3D Printing Brings Ancient Egyptians to Life

John Newman, Rapid Ready Tech, February 4, 2013

Forensics is used for far more than entertaining people with far-fetched ideas of how much information can be gathered at a crime scene. Anthropologists can use forensics to determine how people lived and died thousands of years ago. Now, forensics, combined with additive manufacturing (AM), can also show us what these people looked like.

Researchers at the Redpath Museum in Montreal, Canada, led by professional forensic artist Victoria Lywood, used CT scans to produce digital images of the features of three ancient Egyptian mummies. Information from the scans was processed and turned into data that was fed into a 3D printer. The printers built busts that reproduced the facial features and hair styles of the mummies. Color was then added, and the incredibly detailed results have become part of an exhibit at the museum.

Forensic reconstructions.

Forensic reconstructions.

“They are three human Egyptian mummies that have been trapped in the manner they held when laid to rest nearly 2,000 years ago. And now we can reveal what they might have looked like,” said the research team in a press release.

{snip}

Below you’ll find a video about how forensics experts use CT scans and 3D printing to reconstruct history.

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  • If I had a mother, she’d look like…

    Actually, I do have a mother. She looks something between the one in the left and the one in the middle.

    • Mine has a big Celtic nose and had red hair when she was younger.

      • Alexandra1973

        Mine actually looks Amerind. She’s only like 1/16 at most but she looks like she has more.

        No red hair in our family. But there are blue eyes and blond hair popping up here and there in our family.

        • Sick of it

          My family came from so many ethnic groups that we have everything in our blood. Dark hair, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes, hazel eyes, short, tall, medium, and a variety of skin tones. People who bald….and people with thick hair until they die.

          • Alexandra1973

            Half of my ancestry is Eastern European. Almost the other half is NW European. That includes English, Scottish, French, and German.

          • pcmustgo

            You’re multi-racial? Any black or mulatto mixed in? Amer-ind?

    • Spartacus

      I look a little like the one in the middle, only my hair’s not curly .

      • David Ashton

        That’s a bit of luck, then.

        • Spartacus

          What’s a bit of luck ?

          • David Ashton

            Not having curly hair.

          • Spartacus

            Curly hair isn’t something only crossbreeds and gypsies have… Alexander the Great, for example, had curly hair. Was he a gypsy ?

          • David Ashton

            No: of course not. I am just one of those people who thinks that you can’t always judge someone by accident of external appearance. No-one can help how they are born, though that doesn’t mean that different communities can be mixed without trouble.

            “If a part of the population declares that it no longer recognizes enemies, then depending on the circumstance, it joins their side and aids them.” – Carl Schmitt.

        • stewball

          Lol!

    • dd121

      I’ve read that the ancient Egyptians were genetically most closely related to today’s modern Celts. I’m no expert but they couldn’t have been black Africans, as some blacks assert, since they created and advanced civilization.

      • Le Fox

        They had blacks, but they were slaves.

        • Sick of it

          Even those black slaves were non-natives taken in battle from other nations.

      • Jefferson

        If the ancient Egyptians are closely related to Northern European Irish Celts, why did it not show in their phenotypes ?

        Every Caucasoid Egyptian I have seen either looks Arab, Jewish, or Italian. I have NEVER seen a Nordic Northern European looking Egyptian.

        • stewball

          If you’ve put arab, Jewish or Italian then you must add native Americans. Jews and Italians were always used to play them in films.

        • dd121

          All I can say is that they’re portrayed by modern artists as being darker 4500 years ago. I can’t say that is how they actually looked then. I suspect they were much lighter. The Arab population today is not closely related to the ancient Egyptians.

        • Le Fox

          Races change over time. There are a few blondes in Egypt, but they are exceedingly rare. The rise of Islam, open trade routes, and being the hub of the slave trade would change the demography very quickly.

    • MikeofAges

      What a beezer. LOL

  • Kit Ingoldby

    I want to see some DNA evidence from mummies.

    It does seem a bit odd how slow researchers have been to release that information. This is intriguing.

    • Alfred the Great

      They did a test on King Tut and it came back R1b, which is what I am, i.e., Anglo-Saxon.

      • Andy

        I find that really fascinating. That’s not common in Northern Africa. I wonder if maybe there was a strand of R1bers that served as a ruling elite for a while? There’s also a group of Chadic speakers with lots of R1b in sub-Saharan Africa. Their paternal ancestors migrated from Egypt, as I understand it.

        • Sick of it

          North Africa today is very different from ancient North Africa. R1b and similar hereditary groups once populated the entire region, as well as the Levant. Ancient Chad may have been populated by the same groups, but I haven’t found anything on archaeology of the region.

          • Andy

            Can you point me to the sources of this information? I was under the impression that both the Levant and North Africa were primarily full of Hamito-Semitic peoples (Berbers, Phoenecians, Assyrians, Jews) in ancient times, and that most European lines in N.A. came from the Muslim trade in Christian slaves and to a lesser extent Rome and the Germanic tribes’ conquests of the area.

          • Sick of it

            Tutankhamen was tested as R1b. Dr. Zawi Hawass was involved in the testing (he’s actually a pretty good scholar of Ancient Egypt).
            www (DOT) igenea (DOT) com/en/tutankhamun

            I cannot entirely agree with their thoughts on where this lineage fits in with Egyptian history because they leave out the possibility of the original population being replaced in more modern times (the Arabs murdered Christians who refused to convert).

            R1b is said to have originated in the Levant by others.
            www (DOT) familytreedna (DOT) com/public/r1b/default.aspx?section=results

            The map clearly shows a strong R1b population in the Levant and Anatolia to this day. I’ll also go out on a limb and claim that R1b IS a Hamitic genotype, possibly THE main Hamitic genotype. Remember that Hamitic peoples were once far more widespread in the past. They have also been said to be the ancestors of modern Irish folk via Iberia.

          • Andy

            The DNA results show that Egyptian genes haven’t changed much since ancient times, though. Only about 10% of their DNA comes from Arabs.

            But as for the rest of it, thanks a LOT. I researched it and most R1b* is in Kurdistan and the Levant. And it looks like R1b was one of the main Hamitic haplotypes.

          • Sick of it

            The following table shows a very strong J1 Y DNA presence in modern Copts. J1 is Semitic. Ancient Egyptians were not a Semitic people per their own writings, BUT various Semitic peoples conquered them over time. If the empires which conquered them followed their usual practices, they would have moved some of the local population out of Egypt to other parts of their empire to assure control over the population. THEN the Arabs showed up in a mad frenzy of slaughter and rape.

            The table also shows the tested population to be ~1/6 R1b.

          • stewball

            Well just look at the noses of the left and middle one. Most semitic.

          • David Ashton

            Thank you for this sort of data.

            The lips on the ancient Egyptian statuary to which I referred are not especially similar to African negro lips, but they do have a bow-like appearance like those of some Jews, Orientalid and Armenid alike.

          • Andy

            They don’t know when J1 originated, though. It could be that the Egyptians always had their J1 influence because they were related to other Afroasiatic-speaking peoples. There is also a high frequency of J1 among relatively unmixed Berbers that show a lot of R1. It would be interesting to see what strands of J1 specifically are present in the Copts.

          • Alfred the Great

            Very good stuff!

          • Alfred the Great

            I know my DNA because family tree DNA did the test. A couple weeks ago, they contacted me and asked me to participate in their Anglo-Saxon research because I am R1b. I don’t really think that the Germanic peoples are from Hamitic stock, but I could be wrong.

          • Sick of it

            R1a is more closely associated with the Indo-European settlers of Europe. R1b more likely came to Europe via older Celtic settlers. Quite a few of us are Celtic Nordic rather than pure Nordic.

            www (DOT) eupedia (DOT) com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA (DOT) shtml

          • David Ashton

            These OT national tables are not entirely reliable.

          • MBlanc46

            It was my understanding as well that the Berbers were the indigenous people of North Africa.

