by the Communist Roosevelt.

      Nice try.

      • purestocles

        Administration fees for SS run 3% per annum-the cheapest of ANY insurance available in America (where 12 to 15% is typically skimmed off). Just because you paid for your parents and your children will pay for you does not make it a ponzi scheme. Additionally, WE, our generation has paid in (since Greenspan recognized the potential shortfall for baby boomers back in 1983) far in excess of what was needed to cover our parent’s old age needs. The account is currently running a huge surplus, though one would not know that from reading the so-called “liberal press”. Without any tinkering present benefits could be paid through 2037 or thereabouts. With minor tinkering payments could be paid indefinitely. SS is a screaming deal.

        What if, when one had to draw down their investments in their personal retirement account the market happened to be at a cyclical low? Then they would take a huge hit on their principle and that can’t be recouped. Think it through, man! The only people who benefit from plans such as Bush’s would be the brokers because they make money whether you’re winning or losing. After reviewing what has happened since 2007 can their be any doubt in your mind that the greatest threats to our welfare are the Wall Street Bankers? Is there any group as powerful as them in our society today? Most of the big banks are still on (government) life support and yet still pay themselves huge bonuses while middle class mortgage holders still face ruin. And now you want to take away what little social insurance we have managed to provide for ourselves?

        • Michael_C_Scott

          “Just because you paid for your parents and your children will pay for you does not make it a Ponzi scheme”.

          But that is the classic definition of a Ponzi scheme! In fact it is worse than a Ponzi scheme because one has no choice but to participate, other than going to federal prison for tax evasion. Bernie Madoff was a dirtbag, but he wasn’t strong-arming his clients.

          • purestocles

            A Ponzi scheme is, by definition, a scam. There is no hope, no possible way that those late to the party can benefit from their investment (or even recoup it). SS on the other hand is audited yearly and set up to remain viable on a 75 year time horizon. Your children’s children’s children will benefit ad infinitum as long as there is social trust. If that trust is lost (and it has been lost interracially in America today) then things break down and fall apart. I can understand why whites are disinclined to foot the bill for programs that largely benefit ingrate minorities. But when we no longer feel the need to care for our elderly we will have become barbarians.

            On the other hand, Medicare and Medicaid costs are spiraling out of control and must be reined in. Inefficiencies in our medical care delivery system if allowed to continue on their present trajectory will bankrupt our country–as surely as it is now the leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            There is also no possible way to sustain Social Security except by eventually importing the whole world to the US and forcing them to pay into the system. The instant we have a smaller number of workers than we have in recipients, the system will begin to implode. With the DHS now giving new immigrants instructions on how to apply for welfare, it should be obvious that recent arrivals are not expected to work.

      • John Bonham

        FORCED !! Exactly , and forced exactly like Obamacare .. Tyranny …

    • purestocles

      Welfare?!?!?! You and I and he and she paid into SS. That’s our money! Pull your head out of your ***. We’ve had the foresight (typical of White people) to insure our welfare and dignity in anticipation of our old age. Don’t let anyone tell you differently and don’t try to tell us differently. You’ve been reading propaganda from the wrong side of the economic/social divide.

    • Net_Drifter

      This kind of thinking is one reason I loathe people like Rush Limbaugh.

      • Jerrybear

        I don’t think Rush ever claimed that SS was welfare. He does call it a ponzi scheme because the government stole and squandered the money of the elderly when it was supposed to go into an account. Now people currently working are paying for SS benefits of the elderly.

    • IstvanIN

      You only get Social Security if you had earnings and paid in. It is not welfare, or relief. I will assume that you are just woefully uniformed and have mistaken Social Security for SSI, the Supplemental Security Income program, which is a federal welfare program that just happens to be administered by the SSA.

  • negroes and meztizos are rats. They can be treated as nothing but. But we don’t want them scurrying from the cities. …… Because I sure as heck don’t want them following when I leave.

