Muslim Prayers in Church of England Parish

John Bingham, Telegraph, March 13, 2015

A Church of England vicar is facing a storm of protest from traditionalist Christians after allowing a Muslim prayer service to be held in his church.

Dozens of Muslims took part in the “Inclusive Mosque” event at St John’s church, Waterloo in central London, in what is thought to have been the first time a full Islamic prayer service has been held within the Church of England.

The vicar, the Rev Canon Giles Goddard, a prominent liberal cleric, joined in the event, reading a passage from the Bible and inviting the congregation to give thanks to “the God that we love, Allah”.

Canon Goddard, described the service, on Saturday, as “very moving” and said it was simply an expression of the church’s desire to offer people a “place to pray”.

But evangelical clerics were angered by the service which they said marked a breach with canon law which forbids any variation from the official liturgy if it contains “any departure from, the doctrine of the Church of England in any essential matter”.

It was also “offensive” to Christians being persecuted for their faith around the world, they said.

It came amid growing anger from evangelicals in the local Diocese of Southwark within the over what some claim amounts to a liberal take-over. Around 60 clerics have signed a joint declaration to the Bishop of Southwark, the Rt Rev Christopher Chessun voicing concern at what they see as a shift away from Biblical teaching on issues such as sexuality.

They singled out St John’s for particular criticism over the fact that it holds “thanksgiving” services for same-sex civil partnerships and marriages.

Canon Goddard was approached by a group called the Inclusive Mosque Initiative, which allows both women and men to lead worship, to host the event to mark International Women’s Day.

“I said ‘yes, of course, come’ not realising that this would be controversial,” he said.

“We are offering a place for people to pray so it made absolutely perfect sense … we should be offering places to pray, we are the Church of England.”

He rejected claims it was a breach of canon law as the event was not officially a Church of England service.

“They could have gone to a community centre I suppose, but they loved being in a church, they were just really pleased and delighted to have the welcome and it was very moving really,” he said.

“It is the same God, we share a tradition.”

During the service a traditional call to prayer was issued by a man before the main worship was led by a Muslim woman, Dr Amina Wadud.

At the end Canon Goddard read part of Psalm 139, telling the congregation: “This is from the Hebrew scripture … we all share these great traditions, so let us celebrate our shared traditions, by giving thanks to the God that we love, Allah.”

The Rev Stephen Kuhrt, Vicar of Christ Church, New Malden, south west London, said: “I am appalled by Islamophobia and when people whip up an anti-Muslim frenzy but the vicar of St John’s Waterloo has done something that is completely illegal, which is to allow an Islamic service to be held in his church and then he has participated as well.

“It is no way to handle the complex issue of how to relate to Muslims to hold an Islamic service [in a church] – that would never happen in a Mosque.”

The Rev Robin Weekes, minister of Emmanuel Church in Wimbledon, and a former missionary said: “The issue is not primarily that canon law has been broken, which it has, but that it is offensive to Christians who believe that there is only one God, who is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

“And it is especially offensive to those who are being persecuted around the world for their faith in the uniqueness of Jesus Christ.”

A spokeswoman for the Diocese of Southwark said: “We are aware of some concerns surrounding the event at St John’s Waterloo held for International Women’s Day.

“The Bishop of Kingston is in conversation with the parish priest in order to ascertain exactly what took place.”

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  • This is how the muslims dominate and eventually control the formerly Christian West. They do it incrementally while putting on their best Taqiyya faces. The level of betrayal to the British people by this liberal cleric, including complete apostasy from his professed adherence to Christianity is staggering!

    Know this, however, the Church of England and many large Protestant denominations are filled with these type of clerics. They put on a big show of ‘love and tolerance toward all’ while denying every historical and cardinal doctrine of the Christian faith.

    • LHathaway

      “They put on a big show of ‘love and tolerance toward all'”

      Except for White men. Whites must be watched, legislated against, educated about and constrained. Who says the churn no longer believes in original sin? They still do. They are just selective as to who they believe is guilty.

      • George Moriarty

        I believe this farce was associated with International Woman’s Day, enough said.
        Now I just wonder what the response would have been if the parish had invited some local Muslim women to say a morning tea and bible study, as in “come and be part of our society, hear what the Bible is all about, after all you chose to come and live in a Christian nation”

        • Speedy Steve

          That’s the spirit!

        • John Smith

          Extremely ironic, since islam is the worst enemy women have.

          • George Moriarty

            #John Smith,
            Many years ago a dear family friend was a nurse/missionary in a Middle East country, the local Arab women used to love to attend her clinic. But gradually more and more restrictions were put on the clinic regarding any mention of Christianity and eventually women who attended the clinic risked being whipped or stoned for talking to Christians. The clinic was eventually closed down in the interest the safety of its workers.

    • Speedy Steve

      The priest ought to be defrocked.

      • David Ashton

        Ooooh, don’t be saucy!

        • George Moriarty

          Its an ecclesiastical term!

