Groups File Federal Complaint Alleging Discrimination in Harvard Admissions Process

Meg Bernhard and Noah Delwiche, Harvard Crimson, May 16, 2015

Sixty-four Asian-American groups filed a complaint against Harvard on Friday with the federal Departments of Education and Justice calling for an investigation into what they charge is the College’s “unlawful use of race” in its admissions process to discriminate against Asian-American applicants.

The complaint alleges that Harvard,  as well as other Ivy League colleges, deny Asian-American applicants with “almost perfect” SAT scores, “top 1% GPAs,” and “significant awards or leadership positions” in extracurricular activities, while similar applicants of other races have been admitted.

The complaint comes just months after the group Students for Fair Admissions, Inc., filed a similar lawsuit against Harvard alleging that its undergraduate admissions processes  “have injured and continue to injure” the student plaintiffs “by intentionally and improperly discriminating against them on the basis of their race and ethnicity in violation of Title VI.”

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This year, Asian-Americans comprise more than 21 percent of the incoming freshman class.

To build its case, the new complaint frequently cites external research by national experts, including Thomas J. Espenshade, a sociologist at Princeton and co-author of “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life.”

{snip}

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  • MekongDelta69

    Sorry Cholly – you lose to the blacks.

    They’re waaaaay down below you (or above you – depending upon how you look at it) on the ‘perpetually oppressed’ victim’s food chain.

    • listenupbub

      The accepted term is “privilege hierarchy.”

    • Ella

      You also lose to Jewish benefactors at 28%. If you cannot pay out tuition costs, you hit the rode “Jack” with fellow Whites.

  • But I go back to the Espenshade-Radford Study and the long Ron Unz essay. When I think of who is handicapped and who has the real privilege when it comes to Ivy admissions, Asians don’t come to mind when it comes to either.

    • Chip Carver

      Yes, in terms of raw numbers, it’s Whites are hit even harder than Asians. I certainly hope that the work of Ron Unz and Kevin MacDonald are brought up in court (do yourself a favor, look up their articles, look at the staggering discrimination against Whites at Harvard and the Ivy League in general). There will likely be some sort of gentlemen’s agreement put together at some point in order to not get the public, meaning White public, riled up.

      This situation can go any number of ways, and the folks pulling the strings will do their best to make sure that they remain unaffected and Whites are kicked even harder. But it’s all building toward something much bigger than college admissions, and it isn’t going to end well. They always overreach. Always.

      • John Kar

        No. Whites aren’t hit harder than Asians. You’re operating under the assumption that whites and Asians have the same distribution in pre-secondary educational success and then using that with the stat of non-Jewish Europeans only making up 20% of Ivy League admissions to imply bias.

        SAT scores by race are available on the CollegeBoard’s websites. Asians, by far, have far lower z-scores than whites in the higher SAT scores in all sections. The math section is the most pronounced, where a 700 score is the 75th percentile for Asians while being the 94th percentile for whites.

        Assuming that a white person and an Asian person with the same exact scores and achievement apply to an Ivy League, the white person has a far greater chance than the Asian person in getting admitted.

        • listenupbub

          Asians study for like 200 hours for the SAT’s, whites study for like 2 hours.

          • DaveMed

            Source?

          • listenupbub

            I get my information from the educationrealist blog. He is a math teacher and SAT tutor in California. He has been tutoring for a long, long time.

            He is not anti-Asian at all, he is just a realist about racial issues in education. I highly recommend his blog for pleasure reading if you are interested in our education debates.

          • I didn’t study for the SAT at all. When questioned about it later on, I explained that I’m just really smart.

          • listenupbub

            I studied the night before the test for a few hours.

            I scored well enough to theoretically go to any university, though I fell asleep in the reading section and left five questions blank. I was a terrible student back then, and very lazy. But the SAT is simply getting easier.

            They used to have those analogy questions on the reading section that were really cool and hard. They required general knowledge, and I was really good at them when I was a kid. I got like a 720 on the reading section when I was in 7th grade.

            I think the adcoms know these standardized tests are actually not that meaningful beyond a certain score threshold. SAT scores are not well correlated with GPA at my undergrad university. Asians are like the only ones who are obsessed with them. Blacks, for a different reason- they get awful scores and consume a large amount of SAT tutoring so that they can barely make acceptable scores.

        • BleedALot

          Harvard admission stats do not line up with real world SAT scores, that is the point of the Asians filing complaints. Also, the numbers of Asians from the US scoring over 700 on the math portion of the SAT is not as high as you state. A higher percentage of them score over 700. Whites are better at verbal thinking than Asians, whites who spend very little time studying routinely outscore Asians who study many hours per day. Once the type of thinking required doesn’t rely so heavily on rote learning and cram style learning Asians start to lose ground to stupid white people: http://affirmativeactionhoax -dot- com/corrections/

          • John Kar

            Holy crap… So much wrong in that post.

            The data is freely available on collegeboard’s official website.

            For Asians, 700 SAT Math score is at 75th percentile out of 196,000
            test-takers while the same SAT math score is at the 94th percentile out
            of 835,000 test-takers for whites. So 49,000 Asians score >700 on SAT
            M while 50,000 whites score >700 on math each year.

            Also, Asians have a lower z-score in the SAT Verbal sections as well.
            6% of whites score >700 on verbal while 9% of Asians do.

            Mind that this is with approximately half of Asians who don’t speak English fluently.

            As someone who took the SAT 5 years ago and scored in the 99+ percentile, I don’t think the SAT in its current state is much of a rote learning test. In fact, the reason why the SAT has been under so much criticism historically is its close ties with IQ exams.

            Aside from the vocabulary and the grammatical questions, which I think they should remove, the SAT is almost entirely a fluid intelligence test. The questions on these exams can’t be prepped for, contrary to popular
            belief. In fact, CollegeBoard has attempted to prove that the SAT can be
            prepped for, but found in their study that intensive prep only raised
            scores be a measly 20 points per section on average.

            The types of questions on each SAT exam are unique and no amount of studying can prepare you for the questions they might ask.
            An example of a question they might ask is the following:

            A trinomial is a number with 3 consecutive integer factors. How many trinomials are there that are less than 1,000?

