NYPD Stats: 70% of Shooting Suspects in First Half of 2013 Were Black

Thomas Tracy, NY Daily News, November 19, 2013

If you’re black, you are almost 25 times more likely to be shot in New York City than a white person—and you are also more likely to be arrested for pulling a trigger, alarming new NYPD statistics show.

Data collected during the first six months of the year reveal 74% of the city’s 567 shooting victims were black. An additional 21.5% were Hispanic. Less than 3% of shooting victims were white, according to the report.

Blacks also accounted for the majority—about 70%—of the 222 people arrested for shooting someone during the first half of 2013, according to the NYPD’s Crime and Enforcement Activity report.

Black community activists said the frustrating statistics, which have barely fluctuated since 2009, tell the stark stories of economics in poorer neighborhoods and the NYPD’s laser-like focus on communities of color.

“It’s all a battle between the haves and the have-nots,” said Tony Herbert, president of the National Action Network’s Brooklyn East Chapter. “In the end, it’s survival of the fittest, and there are some who want to bring weapons into the mix. That’s what it comes down to.”

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly has used similar statistics to defend stop-and-frisk, claiming cops stop more people in minority communities not because of their racial makeup, but because more crimes happen there.


The six-month report also shows blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be the victims of murder, rape, robbery, and assault—and to be arrested for committing those violent felonies—than whites.

Blacks compose 25.5% of the city’s residents, according to the 2010 census. Non-Hispanic whites make up 33.3%, while Hispanics and Latinos make up 28.6% and Asians 12.7%.


Blacks also account for more than 55% of those who cops stopped and frisked, the report said. Hispanics constituted 29% of those stopped and frisked. {snip}


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  • Alexandra1973

    I am shocked that they actually listed White and Hispanic separately across the board.

    Those numbers actually line up with what we’re learning here…Blacks are the most violent, followed by Hispanics, then Whites, then Asians.

    (And no, Mr. Engelman, it doesn’t mean we need more Chinese here. LOL Unless you’re talking about take-out, in which case I want sweet-and-sour chicken.)

    • JohnEngelman

      Because of the economic situation I am in favor of restricting all legal immigration, even of the groups I like, such as Asians and Jews.

      I do not think there is any reason to ever admit blacks and/or Muslims, even if the unemployment rate is 0.1 percent.

      • Alexandra1973

        I was just ribbing you. 🙂

        I’m all for a moratorium on ANY immigration until things stabilize. Then I’m for accepting whites.

        • Sick of it

          We need deportation much more than immigration at this point.

      • Jefferson

        Speaking of Muslim immigration, I have a racially aware British friend who told me that in Londonstan there are more mosques now than there are Christian churches.

        • JohnEngelman

          That is terribly depressing.

        • bilderbuster

          John used to be the #1 name for newborn boys in Londonistan but a few years ago it was replaced by Mohamed.

        • Garrett Brown

          Whites are now a minority in London as well correct? That isn’t really surprising. Imagine what it will look like in 20 years…

          • Laika

            Only 20% of births in London are white.

        • Alexandra1973

          On Google Earth I can see where Muslims have set up shop all around Detroit. All the mosques.

        • Katherine McChesney

          I’ve found evidence that some of those Christian churches have been modified to be used as mosques.

          Britain is no longer a White Christian nation. It’s the home of more psychics, astrologers and pagan religion than any country in the world.

    • Get sweet & sour sauce at Wal Mart. The “La Choy” brand version is pretty good. I can’t find bulk General Tso’s sauce anywhere here, however, and it is a little too sweet anyway, so what I’m trying to do is reverse-engineer a more authentic Sechuan version; spicier and not as sweet. Egg roll and wonton wraps can be found in the refrigerated produce section.

      The big “Bird’s Eye” brand bags of mixed frozen vegetables are perfect for stir-fry, and I frequently cook the rice here in home-made chicken broth. We eat a lot of chicken, and I save the bones in a gallon jar in the freezer. Whenever the jar gets full, I pour the bones into the slow-cooker and boil them for 4 or 5 days. I run the resulting broth through coffee filters to get the fat and little fragments out. When the boiled bones are dry, they crumble to the touch, so I break them up for vegetable garden compost.

