Southern Europe: Beyond a Demographic Point of No Return

David Goldman, Seeking Alpha, July 7, 2011


That is true for the moment, when the elder dependent ratio for Southern Europe stands at around 25%. Between 2020 and 2045, however, the infertility of Southern Europe will catch up with it, and the elder dependent ratio will rise to over 60%–an impossible, unmanageable number. At that point the character of these countries will change radically; they will be overwhelmed with immigrants from North Africa as well as sub-Saharan Africa, who will not have the skills or the habits of civil society to maintain economic life. And their economies will slide into a degree of ruin comparable only to that of classical antiquity. Perhaps the Chinese will operate Greece as a theme park. Spain, which can draw on Latin American immigrants, is likely to be the least badly off.

Strictly speaking, Ireland should not be included among the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain). Although post-Catholic Ireland has lost its famous fecundity, Ireland’s fertility rate still hovers around replacement. {snip} The southern Europeans are doomed. They have passed a demographic point of no return. There simply aren’t enough females entering their child-bearing years in those countries to reverse the rapid aging.


Why would anyone buy a 30-year bond from any of these countries? By 2041, there won’t be enough taxpayers left to pay the coupons. {snip} The real demographic crunch will start to hit in the mid-2020s, and it is possible that markets will ignore the inevitable demographic doom until then.

There’s little reason to expect European contagion to blow up the financial system today. But there’s also no reason to invest in those countries, except on a very opportunistic basis.

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45 Responses to “Southern Europe: Beyond a Demographic Point of No Return” Subscribe

  1. Anonymous July 13, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    The same is happening in America and Canada also…As for Ireland I have seen far too many videos on their decline and their love affair with Africans and Muslims. England is already GONE! Even the Queen has come to love “diversity”.

    This is what happens when White nations started allowing nonwhite immigration on a scale that is absolutely, totally insane. Whites will STOP having babies and the reasons are very clear! I HATE to even think about what my grandkids and my middle aged kids are going to have to endure in the very near future. It makes me physically sick and I am sad to say my generation did nothing to stop this insanity! We will be judged one day for allowing our race to become the tail in our own nations.

  2. Anonymous July 13, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    Am I the only one who doesn’t buy the gloom and doom scenario of below-replacement birth rates? I believe that countries such as Italy would have to deal with supporting one or two older generations for the next 25-50 years by relying on extended families whenever possible, which would greatly diminish the remaining taxpayer burden.

    The payoff would be 50 years from now, when the population returned to levels last seen in the early 20th century (or even 19th century). There will be more of everything to go around – witness how Europeans prospered after the Black Plague.

    The only fatal mistake would be to seek to bolster the young population by opening borders to immigrants, who eventually will actually demand entry. If Italy and other such countries can keep themselves relatively “pure”, their future will be fine, even without a replacement birth rate. That’s my opinion.

  3. The Statistics July 13, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    In 2001, 1,320,000 children were born in Russia, while 1,800,000 abortions were performed. And in 2005, 1,600,000 abortions were registered in Russia. Source:

    According to the CIA World Factbook, the total fertility rate of Russia in 2011 is 1.42 children born per woman. If abortion was made illegal, Russia wouldn’t be experiencing population decline.

    I couldn’t find any information about the number of births compared to the number of abortions in the countries of southern Europe. However, I still think that abortion is playing a major role in population decline in the West.

    Perhaps feminists and their beta male enablers should put aside the notion of so-called female reproductive empowerment for the sake of our people’s survival.

    Christian activists are right to call the anti-abortion movement “pro-life,” because the life of our people and civilization will not survive with abortion being legal.

  4. hokie74 July 13, 2011 at 5:45 pm #

    I disagree with Spengler. Lower [and more homogenous] population levels would be good for any post-Industrial society. We shouldn’t try to compete [in a fertility sense] with more fertile elements of humanity that have not yet created a post-Industrial society of their own. Nor should we allow them to invade our living space.

