H-1B Visa Program Is Not Attracting the Best and Brightest Workers, New EPI Paper Finds

Economic Policy Institute, February 28, 2013

H-1B guest worker visas are not a useful way to drive U.S. innovation, a new EPI paper finds. In Are foreign students the ‘best and brightest’? Data and implications for immigration policy, Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at the University of California, Davis, discusses the H-1B program, which allows employers to temporarily hire foreign STEM workers.

H-1B visas are often described as a way to attract the “best and brightest” to American shores, but many employers use the H-1B program as a source of cheap, compliant labor.

Contrary to the claims of industry lobbyists, H-1B workers are no more distinguished than their U.S. peers. Instead, employers prefer to hire foreign workers over similarly qualified U.S. workers, because legal loopholes in how the “prevailing wage” is calculated let them save on labor costs. The H-1B visa also ties workers to their employer, effectively rendering them captive for the duration of their visa. The H-1B program does not encourage U.S. employers to hire outstanding talent or the best and brightest workers.

For example, Matloff finds that by several measures, foreign students in computer science now working in the U.S. are on average less talented than Americans. Compared to Americans of the same age and education level, the foreign students filed fewer patent applications, attended less-selective U.S. universities and were less likely to work in research and development positions.

“Ironically, the biggest victims of the industry obsession with H-1B visas are the technology companies themselves,” said Matloff. “Their ‘penny wise, pound foolish’ policy means they are often not hiring the best talent.”

Proponents of H-1B visas argue that tech firms are unable to find qualified U.S. applicants for STEM positions, but stagnant wages in these fields refute claims of a labor shortage. Indeed, flat wages are discouraging talented U.S. workers with STEM degrees from pursuing graduate study or even careers in the field—causing an internal “brain drain.” Since the foreign workers displacing U.S. workers are not more talented, this internal brain drain endangers the country’s ability to retain its worldwide lead in technological innovation.

Current reform proposals to grant special visas and green cards to all foreign STEM graduate students at U.S. schools would exacerbate this internal brain drain. Instead, the federal government must ensure that programs like the H-1B visa are truly attracting the best and brightest or remedying genuine labor shortages. Reform must change the way prevailing wages are calculated so that H-1B visa holders are paid a genuine market wage for their education and skill sets. At the same time, policymakers could expand the EB-1 and O-1 visa programs (for workers of “extraordinary ability”) as a means of more reliably attracting the best and brightest workers without crowding out U.S. graduates.

Topics: , ,

Share This

We welcome comments that add information or perspective, and we encourage polite debate. If you log in with a social media account, your comment should appear immediately. If you prefer to remain anonymous, you may comment as a guest, using a name and an e-mail address of convenience. Your comment will be moderated.
  • Paleoconn

    There are already way too many STEM graduates who are unemployed, so there is no need to import others. The proof that there supply far exceeds demand is the dwindling wages over the years.

  • Wow, What a shock! H-1b’s aren’t the “best and the brightest’. The O-1 visa is used for them and there’s no limit to these visas.

    No, H-1b’s are mediocre, but they’re young and cheap slave labor, just what big business wants. Screw the older American STEM workers.

    • BonusGift

      Exactly; “I am shocked!” Shocked I say.

    • To add weight to the “not the best and the brightest” claim see these links…
      ‘India’s tech workers are not as good as the country hopes and America fears’ (Jan 2010)

      Quote…….”According to the company, only 4.2% of India’s engineers are fit to work in a software product firm, and just 17.8% are employable by an IT services company,”

      ‘India Graduates Millions, but Too Few Are Fit to Hire’ (WSJ Apr 2011)

      Quotes………”With India’s population size, it should be so much easier to find employees,” says S. Nagarajan, founder of the company. “Instead, we’re scouring every nook and cranny.”
      ……..”If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys,” says Vijay Thadani, chief executive of New Delhi-based NIIT Ltd. India,

      I also read online recently that Indian IT firms are having to outsource their own outsourcing contracts to the Philippines to get the able bodied no.s they need.
      So when you thought that the person who introduced themselves as Bill from Oklahoma was really Adheesh from Delhi, his company instead hired Amado from Manilla to do the job.

      I also read that a lot off China’s clothing manufacturing work is moving off-off shore to places like Indonesia and Bangladesh, because although the Chinese workers are fast and they have the infrastructures in place, the workers are getting uppity in terms of their rights, so they’re beginning to price themselves out of the exploitation market.
      Globalization means you get to sell your goods in the world’s richest market after you had the world’s cheapest workers make it, everyone else in the middle is screwed.

      • And damned near every standard traditional platter spinning desktop computer hard drive is manufactured in a factory in the deltas of the rivers that run through Thailand. So if those rivers flood and the deltas are flooded and those factories are flooded out, like they were through much of late 2011 and early 2012, up shoots the price of HDDs.

        • The world is getting smaller.

        • dukem1

          That is so true. In the small city I live in, I went to the local computer shop last year about getting an external hard drive. The guy said that due to the flooding in Thailand, all his stock had been recalled. apparently, so it could be re-shipped, with a higher price tag. I get supply and demand and all that, but was rather shocked to find out that all this stuff came from some SE Asian flood plain.
          “When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.” ..
          Sounds like the mantra for the new world economic order. .. God help us all.

      • crystalevans

        Also, because of the one child policy in China, there are not going to be very many young factory workers in the future. Jobs in these factories even now are not being filled, a young person looking for a factory job has many choices. The factories have to offer more money and less work hours to attract them.