            It’s unfortunate that the PC crowd made CollegeBoard and ETS cave. The new Common Core-based SAT exam starting next year is almost entirely a rote learning test. The SAT exam is the one thing in the disastrous US education system that we did properly over other countries, and now that’s gone. The SAT exam did a phenomenal job tracking very intelligent kids in poor schools and neighborhoods and gave them a chance at attending top colleges with massive scholarships. The new SAT is only going to help study grinders and rich kids who went to fancy private schools.

      • BleedALot

        Whites are hit harder. I don’t know why some people post numbers that are not true. If they are against whites they should go somewhere else. They already have the regular media on their side.

        • Illidan Stormragge

          Many whites are not urbanized but come from rural or suburban backgrounds. Thus many work on their parents’ businesses, do blue collar work, or simply do not get the same educational background as Asians and Jews get access to. Then you have to remember that modern white culture is pretty crappy and not comparable to the work centric culture of Asians. Because of this, while whites do inevitably get hit by affirmative action it is questionably if it is to a worse degree as Asians.

          Asians get penalized points once they apply to Harvard. I haven’t seen the numbers for whites, but my guess is the penalty is lower since Asians have higher scores on average. I do not think whites per person compete well against Asians academically.

          • John Kar

            “Thus many work on their parents’ businesses, do blue collar work, or
            simply do not get the same educational background as Asians and Jews get
            access to.”

            I don’t think this is a valid excuse. Actually, it reminds me of the whining from the darker races. I’m white and did spend a significant amount of my time working at my parents’ bakery growing up, which negatively impacted my GPA (Teachers kept complaining about my not doing HW during parent-teacher conference), but GPA pales in comparison to SAT score in college admissions.

            Even with my horrendous 83 GPA, my 2310 SAT score got me into a lot of the top 20 institutions. I studied English grammatical rules and vocabulary whenever I had the time, which took no longer than 2 weeks, 3 hours a day. Considering everything else on the exam was testing fluid intelligence, I saw no need to study any further.

            I think most whites can find 21 hours to study in middle school or their first 3 years of high school.
            Hell, even without studying, I still think I would have scored above a 2200 considering I knew most of the vocabulary words and all of the grammatical rules beforehand.

          • Lexonaut

            “I don’t think this is a valid excuse. Actually, it reminds me of the whining from the darker races.”

            Thank you, thank you, thank you. That someone may or may not be the unfair beneficiary of affirmative action is no reason to throw your hands up in despair. It simply means that you may have to work harder to achieve your goals.

            And so what? America used to be about working hard. Let’s get back to that.

          • Blackfish

            True, however the children of Ivy League grads (“legacies”) are also given preferential treatment. I suspect (strongly) that major donors are given extra special treatment.

          • Lexonaut

            “I suspect (strongly) that major donors are given extra special treatment.”

            Especially if they’re likely to breed future major donors.

          • Henry Ford

            No. The elite schools have huge endowments. Harvard has something like a billion dollars. They can accept whoever they want.

          • Illidan Stormragge

            This may be true in your case but circumstances vary and on a macro level things that can get in the way do get in the way.

          • LHathaway

            When college is over and it comes to hiring time Every woman and person of color on this EARTH is eligible for resume’ to retirement affirmative action. Affirmative action doesn’t end with college admissions. Meanwhile, I suspect Asians also count as a diversity recruit at Most Universities that for whatever reason do Not have 3 to 20% Asians already.

  • Susannah

    If the Asians prevail, I’m sure this will ultimately result in even fewer Whites being admitted. The university certainly does not wish to enact any policy that would have the effect of scaling back the admission of blacks and Hispanics.

    • John Q. Taxpayer

      But…if there is one positive thing in this phenomenon it’s this: “You can’t please all the people all the time” is proving quite true when it comes to Demorat identity-based politics. Eventually the progressive coalition will have too many rent-seeking racial groups whose interests will be in opposition to each other.

      • pennawhytmn

        And when they figure that out and start trying to come back to whites, I hope we all flip them the bird. I don’t actually even hate Blacks, just As I don’t hate Lions, Rattlesnakes, Tatantulas, Piranhas, and so on. They just behave as nature has dictated they behave. It is the Liberal White Zookeepers that I despise and would like to see a great many of them fall victim to…………… well I’ll just say less than pleasurable experiences , and better yet if those “experiences” are at the hands of their beloved dark ones.

    • Illidan Stormragge

      No way in hell should Harvard be 12% black and 14% hispanic or so. Naturally,the numbers would be around 5% each, give or take. Asians would be 30% or so and the rest white.

    • Harvard Professor of Medicine

      Jews are in fact the most over-represented group, relative to their SAT scores, GPA and scholastic achievement. Look it up.

      • Henry Ford

        Yes. Jews are 2% of the population but 25% at the elite schools.

  • Caesar Avgvstvs

    Universities should go back to their original purpose: educating whites who have the drive and ability to profit from a higher education. The system wasn’t designed to educate foreigners. They have their own countries. Let them look after their own kind.

    • John Q. Taxpayer

      Spoken like a true cis-hetero-partriarchal, racist Roman. You best check your privilege 😉

    • dewdly

      The original purpose was to educate white men. There are thousands of white males with near perfect SAT scores, 4.0 grade point averages, extracurricular activities and non-academic skills who are rejected in favor of women, and minorities. If you subtract the Jews from white admissions the percentage of whites admitted to Harvard is only 16%. White males have a better cause of action than Asians.

      • listenupbub

        The women are doing better than the men, actually.

        • Pragmatia

          Could you qualify this further? I am interested to know what you mean more precisely.

          • listenupbub

            White males do not have better resumes than white females, and they are not being pushed aside for white females through affirmative action.

            White females dominate white males in high school, and perhaps even in college (only seen informal studies that show females also do better in college).

          • Pragmatia

            Okay, please provide sources for these claims.

            To be honest, this sounds like typical Marxist anti-male babble. I would not be surprised if these so-called “studies” exhibit blatant cherry-picking, disregard for controls, and misrepresentation of data.

          • Pragmatia

            Okay, please provide sources for these claims.

            To be honest, this sounds like typical Marxist anti-male babble. These sorts of so-called “studies” so often exhibit blatant cherry-picking, neglect for proper controls, misrepresentation of data, and biased conclusions that are not exclusively warranted.