          • Sick of it

            R1b appears in Berber populations as a minority genotype. The Berbers were said to have mixed with the Arab population during the Middle Ages, which may explain the other genotypes. The presence is still significant. The maps below are for the m269 subclade.

          • David Ashton

            Some Nordid phenotype traits among Berbers are still reported.

          • Jefferson

            I have never seen a Berber that looks like she or he came straight out of Sweden.

          • David Ashton

            See note 37 in the Wikipedia entry “Blond”.

          • Jefferson

            Blondism exists among some Berber children, but the majority of Berber children are still dark haired.

            And blondism among Berber adults is almost non existent. You won’t see a 30 year old Berber for example with natural blonde hair.

            Natural blondism in adults is mostly a Northern European thing.

          • MBlanc46

            Thanks. I’d sure bet that some Arab genes got into the population from the eighth century, but I’ll bet there are plenty of people in villages up in the Rif and Atlas in Morocco where there’s not been much outbreeding.

    • Alfred the Great

      A couple years ago, or more, the Egyptian Minister of Antiquities put out a press release that they were going to do a DNA test on King Tut. I am sure that they thought that they were finally going to have smoking gun evidence that the Egyptians of old were Arabs. However, the time for the release of the DNA results came and went. It just so happens that a documentary crew caught some video of computer screens in a lab while it was in Egypt putting a piece together about ancient Egypt. They took the information to DNA specialists here in these United States and determined that King Tut’s DNA was R1b. It’s pretty obvious why the Egyptians didn’t want to release their DNA results.

      • BonusGift

        Bingo.

  • ZB

    I am half black and I attended a predominately White school for undergraduate college. I distinctly remember once visiting the office of a “counselor” who was black. In his office, there were a number of pictures of things Egyptian; all black, mind you (of course!). I told him that I didn’t really believe that it was that way it was at all, and that, maybe blacks built the pyramids, but as slaves, not as architects. He proceeded to call me the usual names, but I didn’t care; even back then. Finally, I told him that it was a free country, and you can believe whatever you want, but don’t try to pass this shibboleth off as history, just so you can “feel” good about yourself, truth be damned. I was not as blunt to him as I am in this comment section, but the truth was stated just as well.

    • Sick of it

      Honestly, after the DNA analysis of King Tut, I’m wondering if there even was a black population in ancient Egypt at all. We do need more testing done on other remains, if at all possible. Apparently we’ve all been lied to, one way or another.

      • So CAL Snowman

        There was a significant black population in Egypt right before Egyptian civilization collapsed. Sound familiar?

        • Sick of it

          I’d like to see some data on the remains. There were white Nubians, a fact which has been obfuscated for some time.

          • Andy

            White Nubians? Where did you find that out?

          • Sick of it

            Before Google was adjusted to keep certain things from cropping up, it was rather easy to find statues of dozens of rulers in ancient Nubia. They looked like white people. And then there’s the DNA analysis I keep bringing up. Negroids have different Y DNA unless they have white male ancestors.

          • Andy

            Were the statues painted? The features would be Caucasoid either way, so to show they weren’t dark-skinned Caucasoids like modern Nubians we’d need some indicator of color. When did Google change and how do you know?

          • Sick of it

            Not painted. They changed sometime around 2006-2007. I used to post these pictures on Stormfront in response to the Afro-centrists. Caucasoid features only appear in non-white people when they have white ancestry, as proven by DNA analysis.

          • Andy

            The people from the horn of Africa have Caucasoid features but dark skin. They do not really have any “white” ancestry; they are just more closely related to whites than negroid groups are.

          • Sick of it

            That’s like saying DNA testing is useless for determining paternity.

          • Andy

            No, it’s just saying that not all groups with Caucasoid features have light skin. African Horners don’t and Dravidians don’t. Just like there are light Mongoloids and dark Mongoloids. If you couldn’t see their skin color, Horners would look pretty much white – and certainly a lot closer to Europeans than to Negroids.

            They are more closely related to us than, say, Congolese, but none of their ancestors lived in Europe, and it would have been well before history began that they had any light-skinned ancestors.

            The girl in the top left is Somali. The woman next to her is Amhara. The two men on the bottom right are Nubian, and the girl next to them is Tigray. All the others are Oromo. These people’s ancestors moved to Asia in the inital migrations, but came back tens of thousands of years ago. Although they have dark skin, they are more closely related to southern Arabians than to the Negroid groups surrounding them. Their most frequent y-dna haplogroups are E1b1b and T, which are both common in North Africa and parts of the Middle East. Only 5-10% of their DNA is Negroid.

          • pcmustgo

            They are basically mixed with Arab… Well, the Berbers of North Africa are pretty white looking or can have whiter features.

          • Andy

            From what I understand there’s some admixture, but mostly they’ve evolved past where Negroids have but not as much as other Caucasoids.

          • Jefferson

            Berbers are “White” looking in the sense that they look Caucasian. They are not White looking in the Nordic Northern European sense.

            Berbers would not exactly blend right in a crowd of Swedes.

          • David Ashton

            Is this true of all north-western Indians? Is not a pigment mutation possible for the descendants of Europid invaders?

        • Brian

          What is the hieroglyph for ‘gibsmedat’?

          • Erasmus

            Two large hands joined in the middle, one raised threateningly and clutching a long dagger; the other outstretched, with palm upward and ready to snatch whatever’s proffered.

          • Brian

            EBT = Egyptian Bread Token.

          • Alexandra1973

            I imagine a stick figure with its hand out.

      • Alfred the Great

        Yes, there were probably some blacks in ancient Egypt because Ethiopia bordered Egypt. In ancient Egyptian texts the wars between Egypt and Ethiopia are mentioned. The Egyptians went into Ethiopia repeatedly for reasons of conquest, taking slaves, and exacting tribute. However, there was about a 60-year period during which the Ethiopians ruled in at least part of Egypt. They were subsequently beaten and either ejected or enslaved. Here is a good picture of Ramses II. You may draw your own conclusions. I wonder why National Geographic never uses this image when they talk about Ramses?

        • stewball

          Don’t forget King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba?

          • Alfred the Great

            Looking at a map of where the land of Sheba was, southwestern part of what is now the Arabian Peninsula, she was probably an Edomite or a Midianite. Some historians, like Isaac Newton, attribute the name of the Red Sea to the Edomites because the Edomites had red hair. Interesting stuff, but we will probably never know for sure.

      • Bantu_Education

        Its a tragedy for science that Egypt is occupied by a people (Arabs) with an inferiority complex and an anti-white agenda and, despite what their propagandists say, with very little achievement to their names and even that (assuming it ever was) very short-lived.

        • Sick of it

          Well, I know a lot of the Arab/Muslim scientists they claim came from other peoples entirely, so I’m not sure that Arabs have actually done much since the days of Sheba.

    • stewball

      What names did this intellectual counsellor call you?
      I thought my lot built the pyramids, as slaves of course.

      • David Ashton

        There is a theory that if Moses was not just a legendary figure, he was more than just a Hebrew servant and in any case was raised by the pharoah’s daughter to become a prince of Egypt. “Mose” was an Egyptian word meaning “son”. Prince Tuthmose during the reign of Amonhotep III has some biographical similarities to the hero of Exodus, but this identification is speculative and faces chronological problems. In any event Moses supposedly brought a “mixed” multitude and considerable loot with him.

        “As Barbara Streisand said to Golda Meir, beauty is in the eye of the beholder” (Jewish Joke).

      • Brian

        The pyramids were a thousand years old before the Hebrews were a twinkle in YHWH’s eye.

    • Bernie

      Interesting. Ethiopians do not consider themselves “black”. They are mystified by the Jamaicans coming to their county claiming kinship under Halle Selassie.

  • sbuffalonative

    The facial structures certainly DO look white. However, I can see the objection being that the researchers used Caucasian-colored skin. Save this photo and watch for these models to be darkened to a modern Egyptian hue.

    • Erasmus

      But those noses still aren’t squat enough and those lips bloated enough to look like those of most modern Egyptians.

