Suicide Is Epidemic for American Indian Youth: What More Can Be Done?

Stephanie Woodard, NBC News, October 10, 2012

A youth-suicide epidemic is sweeping Indian country, with Native American teens and young adults killing themselves at more than triple the rate of other young Americans, according to federal government figures.

In pockets of the United States, suicide among Native American youth is 9 to 19 times as frequent as among other youths, and rising. From Arizona to Alaska, tribes are declaring states of emergency and setting up crisis-intervention teams.

“It feels like wartime,” said Diane Garreau, a child-welfare official on the Cheyenne River Sioux Reservation, in South Dakota. “I’ll see one of our youngsters one day, then find out a couple of days later she’s gone. Our children are self-destructing.”

So dire is the alarm that of 23 grants the U.S. federal government awarded nationally to prevent youth suicides in September, 10 went to Native American tribes or organizations, with most of them receiving nearly $500,000 per year for three years.

A former Democratic senator from North Dakota, Byron Dorgan, who chaired the U.S. Senate Committee on Indian Affairs for 18 years, called those efforts good but insufficient. Dorgan is founder of the Center for Native American Youth, which promotes Indian child health and emphasizes suicide prevention. He describes the Indian Health Service, which serves the nation’s 566 tribes, as chronically underfunded.

“We need more mental-health services to save the lives of our youngest First Americans,” Dorgan said. “Tribes and nonprofits may get two- or three-year grants to address an issue that cannot possibly be resolved in that amount of time. We fund programs, then let them fall off a cliff.

“The perception may be that tribes have a lot of gaming funds, but that is simply not true for more than a few,” Dorgan said.

{snip}

The suicide risk factors for Native youth are well known and widely reported. In their homes and communities, many Native youngsters face extreme poverty, hunger, alcoholism, substance abuse and family violence. Diabetes rates are sky high, and untreated mental illnesses such as depression are common. Unemployment tops 80 percent on some reservations, so there are few jobs—even part-time or after-school ones. Bullying and peer pressure pile on more trauma during the vulnerable teen years.

Native youngsters are particularly affected by community-wide grief stemming from the loss of land, language and more, researchers reported in 2011. As many as 20 percent of adolescents said they thought daily about certain sorrows—even more frequently than adults in some cases, the researchers found.

“Our kids hurt so much, they have to shut down the pain,” said Garreau, who is Lakota. “Many have decided they won’t live that long anyway, which in their minds excuses self-destructive behavior, like drinking—or suicide.”

{snip}

“It crosses your mind,” said Jake Martus, whose Yupik/Eskimo/Athabaskan father was born in a tiny, remote village on the Yukon River. “I’ve never acted on suicidal thoughts, but they’ve been there my entire life. It’s sad, it’s shocking, but in our communities it’s also somehow normal.”

Martus, who is 26 and a patient advocate for the Alaska Native Epidemiology Center, said suicide is so frequent among his people, he has to ask, “Is it in our blood?” Martus’ father killed himself in jail after being arrested for drunk driving. Behind his dad’s alcoholism were overwhelming memories of sexual abuse by his village’s Catholic priest, Martus said. Similar stories echo throughout Indian country, where lawsuits against the Catholic Church have detailed sexual, physical, and emotional abuse by clerics in parishes or on staff at the notoriously violent boarding schools that Native children were forced to attend until the 1970s.

{snip}

Incredible as it may sound to adults, adolescents may not fully understand that shooting or hanging themselves can have permanent results, said social worker Patricia Serna, who helped develop a nationally recognized suicide-prevention program for a New Mexico tribe. “Youth who survived suicide attempts would tell us they just wanted a break from their problems, a little time off.” She explains that important decision-making parts of the brain are not fully developed in adolescents—of all population groups, not just Native youngsters. As a result, they may not foresee the consequences of their actions.

{snip}

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  • MekongDelta69

    …adolescents may not fully understand that shooting or hanging themselves can have permanent results, said social worker Patricia Serna…
    What anybody under 30 would say is: “Uhh – duhhhhhhhhhh”
    *facepalm

    What Mzzz. social worker SHOULD HAVE SAID:

    …[NON-WHITE] adolescents may not fully understand that shooting or hanging themselves can have permanent results, said social worker Patricia Serna…

    • Oil Can Harry

      What? Hangin’ an’ shootin’ yo’self can permanently affect yo’ life? Shut yo’ mouf!

      Dayum, this science stuff be rayciss!

  • Triarius

    Suicides are up for everyone in the U.S., most notably whites. Suicides in the military passed up KIA years ago (2007?) And suicide rates just passed up fatalities by car accidents in the U.S., which is substantial. In fact, I’ve had two friends commit suicide in the last 15 months, a 24 year old and a 26 year old.

    But of course the headline reads “bad things happen to everyone, minorities hit hadest”.

    Hey “Native” Mongolians, lay off the fire water and your odds of survival will increase.

    • Bon, From the Land of Babble

      Correct:

      The Daily Mail reports more Americans now die from suicide than from car accidents:

      More Americans now commit suicide than are killed in car crashes as miserable economy takes its toll

       “Deaths from suicide up 15pc with fears more deaths go unaccounted”

      Suicide is the cause of more deaths than car crashes, according to an alarming new study. The number of people who commit suicide in the U.S. has drastically increased while deaths from car accidents have dropped, making suicide the leading cause of injury death. Suicides via falls or poisoning have risen significantly and experts fear that there could be many more unaccounted for, particularly in cases of overdose.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207089/56-million-suicide-prevention-programme-launched-study-reveals-Americans-lives-die-car-crashes.html

      No mention of race in the article except to say that blacks and Hispanics have “fewer car crashes and suicides” than Whites.

      Bon

      • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

        There’s been a few who killed all their animals and then themselves.  That’s what I’ll be doing when the time is right.

        • Bon, From the Land of Babble

          Stephanie: Sorry for the late reply. Your comment distressed me.

          If it EVER comes to that for you, contact me and I will come and pick you up and your animals too, I will drive to Alabama or wherever you live — I mean it.

          I have 2 dogs and 1 cat but the property is large and fenced in so there is enough room for dogs (people too!!!). Cats OK too, my cat is elderly and a non-fighter. If you have larger animals like horses, there is a stable not too far from here.

