Study Examines Achievement Gap Between Asian American, White Students

Monte Morin, Los Angeles Times, May 5, 2014

A growing achievement gap between Asian American students and their white classmates is due largely to greater work effort and cultural attitudes, not innate cognitive ability, researchers say.

In a study published Monday in the journal PNAS, two sociology professors found that Asian Americans enter school with no clear academic edge over whites, but that an advantage grows over time.

Even if they come from poorer, less educated families, Asian Americans significantly outperform white students by fifth grade, authors wrote.

“What accounts for Asians’ greater academic effort than whites?” asked study authors Amy Hsin of Queens College in New York and Yu Xie of the University of Michigan.

“Asian and Asian American youth are harder working because of cultural beliefs that emphasize the strong connection between effort and achievement,” the authors wrote. “Studies show that Asian and Asian American students tend to view cognitive abilities as qualities that can be developed through effort, whereas white Americans tend to view cognitive abilities as qualities that are inborn.”

However, the study authors say the high performance of Asian American students comes at a cost.

“Studies show that Asian American youth are less psychologically adjusted and socially engaged in school than their white peers. They may experience more conflict in relationships with parents because of the high educational expectations their parents place on them,” authors wrote.

The researchers based their conclusions on a review of standardized test scores, teacher evaluations, immigration status, socio-demographic factors and grade point average.

The information included two national longitudinal studies. One of them followed 1,368 white and 244 Asian students from kindergarten through eighth grade, while the other followed 2,787 white and 745 Asian high school sophomores for two years.

Prior studies have found that Asian Americans get higher grades and score higher on standardized test scores when compared to white students. They are also more likely to finish high school and attend college.

Previous explanations for this phenomenon have included family socio-demographic characteristics, natural cognitive skills and academic effort.

The authors wrote that family wealth was not a factor in performance.


Similarly, there was no convincing evidence that the reason was genetic. While Asian Americans might test higher than whites in cognitive ability around age 2, that edge eroded by the time the children entered school, authors wrote.

The answer, the authors wrote, appeared to be a matter of motivation and work ethic.

“Qualities such as attentiveness, self-control, motivation and persistence may be as important as cognitive abilities in positively affecting academic performance,” the authors wrote. “Asian American parents may engage in parenting practices that better cultivate these qualities that, in turn, enable their children’s academic success.”


Asian American students scored lower than whites in terms of positive feelings toward themselves, and spent less time with friends compared to white peers.

“Asian Americans continue to occupy a complicated position in a racially stratified United States,” the study authors wrote. “They are simultaneously recognized for their work ethic and intelligence and marginalized for seeming less patriotic and civically engaged. Their ‘outsider’ status may undercut their achievement success and prevent their full integration into American society.”

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  • The NAEP results are out, and it shows that while there’s a significant Asian over white gap in math exams among high school seniors, there’s a discernable white over Asian gap in verbal exams.

    As an childhood math prodigy, I love(d) my math well enough, but as I got older, I realized that both personally and for society and civilization, verbal skills are more crucial.

    I’ll put it to you this way: I just drove home today, from the state capital in Jefferson City to St. Louis, after four months being there almost that whole time doing a job where the most complicated math I had to do was simple arithmetic.

    • So CAL Snowman

      Whites built the V2, the Saturn V, the Space Shuttle, Skylab, Mir, and successfully landed multiple rovers on the surface of mars. What have the Asians done that is even remotely comparable? Our knowledge and use of mathematics far surpasses that of the Asians.

      • That’s my point. Math skills without verbal skills is like bricks without mortar.

  • crystalevans

    Asian parents see education as the path to the middle class. They want their children to become professionals so they encourage them to take STEM majors or major in Medicine, Law or Dentistry. The parents are upset if their children major in theatre, music or art because it does not lead to a high paying job. Asian parents also fork out money so that their children can take SAT prep classes to get a higher SAT score to get in to a competitive college.

    • APaige

      Cheating is also an acceptable means to achieve

  • D.B. Cooper

    SO WHAT??
    My own test scores across the board are much higher than the average Asian. Reading, math, science, history, and even martial arts; I have them beat.
    I am not the least bit intimidated. If YOU are intimidated by the white-Asian gap, white boy, then open a book, or at least watch Discovery Channel.

    • tetrapod

      Bravo! And you might add, when you’re not watching the Discovery Channel, turn off the leftist propaganda sewage pump TV, unplug the effing Xbox, and make your fat kids get some exercise and read a book once in a while.

    • LHathaway

      “Reading, math, science, history, and even martial arts; I have them beat”.

      lol, you’re doing a lot for the cause of showing your intelligence. . (sarcasm off).

    • Alexandra1973

      When I was in school there was the Michigan Educational Assessment Program (MEAP). Students are tested in science, math, and English.

      In 4th grade my scores for English and math were 96%. In grades 7 and 10, they were 100%.

      As diverse as my high school was, it was primarily Whites and Jews with the high scores (plenty of Jews there and my best friend in high school was a Jew whose parents fit the miserly stereotype).

  • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

    A factor John Derbyshire mentioned in his address to the 2014 American Renaissance conference may explain part of the white-Asian difference. Paraphrasing: Rebelliousness may have been bred out of ancestral Chinese populations, leaving a more conformist, docile modern Chinese population that tends to do what the teacher/parent says.

    • Bossman

      East Asians are highly conformist, docile, and have an inscrutable demeanor. They may be better learners as a way to compensate for their other deficiencies. For example, I heard and read that East Asians are highly intolerant of alcohol; they never turn red in the face except when they drink alcohol, then they turn very red. That is just one deficiency, there could be many others. Also their very tedious alphabet requires them to learn thousand of symbols; that alone could have an effect on their brains and their ability to manipulate abstract symbols.

      • DudeWheresMyCountry?

        Excuses. If the world was truly every race for itself and itself only, Chinese people would be living in 1000 AD forever. White people, if not brought down by non-Whites would be colonizing Mars.

  • Frank_DeScushin

    Why is it that when Asians succeed at higher rates academically than whites it’s due to work ethic and cultural attitudes, but when whites succeed at higher rates academically than blacks it’s definitely NOT due to work ethic and cultural attitudes according to the prevailing Liberal narrative? Instead, the white success is due to affluence, white privilege, and institutional racism.

    Racial egalitarians don’t even try to tie together their lies. They know that many Americans are too dumb to put the pieces together, many other Americans are too cowed by the R-word to say anything, and the remainder of Americans who do point out the incongruities of the Liberal narrative can be marginalized as racists by the press.

    • Garrett Brown

      Seems like whites are declining in education because of culture change (decline) that only applies to white. Blacks and browns on TV are dragging our young people down. Music, film, etc.

  • JohnEngelman

    For two thousand years the imperial exam system in China selected for intelligence more vigorously than any comparable system or phenomenon in Europe.

    I would be surprised if higher test scores for Chinese Americans, and better academic performance are not at least in part due to innate differences. People tend to spend more time in areas where they have talent.

    • So CAL Snowman

      So why did the White race produce the mathematical geniuses that developed calculus, Issac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz, instead of the Chinese?

      • JohnEngelman

        The imperial exam system emphasized the study and mastery of classic literature written over two thousand years ago.

        • DudeWheresMyCountry?

          A Chinese library can’t hold a candle to a single shelf of European classics.

          • Black Swan

            Music too.

          • JohnEngelman

            Visit a public library in the United States in or near Chinatown after schools let out. You will find that it is full of Chinese American students doing their homework.

            Visit the collegiate library of one of America’s most prestigious universities. You will find the same thing.

          • Anna Tree

            Yes: they study our books, we wrote them.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Are you fawning over little China girls again? This isn’t Thailand, you might get in trouble.

      • foundingstockcracker

        And of course, Scientific Laws. For example Kepler, who actually went to Newton for help on the math.

      • Einsatzgrenadier

        Let’s hypothesize that the Chinese really are smarter than whites. Now let’s generate some predictions based on this hypothesis and see how well this holds up to the available empirical evidence. If the Chinese were smarter than whites, they would have been the largest contributors to global scientific and technological development. If the Chinese were smarter than whites, we would be living in a Chinese world, instead of a European one. If the Chinese were smarter than whites, the majority of Nobel prize winners would be Chinese. If Chinese were smarter than whites, their societies would be the most desirable places to live and whites would be mass immigrating to China.

