Experts: Markey Proposal May Threaten Free Speech

Erin Smith, Boston Herald, April 23, 2014

U.S. Sen. Edward J. Markey wants the government to study and recommend ways to stop the Internet, TV and radio from “encouraging hate crimes,” but First Amendment advocates say the bill is a menace to free speech.

“This proposed legislation is worse than merely silly. It is dangerous,” said civil liberties lawyer Harvey A. Silverglate, arguing even hate speech is protected absent a crime. “It is not up to Sen. Markey, nor to the federal government, to define for a free people what speech is, and is not, acceptable.”

Markey’s bill would direct a government agency to identify hate speech and create recommendations. Markey in a statement yesterday said the bill makes “crystal clear that any recommendations must be consistent with the First Amendment’s free speech protections.”

Harvard Law professor Alan M. Dershowitz said, “He’s not going to be able to come up with legislation that sufficiently protects the First Amendment. We always have to be able to respond to the racists and bigots, but not at the expense of the First Amendment.”

{snip}

Michael Lieberman of the Anti-Defamation League said he backs the bill, which is similar to a Markey-backed 1993 study that found hate crimes linked to media “scattered and largely anecdotal” and recommended no government bans.

“If we thought this legislation would result in censorship, we would not support it,” said Lieberman. “You could take the position that any legislation could lead to government censorship, but the way we’re looking at this is a net positive. This updates a study that is 20 years old.”

{snip}

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  • May?

    How about Will?

    Ed Markey, this is what that state full of Boston Strong people made their Senator.

    • Oil Can Harry

      This dork markey’s entire career has been abourt regulating speech, from his efforts in the 80s to ban “TV violence” to his longtime support for the unfair Fairness Doctrine.

    • bilderbuster

      Those Boston Strong boneheads didn’t object to warrantless house to house searches of entire neighborhoods looking for the single teenage suspect after the Boston Marathon bombing either.
      This is Barney Frank country after all.

    • Markey is Boston Weak. He’s afraid of roller-coasters and while serving in the House of Representatives, once proposed serious restrictions be placed upon them, saying they are dangerous mentally and physically, while providing no evidence to his claims, and in spite of much to the contrary.

      • When John F. Kennedy was in Congress, he loved to ride roller coasters.

  • MekongDelta69

    Q. Ahh – What do a few Amendments, the Constitution, the entire Bill of Rights, and every other Founding Document mean to a black, muslim, communist dictator and his entire regime?

    A. Nothing

  • Atheist Realist

    Why the hell did Markey give up 36 years of seniority to run for the senate anyways?

    • Pro_Whitey

      After filling out Kerry’s term, he only has to run every 6 years. I’m sure that’s preferable.

      • bilderbuster

        Another lifer from Mass.

  • a multiracial individual

    Attention haters:

    Note that the two lawyers protecting free speech are Jewish.

    • JohnEngelman

      Anti Semitism angers me, but it is easy for me to point out that it is irrational. I would rather expose that irrationality than see anti Semites suppressed.

      • The same freedom of speech that permits anti-Semitism also allows you to argue against it.

        • Bartek

          There has been quite a bit of censorship on ‘a multicultual individual’s post. If you don’t support it you disappear.
          The ‘allowable content’ for rebuttal is quite narrow.

      • Zaporizhian Sich

        If you are a Slav, it is neither irrational nor is it hate for hate’s sake. I detest them for good reason, so do most Slavs.

        • JohnEngelman

          Whence come these unreasonable hatreds, and why their unifying effect? They are an expression of a desperate effort to suppress an awareness of our inadequacy, worthlessness, guilt, and other shortcomings of the self. Self-contempt is here transmitted into hatred of others.

          – Eric Hoffer, from The True Believer

          ———-

          Your excuse for hating Jews is that Jews were in the Soviet Communist Party. While a larger percentage of Jews were in the Soviet Communist Party than in the Soviet population, Jews still represented a small minority within the Soviet Communist Party. I have documented this before.

          The truth is that like other anti-Semites you hate Jews because you need to hate.

          • Bartek

            Suppose I will be banned soon for offering dissent. But here I go, trying to convey a point, again…
            Perhaps the forbidden ‘hate’ and culturally approved ‘adoration’ are misguided concepts when involving what very well might be the traits of an ethnic group.
            Science has show that individuals possess inherited traits. Science also seems to suggest that some of these traits may influence political leanings and other behaviors.
            It would logically follow that when a group of individuals are members of a genetically isolated group that for whatever reason remains isolated they could begin to manifest dominate traits that are genetically inherent (basic Mendelian Genetics).
            If some of these traits cause that group to have a negative impact on other groups the reactions are not unreasonable, nor irrational.

          • JohnEngelman

            I agree with you that, “Science has show that individuals possess inherited traits. Science also seems to suggest that some of these traits may influence political leanings and other behaviors.” I am a genetic determinist. I believe that genes are more important than any other factor in determining not only ability levels, but personality and character.

            The only way that Jews “have a negative impact on other groups,” is as successful competitors in the class room and on the job. Jews earn their achievements through hard work and talent.

          • brior

            “Jews earn their achievements through hard work and talent.” Ah yes propaganda,theft, and usury. Very hard works.

          • gemjunior

            “The only way that Jews “have a negative impact on other groups,” is as successful competitors in the class room and on the job. Jews earn their achievements through hard work and talent.”
            Well, that’s nice that they were competing in class and on the job when they were expelled from every polite society they went near for the last thousand years. Until they were smart enough to gain with their “hard work and talent” control of almost all information they’d be able to do whatever they want to whoever they want.

          • JohnEngelman

            Jews were expelled because of religious bigotry.

            Persecution of the Jews bred them for superior intelligence. Those Jews who had the resources and resourcefulness to establish themselves in other countries survived and prospered.

            Now anti Semitism is motivated by jealousy generated by Jewish superiority and prosperity.

          • Nancy Thomas

            NONSENSE!!!!!!
            Jews get ahead by Jewish supremacist networking, using money as a form of control, and sheer BS!!!!!!

          • Nancy Thomas

            Traits such as cohesive group strategies, moral particularism, etc.

          • Bartek

            Problems between Europeans (Slavs esp.) and other groups have historical precedence long before the rise of Communism.

          • JohnEngelman

            In Europe during the middle ages Jews were not allowed to own land. They were not allowed to practice most trades and professions. They were forced to survive as money lenders. Christians were forbidden by the Church to become money lenders.

            Money lending is an intellectually demanding field. Jews who could not learn the necessary skills left the faith, or they did not have children. Paradoxically, persecution bred Ashkenazi Jews for superior intelligence.

            While money lending is essential for commerce, it is not the way to win friends. People do not like to have to borrow money. They do not like to have to pay it back.

            Because Ashkenazi Jews came to be more intelligent on the average than Gentiles land owners hired them to manage their estates. Governments hired them to be tax collectors. This happened more commonly in Eastern Europe than Western Europe, because levels of education were lower in Eastern Europe.

            Again, estate managing and tax collecting are not the way to win friends. An additional factor working against Jews was religious bigotry.

            During the nineteenth century discrimination against Jews in Europe was lessened. Jews were allowed to enter many more professions than money lending, estate managing, and tax collecting. It quickly became obvious that Jews tended to be intelligent, and prosperous as a result. This generated resentment, even as religious bigotry declined.

            I love facts that can be documented using credible sources. I am unaware that by any reasonable criterion Jews tend to be less moral than Gentiles. The fact that in the United States Jews are usually liberal Democrats is one of the reasons I admire them. I am liberal on many issues. I always vote Democrat.

          • Bartek

            All other peoples of Europe were converted to Christianity, usually by force. I gather the rulers of the groups/tribes felt this was with in their right and prerogative to dictate the beliefs and culture of the ‘tribe’.
            I am fully aware of the dynamics of which you speak, and feel the greatest injustice every perpetrated upon this group was tolerating and allowing their foreign presence. They should have been forced to convert and assimilate just like everyone else was.
            From what limited evidence exists it seems this was not done in the majority of territories in an attempt to use the foreigners (who at one time themselves might of been a ruling class itself) to facilitate working around of Catholic cultural prohibitions that limited usury and profit.
            Your Western vs Eastern European arguments lack any validity other than revealing your own bigotry and prejudice. The real reason for the Easter European presence is due to an European origin (Khazars).
            Before we engage in an argument about the validity of that position please be aware their is genetic evidence for such a position irregardless of the effort of certain parties to ‘bury it’.

          • jayvbellis

            John Engelman writes:
            “Jews were not allowed to own land. They were not allowed to practice most trades and professions. They were forced to survive as money lenders”

            I reply:

            No one is forced to be a usurious money lender. Just as no one is forced to be a sexual trafficker of White slavery prostitution. No one is force do be a hard core pornographer.

            Read Mark Twain on this subject. He wrote that the main cause of resentment of Jewish people was not the crucifiction tale, but was the reputation that the Jews’ aim in life is to GET money, not make money in productive ways.

          • And as it turns out, the old canard of “Jews couldn’t own land and practice most trades and professions” is a big distortion, according to recent scholarly research by several Jews.

          • Alexandra1973

            The major thing the Jews are guilty of is denying their Messiah. The rest of it is a result of that.

          • bilderbuster

            No they were up to their same scams at least as far back as the days of Joseph and probably even before that.
            Reread that story from an Egyptian point of view.
            Joseph looted their empire lock, stock and barrel and invited the Tribe to live off the fat of the land and they grew exceedingly mighty.
            But “Then arose a new Pharaoh who did not know Joseph”.
            Jews still hold a grudge against Egypt as they still celebrate the infanticide of the first born in Egypt every Passover thousands of years later.
            Their entire view of European history is completely different from ours.
            They see the last two thousand years of European history as one of Europeans “persecuting” them for no reason starting with the Roman empire, the middle ages, the Czar’s progroms right up to the “holocaust”.
            I promise you they hate Europeans more than anyone and the Jews dislike everyone.

          • Nancy Thomas

            Uh….they think that THEY themselves are the Messiah.
            You can’t make up stuff like this.

          • Nancy Thomas

            Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, Henry Ford, Charles Lindberg……

          • saxonsun

            Mark Twain also thought that Christianity was an enormous bad joke and that it had done much harm.

          • Drew

            With due admiration for your temperance, brilliance and fact anchoring,
            I have a question for you: Do you know anything regarding a portion of a speech delivered in the US roughly about 1970 by C. P. Snow in which he conjectured (before a Jewish audience ) that high Jewish IQ may have arisen in significant part from “plural marriage” de facto arrangements during pogroms in E. Europe during which Rabbis sired children with wives of Jewish men who had been removed by the authorities?

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            “With due admiration for your temperance, brilliance and fact anchoring”

            What are you smoking? Or do you enjoy reading disinformation, no matter how well presented?

          • David Ashton

            This may well have been a factor. The fact that many Jews are clever is quite compatible with the evidence that many Jews are also clannish.

          • Geo1metric

            Read some Cicero. He pre-dates the Soviets.

          • Zaporizhian Sich

            Not an excuse, but bloody fact, just as Jews are behind the killing bloodying the soil of Ukraine yet again right now. Nothing you can say will ever dissuade me or vast number of other whites who lost loved ones, whose own lives were scarred, or lost their nations because of them. I know a LOT of people whose lives were wrecked by their activities. Face it Engleman, a lot of us are unalterably opposed to you on this.

          • JohnEngelman

            You are probably speaking of the Holodomor. The vast majority of those responsible for that were white Gentiles. Many Jews died in the Holodomor.

          • Zaporizhian Sich

            Wrong, Jews not only directed the Holdomor, many more carried it out. Some even shot Ukrainian children in the head for picking up kernels of grain from fields while starving. The Holdomor resulted in Ukrainians eating rats and even the dead in an effort to stay alive. You know not a G** D***** thing about Ukraine, it’s people or why they had good reason to hate them before, and even greater reason to hate them now.