      • Alfred the Great

        You’re correct. It’s because the ancient Egyptians didn’t look like the current Egyptians. Egypt went the way of all the ancient empires. See anything remotely similar going on in America right about now? And the rest of the civilized world, for that matter?

      • stewball

        Modern egyptians? They don’t have those features. Anwar Sadat was a very attractive man.

        • libertarian1234

          Anwar Sadat was not a typical-looking Egyptian of today.

          • stewball

            No he wasn’t. He was also charismatic when he spoke and amusing when he mentioned ‘the old woman’ and then they sat and swapped photos of their grandchildren. He was very brave to come here and we were so sad when he was assassinated

        • Talltrees

          No comparison to Omar Sharif.

          • Talltrees

            Omar Sharif

          • stewball

            Now you’re talking.

        • Lyndon B. Johnson once exclaimed after he had met Anwar Sadat “Why didn’t anyone tell me he was an n-word?”

          Yes, President Johnson really was that tacky.

          • Alexandra1973

            Probably got on well with Prince Philip.

          • David Ashton

            Or Laurence Olivier who, when blacked up to play Othello and told he looked like a West Indian bus conductor, went around saying “Tickets please” and “No standing on the top deck.”

            Now of course you have Africans playing Shakepeare’s English Kings, Hamlet, Romeo (with a white Juliet, of course) and Lear, though not Shylock, Iago or Caliban for some reason.

          • stewball

            You made me laugh out loud.

          • stewball

            Is he a racist? Never thought of him being like that.

    • Andy

      That is about the skin color of modern Egyptians.

      • Erasmus

        And when they give them the skin color of modern Egyptians, they won’t look like modern Egyptians, instead just like a bunch of white people about to put on a minstrel show.

    • Rhialto

      A comment to the original article pointed out that the subjects of these reconstructions date from the first millennium. At this time there was considerable penetration into Egypt from Rome and Greece. Therefore these reconstructions may not represent typical humans from ancient Egypt.

  • Katherine McChesney

    Didn’t Ramses have caucasoid features.

    • Erasmus

      Yes. Ramses also had red hair.

      • So CAL Snowman

        And he was buried in what scholars believe to be the first klan hood.

        • stewball

          Hoot!

      • stewball

        As did King David!

        • David Ashton

          And possibly the “son of David” greeted in first-century Galilee.

          • stewball

            Anything’s possible. Spartacus may be a relative of King Solomon!!!?

          • David Ashton

            This comment had vanished when I looked a second time, and I have rescued it from Disqus. Palestinian Jews of antiquity normally had black hair but blue eyes were not rare (Ethelbert Stauffer, “Jesus and His Story” [1960] p.56). However, Nordid features were then widespread across the eastern Mediterranean area and its environs, for various reasons. Your “lot” originally claimed that the Galilean teacher was the child of a Roman soldier (Peter Schafer, “Jesus in the Talmud” [2007] pp.20-21). The greeting of Jesus as the “son of David” in the NT may refer not simply to his messianic significance but to his physical appearance with fair hair like the OT hero.

          • stewball

            I have no idea who came up with that ridiculous idea that jesus was the son of some roman. I’ve never heard that and certainly not heard it in Israel. Children learn about him in history lessons but only as an historical figure. Nobody here seems to doubt hisfdad was Jewish we just don’t believe in the virgin birth and for us we’re still waiting for the messiah to turn up. There are writings that he may u had some of David’s blood in him but I don’t think it’s ever been pursued, as far as I know. But then I know very little. Right?

          • stewball

            Now what did I say so terrible that they deleted my comment?

          • David Ashton

            No idea, and I presumed your Google reference was to the Wiki entry on the face of Jesus not to the various sons of the OT king. These comments still seem to be jumbled about.

          • stewball

            No. His ‘son’ had dark hair according to Google.

          • David Ashton

            Google has no better knowledge than anyone else. The skull dug up in Jerusalem used to model an ugly and criminal visage has no anthropological or statistical relevance, and probably conceals a deliberate antichristian debunking motive. If Jesus had been physically grotesque, the early rabbinical attacks culminating in the Babylonan Talmud and the Toldoth Yeshu would have said so, and children, women and tough fishermen would have been less attracted to him. Cf.Luke 2.40,52.

          • stewball

            I don’t know what you are talking about to be honest.
            I wasn’t talking about Jesus. I was talking about David’s real son. Goodness me. What was that all about?

          • David Ashton

            I referred to the “Son of David” greeted as such in FIRST CENTURY Galilee, i.e. Jesus, according to the NT. The discussion was about the appearance of Jesus, and this was relevant.

          • stewball

            Why on earth would they do that? What is unacceptable us discussing the NT v the OT.
            When man wrote the NT they had no idea what had been written in the OT. I’m not that interested in the NT. As we said David was ginger. Jesus was dark. How can anybody say he was the son of David when everyone knows that he is the son of Elohim!

          • stewball

            Sorry. Forgot a sentence.
            And that is written in the NT!

          • David Ashton

            A pity you have little interest in and apparently no knowledge of the NT, or you would see that all its documents are totally saturated with references to, quotations of or themes from the OT. By “son of David” the NT references mean that Jesus was a descendant of David and/or that he was the Messiah and/or (as I suggest) resembled the OT description of David which made him especially noticeable to his contemporaries.

          • stewball

            I bow to your greater knowledge.

          • David Ashton

            You’re welcome. “One must accept the truth from whatever source it comes.” – Rambam.

          • stewball

            You are extraordinarily well read. What did you read at university?

          • David Ashton

            English Language & Literature, MA (Oxon). But other subjects interested me even more.

          • stewball

            Gosh I can see that. I was a bad student.
            I wonder if you’re older than me?

          • David Ashton

            I prefer to keep my personal biography out of this website unless items of specific information are relevant to debate on issues of general interest.

    • Spartacus

      Most Pharaohs of Egypt that I’ve read about were described as having red hair .

      • Sick of it

        Indeed, for they were the children of Ham.

        • Katherine McChesney

          Children of Ham would be black. I don’t believe the Pharoahs were black. I think that is black mythology.

          • Sick of it

            Where in the Bible does it say the children of Ham are black? The Canaanites were not black.

          • stewball

            Yes. Solly was a naughty boy but he did build the first temple.Much good it did us

          • Sick of it

            “And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:” Psalm 78:51

            “Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.” Psalm 105:23

            “They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt; Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red sea.” Psalm 106:21-22

            “And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.

            And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah, And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.

            And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.

            And Canaan begat Sidon his first born, and Heth, And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite, And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite, And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.

            And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.

            These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.” Gen 10:6-20

          • stewball

            See. Gaza is ours.

          • Andy

            Children of Ham would be Hamitic, like the Canaanites. They would definitely be Caucasoid.

  • Erasmus

    Of course they don’t look African.

    Ancient Africans may have been able to fly around the pyramids, *snorfle*, but they certainly never had the brains to build one.

    • Oh the flying Africans that built the pyramids but still live in mud huts.

      Thanks for the laugh.

      • So CAL Snowman

        Only because the White man “stole” the technology, thus preventing the Africans from ever trying to replicate the technology they created!

        • Franklin_Ryckaert

          Yes, if you are able to concoct the absurd lie that knowledge can be “stolen” (and thus lost to the owner !), then that proves you are not very intelligent and thus never could have possessed knowledge in the first place. But you cannot explain that to these people.

          • stewball

            What about all that was lost from China and Greece.

    • David Ashton

      The Zimbabwe “ruins” were not launch pads for their space craft, then?

      • Whirlwinder

        really good one!

      • dd121

        Before the PC seized modern historiography, Zimbabwe was shown to be an Arab trading station. Sorry blackies, Zimbabwe was no ancient black african example of advanced black civilization.

        • Andy

          From the evidence that I can find (which is very little since Zimbabwe keeps researchers out) it looks like Great Zimbabwe was built by the Lemba, a group with Semitic male heritage. The artifacts there show a culture with mixed Shona-like Bantu and Jewish features, and the Lemba are the only group that match that description.