    Technology transfer, Global Policing, Disaster Relief, Green Revolutions etc – these seem only to increase the fertility rate of most Africans, Muslims, and some Hispanics, without granting the recepient culture enough of a true “value” transfer for them to create a functional and non-dependent indigenous post-Industrial state of their own.

    However, Orientals, Jews, Parsi, Hindus [Bahai etc], either already have or are in the process of creating their own post-Industrial societies thanks entirely to Western generousity. In time this will drastically lower the outmigration of people from these cultures to the West.

    Put another way – We either subsidize the creation and education of our future economic competitors [HK,China,India etc]or we send “Aid” to Muslims, Africans and Hispanics that will never compete with us but WILL immigrate to our countries. A large part of our survival as a race may in the future lie in the perception that Muslims,Africans and Hispanics have of the West. In other words, if due to economic and ideological reasons the potential migrants of tomorrow see China or India as “better” than the West then we gain a much needed reprieve.


  5. NBF, 190th! July 13, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    That’s a great take on the problem- watch the bond market for European nations that are submerging themselves under Arab and African hordes.

    But we know what will happen- if you sell, or don’t buy, bonds from formerly maj. White European nations, you are obviously a vile and hateful raciss, and as part of the investigation, your home will be searched and computers seized.

  6. Peejay in Frisco July 13, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    Southern Europe, and the other countries of Europe CAN survive even if their birthrates are way below replacement level ONLY if they completely stop all immigration into their lands. The ones who want more non European immigration into those countries do so because they can make some kind of profits from it.

  7. Justin July 13, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    How hard is it to have just two children? The more the better, but having two kids will at last keep the population stable. Are Latin Europeans so hedonistic they can’t be bothered to procreate twice in their lives?

  8. Anonymous July 13, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    David Goldman is the “Spengler” of Asia Times, and he has never been afraid to tell nasty truths about the world. I’m shocked they let him on Kudlow sometimes.

    Yes, he has something of a bias against bonds and options, and he heavily favors stocks and growth, but he gives a generally fair treatment to everything.

  9. Dutchman July 13, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    A terrible tragedy to see the cradle of Western Civilization become the 3rd World. It saddens me to think that Italians and Greeks would let their heritage be eradicated from history. Someday ignorant Africans will be knocking down the Parthenon and wondering how the mythical giants ever built such things.

  10. McGilicuddy July 13, 2011 at 9:04 pm #

    Portugal, Spain, and Italy have huge reserves of people… in the Americas. With the right incentives, they could easily lure hundreds of thousands of young white couples to their ancient land.

  11. Istvan July 13, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    Southern Europe is only beyond hope because of third-world immigration. A falling population without immigration would probably mean a shortened life expectancy for the very elderly since there wouldn’t be enough young people around to assist them. A lot of older people would pass before become dependent if it weren’t for all the non-family assistance provided by the welfare state. And the young, seeing the elderly around them suffering and lonely would probably decide to have more children. A population can drop pretty low before the point of no return. Now, would a Spain or Italy of 20 million people be able to support an economy built for 40 million? No! Factories and shops would close and fields would lie fallow. Actually the environment would clean things up fairly quickly as people abandon stretches of the countryside. Life might become more pleasant for the remaining population.

    I do agree, however, that an economy built for 40 million Spaniards or Italians can NOT be maintained by 40 million Africans, Arabs or South American Indians. People are not chess pieces. The difference here is that the remaining, smaller European population will not just die younger from lack of elder-care they will die younger from murder and ethnic cleansing by the new owners of Europe. Die at 75 from lack of elder care or die at 15 by the hand of some savage? The governments of Europe have chosen for their people death by murder.

    A good thing English has become Europe’s second language because when all the refugees from southern and western Europe descend on Eastern Europe at least they will have a lingua franca.

