Even in Medical School, Affirmative Action Rules

Chris Mondie, American Thinker, December 16, 2012

When it comes to becoming a physician, the academic rigors, years of schooling, and personal sacrifice common to the effort are well-known.  This process is a sort of rite of passage, an intellectual marathon that only the best and brightest can complete.  As such, medical schools should select candidates best-suited to excel throughout school and cultivate the skills that will allow them to practice in the best health care system in the world.  The process by which these candidates are selected, however, may come as a shock.

In examining documents made public by the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC), it becomes apparent that race plays a disturbingly large role in the medical student application process.  The documents provide data about the applicant pool from years 2009-2011—namely, the number of applicants within a given GPA and MCAT score range, and how many of those applicants gained acceptance to a school.  These data, it turns out, are organized by race.

A quick scan of the documents reveals that white students applying to medical school with a GPA in the 3.40-3.59 range and with an MCAT score in the 21-23 range (a below-average score on a test with a maximal score of 45) had an 11.5% acceptance rate (total of 1,500 applicants meeting these criteria).  Meanwhile, a review of minority students (black, Latino, and Native American) with the same GPA and MCAT range had a 42.6% acceptance rate (total of 745 applicants meeting these criteria).  Thus, as a minority student with a GPA and MCAT in the aforementioned ranges, you are more than 30% more likely to gain acceptance to a medical school.

An equally unsettling statistic is that another AAMC study uncovered that accepted students with an MCAT of 27 or lower had an overall attrition rate of 2.5% in the first two years of medical school.  This is more than double the 1.1% attrition rate for those who scored a 28 or above.  Despite these statistics, 42.6% of minority applicants with a score of 21-23 (and a marginal GPA) were accepted.

Delving in a bit farther, an additional document put forth by the AAMC outlines a reasonably large study performed for three matriculating medical school classes.  The study followed each class for ten years (as some students took longer than the allotted four years to complete their degree).  The data show that of the students in the 1995 matriculating class, attrition rates were as follows: 0.7% for whites, 3.4% for Latinos, 6.7% for blacks/African-Americans, 0.9% for Asians, and 4.3% for Native Americans.  Upon surveying those who did drop out, the study states that the majority of black/African-American, Native American, and Latino students cited “academic reasons,” while the majority of the white and Asian students cited “non-academic reasons.”

The data here conclusively point to the fact that academically weak students who are accepted tend to drop out of medical school at a higher rate—a conclusion that certainly isn’t earth-shattering.  These specific data have nothing to do with linking race to attrition rates.  The data appear merely to be be skewed because a larger percentage of poorly qualified applicants are accepted from minority groups.

These numbers are not only disturbing, but downright disheartening.  As a previous medical school applicant myself, I feel cheated when I think that my work and grades were looked at less favorably than those of other students with similar grades—and that in some instances those with lower grades could have been chosen over me—based on race.  How can we afford to select future physicians by a process that, to an extent, elects to overlook academic performance?  Is this what affirmative action has become?

Once a tool that sought to eliminate race from the employment process in an effort to promote equality, affirmative action has taken on a life of its own.  It is now a dominant force that has countered racism with more racism.  Affirmative action sends the message to others that they aren’t good enough to attain their goals on their own.  It says that individuals need some sort of a handicap to get to where they want to be.  This is not the spirit of America; these are the same injustices that we so diligently fought against in the past.  How can we afford to overlook them now?

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  • Triarius

    If you ever needed a reason not to go to a black or hispanic doctor.

    • The__Bobster

      You may have no choice under Obongocare. You might as well go to a with doctor.

      Now let’s look at their MCAT scores:


    • 48224

      When I was younger and more PC, I actually went to a black doctor for a while. He gave me medication I turned out to be allergic to. I stopped taking it, symptoms stopped, started again, symptoms came back. I KNEW I was having a bad reaction to the medicatiion. I told my witch doctor (he was literally from Africa) all this and he instructed me to try it one more time. I ended up in the ER, spent the night there on an IV drip. Darn near killed me.

      Now I have a white doctor and i’m not so PC anymore!!!!

      • Bernie

        “I KNEW I was having a bad reaction to the medicatiion. I told my witch doctor (he was literally from Africa) all this…”


  • You Are Now Enriched

    These are the Diversity doctors whom Obamacare will force into “too White” communities. Your White wives and daughters will not be allowed to use a White obgyn.

    “We just can’t allow Whites to treat their most intimate medical care with Whites Only hands. Unless blacks are allowed access, we can’t make progress.”

    -Obamacare Officer of Diverse Outcomes

    • josh

      And those black doctors will enjoy themselves!

    • Canis Lupus

      At least the obgyn will be a female.