          • David Ashton

            I know that, of course, but the degrees of femininity and even homosexuality in the High and Middle ranks of the clergy have long been notorious. One of the funniest front-covers of the satirical magazine “Private Eye” had a previous Arch of Cant, with his curls, and two fellow-ecclesiastics, all in priestly dress, with the caption,”Who needs women priests when you’ve got us?”

        • Speedy Steve

          Haha. The priest wears clerical garb as a badge of office. If a panel of bishops find a priest unworthy of the uniform, then they have the right to cast him from his official duties. In the Orthodox church it happens several times a year, but I doubt any English bishops have the gonads.

          • Reynardine

            “The priest wears clerical garb as a badge of office.”

            And not much under it else. Or, so I’ve heard some choir-boys say.

          • Sick of it

            Woah, they still have male bishops in the Church of England?

          • David Ashton

            Lesbians and male lesbian lookalikes.

            The deterioration of religion with gender confusion is partly the result of therapy and chatter (the distaff side) replacing Mass and Mission (the spear side).

    • TrueNorthFree

      Radical Islam in the West must be stopped.

      • Phoenixian Westernia

        > image
        I say cheers to that.

      • listenupbub

        Cool image, I gave it an upvote.

        I disagree, though. The reality is that it is not the fear of retaliation that motivates these anti-Islamophobic and anti-Christian people, it is white guilt.

        • TrueNorthFree

          Actually, regarding the nasty “white guilt” meme currently infecting many whites, I agree.

    • TF

      You won’t see this type of behaviour among Protestant groups in the American South or among Afrikaners in South Africa. I see this as a Western and Northern European problem, that their societies are so far gone that you see things like this.

    • Sick of it

      It all starts in the seminary.

    • winn sutanto

      Few years ago, Reverend Ravi Zacharia from Canada said that Europeans have rejected the religion that gives them a freedom to choose (i.e. Christianity).
      So willingly or unwillingly, they must submit to the religion that will NOT give them a freedom to choose (i.e. Islam).
      You shall reap what you have sown.

    • winn sutanto

      Jesus will not force His way to anybody if he or she rejects Him.
      But Allah of Islam, and those fundamentalist muslim clerics WILL force their teachings to you, whether you are willing or unwilling to accept it.
      The Europeans mock Jesus. And they shall pay the price.
      And as we know the price they MUST pay is to submit to Allah of Islam

      • Anna Tree

        Indeed, “prophet” mohamed’s allah is not the Jewish or Christian god: allah existed before
        islam but he wasn’t Yaveh or the Lord father of Jesus, he was the
        moon-god, one of the 365 idols of the polytheist kaabah, the moon-god,
        father of 3 goddesses Al-at, Al-uzza, and Al-manat (were also in the
        kaaba). For example, “prophet” mohamed’s father was not a muslim and his
        name was abdul’allah, slave of allah, the mood-god.
        No Jews or Christians ever prayed in the kaabah, only
        the Arab pagans.

        God in Arabic is illah, you can confirm by
        traducting the shahada often said by muslims: “There is no illah (god)
        but allah and mohamed is his prophet”, the first half of the sentence is
        said in Arabic as “la illah ila allah”.

        Now true that
        Non-muslims are sometimes forced by muslims to say allah when they want
        to say god (and sometimes like in one instance in Indonesia in the last
        year or so, they are forbidden to say allah when they want to speak
        about their god, in that case the Christian god). That is done to force
        them to accept that allah is god. As you may know, Christians and Jews
        under islam are dhimmis, 3rd class citizen that must be subdued by
        muslims, accept allah as god and pay the jiziyah, a
        protection-racket-tax as a punishment to not convert to islam. All the
        other Non-muslims have to be killed, enslaved or convert by force. The
        support to my claim is in many verses of the koran, included 9:5 “Kill
        the
        non-believers WHEREVER they are found, AND UNTIL there is no religion
        but for allah”. Pay attention to the words I capitalized: there is no
        limit in geography nor in time: jihad has to be done everywhere and
        anytime until islam controls the world.

        The fact remains that the
        god of the jews was quite revengeful and is repeatedly called the god
        of the jews, Jesus was loving, merciful and forgiving and allah is
        bloodthirsty and speaks/writes only the Kuraish, an Arabic dialect
        spoken today by only thousands, and is as per islam the warder of hell
        where he will torture forever and ever all the Non-muslims and bad
        muslims by pouring boiling oil on their skin and throat (hell was a
        place outside of Jerusalem where garbage was thrown, that is there is no
        hell in Judaism) etc etc etc

        There are many differences between
        those three gods, it doesn’t matter if the Christians claims yaveh as their
        own and then the muslims did it too, they have made each
        new reincarnation of that biblical god into their image.

        Just
        because different people call their gods God (or say it is the same for
        advertising reason lol) doesn’t mean all their gods are the same! It’s
        like saying that because all the children call their dads, “Dad”, that all
        those dads are the same dad!

