Mexico: “Mestizo Christianity”

YouTube, September 26, 2013

This video on mestizo Christianity in Mexico demonstrates the intersection between HBD (human biodiversity) and religion. Throughout nearly all of human history, ethno-religion has been the norm. In this video, mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico, while removing European elements from Christianity, incorporate Amerindian elements.

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  • Erasmus

    Mexican Catholicism is a pagan thing. Soon the bishops won’t have to send missionaries abroad. As the country is flooded with Mexicans, the pagans will soon be coming to them.

    • Oil Can Harry

      Coming soon: Aztec human sacrifices in the Home Depot parking lot.

      • William Krapek

        Already on it. They just call them drug gangs now.

      • Bossman

        No! They don’t have to do that anymore. They let the priest drink the wine which is the blood of Christ and they eat the wafers which is the flesh of Christ. Christianity is human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism raised to a symbolic level. Their god Jesus was sacrificed on a cross so they don’t have to continue sacrificing humans, just enact it on a symbolic level during the Catholic mass.

        • stewball

          First of all he wasn’t the only person crucified by the Romans. That was their ‘thing’ so I don’t understand why they made it their religious sign and besides anything else Jesus was one of ours. Why don’t people realize this. Even the new pope sort of admits that.

    • Bossman

      Christianity is just paganism overlaid with some moral philosophy.

      • Erasmus

        Just like Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism.

        • [Guest]

          And Humanism.

        • stewball

          I’m not a pagan!!!!

        • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

          The difference is the historical acts and consequences that came due to Christianity’s relentless efforts to enlarge its very earthly power and influence across the centuries. If a tree is known by its fruit, then we know that Buddhism, Hinduism and even Judaism can’t hold a candle to the blood tide of Christian history on earth. Islam intends to exceed it, but it hasn’t yet by a long shot.

          • [Guest]

            To attribute bad fruit to a good tree or good fruit to a bad tree is to turn the “known by its fruit” analogy on its head. 

What is the purpose of identifying rotten fruit and then only selectively associating it with the tree that bore it? And what’s the point in judging between two pieces of rotten fruit and determining that one is preferable to the other?

            If wrongdoing by a religious person—even when that wrongdoing is in violation of the religion he professes to adhere to—is an indictment of religion in general or the specific religion of the wrongdoer, then all wrongdoing by non-religious people is at least equally condemning of irreligious people.

          • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

            I was using a well known quote from the NT supposedly made my Jesus. Since you are so confused, let me put it this way; if the net historical experience of a religion is violence, murder and war for its sake, it’s logical to conclude that something is basically wrong with the creed, and that is a problem well known and discussed for many years by the best scholars, even theologians. But continuing to insist on the rightness or benefits of a demonstrably bad thing is simply a condition or personal or institutional denial, perhaps due to vested interests, emotionally and materially.

            You must engage in circular logic to insist as you do.

          • [Guest]

            You didn’t address what I said.

          • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

            Yes, I did. You simply can’t follow it. No one said “rotten” fruit, that is your insertion. The quote from the Gospel doesn’t say that the tree is known by its rotten fruit and neither did I. You are playing your own games in your own effort to escape the plain purpose of that Biblical quote and my use of it.

            I can’t make it more plain, but I understand and recognize your need to attempt to deflect its clear implication. You aren’t making any point to me beyond that.

      • stewball

        What morality?

    • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

      Funny, because the Crucifixion is a symbolic human sacrifice. Jesus is commonly referred to as “The Lamb of God,” in liturgy. That stems from the Old Testament examples of the then practice of animal sacrifice by Jews. The OT story of Abraham being ordered by God to sacrifice his son and then relenting is a folk story of how human sacrifice was ended among the proto-Jews. But the Jesus sacrifice has been preserved and carried right into the 21st century. Not only that, but so has symbolic cannibalism. What do you think is meant when Jesus is telling his Decipils that

  • dd121

    The Pope, our “open borders” guy in Rome will look in to this.

  • Spartacus

    “…while removing European elements from Christianity, incorporate Amerindian elements.”

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    So are they gonna celebrate Christmas by cutting people’s hearts out of their chests ?

    • William Krapek

      Well since European history and culture was strongly shaped by Christianity, getting rid of that culture in that religion is impossible.

      • Spartacus

        Don’t bet on it… It’s not like these savages have ever followed any Christian teachings in the first place. They adopted symbols, but nothing else, merely shapes without substance .