  • I knew a white guy who graduated with a 3.4 gpa who ended up going to a medical school in the Caribbean and did some schooling in England. Most medical schools do not admit student with MCAT scores below 30.

  • I don’t see any republicans bringing this matter to the attention of the general public. Since whites aren’t going to actually DO anything about it, why not go for the full 100% of ALL medical school openings go to minorities?

    • 48224

      they are all afraid of being called racist.


    Obamacare has within the 2,000 pages special funding and rules about what Medical Schools can and can not do. They MUST admit Africans and the schools are actually provided Millions to grant them scholarships.

    I’m not kidding. It is actually in there.

  • IstvanIN

    I once had an Indian doctor who couldn’t tell the difference between my severely swollen knee and my normal knee, while I was wearing shorts, mind you, and had to point out the swollen knee after she pronounced me OK.

    • The__Bobster

      My brother’s turban-topped doctor injected anesthetic into his knee AFTER he used a much larger needle to inject dye into it. Well, I suppose the cow he practiced on didn’t complain too much.

    • MerlinV

      Thats like going to the dentist and having the wrong tooth pulled which is what happened to me after going to a DDS from Bangladesh. He did go ahead and pull the correct one for free.

      • IstvanIN

        Oh my heavens, did he re-implant the healthy tooth?

    • i am

      I have had the same problem with female doctors who graduated from the university of Jerusalem. They had white skin, but they acted like they weren’t white. One didn’t know the difference between Aspirin and Antibiotics. I told her I was allergic to a specific anti-biotic, and she told me it didn’t exist, and that I was talking about Aspirin. I looked on-line, and it does exist. Another on of these female doctors, in an emergency room, couldn’t tell there was something wrong with my shoulder after I got hit by a car, and my shoulder was swollen and hanging down 6″ more on one side than the other. I had to get up and walk to the mirror and tell her to look at my hands: My right index finger was below my knee cap on the right side. She kept acting stupid. The Mexican nurse looked at her then me, and her eyes got real big. Even she could tell the doctor didn’t know what she was doing.

      • olu

        It’s about culture and education not skin color or “race” literally (“acting like you’re white”?.


    The author of this article is an idiot. Towards the end he/she tries to say Affirmative Action had some good points. It never did.

    The purpose of AA was to FORCE Blacks into programs. Affirmative is just another word for “force”. It was and is race based. It is racist. It is a crime and it is definitely ANTI White.

    If AA is so good, let us add those letters to the degree. Got in with AA, they your degrees will show “B.S.A.A” all the way up to MD.AA.

    What? You aren’t proud of this? The qualified Black doctors aren’t proud to show how they took on the “man” and fought for equality and studied and showed all those rednecks that they HAD the ability but were denied access to Med School due to the color of their skin?

    The only reason Blacks were not admitted is because they did not have the intelligence. Only by lowering the standards, as the report show, could you find “justification” for admission.

    Don’t Ever go to a African doctor. Leave the office. Don’t come back. Find a White Doctor since you know they are always smarter than the average African who was forced into the Med School.

  • guest

    Where there’s affirmative action, there are always problems. Affirmative action is nothing but a free ride for non-whites and nobody can possibly believe that it promotes equality and helps fight racism. And if medical schools are choosing diverse quotas over those who are well qualified for a medical career, we’re in serious trouble.

  • John

    My friends, we been living in a complete sham of a country for many decades and it will only become worse.

    Gerrymandering forces us at gunpoint to elect and condone a Congress filled with unqualified Blacks, Browns, and Muslims without any merit whatsoever, based exclusively on their race, ethnicity, and/or radical “religion”.

    Likewise, affirmative action, equal employment opportunity laws, civil rights laws, equal housing laws, desegregation laws, and other race-based laws are nothing more than a legalized quota system for forcing Whites at gunpoint to select token individuals for jobs, college admissions, promotions, contracts, etc.

    Our entire country is now based on nothing but a ridiculous exercise in perpetually pacifying the multicultural gods on the left; however, it is even worse than that. We are forced at gunpoint to dispossess, yield, and stand aside for Blacks, Browns, and Muslims!

    It’s very disquieting to live this lie day in and day out; a lie where everyone walks around in full masquerade, playing their part and pretending that Blacks, Browns, and Muslims are our intellectual equals, while the government stacks the deck higher and higher against us. When will the tide turn, if ever?

    Would my intellectual or social “equals” require gerrymandering and a vast array of affirmative action laws to compete with me? If we’re going to have multiculturalism forced upon us at gunpoint, do not expect me to nod politiely and agree that my lessors are my intellectual and social equals. Either they are or they are not, and the evidence completely confirms the latter, otherwise, as a point of logic, gerrymandering and race-based laws would simply not exist.