        • Maybe if the rest of the worlds workers became ‘as expensive’ as us, at least our manufacturing and IT work may come back to our countries.
          The subject of global workers rights shows that that 1% (the real elites) don’t really want equality on a global scale, as without the exploitation factor, it hurts their bottom lines.
          Yet we in the West get the illusion of equality rammed down our throats as a means of shutting us up and making us feel guilty for having certain lifestyle expectations.
          Global egalitarianism is only a good deal when you’re on the side of the equation that has less, while we in the West have more than most others (which should be a point of pride not shame).
          For us to achieve global parity (not that I care), we either have to expect less ourselves or to elevate everyone else, whose rapid population expansion makes that nearly impossible.
          This ‘one world’ business is only good for the elite.

          • By the time (if ever) that global wage differentials disappear there will be no recognizable American nation for the jobs to return to as by then the historic white American population will have become just another of our many competing ethnic and racial groups. America will have ceased to exist with our history, traditions and culture irrelevant to the non-white masses who are invading our biological space with the willing collusion of “our” government, schools and corporations.

        • SmithandSmith

          I’ve always admired their “One Child Policy” but did you know how they abort the babies of those who go over their one child limit (can have more than one if they pay for it via heavy tax), and this speaks highly of Chinese Character:

          They stick a needle in the girl’s tummy to kill the baby (poison) and if the baby should come out alive, there’s a bucket of water next to the bed they throw the baby in to finish killing it and this is done right in front of the Mother. Nice huh?

          I heard this on the radio (can’t remember which news station) so I trust this to be true.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIyenQ-njlQ

            News story on Chinese late term abortion.

          • SmithandSmith

            I would have preferred you tell me I was wrong about what I heard on the radio about China’s Abortion Practices.

            I would prefer China have a billion people consisting of parents with several kids a piece than for them to have that many people with no siblings so China can own them as Tim just informed me.

          • I didn’t think you were wrong with what you heard on the radio (a lot of my anecdotal references come from similar places), as the only detail that was different was the bucket part and the lady in the news story still had to carry a dead fetus at 8 months after having poison injected into her belly (pretty horrific to my reckoning).
            In the news story that I lazily linked (trying to bite my tongue as realize that I’m getting a bit too ‘talky’ on this thread) was set in a big city, China is a big place and what they get up in rural areas would not surprise me.
            I agree that Tim’s reply is a lot more eloquent and the only thing I’d add to his comment regarding the sociological disaster that they’ve engineered is that as well as having no uncles, aunties and nephews etc. is they also have a surplus of males running at about 35 million also known as ’empty branches’, (as they’ll never bear fruit).

            There are aspects of the Chinese mentality that I too admire, but like everything with the three major racial groups, their way is not my way.
            You probably only admire their Machiavellian thinking (which has a insectoid mathematical feel to me) because we in the West have wandered so far away from our own ways in trying to placate all the blacks and browns we have.

          • SmithandSmith

            No Sir, I liked their ‘One Child Policy’ because I don’t like to see people go without and when you have too many people, resources inevitably become scarce.

            I know my writing never sounds like I care about non-whites but I do. I don’t like non-whites here in America and Europe because they’re destroying our Countries and us via flooding us out (immigration) and breeding with our people and they’re taking over our own Land. And I don’t like Americans and Europeans being forced to pay for it neither.

          • I am the same, I care until it starts to impact on us.

          • SmithandSmith

            Yeah, I’m okay with everyone as long as they stay in their own Countries.

          • rebelcelt

            Our abortions are not painfree to the baby. Being torn apart alive in the womb is at least as bad. Murder is murder and abortion is murder.

          • SmithandSmith

            I don’t know anything about abortion procedures save for what I heard about the chinese on the radio.

            As for abortion, I’m torn on it. I support it because all I see is White People being forced to pay taxes to support a bunch of non-white welfare children who are raised to hate and destroy us. On the other hand, I don’t support it because I don’t feel it’s my place to kill someone who hasn’t directly threatened my life.

          • rebelcelt

            I had your exact same conflict. But, murder is murder. I do not cry over the black and brown babies being aborted though i wish i did. I see them growing up to destroy my children. But, if i had to be the deciding vote i would vote against abortion. There is a God and he
            judges men for their actions. I have plenty to be forgiven for but, I hope not innocent children of any race.

          • SmithandSmith

            I don’t cry for them neither. And yeah, I have enough Sin to pay for as it is so I don’t need to be adding to it.

            Ma’am, I’m not trying to kill people no matter who they are (child/adult), I just want us to be able to have our own Countries like they have theirs. I don’t see any non-white country that is flooded with White People like you see ours flooded with them.

          • Tim

            The One Child policy was never about population control. It was about destroying the last historic entity that supercedes the authority of the State. I`m talking about the nuclear family. One billion people with no brothers and sisters, Aunts or Uncles or cousins. In two generations they bred out the genetic Bonanza response. No one coming to your aid, because now the State is your family!! Sickening…

          • SmithandSmith

            Oh, I didn’t know that. I did think it was about Population Control. Given this new piece of information, and Thank-You by the way, I now have an even greater disdain for them than I did before.

      • I heard one person say about this, “this will all equal out one day when all wages equal out around the world.” I answered, That’s rather of like saying we are all equal, IN THE GRAVE.