        • Sick of it

          Indeed, travelers who observed Latin Americans centuries ago pretty much said the same thing.

          • Bossman

            Christianity is really human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism raised to a symbolic level. The savages of pre-Colombian America did not have much trouble accepting Christianity because it already resembled many of their belief systems.

          • Erasmus

            You really hate Christianity, don’t you, Shlomo?

          • stewball

            Ooh. Who’s Shlomo? And we have the right to hate all Christians.

        • Bossman

          Christianity is about a god sacrificing himself on a cross to save humanity. Those savages of America sacrificed humans so that they too became gods who then redeemed the tribe. At the roots, these beliefs are the same thing.

          • stewball

            He didn’t sacrifice himself. The Romans killed him.

      • Bossman

        All religious beliefs have the same roots.

        • David Ashton

          Why should this be so astonishing in so far as it is true? Read Victor White’s “God and the Unconscious” for a positive view of some pagan resurrection myths and the christian “equivalent”.

        • stewball

          Right. Judaism.

    • Bossman

      No! They don’t have to do that anymore. They let the priest drink the wine which symbolically is the blood of Christ and and they eat the wafers which symbolically is the the flesh of Christ. Christianity raised the ancient and disgusting practice of human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism to a symbolic level.

      • David Ashton

        Catholic churches have largely abandoned communion under one kind.

    • stewball

      You do know that HE wasn’t born on the 25th December don’t you sparticus. By the way he was also crucified.

  • JohnEngelman

    I am fascinated by comparative religion. I have read the major writings of each of the world’s great religions. I respect each of them. I love Christianity in all of its diversity.

    • David Ashton

      What makes your personal interests of such special importance that we need to know about them?

      Presumably you respect what the Koran says polytheists and Jews, and love what the New Testament says about Jews and non-believers.

      • JohnEngelman

        Lots of posters here write, “I only want to live with white people.”

        Well I don’t.

        • Katherine McChesney

          I feel sorry for you, John Engleman. I believe you have a mental illness and an inner hatred of the White race.

        • David Ashton

          Living among culturally different people is not quite the same as studying their beliefs, touring their neighborhoods, or conversing with clever acquaintances. I too have done all three, but still prefer to live in what remains of England, with people who speak my own language, share our national history and have similar values. However, you are free to choose the most multiracial area of the US, and move there for the rest of your life. You would not get such a pigmentary kaleidoscope in “crime-free” China or your beloved Israel.

          • joesolargenius

            I have lived for a substantial amount of time in both Asia and Central America and can tell you from experience that if you leave the tourist area for any length of time you had better be on your toes and prepared for confrontational situations.White people are a target in any Non White populated area !

          • stewball

            Oy. Leave Israel out of it. Before being negative come and visit and see what Israel is really like. Not as scarey as America or England. Think of all the Christian religious places you could visit which you wouldn’t be able to if this was a Muslim country.

          • David Ashton

            Not as scary as England? We don’t have rockets raining down on us.

        • jeffaral

          Agree with you! I personally can’t live without black people, hence I’m moving to Jackson, MS. It’s gonna be pure joy.

          • JohnEngelman

            I have lived with Orientals. Now I live with blacks. There is a difference. I will not let anyone tell me that blacks commit all those crimes because they are poor. The Orientals were poor, and safe to live with.

          • David Ashton

            Sorry, I didn’t realise you live among black people and presumably enjoy their company. Your posts have given us a different impression.

          • JohnEngelman

            It is easier to like young black men when one sees them on television situation comedies, than after dark, when they hanging around on a street corner up ahead, or walking in one’s direction..

            When they are walking behind one, and gaining on one, young black men are even less likable.

            They are least likable punching one in the face and yelling, “Where’s the money?”

          • David Ashton

            Why do you still “live with them” then?

          • JohnEngelman

            No one lives with those people if they can help it. When blacks can afford to move to white neighborhoods, most do.

          • stewball

            That still doesn’t explain why you live with them.

          • David Ashton

            He “loves Jews, Judaism and Israel” and, according to you, there are more than a few black Jews in multicultural Israel, so perhaps he should live among them there. Only problem, I don’t suppose there are many Chinatowns in the West Bank, and he would miss the food and the waitresses.

          • stewball

            Plenty of Chinese restaurants and Chinese cooks and maybe waitresses. Also plenty of sushi bars.

