Crimethink and Thinking Ability

Steve Sailer, Takimag, January 30, 2012

What’s the latest from the scientific frontlines in the IQ Wars?

As you’ll recall from the press, the Bad Guys are social scientists such as Arthur Jensen, Linda Gottfredson, Charles Murray, and the late Richard Herrnstein. They have all argued that there are differences in average intelligence among races and other politically fraught groups which impact their overall real-world performance.{snip}

In a word: crimethink!


In interesting contrast to the IQ Realist school is the IQ Ameliorist school. Seven prominent members, including Richard E. Nisbett and James Flynn, have coauthored a lengthy new paper in American Psychologist called Intelligence: New Findings and Theoretical Developments. It is a useful Greatest Hits collection of all research published since 1994’s The Bell Curve that could suggest the problems posed by current IQ inequality might not be as permanent as the Realists imply.

Yet the Ameliorists themselves are crimethinkers. Being experts, the seven Ameliorists are closer to the Realists than they are to the conventional wisdom that IQ is discredited, biased, or meaningless: “The measurement of intelligence is one of psychology’s greatest achievements.…”


Even more courageously, the seven Ameliorists note that IQ tests are valuable because they quantify that most career-threatening of hot buttons in American intellectual life—racial differences in intelligence—which they find both sizable and socially significant:

IQ is also important because some group differences are large and predictive of performance in many domains. Much evidence indicates that it would be difficult to overcome racial disadvantage if IQ differences could not be ameliorated.

Much of the Realist-Ameliorist debate is over whether today’s IQ gaps will prove somewhat intractable or somewhat tractable.\


The coauthors theorize that the current highest-IQ groups will eventually reach a genetic limit to their intelligence, allowing trailing groups to catch up. This sounds reasonable, but they’ve found surprisingly little evidence for it yet.

In the 40 years I’ve followed testing stats, the biggest change in American racial rankings has been that the cognitively rich have gotten richer: Asians are pulling away from whites on high-stakes tests. {snip}


{snip} If somebody invented a magic bullet tomorrow that would somehow eliminate racial IQ disparities among all babies born from now on, measurable (though diminishing) gaps in the total population would still exist until everybody alive today is dead in the 22nd century.

And as this paper makes clear without quite emphasizing it, we don’t appear close to a magic bullet. Americans need to understand that racial gaps in IQ and their manifold implications will be around for at least decades to come.

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  • Anonymous

    heres an article white boy attacked by black mob in philly comments are kind of funny

  • The coauthors theorize that the current highest-IQ groups will
    eventually reach a genetic limit to their intelligence, allowing
    trailing groups to catch up.

    How does one “reach a genetic limit to one’s intelligence” in the collective?  The only ways average group IQ can really increased is either by forced eugenics or some similar voluntary scheme.

    • Anonymous

      There is a correlation between IQ and brain size. In the past a significant minority of white and Oriental women died in childbirth because their birth canals were not large enough for the heads of their large brained babies. 
      As the human species continues to evolve, and human intelligence continues to grow there may come a time when natural childbirth is impossible. 

      • Anonymous

        I always wondered why black woman seemed to be able to drop babies like nothing at all.  Because their kids have smaller heads?  or because they have bigger hips?  or both?  They do seem to get out and about much quicker than white woman.  I don’t personally know many Orientals to speak to that.

      • Anonymous

        Evolution only occurs if there is differential reproduction — i.e., for larger heads in babies to evolve, more people with giant heads would need to breed.  In America, just the opposite is happening.  High IQ people (with large heads) have fewer children, and have them much later in life. 

        Whoever breeds the fastest wins in evolution.

        By the way, if you visit a preschool in China, you will be struck by the giant heads of the children.  They look like they should fall down from being top-heavy!   Compare that with the tiny heads of African children, and in fact, Africans of all ages. 

        • Anonymous

          The superior average intelligence of the Chinese can be attributed to the imperial exam system. For two thousand years young men who could pass the examinations became members of the Scholar Gentry. These were civil servants to the government. As members of the Scholar Gentry they had wealth, power, and prestige that was superior to that of merchants and landlords. They were expected to have several wives and many children that they were able to provide well for.
          While this was happening, in the New World and in Sub Saharan Africa, among American Indians and Negroes men who were the best hunters and warriors had the most wives. Consequently, the best killers had the most children. This can explain the high rates of violent crime, especially murder, among Negroes and Hispanics living in the United States. Hispanics have a lower crime rate than American Negroes because they have a higher percentage of European ancestry. 
          To a considerable extent racial differences in intelligence and crime can be explained by the number of generations separating contemporary members of the races from their ancestors living a paleolithic existence. Although it is true that agriculture and civilization developed somewhat later in what is now China than in the Near East, it is also true that the Orient never experienced something equivalent to the Dark Ages that descended over Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire. 
          When the brilliant sons of peasants who entered the Scholar Gentry in China were having large numbers of children, the brilliant sons of peasants in much of Europe were entering the Roman Catholic priesthood, where they were expected to have no children at all. 