  12. TomSwift July 13, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    2) The Black Death did not benefit Europe, and no population reduction has ever benefited humanity so far. It was the capitalistic policies implemented in response to the Black Death that caused Europe to prosper. If Europe had responded to the crisis by say importing immigrants it wouldn’t have benefited. The Black Death also wiped out 40% of the Chinese and Muslims. If population reduction is so beneficial why didn’t these regions prosper? In the short run the Black Death actually hurt Europe’s economy.

    This can be explained by economic theory – higher populations lead to higher technology levels thru specialization and trade. For whites, history has shown that each doubling of the population produces a quadrupling of the amount of wealth.

    Of course I will concede that population can not increase forever so it is possible for population reduction to benefit a people in the future, in particular the amount of arable land used for food is near it’s maximum today, and hence you might be right.

    However having 4 Grandparents for every 1 Grandchild is going to create severe economic problems in the short run.

  13. Oski July 13, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Between 2020 and 2045… the elder dependent ratio will rise to over 60%—an impossible, unmanageable numbers… these countries will change radically; they will be overwhelmed with immigrants from North Africa as well as sub-Saharan Africa

    The invaders from North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa WILL NOT SUPPORT old white people.

    They will be eliminated and Southern Europe will resemble Africa as it spirals into chaos, anarchy, unspeakable violence and tyranny with civilized society never to return.

  14. Anonymous July 13, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Since there is so much glee among a certain group of people, of whites becoming the minority in this country, there should be a breakdown by ethnicity of taxpayers and the amount paid by them. Can these hordes of third world peoples maintain the standard of living in this country in the future? More than likely, no. This country is on the path of becoming a third world country.

  15. LoA July 13, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    Anon. @ 5:08 PM.,

    No, you’re not the only one. I’m on the same page as well.

    I would also add that just because a population falls today doesn’t mean it won’t grow again. Things don’t remain static forever. Europe recovered and then some after the plague, after all ( and WITHOUT immigration from the 3rd world). And just think of how many more people there would be if it hadn’t happened!

    To me, in terms of population density, I don’t think there are too many people in Europe, just too many of the wrong people, aka non-Europeans.

  16. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    THIS IS PURE BOGUS! The problem is not population decline. The problem is race replacement.

    What would be better? An Italy with 40 million people in which EVERYBODY was an ethnic Italian or an Italy with 55 million people in which ethnic Italians were only say, 75% of the total population? I sure know which one I WOULD WANT if I were an Italian.

    As long as the local ethnic population remains intact and undiluted, total population is relatively unimportant. What matters very little is total population. What does matter is WHAT PERCENTAGE of that total population YOU ARE.

    How many AmRen readers would accept an America with a 25% smaller population, (approx 228 million) but in which whites were say, 90-95% of the total popualtion?

  17. Ben July 14, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    I hope Southern Europe finds the strength in such dark times…

    I pray the land of the Gaels…

  18. SKIP July 14, 2011 at 1:56 am #

    The entire civilized world is coming to look like the manifestation of the world in Terry Brooks’ novels titled “Word and the Void” His story depicts “once men” demons and evil that assaults civilized people trying to remain civilized by barricading themselves in cities and as in real life, so is it in his novels in that the “once men” always win in the end since no fortification can, nor ever has stood a determined seige by determined armies. Road Warrior days are coming, be prepared..Weapons and ammo are your friends, get them while you still can.

  19. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 2:49 am #

    Sorry, but this is little bit a propaganda. Check statistics.

    In 2010, France and Iceland had higher # of births per female than Algeria or Tunisia. If Arab hords want to invade Europe they can do it only by depopulating their homelands. If you compare period of 2005-2010 to 2000-2005 you will see that fertility rates have gone up only in many countries in the West. They are still too low but growing and in some cases reached replacement level 2.1 . In the same period births per female are dropping in much of Asian and Arab countries. If those trends continue, in few years population growth will be the same in most of the world. Interesting that last year US had highier fertility rate than Mexico. Low population growth is the trend that only STARTED in the West. Soon this trend will spread across the rest of the world. Plus you can predict NOTHING looking at so called “current trends”. The trends change all the time.

