Couple Convicted of Stealing GM Trade Secrets

Ed White, San Francisco Chronicle, November 30, 2012

A former General Motors engineer with access to the automaker’s hybrid technology was convicted Friday along with her husband of stealing trade secrets for possible use in China.

Shanshan Du won a transfer within GM in 2003 to be closer to the technology and then copied documents until she accepted a severance offer and left the company in 2005, prosecutors said.

Du, 54, and Yu Qin, 51, were found guilty Friday by a federal jury in Detroit after a trial that lasted weeks. Qin also was convicted of wire fraud and attempting to obstruct justice by shredding documents. They shook each other’s hand after the verdict but declined to comment, as did their attorneys.

Du faces up to 10 years in prison, while her husband faces up to 30. {snip}

Prosecutors told jurors that GM trade secrets were found on at least seven computers owned by the Oakland County couple. The government doesn’t believe the information ever made it to China, although Qin had set up his own company, Millennium Technology International, and claimed to have made contact with GM competitors overseas.

{snip}

In her closing argument, Assistant U.S. Attorney Cathleen Corken said Du was the “linchpin” in the scheme because of her job at the automaker.

{snip}

Corken said the technology was worth at least $40 million, the price that other automakers paid GM to get it.

Du and Qin, both U.S. citizens, had been under scrutiny for years after GM accused them of theft. {snip}

It’s not the first trade secrets prosecution in the Detroit auto industry. In 2011, an engineer who stole information from Ford Motor Co. was sentenced to nearly six years in prison.

Xiang Dong Yu, also known as Mike Yu, admitted copying thousands of documents with details on engine transmission systems and electrical power supply before leaving Ford to work for a Chinese competitor in 2008.

{snip}

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  • David Ashton

    Not an isolated event. Just proves how brainy they are and how stupid we all are, doesn’t it, John Engelman?

    • JohnEngelman

      Orientals have a lower crime rate than whites. When they do commit crimes they are more likely to require superior intelligence.

      • APaige

        Yes in the U.S, but whites have a lower crime rate in China. Superior intelligence? They had to STEAL to obtain the knowledge. That is not superior it is criminal.

      • David Ashton

        Stealing a nation’s latest technology is a more serious crime than mugging you on a dark night.

        • i am

          What about letting them steal it?

          • David Ashton

            That too. If you welcome burglars you are likely to lose something.

      • Svigor

        Yes, yellows have lower crime rates than whites. Yes, they also have higher mean IQ.

        But that doesn’t answer the questions: why do whites create societies that both whites and yellows agree they’d rather live in? Why do yellows create societies that both whites and yellows agree are inferior to white societies?

        Import Mexicans and you get Mexico. Import Nigerians and you get Nigeria. Import Chinese and you get China.

        Yellows are horribly corrupt, and too conformist to lead the way in innovation and civilization.

        • JohnEngelman

          Import Mexicans and you get Mexico. Import Nigerians and you get Nigeria. Import Chinese and you get China.

          – Svigor

          According to James Q. Wilson and Richard Hernstein, “During the 1960s, one neighborhood in San Francisco had the lowest income, the highest unemployment rate, the highest proportion of families with incomes under four thousand dollars a year, the least educational attainment, the highest tuberculosis rate, and the highest proportion of substandard housing…that neighborhood was called Chinatown. Yet, in 1965, there were only five persons of Chinese ancestry committed to prison in the entire state of California.” — P.44
          http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/the-best-quotes-from-larry-elders-the-ten-things-you-cant-say-in-america/

          ————

          • Svigor

            According to everyone, Chinese would rather live in America than in China.

            According to everyone who’s read this thread, your arguments are a ramshackle of cherry-picking, obfuscation, subject-changing, question-dodging, etc.

      • GM (Australia)

        Yes, many of the drug importation schemes, extortion rackets, immigration fraud scams and ATM thefts here in Sydney show a very high degree of intelligent deviousness, well beyond the mentality of our local “smash & grab” gangs. In fact the NSW Police have a special Asian Crime Task Force to deal with it all.

        • JohnEngelman

          Perhaps Chinese gangsters should be stealing trade secrets from the Mafia. I doubt the Mafia has much to learn from them.

          This thread is about two Chinese Americans who broke the law. The opening comment points out, “The government doesn’t believe the information ever made it to China.”

          Nevertheless, the Sinophobes are using this crime as an excuse to express their dislike for an entire people.

          What matters, as I have said on several occasions quoting many sources, including writings by Jared Taylor, and professors J. Philippe Rushton and Richard Lynn, is that the Chinese have lower crime rates than white Americans, and higher average IQs.

          I have also pointed out that professors J. Philippe Rushton and Richard Lynn have spoken at American Renaissance conferences.

          Race realism requires a realistic understanding of racial differences.

          • Svigor

            What matters is that you’ve been taken to the woodshed in this thread too many times to count, and you don’t have the intellectual tools to respond.

          • JohnEngelman

            My opinions are fact based and logical. Yours are not.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            In the Engleman mindset if you are not for massive immigration of Chinese to drastically change demographics in the US you are a “Sinophobe”, implying you have a mental disorder. You have outdone yourself EngleChung.

          • David Ashton

            The answer is to raise the IQ and improve the morality of our own people, not import Chinese to replace them.
            Intelligence is obviously a necessary requirement for the creation and maintenance of a civilization, but not sufficient. Cultural and moral character are also important. If faced with an enemy I would prefer our side to be more intelligent than theirs.

          • JohnEngelman

            Efforts to raise the IQs and improve the morality of blacks have yielded disappointing results for reasons I am confident you agree have been genetic. Why do you think it is possible to raise the IQs and improve the morality of whites?

          • David Ashton

            The efforts to raise black standards in recent decades have been limited by the fact that they are not eugenic. Efforts to raise “yellow” standards in China, Singapore and Japan have also had a eugenic dimension (see Frank Dikotter’s books on this). Why shouldn’t humanitarian eugenics return, along with appropriate education, to white (and black) families in the USA and elsewhere? Read the constructive suggestions from Dr John Glad (on-line) – an Ashkenazi Jew, so kosher enough for your attention.

          • JohnEngelman

            First of all, I am in favor of eugenics. I say after Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, “Three generations of imbeciles is enough.”

            Nevertheless, human evolution takes time. It took the Chinese nearly two thousand years under the imperial exam system to develop their intellectual superiority. It took the Ashkenazim over one thousand years to develop an even higher level of average intelligence under more complex circumstances.

            I am in favor of replacing Aid to Families with Dependent Children with free abortion on demand. It should be very easy for an unmarried, unemployed, and unemployable female with a low IQ to terminate a pregnancy. It should be virtually impossible for her to raise her child.

          • David Ashton

            We agree on something: Oliver Wendell Holmes was right not wrong.

          • Svigor

            Episcopalians have them both whipped.

          • john

            Of course ALL Chinese crime is immediately reported to the police.right?I am not disagreeing that Chinese MAY have lower overall crimes stats than whites—you WILL ack. the white crime rate is padded by calling all sorts of non-white immigrunts “white”,right??(I recall a pic on Stormfront of a Mexican who looked like he just stepped out of a Richard Rodriguez film,100% Indian,a real dirtbag;up for rape.classified:WHITE!Maybe they rae classified according to the race of their victims??So who knows what the white crime rate really is;its sure as hell a low one—so its OK to flood the nation with these clannish Chinese simply because they may not hit me on the head and take my iPad? If theyre not HERE they wont hit me anyway!

  • Canadian Seer

    The Chinese, despite their supposed intelligence and the full support of our resident asiaphiles, are simply, as they physically look, drones. Creative brilliance and deep critical thinking are the domain of whites, not the copying and emulating Mongol. They are also, I feel, not capable of empathy for other people and creatures as whites are. They should remain in environmentally strip-mined and conformist Asia.

    • IstvanIN

      not capable of empathy for other…creatures
      Just because they skin and cook dogs alive?

      • NYB

        Chinese zoos are “barbaric” according to organizations which track animal abuse.

        In 2008, the Daily Mail featured a story of how live animals are torn apart for public entertainment.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506153/Animals-torn-pieces-lions-baying-crowds-spectator-sport-China-DOESNT-want-see.html

        • DudeWheresMyCountry?

          Nobody but the self loathing progressives think China is anything but a primitive culture with enough brains and manpower to cheat their way to global power. Nobody wants to be China.

          Engleman doesn’t even want to be China; but he wants your neighborhood, your industrial park and city hall to be China.

          • Doppleganger

            A “primitive culture” by definition couldn’t do what you just described. China’s far better than that.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Primitive by first world Western standards. Primitive by say Mexican or Somalian standards, no. China’s human rights and environmental records can be described as primitive in my first world point of view.

            Don’t you see, even with untold industrial might, massive economic largesse and global influence China will never be a first world country. Never, not next decade, not in 1,000 years. Primitive.

          • Doppleganger

            The U.S. isn’t exactly a shining star either when it comes to human rights. Our illegal invasion of another country for resources, plus the use of torture at places like Gitmo only scrape the surface. China shrugs off criticism of human rights because they know no one’s innocent, and more countries are starting to follow their lead in ignoring western hypocritical holier-than-thou attitudes.

            As for the environment, our multinational companies are guilty of a lot of it. When we off-shored our manufacturing, we didn’t decrease pollution, we just localized it in another place – China. So blaming them for suddenly having a bad environment is a pretty D-bag move. American companies also contribute greatly to the destruction rainforests.

            We’re not better and China’s not worse. We’re just as primitive by your criteria.

          • Svigor

            Yes, we’re better than the Chinese. What utter rot.

          • pcmustgo

            Ok, just to play devil’s advocate here (and I agree the asians are frigid, dronish and weird, and fully capable of being resentful and racist towards whites… asian behavior can be extremely bizarre, even more so than Blacks), will Russia ever be a first world country?

            I would imagine the Soviet Union was as bad as China now?

            Russians and Chinese, compare and contrast.

          • pcmustgo

            And your wife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • john

            Engleman sits at his computer all day trolling Asian dating sites. He is pathetic.

    • bluffcreek1967

      I too have noticed similar things about the Chinese (actually, Asians in general). They don’t seem particularly creative or deeply, critical thinkers. A review of the sort of books or literature they have produced throughout time would seem to support it. This appears to be the domain of Whites for the most part and, human history, has more or less confirmed it. I can’t deny that the Chinese are an intelligent race of people, but they seem to be more conformist and not as intellectually critical in their thinking as Whites. This would apply to the realm of arts as well.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/L3V4YPBTV7424CQSU24ZVJYFVY RIchard

        >They don’t seem particularly creative or deeply, critical thinkers

        Especially Confucius and that Lao Tzu guy, I’m sure a white guy probably ghost wrote all of their books.

      • pcmustgo

        A-MEN… Asians may be academically hard working and have high “IQ’s” , but yeah, I’ve known dozens through-out my overly-diverse life. many as friends, and yeah, they are not very “intellectual”, because being “intellectual” involves talking and being verbal. They are never very passionate about anything- more just sort of grade grubbers.

