California Counties Vote to Break Away and Form New State

RT, June 4, 2014

Frustrated with their representation in government, residents in two of California’s northern counties are heading to the polls on Tuesday to decide whether they should consider seceding from the state.

According to Reuters, campaigns in both Del Norte and Tehama counties are underway to convince residents that permanently separating from California is in their best interests. By supporting the measures at the ballot box, supporters would be pushing local officials to continue efforts to combine parts of northern California with parts of southern Oregon into the nation’s 51st state.

The new state would be called Jefferson, as a tribute to Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, who once believed that parts of the Western United States could form a freestanding republic.

If the measures are approved, local lawmakers would join other counties and continue to try and generate momentum for secession. Already, four counties–Glenn, Modoc, Siskiyou, and Yuba–have voted to join the effort, while others are waiting for the results in Del Norte and Tehama before taking action.

As noted by the Associated Press, as many as 16 counties in northern California could potentially join the movement, though official secession would require approval by the state legislature as well as the US Congress. If they all decide to seek separation, the counties would make up about a quarter of California’s territory.

Despite their size, however, the disgruntled counties only contain a small percentage of California’s inhabitants–Del Norte, for example, is home to just 28,000 of the state’s 38 million-strong population. Fed up with the way California allocates representatives–lawmakers are delegated based on population–secession supporter and organizer Aaron Funk sees the ballot as a way forward.

“We have 11 counties up here that share one state senator,” he told the AP, noting that the greater Los Angeles area and San Francisco Bay have far more. “Essentially, we have no representation whatsoever.”

The measure faces opposition, however, from groups who worry about how Jefferson would be able to support itself financially, especially since many of its residents are poor and unemployed. California already supplies most of the funding for infrastructure and education, and most of the large swathes of land are owned by the federal government–something that would remain the same even if Jefferson were to become a state.

{snip}

Meanwhile, Ethan Rarick of the University of California, Berkeley, noted that problems with representation wouldn’t stop with the establishment of Jefferson, either.

“There is no incentive,” he said to Reuters. “If you’re one of 100 senators, you don’t want to become one of 102.”

{snip}

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  • curmudgeon

    I hope they can escape and quit supporting the leeches and moochers of the liberal idiots currently running the state.

    • Bobbala

      It’s not the “liberal idiots currently running the state”. They are merely true representatives of the 3rd world population.

      When/ If enough Haitians arrive in your neighborhood, you too will enjoy living in Haiti.

  • I only wish the Jeffersonians would take the sixty second truly to figure out why they no longer want to be part of California, what the crucial difference is between the California they want to depart and their own areas which they think should be separated.

    Otherwise, their work will all be for naught, when someone gets the bright idea to make the state of Jefferson more vibrant.

    • Pro_Whitey

      I am concerned that if this gets close to fruition, it will get through Congress only at the price of making D.C. and Puerto Rico states. Ugh.

      • MikeofAges

        Gotta keep that Senate balanced. Where did I hear that before?

      • AndrewInterrupted

        Good point. You gave it the Sun Tzu treatment. You thought like our enemy. We need more of that here.

        Puerto Rico and DC would only be states temporarily. Such egregious acts would just get the overall secession ball rolling.

        Then they’d be sovereign nations! See ya!

  • Jesse James

    California is way too big both geographically and demographically. Break it up, the sooner the better.

    If they want to keep 100 senators my suggestion is to cut Hawaii lose completely and replace it with the new state of Jefferson. They won’t even have to replace all the flags.

  • Bobbala

    The diversity is coming. Drawing more lines on a map is not even slowing it down. They can’t resist the racism.

  • Anglokraut

    Enough with talk of votes and petitions! Just do it. California is too broke to do more than squawk indignantly. Anyone who has to ask to be free does not understand the core concept.

  • borogirl54

    If they succeed, I can see other counties in California doing the same thing.

  • revilo evola

    Ummm…it would be the 52nd. The 51st is over in the Middle East. At least defacto.

  • Hubbub

    Jefferson probably had a good idea – The present area of the United States could do well to split up into 3 or so independent, free-standing republics that would better serve the peoples living within them. As it’s presently constituted the US is too big and multicultural to be governed by a distant and disinterested central government. Too big as it is to not fail.