        How do these assumptions hold up to reality? They don’t. Instead, the Chinese have contributed very little to the global development of science and technology, the Europeans are the architects of the modern world, most Nobel prize winners are white and China is a third world hellhole that’s worse than much of Latin America. There is no credible evidence of an east Asian cognitive advantage over whites. Lynn’s research demonstrating an east Asian cognitive advantage is to be rejected because of how incredibly methodologically flawed it is. Based on the evidence, it would appear to be the case that the Chinese have lower IQs than Europeans, rather than higher. American Oriental achievement is the result of selective immigration policy and the Oriental tendency to work harder in order to achieve more, despite lower ability levels.

        • LHathaway

          You’ve taken a line, that is the conclusion to your piece (asian’s immigrating to america are the cream of their crop – a line of thinking that you most likely did not come up with yourself), and somehow created a lengthy, shrill, annoying piece around that idea that sounds a bit like what a baboon might be thinking, if it’s thoughts were put into words. Or an Ostarich with his head in the sand, attempting to give a lecture with his head still underground.

          Your brow-beating prefacing that effective line sounds a bit like whites who once claimed we had little to fear from black or hispanic immigration. They are all so dumb and ignorant, we have nothing to fear from these non-achieving primitive blacks and hispanics. It’s a song and dance that’s getting old. About as familiar as the captain of the Titanic, going on about how everything is going to be OK and there is nothing to worry about.

          If you really are obsessed with putting Engelman in his place, raise your game. You could do that by facing at least some sort of reality. By the way, going on about white greatness in antiquity and ‘great’ ‘white’ libraries, beyond sounding absurd, and reeking of, not knowledge, but testosterone, will do nothing to save whites from their oncoming demographic destiny. Such tales will certainly do nothing to prevent whites from becoming gay. Nothing at all. At least not the way you tell the tale. Then again, maybe the average white does have about the mentality, and mental capacity, as a local MMA fighter. Carry on.

        • SlizzardAjeosshi

          Sorry if I intrude into your convo, this is my first post on Amren and I do not want to leave a bad impression. I am person with a very keen interest in racial differences and anthropology. I currently reside in HK where I work for a Taiwanese company. I am also married to a S. Korean woman and I am ¾ Italian of various regional ancestries and ¼ Hungarian Ashkenazi (pure matrilineal descent).

          This to say I kinda observe the whole issue from several points of view: the race realist and the race traitor, the Goy and the Jewish, the Asian and the European one.

          First off let me say I do understand the rationale behind your rant as it is really frustrating for decent white folk watching a mainstream media incessantly praising the achievements of every other group except their own.

          Said so, allow me to say you guys are cherry-picking facts a little bit. First of all you are comparing the richest white country (America) with the poorest n.e. Asian one

          The former is a nation which retains incommensurable advantages in terms of mineral wealth, agricultural
          output, water, land etc. In America both the white and the oriental
          race are reaching their maximum potential.

          On the other hand China is a gargantuan overcrowded entity that has only very recently started to recover from a few centuries of disastrous decline, after millennia of splendour in terms of scientific achievements.

          It would be like observing Europe in the year 1100 AD, not a particularly nice view. If we switch our focus to other white
          and asian nations: specifically Europe and Japan+the 4 original
          tigers (HK. S’pore, Taiwan and S.Korea) I am not sure the former
          group is in any way a preferable alternative to the latter.

          While I will promptly concede that people of North Western European ancestry have invented the modern world during an incredible 3 centuries-long expansion , Southern and Eastern Europe lagged severely and if it wasn’t for the progress of
          the Nordics they would still be stuck in the medieval times. On the
          other hand the early modernisers in Asia enjoy now a technological, scientific and financial level of wealth and innovation that is on par or superior to Europe.

          All these countries quite frankly put the likes of Italy, Spain etc. to shame and if we go above the Alps they still hold their ground pretty well. I would really invite you guys to live for a while in both Europe and say, Singapore or Korea and then compare. Are you 100% positive Seoul doesn’t compare favourably to Berlin, London or Paris ? Or that Singapore is behind Austria or Belgium ? I kid you not but when I fly back to any European capital for business, it does feel like I’ve taken a time machine to some 1960’s goofball Louis de Funes type of reality.

          You’re honestly also a bit simplistic about rural China and the level of Asian academics. Yes the countryside of the Mainland is
          very poor but they’re rapidly changing and honestly they don’t really look anything worse than many places in Eastern Europe. Have you ever been to rural Hungary or Croatia ? I did and, sorry if I repeat myself, it does not make for a nice experience. If we had to judge the achievements of the white race from those places, Euros would come out as just slightly above the level of development of Morocco.

          Speaking of the university system instead, I’m not trying to pull an Engleman on you but lots of the Asians who come to the US might be the cream of the crop in terms of wealth but they are often also the students who didn’t manage to get access to a top-tier Chinese/Singaporean/Korean university. These students have a hard times finding employment back home (where executive salaries are on par or above the Western world) as they
          find themselves c_ock-blocked by the local competition with a top
          degree from a national college. The vision you have of Asia is still
          stuck in the 80’s-90’s.

          Currently tons, and I repeat TONS, of white professionals seek employment here in HK or in Singapore or even in Coastal China (which is at the level of an upper-middle income nation), while an even bigger number flock to the Gulf. The recent economics depression in the West was, so far, barely felt here, and
          has left quite many educated white people downsized and castaway.

          On the other hand here you enjoy a life of low-to-non existent taxes, a 24 hours a day service economy, superb infrastructure and real estate, non existent level of crime

          Also more and more white students and professors are seeking tenures in top-tier Asian academia,some of which are ranked, in terms of peer review, in the top league. Again, outside of a few bright spots in the Netherlands, Scandinavia and the UK, how do European universities fare ?

          Sorry for the long and (I know) boring essay, my point is not Asian= Good YT=bad what I’m just saying is you guys have a formidable opponent here, do not discount their intelligence and talent


          My avi picture is a joke

          • Anna Tree

            Welcome to Amren.

            First, the Western countries you are describing are already rotten by 3rd world immigration and other liberal leftist dogmas.

            Second, the North East Asian countries you are comparing them to, have been molded on the Western world, take away the shaping we have done to them and the thousands of whites who are contributing to it right now, you including and what do you think would you get?

            Third, the hegemony of Europe is not only of a three century window. I, like you, believed this, until I read a book that made me think and
            research more on that period before the Renaissance, and changed my

            The Middle Age weren’t really dark ages, and show already an European hegemony. It is just the people living the Renaissance looked at the previous generations with a better-than-thee attitude.

            From Michael Crichton’s book Timeline:
            “We owe much to the Middle Age. Our present Western world is more the result of the Middle Ages than the Renaissance. The Renaissance gave us art and and freedoms but those were
            already won in the Middle Ages. The Middle Ages gave us the nation-states, the central government and urban life, the universities and the codes of law and ideas of justice, well also the government bureaucracies, and dozens of other institutions.

            They weren’t gloomy and stagnant, it was much an
            exciting time. A period of change, movement and travel. The English longbow ended the knights status in a few decades. New, more efficient methods of plowing, fertilizing and crop rotation revolutionalized the agricultural methods. The medieval social order was not fixed and many new enriched families found their way into the nobility. Women had no legal rights but they were prime players in what was happening and had the right to take care of the businesses and other family affairs like the defense of the castle against besieging armies. It was a time of terrible disease, but also of joy in life and appreciation of its preciousness maybe more than today.”

            I could have bring more like reminding you of the Carolingian
            Renaissance during the Franks hegemony, notably the spread of education with the establishment of schools (for poor as well) during the reign of Charlemagne.
            See more: scholar.chem.nyu(dot)edu/tekpages/Timeline(dot)html

            More,do you think a people suddenly go from being inventors of civilizations to stagnating in the Early Middle Ages (and back again to be the world hegemony) for no good reason? How about centuries of jihad (mass-killing, raping, pillaging, enslaving) against the Levant and the South Eastern European countries? The 1st Crusade was launched in 1096.
            Prior to that, Muslims conquered and killed Non-muslims in Syria 635, Palestine 638, Persia 642, Eqypt 642, (North Africa 642-698,) (Kabul 711, the Indus region/Samarkand 712) Spain 712, Toulouse 721, (Kyrgyzstan 751,) Armenia 1071.