          • David Ashton

            I sit corrected if you can identify the Chinese communities in the West Bank.

      • stewball

        Crap.

  • Zaporizhian Sich

    Look no further than “Santa Muerte,” and you will see the blood lust and savagery of the natives had not been weakened by admixture with Europeans.

  • [Guest]

    Roman Catholicism has long “adapted to local circumstances” (to repeat the phrase used in this video). It incorporates the religious beliefs of various groups regardless of whether those beliefs are compatible with traditional Catholic teachings. What we see in the video is not a Mexican thing; it’s a Catholic thing.

    By the way, this piece uses the terms “Christian” and “Catholic” interchangeably. That’s a common—and to some people very useful—distortion.

    • William Krapek

      Well since the Catholics and the Orthodox are a lot more like each other than Protestants, it’s the latter who have the weakest case for being considered Christian at all.

      They were the first Christians after all.

      Ditto for the Copts. And the Syrians. And the Assyrians.

      • Katherine McChesney

        Prove to us that Catholicism was first. I don’t believe you can. Furthermore, I believe this is another lie of Satan.

        • David Ashton

          You don’t need to prove to any educated person that Luther and Calvin came after a line of Popes that stretch back many centuries to ancient Rome.

          • [Guest]

            True. It’s also true that an educated person is unlikely to believe that Christianity began with a line of popes.

          • David Ashton

            You could say it “began” with the commission at the end of Matthew’s Gospel, if authentic, which implies divine guidance and protection of an identifiable teaching and baptising organisation spreading in space and continuing in time, i.e. a Catholic Church.

            However, things went terribly wrong, which is one reason why I personally decided years ago not to become an RC and have since been sceptical about Christianity altogether. But I am defensive of this religion of the west in so far as it has reinforced family values and inspired great works of art and music, and seek practical co-operation among all those who wish to protect our cultural heritage and way of life from alien faiths, an aggressive neo-marxism and a moral corrosion.

          • [Guest]

            I agree with the defensive posture and have said before on this forum that to wish to rid the Western nations of both multiculturalism and Christianity makes no sense.

            My comment about the interchangeable use of “Catholic” and “Christian” meant only that the video’s narrator makes observations about certain things that are distinctly Roman Catholic and then calls them “Christian.” No, Christianity does not use images of a brown Mary as a “secret weapon” to gain popularity. Roman Catholicism, however, does.

            The racial equivalent would be to cite the U.S. rate of gun murders and speak of Americans’ blood lust, when the murderers are overwhelmingly young urban blacks.

            Our opposition wields the broad brush with a purpose.

      • David Ashton

        The Aramaic-speakers are being persecuted by Muslims.

      • IstvanIN

        Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant or Coptic, does the brand matter as long as the final goal is salvation in Christ?

      • [Guest]

        I’m unsure how your point relates to mine. Are you objecting to my statement that to use the terms “Christian” and “Catholic” interchangeably is a distortion?

        The video shows the mixture of Roman Catholicism and “the old Mayan religion,” and to illustrate the point it shows a ritual conducted by a Catholic priest who is also a Mayan shaman. The same point is made more explicitly when it’s stated that the Mariolatry of Roman Catholicism is wildly popular among the brown people and it’s said that Mary is a “secret weapon” of Christianity.

        Throughout, the examples are of Roman Catholicism, but the narrator uses the terms “Christian” and “Christianity” interchangeably with the term “Roman Catholic.” That IS a distortion.

        That Pope Gregory wrote “Don’t destroy their religious traditions; simply adapt them to Christianity” does not mean that Christianity dictates any such practice.

      • Sick of it

        Well, since many of us today believe in the Bible as opposed to worldly rituals, traditions, and papal determinations, that sounds utterly ridiculous. The first Christians were hunted down by the Romans…then the Roman Catholics.

    • Bossman

      Really?? How so? For more than a thousand years, all Christians were Roman Catholics.

  • borogirl54

    I guess it is the Mexican version of voodoo.

  • Funruffian

    They have a lot of nerve to have a Black guy with an English accent to do a documentary about how Mexicans combine indigenous substance with White forms. Give me a break. The Haitians have made a far more bizarre blend of Voodoo and Christianity with White forms and black substance.
    Is a Black guy with an English accent supposed to add a layer of prestige and erudition?

    • IstvanIN

      Yes, the English accent makes Americans think the blackie is erudite.

