One in Five Young Asians Think Honour Violence Can Be Justified

Tom Whitehead, Telegraph (London), March 19, 2012

Some three per cent even think murder, or so-called “honour killings”, can be justified in some circumstances

And two thirds of young British Asians, including young women, say families should live according to the concept of “honour”, according to the poll for BBC Panorama.

The findings come despite attempts by politicians, the police and prosecutors to send out a strong message that honour-based violence is unacceptable.

Police fear as many as 12 people a year are victims of honour killings in the UK and a recent survey suggested there are more than 2,800 honour crimes committed annually—the equivalent of eight a day.

Last week, the mother of a teenager stabbed to death by her Asian boyfriend claimed her daughter was the first white victim of an honour killing.

Laura Wilson, 17, was repeatedly knifed in the head on a secluded tow path by Ashtiaq Ashgar in 2010 after their relationship turned sour. He was subsequently jailed for at least17-and-a-half years.

In the most high profile case, five men were eventually jailed over the 2006 murder of Banaz Mahmod, including her own father.

The lead prosecutor for honour crimes warned the latest survey reveals campaigners now face a new generation of supports of honour violence.

Nazir Afzal, from the Crown Prosecution Service, said: “I thought this was a generational thing, it was something that would die out with my generation.

“Unfortunately, I’ve come across many young people who think the same way.”

The survey of 500 Asian men aged 16 to 34 was conducted for a Panorama investigation in to honour crimes.

It found 18 per cent thought punishments on women could be justified in some circumstances if they had dishonoured their family.

That could include disobeying a father’s wishes, wanting to marry someone the family or community considered unacceptable, going out in the evening unaccompanied or dressing in an unacceptable manner.

Three per cent said honour killing could be justified while a similar proportion were undecided.

Some 69 per cent said families should live according to the concept of honour of “izzat”.

Mr Afzal told Panorama: “We don’t know the true figure of honour killings. It’s anything between 10 and 12 a year in this country.

“I don’t know how many other unmarked graves there are in our green and pleasant land, I don’t know. And that suggests to me that we’re underestimating this issue.

“My view is there’s no place for multicultural sensitivity in this situation . . . This is something that we cannot tolerate.”

Jasvinder Sanghera, of Karma Nirvana, set up a helpline for women at risk of honour based violence. At 14, she was imprisoned in her bedroom after refusing to marry a man she had never met.

“I was conditioned to learn that from a very young age, it is dishonourable to make eye contact with men, sit with men,” she said.

“And the rules shift and change as you get older, you’re not allowed to have boyfriends, be seen talking to the opposite sex, to cut your hair, wear make-up. You are taught these are all dishonourable acts of behaviour.”

In 2010, Mohammed Ali and Omar Hussain were jailed for life for the murder of Banaz Mahmod in January 2006, after being extradited from Iraq.

The men carried out the murder with a third man, Mohammad Hama, on behalf of Miss Mahmod’s father, Mahmod Mahmod, and his brother, Ari.

Hama and Miss Mahmod’s father and uncle, members of the Kurdish community, were jailed at the Old Bailey in 2007.

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  • I am not surprized at all by this. The main problem is the unwillingness to allow women to live their lives as they please. They are afraid that she will lose her virginity and will be deemed unmarriagable.

    • They have premarital sex, but a back doors variant, to preserve virginity.

      • I remember a story that I heard once  about a imam in Egypt who was upset about a virgin restoration kit that was being sold and that he wanted it to be banned. Also I have heard of women going to doctors to have their hymen restored. 

        • Hymen restoration is a big biz not only in Muslim countries, but  around the globe.

  • JohnEngelman

    In the Palestinian communities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Israel, and Jordan, women are executed in their homes, in open fields, and occasionally in public, sometimes before crowds of cheering onlookers. Honor killings account for virtually all of the murders of Palestinian women in these areas.                                                                        

      Honor killings occur for a variety of offenses, including allegations of premarital or extramarital sex, refusing an arranged marriage, attempting to obtain a divorce, or simply talking with a man. If a woman brings shame to the family, her male relatives are bound by duty and culture to kill her…
    Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman. Men are presumed innocent; the woman must have tempted him into raping her or enticed him into having an affair. A woman is expected to protect her honor, even at the cost of her own life. If she survives a violent rape, she is condemned for her “mistake” and may be killed by her family…
    Last year, seventeen-year-old Afaf Younes was killed by her father, who had allegedly been sexually molesting her. Afaf had tried to escape his sexual abuse by running away, but she was caught and returned to her father. He then shot her in the name of honor.

  • TheCogitator

    It is not Asians, it is moslems.

    See what Pat Condell has to say:

    • Great find.He was telling the truth that many do not want to hear. Why are Muslims coddled in the media and Christians villified?

      • anonymous_amren

        “Why are Muslims coddled in the media and Christians villified?”

        For completely seperate reasons. There’s no connection between the villification of Christians and the coddling of Muslims.
        Christians have always been villified, because Christianity is superstitious nonsense that we had to constantly fight to reach our current level of scientific and technological progress.
        Muslims would be villified too, if it wasn’t for the xenophilia that white people are infected with.

        •  No, your comment is a nonsense.
          To quote:

          “Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to
          Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution;
          it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an
          enterprise.” Sam Pascoe

  • It seems weird to call pakis asian. I alwasys picture nice civilized Japanese/Chinese people when I hear it.