  • MikeofAges

    One very basic fact is that most of the states which receive more than they pay are states with small populations. All of the states west of those bordering on the Mississippi, exclusive of Texas, and east of the West Coast together have 45 congressional seats. California alone has 55. They may be net recipients because of the presence of large amount of federal land and the presence of federal strategic and infrastructure facilities, not because of other benefits received (though there are some, such as farm subsidies). Sorry, the blue state would not find their fiscal problems solved if these states seceded. As illusory as the “peace” dividend.

  • Guest55

    Apparently it never crossed Dana’s mind that humans require a food supply for survival. It stands to reason that federal funding per person will be highest in those rural regions that require longer roads and infrastructure to outlier farms, ranches, logging and mining operations. Additional federal funds are required for USDA inspectors and other various agencies related to agriculture, logging, mining. Food, lumber, energy are obviously critically important for all Americans. The columnist is disingenuous with the framing of the argument and fails to inform her readership of necessary reasons to explain the federal dollar deficit.

    • Gracchus123

      I believe “Dana” is a man. Or looks like one.

      • Gracchus123

        Not only is he a man, but he is a Yale graduate and a member of the Skull and Bones fraternity. Go figure.

  • IstvanIN

    If Mississippi were allowed to secede and send all it’s blacks to the Union I wonder how wealthy and peaceful Mississippi would be?

    • Net_Drifter

      It would be like a moderately successful mid-south or midwestern state. Much less poverty and crime, but still largely rural with a prosperous working class of whites. Working and middle class would be it’s majority more than the wealthy, which is fine by me.

      Small town and pleasant again.

    • Considering the international community would shun an all-white nation, it could not fair well economically. Is the trade off worth it? Maybe.

      • The Traveler

        I don’t think that is much of a concern. Europe is collapsing economically, and it will only get worse. Ten years from now, they will be in no position to harm us, especially if we ally ourselves with South East Asia – a region that cares little for liberal European politics.

      • GrandpaT

        The “international community” is held together by the United States. With a “Disunited States” the “international community” falls apart.

  • JohnEngelman

    Even when low income whites in the South do not use food stamps they seldom get health care at work, so they will benefit from the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. They would benefit even more from a single payer health care plan, like the one that exists in Canada.

    Low income whites in the South also do not benefit from tax cuts for the rich.

    In the antebellum South low income whites did not benefit from slavery. They could not afford slaves. They could not compete with slave labor.

    • UK Expat

      Regarding your first paragraph, the truth is that low income folk across the US, not just the South as you state, generally do not get work health care so they may or may not benefit from the act, depending on if they want to pay to participate or not, but the truth is that someone will have to pay for it and frankly it really is very expensive.

      This leads me to your assertion that a single payer plan would benefit poor folk more, to have similar healthcare to the private sector for less. This may or may not be so, someone has to pay for it and if this is not demanded of those who ‘have’ then the standard of care will be lower.

      I am from the UK having lived under the NHS and can absolutely claim that the standard of health care I receive in the US is an order of magnitude higher than that in the UK; this is not about the scientific level of healthcare or quality, but real time availability, and that is to say that the NHS operates at a triage level. In the UK, if you can afford it, or your employer offers it, you can participate in private health care (e.g. BUPA) which offers something similar to the US. The UK system is therefore a two tier affair depending on what you can afford or want to pay … taxes=lower tier, payment=lower plus higher tier. Want a hip replacement at 65 you pay for it (BUPA), at 35 you will get it though taxation (NHS). Got a woman problem in the UK, they will treat your symptoms until it becomes triage critical and treat it; got the same in the US, they will investigate until they find the cause, and treat it before it becomes critical.

      In my own mind I am divided in this single payer compared to the current system, as I think that healthcare should be a generous proposition in society. There is no doubt that the current system is ridiculously expensive and I believe that the way forward is to introduce true financial competition, which will result in: wards instead of suites (if your leg is hanging off by a thread, do you really care if you have a suite or curtained bed in a ward? True example this … my wife was nearly killed in her suite because nobody was monitoring her personally on morphine, she crashed, however if she had been on a ward with actual nurse oversight, someone or the nurse would have noticed her machine beeping and it might not have been so bad!), less duplication of expensive facilities, lower physician salaries (come on guys it is not rocket science), lower bureaucracy, streamlined insurance management and tort reform.