      • [Guest]

        I’d say that we’re supposed to believe him because of his blackness, his accent, and the religious symbol on the jewelry hanging around his neck.

    • Bossman

      A few weeks ago, PBS ran a documentary about Mohammed and it was a black guy with an English accent doing the explaining.

  • je suis paganisme

    Well, did not the same thing happen to European Christianity?
    “The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity” by James Russell posits that since Chrisitianity did not appeal to the Germanics, it was altered, changed, to appeal to them.
    Jesus and his followers were portrayed as a warrior band, dueling to the death with the forces of evil. Swords were drawn, warrior virtues were emphasized. Christianity was reframed to be promoting family, kin, and nation (worth fighting for, even unto the death) which echoed the values that the European Germanics already possessed.
    This is not speculation. There exist gospels written by monks which prove that this is so.

    • David Ashton

      It would certainly be interesting to have Walter Grundmann’s “Jesus the Galilean” in English translation.

  • Sentinel9

    Everything white people like about Christianity comes from white people.

  • De Doc

    The video seems to nail it on the head. There is not a single religion on Earth that does not have elements of syncretism (borrowings from other religions). It exists in European Christianity just as it does among Mexicans, Africans, etc.

  • [Guest]

    This topic reminds me of the case of Anne Holmes Redding, the Seattle woman who professes to be both a Christian and a Muhammadan.

    In her words: “I am both Muslim and Christian, just like I’m both an American of African descent and a woman. I’m 100 percent both.”

    On days when she wasn’t serving as an Episcopal priest, she attended a mosque.

    • dd121

      Does that mean that if she martyrs she get 72 virgins in hell?

    • David Ashton

      She missed the bit in the Koran about not taking Christians as friends.

    • Bossman

      She can have many religions because they are all mythological beliefs.

      • David Ashton

        But not identical, or even similar.

    • Erasmus

      And of course she’s a black woman, so that makes her colorfully diverse, instead of just outright stupid.

  • JohnEngelman

    Actually, it is lack of hatred. I do not see why I should sneer at other religious traditions as long as they to not promote terrorism and intolerance.

    • stewball

      Right on Mr. Engelman

  • David Ashton

    The problem about this is that the first church preceded the New Testament documents and their completion. The papal church was responsible for the canon of “scriptures” itself. The “Bible” is not a single self-contained textbook and nowhere describes “itself” as the primary or sole “rule of faith”. However, it is true that contradictions between the New Testament and the preaching of any particular church would disqualify the latter. I came to the conclusion that they are all mistaken by this test, from Calvinism to Mormonism, but I keep an open mind, if there really is a Holy Spirit “out there” who cares!

    • [Guest]

      Whether knowingly or not, you seem to be assuming the Roman Catholic position against Sola Scriptura. Is there even such a thing as “the first church” in Christianity? If so, what’s its significance? Where does that idea come from, anyway, especially considering that the “church in the wilderness” predates Christianity?

      • David Ashton

        There are references to the “church” in Matthew and Paul’s letters.

    • anglocelt

      See my comment to Jane. No church is perfect or needs to be perfect. But the Bible does claim to be authoritative (2 Timothy 3:15-17).

      • David Ashton

        The verses from 2 Timothy now appear in the Bible but do not refer to it because it did not exist at the time. The passage refers to scriptures that Timothy would have known as a boy and of course you would still have to prove that God wrote even them.

  • David Ashton

    “Thou shalt have any old gods but Me, or preferably none at all.”

  • Bossman

    The story about a god being sacrificed is a pagan idea. The Greek god Dionysus was a dying god who got resurrected again. Same goes for the Egyptian god Osiris.

  • jeffaral

    Christianity is very tolerant: even if you are a cannibal living in Central Africa Christ wont reject you. It’s kind of anything goes religion.

  • Bossman

    One of the titles of the virgin of Gaudalope is protector of America. The America that stretches from Alaska to Argentina. She is really an American goddess in disguise. Christianity is about a god who got sacrificed on a cross to redeem humanity. That was already at the core of the religions of pre-Colombian America. They sacrificed humans so that those humans would become gods themselves who would then redeem the tribe.

  • jeffaral

    It’s impossible to find a more globalist, race-mixing and anti-White religion as Catholicism. At least 95% of practising Catholics are non-Whites.

  • Sick of it

    The message isn’t the same, when pagan rites are thrown in. Especially when invoking a pagan deity.