          I hope it doesn’t come to that for you!! California is not great but OK where I live.

          Bon

      • The Worlds Scapegoat

         “Bon wrote – The Daily Mail reports more Americans now die from suicide than from car accidents:

        More Americans now commit suicide than are killed in car crashes as miserable economy takes its toll”

        That reminds me of Germany during the Weimar Republic when their country was being run people other than Germans. Sounds a lot like the U.S. today.

        • Brendan

          84% of suicides are whites. Only about 5.5% are black and 7% are Hispanic.

    • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

      I too know lots of people whom have committed suicide and so for me, it speaks LOUDLY, no, that’s not right; it SCREAMS Pain and for me, I don’t like it and so much so, I don’t like to see the asians/muslims, the  very people I like the least, I don’t want to see them do it neither.  I want everyone to be killed of course but I don’t want anyone to commit suicide.

  • I wonder if these youth perceive that they do not have a future, which is why they kill themselves? Many of them have no access to a good education which determines the future of a person.

    • The__Bobster

      I didn’t have “access” either but I didn’t kill myself. I found a way to gain access.

      • But you probably had the skills to make it in this world. These kids don’t. They live in reservations that resemble  third world conditions without indoor plumbing or electricity. They have access to a marginal education at best. Youth like them see things around them that they cannot access and this leads to frustration and after a while suicide because things do not improve.

        • Invictus_1

           There are a lot of problems for the Amerinds, but a couple I have personally noticed (dated a few in my younger days), is that they (I am making an educated guess) often have some defects caused by being born to parents who drank or were frank alcoholics themselves.  The next thing is that since the advent of satellite tv, they sit in front of the box and east junk all day long.

          What many people don’t realize is that the point of the primitive tribes in North America was to first survive, but then live easy whenever possible.  In her book, “Boots and Saddles,” Libby Custer wrote that the plains Indian males were undeveloped, they had poor upper body development because the women did all the work.  The other thing that close historical study shows is that the many treaties struck in the 19th century included supplies of food and other goods.  The 1862 Minnesota Uprising that began the last phase of the Indian Wars in fact began because Congress was deadlocked over funding due to the demands of the ongoing war of succession.  The Indians waited and waited and even decided not to go out on a hunt, until some young men decided that raiding a store was best.  Once they got into that one and drank up the  liquor, the violence spread and became more atrocious.

          Buying off Indians with goods resulted in reinforcing their “cultural” tendency towards laziness, which has all but destroyed them.  This may have been the strategy all along, but I doubt it.  What this does illustrate well  is that supporting people the wrong way leads to their destruction as well as harming those providing the support.  It may be human nature, but there are ways to help others without making them dependent on the help; “teach a man to fish,” etc., but you can’t help people who are already ruined.

    • Puggg

      I hardly think a person rationalizes suicide for a “lack of access to education.” 

      • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

        My Sister Graduated at not only Tops but Voted most likely to Succeed and yet?

  • Oil Can Harry

    When you live your entire life as a welfare bum,  spending your days as a wasted couch potato staring at the boob tube, is it any wonder you lose your will to live?

    God forbid these sainted “people of color” should be forced off the dole and have to work for a living! If they had jobs their suicide rates would plummet.  

    • True. But what type of job can a young person get on a rural reservation? If the reservation has gambling, they have access to those jobs. If they don’t, they do not have the money to move off the reservation and get a job.

      • Maresy_Doats

         The military..?

        • MY first reaction, as well, Maresy. At the least, they could pick up a trade in the armed forces.

      • Oil Can Harry

        Crystal, if illegal aliens (many with Amerindian blood in their veins) can travel thousands of miles to the US looking for work then these people can get on a bus and commute to a job outside their reservations.

        I mean, they’re not that helpless.

        • Invictus_1

           Or maybe build a meat packing plant near them instead of building one is a rural white community and then importing Somalis to work in them (and pillage the town).

    • Hedwig1

      Exactly! And you notice that they “pin the tail on the honkey” with that “community-wide grief stemming from the loss of land, language and more” statement –  nothing is ever THEIR fault! These people suck MILLIONS from the WHITE taxpayers and all we get in return are some damn moccasins, beads and demands for more of our money! I personally don’t give a rats behind about them, I make it a point to only worry about and help “my people”!   

      • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

        Welfare is, in its most purest form, Taxation without Representation.

    • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

      They can make jobs all of their own much like any other race and why they don’t, I’ll never know but, you can understand the ‘Loss of Country and Culture’ part can’t you?

  • jedsrael

    So, Indian adolescents will avoid the horrors of the BRA Diversity Future by trying to wipe out the Red race through direct suicide, while our teens are wiping out the White race by speeding up the horrors of the BRA Diversity Future through race mixing and mongrelization.

    We admire the Indians.

  • Unlike many posters, I find this topic tragic.

    American Indians are a fragile species. They hadn’t succeeded to acculturate. Unlike Blacks- who are too dumb & irresponsible to kill themselves- American Indians are similar to Siberian peoples, who also have a high suicide rate.

    They want to retain their culture (language, identity), but can’t, outside pressures are too strong. Blacks don’t have an identity to retain, so no significant suicidal tendencies.

    Life in reservation is also hopeless, for the most part. Indians kill themselves because they have lost any hope. Be as it may- US govt had not financially & educationally helped them not even close as it did with Blacks & Hispanics.

    • Tom_in_Miami

      I have to agree with you on this one, Bardon.  Life on the reservation is hopeless and so many of the youth simply don’t know in their hearts that they can leave and succeed.  That so many Indians kill themselves is sad beyond anything I can describe.  But, what can we whites do to help them?  Money is not the answer and I don’t believe an army of social workers can change the situation.

      •  If there is any good news, American Indians have the highest intermarriage rate with Whites & some will be assimilated, and I hope Whites who are 1/16 or 1/32 Indians will somehow find the way to help them, or to alleviate their plight.

        Just, if govt had given them even tiny fraction of money- combined with realistic business programs- they spend on Blacks & Hispanics, I surmise that suicide rate would have been halved at least.