    • Svigor

      I think the difference is one of degree, but essentially agree with you otherwise.

      Corruption also seems to be indelibly stamped on the culture, if not their genes.

      • Doppleganger

        Ever heard of Wall Street? You have no idea what REAL corruption is.

        • Svigor

          Ever heard of Chinese culture, as a whole? You have no idea what REAL corruption is.

          • Doppleganger

            So out of all the ancient empires and civilizations, the only one to survive intact also happens to be the most corrupt? Get real. If you were right, China would have been the first to fall.

          • Svigor

            I think graft is perfectly consistent with long tenure. Chinese are corrupt because they’re pragmatic to the point of never fixing systemic problems. Kith and kin to their conformity.

        • john

          Wall Street is not WHITE if you know what I mean.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/L3V4YPBTV7424CQSU24ZVJYFVY RIchard

      ” Creative brilliance and deep critical thinking are the domain of whites”

      Right that’s why white people invented algebra right? Oh no wait that was mostly Egyptians and Indians. Actually wait a minute, most of the fundamental principals of mathematics were proposed by non-whites, that’s right I almost forgot. Oh well, it’s not like anyone every uses math for anything anyways. We invented 2 and a Half Men and that’s what really matters.

      >They are also, I feel, not capable of empathy for other people and creatures as whites are.

      All xenophobia and the obvious irony it inspires aside (seriously you feel empathy?) this is a serious problem in Chinese culture. I remember reading an article about a child being run over not once but twice in front of a crowd. It went unnoticed until a rag-collector dragged the body off the street. It’s known as the bystander effect and is not in any way relegated to Asia.

      It’s not really reinforced by Chinese culture either. They don’t have a good samaritan laws like we do and it’s fairly common knowledge that helping someone could result in you being sued, fined, or even possibly jailed. From what I understand it’s an outdated Confucian value that they are looking to shed.

      • john

        Yeah and it was the Chinese that invented CALCULUS! Remember Isaac Chang?

    • Achaean

      Exactly, as I just commented; and you can read The Uniqueness of Western Civilization, which shows in meticulous detail why and how the West came to be the most original, creative, superior culture. The Chinese have dull mind, boring to the very core.

    • Doppleganger

      What China does isn’t mere “copying”. That’s way too simplistic. Reverse-engineering is the re-invention of something; the only difference is that it’s not entirely from scratch. This process, along with direct espionage, contributes greatly to China’s accelerated pace of development. It is in fact the best thing they could be doing for themselves right now, and shouldn’t be construed as a lack of creativity, imagination etc. Whatever they can’t obtain from someone else, they’ll make on their own.

      All humans are capable of empathy. Saying that another group isn’t, is nothing short of extreme. If what you said was true, China as a society would have fallen apart ages ago. But it hasn’t. Their culture has stayed intact for thousands of years.

      • Svigor

        Their lack of creativity should be construed as a lack of creativity.

        • Doppleganger

          That’s circular logic. Your premise is also your conclusion.

          • Svigor

            It’s not circular logic to call a spade a spade. It’s not logic of any kind, just an observation.

          • Doppleganger

            When you call “a spade a spade”, it’s all according to -you-. Your belief isn’t unanimous by any stretch of the imagination, especially since it also seems like you’re not open to further discussion or other explanations.

          • Doppleganger

            When you call “a spade a spade”, it’s all according to -you-. Your belief isn’t unanimous by any stretch of the imagination, especially since it also seems like you’re not open to further discussion or other explanations.

          • Svigor

            It’s also not circular logic.

          • Doppleganger

            Yes it is. The only reason people are agreeing with you is because of the demographic who visits AmRen. This isn’t a race neutral site.

          • josh

            We’re talking about Chinese,not negroes…

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/L3V4YPBTV7424CQSU24ZVJYFVY RIchard

        What an amazingly unbiased and level-headed analyses of the situation. This is what I expect out of white people, not ignorant tribalism and baseless accusations. Personal feelings have absolutely no place in intelligent argument, if you have any interest in being truly objective and unbiased.

        >All humans are capable of empathy. Saying that another group isn’t, is nothing short of extreme.

        I touched on this in another comment but you’re exactly correct. The bystander effect isn’t exclusive to Asiatic races, nor is it uncommon behavior. A lot of what is seen by Westerners as lack of empathy is simply misinterpretation of cultural norms. We had a similar problem in America and we attempted to solve it by passing good samaritan laws so that anyone attempting to help would be immune from legal responsibility in the event of a death.

    • Dan Reardon

      John Engleman is going to be very upset with you.

    • pcmustgo

      I agree passionately. Little clones and drones. The less assimilated they are, the worse it gets. They are as alien to us as Blacks. Maybe more so.

  • JackKrak

    Good that we have so many immigrants willing to steal the industrial trade secrets that Americans won’t steal, eh?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jesse-Peterson/100003526607299 Jesse Peterson

      They’ve even stolen a lot of the STEM slots in our colleges. And the colleges go out of their way to accomodate them.

      • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

        U. S. colleges and universities are leftist bastions. They deeply infected by the diversity delusion..

      • JohnEngelman

        For years, many Asian-Americans have been convinced that it’s harder for them to gain admission to the nation’s top colleges.

        Studies show that Asian-Americans meet these colleges’ admissions standards far out of proportion to their 6 percent representation in the U.S. population, and that they often need test scores hundreds of points higher than applicants from other ethnic groups to have an equal chance of admission…

        Asian students have higher average SAT scores than any other group, including whites. A study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade examined applicants to top colleges from 1997, when the maximum SAT score was 1600 (today it’s 2400). Espenshade found that Asian-Americans needed a 1550 SAT to have an equal chance of getting into an elite college as white students with a 1410 or black students with an 1100.
        http://www.amren.com/news/2011/12/some_asians_col/

        Orientals do not need to steal what they can get honestly.

        • APaige

          So if they cannot obtain something honestly they have to steal? For the longest time whites always had higher verbal test scores-are Asians now cheating to get something they could not get honestly?

          • JohnEngelman

            Orientals average lower SAT scores on reading, but that is no surprise because for many English is a second language. Since the school year of 1986 – 87 they have averaged higher SAT scores in mathematics. They are reducing the race gap in reading, while increasing the race gap in mathematics.

            http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171

          • Svigor

            Brilliant yellow minds have yet to solve the problem of creating societies yellows would prefer to white societies, which is why the yellows all want to live in societies created by whites.

            98% of everything good in the world came from white men.

            So much for test scores.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Even those who were born in the US and grew up speaking English at home probably have lower language skills than whites. I can’t prove this, which is why I say “probably”, but while my high school calculus classes had most of the school’s Oriental students, my A.P. English class had exactly zero.

            None of the kids in question nor their parents were immigrants.

          • JohnEngelman

            Mandarin is said to be one of the most difficult languages for those to learn whose first language is English. Perhaps it is the most difficult language for English speakers to learn.

            I am confident that the number of Chinese and Chinese Americans who can speak English is very much larger than the number of whites of any country who can speak Mandarin.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Does that have anything to do with anything at all?

          • JohnEngelman

            It sure does. You think that because whites in the United States are generally better at English than Chinese Americans that indicates genetic superiority.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Yes, I do.

            I also think we’re better at war.

            Next “question”, Mr. Engels?

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            They eagerly want to learn English. We eagerly want to avoid even hearing Mandarin in large numbers outside of a vacation to The Far East.

          • JohnEngelman

            If your children learn Mandarin it may help them talk to their immediate supervisors.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Speak for your own children, since you seem to wish them a slave race.

          • David Ashton

            Well said.
            Chinese script like much else in that country is pictorially beautiful. Speech sounds “musical” because tones are needed to give different meanings to similar phonemes. But the language is essentially primitive, frozen in time compared to Indo-European tongues which are more flexible, versatile and grammatically logical, especially English which has a range of synonyms with subtle differences and a vocabulary that provides among other things an almost unique range of poetic devices, proverbs, &c.
            On a world scale I for one prefer “white” supremacy to Mongol domination.

          • Svigor

            Just as the number of yellows dying to immigrate to white countries is very much larger than the number of whites who would even consider immigrating to a yellow country.

            Thanks for making our points for us, even if unintentionally and obliquely.

          • pcmustgo

            Asians score high on tests but are not very inquisitive, talkative or “intellectual”. Or communcative…. they are the ultimate grade grubbers

        • ATBOTL

          They then they must not be able to get cutting edge technology honesty, since they always steal it from the white man.

          • JohnEngelman

            Not always; not even usually. What matters is that Chinese in the United States usually outperform whites academically and economically. This is not because of any kind of chicanery. They earn their achievements because of their superior intelligence.

            I expect China to dominate the world in this century, and indefinitely into the future. As China dominates the world, Chinese immigrants and their descendants will dominate the countries they live in.

            If you have children, try to get them to learn Mandarin. It may help them talk to their bosses.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94T-NC3uv3o

          • Michael_C_Scott

            I don’t expect China to dominate anything at all. They currently have too many very poor people, and 20 years from now will have too many very old people.

            Have you actually ever been outside the US, Mr. Engels?

          • i am

            Have you actually ever been outside the US, Mr. Engels?

            He has been to Israel.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            I’ll bet the coward didn’t serve in the IDF.

            Were there a special nation for my ethnicity, and armed forces of its own, I Michael Scott, firearms expert, explosives expert, ex-chemist, vegetable gardener and US convicted federal felon on the Terrorist Watch List, would travel there, enlist and then go career.

            I would want my old gun collection back.

          • john

            Theres talk of war in Freedonia!!

          • josh

            I dont get the point of this guy. He is surely not converting anybody,quite the opposite;I grow ever more desirous to put my foot in his smug punim!! While I think he is an Bitter Asian Man,most seem to accept that he is a Jew. His venom is subdued,almost “passive-aggressive”,and he writes in a weird choppy style. He doesnt seem to write like a jew whom you would expect to be more openly hateful,vicious & scatalogical.

          • David Ashton

            Your views become more self-revealing as you go on, and don’t you “go on”?

            You exaggerate the IQ levels of mainland Chinese, and minimize the data on Chinese internal and external crime. Read the US Government data on assessing the international crime threat from Chinese networks.
            Also read R. J. Rummel’s “China’s Bloody Century” (1991) and Yang Jisheng’s “Tombstone” (2012) for a less enthusiastic view of your chosen masters and their civilization.

          • David Ashton

            And what will become of your beloved Israel in a Chinese world?

          • Svigor

            Exactly. I’ll agree to Engleman’s suggestions after the Israelis have turned their country over to the brilliant yellows.

          • JohnEngelman

            My hope is that when China dominates the world it will be as protective toward Israel as the United States has been.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWhCIUvnhIg

          • Svigor

            Shouldn’t the Israelis be importing lots of big-brain Chinese? Jews, being a smart people, should surely understand the benefits of importing a few hundred thousand “cognitively elite” Chinamen, right?