    • Bossman

      All deities are the same. They are all mythological beings who never existed. They exist only in the imaginations of the believers.

      • Sick of it

        So you’re on the wrong side in life and you’ll suffer for all eternity after you die. Must suck being a liberal.

      • David Ashton

        Deities exist in imagination but they are not identical. The dream you had last night was not the same as mine. King Lear is not Fagin is not Just William is not the Wife of Bath is not Grendel’s mother.

    • [Guest]

      I agree. Also, to say that Roman Catholics in large numbers have done this is not the same as saying that Christianity has done it. A similar tactic would be to say that a Roman Catholic priest molested a boy and then use that fact as grounds for speaking against Roman Catholicism, Christianity in general, and all religion and religious people. When an atheist molests a boy, however, the molester’s irreligion is of no significance.

      • Sick of it

        I’m not Catholic, but if I were Pope, I would have had those people executed (not just today but also centuries ago) for preying upon boys while wearing the cloth. If one operates a top-down organization that makes it their responsibility to do something about such problems. So really, it’s the Popes more than Catholics themselves. Not that I’d consider such a thing a revelation nor would Martin Luther (who screwed up plenty himself btw).

        • [Guest]

          Yeah, I agree. If you were Catholic, though, you’d oppose the death penalty even if someone kidnapped, held hostage, raped, tortured, murdered, and then ate the child.

          • Sick of it

            Modern socialists pretending to be Catholics. Old school Catholics had no problem with punishing the evildoer. That much we can certainly agree on.

          • [Guest]

            Yeah, I was halfway jesting based on the fact that the Roman Catholic church is officially opposed to the death penalty.

          • David Ashton

            So is the secularist “European Union”.

          • David Ashton

            Apologies: my reply to you was accidentally misplaced.

        • David Ashton

          Historically Catholics and Protestants alike have supported the death penalty, often for lesser crimes, and it is modern “liberal” who wants to keep these vile people alive at the expense of the law-abiding.

          • Sick of it

            We’ve suffered too much at the hands of the criminal. Justice needs to be served again or we simply won’t have civilization anymore.

  • [Guest]

    Pastor Thorkild Grosbøll (now retired) is a “Christian” of the same ilk.

  • Jkjljmt_Pqprpstt

    Look up “Santa Muerte”, this documentary didn’t cover it – though it’s perhaps the most degenerate example for Mexican “Catholics”.

  • anglocelt

    God gave us the Bible (2 Timothy 3:15-17). God used the early church to canonize the Bible, but was completely sovereign over the entire process. Whether a church is the “true church” or not is determined by comparing its teachings and practices to that of the New Testament church, as recorded in Scripture.

    • David Ashton

      Perhaps it is impertinent for a non-believer to intervene in a Protestant-RC dispute, but I gave some attention to this over many years before dissatisfaction with Christianity altogether. The passage quoted here from a letter attributed to Paul refers clearly to some Hebrew scriptures, which long preceded the documents selected as the New Testament, not to what the now call “the Bible”.

      • [Guest]

        And in a letter attributed to John—the one not coincidently called “John”—Jesus is quoted as saying “Search the scriptures … which testify of me.”

        Those scriptures predated Christianity, just as “the church in the wilderness,” which I mentioned in an earlier post, predated Christianity.

        I think you can see a parallel between this and your comments about the letter “attributed to Paul” (the one that begins with the writer identifying himself as Paul).

        • David Ashton

          With respect, I do not think this AmRen thread would be a good place/space to discuss the personal authorship of NT documents, from John to 2 Peter, and would refer readers to extensive discussions among Christian scholars themselves.

          John 5:39 is not an instruction to eventual readers of the yet unwritten published gospels, but a criticism (in the indicative not imperative mood) of contemporary Jewish listeners to the effect that they are always going through their ancient prophecies, while overlooking the evidence therein of a future messiah, which Jesus now identifies as himself.

          • [Guest]

            Concerning point one: I agree that “letter attributed to Paul” comments probably belong elsewhere.

            Concerning point two: The topic is not interpretation; it’s a continuation of the “line of popes”/”church in the wilderness” issue.

      • anglocelt

        No, the passage is saying that “all Scripture is God-breathed.” It’s interesting that you as a non-believer would intervene on behalf of a commenter who doesn’t believe that Protestants can be true Christians. I, on the other hand, believe that Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox can all be true Christians.