          • listenupbub

            They really don’t. I do not know about SAT scores, but nearly anytime the grades of girls are stacked up against the grades of boys, the girls have more “A” students and fewer failures. It is a nearly universal fact that plays out in almost any fair school. I do not know everything about the education studies, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are bad ones given the crazies in education schools, but I’m sure there are good studies that show this. Common sense observation sure does.

            In my life, all the junior marshals at my high school were girls. I had the highest SAT, as far as I know.

            As Orwell said, some things are true even though the party says they are true.

          • Pragmatia

            It’s a shame that you have not provided sources. I would like to examine these studies.

            As far as you remember or know, was race a controlled factor? If not, I would understand how these claims would make sense. Other than that, I am thoroughly surprised. Men have consistently had a slightly higher average IQ for quite some time. Although, young males have undoubtedly been more influenced by the anti-intellectual norms and influences in today’s society.

            Also, I do not see how “common sense observation” would lead one to believe what you are claiming. Is this a sort of assertion of a putative female intellectual superiority?

            Anecdotes do not mean too much. I was the top of my class as well.

          • Pragmatia

            Also, certain companies do have gender-based quotas, especially for leadership positions. Saying that white males are not pushed aside for female hiring preferences is an outright fabrication.

          • listenupbub

            For management, maybe. At times it is certainly true, especially in tech and engineering. At other times, I expect the females are deserving.

            For University, the answer is no. Girls are better students than boys, hands down. This is the real Red Pill.

      • BleedALot

        This is true.

        Being new I did not know how to post links. This site has interesting info:
        http://affirmativeactionhoax -dot- com/corrections/ If whites put in as much time studying as Asians the gap would be narrower. But it seems whites put a gap of their own on Asians when it comes to getting away from rote learning. Asians are wired for that but start to lose ground when divergent thinking is required.

        Whites have a wider bell curve than Asians in IQ and also with the different wiring, being able to think outside the box and link ideas that seem unrelated, is why whites do better in the real world in situations where people would think Asians would succeed because they study 5 hrs a day:

        http://lagriffedulion-dot-f2s-dot-com/sft.htm
        Why Asians lag: http://www.lagriffedulion-dot-f2s-dot-com/sft2.htm

        Asians seem to have a very narrow bell curve in intelligence. Less idiots than whites but way less people on the right hand side too.

        • Spikeygrrl

          FWIW, women have a more narrow bell curve than men. Fewer gifties, but also fewer morons.

        • Lexonaut

          Excellent post.

      • Ultimate187

        So if Asians make up 20%, and Whites are 16%, then who’s the remaining 64%?

        • dewdly

          Jews with a scattering of Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and blacks.

      • 3G4Me

        These educational institutions were established by White men to educate White Christians for the pulpit. First the Christianity was removed, then the male aspect, and then the White aspect. Once any profession or institution or neighborhood has been colonized by others, Whites remove themselves to more comfortable (read ethnically coherent) pastures. Short of a violent reset (long overdue), Whites need to boycott all such mini-colonies. Harvard is already close to 50% Asian and Jewish. Why would any normal White wish to attend that overpriced indoctrination center? (and I speak as a long ago graduate of what once was a premier institution, now only fit for the dusky dregs of the multicultural sewer this nation has become).

    • Illidan Stormragge

      Foreigners bring in students from rich parents.

      • Spaniard in LA

        Exactly! Reminds me of Amy Chua’s list of successful groups. She forgets to mention that they already come with money and education.

    • Henry Ford

      Yes, our kids are being cheated out of their birthright. White people BUILT the elite schools and white kids should have preference.

  • Jason Lewis

    Get rid of all affirmative action nationwide and let things evolve on their own.

    • MooTieFighter

      Jason, That comment is simple, reasonable, and full of common sense. You need to go to the back of the line. These ideas are simply laughed at and criticized .

    • Lexonaut

      “Get rid of all affirmative action nationwide and let things evolve on their own.”

      That’s precisely what this Asian students lawsuit is about.

  • Steve_in_Vermont

    Is it ever in the back of your mind that if you go to a black professional (doctor, dentist, lawyer, and so on) that perhaps they came to this position due to affirmative action and graduated, not based on ability, but for other reasons?. I’ve watched more than a few students graduate from HS with abilities stuck at the 8th grade level. But their diploma looks just like the straight A student.

  • TomIron361

    I don’t give a rat’s behind about the problems of Orientals.

    • I care in part because it means we’re all getting jacked with here. My daughter has a free pass because of what her great-great grandfather did in 1944. I would have done it, too. For my family and my friends, oh very yes, and I would have signed my last letter to my superiors in my own blood, the way he did.

      The difference between him and a garden-variety Islamitard suicide bomber was that governments started the Pacific War. There was no religious question. Governments thus got to arrange a peace.

      With the current war, Islam must be completely defeated. This may mean total extermination. I will certainly not convert nor pay any tax.

      • TomIron361

        dumb reply…

      • Lexonaut

        “My daughter has a free pass because of what her great-great grandfather did in 1944. I would have done it, too.”

        Iwo Jima was their Alamo.

        • The Alamo was a terrible mistake, and the Texans were ordered to retreat.

          • Lexonaut

            Iwo Jima was a mistake in that sense. So was Pearl Harbor.

            They completely misread us. They thought they could force us to the negotiating table after which we would let them run rampant all over Asia — they were quite mistaken. Even Yamamoto said to the War Cabinet before Pearl Harbor, “I can promise you six months of victories but I don’t know what happens after that.”

            What happened after that was a US war aim of unconditional surrender by Japan. They never believed it, and even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki it took the intervention of the Emperor to save the nation from complete devastation.

            They could have surrendered at any time during the Pacific War and they would have been treated no worse than they were treated after the signing of the surrender documents in Tokyo Bay in September of 45. Many Japanese died pointlessly — and they made us kill them.

          • Japan refused to sign the 1936 London Naval Treaty. They gave plenty of advance notice, in March 1934. Since they could never match the US in ship building, I think they were committed to war by then. The US wanted peaceful trade with China, as we still do.

            The post-1936 Japanese military junta took their entire nation on a death march.

            I would never have given up under any circumstances. Pearl Buck accurately predicted this for them.

    • JohnnyMangoes

      Then don’t expect them to give a rats ass about you.