      • pcmustgo

        EAST INDIAN IMMIGRANTS- AND AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS, FOR THAT MATTER, ARE THE TOP 1% OF INDIA (or Africa). They’re so bright, hard working, intelligent, etc, right? Most of India is not like that. These are the elites that come over here.

        • IstvanIN

          They’re the elite?

        • Cherry Bomb

          Why are you shouting?

        • Every second taxi driver in Melbourne has a Masters in Engineering.

      • KingKenton

        “If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys,” says Vijay Thadani, chief executive of New Delhi-based NIIT Ltd. India,

        Whoops! Obviously Mr. Thadani has not been put through the U.S. corprorate diversity gulag.

        • Being referred to as a monkey must only be offensive to people who sincerely do feel that they have a resemblance to Simians.

        • Michael_C_Scott

          While I quite thoroughly dislike them, I will make an exception in Mr. Thadani’s cause, thanks to his honesty.

    • RisingReich

      Uh – it’s been screwing ALL Americans in the STEM fields for at least 20 years now – depressing wages across the board.

      • And also, accountants, and a lot of other finance-related fields. Slowly, they’re starting to show up in the actuarial science industry.

        • RisingReich

          Not good at all to hear that.
          They MAY be good at producing numbers, but I’d venture a bet they are TERRIBLE at interpreting them.

  • Norm Matloff frequently writes for V-Dare. This news appeared in Slashdot (of all places) a few days ago.

  • Luca

    The only advantage of the H-B1 visa is that a company gets an IT worker from a third world country with a Masters Degree willing to work for $8 hr instead of an American with a Masters Degree looking for work at $25 per hr. It is only briefly mentioned in the article but that is the real objective.

    Aside from the brain drain one must question the quality of the foreign education when compared to our schools. generally, no comparison when speaking of India, Africa, Pakistan or the Caribbean. China, Korea and Japan are a different story but their workers want wages closer to their American counterparts.

    These companies don’t realize the blow-back that comes from hiring foreign educated workers who can’t communicate properly. There are schools in India that teach these folks who to be understood and how to to speak American English rather than the pidgin /British-English they speak over there. It helps a little but not enough.

    There are also culture issues when it comes to manners, and customer service. Above all else there is the issue of patriotism. Some of these companies need to be told that we won’t be doing business with them if they keep hiring foreign workers. A certain computer manufacturer comes to mind and I will not buy one of their computers again because whenever there was an issue and I called the help line, I felt like I needed an interpreter.

    They can go sell their computers in India for all I care.

    • RisingReich

      I bet it was HP. I work in industry and can tell you it’s maddening to call an American company and get some id10t who repeats his script 10 times hoping you say the magic word ‘resolved’ without any actual input on their behalf.

      • Luca

        Bingo. And they have the damn gall to answer the phone and tell you their name is Jeremy or Betty when it’s really Themarajavendahisnu.

        • Puggg

          Don’t say that. Otherwise, in 16 or so years, we’ll see a Themarajavendahisnu in the local crime blotter, and he won’t be Indian from India either. He’ll be sharing a cell with that middle aged lifer inmate/murderer Shitavious.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            I used to watch “To Catch A Predator” while visiting my mother, and quite number of the perps looking online for young girls and then caught trying to meet them for sex were subcontinentals. Shitavious and his homies just go to the mall once the middle school students are out for the day; they don’t bother with this online stuff.

          • I always thought there was something fishy and “not quite right” about this “To Catch a Predator” series.

            When you look at the men that walk into these traps, they don’t look like the “stereotypical” pedophile, i.e. white trash, mid-40s, unshaven, driving around a 20-year old or older beaten up pickup truck, habitual drunkard, filthy domicile, etc. (“Hoosier,” in St. Louis parlance), the ones that walk into the Dateline NBC trap look like the suburban guy next door.

            When you add to that the fact that they believe that they believe they are going to that house for a (presumably sexual) rendezvous with a teenage girl that is a sexual adult but a legal minor, we’re talking 14- or 15-year olds, and never does Hansen put on to be a girl younger than that or ridiculously young, then I get the feeling that, considering Dateline NBC has done TCAP many times, that it is gradually chipping away at the sense of moral reprehension that the average viewer has about statutory rape and the sexual solicitation of legal minors.

            An unintended consequence of TCAP being done and broadcasted over and over and over is that people are going to lose their outrage over this kind of act, to where politicians who want to lower the age of consent won’t face the kind of resistance they would have in the past.

            This leads to a more diabolical theory: Despite Chris Hansen’s blovation, perhaps, way behind the scenes at NBC, this is the intended consequence. We know that some elements of the pink lobby have been trying to lower the age of consent for a long time. Perhaps some homosexual and pro-homosexual executives at NBC News know the deal, and are trying to engineer in a Machiavellian sense this political fallout I am worried about.

            Another issue is this: These men who fall into the TCAP trap have to know that they could be walking into a trap. So why do they keep biting? Maybe they know they’re walking into a trap, and they actually want to walk into a trap, as a back door form of protest against strictly enforced hard and fast statutory rape laws.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            I saw plenty of them try hooking up with what they thought was an 11 year-old girl. While I personally don’t think a 15 year-old has the emotional maturity for a relationship of this sort, 11 is just wrong by any estimation. Aren’t 11 year-old girls supposed to like horses?

            My mother turned to me and said, “Well, we haven’t seen 10 yet.” She also asked the same question you just did: “Why do they do this?”