      The same broth goes into the split pea & lentil soup I make a lot.

      We don’t need Chinese folks to cook for us.

      • Katherine McChesney

        Wish I could sample some of your recipes. Actually, my favorite is Thai…the Massamun is the best. Thai Phoo Ket in Nashville is not a chain. It’s a Mom and Pop restaurant. The best Thai food around.

        • My favorite Thai dish is Pad Phed Talay. I made it for my wife and daughter yesterday for dinner. I became addicted to the dish at the “Thai Orchid” restaurant on South Academy boulevard here in Colorado Springs. This was another Mom & Pop operation. I use the packaged, mixed frozen seafood medley from Kroger. Wal Mart here doesn’t carry this anymore.

          Cooking good things is one of the ways in which civilized people take delight in our own lives and those of our families and friends. Blacks express themselves in this fashion – according to this study – by shooting people, and in other “recent” news, with unprovoked beatings of innocent strangers.

    • ms_anthro

      That’s not chicken.

      • ShermanTMcCoy


  • Puggg

    Don’t worry, it’ll be much better in 2014. When nutcake becomes mayor, he’ll disarm the NYPD.

    • Alexandra1973

      If and when blacks genocide themselves, it’ll somehow be YT’s fault, you watch.

    • Spartacus

      Found this on the internet :

      • Puggg

        All three of of mine and also every other one I’ve ever owned were tan. No color diversity of Puggg’s pug brigade.

      • Garrett Brown


    • Laika

      The new mayor will do what Detroit did: lay off 1/3 of the police force.

  • shmo123

    This story only corroborates what is already known: Blacks and Hispanics are responsible for 95% of ALL VIOLENT crime in NYC, not just shootings.

    • Jefferson

      On Law & Order Special Victims Unit, it is White people who commit 95 percent of all violent crimes in New York City.

      That is one of the most unrealistic shows I have ever seen. Any television show that puts a White face on 21st century crime in New York City, should be labeled as a science fiction show.

      White people have not comitted violent crimes in mass numbers in New York City since the prohibition era and the great depression. When you had Jewish, Italian, and Irish gangs terrorizing the Big Apple.

      Today it is Dominicans, African Americans, and Puerto Rican gangs that terrorize the Big Apple.

      • Alexandra1973

        And meanwhile on Star Trek TNG you have a black chief engineer.

        Sci-fi indeed. Maybe they figure out a way to tame blacks and improve their intelligence in the future, who knows?

        • Non Humans

          Slightly possible. I had a friend who dropped a chevy 350 into a Ford Pinto. Anythings possible.

          • My wife’s 1931 Model A Ford has the Wankel rotary engine and transmission out of my old Mazda RX-7 in it.

          • ShermanTMcCoy

            Seriously? WE WANT PICTURES!!!!!

        • Brian

          They do mention the Eugenics Wars of the 1990’s…which produced Khan and his soldiers. Presumably they have genetic engineering.

      • Garrett Brown

        That show is an absolute joke.

        • And one like it, NCIS: LA, is about to do a show about right wing extremist that fly the Gadsden Flag who hijacked a predator drone with hopes of wiping Pakistan off the map.

          The bad side is….?

          Remember, we were taught here in the Era of Hopeychange to despise Pockeystahn for their deep state hiding OBL for years.

          • Garrett Brown

            Who would watch a show about people raping/killing each other? I think you have to be truly sick to enjoy something like that. The overall tone and atmosphere of those crime shows are extremely depressing.

      • Xerxes22

        They once did a show based on the Bernie Madoff case. They changed the conman to a WASP.

        • saxonsun

          Of course–all villains are WASPS according to the pc headcases.

          • ThomasER916

            That’s because it’s a Jewish trope.

        • Amusing, because even the original Mr. Ponzi – who invented the Ponzi Scam in the first place – was a Roman Catholic Italian and not a WASP.