            Muslim expansion into Europe was only stopped at Tours in 732.
            The Greeks held back the Muslim hordes from the first attacks in 734 up to 1453. In the 14th century Turkey conquered Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, Hungary and parts of Poland and Russia. Turkey was stopped only as it lay siege to Vienna in 1683.
            What we call the dark age of Europe is exactly the terrible consequence of islam incessant attacks and spreading its claws on all those Christian lands like Assyria, Egypt or the Zoroastrian Persians, the burning of the libraries, blocking notably the exchange of ideas between the East and the West, the muslims forcing islam on all those formerly Christian white lands (since then neither Christian nor white because of rape and later miscegenation of the forced converts with non-whites).

            From RobertB

            “The Ancient Greeks, followed by the Romans, laid the groundwork–including science, for everything that exists in the modern world that is good. No one, other than Americans, with the invention of the iron girder, has ever surpassed Roman engineering skills–no one. To this day, the ancient dome of the Hagia Sophia remains one the world’s greatest engineering triumphs. Have you any comprehension of what it took to build such a vast, free standing dome? The MATH involved? The fact that, to this very day, we still build them that way? There is an even older one in Rome.”

          • SlizzardAjeosshi


            Thanks for the welcome and for the fantastic reply, which was one of the best things i’ve read in a while and a reminder of why I like this community.

            It’s pretty much point well taken on everything you say, i wish i had more time to delve into some of your arguements but i have to rush to work

          • Mark Caplan

            Science, art, architecture, theater, road, bridge, and aqueduct building, and large-scale social organization ended in Europe with the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Where once two languages, Latin and Greek, were used throughout Europe and North Africa, after the collapse people in neighboring villages could barely communicate with one another. This is why Renaissance intellectuals referred to that period as the Dark Ages. In the absence strong military and political power, the West was open to invasion, by Muslims and Vikings. The Church and the stranglehold of superstition and dogma over what people were allowed to express contributed to the collapse.

            Crichton: “The Middle Ages gave us the nation-states, the central government and urban life.”

            Hardly. All those things that were once extant were obliterated in the Early Middle Ages. The population of the city of Rome fell from a million to under a hundred thousand. Most cities disappeared altogether. The Middle Ages were characterized by feudalism and religious extremism. It wasn’t until the Renaissance that Spain became a nation-state. Great Britain united in 1707. Germany and Italy didn’t become nation-states until the 1870s.

          • Anna Tree

            1) You wrote “Science, art, architecture…”
            Check the Carolingian Renaissance and more: scholar.chem.nyu(dot)edu/tekpages/Timeline(dot)html

            2) You wrote “Where once two languages…”
            Well those two languages were imposed on people who spoke their own languages beforehand. Anyway, what’s wrong with a diversity of European languages?! I wish Ancient Latin and Greek were still spoken (I think they should be mandatory again), but they have evolved into modern Latin and Greek and many beautiful European dialects/languages while letting other European dialects/languages to blossom too. And this is because there are a multitude of European ethnicities/people. That diversity is a strength.

            3) “prophet” mohamed invented islam in the 7th century, so of course his thugs didn’t do jihad during the Roman Empire. Also nowadays, with all the strong military and political power, islam IS conquering Europe. So after all, I think the Middle Age did a awesome job fighting back islam. And again as I explained earlier, the Middle Age is a result of the incessant jihad against Europe.

            4) I do agree that it seems the Middle Age’s Christianity did set back some progress, at least temporary. Scientists bit by bit were discovering answers: religion and superstition back then were filling the gaps.
            But I do think religious extremism was not only happening in the Middle Age. Different religions perhaps.

            5) About the nation-states. This issue is just controversial, so you and Michael Crichton can disagree… All was just transitions, from the Roman Empire to towns/shires to empires/multiethnic states to nation-state. Who is to say one was better? Is the European Community better than the nation-states? Better is in the eyes of the beholder… The nation-states government were better than feudalism is some issues but I presume worse in others.

            Beside, the notion may be neither Roman nor Medieval or Renaissance but a process or just a modern notion:
            “Nineteenth century, to be precise. It’s the invention of European philosophers and politicians who thought the best way to make a stable government was to have everyone speak the same language, share the same cultural values, and have the same history.”
            seems to give much later dates than yours.
            For example: “At the time of the 1789 French Revolution, only half of the French people spoke some French, and 12-13% spoke it “fairly”, according to Hobsbawm.
            During the Italian unification, the number of people speaking the Italian language was even lower.”

          • Mark Caplan

            “At the time of the 1789 French Revolution, […] 12-13% [of the French people] spoke [French] fairly [well].”

            “what’s wrong with a diversity of European languages?”

            There are 850 languages spoken in Papua New Guinea, a country a little larger than California. Imagine if Americans were divided into 850 language groups. Would be be better or worse off?

            Compare European sculpture, painting and architecture of the Dark Ages to sculpture, painting and architecture at the height of Roman civilization. Then compare trade and commerce, military organization, science, and go down the line of activities that are indicative of civilization. The collapse of Rome is like the Great Depression amplified ten-thousandfold.

          • Anna Tree

            1) I think your claim/question is a mix of fallacies like false analogy, syllogism, correlation proves causation, false dilemma, causal oversimplification,inconsistent comparison, Ignoratio elenchi. We know that the IQs of whites and Papuans is vastly different, beside the time frame. Also while America is one country, (Medieval) Europe was many countries with different people, ethnicity, heritage.

            baronyofvatavia org/articles/artsci/language051981as16.php
            At the beginning of the Middle ages, the language of Europe was Latin. As it closed, there were five major national languages (Latin, Langue d’Oc et Langue d’Oil, Frankish, Old English) and a host other languages/dialects.

            triviumpublishing com/articles/languages.html
            Different people used different languages for different purposes. Beside, many people would have spoken more than one language. In England for example, a peasant in an isolated village would have had Middle English (one of the many dialects – indeed, he would have trouble understanding someone from a distant part of the country). A trader in London would also need French, and to be able to speak with people from all sorts of far-flung areas. He would have some Latin – enough to deal with trading terms, like weights and measures.

            Fragmentation (new or return to the old) often happen following the collapse of an empire.

            2) So it is logic in my opinion that it took some time for the Europeans to reestablish themselves, beside that other factors came to effect as well (see below). (similarly, if Western Europe collapses, it will take some time for Eastern Europe to take over the torch of civilization, but I presume and hope it will happen. The DNA is a bit different, so the civilization may be a bit different, although the two Europes could mix a bit, like North and South Europe mixed a bit also and Western Europe was different from the Roman Empire)

            Additionally, my hypothese is that the IQs of the Ancient Romans (and Ancient Greeks, Ancient Portuguese and Ancient Spaniards) was (still is) higher than the IQs of the other Europeans (the latter’s IQs though did increased following natural selection due to urbanisation, indirect eugenism and other influences). I think that that the Ancient Romans IQ was slashed when they miscegenated with their freed African slaves, especially the South Italians IQ, ensuing the islamic occupation and its rapes and forced conversions.
            A secondary hypothese is that the European Jews IQ is Ancient Roman (and the other Ancient Mediterraneans) IQ.
            (I don’t want to highjack this conversation so you can read my explanations and some support here:
            amren com/news/2014/05/study-examines-achievement-gap-between-asian-american-white-students/#comment-1376239864 )

            So yes, I don’t disagree with you about the gap between the Middle Age and the Roman Empire. But our disagreement was more about the Middle Age and the Renaissance, and precisely about the term Dark Age.

            I still think that the claim of a vast difference in achievements betwen the Middle Age and the Renaissance is exaggerated, notably to give the era of the Enlightment a superiority over the era of Christendom (for the record, I am an atheist, but I honestly see the subjectivity of the victorious here, the Age of Reason won over the Age of Christianity/superstition and history is a bit biased against the Middle Age as a consequence).

            But when you study Art or History of Art, you discover that the Middle Age is as rich a period. It is just less liked and so less popularized (and vice versa). Nevertheless, the Bulgarian Empire, Byzantium and the Carolingian Renaissance were prosperous and relevant, most of us just heard about them less, maybe because the two first were not eurocentrists and all three were less eccentric and grandiose (ego), but mostly more religious: the secular Europe tried to distance itself and praised least the Middle Age subsequently. And, another hypothese, nakedness in art but also the sexier clothing, seems to bring more interest…

            I already wrote about the incessant jihad on Europe that cut Europe in two, I should add: “The Plague of Justinian was a pandemic that afflicted the Byzantine Empire, including its
            capital Constantinople, in the years 541–542. It is estimated
            that the Plague of Justinian killed as many as 100 million people across the world.[29][30] It caused Europe’s population to drop by around 50% between 541 and 700.[31] It also may have contributed to the success of the Muslim conquests.[32][33]”

            The collapse of Rome was a disaster, but the Middle Age wasn’t the Dark Age.