    • Tom_in_Miami

      “When will the tide turn, if ever?” Only when we send the signal that we’ve had enough and that had better be soon or it will be too late.

      • Brian

        The tide will turn when the lies begin to collapse under their own weight. The numbers say its only a matter of time now.

        … Or when the infrastructure of the nation collapses; water, power, bridges, because not enough White engineers or spare parts are available to keep it all together.
        … or when a cascading series of city bankruptcies begins to hit America.
        … or when a Black gang chooses the wrong angry and armed person to attack, and the result is a bloodbath.
        … or when China refuses to bankroll our total failure any longer.
        … or when any of a number of overseas alien terrorist groups our non-existant immigration protections have allowed into America decide to devastate the economy with a hundred simultaneous outbreaks of Foot and Mouth disease.
        … Or when the stock market then the economy collapses.

        I personally don’t think we have long till any, or perhaps all, of these things begin to happen.

    • Bon, From the Land of Babble

      The Old Soviet Union was built on a pack lies — “Workers’ Paradise,” egalitarianism and all that other rot. It finally collapsed in on itself because the lies were impossible to maintain.

      Unfortunately, 63 million died to “prove” that communism doesn’t work — because it goes against every grain of human nature.

      Same thing here, the signs are there for all to see. This will end not in tears, but in ashes.


  • veritas_lux_mea

    Thank you for this story, Amren. As someone currently in med school, though not the in-state school of my choice (which would have been MUCH cheaper), I have long suspected my being a person without color had something to do with it. Both my GPA and MCAT were higher then the average for those admitted to the school. The reason they gave for not accepting me was some incredibly trivial issue with my application. Glad to know I wasn’t imagining this. Affirmative action is, to put it bluntly, f******* b***s***.

    • Luca

      It’s worse than that. It endangers lives for the useless cause of diversity.

      • Michael Alan Prock

        A 1999 survey of 298 internal medicine residency directors revealed that “underrepresented minorities” were among the top three groups at greatest risk of being identified as having insufficient medical knowledge and poor clinical judgment, and therefore to be a “problem resident.” A problem resident is defined by the American Board of Internal Medicine as “a trainee who demonstrates a significant enough problem that requires intervention by someone of authority.” The other two groups most likely to be identified as problem residents were residents over 35 and international medical graduates.
        [National Survey of Internal Medicine Residency Program Directors Regarding Problem Residents; David C. Yao, MD, MPH & Scott M. Wright, MD; JAMA, September 6, 2000, Volume 284, No. 9; pp. 1099-1101]
        A study reported in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education revealed that Graduates of Howard University and Meharry Medical College, both historically Black medical schools, are 10 times more likely to come before disciplinary review boards than graduates of other medical schools in their areas, more likely than all
        medical schools in the United States and are disciplined more often than doctors practicing in the U.S. that graduated from schools in India, Mexico, Turkey, the Philippines and other third world countries. Among the 200 medical schools surveyed, 4.38 percent of Maharry graduates and nearly 3 percent of Howard graduates had faced disciplinary actions, compared to 0.67 percent at Yale and 0.22 percent at Dartmouth.
        [Newspaper Study Says Physicians Who Are Graduates of Historically Black Medical Schools Are More Likely to Have Faced Professional Disciplinary Action; The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education 41; Autumn 2003; pp. 118-121]
        Conrad Murray, recently convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the death of singer Michael Jackson from a fatal overdose, was a graduate of Meharry Medical

    • Dr. X

      This is actually old news, and it’s far worse than than the author of the article implies. If you read the Supreme Court’s 1978 Bakke decision, you’ll find that Bakke had a 3.9 GPA and scores of 95-97% on the old MCAT (scored out of 100%) scoring system, yet was twice rejected from UC Davis Med School. But the school had a “minority” program that admitted applicants with GPAs as low as 2.0 and scores in the 25-30% range on the old MCAT. The Court ruled that blatant “racial” discrimination was unconstitutional, but discrimination and differential discrimination to achieve “diversity” was OK. And you know what? Obamacare is going to make it FAR worse than it already is.

      • veritas_lux_mea

        I obviously knew that affirmative action was being practiced all over the place, but I had never seen any racial statistics for med school admissions. That’s all I really meant. And you’re absolutely right about Obamacare. It’s chock-full of AA. Institutions with a “proven record of training individuals from under-represented minority groups” will receive significant government grants. So medical, dental, nursing, optometry schools etc. now all have financial incentive to discriminate against whites, on top of the already existing incentive of “enrichment.” Also, hospitals and other health care institutions who have consistent unequal racial health outcomes can face very hefty fines. So if hospitals can not raise black outcomes up to white levels, white people might literally be sacrificed on the altar of diversity.