        • DiversityIsDeath

          Hollywood did the same thing with the Hitchcock directed film “Rope” which was based on the true crime Leopold and Loeb case. In this movie the two homicidal perps were portrayed, of course, as Ivy League Wasps dripping in “white privilege”. (Screenplay written by Arthur Laurents and Ben Hecht.)

      • MarcB1969

        It’s usually on the TV when I visit my mother during the day and we always have a laugh at how Gotham is rocked by a non-stop bloodbath from the hands of upper class White professionals. Their writers have admitted to purposely fudging reality to fit the narrative they are seeking to project.

      • Africans are not and never will be Americans, so the term “African American” is utter nonsense. One can be a “Celtic American”, a “German-American”, an “Italian American”, an “American Indian”, and so-on, but there is no such thing as an “African-American”. They’re not even really completely people, let-alone Americans.

        We have a pet fox; he could just as well be a “Vulpine American”.

  • JohnEngelman

    Right now I am reading “The New Jim Crow,” by Michelle Alexander. According to Michelle Alexander too many black criminals are in prison. I think too many black criminals are out of prison. I want them to be put into prison. I want them kept there for a long time. I want them to be treated harshly.

    • Oil Can Harry

      The New Jim Crow? I didn’t know you were a fan of modern fiction.

      • DiversityIsDeath

        Yeah, scary, the “The New Jim Crow”. Pah, nowadays we have what’s disparagingly referred to as “Jim Snow”.

    • A lot of those black criminal idiots end up basically doing what we used to call “life on the installment plan”. They don’t want to go straight, aren’t smart enough to go straight and thus never do, so they do something else once they’re out and then go right back to the hoosgow. They have no impulse control; it’s “I gots ta be haben dat” 24/7 with them.

      One of my (white) friends from the feds did go back. He got six years in state prison and served 18 months. He’s at a halfway house now at age 53, according to the CDoC website. It was drug use again. He was never a dealer; he just never got over his mother dying of cancer, and he’s not violent.

      Unless you bring up real psychos like Eric Raeder or Ted Bundy, the face of white crime tends to look a bit different than that of blacks. Would you care to guess why? Crime, like everything else is a cultural phenomenon, and culture is a racial phenomenon. A “one-size-fits all” approach to punishment thus isn’t very useful.

      • JohnEngelman

        I favor complete legalization of marijuana. I do not believe possession of a hard drug for personal consumption should be punished with incarceration.

        • The problem with hard drugs is the other things the users tend to do. For the users, I’m in favor of court-ordered psychiatric treatment, because there is usually something else wrong with their lives and they are “self-medicating”.

        • Anna Tree

          And what if they are driving while personally consuming? Not enough killed by alcohol that you want more killed by marijuana?

          • JohnEngelman

            Marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol, even while driving. Marijuana does not cause people to become violent. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever died from an overdose of marijuana. I am unaware of any evidence that marijuana causes brain damage or cancer.

          • Joseph

            Shouldn’t matter even if pot kills people, provided they are not killing anyone else with it. I expect reciprocal liberties. I should be able to eat slim-jims and Cheetos for breakfast, ride a motorcycle without a helmet and drive without a seatbelt. I don’t care if people sky-dive sans chute if they are not falling onto the person or property of others.

            Republican busybodies worry about dope, Democrat busybodies worry about food and both get excited about helmets and seatbelts.

          • THC tends to interfere long-term with tasks that simultaneously involve both brain hemispheres. That’s the only long-term adverse health effect I have ever heard about with reefer.

          • Anna Tree

            The problems are bigger among young people:

            “The long-term health risks include lower attention levels later in life, cancer, and weakened executive function. Smokers can’t process newly learned information and store it for later use. Several studies indicate the loss of “executive functions” such as learning lists and doing homework, and that this continues when the individual is no longer high. One recent study found that young stroke patients (ages 18-55) were more likely to be current pot smokers than people of the same age, race, and sex who did not have a stroke.[8] […]”

            See more in my other post.

          • The people who will drive after smoking reefer already do. Legalizing Mary Jane would change nothing in this respect.