        • BannerRWB

          I would think that intermarraige with any other racial group is akin to genocide.  As for the government giving them anything, I would suggest they be given enough of a land mass to maintain there own society, separate from all other ethnic groups, and then be given nothing else, save for a strong border fence/wall. In such an environment, they would not need hand outs; they would live and die on their own. For those groups of Indians that we (Whites, with the assistance of the Black Buffalo Soldiers) didn’t genocide to begin with, we took away their means of maintaining any true pride in self determination. Being confined to reservations may maintain some racial consistency, but being kept as something akin a a pet group of humans, may well be a cause of a high suicide rate.

          • When you talk about “genocide”, I guess you refer to them. It’s a tough question. IMO, they will be swallowed by Whites, and I think it’s good for them- as it is good for native peoples in Siberia to be completely assimilated by Russians.

            Perhaps it would be good if they could keep their identity, but history has shown that nomadic hunter-gatherer cultures just cannot adapt to modern civilization. I’d rather see their progeny as happy Whites than dead American Indians.

          • Invictus_1

             I only wish I could live on thousands of acres of land and fish and hunt to my hearts content, live far from cities and suburbs, see the stars at night, observe the beauty of nature every day.  As it is, I must check myself everyday before I venture out into the world, decide if I want to carry today, make sure all my insurances are paid up, my bills paid, my taxes up to date, missed no deadlines for renewals, etc., etc., etc.   Just as youth is wasted on the young, the Amerinds have largely failed to realize just how good they have it to be so isolated.  In the end, genetic influence in character expression is likely at the bottom of the equation.

    • Blacks do not kill themselves. They kill each other for no reason other than for a pair of sneakers, a Starter jacket, etc.

      • Crystal, maybe you should qualify your opening statement, into something like, “Generally, most blacks do not kill themselves”…

        Otherwise, how do you account for Don Cornelius, ex-football players Dave Duerson, Ray Easterling, and ex-baseball player Donnie Moore, all of whom shot themselves?

        Suicide rates among Bantus are probably higher than we believe. That’s because suicide in Bantu communities is a “hush-hush” subject; much like mental illness among Bantus is often thought of as “demonic possession”. 

        It’s much easier for the family of Jamarcus Washington to accept his being shot and killed by Shivtarious Williams or even a white police officer; than to believe he put a pistol against his head, and pulled the trigger.

        • This is an interesting observation. Maybe there are some suicide stats on the Web ? 

    • David Owens

      This situation goes beyond tragic. It is almost like a horror film produced in Japan in which dozens or hundreds of young people gathered together to commit mass suicides by jumping off buildings or in front of trains. To see the young of any race losing hope and the will to live on such a scale chills my blood.

    • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

      You left out the most important part:  “they lost any (ALL) hope” AND the Will to Live.

      Americans should know how they feel and firsthand too for “We” are going through the same thing only through different means (immigration).

    • Barrack Osama

      It should be a horrible sight for anyone to behold, especially future races not to be named who may find themselves on reservations eventually.

      • Invictus_1

         Give us a white reservation and watch everywhere else sink into darkness and chaos!

    • Invictus_1

       I agree with you on this one.  I think that perhaps the worst thing is that they have satellite tv now and they are “snake fascinated” by it while at the same time find out they are left out in a much larger world.  Isolation has its benefits; it is the opposite of globalization and it is affecting white children as well.  All cultures are forced to harden up to survive.  Failure to do that is death.

  • Rob

    American Indians are the opposite of blacks. Blacks have the lowest suicide rate because they can blame all of their shortcomings and problems,including whenenver their shoelaces come untied, on Whitey, while American Indians dont.(Peejay)

  • Michael C. Scott

    I always got on well with the Amerinds in federal prison.  It was a Navajo (murder) who brought me back from the depths of despair and an Apache (murder and mutiny) who was one of my best friends after that.  My file says I taught a guy to read.  It isn’t so; I merely brought him from a “Tip & Mitten” reading level to “Aviation Week & Space Technology”.

    I told my bosses back in the days when money was easy that I would someday teach on the reservation.  I suppose I did.  Nobody I tutored in federal prison failed the GED test.

    The suicide of any young person is almost always a tragedy.  One of my friends in Australia  was involved in a conversation that turned to “Let’s put down the Yanks.”  He said his best friend was a Yank: Celtic and American Indian.  His companions asked “What’s that, extremely aggressive?”  They had me pegged thirdhand, and my friend is Scottish, Russian and Aboriginal Australian.  He has light skin, red hair and freckles.  I have brown hair, grey eyes and am afrraid only of heights and artillery.   

    Throwing money at problems has never helped, and northern Amerinds are not inherently bad people the way I believe Africans are.  Feeling lost among an alien people need not be a devastating experience.  When I was loaned to Japanese companies for work, I met my wife.

    Don’t hang or shoot yourself. 

         

    • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

      Yes, we all know you’re an asian lover and I’m bettin’ Ms. Crystal Evans is your Wife.

      This is a place us White Folk can come to and ‘re-fuel’ so to speak but not anymore so it seems.  Please tell me Sir, would you allow a group of White People to just be left alone or would you impose yourself and your non-white family on them? I have no problem with you being married to an asian but I do have a problem should you want or expect your fellow White Peoples to accept it.YOU BELONG to WHITE PEOPLE and your ASIAN Wife BELONGS to ASIANS.

      • Michael C. Scott

        No, I am a Japanese-lover.  I regard Philippinos as a breed of Oriental Mexicans, and my opinions of Asians grow considerably less pleasant the father south one gets.

        When I was a chemist in the microelectronics industry, I used to work with Japanese, ate dinner in their homes, and used to take them shooting.  Of everyone I taught to shoot, the Japanese were the easiest to teach safe gun-handling, and the easiest to teach to shoot well.  With an all-volunteer military and the sense of personal responsibility that is a major part of their national psyche, I suspect fighting against today’s Japanese SDF (army) would be quite a bit less fun than fighting North Koreans.

        When I was loaned to a Japanese chemical company to solve a process problem, my co-workers and the locals were so nice that I was quite depressed on my return to Colorado Springs.  My only complaint about that trip was that it was summer, and my suit is wool and charcoal grey.  Happily, I was quickly issued a cotton company uniform.  