      • josh

        I assume you have read about what happened to Bakke and the black gentleman who got into med school in his place?Bakke went to another school and has a long and succesful career;I think he was an anesthielogist(sp??)The BLACK guy went on to disgrace himself,as he was a butcher who trashed many of his patients and also was charged with multiple sexual assaults upon female patients. Diversity is our strength!!

        • Tom_in_Miami

          I forget the alleged doctor’s name who took Bakke’s slot, but I believe he has finally lost his license for killing several patients in his abortion pracatice. Lesson: Don’t ever go to a black doctor unless you have absolutely no other choice.

          • Flossie

            Yes, you’re thinking of Patrick Chavis. In addition to abortions, he performed fly-by-night liposuction. One of his patients bled to death after a botched operation. Chavis hid her body and fled. His California medical license was suspended in the 1990s. He was later murdered late one night in “an apparent robbery.”

      • Tarczan

        OK, but how do they pass the medical tests? Isn’t there a minimum level of competence that is still pretty high? I am an engineer and I am studying for a new test enacted in my state of Ohio. It’s administered by a national agency, . It’s a two day test with MC questions in the am and handwritten problems in the pm. the tests are gtraded by teams with only a number assigned to the applicant. If a darkie could pass this test he’d be a pretty good engineer.
        Isn’t it similar in medicine?

    • josh

      You have got to just be strong study like demon and be the best you can possibly be.Put your anger into your work,baby!Maybe someday I will need you!

  • Bezrodniy Kosmopolit

    Yes, the good medical schools admit unqualified AfrAm students. Most quit in the first year–like any graduate education, getting in is the easy part. Those who survive and enter practice are usually as good as anyone else. There are also HBCU medical schools, where the AfrAm students do not quit in the first year. They become physicians, but they seldom have the smarts to become board-certified. Just make sure that your physican is board-certified, and you can be sure of the quality.

    • That is until someone notices that not enough blacks and Hispanics are board-certified. Then things will change.

    • John

      When I go to a non-Hispanic White male doctor, as I have always done, he may or may not be a quack, but I am 100 percent certain that he is not the beneficiary of affirmative action and he is definitely not the angry descendant of African savages with an axe to grind against Whites.

      More to the point, there is absolutely no way for anyone to tell which Blacks or Browns are legitimately qualified/certified and which ones are “affirmative action hires”; hires that were very likely the beneficiary of “holistic evaluations” that ignored classroom performance and test results. Plus, leftist professors in academia are renowned for giving Blacks the benefit of the doubt, as well as passing them so as not to appear racist in the eyes of the ultra-leftist college administrators with racial quotas to meet.

      Today, the problem has developed an additional negative feedback loop as completely unqualified Blacks and Browns are now fully integrated as “professors” and “administrators” in academia, and they have a score to settle with Whites, as voting patterns clearly show, so rest assured, they will ensure maximum Black and Brown admission, graduation, and advancement.
      Also rest assured, I will never seek or permit services from non-Whites. There are too many good Whites who deserve the same racial allegiance from me as Obama demands and receives from 96% to 100% of Blacks.

  • Bill

    I refuse service from black doctors and nurses. The universally adopted “patient’s bill of rights” allows me to do so without having to give a reason. And I exercise that right. Everybody should do so. If everybody did that, hospitals and clinics would soon get rid of them. They might be able to force medical schools to accept these sub-par “students” but the clinics and hospitals cannot make you allow them to treat you. Exercise your rights.

  • 48224

    I was talking to a recently graduated med. school doctor doing his first year as an intern. He was a white guy. He told me you basically had to have a 4.0 in ALL science classes to get into a decent med. school if you are a white male. He seemed pretty angry about it.
    Where will this madness end? They already spend more on black k-12 students than on the white students. I guess the next step is to ban books, ban teaching white students to read until age 10….so the rest can catch up. Only half joking.
    It will be interesting to see how much white will take.

    • olu

      Well just kind one guy “said it” doesn’t mean it’s true maybe he was just pissed off because he didn’t get into the school of his choice…if anything statistics show that Asian-Americans have to cross a higher threshold than whites.

      • 48224

        So what are you saying…..affirmative action is a myth???? “One guy” my arse.

        • Oliver Lu

          If that’s what you think my argument was I’m not sure what to tell you…anyway how well did you know this guy? Maybe he was just a legacy admission to the med school he attended and had struggled with grades as a result.

          P.S. Whites (along with Ashkenazic Jews) are the creators and perpetuators of affirmative action, it’s absurd to ask “how much longer they will take it”. The question is, how much longer will they continue to do it to themselves (in reality it’s [mainly {upper} middle-class] white liberals doing it working-class/lower middle class white conservatives.