            I’ll peg my policy to Israeli Jews’ policy in the mean time: I’ll say “no thanks” to importing big-brained Chinamen.

          • JohnEngelman

            Genesis 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates.

          • Svigor

            LOL. Yes, let’s switch from “cognitive elitism” to Bible thumping.

            You’re not performing very well. What were your test scores like?

          • GM (Australia)

            It will probably require WW3 to get this to happen, aided by the present ME crisis. What side will China be taking in all of this?
            Again thank you John for keeping this debate lively!

          • JohnEngelman

            You are very welcome. Let’s try to keep things civil.

          • GM (Australia)

            You always do and I think I always do.

            As for your comment from Deut. 28, I feel this should be quoted whenever the Palestinians cry out that they want a return to pre-1967 borders, Deuteronomy is most certainly pre-1967.

            As to Chinese science an technology, they are largely copiers but they certainly add their own special flair.

            As for the Chinese people, I meet many absolutely fantastic Chinese from time to time but I find it difficult to really relate to them and feel that we have far too many here in Sydney, far too many and in only 30 years, it is a worry.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Their own special flair being low quality, low reliability machines. Take a look at a Chinese scooter, they steal the designs from Honda and still manage to make a machine that breaks down and needs to have drivetrain work done in the first few hundred miles.

          • josh

            How stupid of John E. to quote the Bible;how equally stupid of you to go along with the ethnic cleansing of the Pallies,because the Bible said something 3000 years,and expect THEM to be happy with that. The jews never ever flinched from using terrorism when it suited their needs(including murdering Americans) but cry “Terrorist” when the Pallies fight back with the only weapon they have.

          • Svigor

            Forthrightness is a hallmark of civility, a quality singularly lacking in your contributions.

            Arguing in bad faith does not measure up.

          • Svigor

            What debate? Engelman contributes nothing to the debate, he just keeps ducking the issues and changing the subject.

          • David Ashton

            Deuteronomy 28 “However, if you do not follow all his commandments, the Lord will scatter you among the nations.” Brought to you by the same source that suggests the Chinese and all the other races came from one small family in an “ark” a few thousand years ago.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            The same God gave me everyplace else, including Europe, the Americas, Asia, Africa (ick) Australia, Antarctica and every planet orbiting other stars.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Like the way they helped Pakistan develop an atomic bomb and the way their protegee, North Korea is a close ally of Iran?

            Dream on, Mr. Engels.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Sure, while they sell bullets and bombs to Iran. It is clear you know very little of International Relations. You Sir, to The Chinaman are a useful idiot. The funny part is no Chinaman would go out of their way for you, no Chinaman would welcome your kind to overrun their homelands… ever, under any circumstances. The point is, Asians are smarter than you. Asians are not smarter than me or the AR community; if they were we would be talking about moving to China for better jobs, standard of living, opportunities, etc.

          • JohnEngelman

            It was Ronald Reagan who sold weapons to Iran, remember?

          • JohnEngelman

            According to Richard Lynn, who has spoken at American Renaissance conferences, the average IQ for mainland China is 100. It is 98 in the United States. It is 107 in Hong Kong, 103 in Singapore, and 104 in Taiwan.

            http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

            IQ is partly determined by standard of living, but mainly by genetics. As the economy in China improves I am confident there will be improvements in the average IQ there.

            For nearly two thousand years the imperial exam system of China enabled brilliant men from all social origins to have large numbers of children. It provided them with generous incomes so that those children were more prone to survive and reproduce.

            At the same time in the West intelligent peasant boys entered the priesthood of the Roman Catholic Church, where they were forbidden to have any children at all. This explains the high average IQs of Chinese wherever they live. It is why China is destined to dominate the world.

          • Svigor

            Yet yellows to this day continue to flee their own societies, in favor of ours.

          • JohnEngelman

            You do not see an influx of Japanese to the United States do you? Despite over population and lack of natural resources the Japanese economy is nearly as large as ours. The Chinese economy is growing faster than ours.

            https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html?countryName=United%20States&countryCode=us&regionCode=noa&rank=2#us

            Both of these countries have much lower crime rates than the United States.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

          • Svigor

            You seem to make a habit of ignoring the conversation and ducking the arguments.

            Not exactly the path to persuasion.

            I’ll take acting like the Japanese over listening to your advice, any day of the week. The Japanese do not invite Europeans into their countries in significant numbers. They certainly do not pursue the strategies you’re advocating here. Neither do the Chinese, or the Jews in Israel.

          • JohnEngelman

            I try to ignore insults and rhetorical questions.

            I am in favor of more restrictions on immigration, and see little reason to admit third world immigrants, although I like the Hispanics I know. Hispanic immigration continues because most Americans disagree with me.

            According to a Gallup Survey released June 7 – 10, 2012 42 percent of Americans want immigration to continue at its present level. 21 percent want it to be increased. 35 percent want it to be decreased.

            http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Stop spreading lies about immigration. Americans don’t want increased immigration or even immigration at current levels. Americans want decreased immigration. Just about every point you make to support you r silly arguments are based in pseudo truths via some poll or article.

            You should really consider trolling another site as 99% of the AR population doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t like you. Move on to hufpost or dailykos or something more agreeable with you. Certainly AR is not the place for you to be sharing your thoughts… there are much better places for you.

          • JohnEngelman

            Dude, where’s your proof?

            I document my assertions using credible sources.

          • Svigor

            You ignore everything. When you do respond, all you do is ignore the conversation, like an Aspie. You certainly do not strike me as neurotypical.

          • JohnEngelman

            I respond to debatable points, but you seldom post any. You ignore facts that are inconsistent with your prejudices.

            It is next to impossible to reason with someone who ignores facts documented by credible sources.

          • Svigor

            More of your nonsense. I have rejected no facts. I have defenestrated you rhetorically, though.

          • pcmustgo

            In poll after poll, Blacks have the highest anti-immigrant sentiment

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Curiously, Japanese in the United States have a lower crime rate than Japanese in Japan, even though they can have guns in the US. No Yakuza (Japanese Mafia) activity worth mentioning here, you see.

            The Yakuza, by the way are overwhelmingly the “burakumin” from eastern Japan, descendants from the old “eta” (untouchable) caste. Marriage arrangements in Japan today usually involve investigation to ensure that neither party is a burak.

          • JohnEngelman

            A tsunami that followed a massive earthquake last month may have destroyed some of Japan’s structures, but police say the honest practice of turning in lost items, especially cash, remains intact.

            Residents have turned in lost cash across the tsunami zone at a much higher rate than usual, the Miyagi Prefectural Police Department tells CNN.
            http://www.amren.com/news/2011/04/japanese_citize/

            ————–

            Japan has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, slightly behind Hong Kong.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Move there, then, and see how much fun it is.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            The lack of civil unrest in Japan after the tsunami is a signature example of why multiculturalism is a lie. Please don’t lump The Japanese with The Chinese; China is nowhere near Japan in terms of technical and scientific achievement.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Wrong, wrong, wrong Engels, again!

            The per-capita Japanese GNP is still lower than that of the USA, and with 120 million citizens instead of 320 million, it isn’t “nearly as large”, you liar.

          • JohnEngelman

            A large economy is defined by one with a large gross domestic product, not a large per capita gross domestic product.

            According to the CIA World Factbook the largest economy is that of the European Union, followed by the United States, followed by China, followed by Japan.

            https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html?countryName=United%20States&countryCode=us&regionCode=noa&rank=2#us

            The United States is number eleven in per capita gross domestic product. We are behind Singapore and Hong Kong, where the vast majority of the population is Chinese. We are also behind Norway, with its Social Democratic economy.

            https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=United%20States&countryCode=us&regionCode=noa&rank=11#us

            We are even behind Bermuda, which is 54 percent black.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda

          • JohnEngelman

            A large economy is defined as one with a high gross domestic product, not a high gross domestic product per capita.

            According to The CIA World Factbook the European Union has the highest gross domestic product, followed by the United States, followed by China, followed by Japan.

            https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html?countryName=United%20States&countryCode=us&regionCode=noa&rank=2#us

            The United States is number eleven in percapita gross domestic product. We are behind Hong Kong and Singapore, where Chinese are in the vast majority, and Norway, with its Social Democratic economy.

            https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=United%20States&countryCode=us&regionCode=noa&rank=11#us

            Even Bermuda, with its 54 percent black population, is ahead of the United States in per capita gross domestic product.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda

          • i am

            That is because the white man is an idiot, and will give them everything they have. Once the free handouts are gone, so to will be the Chinese, and any other non-whites.

          • David Ashton

            These IQ figures do not refute my point at all.

          • JohnEngelman

            This is your point, “You exaggerate the IQ levels of mainland Chinese, and minimize the data on Chinese internal and external crime.”

            My refutation, which I have documented many times, using many sources including writings by Jared Taylor and Professor Rushton, is that the Chinese have higher average IQs than white Americans, and lower crime rates.

            Two Chinese convicted of steeling trade secrets do not in any way refute my praise of that splendid nation.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Splendid! Yet millions of Chinese and Engleman types won’t live there, you insist on living amongst the “dirty” Americans. Mrs. Huffington, is that you??

          • David Ashton

            “In 2000 there were 10,170,000 people…in China with IQ less than 70…. There are thought to be 10,000,000 children in China with IQs over 130″
            Louise Higgins (Galton Institute, 2006). I remain skeptical about the representative character of the samples used by Richard Lynn.

          • Greg Thomas

            I agree. I highly doubt Engleman is White. I would bet Engleman is a racist asian female. There is no way that a White person (sane White person) could be that enamored with asians.

          • Svigor

            No, what matters is that yellows flee the societies they create, for the societies that whites create, and that the reverse is not true.

            They will bring their problems with them, and recreate them in our societies, to the extent we let them.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            You’re being wildly unrealistic about China. Right now it has an immense number of very, very poor people. In 20 years, China will have an immense number of very, very old people.

            They’re going to be making our running shoes until the end of time.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Orientals are clearly more intelligent than you. If you had a shred of credibility you would move to China, never to return… but you won’t. We here at AR don’t kiss the dirty feet of the Chinese, but you do as they… The Chinaman is your mental overlord. The rest of us are not particularly impressed with their accomplishments, culture or history.

          • GM (Australia)

            John, I do not want my grandchildren and recently arrived great grand son to be required to learn Mandarin or even Hindu. I also want them to be able to get a good job or university place without having to compete with Chinese immigrants.

          • JohnEngelman

            Blacks do not like to have to compete with whites either.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            What is your point? You keep revealing yourself as a self loathing progressive… always trying to turn some fake moral imperative out of White displacement, discrimination and encroachment of our territory.

          • JohnEngelman

            Perhaps you are projecting your “self loathing” onto me. You make me think of the following sentence by Eric Hoffer, “The less justified a man is in claiming excellence for his own self, the more ready he is to claim all excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or his holy cause.”