          • David Ashton

            Kaganovich had a major role as it progressed but he was Jewish only in what you call his genetic determination.

          • bilderbuster

            Genetic determination is exactly how Jews define themselves as if you didn’t know.

          • David Ashton

            Maternal line plus circumcision.

          • Bartek

            One war after another, one nation driven into debt after another, and who is the beneficiary?
            It’s just clever and intelligent, don’t criticize it! Just some stupid ‘sheep’ dying and suffering anyways, no great loss.
            Egads!

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            In the case of the Ukraine, food was used as a weapon of war against the Ukrainians who as a group, resisted collectivization:

            “Not many of you know that Stalin, Lenin, Marx, Trotsky were all Jews. Most of the murders committed during the Soviet holocaust were committed by Jews.

            Jewish Bolshevik made any form of Anti-Semitism illegal and punished it by death. Accusations of anti Semitism were not investigated. Alleged usurpers were either directly executed or sent to one of the Gulags, the real extermination camps run by Jews.

            While exact figures will never be known, more than 100 Million people, mostly Slavic Christians perished during the wide spread ethnic cleansing imposed upon Russia by the Jewish Bolsheviks during the 74 years of the Jews sponsored totalitarian communism. The vast number of innocent people massacred by the Jews was so great, it remains and will likely forever be the greatest mass murder in human history.”

            – Captain Ajit Vadakayil

            httpCOLON//wwwDOTdarkmoonDOTme/2011/crimes-of-the-bolsheviks-edited-by-isabella-fanfani/

          • David Ashton

            Stalin may have had some distant Mountain Jew ancestry in his mixed heritage, but there is no proof that he was Jewish by halachic criteria, upbringing or outlook. The two quotations to the contrary by given by Colin Jordan in “Fraudulent Conversion” are mistaken. Such assertions, and statistical exaggerations of human losses in the USSR, detract from the credibility that should be accorded to the role of Jews in the Soviet secret police and labor-camp organisation.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            It was part of the quote, I meant to remove it. I do not believe Stalin was Jewish and have seen no proof of such.

          • Anna Tree

            The quote may tell the truth, but the fact that the guy claimed Stalin was a Jew could mean there are other untruths… you removing the part or not.

            There is enough bad things done by some/many Jews, no need to add false ones. And not only regarding Jews but in any matters…

          • Nancy Thomas

            I suspect this is true. The central bankers want the entire world to be under their control.

          • jayvbellis

            Winston Churchill – hardly an anti Semite, wrote openly that Communism and other related movements like anarchism were disproportionately Jewish led in Russia, Eastern Europe and Central Europe.

            Churchill proposed Zionism as an alternative to Communism in the struggle for the soul of the Jewish people.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Let’s put up exactly what Churchill wrote, shall we?

            Winston Churchill, for one, warned in an article published in the February 8, 1920, issue of the London Illustrated Sunday Herald that Bolshevism is a “worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality.” The eminent British political leader and historian went on to write:”

            “There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews.”

            You might want to look up WHO paid off Churchill’s massive gambling debts in the 20s. He was beholden to those who did, who wanted WW II and Churchill delivered England into another internecine war. Churchill was a war criminal.

          • David Ashton

            I think the real pressure on Churchill came in the later 1930s though it also coincided with growing apprehensions about Nazi foreign policy and the burning of synagogues, etc.

            An important factor was the “Focus Group” (see Irving on this). A curious thing: when much younger I was browsing through a s/h bookshop in London and came across a pile of booklets with light blue covers, which appeared to contain the minutes or other details about this war lobby, and then vaguely sensed their rarity and importance, but the sale price was too exorbitant, and I sadly left this treasure in the shop. Still, luck strikes in other ways: just a few years ago I picked up an original copy in good condition of Kaufman’s “Germany Must Perish!” for a few quid in a Norfolk bookshop.

          • Nancy Thomas

            He flipped after they bought him off.

          • David Ashton

            “Most Jews [left in the Russian Empire] maintained their traditional religious and cultural affiliations. Some became secularists and joined the Jewish Labour Bund…. A smaller number became involved in the Russian Social Democratic Party which soon split into Mensheviks and Bolsheviks…. When the Bolsheviks came to power in 1917, six of the twenty-one members of the Central Committee were Jewish…. Jews also comprised 16.6 per cent of the leading 250 revolutionaries…. In the Ukraine approximately 75 per cent of the Kiev Cheka [secret police used to crush opposition] were Jewish. According to Leonard Schapiro, as late as December 1937, at least 11 per cent of Cheka [GPU/NKVD] members were Jews.” – Philip Mendes, author of “The New Left, the Jews and the Vietnam War 1965-1972” (1993), in “Patterns of Prejudice” [Institute of Jewish Policy Research], April 1996, pp.59-60.

          • JohnEngelman

            On several occasions I have explained why Marxism was often appealing to Jews who lost their religious faith. Nevertheless, Jews were never in the majority of the Soviet Communist Party. No Jew was ever the dictator of the Soviet Union.

          • David Ashton

            I have agreed with your partial explanation of the attraction of Marxism to Jews, though there was more to it. Lenin had some Jewish ancestry and the “Lenin Boys” who ruled Hungary for a while were Jews. For more sophisticated analysts than Denis Fahey, David Duke or even Alexander Solzhenitsyn, I would, however, recommend Jonathan Frankel (ed), “Dark Times, Dire Decisions: Jews and Communism” (2005) and Andre Gerrits, “The Myth of Jewish Communism” (2009). Some leisure reading for you, after you get home from the Chinese restaurant.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Don’t expect Engelman to read any of it b/c it conflicts with his narrow opinion and false narrative of what he thinks happened before, during and after Russian Revolution; that it was instigated and carried out by White Christian Russians, including the murders of 50 million Russians. In his warped view, the Jews were the victims of the Bolsheviks.

            I am sick of him posting misinformation and half-truths here that he passes off as historical fact when he’s clearly wrong about the causes and aftermath of the Russian Revolution.

          • Geo1metric

            He derides those who recommend the reading of books.

          • JohnEngelman

            I read lots of books, but I compose my own arguments.

          • Nancy Thomas

            The “attraction” can be simplified like this….Marx stupid and useless “economic theory” cannot and will not work, but it places Jews at the top and the rest of us as slaves.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Ignoring facts and data as usual, I see.

            “The reader may wonder why newspapers never mention that Bolshevism is simply a Jewish conquest of Russia. The explanation is that the international news agencies on which papers rely for foreign news are controlled by Jews.”

            – “All These Things,” A.N. Field; “The Rulers of Russia,” Denis Fahey, p. 37

            httpCOLON//wwwDOTdarkmoonDOTme/2011/crimes-of-the-bolsheviks-edited-by-isabella-fanfani/

          • JohnEngelman

            What facts? What data? Anyone who says that Jews control international news agencies is not a credible authority.

            Jews do not control international news agencies. They are prominent because of their superior intelligence.

          • Nancy Thomas

            You are so FOS, I don’t see how you function in the real world.
            There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more gentile’s with high IQ’s than Jews with high IQ’s. A quick search can confirm this.
            By sheer numbers we have huge numbers of high IQ people, that far outnumber the total of all the Jewish people on the earth.
            The only thing holding us back is your fear and stupidity.

          • Geo1metric

            Excellent point about the absolute number of high IQ people.

            I have made that point to JE previously, but of course he ignores it and continues to say that the reason there are a disproportionate number of Jews in the Ivy League is because of their “superior” intelligence. That is patently false.

            Facts don’t matter to an ideologue. Ignore him; maybe he’ll go away.

          • bilderbuster

            Lenin was Jewish on his mother’s side and Jews comprised almost the entire leadership of the first Soviet government.
            Putin referred to this fact in a speech to Jewish fanatics last June Mr. Engleman.
            I find it difficult to believe these facts have escaped from an educated gentleman such as yourself.

          • Geo1metric

            Being capable of dropping quotes out of Wikipedia does not mean you are “educated”.

          • David Ashton

            JE could find adverse data he demands about Jews on the internet, if he troubled to search. Not being his slave nor an anti-Semitic obsessive myself I am not going to do this for him.

          • Geo1metric

            Nor am I “anti-Semitic obsessive”.

            As I have stated many times on this forum, I am not anti-any race, I am simply advocating the best possible situation for my race, much like Jews do.

          • David Ashton

            Agree.

          • JohnEngelman

            Those who make factual assertions have the obligation to document them, as I do.

          • David Ashton

            Yes, indeed (ignoring the AS you do bit). This has been done either directly here or in references to thorough documentation you and others can easily consult. Predictably to no avail. This really is my final comment on your stubborn recitations.

          • Martel

            Claiming you document your assertions is a bit of a stretch, you repeat a small number of article clippings, and often copy paste your commentary, or rewrite them almost fully consistent in language with earlier remarks. Seriously to the few folks who disagree, look at his posting history.

          • JohnEngelman

            I document my factual assertions from a large number of sources, many of which I have found on this website. When have I ever made a factual assertion that is not true?

          • Martel

            No you don’t, all sources you use I have seen an endless amount of times, you must have used the same Derbyshire quote about a 100 times by now.

          • bilderbuster

            Half truths are hardly factual and are intentionally misleading in your case.

          • JohnEngelman

            List several half truths I have posted.

          • bilderbuster

            You stated above that Jews were never the majority of the membership of the communist party in the USSR.
            Obviously that’s true AND intentionally misleading as you well know that Jews were almost the entire leadership of the communist party and it’s security apparatus.
            Much more than the modest 80% that Putin gave them credit for.

          • JohnEngelman

            I prefer to quote material I have found on American Renaissance, and authors who have spoken at American Renaissance conferences.

          • Nancy Thomas

            This is common knowledge. A cursory look at the topic tells us that the Soviet monster was in fact a JEWISH led monster.

            You know what? This is a total waste of time. My posts will be removed, and John will continue to lie and sling BS.
            It’s a waste of time.

          • bilderbuster

            From the beginning.
            Marx was indoctrinated from his long family lineage of rabbis and communism and the “Russian” Revolution were entirely financed by Jewish uber capitalism.
            At the time of the Revolution it was known as a Jewish coup.
            They down play it to the Gentile public but in their own books they are quite proud and openly boast about this fact.

          • Nancy Thomas

            Typical use of gentile frontmen. Everyone who has ANY intellectual integrity knows and admits that the failed Soviet experiment was a Jewish movement, period.
            Don’t bother to reply, I won’t read it. I trust Solzhenitsyn a great deal more than I trust you.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Your lack of knowledge about the Russian Revolution is glaring.

            “In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the membership of the Soviet communist party was Jewish, though Jews comprised only 1.8 percent of the total population”

            – Stuart Kahan, The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81

            Prove where Mr. Kahan is wrong, Engleman.

            “Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country’s total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating the Soviet government during its early years. The facts cannot be denied.”

            “With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party’s executive secretary and — as chairman of the Central Executive Committee — head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.”

            “Lenin himself was of mostly Russian and Kalmuck ancestry, but he was also one-quarter Jewish.”

            –Metapedia.

            Prove Medapedia wrong, Engleman.

            “The whole record of Bolshevism in Russia is indelibly impressed with the stamp of an alien invasion. The murder of the Tsar, deliberately planned by the Jew Sverdlov, and carried out by the Jews Goloshchekin, Syromolotov, Safarov, Voikov, and Yorovsky, is the act not of the Russan people, but of this hostile invader.”

            –Robert Wilton,The Fall of the Romanovs, p.148.

            You are obviously more knowledgeable than Mr. Wilton. Show us the facts where he’s wrong.

            According to Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago, 66 million Russian Christians were put to death on the orders of the Cheka or Russian secret police. Those devising the tortures, and giving the orders to rape and kill ethnic Russians, were mostly Jews. Yuri Slezkine’s candid quote from historian Leonard Shapiro is too well known to be casually dismissed: “Anyone who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of the Cheka stood a very good chance of finding himself confronted with and possibly shot by a Jewish investigator.”

