Online Classes May Worsen Educational Achievement Gap, Study Shows

Katherine Long, Seattle Times, March 16, 2013

It’s one of the most hyped ideas in higher education today—the hope that college courses taught online can drive down the cost of a degree, and make it easier for working students to complete their college education.

But a new study comparing the success rates of online and traditional, face-to-face courses taught at Washington’s community colleges shows more students drop out, and fewer get a passing grade, when they take a class online than when they take it in a classroom.

And the students who fare the worst are those who are already struggling in college, raising the possibility that a push to more online classes could exacerbate the higher-education achievement gap.

The study was done by the Community College Research Center at Teachers College, Columbia University, at the request of Washington’s community colleges.

The data included results from 500,000 courses taken by 40,000 students over four years — tapping into “a strong and robust data system” the state keeps on success rates in community colleges, said Shanna Smith Jaggars, assistant director of the research center.

{snip}

It found that males, black students and students with lower levels of academic preparation were the ones most likely to fail to finish a class, or get a lower grade. Those groups already have lower performance levels in college, and the gaps worsened in online courses.

“If this pattern holds true across other states and educational sectors, it would imply that the continued expansion of online learning could strengthen, rather than ameliorate, educational inequity,” the study says.

{snip}

On average, about 85 percent of students who start a Washington community college course complete it successfully, said Connie Broughton, director of eLearning and Open Education for the Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges.

Online courses have completion rates that are 6 to 10 percentage points lower, she said.

{snip}

“We’re working very hard at it,” she [Broughton] said, adding, “We really don’t know how to close that gap. We don’t know what the right answer is.”

Topics: ,

Share This

We welcome comments that add information or perspective, and we encourage polite debate. If you log in with a social media account, your comment should appear immediately. If you prefer to remain anonymous, you may comment as a guest, using a name and an e-mail address of convenience. Your comment will be moderated.
  • acorn0101

    ‘”It found that males, black students and students with lower levels of academic preparation were the ones most likely to fail to finish a class, or get a lower grade. Those groups already have lower performance levels in college, and the gaps worsened in online courses.””

    Because in a live class, the professor gives extra points to blacks. When the professor grades without consideration of race (online), the blacks get graded like everyone else, and thus score lower. The blacks don’t get the special help online and so they score lower.

    Basically, morons do badly in both environments, while smart people do well in both environments.

    • If I recall, one school started grading essays without reading the names……that probably didnt last long.

    • Tom Iron

      Well, haven’t you hit on the answer? Make a rule that the race of each student must be made known to the instructor and that takes care of that problem.

      • sbuffalonative

        We’re back to the ‘damned if you do and damned if you don’t’ issue.
        If you say the race of the student must be know to the teacher and blacks fail in higher numbers, blacks will complain that teachers are racists. If you remove the requirement that race be known and blacks fail in higher numbers, blacks will complain that race (and the hardships being black entails) should be a known factor so the teacher can take it into account.
        You can’t win.

      • sbuffalonative

        We’re back to the ‘damned if you do and damned if you don’t’ issue.
        If you say the race of the student must be know to the teacher and blacks fail in higher numbers, blacks will complain that teachers are racists. If you remove the requirement that race be known and blacks fail in higher numbers, blacks will complain that race (and the hardships being black entails) should be a known factor so the teacher can take it into account.
        You can’t win.

    • The__Bobster

      No, black morons do better in one environment that they should’ve.

    • Felix_M

      $20 says that with the spread of on-line classes, there’ll eventually be a demand to indicate the racial background of participating students. O’ course, Patrick O’Flaherty can also claim he’s African-American bumping his grade up a notch or two.

    • ken

      Computers be raciss ‘n sheet.

  • a multiracial individual

    Educational success everywhere in America:

    Jews>Asians>Whites>Hispanics>Blacks

    Socioeconomic explanations are ALWAYS insufficient in explaining these gaps. If anyone can ever figure out how to close these gaps, the left will makes that person immortal (and very rich). It might be a while.

    • pcmustgo

      I feel Black culture does play a role. The “Black Middle Class” is an artificial middle class created through affirmative action. Therefore, Blacks have very few genuinally middle class people with genuine middle/upper-middle class intellectual behaviors. Latinos I’ve heard are pushed harder by their parents. I’ve heard this from white inner city school teachers, believe it or not. Jews almost always come from nerdy, upper middle class backgrounds.

      There’s very few working class Jews in America or Europe.

      • brengunn

        London has a fair few working class Jews, certainly more than America.

    • IstvanIN

      Jews are over-rated. As for Asians, we probably get the most determined. I would love to see Hispanics rated based on their actual race. Whites are still at the top, compare the societies we built to the societies Asians have built. Blacks are, well, blacks.