  • crystal evans

    The Asian racial category can be misleading. It includes successful East Asians such as Korean, Japanese and Chinese  and South Asians such as Indians and Pakistanis but it also includes newer immigrant groups such as the Hmong and the Cambodians who do not do as well on standardized tests as other Asians.

    • Anonymous

      Indians and Pakistanis overall are much less intelligent than whites.  If they happen to do better than whites in America then it is only because there is a select group of them immigrating here.  It is ridiculous to be lumping them in with the Japanese and such.

      • crystal evans

        South Asians, which include Indians and Pakistanis are the most successful minority group in the US. The majority of IT companies in Silicon Valley are started by Indians.

        • Which is why they got Reagan to categorize them as minorities so they could get cheap SBA loans? If they were so smart, why would they need them?

        • Anonymous

          You obviously didn’t read my post.

  • Anonymous

    In the 40 years I’ve followed testing stats, the biggest change in American racial rankings has been that the cognitively rich have gotten richer: Asians are pulling away from whites on high-stakes tests.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
    Steve Sailer, Takimag, January 30, 2012                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Improving the quality of education is not likely to bridge the race gap. It will benefit Orientals more than whites, whites more than Hispanics, and Hispanics more than blacks. This is because those with the most potential will improve the most.                                                                                                

  • Asians are pulling away from whites on high stakes tests …

    Probably because they’re requiring their children not to tolerate the propaganda being shoved up the government-school enema tube. And to do their homework instead of playing sports. I doubt that many Chinese, Koreans, etc. truly believe that Martin Looter King to be a saint. That slavery should be viewed in context with the time of its acceptance, and that a drive through the inner cities of America can be all the proof one needs that multiculturalism is a farce.

    • crystal evans

      Remember the Tiger Mother. Her kids did not have any sleepovers or play computer games or watch tv. They were expected to be the best in school and play a musical instrument. Her oldest daughter was admitted to Harvard.

    • I guess John Chinaman doesn’t know that Asians love to game the system.

      • Anonymous

        Did you read that article yourself? What I got out of it is that Orientals work harder than whites. If I am mistaken, please present the argument of the article in your own words. If you cannot do that I will continue to suspect that you did not understand the article yourself. 

      • You sound like a stupid  Honkie m.f.

      • You sound like an ignorant  Ho—kie  m.f.

      • You sound like a stupid  HONKIE  m,f.

      • Guest

         It’s amusing how Sailer doesn’t seem to realize that AP Psychology and AP Art History aren’t nearly as hard as a senior year of AP Physics, AP Calculus BC, AP Chemistry which just about every East Asian takes. You will see what you want to see.

      • Give me the reason why you don’t remove the derogatory word” Chinaman” from this comment.  I have problem with your policy

  • Anonymous

    “In the 40 years I’ve followed testing stats, the biggest change in American racial rankings has been that the cognitively rich have gotten richer: Asians are pulling away from whites on high-stakes tests. ”

    What is this supposed to mean?  And why do we make such a huge deal out of it?  Asians have proven unable to invent at the level of whites.  Not only that, but they don’t belong here.

    The white man gets degraded in and out every day by our media and the media in just about every nation on earth it seems.  I am starting to get sick and tired of it when it was white men who created the modern world. 

    Please spare me the constant applauding of Asians that I see on these websites.  It is sad and ridiculous.

    • crystal evans

      As a Japanese American, I can tell you that Asian Americans study very hard, do not play video games and watch tv like their counterparts do. They also take SAT and ACT prep courses that are paid for by their parents. Their parents are willing to anything to help their child get into UC Berkeley or UCLA. UC Berkeley has an Asian quota so that many qualified Asian students are turned away and end up at other UC schools such as UC Irvine or UC Santa Cruz. How many parents of other races are willing to do the same.

      • Anonymous

        I am not sure where you live Crystal, but  here in Silicon Valley there are plenty of Asian gamers.  This is really neither here nor there, but claiming that there are no Asian gamers is just odd.

        Sure, Asian students can be bright, but I do not think they are, as a group, brighter or more creative than Whites.  Also Chinese and Indian students are major cheaters — MOST of those I went to school with were (high school – post grad).  Whites (and Japanese) cheat far less.

    • Before the Industrial Revolution, Europeans were basically copycats .  From  the collapse of the Roman Empire to the middle of the 18th century, there were very few 100% genuine original  European inventions or innovations.  A lot of so called European inventions were copies and imitations of  other civilizations’ inventions and ideas. During this time period, China invented such things as compass, printing(including movable type– about 400 years Gutenberg), not only gunpowder but also cannon, gun,rocket. bomb, land and sea mines, and many other things.  All these Chinese inventions greately influenced Europe. Can you imagine the modern military without all these Chinese inventions?  But since the 19th century Europeans and Americans have dominated in all kinds of inventions and innovations, But things will change again in this century.  A lot of inventions and innovations will come out of China again in the  next 30 years. It is very clear America and Europe are going downhill very rapidly. By 2060, hispanics and blacks will be a majority in America.  Europe’s native population is declining very fast, on the other hand, Moslem population in Europe  is increasing very rapidly.As you know, all these people( hispanics,blacks, moslems) are low iq people.  The whites in both America and Europe are doomed.  They are commiting self-genocide.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with much of what you wrote. However, it was the Renaissance when Europeans began to surpass the Asian world. 
        I also doubt that “The whites in both America and Europe are doomed.” Already we are becoming less willing to support the illegitimate children of third world women with AFDC payments. We are placing more third world men into prison where they cannot reproduce. 