            Out of 388 members of the new revolutionary government in Russia, only sixteen were real Russians. “Apart from one negro,” we are told, “the rest were Jews.”

            Where is Solzhenitsyn wrong, Engelman? He suffered terribly under those Bolsheviks that you claim were “White Russians” when clearly they were not.

            He had this to say about the murderous Bolshevik regime:

            “You must understand. The leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They Hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse…

            Your turn.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            13 hours. Still waiting for a response from Engelman.

          • David Ashton

            Anyone can quote bits from books they agree with. Even the same old quotations from the same very few books. E.g. John Engelman and Eric Hoffer.

          • JohnEngelman

            You have read enough of my posts to know that I frequently quote Jared Taylor, Professor J. Philippe Rushton, John Derbyshire, Arthur Jensen, and Richard Lynn, among others.

          • David Ashton

            Yes, I have said so elsewhere. My basic observation stands.

          • Geo1metric

            I am more convinced that it is a robot.

            It keys on certain words and spews forth the same responses.

          • Nancy Thomas

            The Bolsheviks were majority Jews. Communism/leftism IS from Jewish intellectuals. Facts. I could write a treatise on this topic, but you won’t own up to it anyway.

          • JohnEngelman

            It is tedious to try to push facts into narrow minds, especially when those narrow minds are dominated by fear, anger, and hatred.

          • David Ashton

            Or even those narrow minds, not so dominated.

          • David Ashton

            Would you also agree that some of the best criticisms of Marxism in theory (e.g. M.M. Bober) and Marxism-Leninism in practice (e.g. D.J. Dallin) have come from Jews?

        • tlk244182

          Am now reading H. Ford’s “The International Jew” and I’m surprised at how even-handed and un-emotional it is. Because of his apparently fair analysis (eg Chap 3, Jewish History in the United States,p.37) I am actually more favorably disposed to Jews as a result of his book, (though I’m just starting it.) I could say the same for K. MacDonald, who converted me from a naive philo-semitism to what I trust is a rational form of anti-semitism. And I’m frankly surprised that an intellect of J.Engleman’s caliber would be satisfied with the sophomoric analysis of Eric Hoffer, whom he cites below.

          • Guest

            “…that an intellect of J.Engleman’s caliber…”. That would be pseudo-intellect.

          • Geo1metric

            Cicero and Tacitus are both good reads.

          • JohnEngelman

            Anyone can find something written by someone else that they agree with.

            Please present the basic argument of “The International Jew” in your own words, using the internet only to substantiate factual assertions. If you cannot do that, you don’t understand it.

          • tlk244182

            Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. I mentioned Ford’s book as evidence of ZS’s assertion that antisemitism is neither irrational nor hate for hate’s sake, which are two common enough beliefs of anti-antisemites, and which Ford discusses in Chapter V. I dont claim to understand Ford’s argument, but merely to have the impression that it is rational and fair, the same way I might feel a trial is being conducted fairly, even though the verdict is unknown, or turns on points of law I dont understand. What I do claim is that Hoffer’s analysis is superficial (as is Sartre’s,) and that you are perceptive enough to easily see the superficiality. I offer Ford’s book as well as MacDonald’s work as evidence that Hoffer and Sartre misunderstand “antisemitism.”

          • JohnEngelman

            Henry Ford was ignorant of most things beyond his company. Once, during a trial he revealed that he thought the American Revolution happened during the 1820’s.

            I keep waiting for someone to post credible studies that Jews tend to be less moral than Gentiles. No one has. Do Jews have higher crime rates than Gentiles? Prove it. Are Jewish businessmen and financiers less honest than Gentile businessmen and financiers? Prove it.

          • I’m not asking this sarcastically. What is your factual summation rebuttal against ‘The Culture of Critique’? And I do mean factual, not something about motives or dodges about there not really being some massive worldwide conspiracy, or that the Tribe is not all powerful and responsible for all ills in society–things that ‘CofC’ does NOT claim anyway. But, again, what is your factual answer to that book?

          • David Ashton

            Engelman doesn’t believe in reading much if anything outside his box. He is “confident” that he already knows the “truth”. Even his “race realist” credentials are limited and mostly dated. I doubt he would even trouble to read Kevin MacDonald’s “Culture of Critique” (2002 ed), though I think he has looked at Richard Lynn’s “Chosen People” (2011), both books being important in the select minimum short-list of (albeit imperfect, though scholarly) works on “antisemitism” I detailed on another website.

            The others are: Bernard Lazare, “Anti-Semitism” (1995 ed); Albert Lindemann, “Esau’s Tears” (1997); Julius Carlebach, “Karl Marx & the Radical Critique of Judaism” (1978); Jerry Muller, “Capitalism & the Jews” (2010); Andre Gerrits, “The Myth of Jewish Communism” (2009); Sharman Kadish, “Bolsheviks & British Jews” (1992); Cesare De Michelis, “The Non-Existent Manuscript: A study of the Protocols…” (2004); Peter Schafer, “Jesus in the Talmud” (2007); Norman Cantor, “The Sacred Chain” (1995); & Gilad Atzmon, “The Wandering Who?” (2011).

          • Luca

            Engelman, by his own admission, became a race realist only after being mugged by blacks.

            I’m waiting for the day he is mugged by a rabbi and an economist so he will become a little more of a realist regarding a couple of other subjects.

          • David Ashton

            He will laboriously explain that this prospect is unlikely because rabbis are good and economists are clever. Despite his courteous references to my “challenge” I find his contributions repetitive to the point of excruciating boredom. He suffers from solipsism.

          • Luca

            He’s an antagonist simply for the sake of attention. I have reduced my replies to him considerably. He never admits when he may have been wrong on an issue.

            Being articulate, polite and pasting charts does not make your argument a convincing one.

          • JohnEngelman

            Skill with written English, courtesy, and erudition makes arguments more convincing to reasonable people than insults.

          • Luca

            And using facts, common sense and logic would help you immensely. Repeating party lines, using narrow, cherry-picked facts and chanting are no substitute for reasoning skills.

            You would have made a terrible lawyer.

          • JohnEngelman

            The following quotes, which I have frequently posted from Professor J. Philippe Rushton’s RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR, cannot be dismissed as “party lines” of liberalism, “Cultural Marxism,” or the Frankfurt School:

            “Modern science shows a three-way pattern of race differences in both physical traits and behavior. On average, Orientals are slower to mature, less fertile, less sexually active, less aggressive, and have larger brains and higher IQ scores. Blacks are at the other pole. Whites fall in the middle, but closer to Orientals than to Blacks…

            “Race differences start in the womb. Blacks are born earlier and grow quicker than Whites and Orientals. The three-way race pattern occurs in milestones such as sexual maturity, family stability, crime rates, and population growth.

            “Race differences exist in sexual behavior. The races differ in how often they like to have sexual intercourse. This affects
            rates of sexually transmitted diseases. On all the counts, Orientals are the least sexually active, Blacks the most, and Whites are in between.”

            Just because you do not want to believe in the facts I post here does not mean that they are not true.

          • Luca

            Your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything that I posted, it is in no way a rebuttal, a response or a reply. But I’m sure it made you feel important and appeared to you like you accomplished something.

          • JohnEngelman

            This is what you posted: “And using facts, common sense and logic would help you immensely. Repeating party lines, using narrow, cherry-picked facts and chanting are no substitute for reasoning skills.”

            I pointed out that many of the factual assertions I use come from this website.

            My common sense comes from positive experiences in my life with Orientals and Jews I have known.

            I challenge you or anyone else to find logical fallacies in my reasoning.

            The only “party line” I express here consists of the basic assertions of race realism, as expressed expressed by Professor J. Philippe Rushton.

          • Geo1metric

            Ignore it and maybe it will go away.

          • An interesting and worthy list, thank you.

          • David Ashton

            Thank you too. Engelman’s reading range is limited, and he just churns out the same old bits from AmRen notables, Hoffer, Hitler & almost nothing else. His education seems to have stopped tears ago, and he has no intention of broadening knowledge now, whether it is the subject of Chinese criminality, or communist subversion and espionage, even from the internet.

          • tlk244182

            If Ford was ignorant, he was good at hiding it. I would be very surprised if he really thought that the Revolution occurred in 1820. I havent gotten to the part in the book where he says Jews are less honest than Gentiles, but I have read where he says the Jews have a “hard” view of business. In other words, they are NOT less moral, they merely take what they regard as rightfully theirs. They play hardball. [page 37]
            But I’m still not making myself clear. My point isnt that Ford is right, but merely that he is rational and fair, not at all what I expected to find. I was raised to believe that anti Semites are all spittle flecked lunatics. Once this is proven false, once it is shown that a man can be rational, fair, tolerant, AND an ‘anti Semite,’ Jews will have lost the use of a very powerful psychological weapon, and their alarm at that prospect is perfectly understandable.

          • JohnEngelman

            To say that “the Jews” “play hardball” is a back handed way of acknowledging that they are formidable business rivals. By being a formidable business rival Bill Gates – a Gentile – built one of the most successful corporations in the world.

          • tlk244182

            No question they are formidable rivals, and not just in business. Nothing backhanded was intended by “hardball.” Do you read what I write, or just skim it looking for hooks?

          • Luca

            Where did they get their universal stereotypes from? Where they just made up from thin air? Doesn’t common knowledge account for anything or must you always see a chart and read a poll?

            Stereotypes are earned, they may not be thoroughly accurate or all encompassing, they may be exaggerated, but they all are usually based upon a considerable amount of truths.

            In your eyes, they are divine flawless angels. In my eyes, they are a composition of the good, the bad and the ugly. I don’t deny their good traits but I certainly don’t deny the bad either.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            “Henry Ford was ignorant of most things beyond his company.”

            How do you know? Prove it. Cite your source and present it.

            Prove it, Engelman.

          • bilderbuster

            Their Talmud proves that there is Jewish law that gives Jews carte blanche to commit all sorts of immoral and criminal acts against Gentiles.

          • Geo1metric

            And your president Obama thinks there are 57 states.

          • David Ashton

            Same old silly Engelman challenge. “I won’t read it. You must summarize all four volumes and their ‘evidence’ here on an AmRen, and if you don’t you are more stupid than I am.”

            I personally do not think a great deal of “The International Jew” except for a number of individual passages, but Engelman you should get out more – out of your box – and use the local library and internet searching to extend your knowledge from the “vain repetitions” that have mostly been refuted here.

          • JohnEngelman

            Anyone can find something written by someone else that they agree with. Throwing books back and forth gets tedious. When someone tells me to read something I know that they are incapable of refuting my argument, so I have won.

            I keep asking for facts drawn from credible sources that indicate that by any reasonable criterion Jews tend to be less moral than Gentiles. No one presents the facts.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            There you go.

            Facts, data and evidence have been presented to you for years on this forum but you CHOOSE to ignore it all which proves that you are a phony and a fraud passing off misinformation as fact.

            You have a right to your OPINION but not your own facts.

            I haven’t seen one instance where you’ve backed up your OPINIONS with facts, data or evidence, not once! That makes you a fraud and a phony.

          • JohnEngelman

            Do you disagree with Professor J. Philippe Rushton, who spoke at six American Renaissance conferences? I frequently quote his assertions, found in “RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR,” that Orientals tend to be more intelligent than whites, and less prone to crime and sexual irresponsibility.

            Do you disagree with The Color of Crime, which was published by American Renaissance? I frequently quote this from that essay, “Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.”

            If I have ever made a factual assertion that is not true, or if I have ever committed a logical fallacy, please point it out. I am always trying to improve the validity of my arguments.

          • David Ashton

            Same old, same old first paragraph – verbatim. You “know” you have “won” BECAUSE you won’t consult contrary information!! As close to solipsistic as you can get.

          • JohnEngelman

            Where is the contrary information that indicates that I am mistaken? Post it.