  • bigone4u

    While the exact percentages will vary from city to city, the basic story is always the same: Blacks with guns use them illegally. Blacks are too violent in their natures to be allowed anywhere near a gun, a knife, a hammer, a screwdriver, or even a hatpin. Traditional punishment doesn’t work with them. Bring back the slaver’s whip? Put them in stocks? Waterboard them? Putting them in prison for life? Something has to be done because what we’ve been doing just doesn’t work.

    • Alexandra1973


      • bigone4u

        I forgot sterilization. They would disappear in a generation.

        • QuinnTheEskimo9

          This is why abortion must be kept legal and free for blacks and browns. I’ve read where 30 million blacks have been aborted since abortion became legal. Abortion clinics should be on every block in black communities next to the fried fish places , liquor stores and check cashing places

          • If 30 million blacks have been aborted since abortion was legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade, that means we’re short 15 million black men younger than age 40. If these 15 million are evenly distributed by age, that’s 7.5 million black guys between the ages of 15 and 35 – their prime violent crime-committing ages – who just aren’t here to hurt our children, wives, sisters, parents or us.

            If a “pro-lifer” can tell me of an easier way to get rid of 7.5 million violent black criminals, I would love to hear about it.

          • ShermanTMcCoy

            Along with free tubal ligation.

          • Joseph

            They should be PAID for sterilization. I like Shockley’s program; money well spent provided that we STOP importing more defectives.

          • Don’t forget non-reversible vasectomies.

  • APaige

    Blacks are 1/4 of the population, 1/2 of the persons ‘stopped and frisked’, 3/4 of the shooting suspects and victims. To liberals blacks are over-represented in ‘stop and frisk’ based on population, but to those that are rational, blacks are under-represented in stop and frisk based on crime numbers. If stop and frisk is lowering the number of blacks being shot, then I agree with the liberals that the policy must be ended.

    • Alexandra1973

      Liberals whine and complain about loss of freedom (and rightly so, I might add), but they don’t stop to think–if their pet blacks weren’t here, we wouldn’t have so much crime, and no “need” for things like this.

      • Non Humans

        Their whining about loss of freedoms is a direct result of their own libtarded policies and ideologies. If they would cease spewing the ignorant crap that they do and embrace reality, we could address the crime problems seen universally in all nonhuman areas. From welfare to violent crime, a separate set of laws, regulations, and punishments designed and tailored to address their genetic shortcomings.
        In the end, everyone would be happier and better off.
        My first suggestion, issue hunting licenses for the gangsters and thugs….I would go career.

      • No liberal has ever worried about my right to firearms ownership, either when I still had that right or after I lost it.

    • Magician

      Blacks used to be just 10% roughly 10 years ago and they doubled in a decade.

  • Spartacus

    “In the end, it’s survival of the fittest, and there are some who want
    to bring weapons into the mix. That’s what it comes down to.”


    Yeah, I’m sure that’s what it is…

    • I can’t imagine wanting to fight without some sort of weapon. I am by instinct, evolution, culture and training a tool-user.

  • bilderbuster

    Blacks shooting Blacks is as old as the hills.
    When I first started studying to go into real estate an old timer told me to buy a small strip mall in the ghetto.
    He said if I put in a gun & pawn shop, a liquor store, & a funeral home there I’d make a fortune LOL!

    • Laika

      Check cashing joints too, especially if it’s the “no questions asked” type.

    • Magician

      And in the next building

      Drug rehab facility
      Abortion clinic
      AIDS treatment clinic

      • Non Humans

        Any med services in nonhuman areas usually incur losses as a result of nonpayment. Electives (Grills, Reconstructive, etc) that require payment up front (Usually Street Pharmacist Profits) dont fare badly, but still have to put up with the nonhumans and their tnb.

  • ZeitTrash

    Southern California doesn’t have nearly as many blacks as many other parts of the country but it’s fascinating how so much violent crime and murder in the area is committed by blacks, often against older whites. These are just a few of the latest:

    “2 suspects arrested for shooting death of retired Hemet man”

    “San Bernardino fatal home-invasion robbery: Man arrested”

  • Luca

    In other words, blacks and hispanics are a criminal blight on society but we must not say so. We must blame economics, guns and the “haves” vs. the “have-nots.”