      Somehow a balance needs to be reached, what is an acceptable level of care and cost? If the act plays out, I might as well go to my employer and ask for the $16K they pay towards my health insurance and pay for the act insurance, but if single payer health insurance is adopted, will my employer give me the additional $16K which I consider a part of my compensation?

      This is a tough one for me, I see the altruistic potential of universal or at least affordable healthcare for all, but am a realist in the sense that the current cost of care cannot be extended to all without a significant level of triage.

      • JohnEngelman

        Harris Interactive

        ROCHESTER, N.Y. – August 12, 2009 – As members of Congress return to their states and districts to debate the merits of the Democrats’ proposals for health care reform, critics of the proposals may repeat the phrase used by some Republicans, newspaper editorials and bloggers that ‘the American health care system is the envy of the world.”

        If so, they should read the results of a recent Harris/Decima poll in Canada that found a 10-to-1 majority of Canadians believed their system was “superior” to the U.S. system. They might also note that a 70% majority of Canadians thought their system was “performing well”; and that a majority favored an expansion of public sector health care (i.e., “government-run” health care in the current debate) over private sector health care.

      • Pat

        I can’t compare our UK system with the US one, but I am glad that the cost of treatment is never a worry. Our family in the past have gone through the full range of medical needs – cancer treatments, heart by-passes, intensive care units, gall bladders, etc. not to mention pregnancies and never bothered at all about the cost of it. An Australian relative (British parents) was taken serious ill while visiting us in the 1980s with bleeding on the brain – he was in hospital for three months. He was not charged as he was an emergency.

        My problem with it now is that it is open to the entire (less well off!) world for any condition they have – all they have to do is turn up. Anyone working pays National Insurance, based on earnings. I have never heard a soul complain of this – till now. Illnesses that were eradicated in the west now need whole wards devoted to them. The system was not designed for massive influxes and it is now overloaded. Can’t see it getting any better until populations stabilise and when will that be ?

    • MikeofAges

      If you wish to establish a universal health system, there are alternatives to single payers. Notably, a tax based system of universal health insurance could be established. In a handful of sentences: You establish a payroll tax similar to social security. Employers who provide a health care benefit, or individuals who provide their own care, get a credit against the tax. The money raised, along with some general revenue, is used to buy ev eryone else insurance. Is that so difficult?

    • John Bonham

      Why not go to the huffpo and post with like minded liberal fools ?

    • Net_Drifter

      “In the antebellum South low income whites did not benefit from slavery. They could not afford slaves. They could not compete with slave labor.”

      That’s true, but the descendants of those same whites are still held responsible even though they were the victims too.

  • Harumphty_Dumpty

    Whites won’t be able to secede if there’s no whites left to secede.

    So when signing the secession petitions at the White House site, please sign this petition there also:

    • John Bonham

      I think the person that wrote the petition thinks Obama can walk on water and is in fact God .. How in the hell can Obama stop white genocide in other countries ? The whole thing was worded wrong ..No point in signing it unless it was re written just for the U.S.A

  • JohnEngelman

    I saw “Abraham Lincoln” yesterday. It is a fantastic movie that is sure to sweep the Oscars.

    • DId they include his comment, around 1858, where he said:

      “I want Nebraska for White famlies”

      Or, did they include the part where he says Whites should always rule over blacks? I guess this is why Obama used Lincoln’s Bible for his first swearing in. Ironic?

      Did they mention the part about DEPORTATION of the Africans?

      • JohnEngelman


        No. None of that.

        The Republican Party before and during the Civil War was composed of three constituencies. They agreed that slavery should not be extended to the territories, and that it should not be legalized in states where it was illegal.

        An important constituency was the group I will call “Lincoln Democrats.” These wanted to keep slavery out of the territories and their states because they wanted to keep blacks out of those areas. They also wanted to keep slavery legal where it already existed. If slavery was outlawed everywhere in the United States blacks would move north and west. They would compete economically with whites. Even back then it was probably recognized that blacks were more prone to become criminals.