        • I have a lot of respect for you, because you are only person who  is fair-minded in this site.  Europe overtook China in science and math in the 17th century but China was still ahead of Europe in technology in general until the end of the 18th century. There was  disconnect between the European science and technology until the middle of the Industrial Revolution, because  the progress in European  science was very minimal therefore all the technological advances were still made by craftsmen and technicians not by scientists. According to Adam Smith, the famous British economist  who wrote  The Wealth of Nations  in 1776 said China was ahead of Europe in technology richer than any part of Europe.  But  Industrial Revolution was the biggest turning point for Europe vis a vis China. Starting in the 19th century Europe and America pulled ahead and  never looked back and the rest is history.  But we are reaching another turning point in this century in which there will be  again the ascendency of China in science and technology. I have a lot of respect for the Euro whites  who contributed tremendously to the advancement of science and technology in the 19th and 20th centuries for the benifit of the whole human race .    I hope you are right about the future of the white people. Stop this racial sucide against yourselves.

          • Anonymous

            Thank you for the kind words. Nevertheless, I disagree that I am “the only person who is fair minded on this site.”  

      • And I thought the Afrocentrist crappola was bad.

        • Man, I just don’t gjve a damn about the Afrocentrist ‘crappola”.

        • I really don’t care about the Afrocentric ‘crappola’. You got that?

        •  I thought you loved everything that had to do with Africa.   I guess I was wrong.   LMHO!!!!

      • Anonymous

        I guess this is why every book on the history of science attributes most achievements within its pages to Europe.  How could that be if Europe “copied most of everything from others”.? What do you mean by that exactly?  Gunpowder, the wheel, writing, and agriculture don’t equate to “most of everything Europe invented”.

        • The ancient Greek civilization was not one of the original civilizations.  as a matter of fact, it was an offshoot of the Egyptian civilization.  The  Greeks were the biggest copycats in the ancient world. They  copied  Egyptian and Babylonian  astronomy, math, medicine, wholesale. They even copied their alphabet from non-European  semitic Pheonicians  and also  the Greek geometry was heavily influenced by  Babylonians.   The Romans even got rid of their own religions and replaced them with Christianity which was an offshoot of Judaism of Jews who were also non-European semitic people  from Palestine. As you can see there is nothing original about the ancient European civilization.   In the Middle ages  Europe was  far behind Chinese and Islamic civilizations.  Renaissance and  Scientific revolution were greately influenced by the Islamic civilization.  The modern scientific method which was fundemental to the modern science was born in the 11th century in the Islamic civilizations and the Islamic scientific knowledge  influenced  greately such European scientists as Roger Bacon.Kepler, Copernicus and Newton.   Also  such Chinese inventions as paper, printing, compass, not only gunpowder but also cannon, gun, rocket, bomb, land and sea mines and many more  had a  great influence on the   Renaissance , Reformation,European developement of  gunpowder weapons,European  overseas expansion   before the Industrial Revolution.  But the game changer for Europe was the Industrial Revolution.  Since the 19th centry Europe and America have  made a lot of ground-breaking inventions.  But things will change  in this century again.   You will see a lot of innovations and inventions  coming  out of China again in the next 30 years.

          • Anonymous

            You didn’t read my post.  Once again, I repeat, how come every book on the history of science, technology and math misses all of this?  Not only that, but if we are only to use history books, (not just history of science books), most of your above claims are bogus.  The Greeks learned from earlier civilizations but then they created so much more on their own.  Islam learned from Greece but did very little with it.  Your list of Chinese inventions seems to have come out of a select few liberal anti white history books.  Most respectable books don’t recognize half that stuff as coming from China.

            All of this begs the obvious question: If those other parts of the world were ahead of Europe up until the Industrial Revolution, then why didn’t they , instead of Europe create the Industrial Revolution let alone the modern world? Why is the Muslim world so backwards today if you wish to claim that they taught us all of our science? Why were the Japanese so ill prepared to fight Perry and his army when they supposedly had all those previous centuries of being in contact with “advanced” Chinese weaponry?