            I have enough self confidence that I do not need to take pride in being white. I am able to appreciate other nations, races, and cultures.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Wow, you just quoted Eric Holder. I would have been more moved if you had walked down the street and got a quote from a transient. That is hilarious. Keep accusing me of being someone Eric Holder wouldn’t like. I’m not on his side, and your not on our side.

            I take pride in the achievements and accomplishments of my ancestors and their cultures, which are all White. And I am proud of them. You are a progressive so if i don’t adhere to your ideas I am awful, racist, ignorant and incapable of appreciating any other people or cultures.

            You are making the bigoted assumption as part of libprog playbook 101 that I can’t appreciate the world at large. Appreciating it and not wanting it on my doorstep are far different things that progressives cant see or refuse to admit to seeing.

            I have lived outside of the US and I have been to over 25 countries, I guarantee I have seen more of the world than you have. And I “appreciate” other cultures plenty. Don’t bark up that tree boy.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            If you think about it Eric Holder’s quote is a perfect description of his own beliefs and biases.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            You’re even less white than I am.

          • josh

            No one proclaims excellence for his people more than the jews,a fanatically etno-centric group who go to great lengths to stop Arabs from sexing Israeli girls,who forbid intermarriage,and do NOT want 20 million high IQ Chinese to call their land Home,which I am sure they(the Chinese) would happily do.Its surprising that those who proclaim the joy of “competition”–as Sailer says,its “Lets you & him fight”–are so reluctant to engage in it with the enthusiasm that they recommend it to US!

          • JohnEngelman

            Since its first issue in 1945, COMMENTARY has published hundreds of articles about Jews and Judaism. As one would expect, they cover just about every important aspect of the topic. But there is a lacuna, and not one involving some obscure bit of Judaica. COMMENTARY has never published a systematic discussion of one of the most obvious topics of all: the extravagant overrepresentation of Jews, relative to their numbers, in the top ranks of the arts, sciences, law, medicine, finance, entrepreneurship, and the media.

            I have personal experience with the reluctance of Jews to talk about Jewish accomplishment—my co-author, the late Richard Herrnstein, gently resisted the paragraphs on Jewish IQ that I insisted on putting in The Bell Curve (1994). Both history and the contemporary revival of anti-Semitism in Europe make it easy to understand the reasons for that reluctance. But Jewish accomplishment constitutes a fascinating and important story. Recent scholarship is expanding our understanding of its origins.

            And so this Scots-Irish Gentile from Iowa hereby undertakes to tell the story. I cover three topics: the timing and nature of Jewish accomplishment, focusing on the arts and sciences; elevated Jewish IQ as an explanation for that accomplishment; and current theories about how the Jews acquired their elevated IQ.

            – Charles Murray from “Jewish Genius”
            http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/jewish-genius/

          • Svigor

            Jews are terrified of all those big-brain Chinese immigrants who’d love to move to Israel. They know these brainiacs (fleeing the homelands created by their fellow Chinese big-brains) will out-compete them intellectually.

            They’re so afraid, they won’t let any of them into their country.

            Along similar lines, all the smart Ashkenazi Jews live in the diaspora, in nations peopled by European Christians; Ashkenazi mean IQ in the diaspora is around 107; in Israel, it is 103. Of course, the mean IQ of the Israeli population is 97; Jews aren’t smart – Ashkenazi Jews are.

            The smart Ashkenazis know better than to live in a country peopled in the main by their fellow Jews, because the Ashkenazi advantage is owed as much to ethnocentrism and other psychological factors as it is to IQ.

          • Svigor

            He has heaped no loathing upon himself or his tribe, only reverence. His loathing he saves for us.

          • Svigor

            Jews in Israel don’t like having to compete with Chinese big-brains either, apparently.

            What’s your point?

          • JohnEngelman

            My point is that in the Untied States white Gentiles of average and below average intelligence often resent the presence of Jews and Orientals because they cannot compete with them intellectually.

            You ought to have been able to discern that.

          • Svigor

            Jews in Israel are so terrified of the multitudes of big-brain Chinese immigrants (with whom they cannot hope to compete intellectually) that they don’t even allow them into the country in the first place.

            Can you discern my point?

          • Doppleganger

            Most posters on AmRen preach White greatness over all others. So, why would you worry about competing against the Chinese? Surely China’s finest don’t scare you…

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            It’s not the issue of competing, we don’t want them here at all as they don’t want us there either. I could compete with a goat over my house if I wanted to but I’d rather just keep the goat elsewhere. We are not a social experiment, we are Americans! And we don’t need to justify why we don’t want foreigners here in large numbers.

          • Doppleganger

            Justification is needed especially when countries like the U.S. and Canada specifically market themselves as being open and tolerant of others.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Justification is needed? For what, the survival of our culture and people? I don’t think so. Dream on. I know what you are.

          • Svigor

            “Cognitive elitists” like to talk about “competition” because they regard whites as suckers concerned with fair play. They don’t let anyone compete with them in their bailiwicks; that’s for the suckers they’re pawning “cognitive elitism” off on.

        • josh

          You need to look into the admission shenanigans at Ivy League schools. White men are BRUTALLY discriminated against. The finest minds in America are rejected from the Ivy League because they have the misfortune to be WHITE. (And here I am obv. distinguishing between whites and the people you pretend to be a part of,the Jews. The jews run the Ivy League,which is why the whites are so beaten down trying to get IN.)

          • http://countenance.wordpress.com/ Question Diversity
          • JohnEngelman

            What you have posted are the kinds of alibis blacks use to explain away their failures in life. Jews and Orientals earn their positions at America’s best universities and corporations with their superior intelligence.

          • Svigor

            You argue like a black; in bad faith, and studiously avoiding actual engagement.

          • JohnEngelman

            What do I say that is not true? Be specific.

          • Svigor

            The sky is blue. That is both true, and deceptive, because it’s an irrelevant fact.

          • JohnEngelman

            The fact that Jews and Orientals average higher IQs that white Gentiles is a relevant fact when discussing admissions to Ivy League universities. How is it not?

          • Svigor

            The fact that Jews do not let high-IQ Chinamen into their country at all, much less their universities, is more relevant and trumps your relevant fact, rendering it irrelevant. There are enough high-IQ Chinamen in the world to replace every citizen of Israel with someone of higher IQ.

            The fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Indians with IQs higher than most Chinamen has not led the Chinese to replace their “inferior” citizens with “superior” Indians. This relevant fact trumps your relevant fact, rendering it irrelevant.

          • JohnEngelman

            What you say is irrelevant to the important fact that Jews and Orientals average higher IQs than white Gentiles. That is why they dominate our best universities and corporations, and why they usually earn more than white Gentiles in the United States.

  • Madmike

    Hey GM, good move hiring Chinese and teaching them all your trade secrets!

    • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

      GM did not hire Chinese. Du and Qin are both U.S. citizens.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/NQHEAYZCMBOERHG2VZRDQ3YUSQ Felix

        “Du and Qin are both U.S. citizens.”

        Yeah, right, right. U.S. “citizens”. Got ya’. US citizenship: It’s now given away so cheaply, that it means little too its recipient.

        • ed91

          every chinese mother’s dream.

      • Michael_C_Scott

        Naturalized colonists (not “immigrants”) who couldn’t wait to head back to the mother country and cash in.

  • You Are Now Enriched

    Ignore this story. Non white Immigrants are the lifeblood of America’s future, and especially ignore that they are parasites sucking the blood out of our future.

    • JohnEngelman

      A country cannot have too many people with high IQs.

      • Skincognito

        Your IQ fetish is truly bizarre. It reminds me of phrenology in the mid-19th century. Love your race or go home. Yes, racial loyaly, like nationalism, is not always rational. Neither is the current kowtow on the part of thE Occidental toward the Orient.

        • Svigor

          Of course it’s rational. Composing one’s populace of people as similar to yourself as is practicable is always a better idea than composing it of people who just happen to be intelligent, regardless of whether they hate you or not.

          It’s the survival instinct. Survival’s always rational.

          • Skincognito

            Fair enough. I agree, but we must believe in our civilization like we love our children. These are not rational verbs (love, believe). My point was that the “race realist” discourse cannot be limited to IQ, crime rates, per capita income, etc. These are important sets of data, but as an historian and a Germanist I return to the Fichtian Volksgeist as a crucial, irrational element in the construction of national/racial identity. It is not quantifiable, but it means everything for our survival. I think we are at semantic odds, but fundamentally in agreement. You are correct, securing a future for my children is rational, but overcoming the cultural/institutional/social barriers erected against us in order to do so requires a degree of faith in my Volk. Can we agree that this is an essential irrational element, or is race just a skin deep indicator of standardized test performance?

          • Svigor

            If you’re saying you don’t mind if irrational rationales (sorry) put the right people in the foxholes with us, then I agree.

          • pcmustgo

            I’m half jewish and I am similar to whites. In fact, I grew up all my life thinking I was white and later got bullied for it.

          • David Ashton

            Who by? Other Jews?

          • josh

            by his black girlfirend

      • APaige

        That steal and gives vital information and technology to a foreign country?

        • JohnEngelman

          If you were looking for another reason to date an Asian male, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics just came up with one. In their latest report on earnings in the 2nd quarter of 2010, Asian men topped the charts again, making $901 in median weekly earnings. Asian women were second at $854, followed by white men at $838.
          http://www.8asians.com/2010/08/01/asian-men-have-the-highest-salary/

          The great majority of Orientals earn their higher incomes legally.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            I make less than that every month, but this white guy sitting my my chair here was do darned stupid, he paid off his mortgage in 2004, after only eight years..

            My wife and daughter are visiting her side of the family, so I have the heat turned down to 50. It’s five degrees warmer than that upstairs, so it doesn’t bother me when I sleep.

            I made two sandwiches today, the first at lunch was rabbit, lettuce and tomato with a grilled bun, lettuce, sliced tomato, mustard and mayo, and the second, for dinner was a 1/4 pound hamburger in which I kneaded Korean barbecue sauce into the ground beef before frying it, and then had it with sliced tomato and kimchi under the toasted bun. I will have to do that again. Asian fusion food can be pretty good. Breakfast was the usual: a cup of miso soup, a Spanish clementine, and six cups of unsweetened black coffee. I didn’t post this morning because I was finishing rebuilding the old 1983 Mazda Wankel engine in my wife’s 1931 Ford. It runs OK so far, and gets rubber again in all five gears.

            By the way, Mr. Engels, when did a Democrat ever think money meant anything?

          • http://www.facebook.com/george.clark.7545 George Clark

            Methinks johnengelman is roger ailes in disguise.

          • Svigor

            If yellows are so great, why isn’t China an attractive place for whites to live, as opposed to America, which is a far more attractive place for yellows to live than China is?

          • ed91

            give it a rest, jerkwater.

          • john

            “Another” reason? What was the first??

          • JohnEngelman

            Ask the women who date them. I am sure they will give you quite a list.

          • Svigor

            I have reevaluated my guess that John is a member of the tribe. Owing to a variety of tells, I think he’s probably one of our yellow trolls.