    • Mary

      That’s absolutely true. The size and diversity of the U.S. virtually guarantee that we are hurtling toward rapid decline at best and cataclysmic disaster at worst. Reconstitution sounds good indeed.

  • The concept of forming a new state is a wonderful act of resistence to a tyrannical state and federal government. First, a new state and then a new country.
    OK, this talk of a new state may be symbolism and no substance, but that’s how the breakup of empires starts. Remember how the Hungarians rebelled against communism in 1956 and Poland a decade or two later. You start small and you may not succeed at first, but eventually you win.
    Also remember how Ghandi won India’s freedom from the British. Start small, start where you’re at. Realize that the Republicans aren’t going to save us as they’re just the second head on a two-headed snake.
    Study Ghandi. Study history. The former USA is a Potemkin Village, corrupt, empty, and pretending to be strong. Watch the dollar collapse and be prepared to move quickly to seize the moment.

    • connorhus

      Secession is inevitable at this point unless a collapse does occur before hand. It may start with States but it won’t end there. Simple survival will dictate it eventually.

      • Nonhumans

        The economic collapse will most likely be the catalyst for secession. Afterall, the collapse will be the fruit of libtarded labor.

        • connorhus

          You maybe correct unless the collapse is bad enough that all these artificial boundaries and government goes with the economy. At that point there would be no need for secession.

    • Einsatzgrenadier

      Study Ghandi? You can’t learn anything from some paki in diapers. You might as well tell us to study MLK, who emulated the same tactic of civil disobedience. If you really want to resist those vicious totalitarians in the US federal government, you would be better off learning everything you can about the American Revolution and the American Civil War. Learn about the American revolutionary leaders, such as Jefferson, Washington, Henry, and study the great leaders of the Southern Confederacy, such as Davis and Lee. Read their writings and study their military tactics. We need an American solution for an American problem.

      • Hindu, not a Paki and he drank his own urine for health benefits. Ghandi’s tactics worked for the Russians and few lives were lost. I’d rather not see white bodies stacked up like cordwood like in the Civil War. I upvoted you because I agree that we should also study the Americans you name for spiritual enrichment and guidance. But avoiding an unnecessary bloody war is best, if such a war can be avoided.

        • Martel

          He could have been a Paki, his policies were surely not in the best interest of the Hindus. He got shot by a Hindu nationalist.

        • MikeofAges

          Not to mention, India wasn’t s*** until it put on man pants, paradoxically under a woman as prime minister. Built their own atomic bomb. Told the rest of the world to shove it about their caste system. And punked the Pakistanis in the 1971 war.

          • Singh1699

            Lol, Gandhi didn’t free India he eas hired by the British to buy them time.

            Sikhs freed India 80-90% of those dying for its freedom, were Sikhs.

            The largely Sikh army started having marxist views after the martyrdom of Bhagat Singh.

            Thr british hired Gandhi and a few others to forment a partition; really a splitting of the Punjab, to weaken the Sikhs and prevent a large marxist country being governed from Lahore by men with turbans.

            No real men take hindus seriously even today. All they’ve shown for 1000s of years is that they are good shoe polishers for central asian invaders.

            ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ | ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

          • MikeofAges

            Around many Sikhs when I lived in Central California. Although Sikhs generally maintained their distinctive appearance I thought they actually were very Americanized for the short time most of them had been here. One impression I had of Sikhism as a religion is that it strongly promotes reality-based thinking. That made me think that Sikhs would not go to another country not expecting that they would have to become part of and be loyal to that country.

            Another thing I eventually concluded is that Sikhism is not a forbidding and xenophobic religion. Visitors apparently are welcome to attend Sikh services and learn about Sikhism.

            Sikh services, I heard, go one for many hours. People may come, leave and return later. Christianity could use that. I don’t see how it is forbidden by Scripture. Eucharistic Christianity require that persons go through the step of Liturgy — affirmation of the creed, confession and absolution — before receiving the Eucharist. Nevertheless, that should not be a barrier to the longer
            service.

            In America, people may see older Sikhs on the street, and assume because their traditional couture and coiffure that Sikhs are resistant to Americanization. These people, however, are the aging parents of the primary immigrants, who have come here to live out their lives with their adult children. No reason to expect them to alter their identity at that late stage in life. Nothing new with this either in the American experience.