          • 48224

            No I think you are wrong about WHO is behind affirmative action. There is an upper class, middle class, and lower class. There is also a political class. It is the liberal political class that perpetuates affirmative action to appease their supporters. I am a white male and I have been discriminated against in the work place. And I wasn’t the only white male that felt that way….we all knew that less qualified blacks had to be promoted ahead of us just to keep the peace. So now I have my own business.

            Yes, I agree that Asians and Ashkenazic Jews get higher scores on all standardized tests. No argument there. However, when you look at all the great inventors….almost all white males. White males work very had and I believe carry an “idea gene” where they are able to come up with ideas and then develop them into reality where other races lag behind. PS, I include Jews as white. Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid. Where would you place them???

  • Susan

    Recently ,a friend went to a black podiatrist and was (surprise) misdiagnosed.Now he is wearing a cast on his ankle and paying the price for seeing this incompetent doctor.I guess we all have to learn the hard way.I will never see another minority doctor as I had a similar incident.

  • Germanacus

    True story:
    The topic of, “Would you go to a doctor who got into medical school through affirmative action?” was brought up on a radio program. Blacks themselves were calling in and saying flat-out that they would not go to such a doctor. The host, who was White, was saying, ” But but that would be raaaaycissss.”

    The blacks calling in were more intelligent and honest than that put-on “white” woman host was!

    Can you imagine needing to have your eyes surgically operated on and then requesting Quintricious Washington III, Capricorn, MD., to do the surgery after learning he was an AA student?

    Get real!

    • gemjunior

      My mother has heart problems and she always drove down to Manhattan to see a cardiologist she had gotten used to. I kept advising her to find one up north closer to where we live now. So after Hurricane Sandy she began having symptoms and went to a nearby office with several cardiologists. Comes home and tells me she saw a black fella, and she had an appointment with him to follow up. He would be taking her case over if she would have her files sent over from NY hosp. So, needless to say. I went over and got her switched. I don’t want her to take chances with her life. Incidentally my 80-year old mother is a big lib who is still laboring under extreme stupidity, since she’s never been near a black in her life. My son made a wisecrack about it being a “surprise” when we passed a crime scene with two young gangsta’s with their hands on the car being cuffed. My mother tells him – Stop that! White people commit crime too! So my 16 year old son tells her – Yeah, except whites commit one crime for every hundred by blacks.

    • Tarczan

      Don’t worry, all the black people will get the white doctors, and the black doctors will be sent to the white areas, whichever ones are left.

  • Howard W. Campbell

    I will purposely use the services of a black doctor the same day I use the services of an AA electrician. There have been a couple of occasions where I was seen by a black doctor, but I wasn’t paying for it. It is because of this idiocy that we will probably see an explosion of Medical Tourism in the next few years. Especially to countries that have standards in place for their doctors and dentists. As with the tax code, I can see ObamaCare morphing into something far worse that what will come down the pike in 2014. How long before you are prosecuted because you don’t want your parents (or grandparents) in a nursing home where 80+% of the staff is black? That, or you are forbidden to leave the country because you do not wish to have an operation from Dr. Quantavious Washington.

    The Simpson’s (Itchy & Scratchy: The Movie (1992))

    Homer: “If you don’t start making more sense, we’re going to have to put you in a home.
    Grampa:You already put me in a home.
    Homer: Then we’ll put you in the crooked home we saw on 60 Minutes.
    Grampa: [cowering] I’ll be good.”

    Imagine in a few years if there is an app that will tell you the percentage of minorities that work at a medical facility. (That one will probably go over as well as the Microsoft ” Avoid Ghetto” app). You try to get the folks into a facility in the boondocks that has an all white staff. The government intervenes and effectively busses mom and dad to the inner city nursing home because you cannot pick a facility more than 20 miles from your zip code if you live near a major metropolitan area. You are not allowed to opt out and take care of your folks at home. Do not be surprised if we see this nitwittery in the not too distant future.

  • RHG

    I had to go to a Urgent Care here in my city and deal with some foreign doctor who prescribed some antibiotics. I had an allergic reaction to these antibiotics and went to a different Urgent Care closer to home and saw a different foreign doctor who told me I had to go to the emergency room. Well, co-pay 450 bucks later a white guy doctor in the emergency room adjusted my prescription and sent me home. This was something the second foreign “doctor” could have done and save me some money. This is the kind of incompetence we see in the medical field in this country nowadays, but I guess they’re just doing the jobs Americans don’t want to do. Btw, while in the emergency room I couldn’t help wonder how many other patients my insurance was paying for that night.

    • That can’t be true ! Something like that NEVER happens in TV shows !