            Despite the numerous obstacles of that period, “many modern European states owe their origins to events unfolding in the Middle Ages; present European political boundaries are, in many regards, the result of the military and dynastic achievements during this tumultuous period.”
            en wikipedia org/wiki/History_of_Europe

          • Mark Caplan

            “[We] don’t disagree […] about the gap between the Middle Age and the Roman Empire.”

            That’s all I was commenting on. So let’s agree to agree.

            “…our disagreement was more about the Middle Age and the
            Renaissance, and precisely about the term Dark Age.”

            I was using “Dark Ages” as synonymous with the Early Middle Ages in Western Europe, following the collapse of the (Western) Roman Empire — in your words a “disaster.” (Byzantium in the East was outside this region.)

            I and many others consider “Dark” a suitable metaphor for the abyss Europe plummeted into. But all generalizations are partially false. Even black holes are not perfectly black. In the darkest periods of the Early Middle Ages in Western Europe, not everybody was a superstitious, lice-infested, illiterate peasant.

          • Mark Caplan

            Coincidentally, here is John Steele Gordon writing in this morning’s Barron’s newspaper:

            With the collapse of the Roman Empire in the West in the fifth century, Western Europe quickly fell into what is popularly called the Dark Ages, a term out of fashion in recent decades. Historians now prefer the term “late antiquity.” Whatever the name, it was a very deep and very protracted economic depression.

            The population declined, iron mining and manufacturing nearly ceased, coinage disappeared, and long-distance trade went with it. Cities decayed. Rome itself had a population of about a million at the height of the Empire. By the time of Charlemagne, it had only about 30,000 people. London and Paris were hardly more than villages, with only a few thousand inhabitants each.
            [end quote]

    • Bossman

      East Asians are one-dimensional kind of people. If they were to take over the world, then everything would suddenly become quiet and boring. It would be as if the world had desended into a deep slumber.

      • JohnEngelman

        Blacks probably think whites are quiet and boring.

        • Bossman

          Yes, there appears to be a one, two, three, difference among the races. Blacks appear to be the most alive and exuberant and East Asians the least alive and exuberant and whites somewhere in the middle.

          • RisingReich

            Blacks are the most alive and exuberant if you consider raping, robbing, murdering, rioting, and molesting as ‘being alive and exuberant’.

          • Lagerstrom

            They don’t even bother to play guitars any more either. Just complaining…and raping, robbing, murdering, rioting, and molesting.

          • Bossman

            The roots of being are to be found in violence and chaos. Blacks are more primordial beings.

          • alex

            I would prefer boring Japanese to some vibrant Detroit dwellers.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            The most alive? You need to check FBI crime stats. And don’t confuse exuberance with stupidity. Personally I find Blacks to be utterly cliche and dull in most cases. I suspect you are colored so I am not surprised you have such a high opinion. Nobody here shares your sentiments, we know better.

        • Medizin

          In that case, it’s a good thing.

        • DudeWheresMyCountry?

          Yet, like you… they won’t move to Africa. Do you need a couple grand of cash to help with a move to Tanzania? Let me know, my offer still stands. Practice what you preach little man or shut your mouth.

          • JohnEngelman

            That sounds like the threat of a high school bully.

        • So CAL Snowman

          Which explains why they leave us alone and never ever try to move into our cities, send their kids to our schools, mate with our women, drive our White designed automobiles, come to party at our night clubs and bars, and are always very polite when turned away from White social gatherings.

      • Mason Gull

        No, you just aren’t very fond of Asian people. I personally prefer Asian media and culture to be more interesting and fun than that of West, and there are many people would agree with me.

        • DudeWheresMyCountry?

          Yet you wouldn’t live there under any circumstances. Why don’t you immigrate; they will embrace your diversity!

          • SlizzardAjeosshi

            I emigrated to HK, they don’t embrace you, they use your talents while you’re still needed and then toss you away. It’s a mutual agreement among consenting adults.

            Asian media is indeed kinda edgy and fun to watch (my guilty pleasure)

          • Mason Gull

            Hey, don’t knock it ’til you try it. The idea of living in Japan or Hong Kong for a few years sounds pretty appealing to me.

          • DudeWheresMyCountry?

            Don’t compare China with Japan. I have respect for The Japanese. And Hong Kong is liveable only because it was controlled by The British until 1997. South Korea is strong economically because it is protected by The West. Korea without Western assistance is well, North Korea.

          • Mason Gull

            I thought we were talking about Asia generally, but I’m sure that there are livable parts of mainland China.

          • RisingReich

            Then go. No one is stopping you. Go pollute their nation.

      • JohnEngelman

        East Asians are favored by American employers because in addition to tending to be more intelligent, they are usually easier to work with. They are courteous. They get along well with bosses, co-workers, and the customers of their employers.

    • Peter Connor

      But not very creative or imaginative–the Confucian system didn’t value that.

      • JohnEngelman

        What you say is true.

        However, creativity is an aspect of intelligence. In evolution a feature that evolves in response to one population pressure often finds other advantages.

        • Anna Tree

          An aspect… or the principal motor?!

          History seems to show that creativity is not only an aspect but a mandatory characteristic of the greatest civilizations of humanity. And creativity (as well as ingeniosity and inovation) seem to be a white race trait, don’t you think so?

    • tetrapod

      The difference in average IQ between whites and northeast Asians is not that big. I tend to think that in this case — as opposed to white differences between Ashkenazi Jews, blacks, and Hispanics — the performance gap might actually be a matter of nurture, not nature.

      In any event, we can take heart in the fact that although Asians are kicking our soft white derrières, our children at least feel much better about themselves.

      • DudeWheresMyCountry?

        They are so smart they don’t even have any human rights. They are so cunning their government must censor the internet. China is a filthy mess. Impressive if you are a locust or a bee.

    • rmk948

      As a long-term project for a client in my business consultancy, I summarize recent technologies that are just reaching pre-market stage. I look at hundreds of scientific and engineering papers a week. Among American innovators, Asian-Americans are extremely well represented as are Ashkenazic Jews. It is very difficult to believe that innate factors are not important. BTW, Asians are very well represented in European academic and research institutes as well when it comes to innovation.

  • So CAL Snowman

    “Studies show that Asian American youth are less psychologically adjusted and socially engaged in school than their white peers.”

    Basically Asians don’t party and socialize like the White kids do. Asians also rarely participate in high school sports. I don’t think Asians really understand the social dynamics of the White Western world and our different social dynamics result in vastly different societies and civilizations. There is a reason that the best and brightest of the Asian race come to the White West to find freedom and prosperity. There is a reason that the brightest Asians send their children to White, Western universities and colleges.

    • LHathaway

      Yes, there is a reason they come here. To take what is yours.

  • disqus_Xz3UA6obwj

    “Asian and Asian American youth are harder working because of cultural beliefs that emphasize the strong connection between effort and achievement,” the authors wrote.
    In other words they have the intellect to understand what it takes to get ahead and that their abstract reasoning abilities, the ability to see long term instead of living in the moment, is very good. The “cultural beliefs” argument is the same thing they say about the Jews superior group performance when trying to deny their higher IQ average. Smart people have smart cultural beliefs and stupid people have, well, a no snitchin mentality. It is absurd to attribute smart cultural beliefs to one group and dumb cultural beliefs/behaviors to another yet claim both groups have similar intellect. Intelligence manifests itself through behavior so if behavior does not determine higher IQ then what would?

    • LHathaway

      attitude and open-mindedness.

  • Fighting_Northern_Spirit

    I think culture does matter to some degree in this instance – Whites have been emulating blacks for 50 years. If these same tests had existed in the 1950s, I don’t doubt Whites would score the highest.

  • Black Swan

    due largely to greater work effort and cultural attitudes

    The same justification is never applied to black students. Their failures are always due to White privilege, oppression, racism and discrimination.

    If greater parental pressure means emotional and psychological abuse like the Tiger Dragon mom, then no thanks.

    Besides that, Whites outperform Asians all the time.

    2014: “China’s first moon rover is broken beyond repair”


    1969: “ White Americans successfully land a man on the moon”

    There is nothing else you need to know about the differences between Whites and Asians as far as achievement.

    • DudeWheresMyCountry?