      What’s so funny about white nationalists is you really, really believe that whites are on your side. You think the average white guy is just so much better than the average person of color even if the white guy is shooting up schools and killing white children.

      It’s unbelievable. I actually do feel sorry for you people. As an Asian person if I saw a white guy who needed help I would give it to him.

      Shame on you.

      • Lexonaut

        You are a terrific argument for separation of the races, Mangoes, regardless of how it is to be achieved. The beauty of racial separation is that it makes questions of racial discrimination entirely irrelevant. Good racial fences make good racial neighbors.

        • JohnnyMangoes

          The races were separated a long time ago – then something called colonialism happened.

          • Lexonaut

            And then colonialism unhappened. The Brits are, I believe, the only imperial power to have voluntarily given up their empire. In contrast China is still occupying Tibet.

        • Caesar Avgvstvs

          It’s actually as simple as this- multiculturalism breeds racism.

          Whether it’s the minority groups in fear of the majority, or the majority fearing being made the minority is irrelevant.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            I’d probably agree with you on the need for separation. But in hindsight, racism existed before integration. The entire basis of colonialism was founded on the purported inferiority of other races.

          • 3G4Me

            The combination of a massive chip on your shoulder (regret that you are only half White) and massive arrogance (pride that you are half Asian) is quite stunning. Your cognitive dissonance is only eclipsed by your ignorance. Before you can even begin to opine on “colonialism,” perhaps you ought to study historical castes, Asian clans, professions reserved for certain groups, preference for fair skin centuries prior to Western exploration, just for a start.

            The only factual statement I can find in any of your comments is when you identify as an Asian – spot on. Half White means non-White. Other than to vent your perpetual grievances, you have no purpose at this site. One wonders what any mulatto’s purpose is in the wider world, as well, other than to sow confusion and discord.

          • Lexonaut

            “Other than to vent your perpetual grievances, you have no purpose at this site.”

            That’s a useful purpose. I began reading this site three years ago long before I became active as a commenter. It was the broad and sometimes heated debates on these issues that served as the source of my new information base, just as the Founders intended.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            Lol, and what’s the average white man’s purpose on the earth? Manifest destiny?

            This kind of egoism and the self centeredness and entitlement of the white psyche is alarming.

          • And you are half-white.

            As far as “entitlement” goes, I make fishing tackle. Should I be forced to give my next Tonkin bamboo rod up to some African who did none of it, even though I buy everything and do all of the work? The grips on my rods are bone, as my Jewish-Mexican neighbor is a butcher. Bone grips make for a stiffer, longer cast. I never use cork for grips: only bone. I gave Alex one for free. I machine the reels myself, too. Only stainless or brass.

            The product of my labor and money belongs only to me. The stuff I make will never break. That’s just the way I do things.

            Am I “entitled”?

            I live peacefully at home. I am entitled to live that way. I know of quite another way to do this.

          • What is the purpose of whites on earth? I regard the terraforming of Mars and Venus as that. Is this Manifest Destiny? I sure hope so!

          • He’s not a mulatto. A half-Oriental is a “Happa”.

            A half-Amerind is a Mestizo. A quarter-breed is a Castizo. At 3/16 injun, I am probably a Castizo.

            A cross between a black and an Amerind is a Zambo, like Hugo Chavez.

          • Lexonaut

            “The entire basis of colonialism was founded on the purported inferiority of other races.”

            Wrong. It was based on the notion of “higher use” as in real estate taxation. The colonial nations needed the raw materials that the colonized nations weren’t using. In return the people of the colonies got jobs building the extraction infrastructure, and they used their wages to purchase goods and services from the colonial nations that they could never have come up with on their own — or they already would have.

            Who in his right mind would go to the effort that the colonial nations did just to prove that a different group of people is inferior? The colonized people often were in fact inferor, but that wasn’t the motivation behind colonialism.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            Hate to break it to you but the non white races are fully aware that you think they’re inferior. Now with the shift in power and then far outnumbering you, continuing to flagrantly push for this isn’t going to do you any good.

            In fact I believe AmRen is just a soft white nationalism for the people too afraid to scream “white power” and be promptly cut off from society if not physically harmed. It’s really a 9-1 shot.

            Aside from old men (no offense) from posting on the Internet, your children and your children’s children are in all likelihood going to be normal people who accept others for who they are. I’ve seen enough white grandpas pushing mulatto babies around to believe this.

            Unless you think of some masterful plan to revive the third reich, it seems like a massive waste of time and probably the best way for you to maintain some semblance of meaning and purpose in your sunset years. I know because my dad gets more and more extreme about God and right wing politics as he gets older. He’s being phased out of existence.

          • Lexonaut

            “Hate to break it to you but the non white races are fully aware that you think they’re inferior.”

            I think Chinese, Japanese and Koreans make the best electrical engineers in the world. I think that sub-Saharan Africans are, basically, a crime against nature, as are the Abos in Australia. I think that white folks are the most creative people in the world when it comes to technical and business innovation, as well as prudent risk taking.

            “In fact I believe AmRen is just a soft white nationalism …”

            That’s one way of looking at it. Most people here want separation of the races, the question being how best to achieve it. As I said yesterday, good racial fences make good racial neighbors.

            If separation of the races ultimately requires a white ethnostate then, eventually, that’s what will happen. And oh by the way, whites have shown themselves to be very good at dominating other nations using relatively small numbers of troops and administrators. Asians keep forgetting that lesson, maybe they should try harder to remember it.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            You’re really not going to make many friends like this. On top of whites bring outnumbered the number of non autistic non racist whites is much higher.

          • We’re here to rationally discuss important issues. Friendships sometimes happen as a result, but it isn’t necessary. What is involved here is discipline for a common goal.

          • Lexonaut

            I’m not here to make friends.

            I’m a writer, and writers must write. They also need to know that people have read their stuff and reacted to it. It doesn’t matter whether the reactions to my stuff are positive or negative.

            Why doesn’t it matter? The example is more clearly seen with artists, many of whom have the following attitude …

            This is my art. It’s what I do. I need to know that you’ve seen it and reacted to it. However, I’m not responsible for the interpretation you put on my work, nor do I care about it. Furthermore, I really don’t care what your assessment of value is because only other artists are qualified to judge my work — and even then I know more about my own art than anybody else in the world.