    • Me too.  Every time I see anything about Asians in the UK, I know it is usually about some Pakistani Muslim who does not realize that he is living in the 21st century, not in the middle ages.

      • Pat

        In the 2007 Census here (UK)  Asians are clasified as Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Other Asian.  The Chinese are classified as Chinese or Other Ethnic Group, completely separate.  We have no significant populations of Japanese or Korean people. 

    • loyalwhitebriton

      I’m British, and even I don’t know why we call them Asians, it’s just always been the case – though when I was a youngster we simply referred to them, derogatarily, as “Pakis”; ‘Asian’ is the ‘proper’ name.
      Anyway, I think “Honour Killings” (in the UK at least) is a relatively recent phenomenon. Asians started to arrive in the UK in the 50’s, and I don’t think that I ever heard of an “honour killing” till about the 90’s. I personally blame an increasingly degenerate sociey; easy sex, booze, drugs, reality TV, etc. Many Asians looked around Britain and thought “Why should we integrate into this”?, and subsequently embraced an ultra-conservative view of the world which was in accordance with their cultural heritage, ie, Islam.
      Now, I’m no social anthropologist, but I also think that the mass immigration that has been the norm for Britain since the 50’s is, at least partly, responsible for the increasing degeneration of our society. As society has become more multicultural, it has naturally become more fractured, with society seperating along racial and cultural fault lines. This has led the indigenous, white, Christian, British population to look around Britain and think (and this is certainly true for myself) “This no longer looks like my own country; I am increasingly feeling like a stranger in my own land; I am frustrated at all of the so-called ‘Hate-Speech’ legislation which seems only directed at us white Britons; Where is my culture, etc”?.
      These feelings of dislocation, displacement, frustration, and the lack of pan-national camaraderie, have led many to seek escape; to find solace in something else which feels real.
      Hence, sex, booze, drugs, etc, becomes the sanctuary of choice. This causes even more Asians to find shelter in Islam (whereas before they were moderate, or even indifferent) and so the cycle continues.
      The result? – It doesn’t look good for us white Britons!.

      • Kurt Plummer

        What you people are ignoring is this-

        1.  It’s not just a religious matter but a cultural one.  Pakistan is a land roughly the size of Texas yet with 170 million people in it.  How do you keep from being one of the poor untouchables?  By keeping _very_ tight control over your businesses as ‘all in the family’, conserved-by-marriage, micro cultures.  This is why the Pakistani’s rival the Israelis or the Parsi for the sheer number of inbred congenital flaws.
        2.  A part of keeping things insular is going home to give or get a bride for someone’s son.  It’s a payoff for those who get to come to the West as someone’s spouse.  And it’s an insurance policy that the clannish attitudes and patriarchal norms are -never changed-.  This is why the fool who thought it was ‘generational’ hasn’t seen the attitude die out.  Why should it?  It’s a great way to conserve the culture and enable the conquest of host country through sheer numbers as birth rates.
        3.  These people are undersexed at home.  To the point where many Pakistani males know they have little or no chance of having a family.  They come to Britain and are -encouraged- (through the power of money) to sow their seeds widely among the barbarian whites whom they see as beneath them -because- they don’t protect their women the same way.  Which allows them to also continue a basic continuance of mysogyny to their own females because their boys are getting it polished out of community.
        4.  Women in isolation cannot force trades.
        As soon as a woman cannot sell her sex in trade for privilege to ‘just anyone’ without fear of death is truly vulnerable to domination in all her activities because that is the only thing which (as poor woman) she -can- offer.  Add to this the fact that most Pakistani women are in fact not pretty by white standards and white boys with an ounce of brains know this and so are less likely to want to destroy their own desireability with a bastard with a genetic tan and you have a real lack of options for their females.
        5.  Most Pakistani families have at least a passing familiarity with criminality.
        They engage in murderously competitive ‘business’ at home (Pakistan would make the NRA blush at the number of weapons in the country).  And they act with much the same ruthless disdain in Britain.  Where business as usual is the right to move up if you are successful, there is no reason to violate community rules of an Omerta` like silence.  Because, again, the Pakistanis hold the British in _utter contempt_, simply for letting them in the door.  Something that would -never- happen in their homeland, especially for foreigners.

        The last is your real weapon to use against them.  Because if they know what they are doing is wrong because they acknowledge the utterly barbaric nature of their own deeds in their own eyes, then any loud hue and cry, no matter how vehement is nothing but the barking of the hyena, objecting to being driven off the zebra corpse by the lions.  What you have to realize is that you have choice: being the lion or being the zebra.

  • Aussie_Thinker

    Honour is good, but in the right context, and this is certainly not the right context.

  • ? Crystal wrote a trivial stuff & you began preaching on the low state of morals today. Relax, this is not the issue.

  • The_Bobster

    Shunned by the women, but never by the guys who liked “fun dates”.

  • The number is lower than I would expect: I think the reason is that 1) non-Moslem such as Hindus and Near-Eastern Christians are included, as are Moslem women who don’t like the idea of being burned to death or splashed with acid.

    Amonst young Moslem males, I expect the number is much higher, even if some are lying to “deceive the infidel”. 

  • I agree with you. Many of the women in third world countries are married young before the age of 18. Some of them even before puberty. The men who marry these women tell their parents that they would not attempt to have sex with the girl before puberty. But they lie. The girls often experience vaginal tears and other problems because they are not mature enough to have sex.