    Nah… I think I’ll stick with statistics and put the blame where it belongs with the Blacks and Hispanics.

  • Surely there must be some kind of mistake, for most of the liberals I have met here in Britain generally seem to believe the “gun problem” in America is down to those hillbilly or macho ‘rednecks’ who go “yeee-haaaa!” waving their firearms around whilst ‘banging on’ about the constitution…….

    …You mean to say they are wrong, and the “gun problem” is more aptly describable as a “black problem”?…… wow. (lol).

    • Katherine McChesney

      I sometimes link to articles on the Daily Mail. The comments are interesting. Britains defend their blacks and react strongly against the truth about the violent nature of American blacks. They seem to believe that truthful remarks should be censored from the comment section. It IS interesting, however, that an article about the obamas a few days ago garnered many comments about how they are single-handedly destroying America. I was surprised that those remarks were not censored. I’ve also found a lot of anti-American sentiment. Seems that ‘Yanks’ is a curse word to them.

      • The Daily Mail is a very controlled newspaper, which is also schizophrenic in their coverage and output.

        They can have two articles about Obama right next to each other and one comment section can be filled with gushing comments about the wife’s dress and their ‘cute’ children – whilst the other is filled with scorn over his actions and policies.

        The same with immigration. They can pump out a lot of stuff that gets everybody wound up to the hilt about what is going on……then, when somebody says something or reacts to it in public against some ‘ethnic minorities’ – then they are in the same paper being vilified as “racists” and going on “hate filled rants”.

        They have campaigns for censoring the internet of pornography and for closing down sites that are deemed to promote anorexia – then in the same newspaper they are running stories on celebrities with their bits and bobs out on show, raunchy videos being covered for the “controversy” – and articles about how good young women are looking on the red-carpet or the beach after being on this diet or that diet.

        As for comments, they like to control the messages in them I think. I have tapped out many a short and succinct reply to articles that get to the crux of a matter – and they do not get printed, no matter how carefully put. Yet others seem to get through with the same old cliché points, the same “populist” mantras, and sometimes even crude caricatures.

        I can only suspect that they want to keep thought channelled into a particular corridor.

  • Erasmus

    Did Oprah put down her baked ham long enough to comment?

  • lessthantolerant

    feral animals continue on their path, maybe whites will wake up.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    I read news reports of overseas crimes where the perps are described as “British.” Yet when I look further, turns out they’re blacks from Africa or Asians from Pakistans.

    • Jefferson

      I don’t consider Pakistanis to be Asians, I consider them to be Sand [email protected]@ers.

      When I think of Asians, I think of Bruce Lee for example. Not Osama Bin Laden.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    Every single one should be offered refugee status in England, the U.S., Australia, or other white lands. Instead, Boers and White South Africans, White Zimbabweans and other White Africans have a difficult time immigrating into white lands while millions of high-fertility blacks from the toilets of Africa are welcomed, their journey to the U.S. fully paid for and given ALL government benefits possible, for life.
    That’s because the U.S. and English governments have been hijacked by white enemies whose main goal is the elimination of the white race.

  • QuinnTheEskimo9

    You’re kidding right? We face more danger from human conflict than from anything else, especially as resources become scarce, you know like water and food. All wars are about human conflict.

    Wait until the EBT cards are cut off and see who comes looking for what YOU have.
    Hint: It won’t be extraterrestrials.

    • Bunky

      Government will not ever cut food stamps or other welfare benefits.
      Oh they may slow the rate of growth but cut?
      A loaf of bread may be a trillion dollars but you’ll have an ebt card worth a quadrillion.

  • On an individual basis, they are less prone to spontaneous violence. A typical Japanese guy won’t run a yellow light. If you put thousands of them all together in uniforms and give them all rifles and shin gunto, they’ll behave rather differently, so Chinese still don’t like them very much. Asian violence is nearly always collective and – as you have admitted in your own post – politically driven.

  • Katherine McChesney

    In Los Angeles, the East Asian gangs are considered to be the most organized and the most violent of all gangs.