          • Sick of it

            The Karanga/Shona weren’t in the area until the 12th century A.D. They had nothing to do with its construction.

          • Andy

            I thought the Shona were descended from the people of the Gokomere culture?

          • Sick of it

            Yes, they are and yet it is said that the Gokomere did not themselves build any stone structures. Yet they were the only Bantus in the area at the time the “Great Zimbabwe” was constructed. The Gokomere gave rise to several tribes, including the Mashowna.

            Again, you’re contemplating extremely simple people doing the equivalent of building a medieval castle while running around in loincloths with crappy spears. And living in simple huts for that matter.

            Their main evidence for a people like this building the structures is that they found pots like those made by these people in the area. I guess in the future it will be determined that black South Africans developed the machinery used in South African mines.

          • Andy

            The Lembas’ paternal ancestry is half Semitic. They were probably Jews and maybe Arabs who took black wives.

        • Sick of it

          “The Great Zimbabwe” (a name Europeans first heard in the 16th century from locals at the time) is much older than they try to claim.

          www (DOT) jstor (DOT) org/discover/10 (DOT) 2307/3889086?uid=3739688&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102790441553

          Radiocarbon dating of the wood alone dates it to 535 AD +/- 160 years. That’s long before the tribe encountered by the Portuguese lived in the area! It sounds like they were reaching to try to date the fantastic stonework to the later medieval period so they could connect it to some Bantus who had never lived in a high civilization nor created buildings of this nature.

          Furthermore, 500 years ago people were certain that this area was the original location of Solomon’s mines.

    • Andy

      Why did you put the word “ruins” in quotes?

      • Franklin_Ryckaert

        Because what appears to be a “ruin” is the original building!

  • 3D printing be rayciss.

  • Andy

    They do look African. They look like the people originally called Africans – North African caucasoids.

    • dmxinc

      Egyptians today don’t look “Egyptian.” Just as Americans won’t look “American” within a couple of centuries.

      For much the same reasons too.

      At least we will have our old Hollywood movies so people can see what we were really like. No 3D printers needed.

      • Franklin_Ryckaert

        Modern Egyptians are on average 20% black. Look at a picture of an Egyptian crowd, you will hardly see one individual who has no kinky hair. Mixture with blacks started already when the ancient Egyptians imported Nubians from the South (modern Sudan) as slaves and to serve in the army. Copts still have preserved their Caucasian features better than the Muslims, but on the whole Egypt is no more a “white” country.

        • David Ashton

          A conundrum for some regular readers: are the Israelis whiter than the Arabs?

      • Alfred the Great

        Once the conquest is complete, they will have to remove all evidence of the truth, so that means they will probably burn all of the evidence.

      • Jefferson

        So who did the ancient Egyptians resemble ? Did they resemble the Swedes ?

    • Katherine McChesney

      I had an Egyptian neighbor in Santa Monica with the name Barsoum. Her skin was reddish and she was one of the least attractive and most masculine women I’ve ever seen. She was a paranoid schizophrenic, a bully, she would bum money and food from White neighbors. She was a problem neighbor. I laughingly call her the ‘daughter of Satan’ for the problems she caused a number of her neighbors.

  • D.B. Cooper

    These mummies are only 2,000 years old. The great red haired Ramses II had already been dead nearly 1,000 years, and we all know it takes less than a century to racially transform a nation.

    • Alexandra1973

      I can tell you right now that nose ain’t negroid.

      • stewball

        It looks roman to me

  • Andy

    They look quite Coptic to me.

    • Erasmus

      Are Egyptians who are Copts a more ancient people than their Muslim countrymen? IOW, are the Muslims just really Arab, half-blacks that later swept into the country?

      • Alfred the Great

        White people were the ancient Egyptians. Herodotus, circa 450 B.C., wrote about the blacks in Ethiopia with wooly hair, another group of them in Arabia that had straight hair (he couldn’t explain the difference in their hair), and brown people way off to the east. The rest of the people of the world were white.

        I believe that over the centuries the different races that we have today came about from mingling among the original races, which were whites, blacks, and browns.

        • Sangraal

          Herodotus also described the Egyptians as ‘wooly-haired’. However, while it’s easy for modern readers to equate ‘wooly’ with ‘kinky’, I don’t think the texture of wool is nescessarily more similar to Negroid hair than to Caucasian hair. There are plenty of white people who could be described as ‘wooly-haired’.

          • Alfred the Great

            Please give me the site for that, if you have the time. Because I don’t remember Herodotus writing that the Egyptians had wooly hair. Appreciate it.

          • Sangraal

            I don’t have the book to hand, but this blog mentions it – scroll down to the sub-heading ‘The Herodotus quote’. As the article asserts, it is erroneous to infer that they were black from this line.

            http://mathildasanthropologyblog (dot) wordpress (dot) com/2008/03/04/descriptions-of-ancient-egyptians-by-others/

          • Alfred the Great

            Interesting article. Here’s the rub. In the article you reference, the writer cites the word used by Herodotus, “Histories” (2.104), with the word “woolly.” However, in my translation, from 1890, the word used is “curly.” The quote I was talking about is from Herodotus, “Histories” (7.70), which is the word “woolly.” His quote: “…but those from Libya have hair more thick and woolly than that of any other men.” When you compare the Greek, they are not the same word either. For what it’s worth, my opinion is that use of the word curly is more appropriate than woolly in 2.104. Thanks for sharing the information with me because I sincerely appreciate it.

      • Andy

        DNA evidence shows mostly population continuity from ancient to modern Egypt (but as far as I know doesn’t differentiate between groups). However, there was some change with an influx of Arabs when Muslims conquered the country, and the Copts are descended from those Egyptians who did not convert to the conquerors’ religion and most likely did not intermarry with them as much. They consider themselves the natives. Therefore I find it likely they are more closely related, although probably not much.

        Arabs are not half black, though. Southern Arab groups just didn’t evolve away from old black-looking features as much as some other groups did.

        • dmxinc

          Muslims obliterated entire towns; leaving no survivors.

          A genetic marker from Egyptian mummies occurs in over 85% of European males and less than 1% of Egyptian males.

          Egyptians were replaced long ago. At least the name stayed intact.

          • Alfred the Great

            You are correct. I think that many people have a problem realizing that most peoples of today are not the same peoples that were in certain countries during ancient times.

          • Sangraal

            What do folks on here think about the racial type of the Ancient Greeks? Do you think they looked like the Greeks of today, or do modern Greeks have significant Turkic admixture? I read this article recently which debunks the notion that they were Nordic-

            Racial Type of the Ancient Hellenes

            http://dienekes (dot) awardspace (dot) com/articles/hellenes/

          • Alfred the Great

            From the article for which you gave the link: “Greek art furnishes important information about the racial type of the ancient Hellenes. Coon in [4] observed that the beauty ideal of a straight nose and a lithe body was borrowed from Minoan Crete which was undisputably peopled by Mediterraneans ”
            A recent study revealed that the Minoans were R1b. It surprised me and that is a reason why I remember it. I don’t think that R1b is a Mediterranean haplogroup.
            In my current research, I read Homer’s, Illiad. An old version is best because the older ones haven’t had revisions for political correctness. Agamemnon, Menelaus, and Achilles had either blonde hair or red hair. I am not positive because the Greek word often was used to mean one or the other by different writers. And I think that Athena was the one with either blue or gray eyes.
            It is a difficult maze to navigate, to say the least. I still haven’t finalized my conclusions on who the Hellenes actually were, but I think that I am getting closer.

          • Sick of it

            It should be noted that the Minoans and Mycenaeans were two different peoples. The Greeks we know came from a mixture of the ancient Mycenaeans and the Dorian invaders if I recall correctly.

          • Garrett Brown

            That happened mostly in southern Greece. Thebes, Sparta, and Athens were heavily Dorian.