        • David Ashton

          All these people should be regarded as “Christians”. Personally I no longer accept that this religion, in any ecclesiastical denomination, is credible, but I still think most RC arguments against “Sola Scriptura” are logical. I decided against becoming a Catholic for other reasons and have no wish to bore anyone with them. I do advocate here that Christians and non-Christians should unite to protect our western civilization against obvious external and internal enemies.

  • steve1red

    Remember the one-drop rule. You’re not white if you have native american blood in you. There’s way too many people with native american blood who try to pass themselves off as white.
    Of course, they’re easy to spot because they can’t handle alcohol like their native ancestors and they don’t act like cultured Europeans at all.

  • JohnEngelman

    As long as religious syncretism does not foster cruelty and intolerance I do not see what the problem is.

    • David Ashton

      Is there a problem with atheist bishops in the Episcopalian Church? The previous local Church of England vicar in our North Norfolk parish is a self-declared “non-theist” who thought it would be a “good idea” to bring all the poor, sick and refugee millions from the multifaith third world into England.

  • JohnEngelman

    Those who accuse me of hating whites project their racial hatred onto me.

    • stewball

      I presume you are of german descent?

      • JohnEngelman

        German and Germanic. My ancestors are also English, and German speaking Swiss.

  • David Ashton

    The Arab Palestinian minority suffers from a certain degree of discrimination and immigrant citiizenship is normally accorded only to those of Jewish maternity. You will not find many Africans, Chinese or Indians in Israel, and you would probably not wish to join the occupants of the West Bank. The last sentence quoted is semantically disingenuous.

    • stewball

      We have plenty of Africans hers. Jewish Asians. Black Hebrews who follow Judaism. Ethiopians eho are Jewish who
      trecked for months and miles losing family members on the way to Adis Ababa to be airlifted to Israel with help from the Sudan. Their love for Israel was so strong they risked everything to come home. So you see we have black Israel is

      • David Ashton

        Ethiopian Jews are kept at some social distance from the rest of the population, and illegal African immigrants have not been converted and circumcised but deported to Uganda.

        Incidentally, I was at university with a wealthy dark-skinned Indian Jew. As we were crossing Magdalen Bridge in Oxford, two Indian car workers shuffled towards us in shabby clothing, Abrams suddenly said to me: “You people [white Christians] feel sorry for people like that – we don’t.” Years later he invited me from India – I forget whether it was Delhi or “Mumbai” – to attend his expensive Jewish marriage, which would have been fun if I could have afforded the airfare and the expected wedding present.

        • stewball

          It’s very unfortunate that the a lot of the Ethiopians have been sent out of the centres to live but that doesn’t mean All Ethiopians live south. They live all over Israel. They may start wherever they’re sent when they first came/comes but that doesn’t mean they stay there.
          Very few Africans have been deported. Uganda is not taking any and if you are so informed about us then you should know that the high court has stopped them being sent anywhere. Do you feel sorry for the white homeless or beggars? Bet you don’t. Why are you so hung up with rich Jews. Yes plenty of India Jews are wealthy but more hindus are wealthier. The ones that come here are normal and have to work hard as is the Indian custom. I worked with Indian girls – which was great for me when I was pregnant. My cravings were for Indian food and their mummies didn’t disappoint me. One girl, of course we’re women now – came from Ashdod to Tel Aviv and back everyday. Look at the map to see the distance. Are you of the opinion that All Jews are wealthy? I wish. Then I wouldn’t have had to start work as soon as I left school and worry about money here. My children missed out of quite a lot as we couldn’t afford to give them things. At least they ate well, were clean and had nice clothes not like a lot of kids here who live below the poverty line. What? Poor Jews? How can that be!!!

          • stewball

            Have you ever seen Ethiopian women? They are beautiful. Such delicate features. Wish I looked like that.

          • JohnEngelman

            I like ethnic stuff, but the only ethnic anything I like from sub Saharan Africa are Ethiopian restaurants. Yes, the Ethiopian waitresses are beautiful.

            The only two Negro nations that had urban civilizations at the time of Jesus were the Nubians and the Ethiopians. The Nubians were directly south of Egypt. They learned civilization from the Egyptians. They also learned iron technology, and passed it to the Bantu about two and a thousand years ago.

            The Ethiopians learned civilization from Nubia and from the Arabs across the Red Sea. They are partially Arabic. That is why they look more Caucasian than other Negroes.