            I tried to explain that anyone rational would know that there are no young girls who want to hook up with middle-aged men, just the same way there is never going to be any stolen Nigerian “oil money” for regular folks. I settled for saying that some men have only enough blood in their system to operate either their brain or a certain other part, but never both at the same time. Perhaps these guys are emotionally immature as well, and/or their wives turned out to more than they can handle.

            TCAP isn’t running anymore, but rest assured city police departments all over are still doing this. As far as the “pink lobby” goes, most of these perverts were hetero and wanted young girls.

            Give me a certain Japanese woman in her early 30s with a college degree, a career and her act together any day.

        • RisingReich

          Lol somehow I knew it was them.

          Yeah it’s more maddening that they would think we actually believe ‘Jeremy’ is a native English speaker. I for one, have started dishing out a fair amount of abuse to these types. Make ’em earn that $8/hr lol.

          It doesn’t accomplish much other than making me feel a bit better afterwards.

    • GeneticsareDestiny

      “The only advantage of the H-B1 visa is that a company gets an IT worker
      from a third world country with a Masters Degree willing to work for $8
      hr instead of an American with a Masters Degree looking for work at $25
      per hr.”

      This. Not to mention that an Indian “master’s degree” is probably more along the lines of an American high school diploma or associate’s degree, if that.

  • SmithandSmith

    I read this last night and then of course, couldn’t get to sleep.

    For all you asian lovers out there, I told ya so. I told you the asians are NOT better than us. They never have been and they never will be.

    • JoePatriot12345

      Slightly higher average IQ does not mean they have more geniuses, and it certainly doesn’t mean they are more creative.

      Do a google image search for Chinese art. While nice, it is essentially two dimensional cookie cutter cartoons that all look alike.

      Then do a google image search for European art…

      • SmithandSmith

        I don’t believe the ‘higher iq’ mantra no more than I go for the ‘we need asians’ lies.

        It just seems to me that if asians really did have a higher IQ, it would have been them who came up with everything good but as the facts show, anything worth having in this World came from White People.

        As for the Art, I love Art so I can give asians some credit there. I don’t care for most asian art but some of it is nice. European Art on the other hand, speaking only for myself here, is Always Beautiful.

      • Veritas_lux_mea

        Agreed. I saw this the other day:


        They truly have no shame.

        • Tired of asian trolls

          And it’s not just the “Arc of Triomphe”, but also the Eiffel Tower…Oh yeah, asians are so “superior” !


          • BonusGift

            BTW, the so called ‘Great Wall’ is obviously modeled after European castle/fortress type design (i.e., the stone castle/watchtower part that is well know and photographed; and was constructed mostly during the Ming period). What is funny is that it was built around the time that Europeans stopped building that way because technology and tactics had effectively obsoleted that type of structure. Ironically, gun powder effectively nullified that type of construction (i.e., cannons). That is, they copied something they should have known wouldn’t work (i.e., at least Europeans knew that at the time) and yet it is a symbol of being “great”. For my money, I’d just call it what it is, a huge stupid make work project that was a failure before one stone was put in place (i.e., to be fair, with the possible exception of the earlier dirt and gravel bits that are now gone and replaced by the “great” European based design version).

          • TD8

            For you, every non-white creation is a waste or a copy of something European, which is factually not the case. That wall has protected a civilization for ages. There will always be few similarities in design here and there, take for e.g. houses constructed in Asia and Europe. They all have few similarities because the purpose remains the same (i.e. to protect yourself from unsuitable weather and other dangers).

          • BonusGift

            No, facts are facts. Your houses dodge is just a red herring, I am not talking about houses. Show that I am wrong, don’t just declare that someone is wrong. The timeline is what it is, and the facts are what they are. What they built was a copy of something and militarily useless when it was built. Finally, try to face reality and facts as they are, not just declare things as you want them to be.

          • TD8

            So let’s see, according to “facts” you produced, there’s no evidence of anything that existed like the Great Wall in Europe even though there are few similarities in the construction techniques but not designs. It’s like saying, that the Chinese traveled thousands of miles, just to replicate something that didn’t even exist in Europe. It’s also saying, that the Chinese didn’t have forts or watchtowers during the Ming period. Militarily useless? Yeah, that’s why it still stands to this day while almost all other historic construction in Europe have crumbled. I’m sorry, whose method is obsolete again? I’m no architect or historian, but you only need common sense to understand which civilization was advanced in their time. How more realistic should I be, when majority of experts in this field have examined the facts and already proved it scientifically, that this was one of a kind architecture and advanced for that age?

          • BonusGift

            Yes, as you state you clearly are “no architect or historian”. Earth to fool, it’s purpose was to stop invasion (Mongul invasion specifically), it failed. One more time, it’s purpose wasn’t to become a tourist landmark, it’s purpose was to stop invasion, which it couldn’t even do at the time of its construction. It is analogous to building an city for people then declaring that since it’s empty that’s what you meant to do; oh wait, never mind. Also, where did you come up with the “almost all other historic construction in Europe have crumbled” statement? Are you insane? You really need to put down the hash pipe or whatever you’re taking and think it through.

          • TD8

            Gosh, I wasn’t arguing at its purpose i.e. to protect from foreign invaders. Sure the Mongolian army breached the wall during the initial construction. I only disagreed with your supposed “facts” that it’s a copy of European architecture, which is not the case. About the crumbling part, I said “almost all” and not total. I failed to mention that I was comparing the constructions of that era. Some withstood damages but the rest of the others are included in the world heritage sites, so that modern renovation techniques can be used to maintain it from falling down. It’s not necessary to be a professional in this field to understand the journals and books published about ancient civilizations. You just have to cross-check various materials to verify the information.