            Just because I have different likes and dislikes than you do does not mean that my factual assertions are not true.

          • Martel

            An example of odd behavior, a grown man claiming victory over someone presenting a book?

            It as odd as the time when you referred to upvotes to claim victory. Facts have been presented numerous times.

          • Geo1metric

            Ignore him. Please.

          • JohnEngelman

            When have you or anyone else posted documented facts that have demonstrated that I am mistaken about anything?

          • Martel

            You can look up many of our older discussions, I wonder if you even remember it at all. Often in our discussions you lose track only hours after the matter.Your theory cannot possibly be correct, they defy all critical evidence on the matter. It does not explain ”antisemitism”, and therefore definitely cannot bring any solutions.

          • JohnEngelman

            Where is the evidence of which you speak? I am still waiting for credible evidence that Jews tend to be less moral than white Gentiles.

            Thee are only three areas where Jews differ from white Gentiles. They have a different religion. They tend to be more intelligent. They tend to be more prosperous as a result.

          • Martel

            Its not even two hours after I said that I never claimed Jews are less moral then gentiles. Did you seriously forget already?

            The differences are obviously greater then this, no serious race realist would claim these are all differences, nor would anyone who has studied the Jewish-European gentile relationship.

          • David Ashton

            Since all humans have different degrees of intelligence and not all humans are Jews, intelligence levels cannot in themselves distinguish Jews from anyone else. The only other criterion our self-appointed expert provides to distinguish Jews from other people is their “religion”, presumably some form of Judaism. But there are many people who identify themselves as Jews and are so recognized by others, who have no religious beliefs in any normal sense, or who practice other religions. So even at this simple level, JE is mistaken.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Why do you continue to post the obvious lie that the Bolshevik Revolution was led by Whites or White Russians?

            You are 100% wrong but ignore facts and data that have been repeatedly presented to you.

          • JohnEngelman

            On several occasions I have explained why Marxism was often appealing to Jews who lost their religious faith. I have also documented that while the percentage of Jews in the Soviet Communist Party was higher than the percentage of Jews in the Soviet population, Jews still represented a fairly small minority of Soviet Communist Party members. No Jew was ever the dictator of the Soviet Union.

            If you think my assertions are lies that is because you refuse to accept facts that conflict with what you want to believe.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            You are profoundly wrong. Jews made up the vast majority of the ?Communist leadership, the ones who gave the orders.

            Really,John, I wish you’d stop wasting my time and every other commenter here with your misinformation. You lack basic knowledge on many things, the Bolshevik Revolution, WW II, the Rosenbergs, and more,

            “In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the membership of the Soviet communist party was Jewish, though Jews comprised only 1.8 percent of the total population”

            – Stuart Kahan, The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81

            Explain on what planet that 52% is not a majority? Profound, considering Jews made up only 1.8 percent of the population.

            Is Putin wrong, John? How about Solzhenitsyn? Is he wrong? He lived through and personally witnessed the Bolshevik Revolution. Did you? Where is Solzhenitsyn wrong?

            Both say that the majority of the Bolshevik revolution was instigated by Jews.

            Feel free to present your own data, not your OPINION or what you think may be true, from reliable sources that shows where Putin is wrong, that Jews didn’t make up the majority of the government after the revolution.

            “Russian president Vladimir Putin has said that Jews made up ’80 to 85 percent of the first government of the Soviet Union’ following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.

            “You must understand. The leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They Hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse…More of my countrymen suffered horrific crimes at their bloodstained hands than any people or nation ever suffered in the entirety of human history. It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time. The fact that most of the world is ignorant and uncaring about this enormous crime is proof that the global media is in the hands of its perpetrators.”

            –Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn who himself suffered greatly in the Jewish-run Gulags, and who later won the Nobel Prize, stated these powerful words.

            I can post this until AR goes out of business but you’ll still deny facts, hard data and empirical evidence no matter how many times it is presented to you.

          • Geo1metric

            “Jews still represented a fairly small minority of Soviet Communist Party members.” JE

            Notice how this statement ignores the percentage of Jews in the Leadership of the Soviet communists. Typical.

          • Geo1metric

            “When someone tells me to read something I know that they are incapable of refuting my argument, so I have won.”

            I have vowed not to respond to you anymore, but I am compelled to at this point.

            That statement of yours which I have quoted above, is the most ignorant thing I have seen in print.

          • JohnEngelman

            What am I ignorant of?

            I do not claim to know everything, but I think I am reasonably well informed. My arguments are fact based and logical. I document important factual assertions by posting links to credible sources, many of which I have found on American Renaissance.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            He has no refutation and he knows it so he throws out the usual canard of demanding that YOU prove what Ford wrote instead.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            I’d like you to quote exactly where Mr. Ford is wrong. Cite page number and passage. Do the same for Culture of Critique while you’re at it. Prove Kevin MacDonald’s research is wrong with your own research using facts and data not your usual OPINION that you pass off as fact.

            It is up to you to disprove Ford and point out exactly where he is wrong. He’s stated what he stated so put up or shut up.

          • David Ashton

            With respect, I don’t think there is space or time here to go all through either CofC or TIJ pointing out the best or worst bits, but Engelman has a closed mind, and is a time-waster. It wouldn’t do him any harm to give close attention at least to MacDonald’s main book, never mind those on the list I have provided which will inform both “anti-Semites” and their opponents with factual details and thought-provoking arguments.

          • Geo1metric

            I encourage all here to simply ignore JE.

            You are right that he is a waste of time, and to respond to his inanities simply encourages more of them.

          • Laika

            It is difficult to let misinformation stand. If we do, it appears that THAT is the prevailing wisdom of the Whites who frequent and visit this site. Why Engelman hasn’t been banned is beyond me. Surely AR must be losing donations and readers due to this.

          • Geo1metric

            “It is difficult to let misinformation stand. ”

            I agree totally; but I can think of no other way to get rid of him. Responding to him only encourages him.

            If we all simply ignore him, I suspect he will tire of it and go.

          • Laika

            Then why do we keep having to repost it here again and again on thread after thread? I blame AR itself for allowing Engelman to run his mouth – for years – about things he knows nothing about.

            It is a time waster and takes our focus about what is important: Preventing the genocide of our race and loss of our homelands through massive 3rd world immigration.

          • JohnEngelman

            You have the obligation to present the arguments of Henry Ford and Kevin MacDonald in your own words. Writings attributed to Henry Ford about Jews appear to have been ghost written. He later repudiated many of them.

            From what I have read of Kevin MacDonald’s writings, they seem to consist of broad generalizations with little or nothing in the way of factual substantiation.

            When I praise Jews as a group it is easy for me to document that they tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles, and more prosperous as a result.

            No one has ever demonstrated that by any commonly accepted criterion Jews tend to be less moral than white Gentiles. Pointing out that Jews tend to be liberal Democrats cuts no ice with me. I am liberal on most issues. I always vote Democrat.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            So typical of you lefties. Commenting and making judgments about things you know nothing about and books you haven’t bothered to read.

        • Anna Tree

          Zaporizhian, I believe that your dislike about Jews is neither irrational nor hate for hate’s sake. You have the right to dislike whomever you want. But race should be above any dislike or ideology.

          What will happen to the whites if we cannot put aside the past, where we all fought, killed, mass-killed, raped each others?

          For the sake of our race and to facilitate/strenghten our future white nations, we have to let go. I don’t mean to forget/forgive those who now are anti-white, harm us and want our genocide. I mean to forgive the descendants of those who did crimes to us in the past, as long as they are pro-white whites. Not to forget but forgive.

          Catholics and Prostestants did horrible crimes to each others. As did Nazis and Communists. French and English. Monarchists and Revolutionists. Walloons and Flemish. Spanish and Basques. Scottish and English. Germans and Polish. Serbes and Bulgarians. Czechoslovakians and Hungarians. etc etc

          Should one group never forgive the crimes of the other and hardship or endanger the future of all of us whites?

          Moreover when our enemies are so able to put aside their hatred and differences and unite against us. Why shouldn’t we? Why can’t we? We must, I think.

          Don’t love the Jews, but accept that some Jews are white and pro-white, racialist and even white nationalist or supremacist, therefor is it fair to detest all of them? What about those who converted to Judaism or those who apostated or those who have a great great great whatever ancestor who was Jewish? The DNA should be the key for a racialist. If one is white and pro-white, he is an ally in my eyes.

          Again I completely understand the anger against Jews. In the like manner I understand the anger against white women, intellectuals and liberals. I myself am angry towards any anti-white pro-diversity Jew, woman, intellectual and liberal, more than angry, momy-bear angry: they are harming my children and I am and will do everything I can against them, right now with my pen but I know sadly one day it will be beyond. But In the same way that not all white women, intellectuals and liberals are our enemies, I think not all white jews are our enemy. I don’t want to throw the baby with the dirty water.

          Future white countries will obviously need white women. But I think we will need also the white racialist intellectuals, liberals and jews.

          This is because I hold race above all ideologies.

          The traitors won’t be welcomed (those who have publicly or directly been against whites) but I think all whites should be. We are not enough to do otherwise. And again race is above ideology: the same way I regret ww2, I would regret any future disunity between whites, moreover violent. When all break loose, those who realized the truth should I think, fight for us against the non-whites (and white traitors).

        • Alexandra1973

          I’m half Polish and I don’t hate them, but then again I’m only 41.

          Should check out what the Ustachi did. Those were Catholics.

      • Martel

        Its not easy at all, in fact, it is impossible. This has been made clear by our former debates where you had nothing to offer. Standard assumptions about anti Semitism are wrong, there is no doubt about this. The single theory you proposed does not even apply to me, nor too the many I am converting.

        • JohnEngelman

          I keep asking for surveys from credible sources that indicate that Jews on the average are less moral than Gentiles. No one provides them.

          It is easy for me to demonstrate, using material I have found on American Renaissance, that Orientals tend to have lower rates of crime and illegitimacy than whites.

          Do Jewish businessmen and financiers tend to be less honest than Gentile businessmen and financiers? Prove it.

          • Martel

            I never said Jews are less moral then gentiles, according to your ”analysis”, gentiles are less moral then gentiles. This is what forces you to deny that both gentiles and jews contributed to the conflicts.

            It is not easy for you to demonstrate anything about Asian crime, if so, the FBI and national gang center want to talk to you, because they sure don’t.Asians are more likely then whites to be part of a gang, it has been documented that they mainly victimize other Asians, and that Asians are highly unlikely to report crimes, it is claimed by several sources that this is due to their distrust of non Asians or law enforcement, but looking at their home countries, corrupt to the core, its clear what the real cause of this problem is. Its not unexpected when Asian frauds turn out to be heroes in their little chinatowns as a recent article on Amren discussed. Its impossible to know what the actual crime rate amongst Asians is.

            Is there such a thing as a survey on ”Jewish vs gentile morality”?

            I suppose you mean works like The Authoritarian Personality, a document born out of Jewish bigotry which had an enormous impact on the American intelligentsia, stimulating current discriminatory views on white gentiles in US universities.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            It’s certainly moral to begin a revolution in Russia and across Eastern Europe where 50 million White Christian Russians and Ukrainians were slaughtered before it was over.

            It was certainly moral to with hold and confiscate food in the Ukraine so 10 million people could starve to death because they refused to collectivize.

            It’s certainly moral to cover up black on white atrocities in the U.S. and South Africa by all major media, which are not white-owned.

            If that’s your idea of moral, you need to take a tour of this site to show what happens when those you praise and favor either rule over whites or turn over entire white-run countries to blacks.

            httpCOLON//wwwDOTgenocidewatchDOTorg/southafricaDOThtml

            But, as usual, you’ll ignore anything that goes against your narrow world view and set, dogmatic and wrong opinion of how things are in the world and continue on claiming no one ever presents you with facts and data.

            Don’t worry John, my posts will be continue to be deleted while yours will be left to stand which shows this forum allows disinformation to stand.