          • David Ashton

            Nordid and Mediterranid whites have a fairly similar skeletal structure, and have a shared biological origin. It has been argued that the fusion of these types in ancient Greece and elsewhere was a stimulus to cultural creativity, whereas a cross between much more genetically distant peoples (such as Negrids and Nordids) produces no such effect.

          • Garrett Brown

            All evidence, left by the Greeks and supported by neighboring civilizations, especially the Romans and Persians, to them being caucasoids.

          • Andy

            Yes, but that was one mummy. Most of the mummies don’t have R1b y-dna. My guess is that there was a Indo-European ruling elite for a while.

          • David Ashton

            Same with Hittites and Sumerians?

          • Andy

            ? Did they find R1b y-dna among the Sumerians?
            The Hittites were Indo-European.

        • Alfred the Great

          When I was over in Ukraine, I saw some Arab muslims walking around in their garbs. When I saw them, I remember thinking that they had black in them. There is no question in my mind that they have blacks in their background.

      • Whirlwinder

        The Copts are the conquered race of Egypt and, of course, predated Islam. Over the years, I am sure that they intermarried somewhat with muslims, since muslims are the “superior” race. In other words, they were forced to marry muslims.

        • Franklin_Ryckaert

          No, that must not have been the case. Muslims have an “imperialist” marriage policy : a Muslim man may marry a non-Muslim woman because it is assumed that she will adopt the religion of her husband, but a Muslim woman may never marry a non-Muslim man. Thus there is a flow only into one direction : to the Muslims. Copts therefore cannot have married Muslims and remained Christian.

          • rightrightright

            But Coptic women could be impregnated by rape, with no recourse to the (sharia) law for recompense. A non-moslem could not raise a complaint against a moslem at law.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            I don’t know how it was in the past, but in the present even rape is used by Muslims in an “imperialistic” manner. They do it as follows : a Muslim man rapes a Coptic girl. Her family now has only two choices : kill their daughter because she has “lost her honor”, OR let her marry her Muslim raper. Most will choose the second. The Muslim man now marries his victim, but insists that she converts to Islam. Shortly after his marriage he divorces her (in Islam divorce is very simple : a man has only to say three times to his wife “I divorce you” and it is done). The Coptic girl now has become a Muslim and because apostasy in Islam is punished by death she will stay Muslim for the rest of her life. The Muslim raper now looks for another victim to repeat the same procedure. Remember in Islam victims of rape are “guilty”, not the rapers.

          • There is another option. If someone raped Ariadne or Sayaka, I’d torture him to death. No problems.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            That is the “Christian” option, I suppose.

          • stewball

            No turn the other cheek in this. And I’m not Christian.

          • stewball

            Talking about Muslims and rape you do know what’s happening in Egypt right?

          • Whirlwinder

            Quite true my friend. The Christian women were all forced to become muslims.

          • frederickdixon

            Quite true, except that Christian women married into Moslem families do not always adopt their husband’s faith. This is because in Moslem societies a woman’s religion signifies nothing. So in some places, such as Albania, it is very common to find bi-denominational families where the husband and his sons are Moslem but the wife and her daughters are Christian.
            The Copts present a genetic picture of the Egyptians as they were down to the Arab conquest in the late seventh century, i.e. already very mixed but lacking the Arab, Kurdish and Turkish elements which came in under Moslem rule; they also very probably have a lower Negro element than Moslem Egyptians.

      • David Ashton

        Yes, more or less. But the Arab conquerors in the seventh century could not then reasonably be described as half-negro.

    • They are Mediterranean caucasians like Greeks.

      • dd121

        I believe the Greeks have undergone a huge transformation since 450 BC, too. You can see by the comments that there is a lot of confusion regarding both origins and the intervening changes to population DNA genetic shifts over the millennia. I know that this information is actually well understood based on DNA evidence of ancient remains and massive sampling of contemporary populations. I wish someone would publish the definitive treatise on the subject but I suspect that too many PC toes would be stepped on for that to happen.

        • rightrightright

          Greece was occupied by the Ottomans from the 15th to the 19th century. Unfortunately as a consequence, Greeks these days have a strong central Asian element in their appearance.

          • Franklin_Ryckaert

            No they haven’t. The Turks themselves have very little Mongolian blood. Only a small group of Turkish invaders imposed their Altaic language on the predominantly Caucasoid population of Turkey, and those invaders themselves may have been heavily mixed with Caucasoid blood as all Turkish peoples of Central Asia are.

          • The “Turkish” description is not a useful one as race goes. They look reasonably white in eastern Thrace, and quite Asiatic in Sinkiang. “Hispanic” is also not a racial term. It refers to the language. White Argentinians are “Hispanic” to the same degree as black Dominicans.

        • Garrett Brown

          You are extremely correct. The Greeks of today are nothing like the original crop.

  • David Ashton

    In their ethnic paintings Egyptians depict themselves as “red” which distinguishes them from Nordids but suggests they are Mediterranean Caucasids. Raymond Dart was reported to have identified Nordid skulls in early Egypt. However, there is something about the lips particularly on statues of Akhenaten, Amonhotep III and Tuthmose that do not strike us entirely European. Comments from real experts welcome.

    • Andy

      They probably weren’t European and especially not entirely European. As for the lips, however, I’ve noticed this with ancient statues all over: the features tend to be unrealistically broad. It’s probably hard to carve fine features in stone without breaking them off.

      • David Ashton

        Interesting last point. Arno Breker managed it, but it must be difficult.

    • Sick of it

      There are white people with full lips…

      • NM156

        Jagger, Tyler, et al.

        • Katherine McChesney

          Angelina Jolie.

          • Garrett Brown

            Had a good laugh, thanks.

          • Garrett Brown

            That was funny

  • Defoe

    So, once again we are confirmed as the purveyors of civilization.

  • Garrett Brown

    But but but, my history teacher taught me Egyptians were black! 3D printing be racis.

    • dd121

      Your teachers lied to you.

    • Alfred the Great

      Yes, and I knows they be black because National Geographic Channel portrayed them as black.

      • dd121

        Then National Geographic lied, too.

  • Sick of it

    They conveniently left out the red hair that has been found on Egyptian mummies.

    • Kenner

      …Henna?

      • Sick of it

        Nope, actual red hair.

    • Alfred the Great

      I saw a documentary about Egyptian mummies on National Geographic Channel that had a cover story for their red hair. Are you ready for this? The hair of the mummies turned red because of mummification and time. What a load of you know what. The assault against the truth is never ending.

      • Sick of it

        R1b suggests the potential for red hair all by itself. But yeah, the Marxists rule the profession today.

      • Katherine McChesney

        ‘The hair of the mummies turned red because of mummification and time.’

        Like they would know. They also say we come from Africa. But is another lie blacks, NGC, PBS and NPR perpetuate.

        • Sick of it

          Mankind started in Eden. Havilah (Gen 2:11) may very well be in Africa, which means we may very well have started out there. Africa does not equate to black, as many of the findings we post have clearly shown. In fact, the modern Negroid is the most recent racial type to come into existence. Coon said as much himself.

          • David Ashton

            Some people argue that only “white” people descend from “Adam” and that other races have a separate origin. But surely the OT “Eden” is mythical, with God walking around it and a talking reptile?

          • The Garden was in what is now the Persian Gulf, which was dry and fertile bottom land until the end of the last Ice Age. It must have been very nice. Large parts of the North Sea were also dry and fertile at the same time. Six million years ago, most of the Mediterranean Sea was dry, except for two deep salt lakes.

        • David Ashton

          Well, if “we” did, “we” must have evolved further than “them” who stayed behind.

  • OhWow

    Scientists see them as European-like and so did the ancient Egyptians themselves (prominent nose, more narrow skull, etc.). The only people who see them as black are black people.

    • Alfred the Great

      And the progressives.

      • ms_anthro

        Let’s call them what they really are: enablers.

        • Kenner

          ‘White Liberals–Enabling Black Racists Since 1968!’

          • Brian

            1868 is more like it.