          • I don’t think my wife is inferior. I don’t think my daughter is inferior. Ariadne was deliberate, rather than some sort of “accident”. My mother loves them both as well. She’s a happy grandma. If my ex-father was not so completely evil, even he’d like them.

            He is “white” in the North American sense, but completely beyond hope.

          • Lexonaut

            I don’t think my quarter-Sioux grandchildren are inferior either. In fact, my 15-year-old quarter-Sioux granddaughter was hired by Chick-fi-Lay on the spot at a job interview last week and will start as soon as school lets out I won’t say it to her but I’ve told her father — my son — that I will be surprised if she hasn’t been made a shift manager by the end of the summer, even at the tender age of 15.

            Negros value “high yellow” mixes. Poor Mangoes seems to be bothered by being neither fish nor fowl.

          • Lexonaut

            Agreed.

      • Pragmatia

        “You think the average white guy is just so much better than the average person of color even if the white guy is shooting up schools and killing white children.”

        Unfortunately, I must burst your delusional bubble. The average white male is not shooting up schools and killing white children. You are either dishonest, a moron, or a dishonest moron.

        And please don’t embarrass yourself by attempting to worm your way out of having claimed that. You were clearly referring to the average of the two races, even if only through implication.

  • Luca D.

    Attention Asians! On your admissions application check the box that says “African-American.” Doors will magically open for you. Problem solved.

    • Illidan Stormragge

      Asians actually have recently campaigned and won to be classified as blacks in South Africa to benefit from AA policies.

      • “Asian” is a confusing term. In Britain, “Asians” are Pakistani and Indians. Especially the former are known to be of low IQ, high violence, plus of Muslim pathologies. Very different from South East Asians, Chinese, Korean, Japanese.

        So in South Africa, I believe it is darker skinned Indians. Do they have Chinese there too?

    • Ultimate187

      Vijay Chokal-Ingam actually did that when he applied to medical schools. He also took it one step further by deliberately changing his appearance to see if he could fool admissions officers. It was a recent, widely publicized story, and now he’s writing a book about his experience.

  • Tom_in_Miami

    I often have a hard time believing we are still on the rung of the ladder where you have to prove the superior groups are being discriminated against. They ought to start the argument with agreement that inferior groups are being admitted ahead of smarter, harder-working groups. It’s strange that we pretend otherwise.

  • dd121

    There’s been a number of articles written about this the past 30 years. Usually with the tone of “isn’t it wonderful how much we’re helping blacks”. I don’t like it either. I hope they win.

    • LHathaway

      I believe you’re mistaken, DD. Wherever it is they most use affirmative action, the more the public face being presented is that Whites are discriminating, and that’s wrong and evil.

      • dd121

        It just seems like a lot of people suck up to negroes.

  • how about this

    “The complaint alleges that Harvard, as well as other Ivy League colleges, deny Asian-American applicants with “almost perfect” SAT scores, “top 1% GPAs,” and “significant awards or leadership positions” in extracurricular activities, while similar applicants of other races have been admitted.”

    “Similar” is bending over backwards to be polite about it. The Blacks admitted certainly aren’t similar; they are far below that level. They are admitted with SAT scores 280 points lower than the average Asian admitted (230 points lower than the Whites), if I remember correctly.

    • Blackfish

      Exhibit A: Michelle Obama, who went to Princeton and Harvard Law School. Hardly someone I would think of an intellectual or even intelligent.

      • HE2

        I heard Moochelle interviewed on NPR some time back.
        Her spontaneous rhetorical skills are about middle school level. Syntax, grammar, sentence structure, plus her circular, illogical expressive style is stereotypically negro.
        And, every other word was uh, um, er, just as her dear husband’s when he is not reading from the prompter.

  • mgs166

    “Sixty-four Asian-American groups”

    While us Whites can’t even have ONE.

  • Jon Doe

    its actually mind boggling how 5% of the population make up 30-40% of all tech/medical/research/business/banking jobs and obviously a victim of their own success. while another 14% of the population requires every special treatment in the book and still cannot in any way attain meaningful form of success. very telling.

    • MooTieFighter

      When will we wake up and realize this experiment is a total failure. We spend more every year for this group and it is always a lost investment. We are finances our own suffering and destruction.

    • listenupbub

      It is not mind boggling that Asians in America are successful.

      A good chunk of the smartest 2% of Asians get smart and realize that they can move to America and live in bigger houses, and get their dream jobs.

      Our Asian population is composed of the smartest Asians and the crazy, desperate Asians at the nail salons and restaurants.

      We do not just have a bunch of random old Asians moving to America to just work as laborers. We have graduates of Tsinghua and other top universities in China who come to America for grad school and get jobs here afterwards because their standard of living will be better here than in China.

      • I have had my boots resoled by an elderly Korean fellow. He does shoes, and that’s all he does. It is good work, and he didn’t steal anyone’s job; there was nobody else in my area that does that. He’s only a mile away. He put Vibram soles on my old East German officer’s jackboots. I’m probably the only one in the world who has those. The quality of his work is totally amazing.

  • superlloyd

    The whole racist AA fraud and scam needs to be dismantled forthwith. I hope this leads to that outcome.

    • Illidan Stormragge

      It will not. I think affirmative action will always exist one way or another.

      • LHathaway

        This is incorrect, after white men are denied, ‘affirmative action’, too, AA will begin to end for everyone else. At this point ‘everyone else’ consists of everyone on Earth who is not a White man.

        • Blackfish

          It’s a lawsuit. Do you really think that a judge in this country will strike down affirmative action? I think it’s VERY unlikely.

          • LHathaway

            I was speaking in a general sense. I was speaking of a day when, in this country, there will be no affirmative action. Obviously, that day won’t be any times soon, but, as I said, I do believe that day is coming in the US. This is one positive note among all the doom and gloom sayers (of one I am myself). Admittedly, far off in the future, as White become a very small voting block, affirmative action could start up again. I would guess that time would be no sooner than 70 years from now at the very soonest. Just a guess. It won’t be any time soon after White men are denied affirmative action, too, (and affirmative action ends) that any kind of affirmative action is brought back. Then again, Whites will have their own country in NA by then. I’m going with the incredibly optimistic year of the presidential election of 2044. So at that point, with such large changes anything could happen. I’m just discussing NA. What other nations do who knows?