      • Nancy Thomas

        John,
        You might want to read “The Culture of Critique.”

        • JohnEngelman

          What I want is for you to compose your own arguments. If you can’t do that, at least you could convey the argument found in “The Culture of Critique.”

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            You claim repeatedly that J doesn’t own the media top to bottom and that the Bolshevik Revolution wasn’t instigated and carried out by Js.

            The data and evidence have been shown to you repeatedly which you ignore…and then go on to the next thread and repeat the same disinformation.

            I notice that my posts and others pointing out where you are wrong have been deleted. AR must like you spreading misinformation across its forum because they keep posts that show how wrong you are.

    • Oil Can Harry

      I applaud pro-free speech Jews like Harvey Silverglate and Nat Hentoff.
      Now let the rest of that community show their support for liberty by boycotting the putrid ADL, forcing them to close shop and get real jobs.

      • NotAnEskimo

        I’m a Jew and I will never give a dime to the ADL, the Jewish Federation or any of these type of anti-American, anti-white groups.

        On the subject of Jewish lawyers, I would like to take a moment to give a big “thank you” to two Jewish lawyers, Alan Gura and Roert Levy. Without their efforts there would be no enforceable right to keep and bear arms.

      • Steven Bannister

        And THAT is basically the approach to Jews that all white Gentiles should have: If you’re a decent person who loves the country and who’s not trying to destroy the white race, then we have no problem with you. But if you’re a social agitator who promotes open borders, political correctness and miscegenation, well, now we have a problem.

        • Grantland

          That’s incredibly naive. They can be anything you’d approve of, anytime, effortlessly. They’re popping up as “white nationalists” right now, like loathesome toadstools.

          • Bartek

            I feel it is in a supervisory capacity. Their is no real interest, it basically boils down to being monitored.
            It is creating a stifling environment that is limiting discussion and debate.
            Did Sheldon Adelson make a contribution?

          • David Ashton

            Any self-interested switch in Jewish opinion is not as important as whether actually it harms or hinders “white nationalism” so long as it does not dictate or control the whole agenda. It is better to have Jews on our side than against us. We must appreciate the element of “never again” fear that influences their post-WW2 outlook as well as opposing detrimental actions and ambitions among their far from homogeneous “community”.

          • Grantland

            You go for the truce then, Doc. The rest of us will be sharpening our swords.

          • David Ashton

            And they will be more interested in preventing your attack, and the cycle of conflict will continue, while the Chinese watch, the Muslims pour in and the Africans multiply. When you come a-huntin’ may I expect you to include me too among the “disgusting freaks” you would like to decapitate?

          • Bartek

            Which well recognized voting block encouraged all those anti White policies en mass already (eg. outsourcing, vibrancy, humanitarian aid, open borders)?
            If overwhelming support of those policies isn’t an act of war, what is?

          • Grantland

            Quite wrong. What attack? Decapitate? We didn’t start the fire.

          • David Ashton

            Swords for what purpose? Is this a mere metaphor, because in that case I have my own record of sharp criticisms of deplorable activities by Jews (and others). Some powerful Jews spend their time and money preventing opposition, or exposing foolish and violent opponents, but discrediting reasonable critics in the process. Why help them?

          • IstvanIN

            The whole “never again” thing has been used against the US, which:
            1) saved them in WW2.
            2) is the best country in the world for Jews, including Israel.

            Yet they want to destroy White America. What gratitude.

          • Geo1metric

            Never expect “gratitude”. Surely you’ve heard that “no good deed goes unpunished”.

    • Daniel Schmuhl

      That doesn’t really mean that the generalizations made about Jews and free speech are necessarily wrong.

      • a multiracial individual

        Of course you are correct. Though, I suspect the ratio is not as high as some think.

        • indoctrination_FAIL

          You’re a name-calling, preschooler “hater” yourself, “Multi”. And, of course, a troll.

      • Grantland

        That’s not it at all. They’re there to be pointed at, to gull the goyim.

      • David Ashton

        James Petras is among those who have given chapter and verse of Zionist influence on politics and opinion, and David Horowitz among those who have given comparable details of Leftist influence on education and politics. It is not just the open-market opinion free-for-all claimed by Engelman.

    • jayvbellis

      Ezra Levant J in Canada has done a great job fighting for free speech against PC thought crime persecutions.

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        Check closely at WHO forced through the implementation of hate speech crimes in Canada and WHO sits on the commission to this day.

    • Two Jewish lawyers protecting free speech–stop the presses!

    • bilderbuster

      Releasing a press statement isn’t exactly “protection”.
      The ADL is supporting this bill with it’s powerful and extremely well funded and influential lobby.
      It wouldn’t surprise me at all if these “protectors” of free speech privately support the ADL and voted for and have financially funded Markey in the past and in Dershowitz’s case I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is.

    • Laika

      Those who push, and push hard for hate speech crimes are Jews. In many countries now even questioning the set, pat and dogmatic Holocaust narrative in any way means jail time. Hint: It wasn’t Whites who put these laws into effect.

  • Rhialto

    This and the preceding item about SPLC activities show that Internet freedom is a real and present danger to the Liberals. Therefore, the Liberals are trying to destroy this threat. The vital issue is whether the Liberals will be successful.

    • Bartek

      Speech on the Internet is also limited and restricted.
      I have yet to see a forum that is not regulated, many times in an arbitrary and capricious manner.
      Internet “Free speech” is only allowed with in proscribed boundaries.
      Mass media in the West is controlled by a very small group of individuals. Three ‘news agencies’ control almost all news coverage in the West.
      They determine which issues are debated, and frame the parameters of the debate.
      Under the guise of ‘freedom’ we are permitted limited small scale access to comment on the issues they have broached in a manners they culturally permit.

      • Geo1metric

        Sheep can roam freely as long as they stay within the fence?

      • IstvanIN

        The forum owner has a right to determine what can and not be discussed on his forum. His forums, his rules. One could also say their is an obligation to keep things civil. The problem is when the government or SPLC tries to shut down free speech on forums they do not own. An additional problem is so called objective “news” outlets that try to steer a conversation a certain way to back up their view, but then that is a case of my forum, my rules.

      • This forum is regulated, but virtually all of the discussions I’ve read here in the last ten years would be shut down on any mainstream media site. Why? Because they’ve been lying to us with increasing frequency, they like doing it, and they want to keep it up. What we have instead online is more a “Baskin Robins 31 Flavors” deal. Anyone who loathes a site like HuffPo can find another with very little effort and thereby save their blood-pressure a beating.

        The notion of a small cabal controlling the internet is, to put it bluntly, silly.

        • Bartek

          A small number of corporations do dominate mass media. That is a fact. Their influence does spread to blogs that gain enough popularity, they become the infamous ‘private investors’.
          A limited group also control and dominate internet commerce and ad revenue. They use that control to influence public policy, that also is a fact.
          Whether they have a ‘right’ to do so is also debatable. Control of mass media (internet ad revenue) are monopolies. Their pervasive influence on thought and debate are real phenomenon (virtual mind control). They pose a very real threat to society and freedom.

          Some government control the press, the West’s tightly held press controls our government. Which way is worse?

          • Certainly the original content comes from a relative handful of news outlets, and those articles are linked here. That said, AmRen – and not the MSM – gets to cherry-pick which articles those are. We are thus NOT being spoon-fed anything and everything they want us to see and read, quite unlike TV. Additionally, the MSM has no control whatever as to what we write about the content they provide for free.

            That’s why the mainstream media positively hates the internet: precisely because they don’t control it.

          • Geo1metric

            Agree, but if Amren ever got to be influential in a big way, I assure you that the elites would crush it.

            As things stand now, we are nothing to them.

          • I am very aware of how things currently stand. This is why I inject high-octane humor into some very P.U. – “Politically Unpleasant” – posts. The way for us to win on the street level is to convince with plain-spoken facts and our own demeanor. Satire often helps, such as my recent post about explosive neck collars.

            As a convicted felon myself, I would not want to wear one of those.

        • QuinnTheEskimo9

          Did you notice that posts refuting Engelman’s misinformation about WW II were deleted and his were left to stand? How is that any different from the CBS, SPLC or CNN forum that does the same exact thing?

  • Luca

    Fee speech might just provoke free thought. People thinking freely for themselves is not something any Liberal Democrat could possibly want. It is just too dangerous and it would make the indoctrinated masses harder to control.

    • JohnEngelman

      During the Cold War it was often dangerous to criticize capitalism, advocate socialism, or defend Communist governments. Those complaining about Communist influence in the government, Hollywood, and other places were stating that Communists and Communist sympathizers should not be allowed to express their opinions.

      The Republican Party was primarily responsible for these restrictions on intellectual freedom.

      • Luca

        If it were “dangerous” to criticize capitalism, advocate socialism, or defend Communist countries then I doubt the US would allow the existence of the Communist Party USA or the Socialist Party USA.

        Conversely however, the USSR did not have a “capitalist party” nor did they allow free speech or demonstrations against the government. Speaking out against the USSR was a guaranteed one-way ticket to a gulag or mental institution.

        Now had you engaged in a little bit of thought before you hit your keyboard, and had you mentioned the Sedition Acts of 1798 and 1918, you would have had a fairly lucid point going for you. Sadly, you didn’t think first. (Nothing new). you just blurted out the first piece of propaganda that you remembered from one of your liberal history books.

        I try not to respond to posts which are just mindless drivel, chants, party slogans and totally lacking in in any logic, reason or historical fact, but I thought maybe this could be a teaching moment for you.

        On the other hand, at least you didn’t rant about high Asian IQ’s.

        • JohnEngelman

          The Big Red Scare was similar to the McCarthy Era. Both inhibited the expression of left wing opinions.

          Both were also completely irrational. There never has been the remotest chance of a Communist dictatorship in the United States.

          • Luca

            You’ve gone from “often dangerous” to “inhibited”. Quite a leap.

            As for a Communist dictatorship in the United States we are closer now than we have ever been and closer than you think or care to admit.

          • JohnEngelman

            Just because most Americans disagree with you on important issues does not mean that a Communist dictatorship is imminent.

            I have known and liked members of the American Communist Party. They were ineffectual dreamers who had difficulty starting a meeting on time, much less overthrowing the U.S. government.

            Those who worry about a Communist takeover should tremble at the more likely danger of being hit by a meteorite.

          • “I have known and liked members of the American Communist Party. They were ineffectual dreamers”

            It is well known by people with experience in these things that on the far Left you have at least two types of people side-by-side, ineffectual dreamers who want a world of peace and love and the real hard cases who know exactly what they are doing. When the Left wins in some country, the hard cases soon purge the dreamers.

          • JohnEngelman

            You are not distinguishing between the democratic left and the totalitarian left. Moreover, there was never any chance that the totalitarian left would come to power in the United States.

          • Yes, I am. I said they are often side-by-side in various organizations. The totalitarian Left is coming to power in the US right now, step-by-step. They just chose ‘marching through the institutions of the West,’ rather than a standard revolution that would have failed here, as you point out.

          • Geo1metric

            It may not be technically “Communist”. Nevertheless, you could say with accuracy that we are closer now to a dictatorship than ever before except perhaps 1861.

          • curmudgeon

            Before now? Many Communist sympathizers in and around the White House today. Lots of red diaper babies in BHO’s inner circle.

          • jayvbellis

            No, but Communist spy rings and extreme anti American Leftists in the media and academia have done extreme damage to,our country.

            The Rosenberg’s did deliver the nuclear bomb plans to the Soviet Union, central and Easter Europe were handed over to the Communists after World War II .

            Woodward and Bernstein and the Washington Post did bring down the Nixon Administration, Viet Nam was then lost to the Communists, white Rhodesia was sold out to Black Marxist tyranny, American Cities were turned over to Black anarchy.

            Extreme Leftists, Communists had a big hand in all of these terrible things.

          • JohnEngelman

            The Soviets were well ahead in their efforts to develop an atomic bomb. What the Roosenberg’s did shortened their development time by less than a year.