        • winn sutanto

          Anna, I PARTIALLY agree with you.
          Indeed Allah of Islam is not Jehovah of the Bible.
          But I am not 100% sure if Allah is a moon god.
          Prophet Mohammad’s understanding of God almighty was indeed faulty.
          But he did teach his followers to worship the creator, not the creation.
          I am very aware of the satanic verses.
          And the muslims indeed need to be embarrassed with this huge mistakes that their prophet did.
          But Mohammad’s reference to worship the idols seemed to be only this one-time mistake, and not something that he repeatedly did.
          The crescent moon and the star of Islam that you frequently see on the top of the mosque meant that muslims need to worship their Allah as high as the moon and the star, and these symbols do NOT refer

        • winn sutanto

          Continuing my reply…….. These symbols did not refer to pagan moon god, as I understand the theology of Islam.
          The teaching of Islam is indeed evil.
          But I believe we need not to make Islam worse than as it is.
          The belief of some kind of moon god was not something that prophet Mohammad or the Qur’an taught.
          Jesus Bless you, my sister Anna

          • Anna Tree

            Hi Winn, I only say what I have support for it, so yes, I agree there is no need to invent anything about islam: there is enough bad stuff in it anyway.

            Islam is about the creator and monotheism, BUT I will have to disagree: allah was worshipped before mohamed invented islam: allah was the moon god, one of the 365 idols that were inside the kaba in Mecca, idols of the quraish, the polytheist tribe of the family of mohamed.

            For example mohamed’s father, who died before the birth of islam, was named abdallah and this name means “slave of allah”.

            Thank you for your blessings and the same to you.

          • winn sutanto

            I read two different versions of story on what prophet Mohammad did when he reentered the Kabah after he successfully Islamized the city of Medina.
            Some books say that he destroyed all the idols except one.
            So he destroyed 364 idols and saved one idol.
            The idol he saved was indeed the statue of Allah (the pagan moon god).
            But I also read on other resource that he destroyed all the 365 idols. And furthermore he also destroyed all the icons inside the Kabah. And finally he erased all the pictures and drawings on the wall inside the kabah including the pictures of Lord Jesus and Virgin Mary.
            If islam honors Jesus and his mother, as the muslims claim to.
            Then why prophet Mohammad needed to erase the pictures of Jesus and Virgin Mary.

          • Anna Tree

            I don’t think it matters if he destroyed 365 or 364. What I am saying is that the name allah already existed and it was the name of the moon god. So allah cannot be Yaveh.

            Also as I wrote allah the moon god had three daughters and indeed as you say there was a few verses about them in the koran that were after deleted by mohamed, the satanic verses (he said those verses were told to him by satan, but then how do we know not all verses or some or most of them, weren’t told by satan as well).

            So allah is the moon god, even if it changed religion and got new stories and became the only god, his name was reused.

            Muslims erase the pictures because mohamed came back to the rule of Judaism to not pray to images.

          • winn sutanto

            Anna, I must agree with you regarding the satanic verses.
            The infamous satanic verses that were made popular by Salman Rushdie is actually only one of the so many satan-inspired verses in the Koran.
            We need surah 9 verse 29, or surah 5 verse 33.
            Satan-inspired verses indeed.
            Regarding whether Allah is a moon god or not.
            I don’t actually completely agree nor do I completely disagree with you.
            I am still learning about it, and I still cannot conclude 100% one way or the other.
            But as I wrote on my previous comment, one thing for sure A

          • winn sutanto

            Continuing my email….. One thing for sure Allah of Islam is definitely NOT our Jehovah of the Bible.
            When I can make a conclusion who Allah really is.
            I will definitely share with you

  • phorning

    As the article points out, people who promote this aren’t just ignorant of history, but ignorant of what is happening to Christians in Muslim countries today.

  • IstvanIN

    I’d advise leaving the C of E and joining the RC Church but Pope Frank isn’t much better than these guys.

    • George Moriarty

      There are many churches out there that would never compromise with Islam.
      Many of these have cultural backgrounds which have experienced the terror and darkness of the Moon god religion.
      My first warning about the dangers of Islam was from retired missionaries who had served in Malaysia, they simply said Islam is the greatest ever threat to world peace of all time, this was 40 years ago.
      I also once listened to an outstanding message from an Egyptian-Greek pastor who told us also of the horrors of living under Islam and it’s twisted theology, he told us not to listen to all the propaganda that Islam is just like Christianity and we have nothing to fear from Islamic immigration. (Which was just starting in Australia)
      There are also lots of English speaking bible based churches that will teach against Islam.
      As for the present Pope, yes I think he will be politically correct and socially aware and I can see great compromises with Islam also.

      • Sick of it

        Baptists are about as anti-Islam as any group you’ll find. Southern Baptists anyway.