    • Very wishful thinking.

      If courts compare Asian college admission test scores with Black and Hispanic scores, I wonder what explanation they will come up with. Did Hispanics suffer more from slavery than Asians? Do Asians have a historic debt to Blacks because of slavery?

      Maybe the result will be less discrimination against Asians, and thus even less spaces for Whites. After all, Caucasians are to blame for slavery and microagressions

      • Lexonaut

        ” Do Asians have a historic debt to Blacks because of slavery?”

        Asians have been in the USA longer than my (white) people have so the answer is yes … or something.

  • MBlanc46

    I’m outraged that there are this many Asians in the US. However, as I dislike AA even more than I like the Asian invasion, for the moment the enemies of my enemies are my friends.

    • Illidan Stormragge

      There aren’t that many. They are only 5% of the population, according to wikipedia, and this number includes Indians and Filipinos. The reason you see so many around in education and other places is because, like Jews, they have a good degree of intelligence and are highly urbanized.

      • MBlanc46

        And I live in an urban area, in which they’re probably over-represented. Nonetheless, I wish they were considerably less numerous than they are.

    • John Kar

      Asians don’t belong here, but at only 5% of the population and with limited population growth, they’re at the bottom of my concern list. There are bigger, more serious issues like radical Islam and violent darker races.
      Asians can be dealt with after the larger threats are removed.

      • LackawannaErie

        They are more than 5% now and growing faster than hispanics. There is another group that is only 2% and has caused untold damage to America.

      • JohnnyMangoes

        LMAO Asians don’t belong where? The same country you stole from Native Americans?

        How do you plan to deal with them? If you even laid a finger on my wife, the people I care about, or the people that are just living their lives the SAME WAY you are living your life, I would destroy you.

        You people are genocidal, sick maniacs. Do you listen to yourselves?

        • Stole? I’m 3/16 Amerind. Does this mean I should go 13/16 of the way back to Europe? That would put me (maybe) in the Azores, but I don’t speak any Portuguese.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            So by that logic American Asians should be deported back to their homelands as well?

          • You were the buttmunch who brought up “stealing” countries. Try harder, grasshopper, as your forum-fu is weak.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            How is it working out that you hate Asians but your own children are Asian?

            You people are the ones creating Elliot Rodgers. No wonder he snapped.

          • Lexonaut

            “How is it working out that you hate Asians but your own children are Asian?”

            How is it working out that you hate whites but are half white yourself? Is there any greater burden in this world than self loathing?

          • JohnnyMangoes

            Actually, no, I use the privilege of being able to speak my mind the a great gift. If I can even call things like they really are while looking the way I do – I consider that a winning victory. Part of being mixed race isn being able to be objective. Of course, objectivity isn’t AmRen or Stormfront’s strong point.

            Example: blatant ignorance of history.

          • Lexonaut

            “Of course, objectivity isn’t AmRen or Stormfront’s strong point.”

            I dropped in on Stormfront a couple of times and left because it’s a combination white supremacist and white nationalist site, neither of which appeal to me. Jared Taylor’s goals for the AmRen site, as I understand them, are quite different.

            As I see it Jared Taylor’s message is entirely about objectivity regarding the races. This includes recognizing that the very factors that cause whites to declare themselves superior to blacks and Hispanics should (should) cause us to acknowledge the superiority of Asians and Jews when those same criteria are applied.

            Many AmRen commenters don’t accept this but they don’t set site policy, nor do I.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            Oh.

            I agree that people tend to prefer their own races. Why wouldn’t they? On top of that people self segregate within races according to interests and appearance. Intraracially or interacially people are people.

            It’s very dangerous to judge people on their appearance, despite how much it would seem that races follow certain trends. I actually posted seriously on this site years ago. Since then after meeting new people my perspectives changed.

          • Lexonaut

            “It’s very dangerous to judge people on their appearance.”

            I take people as individuals. However, if I know nothing about them then I tend to rely on racial stereotypes because those tend to contain a great deal of statistical truth.

            I would like to be a better person. However, 71-3 = 68 years of trying to behave as if we’re all equal has taught me the folly of that approach. So, today I don’t care if people call me an evil white racist. They no longer influence my thinking. All they can make me do is pay taxes.

          • Why are you complaining about looking the way you do? I’m 3/16 Amerind, so I only have to shave two or three times a week. I have fair skin, brown hair and grey eyes, so I pass for a Celt. I have probably saved a lot of money on razor blades, and I tan quickly. Cowboy-up and get used to it.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            You’re dropping racist comments, while being married to an Asian woman.

            Your daughter is going to be JUST fine.

    • LackawannaErie

      No they are not. They are not even trying to end AA, only change how it works so it only penalizes whites and not Asians.

    • JohnnyMangoes

      Why? Do your people own American soil?

      What’s your plan? Exterminate little Asian children, as per usual?

      White people really show their true colors at times. I wouldn’t put it past you folks to even start considering killing women and children – that’s the white way, after all.

      • I would be willing to do whatever is necessary and take all the blame later on. Since you are new here, my wife is Japanese and we have a very fine daughter who will never marry a libtard.

        Because I’d kill him.

        • JohnnyMangoes

          Jesus. My dad was a “white nationalist” too who was also an Asiaphile married to a Chinese woman.

          I went with the white nationalist crap for a while until I realized that you people literally have no qualms with killing innocent civilians on the other side of the world just because they look different form you.

          By the way, Eurasian sons and daughters have a terrible, terrible time growing up. Aside from the sons being emasculated by their own mothers (and fathers), the women often rebel EXTREMELY hard – and there are way more Eurasian female adult stars than there are fully Asian stars. Look up Kelly Bathazar, for example.

          • Lexonaut

            “… there are way more Eurasian female adult stars than there are fully Asian stars.”

            Mangoes, this is really going to hurt but most Americans don’t care about groups of people who don’t constitute a sizable fraction of the population. Most of the time it’s simply indifference, not hatred. That’s why we’re not on the warpath against Tibetans even though their consuming rancid yak butter strikes us as appalling.

            If there are more Eurasian women on TV than fully Asian women it would be because a) the mixes tend to be very beautiful, and b) it’s a twofer for when the hounds of anti-white-Christian-males hatred come sniffing around the production companies.