        The second constituency was the business community, and particularly manufacturers. For these the main issue was the tariff. During the nineteenth century European factories could usually produce better goods than American factories, and at lower prices, even when the cost of shipping the goods across the Atlantic Ocean was factored in.

        Without tariffs many factories in the North would have gone out of business. Tariff protection was an issue that united the Lincoln Democrats and the manufactures. Many Lincoln Democrats worked in Northern factories. Their jobs were threatened by imports.

        The South produced the best cotton and tobacco in the world at the lowest prices. This was true whether the cotton and tobacco was grown by slaves or free Negroes. Southern cotton and tobacco producers did not need tariff protection. They wanted a central government that tried to achieve free trade internationally.

        Northern manufacturers wanted to free the slaves for selfish reasons. Emancipation would reduce the wealth of the Southern plantation owners, and with it their political power and their ability to fight tariffs. Also, if the slaves were freed, many Negroes would move north, apply for jobs in the factories, and enable the factory owners to reduce wages.

        The abolitionists were the third constituency in the Republican Party. They opposed slavery for moral reasons. These were not in the majority in the Republican Party, and certainly not in the North. The movie “Abraham Lincoln” makes it clear that even toward the end of the Civil War there was little enthusiasm in the North for emancipation of the slaves.

        • So, they didn’t show that Lincoln was correct in being a segregationist, separatist, racist and stated many times the White race was superior? Sad.

          Lincoln did nothing more than free the Africans to run about and destroy America.

          Many people have a hard time when I tell them the glorious “underground railroad” went to Canada (since the wonderful abolitionist didn’t want their lovely darkies to STAY in their neighborhoods but to keep on going to Canada).

          The truth can not be told.

          • JohnEngelman

            Lincoln did nothing more than free the Africans to run about and destroy America.

            – OBSERVER

            After Lincoln freed the slaves the United States went on to become the richest and strongest country in the world.

            The underground railroad went to Canada because the Dred Scott decision by the Supreme Court in 1857 meant that escaped slaves in the free states could still be returned to their masters.

            In the presidential campaign of 1860 Abraham Lincoln warned of what he called “a second Dred Scott decision.” This would be a decision by the Supreme Court finding laws against slavery in free states unconstitutional.

          • The Traveler

            ‘After Lincoln freed the slaves the United States went on to become the richest and strongest country in the world.’

            But there’s no correlation between the two as you imply. At the time of the second world war, whites were almost 90% of the U.S. population. That is why Anmerica became the richest and strongest country in the world – that and geography, natural resources.

          • JohnEngelman

            My comment was a rebuttal to this one by OBSERVOR, “Lincoln did nothing more than free the Africans to run about and destroy America.”

            Negroes cause problems, but they did not “destroy America” after Abraham Lincoln, and they still have not.

            The alternative to freeing the Negroes was to keep them in slavery. They could not be deported.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Wrong! They could have been forcibly relocated as easily as we did the southeastern Amerind tribes (with the exception of the relatively inaccessable Seminole), but to Africa and not Oklahoma.
            Don’t know much about US history, do you, John?

          • JohnEngelman

            There was no place for the freed slaves to go. Central America did not want them. We tried to send them to Liberia, but we could not send enough of them.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Wrong again! Lincoln was assassinated before the plan could be fully implemented.
            “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

    • Gracchus123

      Did the movie mention the arrest of the Maryland legislature by Lincoln? Did it also mention the arrest of hundreds of newspaper reporters by Lincoln?

      • JohnEngelman


      • Michael_C_Scott

        Or Lincoln’s suspension of Habeas Corpus?

        Or the anti-conscription riots in the Union?

        • The Traveler

          Or that incident where his soldiers lynched 60 starving American Indians? The history channel once ran a program that mentioned that incident: 80 acres of hell. I highly recommend it.

  • Der Typ

    An interesting site I found…

    Also their list of states “including relatively poor
    states such as Alaska, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and
    Mississippi” seems somehow cherry picked to showcase places that have have areas of white poverty, lower black populations outside of Mississippi, and not much military outside of Kentucky. It seems that it was purposely designed to deflect Mr. Wolff’s argument. Lastly isn’t Alaska sitting on a lot of oil? Did I just dream that?