      • David Ashton

        The “progressives” are liars. The black people are just sadly equipped with a sense of inferiority.

    • Erasmus

      The only people who see them as black are black people.

      The blacks see Beethoven as black. Yet, these are the future of medicine, engineering and science in the US. Pathetic.

      • libertarian1234

        If they are the future in medicine engineering and science, then there is no future, because they can’t competently learn all three fields.

        No, the black future is one of dysfunction as a people, because that’s where they are right now and they’re slowly declining.

        The black race in the US is imploding due to an inability to learn and a propensity for crime and violence, whether they’re poor or not.

      • Garrett Brown

        So what that means, is no more engineering or science advances in the U.S.

        • David Ashton

          Unless you sell out to China as the UK seems to be doing.

          • Garrett Brown

            The us already sold out to china, a long time ago.

          • David Ashton

            China is to some extent a Frankenstein monster created by people in the west, like Soviet Russia before it, and the remedy is for a united white world to withdraw its life-support and use it for the benefit of our own populations. Easier said than done, but conceivable.

          • Garrett Brown

            We gave them the jobs and infrastructure for technologically equivalent factories for mass labor and they intelligently ran with it. Thus, they will be the new superpower.

      • David Ashton

        Pushkin and Dumas are the closest they can get, but give credit where it is due. I have an excellent book on Romans and Blacks by an African scholar of European classical literature.

  • bigone4u

    I love it when science disproves Bantu foolishness. You can bet this real science will not make it into university afro studies courses. They’d rather stay self-deluded.

  • Skip Wellington

    The woman in the front looks like Kim Kardashian (with Downs Syndrome).

  • HJ11

    Except for the eye color, and the hair that’s a little too dark and too curly, the good looking one in the middle could be several people in my family.

  • Keep Honkin I’m Reloading

    “They do not look African.”

    And?
    Did anyone besides afro-americans ever think they were?

  • Tim_in_Indiana

    The technological progress is simply astounding. Scientists already have a complete genome of the Neanderthal. At the current rate of progress, one day they will be able to feed such a genome into a computer and get a complete simulation of the donor’s race, hair and eye color, body type, appearance, likely height and weight, personality type and IQ. It’s coming, perhaps sooner than we think.

    • David Ashton

      Bring it on!

  • Sick of it

    Axumite Jar Spout
    Amenirdis I 714-700 (Kushite priestess)
    Amenirdis I again
    Sculpture 1 from royal baths of Meroe (Kushite)
    Sculpture 2 from royal baths of Meroe (Kushite)

    This excludes the numerous bas reliefs with only 2 dimensional depictions of white people from the region as well as goddess statues which were clearly not altered to fit with a black population. It also excludes statues of their rulers which have been removed from the Google search algorithm because they are far too inconvenient.

    • Andy

      Nubians and Aksumites (modern Tigray-Tigrinya and Amhara) are dark-skinned Caucasoids. Their ancestors left Africa and returned after the change in skull shape but before the changes in skin color, hair color, and (for the most part) intelligence. They are more closely related to southern Arabs than to Negro groups.

      • Sick of it

        Not sure about them leaving Africa at any point, but nearly half of the sampled population in one study showed J1 Y DNA for modern Nubians (and that’s after a lot of changes to the population).

  • ms_anthro

    We would know.

    • stewball

      How would you know?

      • ms_anthro

        Most mixed people who think they can pass for White really can’t, especially to the racially aware observer.

    • stewball

      We would know! What kind of idiotic statement is that and are you using the royal we?

      • ms_anthro

        Why did you reply to this twice? Anyway, the “we” in question know who “we” are. We don’t need your permission to define ourselves.

  • Talltrees

    Isn’t Greek assigned to Cleopatra’s ancestry? These three ladies resemble Greeks. One thing for sure, they are not Black.

    • Garrett Brown

      Cleopatra was Greek yes, descended from Ptolemy’s ancestry. The last pharaoh under the Ptolemic dynasty, and the last pharaoh of Egypt entirely. After that of course, it had governors assigned by Rome. The first two being Gallus and his son. Sorry, I absolutely love Greek/Roman history.

  • I doubt they were ethnic Egyptians. As Talltrees points out, they’re probably Greek, or partly Greek.

    • Katherine McChesney

      Who were the Shepherd Kings who were Pharoah’s?

  • pcmustgo

    Half Indians can go either way in that respect.

  • Talltrees

    Frontal view: All of them look Greek. Particularly the gray haired lady.

    • Talltrees

      Photos of Greek Maria Callas

  • ShermanTMcCoy

    But, but, but . . .

    We beez ‘gipshuns ‘n sheeit!

  • JohnEngelman

    The argument that Negroes created the civilization of Egypt is preposterous. If they created the first civilization, why have they been so uncivilized since?

    • David Ashton

      They didn’t – simple as that. Their pictorial illustrations clearly show a distinction between negroes and themselves, with the former being shown sometimes as slaves.

      • JohnEngelman

        Nubia conquered Egypt and occupied it for a century. That was the only time there was a Negro dynasty in Egypt. Nubian civilization was almost entirely learned from Egypt.

        • libertarian1234

          Actually it was the Semitic/Arabic Hyksos who conquered Egypt, about 1785 B.C., and ruled for about two hundred years. They had created an alliance with several Nubian Kings beforehand, plus they were equipped with horses and chariots they had obtained in their many skirmishes and battles with invading Indo-European tribes who had brought them into the area.

          When the Hyksos were driven out, Egypt punished the Nubians for helping the Hyksos in a series of campaigns all the way into Nubia where they decimated the tribes and brought back thousands that were used as slaves.

          But I agree that any civilization the Nubians had were obtained from Egypt.

          • Andy

            The 25th dynasty about a thousand years later was also Nubian.

    • Franklin_Ryckaert

      Because as they say their knowledge was “stolen” from them by evil Whites. If this crazy idea contributes to the restoration of their “self-esteem” so be it. But in the eyes of Whites they only make themselves ridiculous.

    • Chris Granzow XI

      The same school of thought that makes blacks consider bill clinton “black” is the same logic used upon the ancient egyptians.

    • Whitey stold all dat stuff from dem, gnome sayin?

      Even Egyptian civilization is not so old as that of Sumer, and Iraqis did that.

  • David Ashton

    “The Copts…represent in a physical sense their already mixed ancestors, the Ancient Egyptians…most of them with curly hair…lips of medium thickness, and moderate beard development. They look like what they are – the product of an ancient blend of Caucasoid and indigenous African elements, reinforced from time to time by Caucasoid elements from Europe and Western Asia….” – Carleton S. Coon, “The Living Races of Man” (1966) p.119.

    “The Europid element in the Egyptians from predynastic times onwards has been primarily Mediterranid, though it is allowed that Orientalid immigrants…made a contribution…. The Negrid contribution to the stock was a small one….” – John R. Baker, “Race” (1974) p.518. “The Orientalids…are very dolichocranial… The lower lip is not everted” – ibid, p.242.

    But Orientalids often show lip formations similar to those on ancient Egyptian statues. “The lips are…often arched and pointed in a smile…. The underlip…sometimes leaves the impression of being slightly protruded” – Hans F. K. Guenther, “Racial Elements of European History” (1927) p.70.

    “Some of the most talented populations have abstained from extensive intermarriage ….the Copts, the Icelanders and the Parsis…. Approximately 10 percent of the population of Egypt are Coptic Christians. These have contributed much to the leadership of Egypt, especially in commercial and intellectual activities” – David C. Rife, in R. E. Kuttner (ed) “Race and Modern Science” (1967) p.166.

  • David Ashton

    I noticed that Christian Copts have pictures of Jesus with blond hair and blue eyes. In Muslim tradition too Jesus is “white”.

    • Sick of it

      An interesting aside to that statement is that the Egyptians were some of the first foreign converts to Christianity. They may have actually known what he looked like via the Apostle Mark.