          • Trooper

            That was a project to replicate Paris for local tourists to get a European styled architecture, just like Las Vegas have those pyramids and stuffs. Get it right.

      • Michael_C_Scott

        We call this “forced perspective” in the West.

      • Felix_M

        Do a google image search for Chinese art. While nice, it is essentially two dimensional cookie cutter cartoons that all look alike.

        Even Chinese music at its very best can’t compare with western symphonic music. In its unique way it is pretty, but it doesn’t have even near the complexity of a Mozart, Beethoven or Bach.

    • jay11

      For me, I’ve always said the same too. Asians have a problem with perception, cognition and imagination. I have known this all my life after being around and working with and being friends with asians since I was a teenager. Most are nice people, but terrible drivers and unable to step back mentally and see a bigger picture.

      • SmithandSmith

        My only asian dealings came when I lived in Des Moines. Dogs disappeared left and right (i was told this by my friends who are from there) and then there’s all my Vietnam Veteran Friends who did not appreciate barely surviving while those asians, who did not risk sacrificing their life for America, were handed jobs, new houses, clothes and cars.

        Des Moines was, probably still is, a HUGE “refugee” Town. The last Third World Dump on Des Moines were the bosnians and man oh man, were they ever rude. I haven’t lived in Des Moines for thirteen years now but I’m betting nothing’s changed save for having even more Third World Aliens than they ever did before.

        • LetGo

          Maybe if your country didn’t intervene in Vietnam’s national business, your people wouldn’t have had to deal with those refugees. Even look at what your countries are doing in the Middle-East, and then you whine about taking in Muslim refugees from these nations. Do you see any pattern here at all?

          • SmithandSmith

            You’re not from America, this is plain to see. Let me help ya out: The United States Government has NEVER listened to, let alone Honored ANY wishes of The American People. You need to know and understand, The United States Government does what it wants and it cares none at all, not one little whit, what “We, The People” want.

            Americans never cared about Vietnam or the vietnamese or anything it and they were going through and the same applies to the Middle East and the mudlims.

      • ConcernedYoungAmerican

        Thank you! I want to scream this at the Asian-lovers. Having gone to college in San Francisco, I witnessed firsthand the, yes, intelligence of Asians, but also the conformity, lack of innovation, and fatalistic attitude towards the greater world. And then there’s the poor hygiene and the deficit of peripheral vision…

    • JohnEngelman

      Asians have faced fierce discrimination in America, but this has not stopped them from working hard and getting ahead. In fact, they have been so successful in “racist” America that whites have even begun to complain about Asian achievement.

      – Jared Taylor from “Paved With Good Intentions.”


      • SmithandSmith

        There’s never been any discrimination against asians in this Country.

        Oh yeah, asians are “successful” because “We” are FORCED to pay taxes so they can have all their tons of UNEARNED Asian Privileges.

        Come back and talk to me when all the set-asides for asians disappear and they’re made to make their way WITHOUT the help of White Tax Monies. This includes not being allowed to have any asian groups neither since “We” are not allowed to have our groups without being “racist” for it unlike those “hard-working” asians are.

  • So CAL Snowman

    There’s a reason “Silicon Valley” is located in the United States and not India nor China. If the Chinese and Indians are so damn brilliant, THEY would have started the computer revolution not US. Besides if the liberals are so concerned about the third world and non whites, wouldn’t they want the non white countries to keep their many STEM graduates for themselves so that their countries could improve?

    • JoePatriot12345

      China has 500% more people than America. India is about the same.

      Where are their inventions? Where are the industries they created? When was the last time you bought software or a gadget invented by an Indian or Chinese company?

      They should have 5 times as many products and inventions if they are just our equal!

      Yet liberals just can’t figure it out.

      • crystalevans

        The Chinese invented gunpowder.

        • So CAL Snowman

          that is debatable

        • Eric Shun

          and egg foo yung

        • RisingReich

          Yippie. One invention out of a million.

        • ms_anthro

          And what did they do with it besides make fireworks? White people invented the means to make gunpowder useful.

        • Yes they did and I think highly of the Chinese but, this is not China?! Would the Chinese tolerate millions of whites coming into their country and making them into a minority in their cities? This is only being done in white countries.

        • NM156

          …and some nice looking ladies, right Crystal? : )

        • Tired of asian trolls

          Yep, and snake, dog and cat meat too…enjoy !


          • BonusGift

            You missed the part about eating human fetuses. Let’s give credit where credit is due.

          • newscomments70

            Don’t knock it until you try it!

        • Michael_C_Scott

          And they didn’t know what to do with it.

        • Triarius

          Kinda. The gunpowder they invented was too weak to fire any bullets. It was mainly used as smoke bombs and made loud ‘booms’ to demoralize enemies. Gunpowder strong enough to fire bullets or mortars was a white invention. But it was based off of the Chinese building blocks.

        • Yes but with all the guns made by the chinese tell me of one purely of chinese design.

      • jay11

        When they redesigned Photoshop a few years back, they did not use one single white or western software engineer. Look at the credits that pop up when you open the program. Not a single white-sounding name of any kind. I wondered if that had anything to do with the fact that the redesigned Photoshop sucks big time. The interface is just a mess and the dark black shades all over the place are horrendous.