    • Michael_C_Scott

      Alaskan oil revenues result in royalties being paid to state residents.

  • The author fails to qualify or quantify his assertion that certain states take in more federal dollars than they send to Washington.

    Is he referring to federal dollars flowing into government entities including states, counties, municipalities, school corporations, law enforcement agencies, etc? Is he including welfare to individuals? Is he including TARP money for businesses? Is he including Social Security entitlements in which individuals are reimbursed earlier contributions? Is he including grants to non-profits (such as Planned Parenthood) that are dispersed by the parent organization to various state affiliates? Is he including federal dollars that indirectly impact states, such as military bases?

    Such information would be helpful.

  • carson city nevada

    Its not just the south for the white southern haters since you can include the entire central mid American states and many in the west including AZ, MT, UT, ID, ND ,SD, KN, NB plus AK and 3/4 of Florida and Virginia Florida.

    Red States smell what this evil socialist racist white hating homosexual enabler alleged sodomite piece of trash is cooking up with his legalization of 50 million illegals and a mystery bellowing loudmouth gloating muslim who is right at home anywhere in SE Asia or Africa determined to reduce the white Xian European American race to a minority and retain power indefinitely with help all the ones he is giving gifts too courtesy of the taxpayers plus China and printing presses he runs 24/7/365 making money.

    If and when the Red States seceded all others in Blue States with half a brain would be given the chance to switch to the new Red State Nation and vice versa. There will be no massive attack linvasion like in the days of Marxist Lincoln as it would be legal and logical.

    Take your pick. Do you want a capitalist free market heterosexual Red State Nation with low taxations small government and minimal debt with Romney as president or do you want the alternative 16 trillion red ink socialist 3rd world hellhole with a tyrant robber who has the keys to the bank spending like a crazed lunatic with no conception of fiscal responsibility while wanting to end the white race and white man religion to superimpose his islamic jihadist communist USSR style while inundating his blue nation with 50-100 illegals who will be the majority not the white race. .

    And who says this skinny gangling beanpole pinhead Obama has the omnipotent powers to allow a new Red State Nation anyway? Just Do It. Try to imagine an Amerika where whites will in the minority living in 3rd world wretched squalor similar to anywhere in Africa or the Carribean where ex-African slaves won control by murdering all the whites and turn a paradise into a hellhole.

    Never forget that it is a proven fact that blacks cannot lead themselves much less lead whites even a half breed with low IQ but sells snake oil 24/7 especially in a white European American western nation he is trying to hijack with his non-white race illegal tools..

    For once whites need to think ahead and not the immediate future as bleak as it is. Nip it in the bud. Secede now as with each passing day the selected illegal in the WH becomes more and more empowered and emboldened. Split it up for the long range future and for the future of the white and your children and grandchildren etc etc. Take the bull by the horns and use the 25 states of the last election as a guide.

    Socialist liberals should be extremely happy along with conservative capitalists who already have an immediate president named Romney and those who want to switch to the other nation can do so. The USSR broke and up and is a better nation a million times over. Time for the USA to split for the rights of independence freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Its a terrible marriage with irreconcilable differences than cant be resolved. Divorce this ungodly mess and seize the keys to the Red States bank from the muslim socialist who obviously got his training straight out of the 1849 published Communist Manifesto.


      Everything else is not important.

    • JohnEngelman

      President Obama was reelected by a fair election. Get used to it. Get used to more immigrants too. The leaders of the Republican Party will let them in in order to reduce wages for those who already have the right to live here.

  • western life or western death

    Obams 3rd term ( and 4th and 5th and 6th etc) in formation already with the immigration legalizing.

    Splitting into a new Red State nation is not an option but an nessesity for survivals

  • Tucker

    Okay, I have a perfect way to settle this issue.

    If the millions of Mestizo invaders (and all other third worlders) want to prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that they are not leeches and parasites who are swarming across our border and then jumping on to the social entitlement gravy train, let’s make them an offer.