      And to think, the Chinese have access to insanely better computer technology in 2014, thanks to Whites. The computers of the late sixties were far more primitive than a 1980s 16 bit arcade game. China is a joke.

      • Intrep1d

        Technology is one thing, but keep in mind that even in 1980s, the US space program was around for longer than China’s program to date. Don’t discount experience.

    • Intrep1d

      NASA’s Space Shuttle Challenger exploded in 1986 killing everyone aboard. Failures don’t always reflect a lack of intelligence.

  • IKUredux

    Uhh, the reason this country is racially stratified is because some stupid ass Democrats decided in 1965 to let all these different people into this country! Cripes! Didn’t anyone get a clue about the fact that as long as Blacks have been in this country, they have never ever fit in! And they never will! They are genetically unable! Same with the Chinese! OOOH, the Chinese are sooo smart! Yeah, thanks for your major contributions to humankind: gunpowder and moo goo gai pan.

    • Intrep1d

      The problem with someone taking credit for their race’s achievements is that it ultimately has no meaning to individuals. What have you done lately? If you’re like most people, the answer is going to be nothing remarkable.

  • Medizin

    Why wasn’t ‘cheating’ mentioned as a reason they score higher than Whites?

    • JohnEngelman

      Because it is an alibi, like white racism.

      • Black Swan

        Riot after Chinese teachers try to stop pupils cheating

        “What should have been a hushed scene of 800 Chinese students diligently sitting their university entrance exams erupted into siege warfare after invigilators tried to stop them from cheating.”

        If you have information about Whites doing same, post it, anti-White.


        • SlizzardAjeosshi

          Sorry but i remember hundrends of episodes of white college students rioting over literally nothing

          • Black Swan

            White students rioted because their professors and university demanded that they not cheat?

            I defy you to prove this.

          • SlizzardAjeosshi

            You are right and i apologise, when i wrote this i didn’t read the entire thread, thought it was about rioting in general and not rioting specifically because of the cheating issue, my bad

          • Black Swan

            Thanks. Since you are new here, you will soon find out that there are a number of Asiaphiles here who ramble on about the superiority of Asians over Whites, on a pro-white issues site no less.

            Their purpose here seems to be here to bash Whites in every manner possible including demanding that White countries open their borders wide to any and all Asians to flood into White homelands and race-replace Whites. When race replacement of the native popultion happens in Darfur or Tibet, the UN labels it genocide and calls for sanctions. In White homelands, nothing is done, including about the mass murder of Whites that is going on in South Africa right now.

            We Whites are a small world minority facing loss of our homelands and resources from massive 3rd world immigration.

            Asians have a homeland, and soon, we won’t and we are worth saving.

          • SlizzardAjeosshi

            Working for an Asian company i have to say i neither admire them excessively nor hate them. In fact i am just interested in preserving world differences each in their own natural environment, honestly i don’t even hate blacks and i sincerely hope Africa will evolve in the next few centuries. Maybe advances in genetic science and well aimed policies will allow this to happen. Otherwise we are truly in trouble as in another generation 1/4 of the world population will be African.

            About East asians, well they figured out the eugenics thing better than we did while we definitely create culturally more interesting societies. Christ even if Italy is a mess i do miss many things about home.

            To each their own and i completely agree about the intolerable situation White Nations face. Things are, albeit at a slowingly painful rate, changing though so let’s not loose hope 🙂

  • IstvanIN

    Whites are creative, Asians are good at memorizing, I have no problem accepting that. So Asians get a higher IQ score, that is terrific, but they don’t seem to advance like Whites do. We are different and that is fine with me. Just don’t take over my country.

    • TXCriollo

      Asians also focus on school, and i mean asian asian not indians, who come here to use the system. Blacks and aztecs dont so compare the two hardest working groups whites and asians is probably a good idea

      • IstvanIN

        By Asians I mean East Asians, aka Orientals. Sorry to confuse.

        • TXCriollo

          No i got what you meant, just asian now includes india in the liberal mindset and in not talking geographical sense

    • MikeofAges

      Newton. Maxwell. Liebniz. Einstein. Von Neuman. Faraday. Tesla. Galileo. Michelson. Curie. Darwin. Fermi. da Vinci. Kepler. von Neumann. Copernicus. Hawking. Edison. Euler. Pascal.

      • LHathaway

        Dead white guys.

        • MikeofAges

          Except for Madame Curie. LOL.

  • LHathaway

    So, Asians are outperforming whites. . and the important take away is that, “(Asian’s) ‘outsider’ status may undercut their achievement success and prevent their full integration into American society.”

  • Anybody who’s ever been around Asians already knew this. It’s obvious.

  • Alucard_the_last

    This is because our white students are being indoctrinated by the politically correct and being told to embrace every hell hole on earth while Asian students are actually studying real subject matter.

  • Ella

    Asians spend more time studying and less time gaming or playing sports. The performance gap has to do with priorities and not always IQ points.

    • MikeofAges

      They also are good at cheating. Years ago, I had girlfriend who was a community college pre-nursing student in the San Francisco Bay Area. She said the Asian students openly cheated and few instructors would attempt to stop it. Cheating isn’t going to make you either good or great, but it can get you a seat at the table which others do not get.

    • Intrep1d

      Not sure if they spend less time gaming. If anything, they do more of it.

  • The real significant gap is between Jews and gentiles as Jews control the elite institutions.

    • Alexandra1973

      I wouldn’t say control. I’d say they’re hirelings.

      • tetrapod

        Interesting. Could you elaborate, please?

  • Deiter Botha

    So many of these “studies” stop following achievement and learning at the high school or college level. Today’s work and learning reality continues well into our fifties. I personally didn’t extract my head out of my rear until I was in the Army, and after serving my tour went to work in a paper mill. It wasn’t until I was 30 that I returned to school and got my degree with a 3.8 GPA. My teens and twenties were spent living a fun life like many do today. We should not underestimate our white races potential for greatness because some Asian kid and his codependent parents miss place what is a life worth living. The general white population has plenty of room to make mistakes, learn from them and then start over and be the best.

    • Intrep1d

      What you did is an exception to what most people do, regardless of race.

  • Bossman

    Jews are smarter for all kinds of reasons. They may have invented our kind of alphabet and everything begins with that. They may have been the world’s first international traders. Their religion pays attention to what is important. They engage the world while standing sufficiently apart from it.

    • Sometimes I wonder if the reason for Ashkenazi intelligence is largely due to their small size. There are only roundabout 10 million of them in the entire world. My totally speculative, unscientific hypothesis is that Ashkenazi IQ is so high because they essentially lack a lower-middle class and working class population to pull their number down. If you took the white population and cut off its bottom ~40%, the remaining IQ would no doubt be extremely high.

      • Anna Tree

        You want to know what is my theory about Ashkenaz intelligence? Sit down LOL:

        My speculation is that the askanaz IQ is not Jewish, it is European. The IQs of the European Jews is the IQs of the Ancient Italians/Greek/Spanish/Portuguese (before it was decreased by miscegenations notably with black slaves and muslim Arabs and Moors or other North Africans.) I wish we could check the DNA of the Nobel prized Ashakanaze Jews with the DNA of the intellectual stars of the Ancient Greeks and Romans, but I presume Northern Italian Nobel prized could suffice too.

        From an article of Razib Kan, Genetics & the Jews, in DiscoverMagazine (Nicholas Wade also wrote about this in his “A troublesome Inheritance”):

        “During Greco-Roman times, recorded mass conversions led to 6 million people practicing Judaism in Roman times or up to 10% of the population of the Roman Empire. Thus, the genetic proximity of these European/Syrian Jewish populations, including Ashkenazi Jews, to each other and to French, Northern Italian, and Sardinian populations favors the idea of non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestry in the formation of the European/ Syrian Jewish groups and is incompatible with theories that Ashkenazi Jews are for the most part the direct lineal descendants of converted Khazars or Slavs. The genetic proximity of Ashkenazi Jews to southern European populations has been observed in several other recent studies.”

        Not all Amreners will agree with me, but in my opinion European Jews (i.e. Asheknaz, Spanish, Italians, Greek, Syrian Jews) are a white ethnicity, they are Mediterranean and Levantine whites. Can’t help but see resemblance between Mark Zuckerberg and the Medicis.

        I always wondered about the civilizations of the Ancient Greeks and Italians: I thought they must have been brought by people with high IQs. Well the European Jews have high IQs…
        — Of course I repeat it’s just a naive speculation, but it would be damn beautiful and logic if it was. And so ironic… well not for all LOL, not for the Jews (nor European Jews neither the others, the first would have to accept they are not original Jews, it’s only a religion for them, not a race; the latter would lose the high IQ aura that was never theirs anyway, but the truth sets one free lol) and not for some Amreners, who won’t like that the European Jews are whites.