            Human evolution began in and around Ethiopia. That is where the oldest pre human fossils have been found.

          • stewball

            Why are you mentioning Ethiopian waitresses! I said women.

          • David Ashton

            Some Sephardic women can be similarly beautiful. Stereotype or not, the Ashkenazic nose is not an great asset to the ladies, which is why the fashion models in the Jewish papers tend to be Rowenas rather than Rebeccas. I am against race-crossing.

          • David Ashton

            The Uganda story was in the “Jewish Chronicle” recently.

            I do not mind anyone becoming wealthy by honest toil or using their money for decent objectives, including charity.

            I am sorry for some homeless people, but it depends on why they are homeless. I do not ilke hardworking families being taxed to support lazy spongers, especially if they are feckless breeders of like kind.

          • stewball

            Then you’re no better than the Indian chappy really are you. Why do you read the J.C.?

          • David Ashton

            I am beginning to resent your impertinent “moral” judgements.

            I first took TJC years ago when researching Soviet concentration camps, which reported on the so-called “prisoners of Zion”, and have benefited from its informative contents ever since. I also take weekly the New Statesman, The Spectator and The Economist, among very many other periodicals British and foreign. So what?

          • stewball

            I have apologized.

          • David Ashton

            Thank you.

    • stewball

      Have you read what abbas says? There will be no Jews on their lol land. Do you know how many Palestines work in Israel? Of course not. Did you know that the Druse in Israel are very loyal – much more so than those ‘religious citizens’ are. The Druse do their army service with pride. Many of them go to officer courses. Generationsgo the army. They fought in the war of independence and every war after. To be honest I wish all those supposed religious lot would go to be with their own kind in new york. We’d be a better country for that.
      But I have gone off the
      subject. Why should we give citizenship to those that want to kill us?

      • David Ashton

        I agree with your last sentence.
        Yes, I already know about the Druse.

  • David Ashton

    So you believe in doctrinal standards then?

  • stewball

    Oh for goodness sake. Eating the body drinking the blood. How backward are all you RC’s?

  • stewball

    Oh goodness!
    SCREAM! Where’s paganism in God sic showing Adam, the supposed first person’
    to sacrifice or whatever. I suppose all the Jews your holy men tortured and burnt alive because they wouldn’t take a false religion. Weren’t they sacrifices the Jews made to God to keepthe ooriginal religion that yours stems from

  • stewball

    Only the Christians don’t know that ‘Christmas’ was a pagan holiday.

  • stewball

    See. The Catholics tortured and murdered anybody who has a different religion. Some holy men indeed. Luck Judaism doesn’t really want converts.

  • David Ashton

    John Piper says the same about the scriptures of Timothy’s boyhood in Paul’s writings. He then quotes 2 Peter to claim that Paul’s writings in turn are also divinely inspired. This is still a question-begging argument, that also excludes other the writings collected by the RC authorities as the NT.

    Traditionally both Catholics and Protestants have regarded both the NT and OT documents as all divinely inspired. The difference is that Catholics believe the teaching church both preceded and followed the composition and selection of the NT writings and that these are not a complete and self-sufficient source of faith, and that their interpretation is primarily the responsibilty of the church, not private individuals (who can twist their meaning).

    That seems a reasonable position to me. However, the traditional view of the actual credibility of biblical documents has been eroded not only by non-Christian but by Protestant and even Catholic scholars themselves in recent decades.

    I do not mind continuing to debate these matters, but others may find it tedious on this website.

  • stewball

    They didn’t mention the Bahais. Their main temple is in Haifa and their gardens and flowers are on the tourism map. It’s beautiful.
    Don’t forget that David barenboim had Palestinan citizenship. Disgusting little man and not justfor tthat.

  • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

    Oh Brother, back up, readers – Christianity has always been doing this, it is how it was created; A Hellenized Jew named Saul got a big idea and first changed his name to Paul and then changed from persecuting Jews and sects like the one Jesus form a new religion by stealing from the Jesus sect and combining it with polytheism (trinity) and make it flexible enough to include everyone. Paul wrote that he stole this religion and that he lied “to bring the truth,” something Christians have excelled at since then.