      • The big CSIT invention claim to fame out of either India or their diaspora is that one of them invented the USB (Universal Serial Bus) connectivity interface. Of course, the USB wasn’t so “universal” at first because proper drivers were only available for Win-Doze OSes.
        And also, it’s not as if USB was the most profound of inventions.

      • Intrepid

        For most of its history, China lacked the wealth and political stability to carry out on going research. Things have only changed recently for the last generation or two. It doesn’t have anything to do with a lack of creativity. All countries including China conduct espionage, but the Chinese use the results of it to accelerate their pace of modernization. A 1st world China would likely be similar to Japan and Taiwan in terms of productivity. I say give them time. They’re said to be the single greatest untapped source of human potential on Earth, and it’s true.

    • Intrepid

      Have you ever been to Silicon Valley? Don’t underestimate the number of Asians currently employed in tech and other U.S. industries.

      • Michael_C_Scott

        Quantity is a poor substitute for quality.

        • Northerner

          Why are you assuming they’re bad quality? There was a popular story not long ago about an American “model employee” who was caught outsourcing his programming job to a ghost writer in China.

  • freddy_hills

    Well, there are talented Asian engineers and programmers. So I don’t want to knock them. But that’s NOT what the program is being used for. It’s being used to drive down the wages of native born workers. It’s the same thing that happened with the meatpacking and construction industries. There used to be lots of native born workers doing these jobs. But the employers discriminated against Americans in favor of foreigners, illegals, etc because they wanted cheap obedient workers. The result was higher unemployment, lower wages and a lot of 3rd world illegals draining our tax dollars by using entitlements. And the business sector keeps screaming for more H1Bs and a guest worker program for the illegals. There is no shortage of workers. They just want cheap, obedient workers.


  • JoePatriot12345

    The Mythical Man Month is a classic book about IT labor productivity.

    Adding more programmers to a project lowers its success rate, and INCREASES the delivery date.

    Add in language, culture, and times zone issues (when offshoring to India/china, etc.) and the failure rates on these IT projects is insane.

    The sad thing is that American tech companies, in their anti-white anti-American racism (thinking all people around the world are equal, so just go for the cheapest) is causing their own technology demise.

  • crystalevans

    If what industry is needed are those STEM graduates with advanced degrees? Instead of going after foreign graduates, why not offer a loan forgiveness program or scholarships to these graduate students?

    • MikeS

      “Foreign” = non-White

      • Northerner

        “Foreign” = not American

  • Conan

    American tech workers are now experiencing a bit of a boon as companies are forced to hire them to clean up the messes made by their scab labor from the sub-continent. This house of cards cannot stand up for much longer.

    • Salarino

      A buddy of mine runs a call center in India and the company has to re-locate it back to the States soon due to the bumbling Indians.

  • jay11

    So why isn’t someone in the government and ‘industry’ lobbyists group going to JAIL for false information and all that?

    • bigone4u

      The US government is my enemy. They participate in the scam just as they give amnesty to illegals. Any excuse to get more un-American foreigners into the country. I saw it with my own eyes at the university I worked for.

  • AutomaticSlim

    “Proponents of H-1B visas argue that tech firms are unable to find qualified U.S. applicants for STEM positions”

    I have about 10 friends who are out of work. If these “proponents” can post an email address, I will forward their resumes.

    As an IT consultant who has worked in the Financial industry field for over 25 years, I can attest that the companies have no interest in “best and brightest” foreign workers.

    They want
    1) Cheap labor
    2) Long hours
    3) The inability or unwillingness to complain about 1 & 2

    This formula equals one thing and one thing only. Inaudible Indians ripe with B.O.
    And not only are their hygiene and English speaking skills severely lacking, their writing skills are atrocious as well. I currently work with one Indian who refuses to write an email, knowing that his writing skills are so poor, he would make a fool of himself. Unfortunately, his speaking skills are no better.

    If the US wants a sensible work visa policy, here it is:


    • Triarius

      As a young professional, I can attest to Indians and Chinese not being the smartest in the office and the Indians are far dumber, imo (average Indian IQ is comparable to American Blacks). There have been a few times I could smell Indians from 20 feet away, thank God they are not in my department. Saying the best and brightest Asians are coming over here to be overworked in STEM jobs is like saying the Mexicans jumping the borders are all doctors and lawyers. H-1B is a scam and every single business grad knows it.

      • Dave4088

        If you get five or more Indians in close proximity the smell can literally knock you off your feet. I think the book “The Camp of the Saints” called this “the stink of the East”.

  • I’m a retired Federal government worker. We had a lot of these foreign tech workers, and I noticed that if you questioned any of their work, their accent would suddenly become totally incomprehensible.

  • NYB

    I noticed East Indian and Chinese engineers and doctors coming in during the tech boom of the late 1990’s.

    Many of them promptly retired from their field as soon as they had enough money to invest in rental property. They didn’t want to work, all they wanted was to get in the door.

  • pcmustgo


    When did that become a “tech” field? Well, they do use computers all the time now for design, but… yeah…

  • bigone4u

    Now you know why your science and math professors speak English poorly, so poorly that you had to teach yourself the material. Universities hire HB-1’s even though there are qualified Americans to teach those courses. The immigrants work cheap, but cannot connect easily with American white students. Besides the student loan scam, this is another way that universities are screwing us.

  • Cherry Bomb

    Anone know if John Engelman is on this thread prattling on about Asians? If so, I will read no further.