    Let’s say okay, how about letting us get your signature, fingerprints and a photograph and maybe a DNA cotton swab out of the cheek of your mouth and then we’ll put this information into a national database that will be checked before any welfare, AFDC, Obamacare or any other social entitlement is granted and if your signature, photo, prints and/or DNA turn up, then you’re denied those benefits – because, after all, you and your Hispanic leaders and Uncle Bobby Jindel did say that you weren’t invading our nation for those reasons, right?

    Certainly, if these non-White invaders are honest – they wouldn’t mind going along with this simple procedure, right?

  • Chicago1

    Henry Wolff should check his stats and leave the racism out to make his point better

    • We need MORE racism, not less.

      Racism is the future. As the polyglot of mish-mash races begin to fight, race will be the only factor on where you can live.

      Race, and thus Racism is the future.

    • @2785435e49e655e762f4d5b730d5d852:disqus We reject your slander and seek neither your permission nor your agreement to obtain our right to self-determination.

  • Babs

    OH my goodness! You have just explained how we could get rid of non Whites in America! What a brilliant idea! I love it!

  • Wasn’t it the federal government that forced integration upon the Southern states? Even if the South has been taking more federal money than it has paid back, the children it lost due to integration were worth much more.

  • jim_dandy_is_a_big_sundae

    Not worried about the response. If those people ever wanted to move, they would first have to find a way to afford it. Which they can’t. And they are now used to being in America so I doubt they would leave all of their stuff behind to start again in one of the blue states. It also occurs to me that the southern black population is one of the south’s own making. So you really should deal with them in some way. Finally, when the secession is complete, the blue states will have the army, navy, air force, coast guard and the marines. You will need your “excess population” to man the armed forces which you will now have to create. And they will get paid for that. So I’m not worried that people will make a dash for the blue states. Unless they’re the white folks who just realized how much their taxes are going to go up.

    • The Traveler

      “It also occurs to me that the southern black population is one of the
      south’s own making. So you really should deal with them in some way.”

      Reverse psychology, huh? Keep them because you don’t want them. Well, the South does have a lot of drilling going on in the gulf. That money could easily be used to offer financial incentives. Furthermore, I’m sure the more self-righteous people up North would help by rolling out the red carpet.

      “Finally, when the secession is complete, the blue states will have the
      army, navy, air force, coast guard and the marines. You will need your
      “excess population” to man the armed forces which you will now have to

      None of that’s true. The South has PLENTY of military hardware and bases – enough to start over. Furthermore, we won’t be building an empire, so there is no reason to spend as much on it. We will be fine.

      “So I’m not worried that people will make a dash for the blue states.”

      Wishful thinking. They will…and we will help them.

    • As if the Blue states would get to keep the whole military… No, I don’t think that is going to fly.

  • jack ryan

    We need to play hard ball with these lying (rich) White Libs in NorthEastern Blue States. They like Obama, BRA, mass 3rd world immigration, Muslim 9-11-01 multi cultural enrichment so much – then…..

    Send it to them!

    We need a new “freedom riders” program to pardon all Black convicts on Death Row in the South and then free them, under the stipulation that they most move to Vermont and never set foot in a Red State again. Patriot multi millionaires in Red States need to start buying up property lin LIb Dem areas of North East, fix up cheap temp housing then flood their areas with Section 8, HIV + 3rd world people of color.

    You *#($# like Obama, open borders immigration, hate traditional White Americans in Red States, fine – now your going to experience the joys of DIVERSITY yourself in your neighborhoods, schools, homes.

    • Very true, it is time to stop being nice and abiding by their foibles. Northeastern and Mid-Atlantic Red-Whites need to lead this charge: there are more of us than one may think, and we are much more likely to be in the under-30 demographic. We should challenge them to pursue their ideology whilst we cruise west in a convoy of pickups.

  • Self-determination will only be obtained by those willing to stand as one voice, identity, and culture, to make the hard choices necessary to achieve one’s providence.

  • aandrews

    Excellent riposte!

  • LHathaway

    Alabama, Louisiana? Right, all these states are ‘takers’, because they are inhabited by low-life’s of the type that vote for Romney. . . .

  • Southern independence would be wonderful. I’m ready. The USA is a failure.