      • Thomas Parker

        Suggest you don’t spend too much time on the military tactics of the South. I suggest instead you read up on Northern logistics.

  • Who Me?

    Great Idea. This will give the mostly farming communities and small towns of northern California some relief from the unrelenting stream of “vibrancy” from the more southern areas of the state–at least temporarily. They will still have to deal with the little brown “agricultural workers”; meaning they will have to actually pay White people a living wage to do the work. I don’t know why people haven’t caught on to the fact that this would actually be cheaper in the long run. You either pay people decent wages, or you pay in the form of taxes for their welfare. Most normal White farmers would be happier and the whole nation would be cleaner and healthier if there were White people picking the strawberries or planting the lettuce. There should be no stigma attached to this, and probably wouldn’t be if it returned to being White people’s work. This new state of northern California, call it Jefferson or whatever, would be a great place to try this out.
    After California is taken care of they can take and combine Washington and what’s left of Oregon, then divide them vertically, so the western 1/3 of both states combined (the Seattle-to-Portland coastal libtards) can do whatever they want. and the eastern 2/3rds can get out from under their whacko lefty laws, and incidentally, keep the tax revenues from our side of the state to use on our side instead of being sucked up by the coastal cities, never to be seen again.

    • Kenner

      I just got back from birding the Wenatchee Mts. in E. Washington. Saw an elk, deer…Great area.

      • Who Me?

        Glad you had a good time. Yes the Wenatchee area, and anything east of there is lovely. Come back again and consider moving to the lovely Northwest. The more aware White people the better.

        • Kenner

          Sigh. I live in Seattle, a city run by crazed Marxist scolds and crones sporting witch hair and Birkenstocks. Not to mention the heavily inked vampire-american community.
          Luckily, Ellensburg and sunshine are only about an hour and a half away, and the drive over the Cascades is beautiful.

          • Who Me?

            You couldn’t pay me enough to live on the west side of the mountains!

    • dd121

      Jefferson and Hamilton knew that there was an inherent fault line between city and rural people. It was the main division during the civil was and it’s the main division now. There is a massive quake waiting to happen.

      • JohnEngelman

        US News Sept. 18, 2012

        Studies show that states that elect Democrats contribute the most in federal taxes relative to what they consume in government services. Conversely, many states that elect Republicans contribute the leastin taxes relative to the services they consume. This is true even though many Democratic states contain large, poor, urban populations of color…

        The Blue counties contribute the most state taxes relative to the services they consume. The Red counties consume the most services relative to the taxes they pay…

        California shows a similar pattern. Republican Modoc and Tulare Counties consume the most in taxpayer-funded services from the state on a per-capita basis. Says San Francisco Chronicle writer Kevin Fagan: “The prevailing attitude among the right-wing ranchers and modern hippies who define Modoc County is of fierce self-reliance—but more people here than just about anywhere else depend on welfare checks of some kind to get by.” In contrast, famously liberal San Francisco and Marin Counties generate the most tax revenues for the state on a per capita basis…

        Why do people in Red states and counties resent government spending so passionately even as they need so much of it? The central problem is poverty. Many of the residents of these counties are poor. They are ill-prepared to make a decent living no matter how hard they tug on their own bootstraps. For example, in California’s conservative Modoc county only 12 percent of adults over 25 have a bachelor’s degree. Nearly 20 percent live below the poverty line. Many Modoc residents can’t afford to send their children to college. They need government programs to survive, let alone improve their financial outlook.

        • dd121

          They need the government. Just how did people ever survive right after the revolution when there was small government and few services? I guess the human race just naturally gravitates toward security rather than liberty.

        • MikeofAges

          Did you know, John, that the rest of California does not pay for the water it gets from the area of origin? There is some complexity to the situation that your simplistic utilitarian calculus does not account for. One thing that is true — no jobs for college graduates. The young people who live there who go to and complete college do not stay there. That, in part accounts for the limited number of college graduates.

          The story of America’s rural counties needs some study. One of the issues are the condition of the white rural underclass. There is one, you know. The suppression of the vote of low income and younger residents. This hurts Republicans in statewide elections, but the farmers do not care. They want to control the county boards and who the elected legislative representatives are. Vote suppression is never an issue until the Hispanic population reaches some certain threshold, and then only as it pertains to the Hispanic vote.