        When I returned home from federal prison in Texas in 2003, white women were not exactly beating my door down.  In fact, I slept with a nice blond gal with curly hair who stopped seeing me when I admitted I had been to prison.  I don’t have any tattoos or STDs, but I did have a probation officer at the time.  Sayaka looked me up a few weeks later.  We met in Kyoto after she got separated from a class trip and her hat blew into the street when a gust of wind caught it.

        Since I am 3/16 Amerind (Cherokee and Tuskarora), I do not regard what I have done as damaging to white America.  Had that white girlfriend and I married and produced a daughter, you would probably be annoyed at me for permanently contaminating her family’s bloodline.  Which way do you want it?  Should I walk back to Siberia?

        I find it interesting that you have appointed yourself as a sort of guardian over who can write here, why they can write, and about what they should write.  Jared Taylor spent quite a few years living in Japan.  Did he have any Japanese girlfriends?  I don’t know; perhaps you should ask him yourself.

        I think the freight train that used to be the United States of America is running over a cliff, and you seem worried that the whistle doesn’t work.

           

        • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

          That White Lady probably broke up with you due to the way you treated her or some character flaw of yours she didn’t like like your love for asians for example.

          I didn’t appoint myself to anything.  You “white” people claim to care about The White Peoples yet your actions show everything but.  You’re married to an asian and rather than being with your asians, you come here trying to get White People to accept your race trading ways instead.

          Mr. Taylor is married to a White Lady.

          • Michael C. Scott

            I didn’t see you there at the time she broke up with me.

            As for “race-trading”, what exactly is that?  I’ll give you five blacks for three browns or one white?  I didn’t know there was such an exchange underway.

            One of us appears to be only marginally literate.  I hope you can shoot better than you write, because you seem to want to create enemies instead of allies.  Remember though, that nothing is as simple as it seems.  Battle isn’t really about shooting; it’s usually more about humping a heavy ruck in freezing rain when one’s feet are sore.

            You are welcome to it, but as I’ve asked before, which side would you like me on?

          • Easy, easy, you’re talking to a lady ….

          • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

            I’m not interested in making allies with asians and I don’t want you on my side.  It’s pretty clear to me, given how you have non-white children and a non-white wife, that you don’t side with White People anyway.

            That and how you’re acting as though I’m just completely wrong because I don’t like race mixing.  We’re only 7% of the Population so I don’t think White People should be making it worse by having non-white children instead of having beautiful white babies.  And then when they do, they act like you; all offended because a White Person dares to object.

            I think it’s you Sir, you should be asking yourself which side you’re on.

          • Michael C. Scott

            According to you, I already decided, didn’t I?

            Sayaka is from a famous navy family, and her great-grandfather was a WW-2 hero, though for the other side. 

            I’m not offended.  You are completely entitled to your own opinions and decisions in life.  Nothing you can say to me will hurt me.  When you said I belong to whites and she belongs to Asians, you implied a concept of ownership with which I utterly disagree.  I am my own person and I do not “belong” to anyone except myself and my daughter.  Not even my mother or my wife have any claim of ownership.

            You have deliberately avoided addressing the question as to whom I should have married, as a partly nonwhite “mongrel” myself.  Since that cat got out of the bag in 1492, it is a bit too late for you to decide you’re “offended”. 

            I asked you whether you expect me to walk back to Siberia, and you still have not answered that question.  You get to walk 50 yards ahead of us when we do.

            If you declare me your enemy, I am afraid only of artillery and heights, but I believe in making friends out of enemies of my own species.   

               

        •  Well, I guess your descendants will be White, so not much fuss about that. Just- I cannot blame the WW who you slept with. It’s perfectly natural for females to avoid ex-cons. And I think you know that, too.

          • Michael C. Scott

            Yes, it is perfectly natural, but also completely humiliating.  Ariadne has epicanthic eyefolds, but has my brown hair and grey irises.  Sayaka and I joke about wondering who her mother was. 

            Nothing about what was done to me has been fair since I was six, and it still bothers me, but the buck stops here.  Yes, I do have to suck it all down until we get our revolution.

            Interest always accrues on the original debt.

          • Michael C. Scott

            The only Lady here was Margaret.  The others are just women.

          • Invictus_1

             Agreed.  All long time Amren posters must miss her.

  • jj astor

    The late great Phil Rushton documented the higher suicide rate amongst Oriental Mongoloids, maybe this can also be extend to Amerindian Mongoloids.
    Of course blacks are the total opposite; most think they’re god’s gift to the world and wouldn’t think of killing themselves.

  • The subhead was a direct quote from the article.

  • Isaiah14

    One problem. The American Indians are not native American to North, Central, and South America. White Europeans are. It is a known fact that White Europeans were first on this continent or on the American continents. We have Kenawick man and the Solutrians. These Indians probably found out about this, and that is why they committing suicide at an alarming rate.

    • David Owens

      This response is deplorable. No one ever committed suicide over an obscure historical fact. I will risk the censure of the moderators and say that this kind of lunatic fringe thinking is a liability to the white advocacy movement.

      • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

        He was making a joke.  Ill timed, yes, but still, just a joke.

        And, there is no “liability”.  We’re too far gone to have any “liability”.

        Our White Mentally Ill are demonized on national television BEFORE any Facts are even in for Christ’s Sake!  And please notice, Mental Institutions were closed down right and left back in the day and people have the nerve to dare speak ill of them and their so-called “evil” deeds.

        Don’t turn the Ill out on the Street at the fist sign of stabilization and FORCE them to take their meds; closely monitor, and adjust accordingly and you won’t have any problems for the most part. (you can’t fix everyone)

        • Invictus_1

           Did you know that it was Ronald Reagan who as Governor of California shut down the mental health system there, providing a national model (excuse) to do the same elsewhere?  We suddenly had them everywhere getting into trouble, committing sex crimes and other types, and only a growing prison system to deal with them.  In other words, it was a political maneuver and a costly one, in every way.

          • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

            I do know that and I’ve known it for a long time.  I have a passion for the sick and it angers me, angers me that people have the nerve to put the sick on the same level as criminals.

            And, these same people would have that same nerve to all of sudden, expect their sick to be treated as sick should they do something ‘prison worthy’.

            Sorry for the rant but I don’t understand how people can act as though someone with mental problems is the same as someone who does not.

  • Skincognito

    No disrespect to our red-faced brothers, but I’m more concerned with Norwegian suicide rates, or suicidal Great Russian birth-rates, for that matter. Stay focused people.