        To claim that the Ashakanaz higher IQ is from banking, one has to
        show for example: how long Ashakanaz have been bankers, percentage about those who happen to be bankers, IQs of Non-jewish bankers families, European and Non-European, included North East Asians etc I never see anything about these, anyone?

        I had this conversation with John Engelman, so you can read more here if you want:

        • That is an interesting speculation. Certainly, based on technological, social, and literary achievements, ancient Europeans, or at least upper class ancient Europeans, were extremely intelligent.

          I agree that Ashkenazi Jews are white, but my opinion is based solely on physical appearance. Visually, it is inconsistent to say that a Swede and a Greek are both white but that Noam Chomsky and I are not of the same race. It’s pretty common for me to learn that so-and-so the celebrity is Jewish, and it’s almost always a surprise. I had just assumed they were a “regular white person.” William Shatner, for example. I just learned he’s Jewish. I never would have guessed. I’ve watched William Shatner a hundred times and never once thought, “He doesn’t look like a white guy.”

          According to Charles Murray, the mean IQ of white Americans with professional degrees is 125. In absolute numbers, there are probably roughly the same number of non-Jewish American white men with professional degrees as there are Jewish people in the world (10 million). [Justification: the non-Hispanic, non-Jewish white American population is approximately 191 million. If 5% of them have professional degrees, which is just a wild guess, that would be 9.5 million.] In other words, the Jewish IQ is, in that sense, a matter of narrowness. In pure numbers, there are probably a lot more non-Jewish white people in the world with 115+ IQs than Ashkenazi Jewish people. That doesn’t change the fact that Jews have a very high average IQ, but it does put it into perspective a little.

    • Anna Tree

      – What alphabet the Jews invented?!? Are you confusing with the Ancient Egyptians or with the Phoenicians?

      – No, not the first traders either. First, Trade began in prehistory, it seems to me therefor, before races as we know them today. Obsidian trade was done in South West Asia and in Anatolia, Iran and Egypt. Later Afghanistan.
      You need something valuable to trade, so it came to people living near mines and such.

      – Like every religion, Judaism came up with (or in fact plagiarized) important things and silly things. To say they pay attention to what is important is “selective hearing”. Bring examples and I will easily prove to you that other people did it before the Jews: for one, most of Judaism is from the Zoroastrian or the Sumerian religions.

      – Smarter, depends who, European Jews, yes, but Moroccan or Yemen, no. Isn’t it strange? Intelligence is not magic, it is biological like everything else. If their brain evolved so differently, then the rest too (it’s obvious to the eye too), and so they are not the same race anymore (if they ever were, see my post below.)

      • Bossman

        Before they became Jews, they were Phoenicians. I also said international trade; not just trading, everybody trades.

  • Actually, they would probably be more than happy to admit that Asian success is due to superior intelligence, if it were. They only bend over backwards to avoid the obvious when blacks and Hispanics are involved.

  • scutum

    I studied economics at the University of Wisconsin. I had to complete two semesters of calculus and a semester of statistics. I have never had to use either of these disciplines in my work. While math is necessary if you are going to due research in a hard science or are engaged in an engineering profession, for the majority of people it is not necessary. I also had to take a semester of accounting and have found this to be of much greater relevance than calculus or statistics. Whats really ironic about this is that I had an uncle who was a math genius who worked on the space program back whe it was at “Cape Canaveral”, and a brother in law who is a research scientist. Neither of them has done as well as my the brother in law who was public school teacher for 25 plus years. He recently informed me that with his pension and social security he is making more in retirement than he did when he was working full time.
    PS: When I took the statistics course there were only a dozen or so minorities left in the class after the first exam. They were all Asian except for an Oneida Indian who completed the course along with the rest of us.

    • captainc

      hmm, interesting what made different, perhaps they all are math wizards but have no zeals for capitalism?

  • Magician

    I would not strictly compare Asian students to White students or the Asian economy to the Western economy. They are different types of economies and different types of students.

    This is like comparing the auto industry to the music industry or the world of literature to the world of art. They are different types.

    And less than half of billionaires around the world, and CEOs at top high-tech companies, have college degrees.

  • Greg Thomas

    “A growing achievement gap between Asian American students and their white classmates is due largely to greater work effort and cultural attitudes, not innate cognitive ability, researchers say.”

    I see. Nevertheless, when they discuss the achievement gap between brown and White students, we are told it is always the result of “racism and White privilege.” Funny
    how that works.

  • Anna Tree

    I didn’t read anybody throwing lame excuses. Could you point to those posts for me?

    Also how come 90% of your social circle is white, it seems you do care about race, Whites are only 65% and that’s thanks to the older generations: you say you are at the University, how many percentage of whites you age are there, I don’t think 90%. Also you didn’t say anything about blacks and Hispanics… Seems as per your own words that more whites are serious students who live cleanly… You see it seems you are more a WN that you think LOL

    • Anonymous

      I live in a zip code that is 94% White so given my locale, my friends are actually slightly more likely to be non-White. You cannot expect me to be friends with Black people or Mexicans if they live 30+ minutes away. I live within walking distance of most of my friends.

      As for university, mine is 80% White. I would say that about half the White students are serious and live cleanly and half are party/drunken/drug-using/promiscuous. As for the Jews and Asians who make up most of the other 20%, the vast majority of them are serious students.

      • DudeWheresMyCountry?

        According to Black and Mexican people you are racist. Leftists of any color too.

      • Anna Tree

        How convenient! You live in a 80% white neighborhood but you are coming here to lecture us how lame our rhetoric is and that you are not WN and you like people of any race who are well behaved. Well how do you know how hot the desert is if you live in Iceland?!? You don’t live in diversity to know you would love any race or that blacks and Hispanics are well behaved as much as others.

        I have to go but I think I will answer you more here later.

  • Anna Tree

    Much more than 600 years:

    From RobertB
    “The Ancient Greeks, followed by the Romans, laid the groundwork–including
    science, for everything that exists in the modern world that is good. No
    one, other than Americans, with the invention of the iron girder, has
    ever surpassed Roman engineering skills–no one. To this day, the
    ancient dome of the Hagia Sophia remains one the world’s greatest
    engineering triumphs. Have you any comprehension of what it took to
    build such a vast, free standing dome? The MATH involved? The fact that,
    to this very day, we still build them that way? There is an even older
    one in Rome.”

    Please read my post to SlizzardAjeosshi, about the Middle Age.

    • DudeWheresMyCountry?

      The Pantheon in Rome. Is it bigger than Hagia Sophia?

      • Anna Tree

        Yes it is:

        Pantheon = 142 feet
        Hagia Sophia = 102 feet
        Georgia Superdome = 840 feet !


        • Anna Tree

          Hey, why was a comment to my post removed, I like compliments 🙂
          I am guessing something… I may be wrong, anyway my mouth is zipped 🙂

          My response to you was: Today?! Everyday! LOL. Thank you!

  • Jacobite2

    European cultures also considered actresses to be prostitutes, or at least weird and evil. They were, and are still, correct. Look at Hollywood today.

  • Anna Tree

    Like Prof. Rushton explained, “Genes, keep culture on a leash.”
    Cultures, civilizations and religions are the product of our genes, and genes and races are evolutionary constructs.

  • Intrep1d

    Because China historically had a “commie mantra”? smh

    • Anna Tree

      Well some cultures/races, indeed think more about society/collectivism, while others more about the individual. It seems that here again, N-E Asians are in the first group, blacks in the second and as usual whites are (or were!) somewhere in the middle between the two.

  • Intrep1d

    Asian performance is too consistently high to be attributed to rote memorization or simple cheating. Neither of the latter is sustainable enough to produce the kind of results they get.

  • Intrep1d

    “Forced to give monthly support checks”?? No race on Earth does this. Not even Asians.

  • DudeWheresMyCountry?

    Nice try. Why don’t you name a few prestigious Chinese universities that are the envy of the academic world.

  • DudeWheresMyCountry?

    The world will never follow China’s lead. Their culture, entertainment, human rights record, craftsmanship and technology simply are not impressive.

  • According to Google, an American named George H. Heilmeier invented LCD.

  • DudeWheresMyCountry?

    Too bad you don’t fall into any of those categories. Thanks for visiting!