      • winn sutanto

        Any church will compromise the truth of the Bible if it does not believe that Lord Jesus is the ONLY way of salvation.
        Jesus Himself said that “I am the truth, the way, and the life. No one can come to the Father, except through me”
        His Holiness Pope Francis I definitely does not believe this simple biblical truth, neither those misguided pastors/priests inside the church of England.
        To their credits, some of the conservative pastors in the evangelical churches in USA do still believe this simple biblical truth.
        This biblical truth is simple but profound

      • winn sutanto

        I find that the strongest Christians that are truthful to the Bible are ex-Muslims
        These apostates from Islam know it so very well the darkness of Islam, and the salvation in Christ.
        Some of them pay a very high price of following the Savior.
        Some lost their life. Some were disowned by their parents and siblings.
        These courageous apostates from Islam need not to hear that some Christian Leaders (including the Pope) extending warm happy feeling toward Islam.
        Islam was established by prophet Mohammad to deny the deity of Jesus.
        Islam, at its core, is a rejection of a message of Christian gospel..
        Lord, have mercy on us ALL. Truly ALL

        • George Moriarty

          Thank you winn, very well said.

    • Speedy Steve

      The Russian Orthodox church is waiting for you with open arms. They understand the threat of mohammedans; Chenchen and otherwise. Oddly enough in Russia, many have shunned mohammed and have accepted Christ.

      • John Smith

        Any Orthodox church, IMO.

      • Mangosteen, $1000 chair

        Are the Orthodox churches the same? Like, with the same saints and stuff? I want to check out the Russian but we only have a Greek one around here. If I went to the Greek one could I go to a Russian one later and know what was going on?

        • Speedy Steve

          Liturgically they are the same, but the Russians are more traditionalist.

        • Speedy Steve

          Pretty much. The Greeks are less likely to offer the liturgy in English.

    • TF

      How about reading the bible by yourself or with your family members and friends? I would recommend this to Brits since they don’t have the network of churches which the United States has. As such, the churches are more easily infiltrated and use by certain people to drive political agendas.

      • IstvanIN

        But what about fellowship and camaraderie?

  • superlloyd

    This guy must be the biggest, White idiot I’ve read about for a long while and he has some tough competition. Breathtaking stupidity, naivety and complete ignorance of the blood drenched reality of the religion of pieces and its’ violence and intolerance to non-muslims of whatever stripe.

    • Blackfish

      He’ll figure it out once it’s too late.

      “What’s that big knife for, my friend Mohammed??”

  • George Moriarty

    In the England I once knew this vicar would have been facing blasphemy charges.
    But weak church and weak politicians no wonder Britain now has at least 10 million resident Muslims who must by now be having a significant say in the running of that once great nation.

    • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

      Sadly the UK is a shell of its former glory and that too is fading.

      • Blackfish

        Socialism strikes again.

    • TrueNorthFree

      There are parts of England that are now third world cesspits. For example, in Rotherham thousands of English schoolgirls were raped and tortured by Pakistani Muslim men on English soil for years and officials refused to put a stop to it because they were afraid of being called “racist”.
      This is why all whites must toughen up to name calling and get comfortable with being called “racist”. Whites must begin to claim the meaning of that word.

      • Cid Campeador

        THe PAKS who committed these rapes should have been found dead in various parts Rotherham.
        They only thing that they understand is violence in kind.
        It reminds me of a line in the movie We Were Young and Soldiers , in which North Vietnamese officer was speaking to one of his soldiers after they had completely annihilated a company of French Troops.
        He remarked that their job was to keep killing the French soldiers and sooner or later they would stop coming.
        WE need to do the same thing here. To me violent rape is a crime punishable by death. 30,000 White woman are raped by “non-Whites” (code word) yearly. I’m not certain the the figure includes the ones who were also murdered. I would wager that it doesn’t.

    • HE2

      The Vicar should at least be sacked. By the tenets of Christianity, he is heretical, and has no business leading a parish.

  • Speedy Steve

    Mohammedan prayers have also occurred at Washington National Cathedral. The bishop should perform an exorcism. I suppose that the liberal/socialist Anglicans will eventually allow satanists to perform human sacrifice, or at least let Haitians perform voodoo in there.

    • David Ashton

      Paganism (I am not sure about outright Satanism) is now recognized as an official faith in our multicultural UK prisons. Maybe they will out aborted babies on the jail menus along with halal, kosher, vegetarian and gluten-free diets.

      • John Smith

        Isn’t “Jedi Knight” also? More valid than islam.

      • TrueNorthFree

        Earth based religions were the ancestral practices of people of European heritage. There is very little threat from a band of Wiccans – unlike Muslims, pagans dont have any desire to subjugate the world with violence.

        • Sick of it

          Actually neo-pagans don’t even know the old traditions so they pretty much made stuff up. Those traditions as originally practiced and the original beliefs, excepting bits and pieces found hither and yon, are centuries dead.

        • David Ashton

          But you’ll have my support when Muslims come to “crucify the pagans wherever they find them”.