          Then there is distribution of income. I lived in Merced County in California for almost a decade. The agricultural product of the county was equal to 1/3 of the entire state of Iowa, with less than 10 percent of the population. But the county was afflicted with Mississippi-like poverty and a poor school system. Iowa has great schools and a tremendous public university system across all categories of institutions. Who lives in Merced County, compared to Iowa, is an issue. But so is what happens to a society’s wealth. That is always an important question.

          • Dave West

            Is Merced County mostly hispanic?

          • MikeofAges

            Dave West: Yes, and I presume more and more so all the time.

          • Greg Thomas

            All of California is mostly hispanic!

          • But wait. Doesn’t Merced have UC-Merced now, the Harvard of the central valley, the great institution of lower living where one can major in social justice?

          • MikeofAges

            Question Diversity: That’s part of the issue. U.C-Merced is not intended to serve the population of the San Joaquin Valley. It is a research university in development, not an ordinary state college or university.

            UC-Merced, in my estimation, is a monument to the incomprehension of higher education on the part of most people. I suspect the original goal was to develop a STEM-oriented university to serve the Asian population of the Bay Area. It has failed in that particular and in many others as well.

            Sometime long ago, the University of California decided it would build no more urban campuses. In light of the present needs and situation of California society, that is a failed policy.

            Another hope, I believe, was to create in Merced County a Pacific Rim-oriented research complex, utilizing the UC-Merced campus and the available land at the former Castle Air Force base. One of the attraction, I suppose, was that the potential ability to fly people in and out from all over the world, without any scrutiny as to who they were or why they were there.

            The University of California apparently likes to pop surprises. The university announced that it had received a land donation, and so decided to build the campus in Merced. Like the UC system doesn’t have prior communication and arrangements with its potential donors of land and other large bequests? yeah, it all just happen. Kind of like a pie in the face in a “Three Stooges” short.

        • Dave West

          With regards to the fact that red states receive more from the feds on average than blue states, I’d like see a breakdown of the funds spent by the fed on individual states; i’ve yet to find a detailed outline on the internet. Is it mostly welfare, farm subsidies, land management, military base management, procurement spending?

          • Ella

            How much of these States are forced to pay for illegals and their children through mandates? I agree about the farm subsidies; food stamps are also subsidies to the farmers.

        • The Verdict of History

          This is hardly a surprise.

          Many of these Republican states, particularly those in the Southeast, are inhabited by blacks.

          I’d wager that a significant segment of those reliant on the social safety net which you reference are black.

    • Fighting_Northern_Spirit

      The vibrancy will continue because I see no evidence that his movement is WN in character. It’s a tax and representation revolt, not something for us. Those with businesses and property there will continue to hire illegal Hispanics and Indians. My concern is that the only way it would gather support on the national level is if it opened the door to Puerto Rican or DC statehood, two items on the moonbat checklist.

  • I wish the rest of Colorado could secede from Denver and then wall it in.

    • Kenner

      Denver and Boulder.

      • Who Me?

        I think they ought to section off Greeley, CO and wall it in then let the Somalis and the Messicans fight it out.

    • dd121

      I notice that the msm treats this growing backlash with silence. It’s mostly ignored by the media.

      • Sick of it

        Like everything else of importance.

    • Dave West

      Yeah what the hell happened to Colorado anyway? It seems to me that state has gone from a solidly conservative one to one big Obama love – fest. I went to Denver and Summit County last summer and there seemed to be more hipsters than CA. Sounds like a frustrating place to be a race realist.

  • Alexandra1973

    I wish all 50 states would secede and just start over. What can the District of Criminals do if all the states metaphorically give it the finger?

    • John

      Start using up some of the billions of rounds of .40 caliber hollow point ammo they bought up in the last few years?

      • Alexandra1973

        I don’t know, think DC can fight a war on 50 different fronts?

  • IstvanIN

    The first successful session gets the whole ball rolling, which is why the Soviets kept both their satelites and republics on a short leash. Once Yugoslavia boiled over that was the end of that, even Serbia and Montenegro couldn’t stay hitched. China is kept together by the heel of the boot not by any love of the Han by the other groups. India has problems. Most African countries survive intact due to a combination of guns and incompetence.

    pre-1965 America surfived because we were overwhelming European, Christian and English speaking. We had more than enough room for the different Euro-cultures to settle in their own distinct and separate comunities and in some cases states. A vast nation with a core Anglo-American culture and history but with the space to be a “little” different.