  • ncpride

    I found myself looking for a new doctor a few years back after mine of 20 years retired. That old fella was an excellent doctor, and the most un-PC person in the world. His brash bluntness caught me off guard at first, but then I grew to appreciate his honesty and straight forwardness. He never minced words, that’s for sure! Too bad most of the doctors of his generation are retiring, or getting out of the game all together.

  • CourtneyfromAlabama

    Blacks aside, can someone please explain to me why Indian doctors are so celebrated?

    • Haven’t you watched old Westerns ? Indians as “medicine men” ?

  • APaige

    I did a little research at the site. Medical School Matriculation for 2011 revealed that the average overall GPA for Whites was 3.70 and for Asians it was 3.69. Total MCAT scores for Asians was 32.3 and for Whites it was 31.5 BOTH were bested by the racial group….”No Race”-3.72 and 32.7. Any bets on the no race group being White and Asian? The Black scores were 3.44 and 26.3

  • Luca

    As a sign of protest I think white medical students should either legally change their last names to “Mendez” or attend class in black face.

    Also, ever notice when the libs lament about minority academic scores that Asians seem to mysteriously become a non-issue. Why can Asians compete on a level playing field but the other minorities can’t. Hmm…let me ponder that one for a while.

    • I recommend reading Amy Chua’s book Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother to find out why Asians can compete on a level playing field. How many tiger mothers do you see among black and Latino single mothers? Not many because most of them did not bother to complete school. Kids raised by a tiger mother do not watch tv, instead they practice piano or violin. Ghetto mothers buy Playstations and other video games for their kids.

      • Luca

        Somewhere in the middle is the truth. It’s part culture and part intelligence. Those with a lower intelligence also have a lesser culture. It’s a vicious cycle and it’s all bad.

      • That book is actually horrible (I don’t mean writing, but moral atmosphere). Ron Unz has written an excellent article I found at Takimag & it’s well worth reading:http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

      • Bon, From the Land of Babble

        What Amy Chua does to her children is child abuse.

        And again, FTR, low IQ is the factor as to why blacks and hispanics do not achieve at the level of Whites and Asians. Poor and slovenly parenting is also a reflection of low IQ.

        I am not a “Tiger Mother” in any way, shape or form, NEVER brow beat my kids or forced them to practice the violin or piano for hours on end — but both of my kids achieved at a VERY high level, my daughter 2nd in her class in a very competitive high school, the other one studying math and programming at a UC, earning A’s and 5’s in AP Physics I and II, Biology and Calculus AB and BC, now A’s in Boolian and Linear Algebra.

        This is from the expectations I had for them, drive and focus, along with the necessary IQ points. They WANTED to achieve.


    • olu

      As-Ams don’t compete on a “level playing field”…they have to get higher scores than Caucasians, both for undergrad *and* grad.

      • Luca

        They compete on a level playing field and they score the higher goals. My point is they don’t need affirmative action or artificial boosts. When slots are given to certain under-achievers everyone else suffers. Claims such as yours are often debunked, it would be blatant discrimination to deny someone admission based on race and Asians would be rolling in the settlement money if that were provably true.


        • Oliver Lu

          If you don’t think there is *some* anti-Asian bias in the U.S. you are living in a parallel universe, it’s also a myth that Asian-Americans across the board “don’t need help” this mainly applies to kids from Northeast Asian backgrounds (i.e. Chinese/Japanese/Korean); *many* Asian-American students of Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/etc. heritages struggle socially and academically.

          The article/blog you cited AT NO POINT ever “debunks” the argument that students of Asian backgrounds are discriminated against, it says that they need higher scores but it is unclear as to whether that is evidence of discrimination in and of itself (not the same thing). (Of course there are the perfunctory denials by admissions officials but such statements are meaningless for obvious reasons.)

          If your only other argument is that otherwise “Asians” would be suing, this is beginning to happen but its (previous) absence cannot be considered persuasive in light of cultural prohibitions among most Asian immigrants against attacking social institutions, unfamiliarity with the legal system, and general unfamiliarity with filing lawsuits as a way of resolving disputes.

          • Luca

            Generally speaking, Northern Asians have higher IQ’s and a better culture than most other races in the US. Having said that and seeing how they have better per capita income than Caucasians, what exactly is your complaint? The reason you have to score higher is because of Liberal agendas (BTW.. Asians tend to vote liberal, explain that one to me) that insist on artificially increasing enrollment of other minorities to achieve some mythical racial harmony in admissions. Whites also suffer from this Liberal inflicted idiocy.

            Understand this, discrimination is natural and happens everywhere, every day and from every population on earth. People are discriminated against because they are ugly, nerdy, too short, too tall, too fat or too skinny etc etc.

            So what? Cry me a river. When life presents hurdles you need to find ,a way around them instead of crying discrimination. And as I said, most Asians start out with a better culture, a higher IQ and more money, and yet you still find something to cry about. What a waste of our time that is.