      • a multiracial individual

        [This fact has social significance because IQ (as measured by IQ tests) is the best predictor we have of success in academic subjects and most jobs. Ashkenazi Jews are just as successful as their tested IQ would predict, and they are hugely over-represented in occupations and fields with the highest cognitive demands. During the 20th century, they made up about 3% of the US population but won 27% of the US Nobel science prizes and 25% of the ACM Turing awards. They account for more than half of world chess champions.]

        http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf

        0.4% of White Gentiles have an IQ over 140, While 2.3% of Ashkenazi Jews have an IQ over 140. I am not saying you are wrong, I am asking for you to unpack further what you mean by “overrated.” Do you have anything tangible/measurable?

        With regard to Asians, the first 9 nations on the 2013 HDI rankings are White nations, I will give you that. However, Japan (10) and South Korea (12) are nothing to laugh at. However, I do find it strange that no one criticizes Mr. Taylor for discussing the cognitive ability of Asians.

        “Most people with any sense know that Whites on average, are smarter than Blacks. But most people with any sense, including me, also think that East Asians on average are smarter than whites.”

        – Jared Tayor, “Why They Call us Names”, 6:10-6:30

        • IstvanIN

          Compared to the great civilizations of Europe, Japan, and especially South Korea, are Johnny Come Latelies.

          As for the Jews, we would have done quite nicely without their contributions. And how much of their work is in the social sciences and psychology as opposed to the real sciences?

          • Bad_Mr_Frosty

            Germany experienced a sort of physics renaissance after they expelled the Jews. Almost all the rocket technology that lead to the moon landing was taken from them.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Almost all of the atom bomb work was Jewish. Only Enrico Fermi was Christian – an Italian Catholic, though with a Jewish wife.

            Germany also quickly lost an early lead in radar, and the English at Bletchley Park were outstanding at breaking codes. The gas turbine engine that powered the late war German jets was invented in Britain by Sir Frank Whittle.

          • a multiracial individual

            Jews are disproportionately represented in all cognitively demanding fields.

            It is true that Japan and South Korea were the beneficiaries of Western exposure. Of course, it’s not how one starts the race, and historical power shifts can be cyclical. I have been looking into the work of Niall Ferguson, and he has made a strong argument that the Great Divergence is over.

          • Guest

            You are wrong. Jews are disproportionately represented in fields where they can influence culture. There are plenty of cognitively demanding fields with very few Jews. Any kind of engineering. Computer science. Chemistry. Jews are particularly dominant in soft fields having the word “studies” in their name.

          • convairXF92

            The deeper areas of computer science are very heavily Jewish.

          • BonusGift

            Ferguson is a powers that be court historian, what he says or writes is meant to please the powers that be not forecast the world of tomorrow.

          • MBlanc46

            Try physics. And mathematics.

        • Bad_Mr_Frosty

          His point is that IQ isn’t everything. It’s important, but there are other factors. Asians never built first world societies on their own, they only copied what the West has done. Israel should be a futuristic paradise given its concentration of high IQ individuals, but that’s not really the case. There are other elements, like creativity, that make White Christians “special”.

          • a multiracial individual

            Israel has to devote significant resources for defense. That may be a hinderance in their development.

            While I do not agree with Jared Diamond’s thesis that all history was a matter of resource luck, there is a kernel of truth to the limitations of circumstance. In the aftermath of the Black Death, Europe would have been helpless against an imperial Chinese invasion. Why didn’t this happen? The Chinese were not interested in traveling that far. I have also been probing the work of (conservative scholar) Niall Ferguson lately, he presented a very good argument to believe that the great divergence is over (at least with East Asians).

          • BonusGift

            The Chinese were successfully overrun by the Mongols several times. They can’t hold their own against inferior numbers. They have always had a numerical edge over their neighbors and Europe, what makes you think they would try to mess with whitey when they couldn’t overwhelm their enemies close to home? You are insane, and seem to hop from hope to hope. Hope is not a strategy.

          • BonusGift

            The average IQ in Israel is about 94. First, we must not forget that the average IQ is not as important as the spread of the distribution (and, as stated earlier, IQ itself it isn’t the end all to be all). Second, Israel has Sephardic Jews whose IQ is well below that of their Azkenazi co-religionists whose IQ is below the average Azkenazi living in the US. The “devil is in the details” for IQ and just about everything else. All that can be generally stated is that blacks universally cause hell on earth wherever they are; and Asians seem to be lost without whitey or they wouldn’t feel the need to follow whitey around and make comments and forecasts that just aren’t true.

        • BonusGift

          You just contradicted your early statement; and by bringing up Nobel science prizes you also contradict your earlier statement. Also, for example, even though there are more Chinese than all white people (both Christian and Jew) on the planet why don’t they have virtually all the Nobel prizes (in fact, their share is pathetic in tne exterme, but can be at least in part explained by the fact that their IQ distribution is so narrow relative to Europeans, thus they have a relatively high mean but very few very bright people relative to even the lowly ‘whites’ and these ‘gentiles’ you so denigrate).