  • DudeWheresMyCountry?

    What excuses? Non-Whites want to be away from their homelands and live in Western countries and complain when they don’t get things they haven’t earned and then complain to White people. Whites just want them to stay home.

  • DudeWheresMyCountry?

    Yes. Do you know that Whites have funded, through entitlement programs and foreign aid trillions of dollars to non-Whites and their failed cuktures? That money could’ve easily funded a Mars colonization. Fact. The excuses of non-Whites always hinge on getting something for nothing from Western Civilization. We don’t want anything from them but to simply leave us alone and carve out their own existences. Get it? They need us. We need them to not need us as we don’t need them.

  • Intrep1d

    Japanese individuals have won Nobel Prizes, but they’re also one of the few Asian countries that’s truly modernized and First World. China’s never had the wealth or political stability until relatively recently to carry out the same pursuits. The fact that Asian-American researchers have previously won means that environment is a huge factor.

  • SlizzardAjeosshi

    Thanks, i love AmRen: even if i don’t always agree with their views, there are lots of fantastic contributors here and this place is a goldmine of good reading tips

  • SlizzardAjeosshi

    Man the fact you have such a high opinion of young Asians and their haircut choices clearly indicates you’re not familiar with k-pop

  • MBlanc46

    The authors claim that the difference isn’t a matter of cognitive ability, and yet the term IQ doesn’t appear in the article. They cast round for explanations, yet studiously ignore the most obvious one.

  • captainc

    According to The Changing Chinese, it is their backward but arrogant culture that everything revolved around The Middle Kingdom, moreover, the overpopulation, because, before 1950s, boys married young and tried to get another boy to pray for them (filial piety) so that they could have a blissful life in the Hereafter.

  • JohnEngelman

    I document my factual assertions. My detractors do not.

    When explaining my admiration for Jews and Orientals I am frequently able to use material I have found on American Renaissance.

    • expitch

      Hold on there. I believe that you asserted that the New Deal ended the Depression. In late 1939, New Deal insiders were themselves saying that nothing had really worked. ( See Morgenthau. Don’t have time to look up the spelling. ) World War Two ended the Depression. You could look it up in almost any economics text.
      Elsewhere you state that Republicans will do “anything” to advance the interests of the top 10%. As a man who prides himself on the strict adherence to “documented facts,” you’ve emitted a lulu of a generalization here. Remember now, if you reply you must be exact. All Republicans? Owners of small businesses? Two of my uncles were truck drivers? Larry Elder? Anything? As in the leftist “by whatever means necessary”? Careful here not to stub your foot on history, even current history. Not the top 9%? 6%? 3%?
      Your statement is what Hayakawa would have called a “snarl” ; that is, not even a serious proposition that could be challenged for its truth value. Nor would it have interested any of the analytic philosophers early in the last century or William James. Nothing to get their teeth into.
      Facts, indeed.

      • JohnEngelman

        “I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started.

        – Henry Morgenthau Jr., May 9, 1939

        In 1932, when Franklin Roosevelt was elected, the unemployment rate was 23.6 percent. In 1938 it was 19.0 percent. In 1940 it was 14.6 percent. Henry Morgenthau’s letter, which is often quoted by Republicans, was factually incorrect.

        • expitch

          You stated flatly that the New Deal had ended the Depression. The general consensus of economists is that World War Two ended the Depression. What part of 1940? Do you know why the rate dropped?

          • JohnEngelman

            High rates of government spending and government employment paid for by high taxes ended the Depression.

            Military spending and military employment is government spending and government spending.

            If the money spent on World War II had been spent on domestic programs the benefits to the economy would have been greater.

          • expitch

            That, my friend, is speculative sophistry. If the money spent on Word War Two had been spent on domestic programs, the government de facto would have owned nearly everything, by hook or by crook: the only way to get that much money in peacetime. Most work would have been “make-work.”People would have been “working” in an economy that was stagnant or worse. Maybe that is what you really want. Even in the depths of Depression Americans would not have stood for it.
            Economics is not your strong suit.
            The government has spent trillions on domestic programs in the last 50 years. One result you deplore: black out-o-wedlock births. ( Unless you want to blame that on the 10%. )Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that the level of poverty is higher now than it was before “the war on poverty.” You’ll blame the 10%. Or is it 6 or 3 or 11? Among others, Pat Moynihan, a Democrat, fretted about the consequences of these “enlightened” policies.
            Now let’s hear you defend the “factuality” of that “snarl.”

          • JohnEngelman

            Cross of Iron Speech

            Address by President Dwight D. Eisenhower “The Chance for Peace” delivered before the American Society of Newspaper Editors, April 16,1953.

            This world in arms in not spending money alone.

            It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.

            The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.

            It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.

            It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.

            It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.

            We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat.

            We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

            This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.

            This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

          • expitch

            But you spoke specifically of the money spent on World War Two.
            Ike did not regret the expenditure in order to preserve the freedom to give that speech. Like most soldiers he knew war, and hated it. You shifted tenses from 1940 to 1953. I worked within the time frame that you posited. You expanded it.
            You will note that nowhere in that speech did Ike mention “social programs,” where you wanted the money spent. All the building he cites would have to be done by companies and corporations, perhaps with government subsidies or outright support, as in the interstate highway system. You might try to stretch the conventional meaning of “social programs” to include these projects, but that would be a definitional error or categorical legerdemain.
            Ike was a decent and compassionate man, but he was no statist. Far from it. ( I seem to recall that Bill Clinton tried to claim him as such. I voted for Clinton. ) He was also a sensible man. He did not try to repeal the New Deal. Neither did he show any relish for expanding it.
            What is more, he had no illusions about the enemy. He sent an aircraft to spy on it. He kept the CIA busy. He did not call for disarmament. He was very much a Cold War Warrior, as was the man who followed him in the White House Word is that he threatened North Korea with nukes ( which cost a dime or two ) if it didn’t come to the table.
            It did not fool with him.
            Ike was giving expression to dreams for the future and clarifying his values as citizen. In the present, he was still very much the Supreme Allied Commander.

          • JohnEngelman

            I thoroughly support America’s entry into World War II. My point, once again is that the Great Depression was ended by high government spending and high government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich.

          • expitch

            I see that you agree with me that the war not the New Deal ended the Depression, as you originally claimed.
            The government spent on bombs and employed soldiers. These are special cases. You equivocate. You’ve really said nothing more than that wars are costly to citizens as well as to participants, no matter how money is raided.

          • expitch

            I note that my original post directing you and others to this thread has been deleted. By whom? Why? You used it to find my remarks before it disappeared. Others did not have the chance to participate in this debate. I would have welcomed referees, so to speak, since I challenged your oft-repeated declaration that your assertions are fact-based.

          • expitch

            I see that you agree with me that the war not the New Deal ended the Depression.

          • JohnEngelman

            New Deal programs did not end the Depression, but they greatly alleviate it. The government, under the leadership of the Democratic Party and President Roosevelt ended the Depression.

          • expitch

            Another two-step. You switched from “end” to “alleviate.” Your second sentence belongs on a banner not in a debate. What’s more, your proposition HAS been debated.
            In any case, maybe — maybe — you’ll exercise more caution the next time — umpteenth time — you are ready to declare that your opinions are fact-based.

          • JohnEngelman

            The point I have always made is that the Great Depression was ended by high government spending and high government employment paid for by high taxes on the rich. It had to be government spending and government hiring because the private sector was not hiring people sufficiently.

          • expitch

            Your point is so obvious as not to bear repeating. The private sector was broke, busted — that’s what a depression means in a market ( mixed ) economy.
            The money was spent on war. That ended the Depression.
            Perhaps we’ll meet again on other threads.

  • Einsatzgrenadier

    There’s no hard evidence that NE Asian’s have narrower standard deviations than whites.

  • Anna Tree

    I think this is a mix of appeal to probability, Argument from fallacy, Affirming a disjunct, appeal to common sense, Mind projection fallacy.

    Diversity for thee, but not for me…
    You remind me of my liberal leftist friends, who like diversity, that is, a little diversity (*) When it’s more than little, they say the place is going down hill and… they move to whiter places!
    Well, poorer people can’t move to more expensive neighborhood or universities, and neither Earth nor white countries are expandable.

    Also not all kind of little diversity but the brightest/richest/most educated non-whites out there. After all, 15% of the blacks are more intelligent than 50% of the whites, you got them in your university and neighborhood and smiling you ask why others, stucked with the typical ones – the 85%, complain about bullying, violence and more.