    • Sangraal

      A South Asian Muslim, who seemed very knowledgable on the subject, told me that Mohammed himself was white, with blue eyes. I have no idea where he got this information from, a quick google search yielded nothing, except for this article on Nordic admixture among Arabs-

      http://marchofthetitans (dot) com/earlson/nordicarabs (dot) htm

      The only physical description that mentions his eyes describe them as black.

      It does seem that Mohammed’s complexion was described as ‘white’, but this may be figurative. If literal, it probably means he was a pale-skinned Arab, rather than a white European.

    • Katherine McChesney

      That photo is a Catholic invention. Jesus would most likely have olive complexion, dark brown hair and dark brown eyes.

      • David Ashton

        The pictures I saw were not “photos” of Cesare Borgia. The actual appearance of Jesus is unknown, but there is no ethnological reason to suppose that he could not have had blue eyes.

    • stewball

      That’s the catholics again
      Good God it’s hot here. Just an aside.

  • Erasmus

    A black woman at work told me that Jesus was black because the Bible said he had wooly hair…..

    Christ on a cracker, do people get any dumber than that? But, let me guess, because she’s black, she is, doubtlessly, at least an AVP?

  • Brian

    I’ve heard this from the local Shanequias too. First, this is a vision of Jesus (mental image, not physically seen), and it’s one of a post-death, heavenly/spiritual form, not an earthly body. Second, they ignore the bit about his head and hair being ‘white as snow’, instead focusing on the wool as a _texture_, thus an afro. Reading is fundamental. They also take this ‘feet like unto fine brass’ as meaning he’s golden…thus black. Quite a stretch.

    Revelation ch. 1:

    His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

    And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

    And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

    • Andy

      “White like wool” is not “wooly”. Thanks for posting this. I was sitting here wondering where in the Bible Jesus is described as having wooly hair.

  • Franklin_Ryckaert

    These non-European Caucasoids are mostly mixed, but unmixed populations still exist : among the Berbers of the Atlas mountains, among Lebanese and Syrians, and in the Caucasus. Turks are mostly Caucasoids as are many Iranians. Indians are hopelessly mixed with Australoids.

    • Jefferson

      If Lebanese and Syrians were unmixed, they would resemble Swedes. The fact that on average they are swarthy and not extremely pink and pasty like an Irish redhead, is evidence that they are not pure White.

  • libertarian1234

    “Egyptians were brown just like they are even today.”

    The people in Egypt today are a mix of Indo-European, Arab, Semitic, and a bit of black. They’re not the same people of yesteryear anymore than the entire Mediterranean area is..,…or Iran, Afghanistan, and some parts of India.

    Indo-Europeans migrated to those areas, after flooding in the Caspian/Black seas area, beginning several thousand years BC. The Egyptian pre-dynastic and early dynasties were mostly, if not wholly, Indo-European.

    Many from other races inundated the area, plus blacks brought up from Nubia as a result of conquest by the Egyptians. All played a role in the mixing to change the population. As in the US today, pure Indo-Europeans were slowly bred nearly out of existence with only a trace evident in the people of today.

    King Tut ruled at a time when the population was just beginning to change. He shares DNA with up to 70% of Europeans.

    • Franklin_Ryckaert

      I don’t know in what sense you use the term “Indo-European” (probably in the sense of “unmixed Caucasian”), but used in the traditional sense, the only Indo-Europeans who entered Egypt were Persians, Greeks and Romans. But they mostly entered as conquerors and not as settlers, though some Greeks settled in a few cities such as Alexandria but in too small numbers to change the population racially. There never were pharaohs who were “Indo-European”, otherwise we would have recognized that from their names. The original Egyptians were Hamitic speaking Mediterraneans who later mixed with negroes. Mathilde’s Anthropological Blog estimates the amount of negro blood of the ancient Egyptians at 5%, while that of modern Egyptians at 20%.

      • libertarian1234

        “I don’t know in what sense you use the term “Indo-European” (probably in the sense of “unmixed Caucasian”),”
        If you mean “Nordic,” by “unmixed Caucasian,” no I’m not referring to a specific category. There were three basic groups of Caucasians in the Mediterranean area.
        There was, of course, migration all around the Mediterranean from the Caucuses area, including Egypt. It’s also logical to expect that they would not ignore the fertile areas around the Mediterranean in their trek south, going into all other areas and ignoring the most fertile places.
        Their ag equipment and tools have been discovered in numerous places that could only belong to them. But I think it just clouds the issue to regard Caucasians as mixed or unmixed when they all belong to an extended family which has so many close similarities they amount to an extended family.
        And as far as language and names are concerned, Egyptian is not an Indo-European language, but from 5600 BC to 3100 BC….over two thousand years…. in the pre-dynastic period, any Indo-European language could well have been dropped or altered in the process of picking up the more Asiatic Egyptian language.
        Frankly, I don’t know, but I’ll dig further into the subject to find out. However, there’s no question that Indo-Europeans settled all around the Mediterranean. Certainly that explains King Tut’s shared DNA with up to 70% of Europeans today.

        “….but used in the traditional sense, the only Indo-Europeans who entered Egypt were Persians, Greeks and Romans.”
        These groups were conquerors and not part of the earlier migrations thousands of years earlier. The mummies in question were about two thousand years old and they look to be of the same types of Caucasoid as King Tut, whose reign was about 1330 BC onward, so they seem typical of the types in that region.
        We’ll know more about the whole affair every year from here on out and eventually, as someone else has pointed out, we’ll be able to get everything down to the eye color and other details so we’ll know for certain.
        But the bottom line is that the Egyptians of today DO NOT look like the ones of ancient times, as Tut clearly shows and the three mummies depicted above.

  • stewball

    Where did you get your first name from?

  • libertarian1234

    Sounds like the ones in the flash mobs of today.

  • libertarian1234

    “The black kingdom of Axum (Nubia), to the extreme south of Egypt, overran and controlled Egypt for a few hundred years. ”

    That one must have gotten by me.

    Do you have any supporting data for that?

    A few Nubians tribes signed on to assist the Hyksos in their takeover of Egypt at one point, but it’s news to me if they “controlled” Egypt for hundreds of years.

  • Andy

    Persians and Afghanis are Indo-European, not Afro-Asiatic.

    • David Ashton

      The Finns are not Indo-European lingusitically but white Caucasids racially.

  • Sick of it

    Some of us know the difference between “Italian” and Italian. That includes the folks from Sicily who are obviously mixed.

    • frederickdixon

      I was in Sicily a few months ago and the women – many of whom are very good looking – looked completely white to me even though you wouldn’t mistake them for Norwegians. Didn’t notice what the men looked like.

  • odious liberal

    The negroes aren’t going to like this.

    • Katherine McChesney

      It would make them even more violent than they are. This was all they had to fall back on. Their lives revolved around this lie.

      • libertarian1234

        Right on.
        But I notice that they’re coming out now trying to fit in black heads with Cleopatra, Nefertiti, etc., with explanations that are at their usual childish level. And I’m sure they’ll have something that doesn’t add up to explain why DNA can’t be trusted.
        Everything they fail to prove about their bogus claims, they invariably blame whitey for by either covering it all up or altering records and accounts, so no one will know of black genius…..and then stealing it all from them.
        Which is further proof of their lack of intellect, because what they’re proposing is that whites throughout history….in every land…. have been “at the ready” always…… constantly…… to rush in and destroy all proof of black accomplishments.
        I wonder if any one of them even remotely understands that knowledge can’t be stolen in the sense that assets can, because the originator never loses it and it can be passed down to his heirs throughout history.
        And I wonder if any of them has considered that out of all the obnoxious ownership claims of inventions, ideas, art and philosophies,
        not one has made its way into their societies beyond the time they claim to be the originators.

    • Brian

      How would they know about it? They don’t read.

  • ms_anthro

    There are a lot of “White” Spanish-speakers that are clearly mixed but will insist to their dying breath that they have nothing but European DNA. It would be laughable if it weren’t so dangerous.