    • thieudemir

      1 million suicides in Russia since the fall of Soviet Union but Russian birthrate up the last year or two-Slavic population too.

  • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

    “community-wide grief stemming from the loss of land, language and more” ~ This kills me.

    I know exactly how they feel and I know how my Mother-in-Law and her Family felt too.  The picture I inserted is what my Mother-in-Law and Family lost and all for nothing but War and the horse (the one on the ground) is in the War Museum of Russia.

    As for the children, I sure hope they get the Best Help possible.

  • Zac

    I was born & raised on a native American Indian rez & am 1/4 native myself (rest is mix of Irish/German).

    The reason many of these suicides happen is because many of these tribes outright refused to assimilate to white American culture while they had the chance after WW2.
    This lead to them facing the horrible economic times that they have for the last 70 years.

    Now I’m not saying that they should have outright given up their culture, I’m saying they should have learned how to work with/along side white people like other tribes (including most of mine) did instead of isolating themselves.

    • Invictus_1

       It’s a tough call, I’ll grant, but mixing with whites leads to mixing and eventual permanent disappearance, just as whites mixing with larger racial groups will do to us.  The only way to preserve any culture and people is through isolation.  Perhaps it should not be absolute (which is impossible anyway) but things like shutting down the satellite tv access would help a great deal, I think.  Do you agree? What do you think of encouraging the return (or insertion) of the notion of the Noble Redman, not through historic claims and denials, but life and action in the present?

      When I have watched documentaries about John Ford films, the Westerns, one thing I noticed is how much the local Indians liked working for him in making films and how much it helped the tribes financially.  The time of Westerns are over seemingly, but most of these films were made post war.  Do you have any thoughts on that?

  • SJ

    I really feel for the American Indian youth on this one. Most reservations are in remote corners of the SW, miles from any major city. The isolation, the alcoholism, the generational poverty, loss of their group identity, their language, what they feel is their homeland. It is very similar to what depresses me being a young white male in America. 

    Also, I really don’t think the comments are necessary demeaning them for not being “First” Americans. We white people are known for our empathy and compassion. I think there is some to be given on this issue. 

  • Fakeemail

    Who cares?  Seriously, WHO CARES?  Am I supposed to care about these Amerinjun youfs?  Do they care about me?   Will they help me in my time of need?  I do not even really care about strangers of my own race who off themselves, all though perhaps I may feel a momentary pang.

    Here’s reality:  no one cares about anyone.   Human beings are purely tribal, selfish, and sexually based creatures.   At best, you care about your family and a few real friends if you have them.  Human bonds and society are precarious things.  All the more reason that a successful and peaceful society must be non-diverse.  Where healthy families can be built and some modicum of small neighborhoods and communities form.  That’s where real communal and larger national identity comes from.

    That’s why I despise and distrust when politicians talk about how we must “all care for one another.”     What does that mean in a country of a 300 million and a world of 7 billion where everyone has their stupid opinions and unreasonable demands?   Better grab your wallet to shell out some gimme-dats to people you hate and who hate you.  How about we “care about each other” by recognizing the truth.  Starting with the truth about race, gender, and how to take care of yourself.

    • I care.

    • Invictus_1

       I agree that this is the American result.  We are individuals who have cultivated a culture of opportunity for opportunists.  We are so extreme in it that even Churches have developed that claim it is Christian oriented to get rich by nearly any means.  Yet, when I lived in Europe, I found that small countries and cultures were fine for example, with their welfare system because as one friend put it, “We are like one big family here, no one minds paying more for this (social medicine).  In America, we are the land of “me first.”  I am not saying that a kind of “me first” doesn’t exist anywhere else, it does, and often in a more immediate way, just as greed exists too.  But when it comes to the things that can unite a similar people, we are sorely lacking as Whites of European ancestry.

  • Commenter

    Genuine question here. How does “funding a program” prevent disturbed people from killing themselves? Has any suicide ever been prevented by “greater funding”?

    Suicide is desperately sad, I ask the questions in good faith.

    • Hm…you know better than me, and- are they somehow “seen” in wider media culture ? Or more or less neglected ? From what I’ve read on Lakota reservations, it’s really a miserable life, life lived in poverty & hopelessness. They’re not “gibs me dat” people. Probably, a short term policy would be their subtle reintegration with White society- economically, educationally, culturally.

      They just cannot compete in the matrix of cutthroat Capitalism. And they are not racial threat to Whites- unlike Bantus and Mestizos from across Rio Grande.

  • The Worlds Scapegoat

    Most of these suicides are the result of the diversity insanity (communism) that was swept over the globe. I think those Native Americans would have had a stronger self image and survival instincts if they had been treated like crap rather then been fed the diversity crap. I am not claiming that we should treat other like crap. Suicide is also higher in very diverse areas where everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.

  • They can’t adapt. Just like Eskimos, Ostyaks, Samoyeds, .. or various Polynesians. Their best chance is to assimilate into White phenotype & culture.
    Just like ancient Romans assimilated Etruscans. 

  • MAX

    What about the Mexican Drug Cartel and their hideous destructive role on Indian Reservations? 

  • Marty

    Several years ago I visited  my brother and his American Indian wife .  They lived in a trailer on a reservation.  My brother was very concerned when we drove away.  He thought that the local “natives’would break in after we left.  I was truly surprised by the amount of crime being committed on Indian reservations.  While on the reservation I noted that Indian art was very expensive, while Mexican art work, also sold there was much nicer and very cheap.  There were signs above the Indian artisans  that said “We welcome Japanese and Germans”.  

    • Invictus_1

       We obviously need more immediate reports like yours.  I am not Amerind, but I do like to know what is going on.  There has been nearly nothing reported on this problem in the media.

    • Invictus_1

       I don’t know about the Japanese, but the Germans have a very silly culture of Amerind worship going on.  I have experienced them chiding “white” America over their treatment of Indians as a painfully obvious over-compensation for Nazi shame.

      • It’s due to hugely successful- not in the US, but all over Central & Eastern Europe – Karl May’s novels which romanticize American Indians. May’s fans included both Hitler and Einstein.