  • MBlanc46

    Perhaps this sort of agitation has some attention-getting value, but I’d rather see the effort devoted to returning the power illegitimately usurped by the federal government to the citizenry.

  • A Freespeechzone

    Ironically, the very Liberal NPR network in Southern Oregon and Northern California is called Jefferson Public Radio.

  • The Final Solution

    I don’t give a damn unless they have some way of stopping the third world invaders. Oregonians hate Californians. We used to have a bumper sticker that said “Don’t Californicate Oregon”. Oregon used to be very conservative until the libs came up from San Francisco and poisoned Portland and now Bend which has been overrun by Californians. They want to escape diversity but bring their liberal views which created it in the first place. Latinos have taken over all of agriculture in Oregon so this won’t help them one bit. Some towns in Eastern and Southern Oregon are over 60% Latino now, places that used to be all-white.

    • Ella

      With all the welfare, why will Whites or Blacks pick crops? There will never be an adjustment in attitude and our exploitative system until the government forces people to work for monies. Norway and Germany have low unemployment since they make their citizens get off of welfare within three years.

      • MikeofAges

        No one is entitled to any factor of production, labor included, at the price they feel like paying. If farmers can’t get the labor to grow produce crops, grow something else. Listen to me carefully. You don’t want whites and blacks working the fields as migrant labor. The problems you get with Mexican migrants would be multiplied many times over. The Mexican migrant workers often have families back home and do come here to work and make money. Few of them are the malignant criminals people imagine them to be. The illegal immigrant criminals are another element entirely. The American blacks and whites you would get would be people with American appetites and no roots or ties. Be careful what you wish for. If you get it, you might regret it.

        What I wish for is that American agriculture would mechanize more. We could grow mechanizable crops, sell them abroad and import our table produce. Another option would be to minimize the area where labor-intensive crops are allowed to be grown. Most people don’t know it, but Central California is as much a desert as Arizona. It’s all a question of who has the water rights.

  • Hallie Eva

    Yuba County, packed with Hmongs, mestizos, and Asians, most of whom are social service leeches, has almost no tax base.
    It it also one of California’s favorite counties for parolees, housing more than its share of sex offenders and homeless, drug addicted vagrants.
    Its decline is a pity, as it was a very prosperous, booming Gold Rush community connected to San Francisco via the delta and its network of rivers upon which barges transported people, pack animals, merchandise, and gold. Several survivors of the Donner Party settled in Marysville, Yuba Co.
    The unique Victorian architecture, still extant, is reflective of that Golden era in spite of downtown Marysville resembling an abandoned city. Businesses open and shut down in the blink of an eye.

  • none of your business

    This has been discussed off and on since before the Civil War. It has little to do with the anti White liberal program since 1960. In the 19th century the name proposed was Cascades or Cascadia. Jefferson was a slave owner who did not push to send them back to Africa but along with the rest of the founders let them stay to destroy the nation 200 years later.
    Don’t get your hopes up NW Nation dreamers. The real reason for separatism even before the civil war is development of harbors and highways for overseas trade of N. California timber, mineral and other resources. That was the reason for separatism talk 100 years ago and the reason today. I would not be surprised to learn Boise Cascade and other big companies were behind this. Then there is California’s largest cash crop.

    I am not opposed to this move at all, but it has been mooted about since before the civil war and has little to do with the current liberal insanity stranglehold on California.

    It would be nice if the monitors deleted any southern heritage fanatics who blast me for using the term civil war.

  • none of your business

    Who me
    FYI, there are no big vegetable farms up there. If there were, the farmers would bring up 4ft 8 brown bowling balls from central american jungle hamlets to pick the crops.
    Ever read Victor Davis Hanson? He complains and complains about the damage hispanics farm workers did to the valley. But he never mentions that his parents and grandparents brought those brown bowling balls to the valley to pick the crops and the brown bowling balls stayed and are now:
    (1) The majority of voters
    (2) Virtually all govt workers
    (3) The political power of the valley.