  • Katherine McChesney

    I’ve never read that in the Bible. That’s just black mythology. They also claim to be the original Hebrews. Another lie from the Hamitic tribe.

  • Alexandra1973

    Mordecai was Esther’s cousin, took care of her after her parents died.

    • stewball

      Nah! Thanks for sharing.
      And then he made her marry Ahasuerus.
      For our good though.

  • Sick of it

    I personally believe that Kurds were a white ethnic group in the past, especially when considering Saladin. Muslim mixing with black slaves is where their Negroid component comes from. It wasn’t originally there.

    • MikeofAges

      The sociobiological basis of Muslim and Arab expansion, in my estimation, is something I term “y-line imperialism”. That is why when they kidnapped and captured they enslaved the women into their harems and collective households, killed or enslaved the older men and made the young men and boys into eunuchs. The men were not particular about whom they mated with and were seemingly oblivious about what the effect of this pattern might be on their civilization and type.

      This pattern is not unique to Muslim Arabs. The same idea is alluded in the Old Testament, where some tribe, after it conquered a particular enemy, was described as slaying the men and making wives of the women. In some cases, the women who already were mothers were eliminated while the virgin females were made into wives and concubines if they were old enough and, if still girls, cultivated for that future purpose.

      Nothing new about this pattern, but it is not how we want to live in the West. To us, type and civilization are everything, or at least should be. Those who live by the principle of this kind of tribal imperialism are primitives, sometimes educated, sophisticated men who cultivate primitivism.

  • Brian

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    • Chris Granzow XI

      Malheureusement pour nous…

  • Andy

    I know a Mediterranean girl (probably Italian) who is often mistaken for Egyptian.

  • Andy

    You mean they think it’s a hoax?

    But Aksum and Nubia aren’t the same place. Aksum was in Eritrea and eastern Ethiopia and lasted from about 100-900 AD.

  • nignogger

    Wrong answer, “dey don’t look negroid”! For years negroes say the Egyptians were of the negro race. Also wrong answer. DNA of pharohs sic and other high ranking mummies prove caucasiod with gene sequence of Turks/and or Macedonia people. I respect the nigroes for their diligence in claiming Egypt success of their ; I fault their poor reasoning (they are stupid people). its understanble due to their low IQ score, DNA evidence don’t lie.

  • nignogger

    the far left figurine has a slight, deep 6 hook on the nose; could she be of the famous askenazi tribe? Land of the Khazars? The dreaded race?

  • stewball

    By whom?

  • JohnEngelman

    According to the out of Africa theory of human origins, modern humans appeared in Africa about 100,000 years ago. DNA evidence indicates that the San Bushmen of southern Africa are the oldest surviving race. By this I mean that one has to go back further with the Bushmen to find a common male and female ancestor. Thus the modern humans were more similar to the Bushmen than to any other race, even the Negroes.

    About 60,000 years ago one hundred to several hundred modern humans crossed the Sinai Peninsula to Asia. It was on the other side of the Sinai Peninsula that Caucasians and Mongoloids evolved.

    10,000 years ago Caucasians in and near what is now Syria began to develop agriculture. The agricultural population expanded, migrating through what is now Turkey into Europe, and back across the Sinai Peninsula to the Nile Delta. They displaced the paleolithic hunters living there, and eventually established the Egyptian civilization.

    • The aborigines have been in Australia for 50,000 years. Did they get there in only 10,000 years with absolutely no agricultural skills?

      Your timeline is wrong.

      • JohnEngelman

        My numbers are approximate. After leaving Africa the ancestors of the Australian Aborigines traveled along the sea shore. They wanted to avoid the Neanderthals. Although the Neanderthals were less intelligent than the modern humans, they were much stronger, so the modern humans tried to avoid them until they developed better weapons.

        The darker skinned east Indians are related to the Aborigines. Finally, the ancestors of the Aborigines reached New Guinea and Australia.

        • David Ashton

          All this reconstruction of prehistory is liable to revision.

  • Bernie

    Scientific data was recently published that said Ramesses II was a red head caucasian

  • David Ashton

    “Consciousness of kind led the ancient Egyptians…to select brunette curly hair…as the epitome of the highest type of humanity…and the black, woolly haired Nashu…appraised as a ‘perverse race’. The Negro visage was carefully painted under the soles of sandals….In the reign of Sesostris III the entire Negro race was proscribed from ever entering the conflines of Egypt.” – From A. James Gregor, “On the Nature of Prejudice”, Eugenics Review, January 1961, p.219.

  • De Doc

    2000 years ago puts us at a time way past the height of Ancient Egypt’s power. These mummies are in the Greco-Roman era and may be a reflection of elite folk who had settled Egypt from Mediterranean Europe since the time of Alexander the Great. Mummification and entombment was not exactly available to the average serf-like Egyptian.

  • David Ashton

    Thanks, Brian: valuable reference, well worth downloading for print files.

  • David Ashton

    That’s nothing. Hussein Obama was Pharoah of the Western World in the 21st century and Will Smith saved the Whole Word from destruction by Space Aliens.

  • David Ashton

    I would simply use the terms Western and Eastern Caucasids. The former group is roughly responsible for our western civilization, the latter for later Hindu and some other eastern cultures.

  • Jefferson

    If ancient Egyptians were Indigenous to the country of Egypt, how would that make them Europeans ?

    Last time I checked Egypt is not geographically located in Europe.

    Fact, Caucasian does not always = European.

  • Jefferson

    If they look like they have some Semitc mixture, than they don’t look White. Only Nordic people look White.

  • ms_anthro

    No.

  • ms_anthro

    It’s a matter of opinion. Those of us with eyes to see can tell our own kind from the assorted mystery meat that wants to pass as White. We don’t require your permission nor your approval to identify ourselves.

    Non-Whites can call themselves White if they wish–and they often do, for obvious reasons–but that doesn’t make it true. And real Whites can tell.

    • stewball

      What’s your sort lol.
      Did you know that in the 60’s a pure white woman and pure white man gave birth twice to twins one black and one white. When they had trouble reclassing
      her they went to court and the expert witness said that most south africans have black blood.

  • ms_anthro

    Your anecdote doesn’t nullify our collective observations or defeat our ability to identify non-Whites among us. I have seen so-called Indian “Whites” and they are clearly not White whatsoever. But then this is a society that actually labeled George Zimmerman a “White Hispanic.”

    We will continue to identify ourselves without seeking your approval. Call yourself whatever you want, but we can tell.

  • ms_anthro

    Wrong. You might find a visit to South Florida enlightening. One can see people who are clearly mestizos or even full indios calling themselves “White” because they came from Cuba. There are White Cubans, of course, but then they are 100% European and look it.

  • Certainly Caucasian. From cheekbones and nose, I’d say Mediterranean white. We don’t all look like Swedes or Finns.

  • Bantu_Education

    She could easily be from Argentina (where I am now) – a significant proportion of the population here is mixed with Indians and blacks – you can see it in the hair mostly, but also the shape of the face – not to mention (although I will) that the country is very run-down and they don’t maintain things, broken pavements, unkempt parks and public green spaces, rubbish strewn everywhere. There is also very little interest in books or knowledge for the sake of it.

  • frederickdixon

    Yes she does but, as I say, you wouldn’t mistake her for a Norwegian.

  • stewball

    What little games dear. Who keeps thrusting Solly and the Queen of sheba down your gullet?

  • stewball

    I enjoy your rambling posts. No need to apologise. Teachers are so stupid, especially in the years I was at school long before you. One of my teachers made me talk to her with my hands behind my back because I used them so much more or less intimating that I did that because of my religion.
    So you want proof of walking on water, turning water into wine, bread into fishes and raising the dead?

  • stewball

    😉

  • stewball

    I worked with a man from Cochin (India for the those who do not know) he had red hair and blue eyes.

    • stewball

      He wasn’t half Indian. There would have been no need for me to have brought him up if he was half!

  • stewball

    As do the beduins to catch the Messiah when they give birth to him.