        • You should read Science and Civilization in China by Joseph Needham, The Genius of China by Robert Temple, The Eastern Origins of Western Civilization by John Hobson. These are very respected white scholars.   The Arabs in the Middle Ages, debunked many of unscientific  Greek theories. Ibn al Hytham in the , the father of modern optics in the 11th century disproved that  Aristotle’s intromission theory which claimed  a person could see  an object because it emits a line of particles to the eye. and Euclid and Ptolemy’s unscientific emission  theory that a person could see an object because light emits from the eye to the object.  You should remember also the ancient Greeks copied astronomy and math from the ancestors of the Arabs—–the Babylonians.   The last 200 years of the Western domination is an abberation in the long runing history of the world. Things are changing in this century again.   Look at the way things are going in Europe and America.   Europe is on the verge of financial collapse and losing it’s population and it’s Moslem population is gaining rapidly. How about America?  it has a very severe housing crisis, the economy hardly grows and it is broke and owes more than  1 trillion dollars to China. and  by 2060 hispanics and blacks will be a majority in A merica. So you tell me this is a good sign for Euro-whites.    The end of the Euro whites’ domination of the world is fast approaching.

          • Anonymous

            You really have an odd way of looking at things.  And once again, you haven’t addressed the same point I keep bringing up: why does every book on the history of science attribute over 75% of achievements to Europeans?  Are they just making this up?  Listing certain historians who are partial to China doesn’t mean anything.  Why is it always Needham that has to be brought up over and over again?  Read “Human Accomplishment” by Charles Murray.  Murray takes Needham seriously yet still manages to prove that Europeans are responsible for most of history’s achievements.  It is impossible to argue against that with factual evidence.  Then you tell me about all the immigrants coming to white countries.  Why should they come to our countries?  Why do they need to if they are the people YOU claim we copied all our science from?

        • I think you have a problem with reading comprehension.  I have said over and over  in my posts  Euro-whites made a lot of contributions in science and technology since the 19th century.  But things will change in this century.  We will see a lot of inventions and innovations coming out of China again in the next 30 years.  The way things are happening  right now in America, Europe, China,there is a good chance that China will dominate science and technology from this century on.  The show is not over yet. It  has just begun.   We still have 10,000 years to go.   Let me ask you this. If  the American whites are so smart , then why do they allow hispanics and blacks to become a majority in about 50 years?  If white people are so smart, why did you people elect a mediocore  black guy as the president? Obama couldn’t have been elected without white peoples’ votes.  If white people are so smart, then why do they commit genocide against themselves in both America and Europe? 

          • Anonymous

            You are impossible and not fit to participate in adult debate.  You accuse me of lacking reading comprehension and then the example you give to back up your accusation isn’t even legitimate.  Yes, of course you have said over and over again that it has only been after the 19th century that Europe got ahead.  That is what I am disagreeing with you on.

            I think YOU lack reading comprehension.  I keep pointing out to you that what China did before the 19th century was miniscule compared to what Europeans have done ever since Greece.

            As for your claim that the sources I used may be biased, why is it that it is Western authors instead of Chinese ones, who have to dig up all this “great” history in other cultures? How come these other cultures didn’t already know about it?  And Western sources DO give other cultures the credit they deserve……they just don’t lie and try to say that all these other cultures contributed equally to the West. 

            I gave you an example of an author (Charles Murray) who was admittedly pro-Asian, but after he did all of his research (even using Needham and Chinese historical accounts as sources) he still ended up finding out that 75 to 90% of human achievements in science, math, and technology came out of the West.  I guess when I wrote that you conveniently ignored it.

            Once again, where are all these Chinese scientific accomplishments that none of us seem to know about?  List them for me.  How are they equal in number to all the science of the Greeks, Byzantines, Renaissance Europeans, Enlightenment Europeans…..etc…..??????  

            And you seem to contradict yourself.  You admit that Europe accomplished something of value after the 19th century but then you claim white people are stupid just because we invite all these immigrants in.  I can turn the question back around on you (I asked it once before)…..if Europeans are so stupid then why does everyone immigrate to our countries?  Why do the Chinese and Koreans come study in our universities?  Seems they would already have enough ancient knowledge in their countries, since according to you they practically came close to creating the modern world until we stole the torch at the last minute and some how magically got ahead by copying them.

            You seem to be liberal in how you wish to degrade Europe’s accomplishments but then at the same time you seem to view it as negative that all these immigrants from the Third World are flooding our shores.  You are a person of interesting contradictions.

            The reason white people let immigrants in is because of our concerns for the poor of the world.  We are the only people who have become so advanced and rich that we are able to do this.  It comes from the same gene white people have that makes us so inventive.  It hurts us as well as helps us.

        • They are not posting my reply to you.

        • They are not posting my reply to you.

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        • They are not  posting my reply to you.

        • They are not posting my reply to you.

        • They are not posting my reply to you.

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        • They are not posting my reply to you.

        • They are not  posting   my reply to you.

    • Anonymous

      Courtney from Alabama,  
      “The constant applauding of Asians that” you see on these websites is merited. Race realism requires a realistic appraisal of racial differences. 

      • Anonymous

        A complete fabrication of what I said.  I agree that they score higher on IQ tests, but how is this relevant when it is well documented that most achievements throughout history came from whites?