          • Anna Tree

            Really? You will be okay when they come to kill me because I am an atheist?

            By the way, when they come to kill me (or enslave me if I am still young enough for rape), they will come at the same time and check if you believe in the Trinity. If you do, your fate will be like any polytheist, death, If you don’t, you will be a dhimmi: you will have to pay the jiziyah in submission as a punishment to not convert to islam and live as a 2nd status citizen, with daily threats to your life and your family, for example like the kidnapping of your daughter.

          • David Ashton

            No need for sarcasm. Who said I would be OK? I don’t believe in the Trinity. I would be regarded as a complete infidel like you not a polytheist.

          • Anna Tree

            No, I wasn’t sarcastic. I asked genuinely because you said “But you’ll have my support when Muslims come to “crucify the pagans wherever they find them”.”

            OOPS my apology. Rereading you it is clear that I understood the contrary that what you wrote. I hope you forgive me David.

            But actually, if you don’t believe in the Trinity then you shouldn’t be killed as you are one of the “people of the book” as muslims say. You will though be a dhimmi and I am not sure if it is so much better indeed: I mean they don’t kill you right away but slowly, the way it happened with the Copts for example.

      • HE2

        Paganism and Satanism are not the same.
        I think Paganism is a bit nutty, but they neither worship Satan nor cast evil “spells.”

        • David Ashton

          True of the tree-clinging, Odinism, Asatru, most Wicca and suchlike.
          However, there are groups that worship “Lucifer” whom they do not regard in the same “light” (sic) as Christians.

          • HE2

            Berkeley is awash with Wiccans. They do not revere Satan or Lucifer.

    • InAFreeCountry

      They should reconsecrate it after that blasphemy. Don’t these people have their own places of worship? Someone’s basement?

      • HE2

        Agree, the clergy should call for a convocation of like-minded Christian pastors and priests, and as a united group, exorcize and reconsecrate the entire structure and surrounding grounds.
        It is mortally defiled until they do.

  • JustJeff

    The religion of passivity and cowardice continues its inevitable downward spiral.

    • Sick of it

      Crusaders killed the enemy. Atheist secular humanist types run away from them. Or join them.

      • JustJeff

        Let’s be real. The Crusaders were great and noble warriors but were they Christ-like?

        • Sick of it

          Ask Him when He comes back. You may not like the response.

          • JustJeff

            lol

        • InAFreeCountry

          They were retaking Jerusalem. Not taking, but retaking because it was stolen by the Saracens.

          • JustJeff

            Uuuh yeah that’s not what I meant and it’s not like I didn’t know that. Jesus said turn the other cheek so what we he have thought of what was basically a Christian jihad? I’m not being a smartass, I’m just asking you to look at your damn bible. That’s what I don’t like about you Jesus freaks, you just pick and choose what you want Christianity to be. At least the Muslims are consistent and sincere.

          • InAFreeCountry

            I guess that Christ-like means letting the muslims walk all over them. And you have me pegged wrong, I’m agnostic. But I get your point.

  • David Ashton

    The usual “liberal” ignorance or affected “masochist” ignorance. Muslims regard the Old and New Testaments as corrupt. They attack the Trinity (Allah has no partners) and deny the Crucifixion of Jesus (the Prophet Issa). The Qur’an tells believers “not to take Jews or Christians as friends”. Incidentally, you might Google “Muhammad did not exist” and follow up some interesting leads about the origins of the Qur’an.

    I trust the worshipers of “Allah” washed their feet and mouths, before putting their foreheads on the ground pretending to look for their contact lenses.

    There are some Christians even in the so-called “Church” of what was “England”, and fortunately even some well-informed ones. One of the Queen’s Chaplains has said Islam had over 100 verses inviting people to violence; “Christians will go around forgiving people and Islamists will do something else” (Daily Mail, March 12). On cue he was promptly accused of “offending” the little darlings.

    I suggested recently in “The Spectator” that the Anglicans would have less difficult in funding the upkeep of their fairly empty churches if they tried to convert the population to the Christian religion. Not a hope, I should imagine, but in any case now ruled out by the new imposed state ideology of “equality and diversity”. The most attractive old churches were taken from the Roman Catholics; I suppose the church commissioners will consider selling them off to Pakistani Muslims.

  • TruthBeTold

    “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me. Jesus.

    This is the fundamental principle of Christianity; that there is only one way to salvation. Jesus wasn’t saying that ‘any religions is as good as any other’. He made it clear that there was ONE true faith. It didn’t mean He hated others or didn’t welcome others but this is THE rule of being a Christian.

    I have no idea why so-called Christians believe in inter-religious practices. It’s like they have no idea what their faith is about or requires.

    Any Christian denomination that preaches religious equivalency is not a Christian church.

    • Katherine McChesney

      You’re correct of course. Remember also that the Muslim “Jesus” is the Christian Anti-Christ.