    • Jefferson

      If Asian gangs are the most violent in Los Angeles, why are prisons in the Los Angeles metropolitan area not predominantly Asian ?

      Do Asian gang members on average have a higher I.Q and thus less likely to get caught and arrested by law enforcement than Mestizo gang members and Black members ?

      Why does the racial demographics of prisons in the Los Angeles metropolitan area not resemble an East Asian country ?

      Prisons there still look like a mix of Mexico and Africa.

      • Perhaps while the actual gang members are organized and ruthless, only a very small proportion of the general Asian population is actually involved in that sort of lifestyle.

        I can’t prove that, but statistically it fits.

  • OhWow

    25% of the city. About 12% are male. That means, about 5-7% are young black males. So essentially 5-7% of NYC commits almost 75% of all gun crimes. LOOK AT THAT NUMBER! How can liberals possibly see 5%—–>75% and not see a RIDICULOUS problem?!

    • It would seem that since guns are not the problem, NYC’s gun-control is not the solution. What they really need is more “yoof”-control, and this is precisely at the time when the new mayor-elect is promising to abolish the NYPD’s “stop-question-frisk” policy.

  • I believe they feel they will be safe in gated neighborhoods.

  • ShermanTMcCoy

    Sound like good stats to me.

  • Fo Sho My Main Man! (lol).

    The “liberal-left” here often love to hate Americans in general (as being “dumb” and “fat” and “using all the resources” etc), and the media here does not help because they tend to hide the truth about the statistics on guns.

    They will have 24 hour coverage of some shooting done by a white guy, but when a black guy is behind it, it is just a few little slots (if anything at all) where if you blinked you would miss it.

    The general impression therefore is that it is white people are out shooting everybody like it is still some kind of Tv Western, only in the suburban sprawl, where if your neighbour is not mowing the lawn to the sufficient standard of upkeep expected, he will shortly be in a body bag – lol.

    I was once at a little party with friends (and friends of friends) and they were condemning the “stupidity” of Americans for not understanding that “more guns means more deaths” and going on about how they ought to hand them all in because there was a “huge gun problem” (by these so called ‘nutjobs’ who defend the constitution).

    I said that White Americans need more guns, not less. I said that the more responsible people who have them to defend their families and property, the better off they will be – especially in the future – and that it is not the people with legal firearms that are usually the problem.

    I said that America does not have a gun problem, as guns do not kill people, people kill people – and in that, it has a black problem, not a gun problem.

    Well, the atmosphere was then like I had just slit the throat of their first-born child. LOL.

    Of course, they just dismissed what I was saying in some kind of “disbelief” that anybody could be so damned racist and “pro guns” on top of that.

    I suppose I was also smirked at for being so “dumb” and so “backwards” – but I am sure in reality I would have the last laugh if they were to take a stroll down a MLK boulevard on their own.

    • Puggg

      Ask your friends and their friends that like to snicker why the cops in London spend almost all their time dealing with blacks when it comes to “gun crime” so called.

  • DiversityIsDeath

    Blacks currently comprise a lousy 13% of the total USA population, and look what a problem they are! Imagine when the black portion of pop increases to %15, 18%, 20%…

  • Truth Teller

    There is a huge mosque in lovely San Luis Obispo California

  • Funruffian

    “Black community activists said the frustrating statistics, which have barely fluctuated since 2009, tell the stark stories of economics in poorer neighborhoods and the NYPD’s laser-like focus on communities of color.”
    I knew this was coming: blame it on poverty and disenfranchisement. Sure, that’s the way they excuse and condone all the lawlessness and violence. That way they can bilk more tax money from Whitey.
    Let’s see here, Detroit has soaked up millions of dollars every year for the past 40 years just to get their SH&^ together, and still they destroy everything in their reach from lives, property, education and peace. After all this, idiot liberals still think we are dumb enough to believe that criminality is caused by poverty.

    • Anna Tree

      Detroit gets a lot of money: statewide, Detroit’s spending per pupil is in the 91st percentile and DPS teachers are paid at the 96th percentile. (FreeRepublic, NCPA websites etc) Nevertheless, as per the U.S. Dept. of Education, 7% of Detroit 8th graders are proficient in reading, only 4% scored highly enough to be rated “proficient” or better in math.