    Speculative fiction: your circle of friends has come to our attention and some diversity training is needed. You are racist due to your white privilege to live in a too white community: not avoiding diversity is not enough, you do need to seek it! You need to drive or move, and find more non-white friends! Some affirmative action needs to be implemented. 20% in not plenty and is not enough. To abscond the sins of your ancestors and better the world, any whites should have more non-white than white friends. A quota of at least 50% non-whites friends will be forced upon whites. We did it in the work environment, let’s not stop there! Diversity is a strength. You will not regret it. If you want to go to a 80% white university, you can go to Slovenia, the US is post-white, universities can’t be more than 50% white, cheer!

  • Garrett Brown

    Mestizos and negroes are already at the lower level of education, so it doesn’t matter if they watch garbage. Asian parents are very strict and most of them don’t allow their children to watch what white kids watch. The ones that do are still strict enough to not let it affect their children’s goals (their goals). I’m not making excuses, I’m listing one of the many reasons the newer generations are the reason the white race will probably die out.

  • Anna Tree

    Well, since yesterday I have been reading everything I can about Fomenko’s New Chronology. There are a few points that could be true but it doesn’t make him correct about his whole theory. For sure some dating must be wrong, but to claim that almost everything happened only in the last 1000 year, I don’t buy. Especially after reading the rational rebuttals to his theory.

    Actually the fact that I, only a lay woman, can see many fallacies in his theory and bring up at least one claim he has wrong (in my opinion,) and that from the top of my head, suggests Fomenko wasn’t rational and skeptic enough.

    ——>Quite anti-Nordic and anti-Mediterranean, therefor anti-white:
    I think he has some ideological beliefs leading him quite a bit… like to mathematize history or to restore to post-Soviet Russia some of the power and greatness of its past, sometimes doing this by minimizing or appropriating the power and greatness of… Western Europe, of course lol.

    One of Fomenko’s claim is “Ancient Roman and Greek statues, showing perfect command of the human anatomy, are fakes crafted in the Renaissance, when such command was for the first time attained.”
    Please order from your library the amazing PBS documentary called “How Art Made the World”. All the serie is extraordinary, but for the matter at hand, watch the episode “More Human than Human”, especially the part about “Ancient Greece – Naked Perfection”:

    Reading some of his methods, statistics and evidence (and the critics of those) reminds me so much of the muslim theologians trying to prove the divinity of the koran: a bunch of wishful thinking, extrapolations, rounding up, exaggerations, selecting disparities, speculations, alterations, artificial correlations and errors… and non-sense. Or the bosnians trying to sell their Visoko pyramids. Or those saying that aliens made the crop circles and kidnap people to probe them. Or those numerologists telling your future etc

    Of course I didn’t read everything, nor the books, but if I found so many problems… one problem is too many… Occam’s razor comes to mind.

    For example “If the rulers of two Byzantine periods and England were one and the same, why should their lives and loves, their triumphs and tragedies differ markedly through “error” and “exaggeration” while the same chroniclers doggedly preserved the length of their reigns?”
    Or “if Fomenko is correct, we must ignore the Magna Carta of 1215, since England’s King John would have been nothing more than a Byzantine fantasy. Paradoxically, Fomenko endorses the reality of the Crusades, perhaps because he thinks the Crusaders brought Byzantine history to back England. If so, one immediately wonders how feudalism, Catholicism, and every structure and artifact associated with the High Middle Ages developed spontaneously in the mere 50 years he allots between Rome and the Renaissance.”

  • an Arya

    I was searching for an entirely different subject when I happened to stumble upon
    this article and a plethora of intelligent debate going on. So here I am
    writing my very first post, eager to join in!

    1. I believe there has been a considerable amount of dispute as to whether it is the
    gene, or the environment that contribute more to what we are. From a purely
    scientific perspective, I suspect that the matter is impossible to settle,
    unless we are some sort of godly beings who can isolate, for instance, Whites, Asians
    and Blacks and divide them into three sets of three identical planets, in which
    one race inhabits three planets which consist of one planet from each set, and
    the environment of the planets are in our perfect control. Only then can we
    finally separate the gene and the environment and study their effects to the
    fullest. Since this isn’t the case, the studies done and the conclusions made
    so far can only resort to indirect measurements where various uncontrollable
    variables affect the results. Therefore it appears to me that regarding the
    controversial matter, we are only able to come up with opinions, rather than
    true science, so that we should be very careful when making generalizations
    such as “one race is better at something than the other race.”

    2. It is undeniable that Whites led the development of scientific knowledge and the
    other parts of the world only followed their footsteps. But I would like to
    delve a bit deeper into the actual process that led to the advent of science,
    rather than praising the race of its makers for their innate creativity and
    innovativeness. My inquisition starts with a question: “Where did science stem
    from?” An obvious answer could be “the quest for truth.” Curiosity is indeed an
    innate characteristic of the human mind. But the desire to “know” is just one
    of many desires a human possesses. Only when all the other desires, ranging
    from the basic ones such as food, clothing, shelter, and lust to higher forms
    such as wealth and power are fulfilled, can an individual turn to his curiosity
    of nature, although its study may be quite impractical to his daily life. In my
    opinion, the social structure of ancient Greeks and European aristocracy efficiently
    provided such individuals, who were interested in neither power nor wealth,
    because they had enough. Men such as Galileo, Bacon, and Descartes, who are now
    known as the “fathers of modern science” were greatly influenced by the works
    done by Greek philosophers such as Aristotle, Ptolemy and Euclid. Consecutively,
    the newborn “natural science” was voraciously taken up by the aristocratic
    society, and from there arose the scientific society, where the desire to “know
    more than others” was reborn since the ancient Greeks. Also, the shift of power
    from the church to the king and the scientific revolution demanding the fall of
    the church dogma might have positively influenced the flourish of natural
    science. I imagine that these unique social circumstances not present in other
    civilizations contributed to the dawn of science, rather than the innate superiority
    of the White race.

    3. I view the history of science this way: When science was first born in Europe, it began
    as the quest for truth. But after the United States was founded as the land of
    opportunity, science became a practical tool for obtaining wealth, and many
    novel inventions that now greatly affect our lives were made. Finally,
    nowadays, the knowledge gap between the scientists and the non-scientists has
    become too great for such inventions to frequently come into being, and this
    time, science became a tool for achieving social status, especially in the
    developing countries. It is because for them, “learning” Western scientific
    knowledge is crucial for their economic growth, and little emphasis is put on “discovering”
    new knowledge, since it takes much investment and time. As a result, proficient
    learners, rather than the curious and the innovative, arise from the
    competition to win the title of a scientist and a better social status. Because
    scientific breakthroughs are made by exceptionally curious and innovative
    individuals, this might partially explain the fact that Whites won most of the
    Nobel prizes by far.

  • OpenMindedForever .

    I’m wondering how many of the white-ethnic bigots posting here have the smarts (knowledge, skills, and abilities) to cure cancer or disease? Why, because all of you continue to be a cancer, a virus, that our diverse human species needs to eradicate! When I see every single white-ethnic human being on the planet, not just America, earn a PhD, become trillionnaires (Not just billionaires) and use all that smarts and wealthy to create your own planet — simply transport yourselves there via your superior technology, then and only then will I as a black male defer to your so-called superior intellectual minds and bodies. You won’t even have to share the planet earth with us. You can just go and create your own planet and leave all of us non-whites here to self-destruct or flourish into whatever inferior diversity-mongrels you claim. My message to all your superior white-ethics, go help your non-educated, non-skilled, and poor white-ethnic brothers and sisters worldwide earn their PhDs and become trillionnaires … every single one of you … leave no white-trash behind. When you can achieve that 100% superiority goal, not making any excuses that us non-whites are holding you back, then you can stop talking like GODs and actually BE GODS because you will have earned it! Stop making excuses for your individual failures and deficits, scapegoating minorities, because you can’t accept the historical and present-day FACT that there has always been dumb and smart, poor and wealthy, less-deficient and more-deficient human beings on this planet from the evolution of human kind. No racial-group has ever achieved 100% smartness and wealth for 100% of their group — the true litmus test for whether a racial group is superior primarily because of their melanin and genes. What’s even more disgusting is all your “American-white-bigots” actually think all whites or most that live in other countries, what you call the Western White Empire, identify with you racially/cutlurally, you’re delusional! They see you as different as you see your fellow non-white Americans.