    Believe me, no one would pick crops in N. California. Since the liberals destroyed the timber industry, people turned to another crop, California’s largest cash crop, the most lucrative, the easiest to grow and one which can earn 100 thousand a year net from the crop grown in the garage or other small building.

  • none of your business

    Einsatzgrenadier

    FYI, the south lost the civil war. They lost the peace which was far worse. After the civil war the south became one of the most poverty stricken and malnourished places in the western world. The south became more or less an economic colony of European and American big business. It was not until LBJs poverty program that the south got food stamps and rose out of the swamp of poverty caused malnutrition caused by its exploitation after the civil war.
    Look at W. Virginia, the most poverty stricken state in the union. It is basically owned by various Rockefeller industries.
    Losing a war is one thing, but losing the peace and plunged into dire poverty and exploitation by Northern and European businesses for 100 years is another.

    I wonder if the American growers of the state’s biggest cash crop will use this to wage war on the illegal alien messicans who have invaded the growing areas with the complicity of the federal govt which lets in anyone and never deports anyone.

    Praise the civil war officers and troops if you wish, but don’t praise the aftermath, 100 years of exploitation by Northern and European industries.

    • Ella

      Texas never seemed to plunge into poverty (except for the Dust Bowl) because of agriculture and oil. Much of the USA was poor up to 1900’s; as a result, the government started to restrict immigration to increase wages and middle class. Then, it took political turn again in the 50’s allowing in waves of Eastern European, Mediterranean, and Asian immigrants with already reducing factory jobs.

  • none of your business

    Who me

    ” combine Washington and what’s left of Oregon, then divide them vertically, so the western 1/3 of both states combined (the Seattle-to-Portland coastal libtards) can do whatever they want. and the eastern 2/3rds can get out from under their whacko lefty laws,”

    You obviously haven’t been to E.Oregon and Washington in the last 5 years. Those farm towns are as full of brown bowling balls as California farm towns. The White farmers brought them and they have stayed. There are entire towns as filled with bronw bowling balls as Watsonville, Salinas, Coachella and the whole 500 mile strip of California’s central valley farm towns,

    • Ella

      Canadians wanted to succeed from British Columbia as they once told me often. They hate their government who don’t bother to fight illegal drugs in Vancouver. Maybe, Oregonian territory could surface once again on the map.

  • none of your business

    englemann is right, welfare is very high in N. California. Part of the reason is the Indian reservations. The rez is the biggest employer in Humboldt county I know. I forget the name of the indian tribe. The Indian tribes are all on welfare.
    The reason for the heavy welfare dependency in N. California is judicial dictators and liberals. Starting in the late 1960’s “environmentalists”, mostly jews gathered in San Francisco and launched lawsuit after lawsuit against the California and Oregon logging industry using the spotted owls as plaintiff. Liberals claimed that the entire logging industry of N.CAlifornia and all of Oregon be shut down because spotted owls could not survive if any logging whatsoever occurred.
    The judges as always obeyed the orders of liberal jews and the logging industry was shut down, leaving hundreds of thousands out of work in an area where there were no other jobs.
    It was basically the Morgenthou plan for Germany put in place by judicial fiat rather than armed force. It worked, no jobs. The loggers turned to another cash crop, one compeltely unregulated by the govt.
    Something wonderful has happened to the spotted owls however. The jews and judges saved them from the loggers, but they are rapidly being exterminated by another type of owl, the barred owl. Barred owls eat spotted owls and the spotted owls are fast disappearing.

    With no more spotted owls, perhaps we can bring back logging in N California and Oregon. Growing California’s cash crop is hard work, but it can be done at home and of course hundreds of times more lucrative than logging.

    • Ella

      I have no problem with logging industry if they really replant. I was horrified when I went to OR to visit friends and saw miles of land brutally cut and destroyed by the logging industry who went bankrupt. It was the most ugly site on mountain sides. Where are the Greenies planting cones instead of driving their luxury cars and running their mouths in wine bars? It still had soil and just needed cultivating.

  • WR_the_realist

    I can understand very well why anybody would want to secede from the California state government. But that won’t accomplish much unless you secede from Washington, D.C. as well.

  • MikeofAges

    Draw a line from the southwest corner of Pennsylvania to the Golden Gate. The rest, divide at the Mississippi, more or less. Tweaking a geopolitical scheme which already has, in part, broken down will not work.