          • john

            BTW I dont think you are a jew after all;you yourself are a Chinese guy.

      • David Ashton

        Depends how their use their brains, doesn’t it?
        A country cannot have too many people of its own with high IQs but it need not welcome clever people from so loyal to their own countries that they rob ours.

        • JohnEngelman

          If you visit the offices of our most celebrated universities and corporations you will find plenty of Orientals using their brains legally, and receiving the rewards that they deserve.

          • Svigor

            Like all the Chinese who steal our secrets and sell them to the motherland, e.g., today’s article about the Chinese couple who stole hybrid tech from GM. They’re going to get their reward soon.

            I am not impressed by these Orientals who flee the societies created by their fellow Orientals to societies created by Whites. With a 1.3 billion of them and counting in China alone, one would hope to God they could produce some big brains. Why they can’t stay in their own lands and achieve success there is a better question.

          • john

            What I’d say to the Chinese–not to mention all the other immigrant trash flowing into out White nations–“YOU didnt build that…”

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/NQHEAYZCMBOERHG2VZRDQ3YUSQ Felix

        “A country cannot have too many people with high IQs.”

        If they’re all sociopaths, then they damn well can.

        • JohnEngelman

          Your implication is that Chinese and Jews are “all sociopaths.” This is obviously not true. The great majority of them are fine people, and a credit to every country they live in.

          • Svigor

            Your implication is that “cognitive elitism” is what “cognitive elites” do. This is obviously not true. They utterly reject it. Chinese and Israelis are uninterested in “high IQ immigration” from culturally, racially, and ethnically alien peoples.

          • Greg Thomas

            And your implication John is that all asians have “high IQs,” so we
            should allow massive asian immigration to continue on account we cannot have too many people with high IQs.

            How about we do away with the Hart-Cellar Act of 1965, and replace all those “high IQd asians” with high IQd White South Africans, Australians, Germans, English, Poles, etc?

          • JohnEngelman

            According to Richard Lynn, who has spoken at American Renaissance Conferences, the five top countries, as far as IQ is concerned, are Oriental.

            http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

            Professor J. Philippe Rushton, who spoke at six American Renaissance Conferences had this to say about racial differences in intelligence in his essay, “RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR”:

            “On average, Orientals are slower to mature, less fertile, and less sexually active, have larger brains and higher IQ scores. Blacks are at the opposite end in each of these areas. Whites fall in the middle.”
            http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Race_Evolution_Behavior.pdf

            Professor Rushton also pointed out that Orientals have lower crime rates than whites.

          • pcmustgo

            I’m half Jewish… we Jews seem to be grouped a lot here along with the Asians… when we are not groups with Blacks… I am far from a sociopath. I had too much guilt (white guilt!) growing up… too much of a do-gooder

          • pcmustgo

            Jews are far more TALKATIVE and verbal than the Asians. We may have some asiatic-ness to our eyes (slanty, small) but otherwise we are nothing like them. Jews are also not known for conformity. Jews have far, far more European blood in them than Asian. They are 90% European.

          • David Ashton

            Another meeting to discuss “The Ever Present Danger of Antisemitism”:
            Speaker: “Anti-Semites can never agree on what Jews have in common. That’s because we can never agree among ourselves.”
            Heckler: “I disagree”.

          • john

            “F— the goyim?” “On THAT we can agree!!”

          • john

            When you have enough Chinese,you have China. Not so good.When you have enough Jews,you have Israel.Isnt Israel a wonderful hi tech paradise? Not so much for the Pallies…

      • http://www.facebook.com/george.clark.7545 George Clark

        you are a strange person. your monkey icon looks a bit like my cat charlie.

        • JohnEngelman

          Please give Charlie an affectionate pat for me.

          • GM (Australia)

            My (late ) son used to give a mischievous “meow” when we used to walk past the local Chinese take-away, where on earth would he pick up that sort of behavior?!

      • Svigor

        I agree. Which is why I cannot fathom why Israel, a country peopled mainly by Jews (widely renowned for their high-flying intellects), steadfastly refuses to take on high-IQ immigrants from China and India.

        I guess “cognitive elitism” (the idea that high-IQ immigration is always good for western countries) is about doing what smart people tell us to do, and never, ever doing what smart people actually do.

        • Svigor

          Take note: Engelman makes no reply. He reminds me of that fellow “Whiskey” at Sailer’s blog and elsewhere. He likes to run his mouth but can’t answer criticism. And he puts Israeli/Jewish (not to mention Asian) interests far above European interests, on a site devoted to European interests. In short, the perfect spokesman for “cognitive elitism.”

          • josh

            As whiskey is Jewish,John Engelman is Chinese.

        • john

          The jews have different standards for the country they love(Israel) and the country that have colonized:US.Its why the disempowerment of jews in America is essential.

      • KD_Did

        Having a high IQ means nothing unless you have a civilization that provides rewards for it. That is capitalism. Even though it is diminishing every day, USA still provides those rewards. That’s why the yellows come here.

  • So CAL Snowman

    Once again those “super smart” High IQ asians just have to go and steal Whitey’s technology since they could not create it for themselves.

    • Doppleganger

      GM and other large auto and tech companies employ diverse workforces. Many employ Asians to do R&D. Case in point, the accused Chinese engineer under discussion who formerly worked for GM. To call it all “Whitey’s technology” is a misrepresentation. Don’t underestimate number of non-whites involved in American industries.

  • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

    For anyone who has read Jared Taylor’s WHITE IDENTITY: Racial Consciousness in the 21st Century (2011),continuing reports of this nature come as no surprise. Consider the following passage:.

    “China is hungry for American technology and devotes a major part of its huge espionage effort to the United States. The Chinese method of spying is different from that of the classic Soviet technique of sending trained professionals to burrow deep into enemy organizations. Beijing gets intelligence from thousands of part-time amateur spies: students, businessmen, and Chinese citizens of the target countries. According to the US Government Intelligence Threat Handbook, 98 percent of the Americans the Chinese approach for information are Chinese-Americans: ‘Ethnic targeting to arouse feelings of obligations is the single most distinctive feature of PRC [Peoples Republic of China] intelligence operations . . .’

    “Actual arrests, which, according to government sources, ‘are just the tip of the iceberg of an already-large and increasingly capable PRC intelligence effort,’ show that some Chinese-Americans are indeed susceptible to racial-nationalist appeals.” (pp 212-213)

    I’m sure John Engelman has committed this passage to memory..

    • JohnEngelman

      These are the passages by Jared Taylor that I have committed to memory:

      “Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate…

      “High arrest and incarceration rates for blacks and Hispanics—and very low rates for Asians—reflect differences in crime rates, not police or justice system bias..

      “In total, blacks had the highest incarceration rate at 7.2 times the white rate, followed by Hispanics, at 2.9 times the white rate. Indians and Pacific Islanders were imprisoned at about twice the white rate, and Asians at only 22 percent of the white rate.”
      http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf

      I have never said that Orientals never commit crimes. What matters is that they are much less prone to than whites.

      • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

        You equate the lethal impact on national security of common, low-level domestic crime and large scale and systematic espionage.

        Remember actual arrests (official crimes) of such as Du and Quin are the “tip of the iceberg.”

      • i am

        How many Chinese came across the Korean border to kill white Americans in the 1950s?

        • Michael_C_Scott

          About 400,000 more than went home.

      • Svigor

        You also have to keep in mind that you’re making apples to oranges comparisons; do you have statistics for white crime rates in yellow countries? White people in China are a select bunch, just as yellow people in America are a select bunch. Comparing them to one another would make for an apples to apples comparison.

        Surely as intellectually rigorous a fellow as yourself can see that? P.S., you going to answer the arguments about Israel vis-a-vis “cognitive elitism”? Or will you just whistle past the graveyard as “cognitive elitists” always do?

      • DudeWheresMyCountry?

        The Chinese are cheats and liars. They steal intellectual property. They manipulate their currency. They don’t obey copyright laws. They pollute the environment with no remorse even though they know it’s wrong. They back stab everyone else in the geo political realm. They can’t even have a stable, first world population (or second world) for the majority of their citizens as they aren’t smart enough to spread the wealth to each sector of their society. They have to be told legally how often they can breed. China will never create an enviable society for the lion’s share of Chinese. Nobody wants to move to China. Without Western thinkers China would be in the middle ages permanently. These people are so smart in 2012 they were able to land a plane on an aircraft carrier for the first time. And how dirty did they fight in Vietnam? Smart people don’t send children into restaurants to blow themselves up to kill soldiers.

        • JohnEngelman

          And how dirty did they fight in Vietnam?

          – DudeWheresMyCountry?

          The Chinese did not fight the United States in Vietnam. Is it necessary for me to explain the difference between Chinese and Vietnamese, or do all Orientals look the same to you?

          • GM (Australia)

            They are all very similar and my natural instinct is to critically ask “why are we letting so many into Australia” because I am very concerned, it seems so wrong and no, I am not xenophobic. (And I was not involved with the “Asians Out” graffiti which started to appear all over Sydney when the Chinese influx to Australia first started some 30 years ago.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Actually, they did. PLA advisors fought alongside NVA ground formations, and PLAAF and NVAF aircraft both intercepted US planes over North Vietnam, often operating from airfields in southern China.

            Communist Chinese forces in Vietnam numbered a peak of 170,000 during the Vietnam War, and suffered 1446 KIA and 4200 WIA according to PLA archives. The Soviet Union peaked at 3000 deployed in North Vietnam and suffered 16 KIA in an iron-hand strike on a Soviet-manned SAM battery.

            You’re blithering again, Mr. Engels.

          • JohnEngelman

            It turns out that you are right. Those are interesting facts.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            When it comes to war, I am usually right. Other guys could tell you who the mother of Superbowl VII’s losing quarterback was, and where she was born. I can’t, because I have a “different” favorite team sport: the only one that matters.

            We have literally a houseful of books here; what do you imagine they’re about?

            As for dirty, one of my older friends was shot down and captured by the North Vietnamese. While there, he recalled someone screaming like a damned soul while being tortured, and had to wonder for a while who was making so much noise until he realized it was him.

            The USSR routinely took downed USAF bomber pilots from North Vietnam into Soviet custody, in violation of the Geneva and Hague Conventions that forbid transfer of custody, and none of those men ever returned.

            Do you know why the US finally abandoned napalm as a weapon? Cluster bombs are much more effective. One 1991 Iraqi prisoner said that the first US airstrikes looked intimidating, but they started laughing when the dropped ordnance made only a “thump” sound well above them… “And then Hell opened up”.

            The famous photo of Colonel Nguyen Ngoc Loan executing a captured Vietcong political officer in Hue in 1968 tells only half the story. Some of his neighbors had been murdered by the reds, including German doctor Horst Krainick and his wife, who had worked to establish a medical school at Hue. Their bodies were later found in a field.