  20. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 2:55 am #

    #4-“In other words, if due to economic and ideological reasons the potential migrants of tomorrow see China or India as “better” than the West then we gain a much needed reprieve.”

    Ha, ha, keep dreaming.. those countries do not and will never have foolish policies of encouraging mass immigration of other third worlders like the West does..

  21. Kenelm Digby July 14, 2011 at 2:55 am #

    The fact is that Spain has over 20% unemployment, with 40% of the young being jobless.

    Likewise Italy has mass unemployment and has so for decades.Across the EU as a whole tens of millions are workless.

    These reports are purely and simply garbage.

  22. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 3:29 am #

    “in other words, if due to economic and ideological reasons the potential migrants of tomorrow see China or India as “better” than the West then we gain a much needed reprieve”.

    You’re dreaming if you think anyone besides whites will take in these people en-mass. It is a good dream, anyway

  23. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 3:46 am #

    the taxes are too high whites are too broke and houses cost too much to have families.

    Here in california a house , a starter hosue, is 600,000 bucks. that means you need a salary of 175,000 a year at least. very few jobs pay that much.

    Of course they still have white babies in knoxville

  24. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 5:17 am #

    A wake up call to the West: Have more children.

    Without children we have no future.

  25. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 7:42 am #

    Southern Europe is doomed, not just because of an aging population, but rather because those regions are inhabited by the most racially mixed European peoples thanks to the Muslim and Turkish invasions which ended only a few hundred years ago. It would be inaccurate to say that those regions are still inhabited by “white europeans”.

    Portugal went into decline after it absorbed its imported Black slaves into its White population–along with its Arab influx. The Greeks of today are not the Greeks who built and ruled over that great ancient civilization–they are now mixed with both Turkish and Arab blood. Same thing with southern Italy and Spain. Much of Albania and Bulgaria experienced similar fates under the Arab conquerors.

    Ireland’s economic problems are not the same–they are still one of the whitest countries in Europe and therefore could recover quickly. The British have kept the Irish in virtual servitude since the times of Oliver Cromwell. Ireland’s poverty was created from without, not from within.

  26. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    #4 hokie74 Lower [and more homogenous] population levels would be good for any post-Industrial society.

    Your strategy doesn’t appear to be working. Nature abhors a vacuum. Below replacement fertility provides negative pressure in favor of immigration. Above replacement fertility provides positive pressure against immigration. It’s as simple as that.

  27. Eduardus July 14, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    It is so painfully obvious that whites are aborting and contracepting ourselves out of existence. Most whites seem to be unable to see the long term consequences of this opting instead for the instant gratification of destroying their offspring. Mohammedans gleefully recognize this, many publicly stating that the wombs of Mohammedan women will be what conquers Europe and the Americas.

  28. A different opinion July 14, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    How about returning to Europe? There are more people of Italian descent outside Italy. There are almost 50mil people of German descent in the USA, around 15-20 mil of British descent in Australia and New Zealand.

    Whites outside Europe should return to Europe in large amounts (they may move to Eastern Europe where vast lands are unsettled) Deport non-whites from Europe and let the South Africa and the states rot in the non-whites hands..

  29. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    #11 and #12 – I was #2, and thanks for letting me know that others feel the same. Your two comments taken together are the perfect rebuttal to this article. The only thing to add is that Europeans will simply have to “tough it out” for a generation or two as they deal with the end of a Ponzi-scheme pension system (just as we’ll soon have to do in the US).

    #24 – the idea of a “return to Europe” has occupied me, but it will only work if non-whites are pushed back out of Europe, and it will then become a solution for American whites, not for Europeans. A few years ago, I would have said that Australia can be the new homeland for whites who want a white nation (assuming none can be carved out of the US) – but it seems that it will soon be overrun by Asians.