    In Greece, all the old gods of the pantheon were banished, but their liturgy was co-opted into the new form. In Rome, both Mithraism and the Sol Invictis religions were used to give the new religion its form. Then the monastic system came over from Egypt and the cult of Osiris and Isis gave Christianity its organization (as well as the resurrection). And if you ever traveled in Europe, outside of the great cities, you’ll find that by the middle ages every town and rural locale had their own local Saints, just as they had kept their own local gods. Sacred well of the Druids became holy wells and sites of Christian healing and miracles. And it goes on and on…… the Mexicans aren’t doing anything new.

    • David Ashton

      Some of this is historically correct, but not all. For example, Paul did not write that “he stole” a religion. The development of the Christian organization is found in the New Testament and very early Christian writings, and was not adapted and did not need to be adapted from the “cult of Osiris and Isis”. Your case is overstated.

      • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

        The moderator will not allow my long and laboriously prepared and scholarly reply. So I will quickly tell you that you are mistaken. Read up on the Cult of Osiris, the first example of death and rebirth in the exact style as Jesus is claimed. The Persian Sun God Mithra, born December 25th, Europe seasonal celebrations “borrowed” by Christianity. As for Paul;

        “For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory,
        why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?” – St. Paul, – Romans 3.7.

        “There is nothing so easy as by sheer volubility to deceive a common crowd or an uneducated congregation.” – St. Jerome (Epistle to Nepotian,
        Lii, 8.)

        • David Ashton

          Your efforts are appreciated, but I did say some assertions are correct, and these include the synchronisation, long after the apostolic church, with pagan festivals, and the sanctification of holy sites (noticeable in Cornwall).

          I have been interested in Christ Myth theories from youth, and studied them intermittently over the years. The “death and rebirth” of Osiris was hardly in the “exact style” of Jesus: Set threw the coffin in the river and suffocated Osiris and later threw his dismembered remains around. In one story Isis collected the bits for burial, and in another version she gathered them with the aid of Ra and Anubis, bound them together, and revived the corpse. Osiris became lord of the dead in the underworld. However, I believe the resurrection story in the gospel of John reflects some pagan conceptions. All this stuff is fascinating, but AmRen is sadly not quite the place for discussion.

          Your quotation of Paul is taken out of a complex context in which this former rabbinical candidate debates in synagogal fashion with an imaginary objector the notion that God is responsible for the sins of men, and takes it to absurdity by hypothetical examples.

          • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

            I have been studying Christianity as well, but for decades. The evidence of not just the example of Osiris, (of which doesn’t have to be exactly a death on a Roman cross to be similar enough) but of numerous pre-existing death and resurrection stories all from the basic idea that the sun dies at the winter solstice and is reborn and struggles through the dark and cold of winter until its “resurrection” in the spring at the vernal equinox is well accepted and understood. Even the Christian “halo” is a remnant of the image of the blazing sun behind Apollo. The Greek Icons reveal this adaption clearer than the later Latin modification.

            As for the quote from Romans, I simply disagree. The context really doesn’t matter. Arguing context is a common device for denial of the plain. Paul says he lied to add glory to Christ and thinks that this kind of lying is just fine. My longer post had a long list of similar, but hugely enlarged (by them) examples of the accepted use lies and deceptions by the well known early Church “Fathers” in order to grow the Church and its “story” for the benefit of themselves and the Church – in their own words.

            But you are right about this forum and it’s limitations. I am sure that we would have a great deal to agree upon and intersect. You seem to be as I hopefully am, always opened to learning something new. When I began my Christian research, it was because I was willing to go wherever it led. If it had led me to a reasonable validation of Christianity, I would be one today. What I did learn and have gone on finding, is that it is the most phony, ridiculous and extremely harmful (to whites) than any other religion so far. Islam is only worse in that it comes right out and says that it means to subjugate the world and basically enslave it. The difference is that it hasn’t yet while Christianity did. Most of our historical strife as whites are based in Christian conflict and its acts in establishing, enlarging and preserving itself, irregardless of the human lives and real cultures it destroyed.

  • stewball

    @David Ashton. I do not mean to be impertinent or moral. If that’s how I came across I apologize.
    At what age are you considered not impertinent?

  • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

    The Pope (any of them) and the Church is for whatever they see is the best way for them to continue in power. When they were a generative force in world conquest, world domination was in favor. And this period represents most of modern history. The Church of Rome is the “Great $hore” that is referred to in Revelations and was commonly called such in its own time. Little has changed.

  • Formerly_Known_as_Whiteplight

    A Gift of faith to be accepted by the naive, simple and gullible. (But historically also prodded and pushed by fire, dungeon and sword).