        • Anonymous

          It is relevant because it explains and justifies the high percentage of Orientals at the best universities. They are not there because they cheat or game the system. They are there because they deserve to be. 

    • Bardon Kaldian

      This is an old debate here. I can only reiterate- Asians are, mainly- not exclusively- copycats. In physics, mathematics, chemistry, biomedical sciences, electrical engineering… let alone philosophy, psychology, linguistics, history or arts.

      Of course, there are a few exceptions (Tsung Dao Lee, Chandrasekhar,.. ), but they only prove the point.


      Wolf prize

      Fields medal

  • Prove it.

    • He’s not your errand boy. If you think he’s wrong, YOU prove it.

      • Anonymous

        People have an obligation to document their assertions. I am unaware of any evidence that Orientals stop learning after the age of 23. They certainly do not stop achieving after that age.
        Having said that I love to prove that someone else’s argument is based on an assertion that is not true. 
        Nevertheless, it is sometimes difficult to disprove an absurdity. How would you disprove an assertion that there is an invisible weightless elf sitting on the top of the Washington Monument?

      • Then YOU, Be his errand boy, PROVE IT.

      • Boy, then You be his errand boy,  YOU PROVE IT.

      • Then,  YOU  prove it.

      • Then you prove it.

  • What are the people posting today drinking? First someone expresses her love for Pakis and now you think these Stone Age cretins are an asset to America?

  • Anonymous

    “I always hear how smart the Asians are”. You mean North East Asians. That’s Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Other Asians are stupid, except the Vietnamese who are a cross between North East Asian and South East Asian.
    “and though they test better” – Yes they do, because they’re smarter. The tests aren’t rigged. It’s not a lot better though, just a bit better. Not even close to the difference between Europe and Africa.
    “where is their space program” – in China, Japan, and Korea.
    “why didn’t they master flight first” – because the white people who mastered flight first looked silly and were ridiculed for being strange. Asian’s have genetic differences in personality that stop them from wanting to be different like that. They could have done it if they had white people’s personalities.
    “why did we get the bomb first” – we didn’t! They invented bombs! But I assume you mean the Atomic Bomb. That’s partly because of the genetic differences in personality that I mentioned. And partly because we had a lot of help from Ashkenazi Jews who are as much smarter than Asians as Asians are smarter than us.
    “who is responsible for most of the cures for most of the diseases?” – White people. Asians value conformity to tradition, and they also couldn’t bring themselves to desecrate bodies by cutting them up. That’s why their medical knowledge was poorer.

    “I’m sorry I can’t buy their superiority in intelligence.” It’s not for sale. It’s a scientific fact, how you feel about it is irrelevant. But the reason you can’t see it is because your intelligence isn’t as high as the scientists who researched this.

    White people are braver, better looking, more manly for men and more womanly for women, more outgoing, more tolerant, more appreciative of people who change things for the better, and more generous to outsiders than any other race. But you can’t expect white people to be the best at absolutely everything, even though they come close.

    And never forget that it isn’t about who is objectively better. It’s about who is subjectively better. White people like being white, and like being around other white people with similar intellect and personalities. And that’s why white people should be free to live around white people if they want.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t agree with your response to him entirely.  White people have proven to be much more innovative than Asians.  Their higher IQ is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.  Not sure what you mean when you say they invented bombs….but, oh well.

  • Pandemonium

    I think that creativity is a big part of intelligence. 

  • Anonymous

    I admire Orientals for reasons stated by Jared Taylor and Professor J. Philippe Rushton:  they have high IQs; they have low rates of crime and illegitimacy. What’s not to like about them?

  • All I’m reading here is a distorted & one-dimensional view on human condition and potentials. East Asians have IQ a few points bigger than European Whites . If so- who cares ? Richard Feynman, one of 15, say,  greatest scientists of the 20th century, had the IQ measured to be 125. Above the average, but nothing spectacular.

    What matters most is the combination of intellect, imagination, patience, will, work, abstract thought invariably mixed with complexities of a language (Greek culture couldn’t have been possible without nuances of the Ancient Greek language).

    Is it really necessary to start analyses of all human fields & see particular accomplishments ?
    I can do it, but it’s boring. Better go to, register & download Murray’s “The Human Accomplishment”.

  • Anonymous

    heres a news story.
    news story……is it really NEWS to see yet another white apologizing
    to blacks or mexicans????   sad, just weak and sad self hating pitiful
    spineless cowardly whites are all i see. i disown you people

  • Dewey

    Hi, I appreciate your perspective on the Hmongs. 