          • David Ashton

            That last point is quite important in that the liberal media on the atrocity question omit cause and context if it points adversely towards the “left”. There are some significant cases also from WW2.
            Communist atrocity photos from the Korean and Vietnamese wars have had little publicity compared to certain “iconic” pictures used repeatedly against the US or UN forces, or anti-communist Koreans and Vietnamese.

            Worth a look: (1) Qiang Zhai, “China and the Vietnam Wars, 1950-1975″ (2000). (2) Senator James O. Eastland et al, “The Human Cost of Communism in Vietnam” (1972).

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Don’t be so assuming to think I don’t know Siamese Vietnamese from Han Chinese. Your lack of ability for critical thinking is what is in question. Take a poll, I guarantee nobody here agrees with your thinking on 75% of issues.

            Do you not know much about The Vietnam War? Ever hear of the Ho Chi Minh Trail? Who do you think were providing the bulk of the munitions, supplies, intelligence and strategic counseling to the North and Vietcong? Do you think North Vietnam, on its own procured the military might and support for it on it’s own? And yes, the VC and The North Vietnamese did fight dirty; no doubt much of the hardware they used and the tactics they were taught coming straight from China.

          • JohnEngelman

            Agent Orange and napalm was dirtier than anything the Communists used or did during the War in Vietnam.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            What you just said is that we were the dirty fighters in Vietnam, we were the bad guys. For shame Mr. Engleman. Remember, we weren’t trying to conquer NV, we were trying to prevent the conquest of SV.

          • JohnEngelman

            This is from the Geneva Agreement of 1954, which ended the colonial war between France and the Viet Minh:

            The Conference recognizes that the essential purpose of the agreement relating to Viet-Nam is to settle military questions with a view to ending hostilities and that the military demarcation line should not in any way be interpreted as constituting a political or territorial boundary…

            In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities.
            http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1954-geneva-indochina.html

            If the United States had signed and honored the Geneva Agreement of 1954 the War in Vietnam would not have happened. This is why the United States did not sign that agreement:

            I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader.

            Source: Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mandate for Change, 1953-56 (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Compnay, Inc., 1963), p. 372
            https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/ddeho.htm

            At least two million Vietnamese died because the United States provoked a war to prevent the ascension of a leader the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            We were discussing the Chinese involvement in the war and the tactics of both sides. Now you are arguing about the entire war. OK, well if you want to back pedal fine… I hate The Vietnam War and hate that we were involved and I agree when The French left we should have stayed out of Indochina even if that meant letting China dominate the region. I am not a subscriber to the Cold War doctrine of containment unless it involved Western homelands like Western Europe or North America and Australia. Vietnam, honestly… who cares. Let them be.

          • David Ashton

            “Why, then, did Ho Chi Minh refuse to allow free elections when the results seemingly were so ordained in his favor?” (Arnold Beichman)

          • JohnEngelman

            Ask Ho.

            President Eisenhower said he would have won as much as 80 percent of the vote. 80 percent is not a landslide. It is a blow out.

            Anyway, it was none of our business. Vietnam was unimportant to our economy or our security. We should have left the country alone.

          • josh

            If the Ching-Chongs had it they wouldnt use it because its bad?

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Engleman, you are a liberal progressive. Just admit it. You are trolling. Above you just implied that I am ignorant and racist by suggesting that I thought The US directly fought China in Vietnam and more importantly you mentioned that I might not know the difference between any Asiatic people, making the accusation that I am “racist” and think that all Asians have no value and look completely the same. That is liberal progressive 101; trying to act like your smart by pretending others are stupid, ignorant and best of all racist.

            You are being disingenuous and to me that is far worse than being ignorant.

            You should go spend time convincing Asians that they need more Jewish and high-IQ European immigration to their countries to take up high paying jobs… perhaps you will see there is much more in play here with immigration by seeing that none of them will be perceptive to immigration and multi-culturalism in Asian nations. Maybe you can ask yourself why then, should we… The West be altered and changed by less impressive cultures, especially when nobody else will ever do this? They don’t want China half Chinese, half White and we don’t want Europe and North America half White, half Chinese. Get it?

            Again, I believe you will find other left-leaning sites more to your agreement and liking.

          • Svigor

            I agree, I’ve always despised dishonest people like Engelman. I can tolerate almost anything besides a liar.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            You are a dishonest man. See my post below.

        • Doppleganger

          The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in WW2. It was a military base. Our response was to drop a nuclear bomb on their civilian cities. Are you saying that wasn’t dirty? Where was the honor there? We’re not saints either.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            OK so now you have moved away from Vietnam and Korea to World War II. LOL. Let me ask you this, Truman knew hundreds of thousands of US soldiers would have been killed defeating the Japanese main islands… are you okay with your grandfather dying in Japan in 1947 resulting in your existence never happening? Ya, I didn’t think so but as long as some other American families fathers and sons died fighting in Japan your okay with that. Typical progressive false morality thinker you are.

            And yes, I would have dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was unfortunate in many ways but also saved many many American lives. As the honorable culture of Japan teaches kids in High School; we started it and they ended it.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Japan was given the option of immediate surrender. We were not asking them; we were issuing orders. They refused.

      • David Ashton

        We can obtain reliable information about crime rates in the USA and Europe, not China.

        • JohnEngelman

          China has a low crime rate. Private gun ownership is banned and violent crime is relatively rare. The Chinese are generally very honest. They rarely steal. Tourists sometimes tell stories of leaving behind unwanted clothes in their hotel room only to have an employee at the hotel show up at the airport or train station to return the clothes…

          Text Sources: New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Times of London, National Geographic, The New Yorker, Time, Newsweek, Reuters, AP, Lonely Planet Guides, Compton’s Encyclopedia and various books and other publications.
          http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=302

          • David Ashton

            Western tourist and journalist reports, and official Chinese government statements, are not as significant as uncensored reports from Chinese who have left the mainland or from careful analysis of Chinese internal local reports and broadcasts by Chinese-speakers in Taiwan and HK. When I wrote for the Foreign Affairs Research Association I was aware of the complete difference between Beijing propaganda and the data obtained by careful analysts of local events (like Fr LaDany in HK or “Issues and Studies” in Taipei). There is today evidence of crimes and unrest of all kinds in China, and of severe labor camp punishments, but we cannot know the scale precisely because it is still a closed society in ways that we do not experience in the west.

          • JohnEngelman

            The low crime rate of Chinese immigrants, and their descendants in countries where their crime rate can be accurately measured inclines me to believe that they have a low crime rate in China, and that law obedience is a racial characteristic among the Chinese.

          • David Ashton

            Sterling Seagrave’s “Lords of the Rim” (1996) gave an informed picture of crime, open and concealed, among the Overseas Chinese, with reference to its historic character and its recent impact on, for example, New York.
            US Homeland Security recently reported the arrest of over two dozen Chinese typically engaged in home invasions, alien smuggling, credit card fraud, violent crime and importing illegal drugs of various kinds from mainland China.
            Dr Yumin Wang has reported that illegal Chinese immigrants are found to engage in various criminal activities on an increasing scale in the USA.
            Dr James Fickenauer has reported on the Fuk Ching as an example of “Chinese Transnational Organized Crime” for the NIJ International Center/UN crime prevention program: “Violence is a defining characteristic of Chinese criminal gangs”.
            James Areddy reported last year on the way increasing crime and violence, inside China, admitted by the criminologist Prof. Pi Yijun, is kept quiet in the press (accessible to westerners).
            The US government warns tourists against petty thieves and pickpockets, unexpected police searches, and violent demonstrations; “Some incidents have become large-scale and involved criminal activity, including hostage taking and vandalism”.

            The capacity of the “docile” Chinese for cruelty, violence and mob rage was well illustrated by events during the so-called “Cultural Revolution”.

          • JohnEngelman

            I have not argued that Chinese never commit crimes, but I have argued, using Jared Taylor and J. Philippe Rushton as authorities, that they have a lower crime rate than whites.

            The Germans and Japanese demonstrated a capacity “for cruelty, violence and mob rage,” during the Second World War.

            Currently the murder rate in Germany, Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore is much lower than it is in the United States.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

          • David Ashton

            According to Jeffrey Hays (updated on-line, April 2012), criminal gangs are found throughout China. Numbers in organized crime have risen from around 100,000 in 1986 to 1.5 million in 2002, many recruited from the floating population of unemployed. They are active in snake-head trafficking [reaches us in Britain], armed robbery, racketeering, narcotics, prostitution, gambling [a Chinese weakness] and contract murder. Some gangs are former Red Guards from the “Cultural Revolution” which was an internally stimulated set of civil conflicts, unlike WW2. In December 2008 it was bad enough for Beijing to set up a new special police agency. Of course, local communist party officials are occasionally closely involved in crime and corruption. You have no way of estimating for certain the Chinese mainland murder rate since this is not yet a free country comparable to others mentioned.
            As for Germany, the crime rate dropped during the Nazi era except for a minor rise in juvenile delinquency at the outbreak of war. The Germans have always showed a disciplined industriousness marginally greater than that of most other European peoples. But crime rates are due to other factors than just genetic inheritance, although we need not follow all the “non-existent” Cultural Marxist theories to which I previously referred in a “non-existent” reading-list for you on the AmRen site.

          • JohnEngelman

            When I did an internet search for China + Crime + “Jeffrey Hayes” I found this: “China has a low crime rate. Private gun ownership is banned and violent crime is relatively rare. The Chinese are generally very honest. They rarely steal. Tourists sometimes tell stories of leaving behind unwanted clothes in their hotel room only to have an employee at the hotel show up at the airport or train station to return the clothes.”

            http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=302

            Because the Chinese have low crime rates wherever they live, and high IQs. I expect China to dominate the world by the end of this century. China also benefits by not having large minority populations of races and hybrid races that are characterized by high crime rates and low IQs.

            I do not predict and I certainly do not advocate that China conquer the world. I do predict that China will enjoy the world domination the United States did during the twentieth century.

            China’s main problems are over population, and the imbalance of young men over young women that is caused by their coercive one child policy. Nevertheless, the Japanese and the Taiwanese are experiencing a decline in population without government coercion. I believe the Chinese can do the same.

            My hopes are that when China dominates the world it will have adopted a democratic government, and that it will defend Israel against the Arabs. The United States, however reduced in stature, will continue to exist, and American support for Israel will probably continue to exist.

            Israel does not need foreign troops to protect it, only foreign military and financial support. When the Arabs run out of oil Israeli survival will be assured, because the Jews have the most important natural resource of all.

          • David Ashton

            I suggest readers also do the same China & Crime internet search and read ALL of Hays’ report, including the second paragraph following your quote. The US Government has warned visitors against thieves, bag-snatchers and pickpockets. I do not suggest the average Chinese is less honest than the average white American, but question your glorification of their society.
            You expect China to dominate the world, recommend that white countries absorb its overpopulation, regard the Chinese as superior to everyone except the Jews, propose no resistance to their “world domination” but instead urge western children to learn the (inferior) language of their future overlords.
            Your hope that China will defend precious little Israel against the Arabs is not supported by Chinese policy hitherto. However, I suspect US neo-cons will try to encourage diversionary conflict between China and the Muslim world, similar to medieval policies (“Prester John” &c).