            The War in Vietnam was tragically futile. That should have been obvious to most Americans before the Watergate Scandal. If Communist Party members and Communist sympathizers had had more influence in the government, and in shaping American public opinion, the War in Vietnam could have been avoided.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            “What the Roosenberg’s did shortened their development time by less than a year.”

            So, according to you that excuses what they did, right?

            Why are you making excuses for and trying to rationalizing what the Rosenbergs did?

            According to Feklisov, Julius’ NKVD handler, Julius provided thousands of classified reports from Emerson Radio, including a complete proximity fuze, the same design that was used to shoot down Gary Powers’s U-2in 1960…under Julius Rosenberg’s direction, NKVD was provided with with thousands of documents from the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics including a complete set of design and production drawings for the Lockheed’s P-80 Shooting Star.

            The judge who imposed the death penalty had this to say about the Rosenbergs,

            In imposing the death penalty, Kaufman noted that he held them responsible not only for espionage but also for the deaths of the Korean War:

            “I consider your crime worse than murder…I believe your conduct in putting into the hands of the Russians the A-Bomb years before our best scientists predicted Russia would perfect the bomb has already caused, in my opinion, the Communist aggression in Korea, with the resultant casualties exceeding 50,000 and who knows but that millions more of innocent people may pay the price of your treason. Indeed, by your betrayal you undoubtedly have altered the course of history to the disadvantage of our country. No one can say that we do not live in a constant state of tension. We have evidence of your treachery all around us every day for the civilian defense activities throughout the nation are aimed at preparing us for an atom bomb attack.”

          • bilderbuster

            Johnathan Jay Pollard should have been executed.
            He will soon be released and after a hero’s welcome in Israel he will grow old living the good life there.
            Pollard’s life sentence along with Jewish lobbying efforts to win his release only encourage more Jewish spying especially when it comes to Israel.

          • Pollard was not some sort of Israeli patriot; he was a greedy opportunist. He also sold intelligence to South Africa, and tried selling to Pakistan and Australia. Additionally, he provided his wife classified information about China, which she used to advance her business interests. He was a thief!

            He’s eligible for parole in November 2015, by which time the traitorous idiot will be 61. I wonder if he thinks the 30 years in “fun” places like Marian USP, in Illinois was worth it. Three years in federal prison was plenty for me; there is no amount of money that would interest me in going back for another 27. I’ve had a great almost-11 years back at home, and I’ve been off probation for seven-and-a-half of those, married for almost eight, and I’m still only 48.

            In a sense, Pollard was fortunate he was nailed before the federal sentencing laws changed in 1986, because Congress completely eliminated parole for all new cases. The new law allow a probationary period (not parole), but only after one has served a minimum of 7/8 of one’s sentence. For example, Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years, so with good behavior, he can be released no earlier than November 2139. A life sentence in the feds now really does mean that inmate is going to die there.

            While he was a complete PoS, I don’t care about Pollard; the feds did him pretty thoroughly, even though it was under old law.

          • bilderbuster

            Traitors should be executed not just as punishment but to set an example.
            Regular spies can be swapped for other spies so there is always a possibility that by not executing them they may have some future value.
            Because of the United State’s “special relationship” with Israel Pollard will be released and even at age 61 he could still spend several decades as a wealthy Israeli hero no matter what we may think of him.

          • I know Pollard pleaded guilty to espionage, rather than taking the case to trial, very likely expressly to avoid treason charges.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            What Pollard did was far worse than what Robert Hanssen did and he received a sentence of life without the possibility of parole.

            Pollard has an entire government, Israel, demanding that he be released and it looks like the demand has been met.

            According to International Business Times,

            ” As part of the deal, Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard is to be freed from his 27-year detention in the US while the contentious fourth set of Palestinian prisoners are to be released.

            The American-born Pollard was sentenced to life in 1987 after admitting to passing on US military secrets to the Jewish state whilst working as civilian intelligence analyst for the US Navy.”

            Looke life life doesn’t mean life unless you’re a White Christian like Hanssen. Pollard should have been executed.

            httpCOLON//wwwDOTibtimesDOTcoDOTuk/breaking-spy-jonathan-pollard-be-released-by-us-israel-palestine-extend-peace-talks-1444291

          • Nixon was in the process of pulling out ‘honorably’ from that endless Godawful war.

          • bilderbuster

            Central and Eastern Europe were taken over by the USSR during the war with aid from America.
            Previously the Germans had kicked them out.

          • IstvanIN

            Well not, exactly. The Germans pretty much brought Czechoslovakia to an end and absorbed Austria. Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia were all independent kingdoms before the war.

          • bilderbuster

            Correct.
            Although Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia were always artificial nations and Austria practically to a man voted to join the Reich.
            Germany kicked them out of Poland, Ukraine and The Baltic States.
            But the USSR was able to survive and later take all of Central and Eastern Europe thanks to aid from Uncle Joe’s rich nephew Frankie.

          • IstvanIN

            My mother used to send “aid” packages to Hungary after the revolution.

          • Geo1metric

            The Hungarian revolution of 1956 was the start of my interest in geo-politics.

          • bilderbuster

            My friends mother escaped from Hungary as a teenager after participating in the revolution.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Yes, but present U.S. history asserts that Germany annexed Austria by force, conveniently ignoring the fact that there was a free election in Austria and yes, almost to a man, Austria voted to join the Reich.

          • bilderbuster

            I’m sure the Germans bullied and intimidated the Austrians into cheering like Beatle’s fans when Hitler was speaking or parading through the streets in Austria too.
            Either that or he used his magic nazi powers and Hypnotized all of those dim witted Austrians.

          • They could still do a lot of Damage. McCarthy was often misdirected and was almost a walking self-caricature, but post-Cold War documents show that the government was very much infiltrated by Communists. Liberal and Leftest practically made a career out of criticizing capitalism and the Red Scare, and they are still doing it.

          • David Ashton

            So-called “McCarthyism” was not “irrational”. Just read the recent research from his critics like Radosh and Klehr, as well as his supporters like Stanton Evans. The “victims” of hard questions in the USA were sympathizers and promoters of Stalinism in the USSR.

          • Well said. It was crazy. People could openly and proudly be fashionable (in intellectual and entertainment circles) Communists, but if you merely, in affect, agreed with them and said “Yes, you are,” they would scream “McCarthyism!” And such people are still continually rewriting history today, not only in the history books, but in popular culture–especially Hollywood.

          • Geo1metric

            I wonder why in Hollywood?

          • Yes, that’s a toughie. Thinking . . . thinking . . . thinking . . .

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            McCarthy received a lot of support, including from the leftoid Kennedy family. They even attended the hearings.

            He was right and the left knew it and couldn’t refute him so they had to destroy him, which they did. He also died under mysterious circumstances at a relatively young age.

            He has been vindicated.

          • And the Left is still doing drive-by shootings at his headstone.

          • Geo1metric

            I think the Kennedys were aware of the subversive nature of the Hollywood/media/academic “left”.

          • paul marchand

            Ann Coulter, in TRAITORS, very well illuminates that McCarthy was right.

          • JohnEngelman

            If that is true, explain her argument in your own words. If you cannot do that you do not understand it.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            You support and excuse murderous communists, but then your complete lack of historical knowledge is glaring. You ignore facts and data that are presented to you but don’t meet your narrow world view and carry on as if those facts and data refuting your OPINION of how things should be don’t exist.

            Then you disingenuously say that no one ever presents facts or data to you.

            Your warped OPINION of history has been shown to be incorrect on thread after thread after thread but you constantly ignore anything that challenges your one-sided, biased, pro-communist OPINIONS.

            WorldNetDaily:

            Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts — FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 — the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network.

            Although most of McCarthy’s cases involved actual spies and “security risks,” the really important issue was that of communist influence over American foreign policy, argued Evans. Harry Hopkins, Roosevelt’s closest advisor who lived in the White House, had regular contacts with Soviet intelligence. He helped bring about the disastrous Yalta and Pottsdam agreements. The Morganthau Plan, to prevent German reconstruction and starve the Germans to make them desperate enough to go communist, was the product of Laughlin Currie and Harry Dexter White at the Treasury Department. The abandonment of Chiang Kai-shek by denying military support was the product of “China Hands” led by John Stewart Service, John Patton Davies, and Lattimore. Evans described other major spy networks — in England, the Burgess Maclean group which infiltrated Washington as well as London.

            httpCOLON//wwwdotwnddotcom/2000/02/4020/#AQ3QcYQYstaqM937dot99

          • Laika

            McCarthy has been thoroughly absolved yet we still have the revisionist line that he was on a witch hunt to destroy his enemies “for no apparent reason.”

            Any history professor that wants to get hired or keep his job must toe the line and vilify McCarthy from his pulpit. Dissent not allowed.

          • Geo1metric

            Yes, the Venona files, opened after the fall of the Soviet Union, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that McCarthy was right.

            Nevertheless, as usual, the left refuses to acknowledge the truth and continues to ply their blatant lies. This, of course, comports with their motto, “by any means necessary”.

            There is no relationship whatsoever between the left and the truth.

          • Laika

            Their overriding mottos is : “Is it good for the Jews.”

            They obviously do not like their fiendish agenda of white genocide exposed and, working in group interest only, will destroy those who not only threaten them but question them.

          • JohnEngelman

            Communist espionage was a legitimate concern. Communist influence in the government, and in other areas of the United States such as Hollywood, teaching, and journalism was not. Democracies work best when the voters have access to many diverse opinions and facts.

            If Communists and Communist sympathizers had had more influence in the United States, the War in Vietnam and the Iranian Revolution of 1979 could have been avoided.

            The Soviet Union did not occupy Eastern Europe because of Communist influence in the United States. It occupied Eastern Europe because it conquered countries there in a war against the same Axis alliance the United States was fighting.

            The Communists did not win the Chinese Civil War because of Communist influence in the United States. They won the Chinese Civil War because Mao Tse Tung was a more effective political and military leader than Chiang Kai-shek, and because Chiang’s government was corrupt and unpopular among most Chinese.

          • David Ashton

            If he “cannot” do that, it means the arguments are too lengthy and indeed formidable to summarize in a reasonable AmRen space, not at all that Mr Marchand does not “understand” them. Just listen to your silly self. And now I think we might all take Geometric’s advice.

          • JohnEngelman

            I can summarize The Bell Curve in three sentences. Intelligence is the single most important factor in influencing academic and financial success and other favorable outcomes in life. It is primarily determined by genetics. Average intelligence differs significantly between the races.

            I can summarize Professor J. Philippe Rushton’s RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR in two sentences. Race is an important biological classification. The different races differ significantly in average ability levels and behavior.

            I can summarize “The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution” in one sentence. Agriculture and civilization have accelerated human evolution by increasing the human population, and by exerting population pressure in favor of intelligence, and against physical aggressiveness.

            Those who tell me to read this or that book are saying in effect, “I am incapable of refuting your argument, but the person who wrote this book can.” I have heard that message since I was a teenager.

          • David Ashton

            Your last sentence tells us more about you than you think.

            Anyone could just deny the simple summaries you have made from your self-limited stock of printed pages. I don’t in these cases because I am familiar with the data supplied in the books and find corroboration in their sources and other studies I have made.

            You can find mere “summaries” of the “themes” of most books I have recommend on the internet, Amazon &c. The precise facts and detailed documentation, which are important, are another matter where refutation is concerned.

          • Sharps Rifle

            November, 2008. Check and mate.

          • JohnEngelman

            My vote for the President helped him to win a fair election in November 2008.

          • The Verdict of History

            Communist Dictator?

            Obama?

            Nah!

            If Obama lacks the political acumen to pass an assault rifle restriction after a mass shooting, then I’m pretty sure he lacks the skill to establish an authoritarian dictatorship.

            You give our opponents too much credit.

        • MBlanc46

          Look up the Smith Act.