  30. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    #15 Rising birthrates in Europe are because of third world immigration having local children, not because the natives give birth to more children. The third worlders will have many children because that is their custom since ancient times and because the state pays them to have many children. That is at least the cause for the continental Euro nations. As for Iceland, I cannot say.

    As for dropping birth rates in the third world, some 3rd world mediterranian nations are now running up against malthusian growth limits. F.ex Egypt can barely feed its own population. This will create widespread poverty which will in itself be a strong incitement for emigration anywhere, where these people will begin the self destructive cycle again by having many children.

    In hindsight, eradicating smallpox was one the the most stupid mistakes ever done by white people.

  31. Bill July 14, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    Anon @2.49am

    “In 2010, France and Iceland had higher # of births per female than Algeria or Tunisia.”

    Iceland with its population of less than 300,000 is statistically worthless. France? Well, there’s some anecdotal evidence that French whites are bucking the trend and having replacement+ numbers of children.

    But if birth rates in France are higher than in Algeria or Tunisia that’s down to the Algerians and Tunisians resident in France. Wake up. France is gone. A tragedy so unspeakable I can’t actually take it in.

  32. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    @ #3 and #27.

    I don’t think abortion is the culprit here. In both the United States and Europe non-white minorities have vastly disproportional high rates of abortion.

    In the Netherlands for example non-Europeans make up less than 15% of the population but make up for more than 65% of abortions.

  33. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    TFR(total fertility rate)-2010

    Algeria 1.76 children per female

    Iran 1.85

    Tunisia 2.00

    Turkey 2.10

    Singapore 1.16 (!)

    China 1.04 (2004-lowest in the World)

    S.Korea 1.22

    N.Korea 1.94

    Sri Lanka 1.96

    Thailand 1.64

    Mexico 1.99

    All have below replacement level 2.1 and all are showing declining trend! Many other Muslim and Asian countries still have above 2.1 but decline trend is so steep they will soon much the above. It’s a world wide trend spreding around the world.

  34. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    “Interesting that last year US had highier fertility rate than Mexico”

    Does that poster think he can believe any stats coming out of Mexico?

    Are you counting the millions of Mexicans born in the USA as Mexican or US? I honestly think you are way off base.

  35. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    For centuries, many nations have relied on immigration to bring in fresh labor. In more recent times, Western governments have developed a Ponzi scheme to support their burgeoning social programs. More immgrants to provide wealth that is then transferred to others. This worked well when there was ample natural resources and a technology cycle to support rapidly growing productivity improvements. However now there is a large influx of lesser educated immigrants in a world that is increasingly reliant of technical skills, and many of those immigrant have little desire to assimilate and contribute. The Ponzi scheme no longer has wealth-producing tax-pay labor to support the tax-users. The system will collapse under its own weight.

  36. anonymous July 14, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    7 — Justin wrote at 7:01 PM on July 13:

    How hard is it to have just two children? The more the better, but having two kids will at last keep the population stable. Are Latin Europeans so hedonistic they can’t be bothered to procreate twice in their lives?


    it isn’t quite that simple Justin………..

    there are those among us who ask, “is it right to bring a child into this world with this much strife, corruption, etc.?”

  37. Anonymous July 14, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    2 — Anonymous wrote at 5:08 PM on July 13

    “The payoff would be 50 years from now, when the population returned to levels last seen in the early 20th century (or even 19th century). There will be more of everything to go around – witness how Europeans prospered after the Black Plague.”

    Not true that Europe prospered after or due to the Black Plague. It recovered, that is all. It in the history books and many of my own known ancestors of noble status had to work their own land because mostly peasants died. It changed economic reality, giving the remaining peasants more bargaining power, but it took 100 years for Europe to recover. Now if a foreign population arrived and began to set down roots, white Europe would have been over with by 1500.