          • Oliver Lu

            “Generally speaking, Northern Asians have higher IQ’s and a better
            culture than most other races in the US. Having said that and seeing how
            they have better per capita income than Caucasians, what exactly is
            your complaint?”

            Assuming you’re not just playing dumb, imagine a scenario in which the posted cover charge for a club is ten dollars…blacks and Latinos are allowed in for five, while Asians are charged twelve…many (Asians) are able to pay the price and are duly allowed in…and you ask what their complaint is? (Btw “Northern Asians” as you put it have been shown to have higher IQs on average [if you put in stock in that measurement] than *all* other races in North America i.e. including white (unless you count Ashkenazic Jews as a race).

            Nor is the higher standard simply because of a “liberal agenda” (although it’s very difficult to prove informal discrimination, especially when critiquing an inherently subjective process), anyway the voting patterns of Asian-Americans are predicated on more than just affirmative action. (And most liberals are white, you talk as if they are some group of people without any ethnic markers whatsoever.)

            “Understand this, discrimination is natural and happens everywhere,
            every day and from every population on earth. People are discriminated
            against because they are ugly, nerdy, too short, too tall, too fat or
            too skinny etc etc.…So what? Cry me a river.”

            And yet you are complaining about reverse discrimination, why don’t you just “suck it up”?

          • Luca

            I guess you just like to argue and complain. I say Northern Asians have higher IQ’s and you come back with: “Btw “Northern Asians” as you put it have been shown to have higher IQs on average.” I think that looks like agreement but you make it sound like you are enlightening me. Okay.

            Your analogy about the cover charge is exactly what I am talking about regarding the Liberal Agenda. Liberals think you and I have more money so we should pay more (or score higher) and blacks and latinos pay half. That’s reality, that’s what the Liberals want. Liberals think this is fair, I don’t, but I am not posting a complaint about the situation just shedding light on it. You on the other hand complain that you allegedly have to score higher than Caucasians to get into college.

            You and I are in the same boat and should be on the same page. We both suffer from Liberal agendas. I started this thread in defense of Asians and I am baffled how you have turned so defensive about it. I guess because you possess a portion of the Race Card you are using it to cry discrimination. I have no such card and had to achieve everything in life on my own. I have veteran status but I never used it in an affirmative action capacity.

            Caucasians are not your problem. It is Liberals. And most Ashkenazi are Liberals.

            As I have told others here, high IQ;s and education are not the complete picture. There are also virtues like morality, ethics, hard work, persistence, risk taking, compassion, common sense and logic that play a tremendous role.

            Maybe you can convince other Asians that voting Liberals into office will begat these types of unfair practices. Asians vote Liberal in far greater percentages than Whites. No need to reply, let’s move on.

  • Jeff

    Not that I care, but….

    Race preferences in med school admission are disastrous for the students who “benefit” from the policy. They are likely to flunk out or be unable to pass their boards. This leaves them with all the debts of a real doctor, without being able to earn money like a real doctor. Even real doctors struggle under student debt. Try having $200k or more in debt and no clear career options. How do employers look at 30 year old med school flunkies? What kind of job can Jamal get after years of almost-failing the easiest science classes, and then finally failing to get into a residency or pass a board? Who’s going to hire that guy?

    But the debt… the debt is forever. It’s student loan debt so it never expires and can’t be washed in bankruptcy.

    • The pavement apes don’t like to pay bills. Jamal’s debt will likely get paid by taxpayers,

    • GeneticsareDestiny

      Obama will hire him, don’t worry. Expect to see some loan forgiveness for “underrepresented minorities” coming soon as well.

  • PesachPatriot

    Maybe this is how Dr. Dre acquired his medical education…I avoid doctors and the pharmaceutical snake oil salesman like the plague. One of the biggest problems in our society is the idea that every unpleasant feeling and ache or pain has to be drugged immediately instead of actually being dealt with. One of my favorite sayings is that there are more old drunks than old doctors.

  • Not only did my med school admit blacks that clearly did not deserve to be there, they also had a program set up strictly for them. Come to find out they had been meeting for 6 months as a “pre-program” to help them get started and better fit in to the program. It did not work, they struggled and slid by. Meanwhile my best friend did not get accepted to this program, despite her flawless academic record.

  • Not only did my med school admit blacks that clearly did not deserve to be there, they also had a program set up strictly for them. Come to find out they had been meeting for 6 months as a “pre-program” to help them get started and better fit in to the program. It did not work, they struggled and slid by. Meanwhile my best friend did not get accepted to this program, despite her flawless academic record.

  • Bon, From the Land of Babble

    Too bad these unqualified black AA admitees DON’T drop out before they are unleashed into the world with their phony medical degrees to maim and kill their medical patients.