          • Luca

            The Smith Act of 1940 had to do with the anyone advocating or causing the violent overthrow or destruction of the American government.

            There have always been exceptions to the First Amendment” and or penalties for violations of those exceptions.

            Mr Engelman claims it was “often dangerous to criticize capitalism or advocate socialism…” during the cold war.

            Advocating socialism and advocating the violent overthrow pf the American government are not quite the same thing.

          • MBlanc46

            Communists were prosecuted for it. That said, I don’t see anything in the First Amendment that excludes advocacy of armed rebellion from protection. You might also check out the McCarran Act.

          • CircleTheWagons

            I think you guys are forgetting that all they have to push for are the prohibitions they have in Canada for hate speech. It doesn’t have to be as drastic a move as some are predicting. The protection of free speech is in the Canadian constitution as well and it didn’t stop them from enacting the hate speech regulations.

          • MBlanc46

            It’s not going to stop them here, either, unless we stop them.

          • jayvbellis

            I highly recommend Amren readers research the activism of Ezra Levant and Mark Steyn opposing Canadian hate speech/thought crimes persecutions.

          • curmudgeon

            My problem is in who decides what constitutes ‘hate speech’? Pretty subjective it seems to me and who will be the judges. Racists like Obama and Holder? Not a pleasant thought.

          • bilderbuster

            The UK is suicidal with it’s “hate speech” laws.
            Look who the original promoters of these anti White laws were/are and you will the most dangerous minority ever.

          • Geo1metric

            You’re right. It was Jefferson, IIRC, who stated that “the tree of liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots.”

          • David Ashton

            Engelman just trots out the same old sentences of yore verbatim – completely ignoring documented refutations e.g. regarding the scale and impact of Soviet espionage and subversion in the USA & UK.

      • Stogumber

        During WWII it was often dangerous to criticize the Jews, the Soviet Union or the Roosevelt Administration. E.g. two journalists lost their jobs because they had written that the killers in Katyn were Soviets, not Germans. And did you ever learn about the so-called “Great Sedition Trial” – a show trial, which was orchestrated in order to intimidate all critics of Roosevelt? The Rooseveltists were not only sympathizers of Soviet Russia – as were a lot of Jews -, they also adopted a lot of practical measures from there. Even decent liberals like Seymour Lipset were embarassed afterwards and thought that these wartime measures had to be reversed.

        • Luca

          FDR had enough Jewish advisers and appointees to start his own synagogue. Research: FDR’s Jewish Cabal.

        • bilderbuster

          One of the first things the Soviet Union did was make antisemitism punishable by death.
          I can’t imagine why.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            While tearing down Russian Orthodox churches:

            Metapedia: Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich✡☭ (Russ. Ла́зарь Моисе́евич Кагано́вич;November 22, 1893 – July 25, 1991) was a Jewish communist and one of the greatest mass-murderers in recorded history. As Stalin’s chief henchman, he ordered the deaths of millions of Europeans and the wholesale destruction of Christian monuments and churches, including the great Cathedral of Christ the Savior. Standing amid the rubble of the cathedral, Kaganovich proclaimed, “Mother Russia is cast down. We have ripped away her skirts.”

          • Geo1metric

            One reason I admire Putin is his rehabilitation of the Russian Church. Not that I am a traditional Christian, but I do have a great deal of respect for White tradition, culture, etc.

      • clemensb

        Well, I grew up in the USA in the 60’s. Definitely Cold War. I spent plenty of time in school drills ducking and covering under my little desk.

        I remember going to the LA County Fair in Pomona, CA every fall. my father always spent lots of time arguing with the people in the American Communist Party booth. If you can get a booth at the largest county fair in the nation in the height of the Cold War, I doubt it was dangerous to criticize Capitalism, unless you consider danger to be getting saliva on you from rabid patriots.

        I believe we ALL respected the first amendment more back then. My father would come away saying that he could argue with them but he couldn’t make them go away…”It’s a free country.” And he was one of the people who fought to make it that way. He understood the limits that the Constitution put on Authority in order to protect our freedom. Wish we had more like him today.

      • paul marchand

        Had the hated McCarthy and others been adhered to, there would have been no nuclear race. We wouldn’t have sweated the USSR, and now Pakistan, North Korea, Iran, and the next nuts with the nukes.

  • JohnEngelman

    The problem with hate speech laws is that they can be used to suppress the publication of scientific evidence of innate racial differences.

    • David Ashton

      Such suppression already occurs at a sporadic micro-level, especially in “educational” circles, the effect of isolating people from information along with peer-pressure fashion and indoctrination in “anti-racism” having an impact comparable to cult “brainwashing”.

      • MBlanc46

        Few academics without tenure dare to challenge the orthodoxy.

        • Geo1metric

          “Few”? Any academic who aspires to tenure dare not challenge the orthodoxy.

          In the media, those who wish to remain employed dare not challenge the orthodoxy. And the beat goes on.

      • curmudgeon

        Is it Orwell’s “1984” that introduced us to the Ministry of Truth and the ‘Thought police’?Seems we are close to living those days.

        • David Ashton

          This is part of the refutation of Engelman’s contention that the USA is such a free country that mind manipulation is ineffective, if not impossible or non-existent. Look at the “education” of future citizens in schools and colleges, and mainstream media. The pied pipers have been at work for half a century.

          • QuinnTheEskimo9

            Tell Donald Sterling that it is a free country, that what you say in the privacy of your own home, recorded without your knowledge, can’t be used against you in order to destroy you.

          • curmudgeon

            I may be off base, but I suspect there is a real correlation to the downward slide of our once great country and the creation of the Department of Education and the permitting of the old professional teachers organizations into labor unions run by Marxist thugs.

      • Laika

        It occurs in almost every workplace in America. White Americans are forced to walk on eggshells lest they offend a non-White and get Donald Sterling-ed, even if their voices are recorded in private conversations without their knowledge. Meanwhile blacks openly call for the killing of Whites everywhere and everyone applauds

        We Whites are being forced to live under a reign of terror and forced to silence ourselves lest we have our lives destroyed for all times. What is being forced on us is diabolical, there is no other word for it.

      • JohnEngelman

        Violating the restrictions of political correctness will not result in a jail sentence. Unfortunately, it can be a career ending move.

        It does not matter if one says something that is obviously true. The more true the statement, the more serious is the offense, and the more severe is the punishment.

    • curmudgeon

      You and David Ashton both seem quite well spoken and very intelligent. Nice to see civil discourse. Thanks to both of you for some real educational information.

      • JohnEngelman

        Thank you.

        David Ashton gives me a real challenge here.

    • David Ashton

      Do you have any children or grandchildren in school or college? What do you know of the repressive speech codes already and slanted curricula operative in “education”, &c.

  • Truthseeker

    This won’t stop Blacks from playing Knockout King. They don’t need the internet for that.

    • Laika

      They use the white-created technology and devices they like so much like “sail fonz” to conduct important business: assaulting, robbing, murdering raping and torturing whites. They’re getting away with it too as police departments and media cover up their crimes.

      Our white lives are worthless to the government, media, police and schools.

  • Mrfinoni

    Westerners are in a lot more danger from imported radicals and terrorists that disgruntled working class Whites. It is simply a fear tactic.

  • guest

    Apparently the liberals believe that Americans aren’t being indoctrinated enough with far-Left beliefs. So in order to further suppress any politically incorrect truths that they find offensive and hate to hear, the freedoms we enjoyed (free thought, speech, freedom of association, etc.) must come to an end, all in the guise of “preventing hate crimes”. The only freedom that liberals fight for is their own and for non-whites.

    • Ella

      We still pose a large enough threats to the globalists and UN community with our guns and free speech.

  • My opinion let the haters speak, It shows there ignorance, they in the end look very foolish, at least in the eyes, of educated people. Perhaps that is the issue. the lack of intelligence (education) as a whole.
    as long as they don’t push bounties and death threats, i don’t mind hearing the hate speeches. It shows there Character, and sooner or later, they lose credibility. Much like AL Sharpton.

    • QuinnTheEskimo9

      Hate speech against whites is coming clearly, frequently and freely from the highest levels of power in the United States – without consequence:

      Universities: Noel Ignatiev (among MANY), Harvard professor — “Keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females, too, until the social construct known as the white race is destroyed. Not deconstructed, but destroyed.”

      Government: Mary Frances Berry, when head of U.S. Commission on Civil Rights — “Civil rights laws were not passed to protect the rights of white men and do not apply to them.”

      Holder: … in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee this spring asserted that hate crimes designation does not protect Christian ministers, whites, heterosexuals, policemen and members of U.S. military. Only favored groups, he said, such as homosexuals, blacks, Latinos, Jews, Muslims, and women will benefit under this new law.

      Media, by not reporting frequent, vicious black atrocities against whites and pumping out anti-white “rap” music that encourages black violence against whites.

      httpCOLON//wwwdotamrendotcom/archives/reports/rap-lyrics/

      They are gaining strength and are meant to set us up as targets to violence-prone blacks and other non-whites.

    • Laika

      The nefarious anti-white narrative must be attacked at and hammered away at every level whenever and wherever possible (attacking such nowadays can mean career ruination). What other race or ethnic group would allow their people to be debased, humiliated and silent while “others” not their own openly called for their killing and genocide? If it is not wrong for Jews, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Muslims, etc. to object when their people are attacked, then this same applies to the White race as well.

      Look at the Sterling case. He uttered something banal in the privacy of his home, was illegally recorded and the media treat what he SAID as if it were 9/11 and the Kennedy assassination all rolled into one. What he SAID, according to the left was far worse than the thousands of Whites who have been victims of black violence.

      • I do agree, but being things are the way they are, people such as J-Z should also be banded from the media, or he should be ostrasized as this man.

  • The goal is to shut down all criticism of minorities by whites. Race realism will be considered a hate crime if the Democrats have their way with this bill. Meanwhile, Louis Farrahkan, Reverend Wright and Al Sharpton will be allowed to keep on with their anti-white message.

    • Geo1metric

      Exactly.

      And who decides what “hate speech” is?

      • The same “elite” people who are apparently the only ones qualified to decide what a “microaggression” is. In other words: not us.

      • Georgia Boy

        How about we start with rap music? It’s full of songs threatening murder of black men, referring to them freely by racial epithets. (It’s a lot closer to hate speech than most of what white liberal hipsters are writing on dormitory walls at colleges.)

        • Luca

          Rap music is verbal pornography, violence and filth. It should not be allowed to be heard in public over the airwaves. But obviously it makes money for record producers who don’t care about morals or culture or the damage it does to society. Tell me again…who controls the record industry?

          • Zaporizhian Sich

            Those who cannot be named are the ones who control the record industry, the movie industry and the so-called porn industry.

          • Katherine McChesney

            I worked in the Music Business in Nashville and Los Angeles and I can tell you for a fact it is controlled by Hebrews from personal managers, business managers, attorneys and officers of the recording companies. Many of them have no morals at all. For instance David Geffen. If anyone gets in his way he destroys them.

      • Zaporizhian Sich

        Apparently, any and everyone who wants to see us all killed off, literally.

    • David Ashton

      What is John “Nordic Episcopalian” Engelman doing to help stop this, except “always voting Democrat”?

      • JohnEngelman

        I am not a white nationalist. I am not any kind of a nationalist. My loyalty is extended to decent people of all races and nations. I have known many.

        I am a race realist. While race realism has political implications, it is a scientific theory, rather than a movement.

  • c684570

    What hate crimes? I mean…what hate crimes that weren’t proven hoaxes?

    • Laika

      The ones committed against White every minute of every day in the former USA.

  • Medizin

    Attempted to give everyone an example of a website espousing hate crimes against Whites…seriously hateful statements, but it was deleted. Although, I thought it important Whites know the extent of hatred towards us, evidently the moderator didn’t. It’s the worst website I have seen.