  • StillModerated

    Ironically, Indians are painfully aware that their own techies are sub-par. Indian hi-tech companies are recruiting the best and brightest White engineers from Stanford and Berkeley and enticing them to work in India. You can have servants who cook and clean for you. $30,000 a year is a massive income in that part of the globe. Your wife can stay home and take care of your children. You’ll have a better life.

  • JoeMcCarthyy

    We need to be talking about graduate schools too.

    Foreigners ARE LITERALLY crowding out American students from getting PhDs.

    I know this for a fact. NYU Poly, for example, gives 92% of PhDs to foreigners. I am not kidding you. Go look it up yourself.

    The average is about 60% of engineering PhDs are given to foreigners in America.

    Funny little fact, however, is that the school with the lowest foreign grad student rate is … drum roll … MIT.

    Who would’ve guessed? MIT, the #1 engineering school only recruits 23% of its graduate students from overseas markets? No way!

    I thought those developing nations bursting at the seams with young IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) are soooo the future innovators!

    Give me a break!

    Indians are so dumb that they can’t figure out that if Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both didn’t even get bachelors degrees, then getting a PhD from an American university so you could walk around like a pompous a** and show poor American undergrads how incomprehensible you can make things with your accent and robot brain ISN’T GOING TO MAKE YOU innovate or accomplish anything creative that anyone cares about.

    I seriously despise the culture that these robo-brains bring into our universities that white parents pay taxes to subsidize.

    If you haven’t been in an engineering school lately, you have no idea what I’m talking about. Well, I can’t even begin to describe it. It is the extreme opposite of that white, articulate, vibrant, science teacher you had in high school.

    These Indian professors who come to America try to impose their caste system on our educational system. Everything to them is a game all about prestige and there is NO IMAGINATION or humility or creativity is ANY OF IT!

    Have you ever seen an inspiring scientist on television? Yea, he was probably some white guy like Feynman or Carl Sagan.

    Indians are the complete opposite. Bland, personality-less, robot brains.

    They are destroying our educational institutions and raping the minds of our native undergraduates.

    Trust me, I went to a top-50 engineering school and my undergraduate director was a 50-60 year old Indian who got his masters from IIT, his PhD from America, and sounded like he just started speaking English with Rosetta Stone 5 minutes ago.

    • Triarius

      Don’t forget the favoritism and grade changing they do for students who look like them. I’m Italian and got a better grade from a professor that was muslim because I told him I was Lebanese. I probably should have gotten a B+, I got an A. I check my test scores online afterwords and saw there was no mathematical way I could have gotten an A.

      I was on the waiting list at Ross before I got in. I always wondered if I would have gotten in with that B+ since it affected my major GPA.

  • Michael_C_Scott

    Of the two H-1bs, both from India I have met, both had PhDs, and neither could have invented his way out of a paper bag with a chainsaw or a flamethrower.

  • Whats wrong with this? Diversity at all costs.

    They whine about everything. You have fortune 500 companies promoting miscegenation, promoting homosexuality, but they demand that these companies hire blacks and gays as their CEO to prove how forward thinking they are. They don’t give a crap about meritocracy.

    If tech companies can’t find workers in America, maybe they should target Scandinavia, lot of highly educated people for jobs that don’t exist, but are useful, which is funny, socialists educate their people to get high skilled jobs, where as the US education has degrees in things that will never get you a job.

  • Zackers

    The best and brightest are hiring foreign labor to save money. The government should hire them and pay them to find ways to keep foreigners out. .

  • Tucker

    Two names of at least two prominent treasonous politicians who I have recently heard say they were hugely in favor of expanding the number of H1-B Visas for ‘high tech’ jobs in America:

    1. Mark Warner, left-wing, closet Communist Democrat Senator from the state of Virginia.

    2. Orin Hatch, RINO, neo-con, Trotyskite Communist Republicrat Senator from the state of Utah.

    Incidentally, both of these two treasonous rats make a few sweet sounding noises about attaching some vague and easily side-stepped stipulations that employers will have to make an effort to find a suitable native born American before resorting to hiring an H1-B Visa scab worker, but that is nothing more than a smokescreen. These stipulations, as the hard evidence clearly proves, are deliberately designed to have all sorts of devious loop-holes and are easily avoided by these vulture capitalists and treasonous, globalist minded employers who have zero loyalty to their own fellow citizens, or to the future of their own nation.

    Oh, and for all those brainless, poorly educated, mostly White numbskulls who voted for the despicable Newt Gingrich during the RINO primaries in 2012- old Newt, along with Bob Dole, and Bill Clinton – were the three Devils who gave birth to NAFTA and that was the beginning of this outsourcing, off-shoring, and H1-B treason.

  • JohnEngelman

    A number of posters here are directing their anger at H-1B workers, rather than at the employers who would rather hire them than offer American citizens secure well paying jobs in technology fields.

    I have a university degree, twenty years of experience as a computer programmer, and specialized training. Several years ago I applied for a three month position in the city where I live. I was told I was competing with a computer programmer who lived in Katmandu, Nepal.

    When the recruiter asked me, “Why have you been unemployed so long?”

    I answered, “That’s why.”

    • Michael_C_Scott

      I spent three years in federal prison and was honest about that when I was still on probation and looking for a regular job. Finally I started lying on job apps, which temporarily got me more play. Eventually, I just quit looking for steady work.

      I would probably be in the Army Reserve right now if it hadn’t been for my 2006 stroke; I was almost off federal probation (you can’t ship if you’re on any sort of paper), and had everything I needed from the recruiter. I wanted combat branches and regular enlisted track instead of being dead-ended as a “Specialist”. I was paralyzed for two hours the morning of my stroke, which woke me up, and I still can’t run.