    The situation today is different. If white Europe does not do something drastic, they will be replaced racially, period. I don’t see any other option but forced expulsion. Defeating the EU will be the first task. And it can’t happen later some time, it must happen now, very soon.

  38. ghw July 14, 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    “Am I the only one who doesn’t buy the gloom and doom scenario of below-replacement birth rates?…

    … 50 years from now, when the population returned to levels last seen in the early 20th century (or even 19th century). There will be more of everything to go around – witness how Europeans prospered after the Black Plague.

    The only fatal mistake would be to seek to bolster the young population by opening borders to immigrants.”



    I heartily agree. Populations have always fluctuated, but they have risen again. This latest dip is nothing new. The only new element in the picture is immigration. The ease of modern transportation has changed the equation… plus the newfangled popularity of Marxist cosmopolitanism… seen as trendy by politicians, churchmen, and opportunistic businessmen…as well as those with a simmering hatred of the Majority and a determination to eliminate it.

    I have been re-reading Barbara Tuchman’s “A Distant Miror”, the story of the calamatous 1300’s. Life in the Middle Ages was much worse, much harder than now. Not only did they have the Hundred Year’s War to torment them, but the ravages of the Black Plague as well. Despite whole towns and regions being depopulated, they recovered and produced the Renaissance. The reason why Europe remained Europe was because they did not import immigrants to restock the countryide with cheap and abundant foreign labor to suit the wishes of landlords, rulers, and churchmen who missed the old, cheap, docile peasantry.

    If left alone, Nature has a way of correcting herself.

  39. sbuffalonative July 14, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    If left alone, Nature has a way of correcting herself.

    I try to remain hopeful that things will change and I believe they can.

    While I believe nature has a way of correcting itself and Europe recovered from the Black Death, there is a new ‘black death’ and this one is not of nature but politically driven.

    Europe recovered because it was left alone to recover. There were no local or international agencies to bring in replacement populations. Likewise, there were no social programs to encourage immigration.

    The danger today is not nature, it’s international politics. There are now ‘human rights’ laws, refugee programs, courts denouncing ‘genocide’ at the drop of a hat, and generous social payouts to useless miscreants.

    Europe and the west could recover if left to nature but today, no government is going to let nature run it’s course. That would be a hate crime against non-white mankind .

  40. Strider July 14, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Anonymous (#16) said: How many AmRen readers would accept an America with a 25% smaller population, (approx 228 million) but in which whites were say, 90-95% of the total population?

    Sign me up for that America. In fact, I’ll go even farther and sign up for 1960 America with fewer than 200 million people, at least 90% of whom were white. That America was safe and prosperous. Just don’t bring back the Sunday “blue laws.”

  41. Anonymous July 15, 2011 at 3:31 am #

    ‘ don’t think abortion is the culprit here…

    In the Netherlands for example non-Europeans make up less than 15% of the population but make up for more than 65% of abortions.


    You don’t get specific about groups, but I can hardly imagine any Moslem woman there having an abortion.

    They seek all the children possible, and the state gladly pays for them.

  42. hokie74 July 15, 2011 at 4:32 am #

    In regards to previous comments to the article or my response:

    Many ideas have been expressed on this thread. It’s an integral part of our Western mores that we can debate w/o resorting to personal attacks and instead utilize reason and logic to arrive at a proper conclusion. Thank you to Amren and readers for the intelligent debate. So much more refreshing than “thats Racist” or “the Nazis thought that.”

    I wish I had the time or intellectal abiltity to discuss each point cogently. Instead a few misc. impressions:

    1] There is awareness of these issues that is unprecedented in my lifetime. I’m 39.

    2] It’s free debate w/o the fear of censorship or “blacklists” that leads to true democratic action.