  • Invictus_1

     I am guessing that you don’t live in the Western U.S.  This has been done for decades.  Indian reservations occupy huge tracts of land and are self-governing, which is part of the problem.  They get to vote in U.S. elections, but we have no say of what they do or don’t do on their reservations, except give more money perhaps.  We not only restock the fish, but Amerinds have opened ended rights to catch numbers or method, so they use nets – not very sporting. 

    You forget why they were moved to reservations.  Anyone who has lived near one or had the misfortune of having their car break down near one usually finds out when they leave their car overnight.  Amerinds have always felt that whatever they see unattended is theirs for the taking, or even rationalize that since it is on “their land” they have a right to it.  In the 19th century (and earlier) this applied to taking captives for slavery and trade (but also for their amusement via torture and murder games).  This thinking is also prevalent in the “Hispanic” populations that have caused so much grief to many whites in the present.

    As for buffalo, there are well established ranches where they range, but you will also find that today, Indians don’t want to get onto horses and hunt them.  They like their pick-up trucks, atvs, and high powered rifles.

    I am not against them, but rather than pumping themselves up with historical lies, they really ought to regain their own dignity through historical and personal honesty first.  Once they have truly rebuilt their honor, they won’t have to fight things like archeological and anthropological investigation or lie about historical fact, heaping hatred on “the white man” for what has to be seen as human destiny.  Finding yourself in the morass of generalizing humanity takes work and I wish them success as I hope we as whites will find it, too.

  • StillModerated

    Maybe amerind teens are offing themselves because politicians keep referring to them as First Nation and, Native Americans. And maybe it’s because they choose to live on the reservations. Or it could be the dope, and the casinos, and the television.

  • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

    MICHEAL C. SCOTT,
    Of course you already decided and that’s why you have a non-white child and a non-white wife.  And no offense but I’m not interested in your wife’s family history or about your non-white child.
    You are offended and badly so too for if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have filled your previous post to me full of insults and telling me I’m wrong because I won’t follow your lead.  Ya know, including asians in my future.  Asians are already in my present and from what I’ve seen so far, I want NONE of it!  I don’t need asian politicians, asian food, asian culture and I certainly don’t need anymore asian towns in America.  Nor do I need to pay anymore Taxes so asians can continue building on their already expansive asian privilege even though they have no history here.  No racism, no slavery and no segregated water fountains, parks, schools, etc. neither.
    “BELONG TO” – Fine.  You belong to no one.  Now, why are you here on a website that is for and about White People since you don’t “belong to” White People?
    You never told me you were a non-white.  You’re a non-white so you being married to and having non-white children is fine.  Now tell me, since you’re a non-white, why are you here?  Why do you non-whites always have to harass White People?  It’s not enough you people have tons and tons of Minority Privilege handed to you on a Silver Platter courtesy of White Tax Paying Americans?  You have to seek out every single White Place you can find just so you can make sure White Folk never get any peace too?
    “offended” – I was until you told me you’re a non-white but since you are, all is good.  I mean really, it’s not like you’re White and then went out and helped the six billion non-whites have an even bigger population over us White Folk.
    Siberia – Help yourself but I’m American and I’m staying here.
    As for your last part – I have no idea what in the hell you’re talking about.  I said I didn’t want you on my side and it’s because from what I’ve seen, those with asian families always have a problem with me because I won’t smile and fawn all over their treasonous choice.
    As for the enemy part, just because I’m not interested in an asian “white” race and “future” doesn’t mean I’m your enemy.  I’m not an enemy to anyone except those who force me to live among non-whites.  All I want is what I used to have, an All White American Town.  Well, we had a few blacks but they were less than 1% and we did have voluntary unspoken segregation.  We also had no corporations of any kind.  No wal-marts, k-marts, etc.  That’s why our small businesses never went out of business.  No big boxes were allowed to put them out of business with their cheap foreign made crap.

    • Michael C. Scott

      Nobody’s asking you to smile and fawn, as you put it.  Certainly I am not.  When something is not mine by right, I will not ask for it, and when something is mine by right, I don’t ask for that, either. 

      Your all-white American town was only ever a dream.  Let’s go back to the 1890s, when Theodore Roosevelt was variously Police Commissioner of New York City or Secretary of the Navy.  The US had not been inundated by Mexicans at that point, but Chinese had done much of the railroad work in California, and Japanese had come to Hawaii to pick pineapples and cut sugar cane there.  Women were not allowed to vote at that time.

      If you say blacks knew their place generations ago, then quarter-breed Amerinds like me knew ours.  A hundred years ago, you would not have objected to a ‘breed marrying an Oriental, rather than a white woman.  The problem here seems to be that I am well-educated and exceptionally bright, and thus perhaps a net loss for European Caucasiandom.

      The notion that independant others get to pick and choose who is fit to marry and produce children with other whites – or anyone else – implies a sort of ownership that I have already refuted.

      The logical extension of your argument is institution of a caste system, in which human beings are assigned value only on the basis of their ancestry, rather than their intelligence, education or behavior.  We already have that, and it is called “Affirmative Action”.  If you had not yet noticed, most sane people hate the concept.

      I never received any minority priviledges.  My fair complexion, brown hair and grey eyes scream “White Male”.  When I tried to get temporary disbility after my stroke in 2006, I was declined. 

      You obviously hate my having married a Japanese, but would you marry a 3/16 Amerind ex-con, even from the relatively civilized northeastern woodland tribes, who is educated and owns his own home outright?  If you would not, are people like me supposed to never have children and eventually just die out?
       
         

         

      • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

        You’re really hung up on the “ownership” and “right” thing aren’t you?  I reckon those two words are trigger words for you so next time, I’ll be sure to use other words.

        My All White American Town was a fact.  Not now it’s not and guess why?  That’s right, hispanics and asians have ruined it just like they ruined every other American Town they’ve infested.

        So asians were willing to work for slave wages during the railroad days.  What do you want me to do about it?  And Hawaii is filled with a bunch of non-whites who hate Whites.  What’s that term they like to use when referring to Whites?

        women and vote – They shouldn’t be allowed to Vote today neither.  Neither should most White Men and certainly no non-whites.  Allowing everyone the Right to Vote is what got us here.  No one wants Equality and Fairness, they want special treatment and funding for all their own little special interest groups and programs from people that don’t benefit from it.  No, most people should not be allowed to Vote.  America wasn’t built so differing groups of people can legally extort tax money from Americans.