    Joel Garreau’s “Nine Nations” concept put this idea on the map more than 30 years ago. His concept was too genial and furthermore too disregarding of the political sensibilities of the people who actually live in North America.

    Here are my divisions:

    New England.
    The Northeast.
    The Great Lakes and the Upper Mississippi Valley (Big Ten-ia LOL).
    Dixie.
    A region I dub “Clintonia”, consisting of the Mid-South through Arkansas and Southern Missouri, Appalachia, and the Ohio Valley.
    The Rockies and Great Plains.
    Greater Cascadia, including Northern California all the way to Alaska.
    Californie Medio (literally, Middle California, but Southern and Central California below Sacramento to you).
    The Southwest.
    Texas.
    Maritime Canada.
    Quebec.
    Greater Ontario.

  • MikeofAges

    You can tweak the concept. But the idea of a Greater New England is exactly the kind of geopolitical concept promulgated without regard to the sensibilities of the people who actually live there which I objected to in Joe Garreau’s “Nine Nations” concept. The Northeast needs a name, that is true, but the unit I was thinking of comprised New York, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania.

    What I am surprised no one comments on is the idea of the region dubbed “Clintonia” on account of that being where the Clintons (both of them) had their greatest political strength. That would encompass everything above North Carolina and below the southern border of Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Kentucky, Appalachia, the southern parts of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri, and Arkansas. Throwing all former slave states into a single concoction called “Dixie” misses the mark and again disregards political and cultural sensibilities of the people who actually live there.

    The only part of the idea that drew a sharp response, any response really, was the idea of cutting the Southwest loose. White Southwesterners, I do not think, would want to lose the protection of the greater entity of the United States. I don’t think blacks would like the idea either, for much the same reason. I did put the idea up once on a black political and cultural website. Got no response. Will try that again sometime in the future.

    One thing I do think is that if North America breaks up into constituent units defined by geopolitics and culture, there will be no higher outside authority imposing a pattern on it.

    A map I saw once, and I have never been able to find it again, described the Greater New York area as “Judaica”. Maybe Semetica would be these days a better designation. In any case, the Mediterranean and allied nationalities, led by the Jews, are the power in that region. I consider the Irish an allied nationality on account of their Catholic heritage and anti-British stance.

    One scholar who worked on the idea of how divide the world back up into its actual constituent nations was Leopold Kohr. He was a British economist and did not understand the Americas very well. I liked what Kohr said, but the issue that came to mind for me was: Who would be the guarantor if one giant arose and tried to establish dominion over all of the small historic states? we would have the same problem here, but maybe to less a degree. Even the blacks might be happy back in the South once they were convinced their rights were going to be respected. How could the Mexicans and other Latin Americans justify infiltrating the rest of North American when the part they had a rational claim to was under their control. How could anyone else stand against the claim that the Northern Tier of the United States and Canada were the North American homeland of the European descended people? Native Americans and First Peoples belong to independent nations with rights and claims that need to be respected. Who else would have a claim they could possibly imagine had to be submitted to? Maybe trying to hold it all together is what is causing all the problems.

  • MikeofAges

    My comment was my take on their culture and character. I don’t think among Asian immigrant groups that they’re the biggest menace to American identity and culture. Their appearance makes them seem more threatening than they are, but continued immigration will delay their cultural assimilation and move them in the direction of maintaining their cultural ties to their old country.

    In India, even though they were independent of Hinduism, they nevertheless constituted a caste. They were soldiers, policemen, and performed heavy work like hauling. Here, many of them are truck drivers. That is a reflection of their historic identity. They are in my estimation tough, autonomous, resilient people who are reality-based thinkers. Those characteristics make them relatively immune to being pressured from the outside, but make them also not vulnerable to becoming troublemaking, ill-adapted and dependent people either.

    As noted, that is my cultural assessment of the Sikhs in America. That is separate and apart from the issue of whether I think they or anyone else should be coming here in the large numbers they are coming in, or in any numbers whatsoever. Whether their progeny keep these characteristic or in the future grow up with the same unrealistic sense of entitlement many native-born Americans have remains to be seen.

    I see the latter as the eventual fate of all Americans regardless of stripe, except for those who either individually swim against the stream or who are from families which can maintain hereditary standards of achievement and success. Even money doesn’t always provide, except in the obvious way.