          • josh

            Yes,natural gas.And they own the water,too.

          • JohnEngelman

            What matters is IQ.

          • David Ashton

            Not all that matters. Depends how it is used, for a start.
            Humans are not just calculating robots without cultural attachments, emotions and beliefs.
            The alleged “slight” IQ advantage (Dr Michael Hart) of Chinese over Europeans is not dangerous if western minds unite.

            “[US] National population growth is associated with the increase in the number of undocumented Chinese. Social security has worsened because more Chinese illegal aliens are found engaging in various kinds of criminal activity. The problem is likely to deteriorate in the future because…more and more Chinese are being smuggled into the country” (Prof. Yumin R Wang).

            “Now censors have allowed millions of Chinese readers to download some of the most graphic stories of mass killings unleashed by the Communist Party on its people…. ‘It shows why our young generation must be careful with the future or our society will suffer a great regression,’ said Mao Yushi, a highly regarded academic.” (London Sunday Times, November 25, p.28)

            A nation more admirable than ours?

          • Svigor

            The monomania typical of Aspies and other non-neurotypical people. Engelman shows every indication of being non-neurotypical; an obsession with single a single psychometric to the exclusion of everything else, an inability to see people as human beings, an inability to engage in a normal conversation, etc.

          • josh

            To be fair I do recall a story I read–forgot where–about crime among the gamblers of China. These guys did seem a whole lot less given to violence & brutality. Maybe Chinese are less violent,overall, than the white race. Great! But I repeat my prev post:Just because they may be less likely to engage in the brutal acts that the NAM do,is that any reason to flood our country with them,and see them steal with breifcases,as per Vito Corleone?

          • josh

            Not only is he Chinese ,but now I am beginning to suspect that he is not some Bitter Asian Man with too much time on his hands,I think he actually works for the Chinese government!

          • josh

            Remember when you had that earthquake and that elementary school crumpled like a house of cards,killing many kids?Uhmm,was that a crime,building it in such a shoddy fashion in an area where earthquakes are hardly unknown?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/NQHEAYZCMBOERHG2VZRDQ3YUSQ Felix

      “‘Ethnic targeting to arouse feelings of obligations is the single most distinctive feature of PRC [Peoples Republic of China] intelligence operations . . .’

      Kind of like the way you-know-who recruited Jonathon Pollard and the other spies that are still riddled throughout the country.

  • Smedley Butler

    GM outsources American jobs to China.
    So no big surprise.

  • Germanacus

    Highly recommend they put their superior Asian IQs to work and stop stealing White technology. Unless of course their IQs don’t tell the entire story with regard to intelligence.

  • i am

    My engineering class is full of Chinese. They are also some of the first to get picked for top university transfers do to the extended diversity program. I have no doubt they will get hired by diversity enriched American corporations, and send their technology back to China. I can assure you of one thing. They think Americans are idiots to give away their technology to foreigner, and they are right.

    • NYB

      They also think we are idiots for giving away our land.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/NQHEAYZCMBOERHG2VZRDQ3YUSQ Felix

        And, again, they are right.

  • elreyjones

    Hang them but first we need laws to legally torture these foreign scum.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jesse-Peterson/100003526607299 Jesse Peterson

      Just send them to Tibet and let the natives do the work.

    • Greg Thomas

      Hang them for stealing GM trade secrets? As far as I am concerned, GM got exactly what it deserved when they hired Chinese nationals ( yeah, I know it says they are “US citizens,” but I do not consider them as such) and entrusted them with trade
      secrets. I have no pity for GM, nor the Chinese criminals. Let them do their prison time and then deport them back to China where they belong, never to return to this country.

      • NYB

        GM enthusiastically sold the technology to build modern auto assembly lines to China back in the 1980’s. GM is still huge in China, selling over a million vehicles in 2011 with its Chinese joint-venture partner.

        The problem is, once you get in bed with the Chinese, they don’t stop taking. They want to someday dominate the U.S. market with Chinese-made import autos, effectively putting U.S. auto workers out to pasture.

        • Greg Thomas

          The chinese are like all the other third-world “immigrants.” Once you give them something, they never stop asking for more. If you do not give it to them, they will simply take it. Illegal invading mexicans are yet another example. They come here in violation of our laws, as well as sovereignty,and yet have the audacity to make demands. They simply take what we will not give them through sheer numbers.

          Of course, there are plenty of White traitors willing to appease them. As we well know, the demands never stop because we are now perceived as weak. Once the White man gives in to such demands,
          he has relegated himself to endless demands for more. That’s how it works with the third world.

          • Doppleganger

            The Chinese (and Asians in general) are the only minority in the U.S. that has pulled itself up largely without Federal assistance. Does that sound like all other third world immigrants? I don’t think so.

          • SmithandSmith

            asians get much more minority privilege than the blacks and hispanics. You really should do some research.

          • Doppleganger

            What “minority privilege” is that? Asians don’t benefit from affirmative action. It actually hurts them.

          • SmithandSmith

            It’s everywhere. The white house initiative on asians, the mbda, sba, banks (wells fargo leads the way with their five billion dollar set-aside for ONLY asians), school loans, diversity supplier program, asian grocers’ association, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

            Affirmative action is for everyone except white men and asians are not white men. You could always prove me wrong and actually supply proof but you don’t. Now why is that? So much for honest asians…

            I understand you asians and your white asian lovers are desperate to trick white people into believing y’all are great and fair but it just ain’t true and everyone, including you asians and your lovers, know it.

          • Doppleganger

            Take College Admissions. If the process were completely race-blind, Asian enrollment would increase about 5 times. Whites admission would stay similar or decrease, and there would be almost no blacks, hispanics, or other minorities.

            Asian-Americans are compared against each other at an even higher standard than Whites are, and it’s long been suspected that some schools (e.g., the Ivy League) have quotas on Asian enrollment. Affirmative Action actually protects Whites from losing spots to Asians, but it would be hard for you to realize because you’re too busy playing the victim.

          • josh

            We ARE victims of immigration.

          • Doppleganger

            The U.S. maintains a competitive edge in large part by attracting many of the world’s best to come here. This diversity has made it easier to do business with other nations abroad. To say that immigration hasn’t brought any benefit is demonstrably false. Unlike America, East Asian countries (including China) don’t market themselves necessarily being open, or tolerant, and they live with the pros and cons of that decision too.

          • SmithandSmith

            The number of college admissions for asians would drop significantly if affirmative action didn’t exist. You really have a problem with the truth don’t ya?

            asians have no standards and that’s why you people flock to WHITE Countries the way y’all do and it’s why your asian countries are all still third worlds and it’s why asians have a huge cheating problem. Well, to be fair, cheating isn’t a problem for asians because y’all have no ethics.

            Your definition of affirmative action (protecting whites) is the most ridiculous one I’ve heard yet and it shows me how truly desperate you are. Well, this and the fact that you completely ignored all the asian privilege I gave you when you asked for it.

            As for your “playing the victim”, it’s not the white people who have privileges for being white like you asians do and speaking of “playing the victim”, how about addressing those samples of asian privilege I provided for you, you the asian that is supposed to be so much better than us white people…

            asians do nothing but play the victim hence all those privileges they must have because they were….they need….. asians are always playing some card whether it’s the victim card, the race card or the culture card, they play whatever works in their quest for getting as much tax payer funded asian privilege as they possibly can.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jesse-Peterson/100003526607299 Jesse Peterson

    Chinese don’t invent, they steal. So much for their “high” IQ’s.

    • i am

      To me, creativity (inventing) is the sign of intelligence, and not high IQ numbers. I find there are intelligent people along most of the IQ spectrum except the at the extreme ends (high and low). I have know and worked with people who have an extremely high IQ, but they are almost useless to (a properly functioning) society.

      • Svigor

        I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss high yellow mean IQ so completely. They do tend to be more law-abiding and conscientious than whites. But, as you suggest, that doesn’t change the fact that whites create societies that yellows prefer to their own, and that whites created 98% of everything worth talking about.

      • David Ashton

        The Bell Curve of the Chinese and the White Americans may differ. A creativity index may be more relevant than a problem-SOLVING index. Historically, see Charles Murray, “Human Accomplishment” (2003) pp.398-9. The nature of Mandarin and Indo-European language is significantly different. There are also reported structural differences between Europid and Mongolid brains. By no means irrelevant is the cultural difference symbolized by Spengler in the contrast between the Western spire/skyscraper and the Far Eastern walled garden. There is no advantage in transferring military end-use technology to Beijing as happened with Moscow as was conclusively documented by A.C.Sutton. Transferring John Engelman to Beijing, however, might please everyone.

        • Svigor

          I think it has more to do with conformity than IQ. Being willing to go against the group has little to do with IQ, per se. It has more to do with conformity, or lack thereof. I think creativity is interwoven with non-conformity; creativity is non-conformist.

          • David Ashton

            We agree on this. Of course, conformity supposedly helps social peace.
            But I suspect Lynn and Rushton use IQ samples that may not accurately reflect the peasant masses in the interior of China and its racially related neighbors, though there are Chinese statistics recently available. The fringes on both sides of the Pacific may reflect the higher average levels that sometimes typify migrants. The Nationalists took an elite group with them to Taiwan. The estimated Chinese IQ average is not much higher than that of white Anglo-Saxons, but their advantage lies in the total population numbers.

        • josh

          You mean sending him home? I’m for that!

      • pcmustgo

        What is the difference between intelligence and high IQ?

        • Svigor

          Intelligence is the thing IQ is intended to measure; the difference is similar to the difference between other scores (e.g., SAT) and intelligence.

    • Doppleganger

      China didn’t have the wealth or political stability to carry out research until the last 30 years or so. Don’t overlook that. Also, every country conducts espionage. It’s not just the Chinese. They’re just the ones who get the most press.

      • josh

        No! Only our enemies commit espionage against us.NOT our friends,like,say,oh I dont know,…Israel.

  • IstvanIN

    When you have a country of assimilated immigrants their first loyalties will always be to “my country”, as they put. I know, I live in occupied NJ. This isn’t their country. It is a place to live. Perhaps a place to conquer but the America we know, Anglo-America, white America, will never be their America. My God, “Italians” still refer to themselves as Italian and they have never left Staten Island, although their loyalty is unquestionable. It takes time to digest racially similar but ethnically different immigrant groups. It becomes impossible to digest immigrants when the immigrants never stop coming. In the past we have always had time-outs. This time it is an avalanche that never stops, crushing all in its path. And the avalanche isn’t just snow this time, it is full of rocks and tree limbs that will never melt into the pool that was America.

    They are not us and can never be.

    • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

      Excellent points. On Nov. 30, Steve Sailer at Vdare.com shared some emailed he’d received as to why Asians vote heavily Democratic. Excerpting:

      America has lost the cultural self-confidence to assimilate immigrants.