    Anon said: “They scam the system and use the Mental Health system to get their SSI/SSA..(I know, I used to work there)…They also scam the SSA/Welfare system. “I also read the linked articles to Hmong polygamy and sexual deviancy at VDARE.  The experiences you all have that make you more against the Hmong people are different than mine.  Every people has imperfections, which can stack up against the good parts.So they have a terrible gang problem.They run child marriage and prostitution rings.They take advantage of government programs by scam. etc.When one is teaching in the public schools, one is not aware of these things.  All you know, is that they are multiple times better than the blacks.   All the gang problems they have may come from having to live amongst Blacks, and defend their own.  Inevitably, with these defensive gangs, they start to involve themselves in criminal activities as well.  Remember how the Italians also fought the blacks, until the Italians finally got out (were defanged by other whites).    In Milwaukee, the Hmongs, good Mexicans, and scattered whites are the ONLY ones who listen to their teachers and do their homework.  It is all about comparison.  Yes, the Hmongs have their problems.  But look at where they live:IN THE HOOD, amongst the most violent, repulsive blacks. doubt many whites could even hold their own there.  You would have to be as violent as the Italian, Irish or Polish gangs which held out against the nonwhites until the 1970’s.  Yes they take advantage of social services, designed for unintelligent black minds.  Yes they have problems with traditional, earlier marriage.  But for the most part, they at least have a stable family structure compared to blacks.  So, yes, I think the gang problems they bring are bad.  Just take a look at this map though, and realize they MUST be in gangs, even with all the problems that brings.  

  • mel·io·rism  –
    the doctrine that the world tends to become better or may be made better by human effort.

  • Anonymous

    I am getting really tired of all these attempts to come up with excuses as to why whites surpassed everyone else.  First someone will say that Asians created more than whites, but then when that theory gets shot down , the next person says “white people created more because of Jews”.  When does it end?

  • Anonymous

    That is a very narrow way to put it.  Having high intelligence could also mean you have an odd way of always thinking about the “man at the bottom and how he feels”.  Notice how this way has gotten whites in trouble but it has also put us very far ahead of the Asians in other areas (thinking outside the box etc…..).

  • You are spewing out  a lot of  Euro and Christian-centric garbage.  You should remember that  the East Asian culture is lot older than the European or American cultures.  The East Asians, specially Chinese have been very creattive and innovative.  They just had bad 200 years,  In this century they will dominate again. By the way,where did you get this ridiculous idea that South Korea is a Christian country? Only about 28% of the South Korean population is Christian. Read my post carefully and learn more about the contributions China has made to the developement of Europe before the Industrial  Revolution and do not preach your worn-out laughable Euro and Christian-centric b.s.

  • Do I need to write a short encyclopedia here ?

    1. Whites- no Asians- created most of the “world” as we know it.
    2. Jews were overrepresented in White European endeavor, but it could very well be done without them.

    Part one- Greeks & Romans

    * Homer. Virgil. Booth pre-eminent epics. Apart from them, you got 2 Indian epics (Mahabharata & Ramayana) & possibly Persian Shanameh, ca. 1000 A.D. Plus European Beowulf, Icelandic sagas, Spanish poem on Cid. No Chinese, Japanese, African, Mayan, Arab epics.

    * mathematics. Greek did much, Romans not so much. essentially Greeks (Pythagoras) invented science, a combination of hypotheses & observation, and mathematics especially. Indians have invented zero & decimal notation, and Chinese matrix calculus plus numerical methods in solving higher power equations. But mathematics as a science, a unified field of knowledge- not a patchwork of   solutions- is the Greek achievement. Euclides (one of the most important books in history), Archimedes (he discovered integral calculus which has later been forgotten), Diophantus and equations, conic sections etc etc., Eratosthenes, Apollonius,  Ptolemy.. You got numerous histories & encyclopedias of math at Africa did nothing, Egypt was good only in elementary geometry, and Arabs built on Greek science- they simplified- not discovered- trigonometry., along with Chinese. A brief overview can be read on wiki:

  • They deleted my reply to you for some reason

  • Anonymous

    By John Pomfret
    Washington Post Staff Writer 
    Monday, June 28, 2010    
    SHENZHEN, CHINA — Last year, Zhao Bowen was part of a team that cracked the genetic code of the cucumber. These days, he’s probing the genetic basis for human IQ. Zhao is 17.Centuries after it led the world in technological prowess — think gunpowder, irrigation and the printed word — China has barged back into the ranks of the great powers in science. With the brashness of a teenager, in some cases literally, China’s scientists and inventors are driving a resurgence in potentially world-changing research.  

    • Gunpowder etc. are virtually-myths. Chinese did-along with others- use a form of explosive substance (so what, Greeks had the “Greek fire” which repelled Islamic conquest in the 8th century). Printing press was also something completely provincial. With gunpowder and printing press (which was a primitive type that did not develop further and was abandoned in the China itself)- China was not, even in these times, a technological “leader”.

      Simply, ideogrammatic -non-phonetic- way of writing is not conductive to abstract thought necessary for development  dynamic & expanding civilization.

      One could have a better case for China’s past glory with paper currency, institution of police, city planning & the best sewage system until 1700s. It’s, to use a literary trope, a Promethean dynamism, man-centered but with a touch of transcendence, that all these non-Western civilizations lacked.

      And still lack, and will lack.