        WAIT JUST A DAGGONE SECOND!  I would never approve of an Indian marrying an Oriental.  I’m one of those who believes The Peoples (everyone) needs to keep to their own.  And, it’s Natural for people to want to preserve and safeguard their own kind.

        blacks – I didn’t say generations ago, I said in my Town.  In my Town they were very well behaved, clean and kept to themselves and I miss that terribly.  And, they didn’t pump out kids like no tomorrow neither.

        You are a net loss but it’s because you chose an asian over us.  Why did you do that?  You didn’t give enough time for your True Love to come along and now it’s too late and that’s why I’m mad at you.

        I never dictated to you who you should marry.  I only wish to be able to dictate to you that you find a White Lady to make a Family with.

        caste system – I don’t mean to sound like that.  I prefer White People make a genuine effort to bring our numbers up so we don’t cease to exist.  If that’s “caste”, so be it.  What can I say?

        I hate Affirmative Action and am constantly complaining about it.  I despise it and I know it’s supposed to be illegal.  You don’t equalize things by swinging the pendulum in the opposite direction.

        would I marry – Depends.  Are you a cheater?  Are you really a criminal or just someone who made a mistake and paid for it?  Are you dependable?  I mean, can I count on you for both good and bad days?  Will you be by my side when I’m sick?  Will you still love me if I lose my job?  You know us “women” (I know you don’t consider me a Lady so I’ll be a “woman” here) have lots of questions.

        die out – And this is why I’m so mad at you.  You already “died out” yourself.  I could be wrong but I’m guessing you have more in common with White People and White Culture than you do Asians and Asian Culture and that’s why I have a problem with people like you who choose to go against it.

        • Come on, Stephanie, you’re overreacting. Would you be much disturbed if in a city of 30,000 Whites appear 2 Whites with squaw spouses & 5 Whites with Chinese, Japanese and Asian Indian spouses ? These kids would are already “whitish” and big chances are their kids will be completely white.

          I agree about Blacks & big numbers invasion of foreigners who try to impose their anti- White parasitism and are actually hostile to white European people.

          But 2-6 mixed couples won’t change a picture a bit.

          • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

            2-6 is HUGE! and yes, I have a problem with it.  It’s strange to see a person with another person that is opposite in every way.
            I came from an area where you never saw a hispanic or asian or muslim or anything foreign and you certainly never saw any race mixing.  I’ll never come out of this Culture Shock I find myself in.

      • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

        By the way, most Japanese Men probably feel the same way I do.  A White Man stole one of theirs.  You’d be surprised at the amount of people who really don’t like someone of another race coming along and dating/marrying/breeding with one of theirs.

        • Michael C. Scott

          I didn’t have to ask any Japanese men; only one Japanese woman, and she said “Yes”.  One of my friends, though opined that I would make a good husband for her.  He was also Japanese.

          We are not property. 

          I’m not going against European culture; far from it.  Our freedom is wholly Enlightment-era European thinking.

          I am not a cheater.  Nobody who would say that chainsaws are acceptable for suicide would cheat on his wife.  I would never leave her for anyone, not even my old high school girlfriend.  Not anyone. 

          With my federal felony, I made a mistake I wish I had not made, and after 3 years behind bars and 9 years more outside I know that I will never be done paying for it.  I used to go shooting every weekend, and I can’t do that now.

          It’s quite OK if you are mad, even if you are angry at me, but I was not the one who annoyed you; you did, and you did it when you decided you were owed a white man just for being a white woman.  

          You annoyed your own self with your sense of entitlement, and I suspect you will never be free of any of it.  For this I am sorry.  I can’t do anything to fix this for you.

           

          • AmericanTaxPayerNoMore

            Hahahaha! You Funny White Man!

            property – You’re quite the touchy one.  Look, I’m not trying to argue with you, I’m trying to get you to accept my disappointment in you.

            Enlightenment-era European – What’s that?  The “new white race”?  Please Sir, give me a break.  I want there to be Germans, Americans, Indians and Dutch too.  I want each and every Ethnicity to Live but each in their own space.  I’m a Segregationist at Heart.

            “chainsaws are acceptable for suicide”?  Excuse me?  Suicide is not acceptable for anyone.  Being killed (from war not murder) is much better than dying from one’s own hand borne from nothing but Pure Pain.

            cheater – good for you.  I will never accept your asian marriage.  Your Wife can be as Sweet as can be and I could Love her to Death BUT, I will NEVER accept your “race-trading” ways.

            prison – sounds like a drug charge or some other minor offense.  I hope you’re done with it and I know about the Forever Loss of Rights and that’s Illegal too.  To Punish one Forever is an Act of Cruel and Unusual Punishment.  There’s lots of Constitutional Rights being Violated and every single day too.  “We” need to be suing everyone for everything.

            I have a White Man and I am angry with you.  And, it was you who did the annoying.  You’re the one who came to a White Website and then acted as though no one (me) is supposed to be upset over your choice for a Wife.

            sense of entitlement – When it comes to White People, yes, I feel entitled.  What’s wrong with that?  You were Born White and so, your place is with us.  While I recognize that key word that will, I’m sure, drive you nuts “your place”, I will not change it.  You Sir, should be breeding with a Lovely White Lady and doing your part to ensure Your People Remain.

            be free of it – You’re certainly right about that!  I may like you all I want but I can never accept your chosen choice.

          • Michael C. Scott

            Extortion.  Three years in the feds after my ex- father cheated me out of $625,000 and I threatened him.  He doesn’t live in the United States anymore.

            Perhaps this is a “white” website.  I used to do a lot of work in microelectonics R&D work back in the 1990s.  I have 79 US and foreign patents awarded as a result.  What work have you done to establish any claim whatever to do with computer technology?  If you have a mobile phone with an integrated barium/strontium titanate or a computer game system that uses lead zirconate/titanate FRAM chips, you are using something I once helped develop.

            As for my “coming here”, I’ve been posting in forum at Amren for about nine years.  When did you start posting here? 

            What you appear to be saying is that while you already have a Significant Other you with whom are happy, other people are allowed to be happy only with your approval.