            We spend a lot of time worrying about blacks because they are simultaneously a threat to civilization, very dangerous to be around, and present among us in large numbers. Most of us don’t know anything more about northeast Chinese culture than you do about Russians, nor do we care, nor are we required to.

            Thank you for misunderstanding what Michael Christopher Scott was saying. If a bunch of reddit people come here to do battle, some of them will learn something.

          • JohnnyMangoes

            By “adult stars” I meant porn stars. I figured most people here are too sensitive about that though.

          • GAWZ

            ‘ASIA’ is a huge place. People from Indonesia are not the same as people from Kazakhstan.

          • We don’t hate you for that. I certainly do not. I would rather convince you that you are mistaken. Eurasians are not half-orcs, hated by both parent races. I once hated being alive, and the only reason I didn’t kark myself was because it would hurt my mother. I still ran through machinegun fire in 1991. I was so angry back then that I had to chew on a wet rag during the battle. I couldn’t hold down food or even water. It felt like I was living through my own death, and the only thing left to me was not letting anyone down.

            The feds were really nice and gave me a free, but mandatory psychiatrist later on. I really liked Justin Lincoln, but he may have acquired PTSD talking with me.

            You are not unwanted or loathed. To some extent, Eurasians have the best features of both parent races. If your parents loved each other, then you are the result, and nobody can change that.

        • JohnnyMangoes

          I just re-read your comment. So you’re legitimately willing and ready to exterminate little children.

          Shame on you, just shame on you. I do honestly hope that someone harms your family in the same way that you wish to harm others.

          You’re a psychopath and I can already predict your Eurasian children on drugs or doing interracial porn.

          I’m sharing your comment reddit’s /r/hapas for everyone to see.

          How is that working out, by the way? Being racist against Asians but having an Asian wife and daughter?

          • Diana Moon Glampers

            You should calm down. Your screechy overreaction and assumptions mean that people here will not take any of your comments seriously.

            Go work out your white daddy issues somewhere else and let the grown ups talk.

          • I am not racist at all against northeast Asians. I’d lay down in traffic for my family. Everyone knows I’d do that, as well. My old sergeant back in 1991 knew I would do anything that could be done by a man, and absolutely relied upon me. I was scared, but I believed in a free Croatia: free from Communist Serb rapists. I liked playing with land mines and unexploded ordnance. What is better than an anti-personnel mine? An AP mine set on top of an anti-tank mine with a 500kg aircraft bomb underneath them. Having an enemy platoon’s point man turned into a thin, red mist is apparently very demoralizing. I was also a big fan of det cord.

            Your comment is amusing in one respect, however. Why is it “cool” when blacks use the phrase “by any means necessary”, while when a white ex-con, ex-merc says essentially the same thing, it is horrendously threatening? I haven’t threatened to hurt Asians. I am simply very good at doing things that seem important to me.

            My daughter is a serious stargazer, and has appropriated my old college astronomy textbooks and my old Royal Air Force “skysearch” binoculars. I’ll get hit up for a decent telescope someday. I made her a radio-controlled pterosaur (battery powered, it flaps its wings) a few years ago, and she still flies the hell out of it. She can recover it from an inverted flat spin, but I taught her about inverted flat spins playing Red Baron 3D on one of the old PCs here that runs Win-98. She’s not as good a pilot as I am, but only one guy I’ve ever met is better: Glenn Gordon, a Scots-Irish-Ukranian. I can land anything in almost any condition. The red-tailed hawk in the area chases the toy, but the ravens no longer do.

            I am glad you are sharing my comments. As for my being an alleged “psychopath”, I make fishing tackle now. I had only three genuine enemies in life. One – Martin Selch – died last summer in a bicycle accident in Washington state. Another – Robert Rowe – is eight years into a life sentence for raping children, and the third, my ex-father is so full of cancer that even his tumors have suspicious growths.

            I suspect you are projecting.

          • Red

            Mr. Scott, you do not owe this misguided soul any explanation but I do hope he posts about you and Amren on whatever site he sees fit. Your comments are always on spot.

          • I would rather convince him that he is tragically mistaken.

      • MBlanc46

        Cry me a river.

  • listenupbub

    The fact is that Asians are really not that discriminated against compared to whites, especially non-Jewish whites. This is true based on resumes and SAT scores.

    As far as these resumes and SAT scores go, everyone knows, and the adcoms know, that Asians spend WAY more time studying the SAT (like 200 hours, no joke). Now, I am not that smart a guy, but I decided to study for the GRE for two hours a day for a week, and I pulled out a near-perfect score. I missed something on the math section. And the GRE is harder than the SAT.

    So you can boost an SAT score by a good 200-300 points, easy. Some tutoring agencies have some weird algorithms and formulas for guessing reading comp. questions right that you do not even understand. The test can be hacked, and Asians spend entire summers hacking it.

    As far as accomplishments, I knew one of these Asians who was rejected from Harvard with great scores and crap. He ended up getting suspended in college for cheating on a genetics test. He had a reputation for cheating in high school. So between this and SAT studying, the resumes overinflate ability. Ability is very important, as is work ethic. Whites demonstrate great work ethic (often in defferent ways than SAT tutoring), and basically the same aptitude.

    Basically, Asians just can’t complain. A person can get a great living with any good degree from a state university. People from the hundredth ranked colleges get into top grad schools and med schools in America if they have a good record.

    Asians should be thankful that our country allows them to exploit our wealth at all.

    • JohnnyMangoes

      “Asians should be thankful that our country allows them to exploit our wealth at all.”

      If Asian factories just decided to stop selling to Americans (because they realized you’re savagely racist genocidal creeps), the American economy would collapse in a fortnight.

      Do you actually read what you’re writing?

      • Caesar Avgvstvs

        You say all this and yet it’s Western countries that are the only ones who’ve even embraced diversity nonsense entirely at our detriment.

        When’s the first non-Chinese person becoming a member of the CCP? Until that day comes people living in China shouldn’t even bother lecturing us on human rights given your unwanted occupation of Xinjiang, Tibet and all the rest.

        • I hope the PLA does its job more thoroughly in Xinjiang.