      • bv

        All of this nonsense was foretold a long time ago when good would be labeled evil and evil would bd labeled good.

        The beheadings have exploded all over the world and it will only increase. We are in the end of days.

    • Sick of it

      Most of them don’t read the Bible. They listen to liars on stage and on t.v.

    • InAFreeCountry

      There’s the rub. There is a big difference between tolerance and equivalency. I have a great capacity for the former. Not so much the latter.

  • Uncle Wardle

    Cancer does not take over a body in a day…

  • listenupbub

    A lot of liberal American denominations are much worse in every way. Look at the UCC website, or PC-USA, or the Episcopal Church. They have nothing lie orthodox doctrine, and their religion is basically spiritualized liberal politics. Liberal politics is on their church websites.

    People really just go to these churches to network with bigwigs and get elected to office. The others in the congregation are just there to feel good and display status.

    • John Smith

      UCC is nuts – glad I never took my baptism by them seriously.

    • Sick of it

      We have a PC-USA pastor locally who is from Oregon. Why anyone from that part of the country would come here is beyond me.

    • David Ashton

      What I find especially disgusting are the US “Campmeeting” programs with Mike Murdoch and the Cerullos, and Benny Hinn, we get on British TV. These consist of OT bible-babble and black choirs to ask viewers to send in their “seed” of $XXX to “reap their financial harvest” later in their own lives. God will respond if you enclose your ‘seed’ with ‘faith’. “Go to the phone now, and phone in your $XXX now. Keep calling if lines are full. Remember, delayed obedience is disobedience.”

  • TF

    The Anglican church is a political institution, not a religious one.

    • bv

      Heretics from a long way back. It’s whole birth was because a horny Welshmen couldn’t get an annulment.

      • Sick of it

        You mean that wonderful fellow who killed his best friend because his best friend did not think his king was equal to God?

    • David Ashton

      Instead of spiritualizing the nation it secularizes its members.

  • antiquesunlight

    Thomas Cranmer is rolling in his grave. The 1662 Book of Common Prayer is on my bedside table right now. It is a real daily blessing, I feel. I’m going to need it tonight. My thoughts about this vicar are not particularly Christian.

  • Augustus3709

    Nutty leftists are trying to out-do each other, even in the religious realm. These shenanigans are completely ridiculous. A sign of the times perhaps.

    This stunt offends both religions however. Were there any statues or pictures in the church? According to Islam that is iconoclasm.

    And they say it’s the same God? Actually Muslims deny the Trinity, which makes them heretics.

    Just a complete gimmick all around. What is this supposed to do, appeal to Muslims? Why would they join a desperate limp-wristed church when they already have their mosque-fortress no-go zones? The only thing this boosts is the notoriety and ego of the left-wing “clergy.”

  • Screamin_Ruffed_Grouse

    “They could have gone to a community centre I suppose, but they loved being in a church…

    I’ll bet they did. Much the way my neighbor’s dog loves displaying his dominance over an outstretched leg.

  • John Smith

    Typical muslim MO is to take over churches and turn them into mosques.

    • Light from the East

      Hagia Sophia should be back in Europeans’ hands.

  • WR_the_realist

    It’s long past time to stick a fork in British “Christianity”. When Britain was Great Britain it was a Christian country. That has long since ceased to be the case.

    • Sick of it

      The “City of London” and their appointed rulers have made many poor choices.

      • WR_the_realist

        It’s a bit of a stretch to blame this on the City of London (the financial sector). Under the forces of modernism the British have simply fallen away from the faith. Including many of the priests.

        • Sick of it

          The “City of London” invited in the various usurpers who have become known as the royal families of England.

          • WR_the_realist

            The left generally is antithetical to religion (not just the Jewish left, as you are angling at) and the left has long reigned in Britain.

  • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

    They tried to do that in my city once in a church and the Bishop said NO.

  • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

    The royal family is a joke and they do not do anything about keeping Britain British. The Queens is the head of the Anglican church and should put an end to madness like this. I guess she too has someone pulling the strings and she dances to that tune.

    • David Ashton

      She is handicapped by (1) the slow deliberate erosion of her status and Coronation Oath, because of the constitutional convention that she can only act on ministerial advice, and (2) her own good nature. The Prince of Wales has made several indirect and discreet efforts to keep Britain a British nation, contrary to rumor about his personal affection for Islam.

      • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

        Really, Charles?? I thought he was for DIE-versity. He even used to go to the Hindu Temple at one point and show him supporting all these non white causes.

      • meanqueen

        And I had heard that he secretly converted to Islam. Which is it?

        • David Ashton

          He had an interest in Sufi architecture and mysticism, that’s all. The republican media hates him, and so does the so-called conservative “Daily Mail” which snipes at him week after week. The “secret” conversion is hardly compatible with his recent attacks on the persecution of Christians in Muslim countries, and his recent affirmation that although he wants to defend “faith”, i.e. spiritual conviction and freedom of worship, not “all faiths” as misreported (as an Anthropology graduate he is not likely to think that all cults are equally valid, let alone compatible), he intends to take the Throne as an Anglican communicant. I suppose that we can expect leaders of other religions to be invited to attend, though this could be problematic in the case of Islam.