      If we’re angry at H-1b “workers”, it is because we consider them identity thieves, but sending them home is all I would countenance. The folks who hire them and the elected officials who allow this need to be lamp-post ornaments.

      I hope that helps clear things up for you from Hard-Rightistan.

      And I am sorry, John. A fellow ought to be able to make a living in his own country.

      • SmithandSmith

        Why are you apologizing? No American needs to apologize for daring to expect to be able work in his own Country of Birth and with American Wages and Benefits.

  • JohnEngelman

    More immigrants mean more people. More people inflate prices, deflate wages, and raise profits.

    Republican politicians who say they must ease restrictions on immigration in order to win the votes of immigrants are probably more interested in pleasing their campaign contributors in the business world.

  • BAW

    I’m surprised that no one has mentioned one major downside of these H-1B folks: industrial espionage and intellectual property theft.

  • rebelcelt

    Oh where do i begin. I used to place I.T. workers until the indians put us and all the other small companies out of buisness. We cannot find Americans my a**. I was good at it. I could find them they just do not want to pay Americans, nor invest in them.When the corps started to drift to client servers and away from maniframe the companies invested very little in retraining.
    If a new software or language comes out and thousands of companies are moving to it overnight, of course there is a temporary shortage the software/language did not exist a couple of years ago. India has a couple of huge diploma mill Universities where students have to bribe their teachers to pass. They learn on the U.S. Corps dime.
    Also, let us remember that China has a new stealth missle that radar cannot detect. This makes our whole Navy including multibillion dollar Carriers obsolete. How did they get this technology…. from a damn Indian that worked for an American defense contractor for twenty years.Then went and sold his expertise with the Chinese.

  • Eddie Willers

    I’m going to add another dimension to this discussion with a tale from south Texas…

    Many school districts, with heavily Hispanic student rolls, are under forced to offer instruction in Spanish – particularly at grades 1-4 – to overcome student’s lack of English and enable compliance with various federal ukases.

    They have hit upon a novel method of overcoming the ‘problem’ of finding qualified Americans (ie: those with Spanish as mother-tongue, high-level ability in English, experienced as teachers etc) by hiring Mexicans on H1-B. These Mexican teachers must have at least 2 years experience, an undergraduate degree in a field of sufficient utility and have passed the Texas Educators Association (TEA) exam.

    My Mexican wife is one of these new teachers. Her pay is the same as her Anglo colleagues, the workload is broadly similar. She has to pay into the Texas teacher’s retirement system (which she cannot claim back from, being a non-resident alien) as well as the usual gallimaufry of state and federal deductions and annual lawyer’s costs for visa processing. Her employment contract is for three years but H1-B is issued year-to-year, there is no automatic right of renewal.

    Thinking ahead (or not, as the case may be) I thought about going along the same path (I’m a Limey with Mexican citizenship) but got short shrift from the training service providers as well as the school district admins I spoke with. Seems that a middle aged, Anglo (albeit Spanish fluent) teacher is not what they want…I wonder why?

  • mobilebay

    There seems to be a concerted effort to replace all Americans in jobs, low-skilled or the most qualified grads. I cannot understand how so many businesses can ignore Americans when it comes it hiring. Is is really cheaper to hire foreign labor and train them, clean up after their mistakes and battle daily with a culture that is not compatible with ours? We need to stop all immigration until this country gets back on its feet, then make entry only to a limited number. As far as illegal aliens, our government is about thirty years behind in sending them all home.

  • anarchyst

    The H-1B visa program was NEVER about a “lack” of “qualified” workers. This program was pandering by BOTH major political parties at the expense of the native American (white) worker.
    The Republicans promoted this program to get votes from business owners while the Democrats saw immigrants themselves as a good source of votes. Our founding fathers warned us about “party politics”–they enrich themselves while us native-born Americans suffer . . .

  • Tried to buy a dvd recorder.The ones made in china.Had to find one not made in china.China uses slave labor and what you get is slave quality.By importing h1bs at slave labor wages you get slave labor quality.

  • Dave4088

    I recently worked for a corporation who began hiring Indians. Most of them are not as smart as billed, make numerous mistakes on work projects, are less efficient, but work at a salary that is anywhere from 33% to 50% of an American worker with little health benefits.

  • Michael_C_Scott

    I am being deliberately prevented by Disqus from seeing anything past the first page here.

    I would like to find out who is responsible for this problem, which has surfaced only in the last 24 hours.

    I would like his name and home address.

  • SmithandSmith

    I’m having the same problem as Michael_C_Scott. I’m trying to respond to RebelCelt but I can’t get down to her post. – and now it “magically” works…

    I posted this post and then went down the page again and lo and behold, there was that “load more comments” bar. Is it just Micheal’s and my computer? Anyone else having this problem?

    • That’s a bug…er, feature of Disqus.

      • SmithandSmith

        Hello Moderator!

        While this sure beats your old posting system (no instantaneous posting), it’d sure be nice if things actually worked here in America like they used to. It seems ‘hit or miss’ is the order of the day these days. I so badly miss American Quality.

  • Jealous because the Gulen teachers from Turkic countries can teach and speak better english than American qualified teachers?
    Just kidding of course, to add insult to injury. The Gulen Movement is using American tax money to pay for their h1-b Visas while they displace more American teachers.