            My family receives no public assistance of any sort, so as far as our impact on your life is concerned, we might as well be on Mars.  As far as I can discern, you have claimed me as your personal doggy fire-hydrant as a strictly sexual territorial thing.

            And yes, chainsaws are in fact acceptable for suicide.

  • curri

    I think different groups tend to be  damaged  in different ways by the crude and hypermaterialistic Hollywood-African culture  that dominates  America today.  But it’s bad  for everyone-with the possible exception of one group.  

    • Michael C. Scott

      Would that be the same Jews who marry out at a rate now approaching two-thirds, or someone else?

      • curri

        Hitting the firewater tonight?  You sound pretty hostile. 

        You should ask that question of Kevin MacDonald , it looks like he’s available over  at OO tonight.  

  • Michael C. Scott

    I’m also a little curious as to which degree of intra-racial mixing should be allowed.

    Should quarter-breed injuns like me be allowed to intermarry with white women?  Conversely, should we be allowed to miscegnate with full-blooded Indians?

    Should Celts, Germanics and European Latins be prohibited from mixing?  What about Slavs, or Greeks or Jews?

    Should Chinese, Japanese and Koreans be prohibited from mixing with each other?  Since for the most part they genuinely hate each other in their home countries, this is a non-issue, but what about here in the USA?  One of my Japanese friends is married to a Korean woman.  He quit his job at Matsushita and stayed here; things were just unpleasant for them in Japan.  Now he works at the government labs in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

    Where Amerindians are concerned, and especially those out west here, I think the mistake was having only partial assimilation.  On the east coast, most of the tribes already farmed, which made their assimilation – after the usual wars – into another society of farmers much easier.  Likewise in Mexico, where the Spanish found – you guessed it – Aztec and Mayan farmers.  Things become much more complicated when one group wants to farm the same land that others want to hunt buffalo on.  Farmers and nomadic hunters/herders used to fight like cats and dogs in Eurasia as well.  For a while – until the Mongols were defeated at the gates of Vienna and then again smashed by a large Mameluk army in Egypt, the farmers were losing quite badly.

    Where do Australian aboriginees fit in?  One of my best friends Down Under was 1/4 aboriginal.  He had the fair skin, red hair, blue eyes and freckles the rest of  his ancestry – Russian and Scottish would suggest.  He married a Chinese woman, and they have a son with sandy-brown hair.

    Where do the French fit in?  Their language is Latinate, but there are some strange words like “fromage” for cheese.  Latin for cheese is “casein”, from which we get our English word, and even German is “Kaese”, obviously from the same root.  The French physically resemble a combination of Germanic, Latin and Celtic elements and there are some features in the Somme valley that one sees nowhere else; some elements of the language might have come from there.  Even the Basques are a bit different physically, and their language is neither Indo-European or Uralic – even Etruscan has been shown to be Uralic.  Basque is a relict languange.

    What about Japanese?  Many of them are partly Ainu, who look quite a bit Caucasian but which according to DNA work are actually the result of convergent evolution.  The Nivkh people in the same general area look much more Asiatic.

    Finally, if white American couples were willing to have more children and care for them properly, what Sayaka and I have done would be statitistically irrelevant; when you pour a cup of orange juice into a barrel full of lemonade, what you have is still lemonade.  After you defecate into that barrel the lemonade is undrinkable.

     

    • Being white means phenotype plus Western culture & identity. Most of whites are mixed, so extreme race purists are actually living in a la-la land. As a rule of thumb: no harm in race mixing with small amounts of Asians who will in 1-2 generation become White; also, despite this site’s almost unanimous negative view on Hispanics- no harm in mixing with white Hispanics, even with light Mestizos (on individual level, not hordes of little round brown people). The same goes for Lakotas and other “recessives”.

      Where the line should be drawn ? We all know- blacks. With Bantus, even decently looking, it’s, in my book- NO-NO-NO. It isn’t for nothing that numerous celebrities are bragging about their 1/16 or so American Indian ancestry and not a single white person would mention that some of their ancestors were blacks.

      Here are some mutts whom I consider to be white (I guess Le Gaulois will accuse me that I’m picking good looking celebrities, but, what the heck ;^))

      http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/files/2009/11/norah-jones.png

      http://static.mamamia.com.au/wp-content/gallery/keanu-reeves/keanu%20reeves%2013.jpg

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Hi-res-rosa-rios.jpg/485px-Hi-res-rosa-rios.jpg

      • Michael C. Scott

        We aren’t just “mixed”, we average 4% Neanderthal DNA.  I told someone here at Amren here years ago that, and he didn’t believe me; he was black and did not want to believe that we are separate species.  One of my high school friends is probably mostly Neanderthal, because he’s built like a gorilla, and not a little one, either.  He has a heart of gold, and I’d lay in traffic for him, but he looks like a shaved gorilla.  He’s Scottish, Ukranian and German. 

        When he was arrested, he took two full cans of pepper spray and repeatedly TOOK AWAY the nightsticks he was being beaten with, giving them back only when the cops said “please”.  One of them later told my frend that if wrestling was real, he’d be good at it.  He eventually surrendered only when they said “please”.

        Six months on work-release for him. 

        Northeast Asians also have traits that are normally considered pre-human, like concave incisors.  Since northeast Asians and Europeans both have Neanderthal and other “pre-human” characteristics, but quite different ones, this is worth studying.
         

    • “Should quarter-breed injuns like me be allowed to intermarry with
      white women?”  

      Not with my family. But worry not, Mr. Scott; between 15-20% of American whites are “part Cherokee” already anyway.

      (Before I get a European weighing in with mockery on that, it isn’t that much different from how many Europeans are “part Gypsy”)

      “Conversely, should we be allowed to miscegnate with
      full-blooded Indians?”

      Well, I guess for you it would depend on what the tribe’s sentiment and bylaws are.

      “Should Celts, Germanics and European Latins be prohibited from mixing?”

      No.

      ” What about Slavs, or Greeks or Jews?”

      For me this mainly a religious and cultural issue… I would not want a family with a Jewish identity even on a secondary level. It is something that, as my children would grow up, they might decide is there real identity and that cannot be allowed.

      Some groups of Slavs (such as the Bosniaks) are Moslem and so I feel the same about them. But as for most Slavs and the Greeks, it is again “no”.