          • Anna Tree

            I sincerely hope you are right: I read much support to the contrary re. faith/all faiths, about islam in the school curricula etc.

          • David Ashton

            The Queen has no responsibility for the school curricula. Charles started an educational think-tank which tried to get a return to traditional teaching. Efforts to get things right are often frustrated by the entrenched leftism in the education and other sections of the civil service.

          • Anna Tree

            I tried to find the articles I remember I read 7 or so years ago about the promotion of islam in the British curricula (and, it seems to me but I am not sure anymore, the good words of Prince Charles for it) without success. So I will not have an opinion, although I think you must know more than me on this issue.
            I do believe Prince Charles’s opinion on islam has evolved with time:
            danielpipes org/blog/2003/11/is-prince-charles-a-convert-to-islam

          • David Ashton

            I agree he has learned more as time has gone on, partly after being apprised of the apostasy issue and the growth of alien terrorism on our own soil.

    • Sick of it

      Food for thought – Would you have high expectations of a Spanish royal family ruling over Greece?

      • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

        Are you saying that because the present royal family has German blood??? I do not think that would be fair since the hanoverian dynasty or the Saxe Coburg Gotha, now changed to windsor, did have royal English blood. However the Germans and the Brits are cousins and that is one rason why Hitler did not want war with Britain and supported the British empire. Sadly the semites managed to bribe Churchill to keep his beloved Chartwells, which was in danger of being sold to repay the gambling bills racked up by his son Randolph Churchill. That is why we had the second World war and the mad DIE-versity consequences due to that.

    • Sick of it

      To answer your deleted question – Would I be making this argument if they were descendants of the male rulers of old England?

      • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

        Shame on AMren for deleting my comment. It below again. I am sorry I just do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the present Royal family is not loyal to England and wants to destroy it????

        Are you saying that because the present royal family has German blood??? I do not think that would be fair since the hanoverian dynasty or the Saxe Coburg Gotha, now changed to windsor, did have royal English blood. However the Germans and the Brits are cousins and that is one rason why Hitler did not want war with Britain and supported the British empire. Sadly the semites managed to bribe Churchill to keep his beloved Chartwells, which was in danger of being sold to repay the gambling bills racked up by his son Randolph Churchill. That is why we had the second World war and the mad DIE-versity consequences due to that.

      • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

        Did you get this reply again. My comment seems to be getting deleted for some reason
        I am sorry I just do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the present Royal family is not loyal to England and wants to destroy it????

        Are you saying that because the present royal family has German blood??? I do not think that would be fair since the hanoverian dynasty or the Saxe Coburg Gotha, now changed to windsor, did have royal English blood. However the Germans and the Brits are cousins and that is one rason why Hitler did not want war with Britain and supported the British empire. Sadly the tribesmen managed to bribe Churchill to keep his beloved Chartwells, which was in danger of being sold to repay the gambling bills racked up by his son Randolph Churchill. That is why we had the second World war and the mad DIE-versity consequences due to that.

        • David Ashton

          True, we have had problems since the murder of Charles I.

          Despite German family links George V and George VI were loyal to Britain once war was declared. Edward VIII wanted peace between England and Germany, and this was one reason why he was pushed off the Throne, and is now called “the Nazi King” by

          newspapers like the “Daily Mail” which also snipes all the time at Prince Charles whose patriotism is unquestionable. His father’s books and off-the-cuff comments are not at all PC.

  • JohnEngelman

    After serving for years as the Episcopal Bishop of Newark, John Shelby Spong admitted that he did not believe in God. That was already obvious from his books.

    • George Moriarty

      If he had been the good upright man he claimed to be he would have been honest and resigned from the Church instead of collecting his pay while destroying the very organization that was providing him with a living.

      • meanqueen

        But maybe losing his faith in God was a process for him, one in which he finally came to a realization that this was not just a temporary lapse of faith or a faith crisis that would pass, but something permanent. Is there a reason to assume that he was being intentionally deceptive? Marriages are often on the rocks with both partners trying to save it until finally, it ends in divorce. I see loss of faith in a previously devout person to be similar.

        • George Moriarty

          Up to a point that is a fair comment.
          But when he was speaking here in Australia many years ago we could not believe what we were hearing and I still believe it was wrong for him to use the platform of the Church to preach his message of blasphemy. The theme of his message at the time was that his mission was to save the Church from itself.
          A discussion on Spong’s theology is outside the scope of this post but it would certainly lead to this present sad situation of allowing Muslims to participate in our (liberal) churches.

          • meanqueen

            Thanks for the response. I know that a family member really liked his books, but beyond that, I know nothing about him. I am curious to know if he was just criticizing the church or whether he is really an atheist. If the latter is true then yes, he shouldn’t be up on a platform before a Christian audience!