  • Anonymous

    On SAT scores on reading Asians are behind whites, but they are catching up quickly. Since 1990 they have been ahead on mathematics, and they are getting further ahead.

  • * drama.  Only universal, global dramatic form begins with Greeks (Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripedes) and their Roman copycats (Seneca). Later it flourished in England ( Kit Marlowe, Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, ..later Congreve, Sheridan, Wilde, Shaw, ..), France (Racine, Corneille, …Jarry, Camus), Spain (Lope de Vega, Calderon),  Norway (Ibsen), Sweden (Strindberg), Germany (Buechner, Hauptmann, Brecht, ..), Russia (Gogol, Chekhov, Gorky,..) etc. Arabs- no drama. Chinese  & Japanese – peculiar dramatic forms like no-theater which are essentially rituals. India- Sakuntala is the best example of something that is perhaps closest to the dramatic form West has invented. Summary- drama is 90% Western.

    * Lyric poetry. Virtually all cultures have it. Just, Western poetry is immensely wider in scope & inventiveness- even if it loses much in translation- in comparison with Arab (Ibn Farid), Persian (Hafiz, Rumi, Omar Hayyam,..), Chinese (Li Po, Du Fu).

    * history writing.Essentially, apart from Western, there are two history schools- Chinese and Arab-Islamic. Indians did not develop proper chronology due to their concept of cosmos, and Africa- even the Egyptian part- is hardly worth mentioning. Ancient Western world gave us Herodotus, Thucydides, Tacitus, Livy, Polybius, Plutarchus, Procopius ..and Christian West-apart from rather imaginative works that could now hardly be considered history – Gibbon, Michelet, Ranke, Mommsen, Parkman,..
    Iranian Rashid-ud-din, working for Mongol Khan & S’sma Ch’ien are virtually only non-Western historians worth reading,

    • Guest

       I highly doubt you’ve read any of the works of the poets you dismiss, perhaps stilted English transliterations. I have read Herodotus, the Ptolemies, etc. Greek historiography may as well be mythology in terms of the way they misrepresent facts – many of these untruths have been adopted into popular media.

  • It seems to me that fundamental differences cannot be reconciled. I’ll give a brief list.

    1. much talk about IQ. A few points average Asians (East Asians, I think) above White average- and this still is a debatable- amount to- nothing. Freedom of spirit, individualism, capability-and passion- for abstract thought- this is what historical great non-Western civilizations (Egypt, Persia, China, India, Islam) did not possess.

    2. low level of historical knowledge. Sorry to say, but most of AmReners are historically illiterate. A few good/great books (Murray, Needham,..) had been mentioned, but deep studies of rise and fall of civilizations & economical & politiocal histories are not what  most AmReners are acquainted with. Without Arnold Toynbee, George Sarton, Fernand Braudel, even Oswald Spengler (more as a provocation), Lewis Mumford, Jacob Burckhardt, Imre Lakatos, David C. Lindberg…- you’re clueless.
    For instance, try this:

    3. as for old times-Greek in ca. 400 yrs (600-200 B.C.) had done everything more than the rest of the world (Mesopotamia, India, China, Egypt, Persia, Americas, ..) in 3,000 yrs- in virtually every field of human endeavor (sciences, technology, arts, warfare, philosophy,..)- except religion.

    4. after a slumber (collapse of Ancient world, plagues, solidification,..) Europe has, from ca. 1500 on, achieved the only global civilization, from alphabet & science discourse to clothing & manners.

    5. and last two remarks:

    a) technology is idolized here. Well, it cannot flourish without free inquisitive spirit & individualism, and, I might add, ethics of -at least partial- transcendence. Printing pres & steam machines are inextricably interwoven with novels & religious-political tracts and debates.

    b) there is – I’ve already said- something Promethean about White European race, that forces her to go to the bottom of the ocean & to the farthest limits of universe. Indians with their caste system & release in transcendent bliss, Chinese with pragmatic ethicism, Muslims with dogmatic religious autism..all lack this.

    • Anonymous

      I agree with you.  “Human Accomplishment” isn’t the only book I have read, as I have stated above.  The people above arguing with me keep chanting the usual pro-East; anti-West garbage that too many whites have been taught to believe even though there is little evidence to back it up.  You and I can sit here and post solid evidence proving that white achievements outnumber those of Asia and it won’t mean one iota to my antagonists.  Their arguments consist of making colorful, meaningless, exaggerations such as “China started the Industrial Revolution two centuries before Europe”  OR   ” China was more advanced than the West up until 1850″.  I never understood what such statements are supposed to mean exactly. For starters, to say that China was more advanced than Greece alone (or Rome) is purely subjective.  But that is just ONE example I give as to why what they say is flawed.  Just goes to show what liberal brainwashing has done to our people.

    • Guest

       “A few points average Asians (East Asians, I think) above White average- and this still is a debatable”

      It’s absolutely not debatable, and it amounts to quite a lot.