    Anyone here remember Patrick Chavis, Jan West, Kermit Gosnell and Conrad Murray??

    Patrick Chavis is the poster child for lowered standards, affirmative action and preferential treatment. He’s the one that trumped Baake via AA in medical school. He killed a patient.

    Allan Bakke’s 1973 scores:

    3.46 96th percentile 94th percentile 97th percentile 72nd percentile

    Average “diversity” student’s scores:

    2.88 46th percentile 24th percentile 35th percentile 33rd percentile

    Jan West is the incompetent drunk that killed Kanye West’s mother. He had quite a few malpractice suits against him. Gosnell sometimes performed later term abortions. He would deliver a live baby and kill it. He killed a woman too.

    Michelle Malkin writes:

    Chavis was murdered on the night of July 23 in Hawthorne, an economically depressed neighborhood on the southern edge of Los Angeles. Three unknown assailants shot him during an alleged robbery at a Foster’s Freeze.

    Chavis … was profiled lavishly by New York Times magazine writer Nicholas Lemann. Chavis, who made the cover of the magazine, was a black physician admitted to the University of California-Davis medical school under a special racial-preference quota. In 1978, the U.S. Supreme Court later struck down the program after a landmark challenge by white applicant Allan Bakke.

    What The New York Times never got around to reporting … is that the ‘difference’ Chavis made in the lives of several young black women involved gruesome pain — and death — as a result of botched “body sculpting” [liposuction] operations at his clinic.

    An administrative law judge found Chavis guilty of gross negligence and incompetence in the treatment of three patients. Yolanda Mukhalian lost 70 percent of her blood after Chavis hid her in his home for 40 hours following a bungled liposuction; she miraculously survived. The other survivor, Valerie Lawrence, also experienced severe bleeding following the surgery; after Lawrence’s sister took her to a hospital emergency room, Chavis barged in and discharged his suffering patient — still hooked up to her IV and catheter — and also stashed her in his home.

    Tammaria Cotton bled to death and suffered full cardiac arrest after Chavis performed fly-by-night liposuction on her and then disappeared.

    In 1997, the Medical Board of California suspended Chavis’ license, warning of his “inability to perform some of the most basic duties required of a physician.” In a statement filed by a psychiatrist, the state demonstrated Chavis’ “poor impulse control and insensitivity to patients’ pain.

    More proof that AA is not only inherently unfair but that it kills.

    But, don’t expect the NY Times EVER to report THAT.


  • Epiminondas

    I can’t wait for affirmative action in airline pilot training. That should be exciting news

  • josh

    Recently I overheard a conversation at my PT workplace,where I interact with a lot of young -mainly minority,esp Latino–people. (And btw most of them are great kids. )A young white guy who thru a stepgrandaddy acquired himself a Spanish last name,was being teased by the Mexican kids,who told him with that name,Dude,you can get all kind sof scholarships and benefits,etc. They know the score!

  • Frank


    • olu

      “Surpeised”? LOL good one now keep on making fun of other people’s education level(s)

  • Canis Lupus

    This is the reason I prefer a white man as a doctor. If they were able to graduate, they did it in spite of AA and being able to maintain good grades. No free rides for them.

  • olu

    “a review of minority students (black, Latino, and Native American)…”

    And why exactly were Asian-Americans not included and/or considered minorities? It’s not like they don’t apply to medical schools.

    Of course the results would have shown that As-Ams need to get higher scores even than whites for med school just like undergrad, but an article about that wouldn’t have “sold” as well in the U.S.

  • Oliver Lu

    So many people here seem not to realize that:

    1) legacy admissions are also a form of affirmative action, one which primarily benefits upper-middle whites, and

    2) whites (along with Ashkenazic Jews) are the creators and enforcers of affirmative action (MLK for example favored segregated schools), thus asserting that “whites won’t take it forever” (or something along those lines) is nonsensical, whites are doing it to themselves, if anything it’s a class war of upper middle-class whites against lower class whites but the latter are so brainwashed by corporatocratic norms that they can’t see it as such.

  • Hey you buddy

    you know this isn’t that new of a thing…. even without Obama in office African Americans/ minorites have been able to get into med schools way easier that white people. So taking the fact that these people are the minority who do you think is letting this happen. Even if you took all the African Americans voting for this to happen we are still over shadowed by the majority. Less are even applying for med school each year because they are not interested in the medical field as well. So why are you mad about things that minorities don’t even control?

  • Triarius

    Nice necro troll, but facts and statistics agree with me. From now on, only go to black doctors.

    Btw, there have been plenty of articles on here about professors, even in med school, getting in trouble for not passing “x” amount of minority students in their classes. There are even university professors on this board that will tell you that.