          • George Moriarty

            You can find out a lot about J.S.Spong, both good and critical by way of a simple Google search. Again a discussion on this theologian is outside the scope of the main topic. Basically, Bishop Spong is one of many modernist or liberal Christians who say they are Christian but do not believe in the supernatural. Bishop Spong’s message to the Church is that the Church would be a better organisation and more relevant to society if it abandoned it’s traditional beliefs including the belief in God. Wrong, take away that fundamental and absolute belief and the Church will cease to exist. (That is why I made my original quite strong comment above in response to John Engleman.) Note also, Bishop Spong lost his faith very early in his career, perhaps he showed a greater degree of honesty than many other theologians.
            But, when a Church loses the very purpose for it’s existence it will be weak and ineffectual, it will concentrate on issues such as homosexual marriage or waste all of its resources over a 40 year period fighting against apartheid. This same weak church will compromise with Islam. But note, Islam is strong and powerful, it will not compromise with a weak Church and will simply walk over the weak society which we have come, partly, as a result of abandoning our Christian faith.

          • David Ashton

            Spong is terribly shallow intellectually, outclassed by both his scholarly opponents and his sympathizers.

  • Michael North

    How anyone can take the CofE seriously is beyond my understanding.

    • George Moriarty

      It still has a lot of outstanding people both lay and clergy. It also has the momentum of being a very established church. Many individual congregations and even dioceses just express total dismay at what happens at “head office”

      • David Ashton

        The secular public has a similar problem with the “Government” and “Opposition”.

  • HE2

    They do not understand the basic tenets of Islam.
    Once a muzzie service is celebrated in any religious building, the structure is considered a mosque thereafter.
    The Marxist pope allowing muzzie prayers in the Vatican essentially signed over the deed to Islam.
    The West chooses to remain in denial as to the malevolence of this death cult, Islam.
    They may conquer the world without firing a shot.

  • DiversityIsDeath

    Ewww!

  • SFLBIB

    I saw something like this in a Catholic [!] Church. A Catholic woman was marrying a Muslim man in a Catholic Church, but they had an imam officiate with the priest. I don’t think this is allowed according to canon law.

    I must declare that sometimes I think Christians carry ecumenism to a fault.

    • David Ashton

      I don’t think an imam would allow a Muslim woman to marry Christian man, but the reverse is permissible. As for RC canon Law, the magisterium and the liturgy – these have collapsed since Vatican 2. I have even see a book by a nun asserting that the Petrine Text was a fiction getting the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur from some bishop (probably an American).

  • Eagle1212

    If they want to practice their religion in a church that is not rightfully theirs, they can do it back in Camel Land where they can practice it with no problem at all, we already had enough of these America-hating terrorist-loving scums destroying our liberty and freedom.

  • To paraphrase the great Jonathan Bowden, the clergy are lifting up their beards and asking them where they want to slice.

    The Church has not only lost millions of their congregations, but lost their marbles too.

    I heard two things on a recent radio four morning slot the other week. They were unrelated, yet related.

    One was a religious slot by a Christian speaker who recalled how Christianity lived side by Muslims when they had spread their empire over some country or other – and how the Muslims had let them pray in their mosque after a certain time at night. This was at some point about 1200 years ago or something.

    The other was a section about those who have fled from the war in Syria and who are living on the mountains of another country. Children were dying, but they were not allowed to bury their dead on the same ground as Muslims. They could not use the cemeteries. They were having to illegally bury them and bribe people to get it done. They were not allowed to mark the graves or ever return to the area.

    Like liberals, the Church cherry picks the most random of events to propagandise around “interfaith harmony” – whilst ignoring the plight of Christians in every Muslim nation. It should be obvious as to what will eventually come – but here they are, holding out their hand for it.

    • David Ashton

      The ecclesiastical establishment in in the west (e.g.the WCC) took a similarly generous view of the communist regimes that persecuted Christians.

  • InAFreeCountry

    It is as bad as allowing-or embracing-the worship of Ba’al or Dagon in a Christian church.

  • newscomments70

    What else would one expect from that silly, gay, liberal church? I stopped going years ago. In my community, they are now lobbying for a mega center for the homeless. We have unheard of problems with the homeless, and they want to bring in more. As far as groveling to the Muslims, I wonder why the looney CofE clergy have such selective memories. Most Muslims reject western liberalism. As Britain converts to sharia, women’s rights, gay rights, etc will be trashed.

  • Fr. John+

    THis cleric should be sacked, and the building exorcised. The demonic entity that is the personification of the Ka-aba, has NOTHING to do with YHWH and/or Jesus Christ.
    I’ll say this of such actions, with the full knowledge that Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox Church history is on my side: ANATHEMA!

  • David Ashton

    Feel free to quote anything you like without attribution. “No copyright of ideas”.