    3] re PIIGS: not an economist. read the zero hedge or seeking alpha blogs[not a plug – best sources I’m aware of]. I’m not qualified to assess the “why” aside from the obvious fact that some of these financial instruments,CDS etc were meant to obfuscate true value.

    4] re India and China: I understand the skepticism as far either being a immigrant destination of choice. My country wouldn’t accept visually non whites until 1965. TK said it wouldn’t change anything. In general [purely my amatuer opinion], the more intelligent non-whites will always be fifty years behind us, the blacks/mestizos/muslims will be roughly 300 years behind us.

    I’ve lived in both countries [NGO- dont ask]. Both are far less hostile to non natives including Africans that is the common perception in the West.

    5] My heritage is Christian. I’m agnostic. I don’t think spirituality has the answers to the questions of our age. I don’t think “violent racism” ie ethnic cleansing does either. I’m not trying to use loaded words, I’m just not up to coming with a more appropriate term at the moment. I don’t equate the natural acknowledgment of human/cultural differences with racism.

    6] We need to find more non-white analogies to whats happening right now to white Americans. The same Biblical/Koranic/whatever myths that made blacks in America identify with the Hebrews can also convey our plight. This is not idealism. It’s [not sure of the correct discipline] anthropology or sociology. If we dismiss the very historical methods that we used to incorporate non – Westerners into our societies [or fail to understand that WE chose that – not the Bantus or Aztecs] then we cannot ever cannot ever hope to cure what WE have brought about.

    6] I believe that we need to get as far outside the box as we can. Imagine as per previous comments: Southern Europe needs its diaspora back to combat the demographic challenges of Islam of Africa. They offer a ten year tax free incentive and immediate citizenship, America offers a one time 100,000[one hundred thousand]incentive to renoounce citizenship BUT only to those who have COLLECTED more in entitlements of any type than they PAID in federal income tax over the course of their lifetime. This incentive only works for non Hispanics.

    Before the cries of Nordicsm: This sets a precedent. This same model can be used in time as economic circumstances permit to return all non-productive non-citizens or undesireables.

    Before the cries of Aryanism: use the internet to find a company that can [no plug – google ancestry dna test etc then pick] analyze your own intimate family [children too – dont want a conflict of interest] DNA before you call for a race war that will utilize technology to determine who is “them” and who is “us”. I’m R2A paternally. I share that with whites as well as non-whites. I understand that we cannot equate one gene with “Race”. Please understand that some people will try to to achieve their own narrow goals.

    7] An America that PAID all sub-120 IQ people to voluntarily deport/neuter/DIAF would be a safer place for all of us. Ran out of space – good luck and god bless.

  43. Mike July 16, 2011 at 7:35 am #

    The financial catastrophe facing much of Europe currently has very little to do with Immigrants. Rather, mismanagement of Zimbabwean proportions must be blamed. Europe is dying, China has effectively taken over the world.

  44. Anonymous July 16, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    #28 ‘How about returning to Europe’

    Well power comes from settling in countries througout the

    world. Whites would only weaken themselves if they just live in Europe.

    In addition to that a Europe with only whites would eventually

    lead to whites infighting with each other. This was so in the past as whites considered other whites to be of another racial group. And it would only be a matter time before non-whites would be allowed to immigrate to an ‘All WHITE’ Europe.

  45. Bardon July 19, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    Overreaction. The future (20-40 yrs) is more likely to be like this: educated whites exposed to various treatments (genetic rejuvenation, hip-and bones- replacement, life-span of 100-120 yrs of vital existence, cyborgization). We’re entering in post-human era, and blacks/muslims/whatever will be as unnecessary as they are now. Chines, Arabs, blacks,.. are being deported, and this process is accelerating. Simply- post-modern society does not require as much human beings, whatever color, as did the industrial and pre-industrial ones. Asians and Africans are not permitted into Europe even now, during the Libya war. They’re on the way back, since various European countries have been pronouncing multiculturalism a dead end.