      From William Allingham:
      To use poverty as a justification for failure is nonsense. Many of the geniuses of Europe were poor and some even looked forward for poverty like the monks in the monasteries etc. European, POOR monks invented and discovered many things we still use today despite of opposition and adversity but it seems that for black people or mexicans, the slightest impediment is enough to stop their deeply hidden genius (perhaps they will start blaming obesity). The fact remains that Africans and South Americans never invented the wheel nor an alphabet. Africans never invented even one calendar.

      The tough circumstances of the ancient world (constant disease, wars, lack of proper science) didn’t stop a bit Europeans from creating proto-democracies (like the viking Icelanders) or sophisticated Empires in Rome (only succeeded in complexity in modern times).

      While the aztec emperor couldn’t decide which was the proper size for the great pyramid (lacking understanding of perspective; they had to re-size it at least 40 times) the Romans, centuries before had already built the Pantheon whose dome could only be succeeded in modern times and the foundations of science were already settled in Europe (I don t think its necessary to enter into details about aztec “science” which had more to do with superstitious stories. at least in Europe, religion was a bit more subordinated to rational thinking).

      By the way, no matter how poor, white laborers will always perform better than poor foreigners, their poverty can be fixed but a person’s character and dna, no…

      Africa was the bread basket of the world until Africans kicked the white
      man off the fields .. the blacks did not learn/could not learn/or would not learn to plow the land an use it… now Africans starve.

  • Anna Tree

    Originally from a francophone country in Europe 🙂

    Re. marijuana, I was talking about impaired driving. Like with alcohol, sure it is the extreme/not responsible users that are the culprits, but it doesn’t matter really when a bystander is killed…
    “Reaction time for motor skills, such as driving, is reduced by 41% after smoking 1 joint and is reduced 63% after smoking 2 joints. Data has shown that people high on marijuana show the same lack of coordination on standard “drunk driver” tests as do people who have had too much to drink.”

    My second and last I think objection to cannabis is youth use: “There are growing concerns about the short-term dangers of marijuana use among youth, as well as the long-term health risks, such as cancer.[1] The short-term dangers include but are not limited to memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, and increased heart rate. As teens get older, other short-term dangers may arise from marijuana use. It has a very negative effect on driving[…][4] And infants born to mothers who smoke marijuana during pregnancy are shorter, weigh less, and have smaller heads.

    The long-term health risks include lower attention levels later in
    life, cancer, and weakened executive function. Smokers can’t process newly learned information and store it for later use. Several studies indicate the loss of “executive functions” such as learning lists and doing homework, and that this continues when the individual is no longer high. One recent study found that young stroke patients (ages 18-55) were more likely to be current pot smokers than people of the same age, race, and sex who did not have a stroke.[8] […]

    For years, marijuana has been called a “gateway drug” or a stepping stone to even more harmful and addictive substances. A study of 2,765 pairs of twins examined this progression from “softer” drugs to harder, while controlling for all the factors that twins have in common, such as genes, personality traits, home environment and (for the most part) access to drugs.[1] They found that men and women who used marijuana or hashish before age 17 were more than twice as likely as others to ever become dependent on alcohol or to abuse any illegal drugs. Specifically, they were twice as likely to ever use marijuana/hashish, more than twice as likely to abuse sedatives, four times as likely to abuse stimulants or cocaine, and almost four times as likely to abuse heroin or other opiates. This was true whether the twins were identical or not.”

    “it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than
    some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be “yes.””

    I also believe that the government should have limited business in our lives, but at the same time: how much individual freedom vs. health of a society is the question… In my opinion “radical personal freedom” doesn’t trump every other issue, that be gay adoption or religious dogmas or one full generation deciding to bring children only at age 35+ or dangerous people on the loose or here cannabis use. As long as it is illegal, less people will do it, better for society, that said penalties should be adjusted to the degree of harm, as you hint.

    (sorry getting tired, will reread myself tomorrow)