      “Freedom of spirit, individualism, capability-and passion- for abstract
      thought- this is what historical great non-Western civilizations (Egypt,
      Persia, China, India, Islam) did not possess.”

      Freedom of spirit and individualism are present in the classical and pre-industrial West if you are only speaking of the upper classes. Otherwise, 25-90% of Europeans were enslaved by other Europeans (or non-Europeans), the Spartans being the extreme example.

      “as for old times-Greek in ca. 400 yrs (600-200 B.C.) had done everything
      more than the rest of the world (Mesopotamia, India, China, Egypt,
      Persia, Americas, ..) in 3,000 yrs- in virtually every field of human
      endeavor (sciences, technology, arts, warfare, philosophy,..)- except

      Given the standard for inferring Greek genius, i.e. one mention in an obscure book or perhaps a single dusty blueprint of ambiguous meaning, this is simply not the case. Aside from Greek fire, gastraphetes are given as examples of the earliest crossbow but no widespread archaeological evidence of its use has ever been found. Meanwhile, in China, ancient crossbows are millions and many of them are still functional. To be advanced in technology means spreading a method far and wide across geographic space. China had that in spades, and far exceeded Greece and all of Europe (and the rest of the world) until the 1800s.

      I’m not convinced by Eurocentric revisionism. Where is the hard evidence?

      • You’re not right.  We all know you wish to Give Credit where Credit is Not Due and I feel for ya.  Were I in your non-white shoes, I’d probably do it too.

        Sad fact is, whatever little “accomplishments” you people have under your belt, they do not, not in the slightest, compare to White Accomplishments.  This is not meant to hurt your feelings.

        Now, to turn it around:  Let’s say that yes, China or, Asians are Better.  Okay.  Then why please, why are they not only Third World still Today but also ONLY up and coming because of American Sacrifice (Money/Jobs) and Foreign Aide?

        I mean, if Asians or, Chinese are so Great, why then, do they need so much help and why, why, why please, do they need to allow a Foreign Company like say, Wal-Mart to come in and take Bloody Advantage of their own People?

      • Anonymous

        We’ve already given you enough evidence.

  • Anonymous

    The most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  I guess that is why white people are the only people in the world letting immigrants from all over the globe into their nations in high numbers?

  • Anonymous

    Wrong?  How many books on the history of science have you actually read?  I have spent hours upon hours in different libraries researching this.  And the majority of books I pull off the shelf all say the same thing. Encyclopedia Britannica would be a good place for you to start, not to mention just about every book on the history of science.

    I mentioned Charles Murray’s book because I was giving an example of an author who proved that over 75% of science came out of Europe even though he was admittedly pro-Asian and even quoted Needham in his book.  I made that clear in my comment above but just like the other poster (and all posters like you), you conveniently ignored that.  Why do you claim what he says is inaccurate?  He provided plenty of evidence, and everything he says follows the same pattern of what most other historians on the topic of science say.

    As for your silly comment about how most history of science authors don’t give a percentage, I was obviously talking about how you the reader are to come up with your own percentages by simply looking at which civilizations the pages in that book spend most of the time covering.  You see the same pattern each time.  There is a tiny section on the early Middle East, a HUGE section on Greece, a tiny section on Islam and China, and then a HUGE section on Europe after the Renaissance.  There is a reason for this. 

    “It wasn’t all of Europe, but England and England alone that began industrializing first. Northern China was beginning proto-industrialization before the Mongols and Jurchens began a centuries-long campaign of genocide that saw the deaths of at least 90 million Chinese civilians (over 50% of the total population) by war, plague and deprivation.”

    I notice that pro-China people such as yourself enjoy making outrageous claims like this all the time but what do you mean by it?  If you are trying to say that China invented trains and steam engines before Europeans, good luck finding evidence on that.  The History Channel once humorously tried to claim that the Chinese invented the car first.  My dad and I laughed when we saw that their reasoning for stating this was simply that the Chinese had a chair on wheels one could sit on that got pushed by the wind.

  • Anonymous

    You seem to enjoy making excuses for why whites have proven to be more innovative than Asians.  That is of course when you aren’t giving Asians credit for white inventions.  Something isn’t adding up.  You can’t have it both ways.

  • Anonymous

    Where does this poster named “Guest” live?  He/she wants us all to think the Europeans are stupid in every way while Asians are brilliant. Either that or that Asians somehow secretly invented everything that whites have been given credit for.  So does he/she practice what they preach by living in an Asian country, or do they live in a white country?  “Guest” can first start by ceasing to use his/her computer.  Nevermind, next “Guest” will try to convince us that the Chinese were the first to invent the computer, even though there is no evidence for it.

  • Anonymous

    You don’t read my posts very clearly at all.  In regards to that paragraph in which I gave a break down of how large each section is on each civilization in a history of  science book , I was refering to what I see in most history of science books.  I wrote that whole paragraph in response to your silly comment about how most authors don’t give percentages.  I obviously wasn’t talking about “Human Accomplishment” since that author actually does give percentages.