      * * *

      At one time, American society was overtly assimilationist (and proud of it). Immigrants were encouraged (pressured, coerced, etc.) to join the mainstream. Rather than retaining their native cultures, values, and ideas they were told to adopt everything American. Indeed, the American definition of assimilation required the immigrant to give up all things “foreign” other than his religion and his last name (even that had to go in some cases).

      * * *

      Conversely, American society today is very overtly anti-assimilationist. The new ideology is “diversity” (as in “celebrate diversity”) where each person is strongly encouraged to define him or herself in opposition to the mainstream. That makes voting for the left inevitable and inexorable.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/L3V4YPBTV7424CQSU24ZVJYFVY RIchard

      >When you have a country of unassimilated immigrants their first loyalties will always be to “my country”, as they put.

      I agree with that, a lot of first generation immigrants move here and seek to replicate their homeland. They even settle together in tiny enclaves.

      I think what you’re not realizing is that although many immigrants refuse to assimilate, their children and children’s children are much more likely to. I know a lot of second and third generation immigrants and they identify much more strongly as American. Even my friend that moved to the states (legally) when he was 9 identifies as an American.

      As long as the rest of the world holds our culture in the esteem that it does, I honestly don’t think we’ll have much of a problem with integration, although I must admit Islamo-facism presents a very interesting hurdle. I think as they come to realize the freedoms allowed by American culture they will eventually turn their back on tradition. It hasn’t happened in Europe yet, but give it a generation or two. I remember meeting some Saudi dudes out drinking and all they could talk about was how much they loved booze and pornography.

  • potato78

    old story again and again for brain wash purpose.

  • IKantunderstand

    NO MORE IMMIGRATION from anywhere. Gee, call me crazy, but it would appear that all the inventions by Americans , turned out to be by White Americans, you know , what we used to think of as regular Americans. I don’t care that Asians have higher I.Q.s than Whites. What the hell have they ever done with their higher I.Q.s? Take advantage of Whites! That’s what. They need to go. The little squat Mexicans need to go. The Sikhs need to go. Actually, all Indians need to go. And, most especially, those exemplars of scientific progress, without whom the United States space proram could not have existed: Muslims. Yeah, right, Obama, give me a break. Remove the seventh century titans of science from our midst. Seriously, I think we will survive without the titans of Muslim scientific theory. I know, I know, you disagree. But then, that’s probably because you think the Luo wrote the Ninth Symphony and discovered the theory of relativity.

  • Nobody

    At an Ivy League school where I obtained my Ph.D. in engineering in 1990s, the Chinese national grad students had a cheating system, mainly based on shared prior class work of other Chinese nationals.

    Trusting Midwesterner that I was, I would never have noticed it if it hadn’t been pointed out to me by a Jewish student and a Chinese student who wasn’t part of the Chinese clique.

    It’s said that the Chinese have 3000 years of experience in taking civil service examinations.

    That means they have 3000 years of experience in cheating at civil service examinations.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/NQHEAYZCMBOERHG2VZRDQ3YUSQ Felix

      Many east Asians in Academia share a cheating system with their co-ethnics. It is very common. Whites needs to ditch the PC/Judaeo-Christian shi’ite. Other people are using it to hoodwink them.

      • Svigor

        Indeed, this gets back to what I’ve been telling Engelman and his fellow “cognitive elitists” for years: I’d rather do what smart folks do, than do what smart folks tell me to do. This is pretty obviously common sense.

        And smart folks don’t do “cognitive elitism.” They reject it utterly. Smart folks don’t do universalist egalitarian tolerance. They reject it. They don’t do “anti-racism” and self-abnegation. They reject them.

      • pcmustgo

        EAST INDIANS TOO! I’VE WATCHED THEM DO IT!

    • iam

      I have noticed the same thing in my engineering classes. They all have the previous years exams from other Chinese students. The real funny thing is they still can’t pass.

      • Doppleganger

        If they can’t pass, then where are all these Chinese engineers coming from? Unless you’re wrong.

    • Svigor

      Scoring well on a test will not create a new innovation, or improve society in general.

    • Doppleganger

      Ever since there was testing, there’s also been cheating. People of all races cheat. It isn’t exclusive to the Chinese.

      • Nobody

        So?

      • Svigor

        Anybody who trots out the “I never heard of rates” innumeracy in HBD circles should be shunned. There’s no excuse for being this ignorant and opening your mouth instead of your ears and eyes. People who don’t even know the basics of what they’re talking about should just keep quiet.

  • The Bogeyman

    Why would they need to steal GM technology when GM has been willfully giving it to the Chinese for over a decade?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

  • Achaean

    For those who like and welcome Chinese, or “high IQ” Orientals generally, the Western world amounts to no more than an immigrant culture wherein dutiful citizens find high paying jobs and avoid a criminal record. My experience, and reading of Chinese history, tells me that they have a hyper ethnocentric attachment to their Han race and Chinese culture. There is a common term, Huáyì, which refers to Chinese ethnics living
    outside of China, and it means that China claims the loyalty of all those persons who are of Chinese ethnicity or descent, regardless of citizenship and language. The overseas Chinese around the world number close to 60 million people, forming a far-flung Diaspora that extends from San Francisco to Singapore. With an estimated wealth of more than US$1.5 trillion, they are said to be the third-largest economy in the world after the GNPs of the United States and Japan. The wealthy overseas-Chinese network has been nicknamed variously as “Lords of the (Pacific) Rim”, “The New Asian Emperors” and the “Offshore Economic Empire”. Journalist and China expert James McGregor
    wrote in the Washington Post: “Chinese officials and business executives are obsessed with a single question: What advantage do I have over you?”

    Canada and Australia are now populated with Chinese “migrants” who think in these terms. It is delusional and plainly cultural Marxist to welcome Asians into our homelands. They are out to dominate the naive, effeminate Western world, and ultimately they are a far bigger threat than the Bantus who nevertheless are dragging down the West, and indeed will create the opening at the top for the Asians to take over.

    • David Ashton

      Engelman says: “Lovely. Let it happen.” The rest of us: “Don’t surrender.”

  • Achaean

    There is no comparison between the achievements of whites and Asians. Interesting article in TOO, “Where is the historic West?” (in 5 parts, with part 3 published today) traces the incomparable geographical creativity of the West from prehistoric to recent times. Ancient Greece alone accomplished more in philosophy than China and Japan and Korea did in their entire history. The Greeks invented geometry, prose writing, history writing, dialectics, and the scientific method. Almost all the high culture of the world, in literature, painting, music, philosophy is a Western creation. All the disciplines taught in our universities — no the trashy Marxist/feminist stuff of recent years — but the science disciplines, Chemistry, Biology, Paleontology, Archaeology, etc are Western. All the greatest explorers in history are European. The Jews were the beneficiaries of Western creativity; outside the West, non-Whites barely achieve anything worthwhile.

    • Svigor

      I think it’s a good idea to be consistent, i.e., refer to yellows and whites, or Asians and Europeans, and not mix as you have with “whites” and “Asians.”

  • IstvanIN

    Remember, everyone blaming what;s left of GM for this: in the US it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of “national origin”: aka: you can not give Americans first dibs on American jobs.

    In NJ far too many civil positions go to foreigners from India and Nigeria. You know, the people who come here to add to the economy. Our anti-discrimination laws do discriminate: against Americans.

  • ageofknowledge

    The Chinese have already stolen about 90% of America’s IP. They are just scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point as they have almost all of it already.

    • Michael_C_Scott

      That’s like Doritos. We’ll make more. Even Saddam Hussein liked Doritos. It’s a pity he didn’t get to try my soft fish tacos before his own people hanged him for murder.

  • SFLBIB

    They should have left them alone. GM makes some of the worst vehicles on the planet, and stealing their secrets can only hurt China.

    • Doppleganger

      China’s own auto industry is relatively young. GM isn’t great, but still better than what they currently have domestically. Right now, almost everything China does involves upgrading or modernizing something. They’re trying to make up for lost time and get to the leading edge. By drawing expertise from the major automakers, they can develop their own brands and reach international parity sooner.

    • Michael_C_Scott

      GM made Saturns, and I still love the older Saturns.

      • SFLBIB

        A friend at work had one of the first ones, and he said it was a turkey.

  • magician

    If they wanted to steal automobile technology information their best bet could have been Italy or Germany

    • Doppleganger

      Nah, they’d probably get inspiration from the Japanese first. Better quality and closer to home.

  • Witch

    When people discuss the avg IQ by nations, the average IQ of USA includes the IQ of African Americans who should be roughly 20% of the entire population in USA

    • Doppleganger

      African Americans are roughly 15% of the US population. Whites still make up the majority at 70% of the country, so whatever the average American IQ was measured at can’t be far off from the real number.

      • DudeWheresMyCountry?

        70% no way. Maybe in 1987.

      • Svigor

        Blacks were roughly 12% of the population, last I heard, and if anything that share should have fallen since then, not risen.

    • DudeWheresMyCountry?

      Also, could you imagine if they had an IQ number that included the huge sample of China, including the countless sprawling villages of Chinese serfs? It would plummet. To say Chinese people are smarter than any Western countries White populace is laughable. Look at the results. Scoreboard!

  • sandy truthtree

    go to collapsereport and read the H-1B articles for the backstory on how american companies are importing 600,000 foreign workers a year and then wonder why they collapse…

  • pcmustgo

    Xiang Dong Yu,
    Yu Qin,
    I hate Asians names even more than I dislike Blacks names… seriously….

    • pcmustgo

      Although I don’t dislike all of Black’s names off-hand… just the really stupid ones… “Precious”, etc.

    • Michael_C_Scott

      How about “Sayaka Nakano Scott”?

      She called me today that she went back to her old school and her sensei tried her with the boken version of the naginata. Sayaka charged her teacher, tripped him with with the butt of his own naginata and hers and then threw the poor guy 20 feet one way and his niginata 20 feet the other way. Sayaka also broke several bones in the instep of his left foot, and gave him a minor concussion.

      We play.at kendo here for her own self-respect. Sayaka forgot that she was teaching me the same skills. I prefer empty hands against swords or the naginata.

      When we spar at kendo with me unarmed, Sayaka’s afraid of my hands; anything I can grab that wouldn’t have an edge, she doesn’t get back. She can sometimes get me, but she tripped up her old sensei like meat on the table.

      Asian names are in many different varieties. I like and understand Japanese, and for every Yu Qin you detest, there’s a Masamichi Azuma I taught to shoot.

  • Michael_C_Scott

    Perhaps at this point you would like to know why I married a Japanese lady. I wanted the mother of my children to be better balanced in the head than I am.

    • josh

      Not a high bar to set!

  • john

    Recall the violent fanatic hate filled demonstrations when a white girl posetd a harmless youtube video making fun of the Chinese and their helicopter mommys.The white girl–the frigging AMERICAN-had to leave the college under massive death threats. The college president of course couldnt kowtow fast enough and low enough to the nutcase needle-penis Chinese. Goddamn you Chinaphiles and damn this rotten lousy stinking immigration!!!