          “Islam in a man is like rabies in a dog.”
          – Winston Churchill

      • I am a savagely racist genocidal ex-con, but not a creep.

      • LackawannaErie

        America was better off economically before we had any goods made in Asian factories. Go away, you are not one of us and not wanted here.

        • JohnnyMangoes

          The history of white imperialists can be summed up with: “Go away, you’re not one of us and not wanted here.”

          Staggering hypocrisy. I wonder if you people have any friends at all.

  • LHathaway

    64 Asian American groups came together on this issue alone and yet not one White United Student group at Harvard. Not one White group of any kind even affiliated with Harvard in any way. Sometimes diversity is vitally important. Some times it’s just too much work, and in fact it must be actively fought against.

  • John Smith

    This Duke professor is being forced out for his comments on the Asian/Negro minority experience dichotomy:

    http://www[dot]foxnews[dot]com/us/2015/05/19/duke-professor-responds-to-criticism-about-online-comments-made-regarding/

    His hateful remarks:

    “Every Asian student has a very simple old American first name that
    symbolizes their desire for integration,” he wrote on May 10. “Virtually
    every black has a strange new name that symbolizes their lack of desire
    for integration.”

    “I am strongly against the obsession with ‘sensitivity,'” Hough wrote.
    “The more we have emphasized sensitivity in recent years, the worse race
    relations have become. I think that is not an accident. I know that the
    60 years since the Montgomery bus boycott is a long time, and things
    must be changed. The Japanese and other Asians did not obsess with the
    concentration camps and the fact they were linked with blacks as
    ‘colored.’”

    • Diana Moon Glampers

      Another leftist falls off the bandwagon and is run over by the wheel.

  • LackawannaErie

    Remember that any increase in Asian enrollment will come at the expense of whites only. Blacks, Hispanics, Jews and Muslims are not going to allow their numbers to shrink.

    This is nothing for whites to cheer. When whites had an anti-affirmative action movement back in the 90’s, they only talked about meritocracy for all and never white interests. They even had a “black”(mixed race) leader namer Ward Connerly. The often expressed concern for Asians. But Asians didn’t get involved. Asian leaders at that point almost all supported affirmative action. This new drive is coming not from Asian-Americans, but from recent immigrants who are hungry for more power and money. People who are totally unassimilated and not Americans at all.

    • JohnnyMangoes

      You mean like the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, and the British that came before them? The exact same people that “refused” to assimilate and were savagely assaulted by the same groups that came before them?

  • Ultimate187

    It has long been suspected that Asian admissions at Harvard is capped around 20%. Perhaps most incriminating is evidence that a year when more Asians were admitted was directly followed by a year when significantly fewer are admitted. They’re right though. If admissions were completely race-blind, then Asian enrollment would almost assuredly be more than 21%. Of course this also means that Black, Hispanic and Native enrollment would effectively drop to zero.

  • Albert

    Now Asians in the U.S. are beginning to feel our pain. If you outperform blacks, you are to be summarily punished.

    • HE2

      Just as mestizos, somalis, et al, they still vote wealth distribution liberal Democratic, with good reason.
      Once here, Asians, no matter how high status, bring in their tax dependent elder parents, other family members, translating to their wish for continued gibs programs.
      I used to see them as patients. No English, no medical history, often test positive for Asian endemic hep B, sometimes C, no health insurance other than gibs, cultivated entitlement mentality though no possibility for meaningful societal contribution. They receive a free ride.

  • Hilis Hatki

    The sword does have two edges

  • JohnnyMangoes

    I think you guys are missing something else with this. There simply isn’t enough room in universities because of the hyperbolically increasing population, both (yes) among whites and among Asians, though China / Japan / HK have the LOWEST birth rate in the worlds, even compared to western countries and even compared to the US.

    You’re talking about a handful (7 Ivies + 25 other very good schools) with limited space to take in an applicant pool chosen from around millions. Yeah, Asians are getting rejected but that’s probably because there are simply too many people applying. Same with white people – there are still 180 million whites in the US with an applicant pool of probably a few million across all schools.

    In this case I’m critical of Asians in assuming that they HAVE a right to get into the top schools just because of their grades when it’s clear that Universities have to maintain at least a semblance of racial diversity (which includes whites, blacks, and Hispanics, yes). The system should be meritocratic yeah, but because of supply and demand, there are simply not enough good schools to go around for the global population at this point, so in this case affirmative action for top black students might be acceptable – at least I’m open to argument on this. Either new schools open up or there is a changing of the old guard where the Ivies lose their appeal and lesser known schools can pick up the slack on different ethnic groups as well.

    • John Kar

      And why is it necessary for colleges to have racial diversity?

      There wasn’t a single black or Hispanic person in my Topology class and there wasn’t any lack of “creativity” or “looking at problems another way”.

      Let’s be honest here. The only reason why institutions or companies like diversity is because of federal and state tax breaks and/or funding. All the “minorities help us bring new perspective” bullshit is nothing but political rhetoric. It’s all about tax breaks and funding from the government for having a certain amount of blacks and Hispanics in the student body.

  • Pat Boyle

    I used to teach Data Communications at a local college. I once mentioned the problem of discrimination against the Chinese at colleges and universities to a faculty colleague . He was Chinese.

    He forgave them. He said that without a discrimination policy the whole Computer Science student body at the University of California at Berkeley would soon be Chinese. He wasn’t worried about his fellow Chinese – as well he might. The Chinese are doing fine at Berkeley in the computer subjects.

  • GAWZ

    There’s always MLK U with the ever popular Professor Grundy. It’s cheaper than Harvard and offers the same courses in Die-ver-sit-ee and stuff.

  • slobotnavich

    Whatever the endless debate about SAT scores there’s no denying that East Asians in general are intelligent and highly adaptable people. Admiral Peary kicked open the doors to Japan in 1856. Japan was then a feudal and barely iron-age society. Less than fifty years later they wiped out the entire Tsarist fleet at the naval battle of the Straits of Tsushima. Today, and for the past fifty years, after being bombed, fire-bombed, and nuked practically back into the Stone Age in WW II, they are among the foremost industrial powers in the world and world leaders in all manner of high products. More recently little Vietnam fought us to a draw, using only light infantry, mortars, and small arms. East Asians in general are highly productive and intelligent people. They make good friends and formidable enemies.