    • Kenner

      Hmmm…does it use the word ‘karma’? There’s one that celebrates murders of whites by blacks.

      • Medizin

        No.

      • Zaporizhian Sich

        The non-whites who have been openly or covertly encouraging, or celebrating the murder of whites are indeed going to come face to face with karma. Karma does not forgive or forget, and it’s colder than a witch’s heart. Their actions are going to result in large numbers of them being ruthlessly slain at our hands, sooner or later.

  • Bartek

    This (proposed law and the legal opposition to) from the same clan that uses public funds to promote the concept of White Privilege in public schools and universities.
    What gall.

  • IstvanIN

    Markey’s bill would direct a government agency to identify hate speech and create recommendations. How about calling this agency the State Protection Authority? Or would the gentleman from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts prefer Cheka.

    • Mrfinoni

      but it would have to be staffed by minorities…. only they can stop the haters!

      • Geo1metric

        That’s probably not far off at all.

      • QuinnTheEskimo9

        Just like the white genocide refugee industry is staffed by…”naturalized” refugees who want to import hordes of their own ethnic kin.

    • Probably the NKVD.

  • TXCriollo

    I just had to resign from my job because of diversity, i guess to markey me posting a statement on facebook about how im sick of it is a hate crime

    • LIBERTYSINCURSION

      Why did you have to resign from your job due to America’s suicidal obsession with the nation killing goal of diversification? How exactly did that come about? Did they all of a sudden one day just say “hey, there’s to many White people here, and you sir gots to go, so we can fill your spot with Shaniquae Harris”? And let me guess. I bet they thought that pushing you out for no other reason than the color of your skin. In order to fill your spot with someone else for no other reason than the color of their skin. Was in no way racist or discriminatory against you what so ever?

      • TXCriollo

        Its a long story, it was discriminatory. It was not racial but gender, white hispanic male vs white female i lost. I did my job, I was paid on commission so i told her 2 days a week ill come in meet with you get admin work done( I have been in the business a year before she got their) i cant be paying for gas and not get paid to be here. Long story short i made sales money and new agents asked me how to do things not her(my dad has been an agent in the same company since 1989 successful so i took his advice and passed it along) This got to her my way worked hers did not. Friday i get a call from the head of the agency, i meet with him her and the office suck up. He gave me my praise then said you need to do what she says i stand by her, and it seems like you dont so were gonna need to work something out, if you dont your gonna be asked to resign, and i repeat if you dont say you will do her way before you leave you will be fired. I told him im done, you have two college boys, he said yes I said i hope diversity effects them too. I told him why. I hope every liberal white has a kin be affected like i was

  • Apparently this maniac is unaware that incitement to violence is already illegal. This, by the way is what an idiot looks like.

    • Laika

      For God’s sake! I haven’t had breakfast yet. But that photo reminded me that the trash needs to be taken out.

  • mr. markley . . . . . only thing you got to know is the
    world is a dangerous place.. you can muzzle all you want . .
    but that won’t make it safer for you ..

    • I suspect stifling discussion about important issues the way this Malarkey chap appears to want is likely to actually produce armed violence. We are not serfs.

      • Geo1metric

        “We are not serfs.” But that’s exactly what “they” want us to be.

        Or donkeys.

        • QuinnTheEskimo9

          They want us to be clueless, brainwashed unarmed sheep, easily led to slaughter, believing that the most noble thing a white person can do is remove himself and his entire race from the face of the earth.

        • Laika

          I think after they’ve stripped our property and wealth from us by debasing the currency and inflationary methods, we’ll be killed off just like the kulaks in the old Russian empire. The Soviets had no use for them either as cannon fodder or food producers – they didn’t care if the entire country starved to death because they hated the Russian and Ukrainian people.

          We White Americans will be looked at the same way; useless to TPTB. That’s why they’re bringing in an uneducated, low IQ population base because they’re easy to control or eliminate when the time comes. They’ll also fight amongst themselves which keeps them occupied, they’re not smart enough to challenge their orders.

          • Geo1metric

            Those are dire predictions you make. Food for thought. If you really believe these things, you should be preparing for it. Are you?

        • Dale McNamee

          Or sheep…

  • 4teepee

    The Left thinks its ability to control the media has been undermined by the Internet.

    • QuinnTheEskimo9

      The left’s ability to control the media has been undermined by the Internet.
      And good thing,that. We can finally get at the truth instead of the anti-white agenda that’s been shoved down our throat by for 50 years.

      Any exposure of or challenges to the left-driven white genocide agenda makes the left apoplectic; the sheep may become wolves, and it’s about GD time. Those who promote white genocide need to be outted and dealt with in the harshest of terms for calling for the extermination of the white race.

    • Do you remember in the early 1990s, when the same cultural Marxists were freaking out about talk radio? Some things never change.

  • curmudgeon

    What is it about the state of Massachusetts and electing so many mush headed liberal politicians? They should check the water up there.

    • Geo1metric

      Well, for one thing, it’s the home of Haaaaavad. Everyone wants to emulate those geniuses at Haaaaavad, you know.

    • IstvanIN

      A majority White state with a two-term black governor. They are nuts.

      • curmudgeon

        Obvious to all except the residents. You must have to be batsh*t crazy to live there voluntarily.

  • paul marchand

    Surely the founders of the US were full of “hate speech” in the 1770s.
    At least a little hatred of the present US federal government is indicative of sanity.

  • I think the key thing to watch out for in the future is the charge of ‘incitement.’ The Tolerance Police know it is very difficult and could easily backfire to ban certain words outright. But, as in the case of Paul Weston in the UK, our ‘soft totalitarian’ overlords will continue to pass legislation and make rules saying that if you publicly state, such as on the Internet, something that is ‘hateful’ / un-PC, you can be charged with either inciting your fellow ‘haters’ to take criminal actions or intentionally inciting innocent downtrodden groups to demonstrate in the streets so that your fellow haters can gleefully attack them.

    In this way the Multicultural Marxists have simply redefined un-PC speech as being outside the purview of free speech. I recall a news video awhile back showing some protesters along a road holding up signs, “Diversity Is A Code Word For White Genocide!” After the clip was shown, the news anchor quickly decided that this was definitely not a matter of “legitimate free speech,” but of “hate speech.” So a lot of this is already in place. I guess open-borders-birthrate demographic genocide is merely, what, lovingly blotting out the stain of White people from this Earth?

    • David Ashton

      Exactly. Even publishing statistics on ethnic crime or WW2 death-rates could be “shouting Fire! in a crowded theater” if the powers-that-be so desire. “Judicial activism” (no pun intended). Racists used to be those who hated anyone not white, now it’s anyone non-whites hate.

      • Well said. Soon the standard prosecutor’s legal phrase will be, “What this criminal did was as bad as shouting ‘White!’ in a crowded theater.”

        Pandemonium would ensue. (Attacks by black flash mobs.)

  • Greg Thomas

    Sometimes, hate is necessary…

  • John R

    Beware people. Just wait until this country fills up with more people from the Third World who have absolutely no respect for our democratic traditions. I am sure Obama and his cronies would love to control the Internet. They would love having information in this country controlled by the state and the sympathetic media conglomerates.

    • Rhialto

      The Third World immigrants have even less respect for Liberal traditions or Liberals. They cooperate with the Liberals only to advance their colonization of America.

      America’s situation could become very interesting, and offer opportunities to normal White men with courage and intelligence.

  • Rhialto

    Free speech is never popular with those in power. It’s not a matter of ideology. The traditional value types suppressed porn and Communist publications. In China, the leaders keep debate on as short a leash as possible. I think that we all know what the Eurocrats are doing to destroy anti-Liberal communication in Europe.

    The internet makes the threat of free expression much more threatening to the establishment.

  • David Ashton

    Yes, I graduated in 1963 from Pembroke College.

    Self-absorbed, then.

  • Geo1metric

    Check out Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, JFPO.

    • brior

      How many Jews are for immigration control in the U.S.?

      • Geo1metric

        At last count, three.

      • Nancy Thomas

        Crickets…….

      • Anna Tree

        How many atheists are for immigration control? How many Jehovah’s witnesses? Democrats? University professors? Vermont people? etc etc…

    • bilderbuster

      Why?
      Their name alone indicates that they’re only concerned about Jewish ownership of firearms.

  • fgbrunner3

    Do they want to ban hate crimes such as the knockout game or do they just want to ban criticism of Mr. Obama?

  • Geo1metric

    “Hate is not a crime unless the hate is demonstrated via violence against the hated person or group.”

    Otherwise it is simply an emotion.

  • Alexandra1973

    Shut down MySpace, the Internet ghetto. That’d be a start. LOL

    (Typed with tongue planted firmly in cheek.)

    • Geo1metric

      Did it hurt?

  • Alec Smarts

    Be careful mentioning that it is yet another jewish organization behind this nonsense.

    • TXCriollo

      Ya they seem to be behind all of these little hat crime deals

  • Geo1metric

    And so another of my favorite writers:

    “In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
    George Orwell

  • mr. markley . . . . . only thing you got to know is the
    world is a dangerous place.. you can try and subvert
    the constitution all you want but that won’t make it any safer ..

  • Nancy Thomas

    And the most ferocious open borders freaks are Jewish as well. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Jewish groups push for open borders here, while defending Israel for white Jews only policy.

  • LHathaway

    so, whites are 2 1/2 times more likely to be victims of (officially recognized) hate crime than a certain other ethnic goup in America (and, as mentioned, you probably have to kill a white person before anything done to whites by others is considered a thate crime) and yet, by very much by the tone of the article, everyone is only concerned with preventing whites from hating, and no one else.

  • What happened in Knoxville? I never heard of it. Also Wikipaedia defines the “polar bear hunting” as attacks by groups of teens against isolated strangers — of any ethnicity. Are polar bears Irish or Italian or French? No they’re just polar bears, no nationality or race is apparently is involved.

  • wretchedwhiterabbit

    Somebody should stop politicians from encouraging each other…

  • WR_the_realist

    If I believed this law could actually be implemented in an objective fashion it would result in the $PLC’s web site being banned, but we all know that won’t happen. I am confident that no act of violence could be plausibly linked to any article or editorial appearing on Amren’s web site. By contrast, we know that Floyd Lee Corkins, who carried out a gun attack against the Family Research Council, was inspired by a hit piece he read on the $PLC’s web site.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    We can no longer downvote comments but we can still flag them. Be sure to flag comments you find offensive to send a message to the systems admin, which they’ll most likely ignore.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    Again you are trying to justify and rationalize what the Rosenberg’s did, which was pass U.S. military secrets to the Soviets in violation of American law. It was espionage which is punishable by death.

    Did you read my post about them or was it deleted like most of my other posts clearly showing where you are wrong.

    I’ll repost it again, but you’ll ignore it and continue your crusade to exonerate known American atomic spies, no matter what the law is or says:

    “According to Feklisov, Julius’ NKVD handler, Julius provided thousands of classified reports from Emerson Radio, including a complete proximity fuze, the same design that was used to shoot down Gary Powers’s U-2in 1960…under Julius Rosenberg’s direction, NKVD was provided with with thousands of documents from the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics including a complete set of design and production drawings for the Lockheed’s P-80 Shooting Star.

    The judge who imposed the death penalty had this to say about the Rosenbergs,

    In imposing the death penalty, Kaufman noted that he held them responsible not only for espionage but also for the deaths of the Korean War:

    “I consider your crime worse than murder…I believe your conduct in putting into the hands of the Russians the A-Bomb years before our best scientists predicted Russia would perfect the bomb has already caused, in my opinion, the Communist aggression in Korea, with the resultant casualties exceeding 50,000 and who knows but that millions more of innocent people may pay the price of your treason. Indeed, by your betrayal you undoubtedly have altered the course of history to the disadvantage of our country. No one can say that we do not live in a constant state of tension. We have evidence of your treachery all around us every day for the civilian defense activities throughout the nation are aimed at preparing us for an atom bomb attack.”