          • a multiracial individual

            I have no problem with admitting the possibility that Asians might have a more narrow IQ distribution. Less morons, but less geniuses as well. It is certainly possible. The topic should be explored further. Whatever the results, I do not fear the truth.

      • anarchyst

        You are correct. It is the social and cultural cohesiveness and insularity that makes jews so “successful”. It is easy to achieve “success” when you have your blood “equals” “greasing the skids” for you. The culture of corruption, cheating and the “ends justifying the means” are all jewish “traits” that are looked upon proudly. Imagine if whites (were permitted to) exercise the same cultural and social cohesiveness and insularity (without the cheating and other dirty-handed tactics that jews use). We would be colonizing other planets by now. . . It’s a damned shame that the things that make jews so successful are denied to us whites. We have allowed the “enemy” tio define the terms–“multiculturalism and diversity for thee, but not for me”.

    • APaige

      Not true. On the MCAT(2011) Asians scored 29.2 and whites 29.0, science GPA was whites 3.50, while Asains had 3.44. Over all GPA whites 3.58. Asians 3.53.

      On the LSAT whites score 152.86 and Asians 152.38.
      Whites outscored Asians on 3 out of 4 educational markers

      • a multiracial individual

        You know that there is MUCH more data than these 4 measures.

        • APaige

          Well yes, but you stated ‘educational success everywhere’ and I just pointed out three where your statement is incorrect.

          • a multiracial individual

            Forgive my clumsy statement.
            Asians outperform whites in ALMOST every academic category.

          • BonusGift

            No they don’t. Let’s try for some accuracy here instead of anti-white anti-Christian ethnic cheerleading. For example, do Filipinos “outperform whites in almost every academic category?” Actually Filipinos underperform ‘whites’ in every acadermic category. Aren’t Filipinos Asian? How about Indonesians? … Also, the mean of specific groups may be higher but the distribution is narrower (e.g., Asians vs. Europeans – Christians and Jews). What is most important is both the mean and width of the distribution. Therefore, at the highest levels even very specific groups do not perform as you so claim. Don’t be a fool and make a general statement when specific details matter. Also, mean scoring Sephardic Jews don’t outscore the mean score of specific ‘white’ groups or specific ‘Asian’ groups, while no doubt Azkenazi are at the top both by mean score and have a wide European type distribution.

          • a multiracial individual

            I don’t have any animous toward Whites. I was merely speaking about racial differences in education in this country. Actually you bring up an interesting issue. Sephardic Jews and South East Asians actually probably drag down the figures for North East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews because they are all lumped together. This tactic is often used deliberately (though much less often) against whites by lumping Hispanics in with Whites, which we all know, depresses White stats. What does this mean? It means that Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Ashkenazi Jewish students might actually have a larger gap between themselves and Whites than was previously thought. There is a price to pay for having a flatter distribution, you will have more special education classrooms as well as having more scientists.

          • APaige

            Your new statement is also clumsy. (INCORRECT)

            Whites outscore Asains on 2 of the 3 parts of the GRE. Whites score higher on the reading part of the SAT. The average score for whites on the ACT is higher. Here try this one: Asians outperform whites in SOME academic categories. Not ALWAYS, ALMOST,or MOST.

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Which categories are those? I worked extensively with orientals and subcontinental Indians, and they weren’t as creative or intuitive as me. This didn’t cause me any trouble with the Japanese; their methodical approach to our engineering problems was quite valuable. It drove the Indians crazy, however, and after the company started putting framed patent certificates in the lobby, they complained my name was on “too many” of them and demanded they be taken down.

            A quick look at India’s arms industry tells the whole story. India’s first domestic fighter jet, the Marut was designed for them by Kurt Tank, who had produced the excellent Focke-Wulf 190 during world war two. Their first domestically-produced main battle tank, the Vijayanta was designed for them in Britain by Vickers. The Godavari class frigates are enlarged British “Leander” hull designs (even using the same propulsion plant), and the Delhi class destroyers are stretched Russian “Kashin” hulls. Both are outfitted with Russian-designed weapons and sensors.

  • dfitzp

    I’ve taken many online classes, and they require self motivation and discipline. Blacks lack both. They take these classes because they don’t have to show up to class and they think it’s easy to cheat. These tests are usually timed, and if your going to look up every answer in the text book you will soon run out time.

    • Oil Can Harry

      Also, note that the study doesn’t claim that whites are hurt by online classes, only the sainted People Of Color.

      These dorks will probably lobby for an end to this promising new technology because La’Queesha and DeAndre’Tavius can’t read.

      • pcmustgo

        Actually, it said Males were hurt. So white males are also hurt by this. I’ve heard males now do worse in college than women.

        • brengunn

          It’s the same as in high school, the girls are always more conscientious than boys, they pay attention in class and hand in their course work. I imagine the same is true for online studies.

          Having said that, that says nothing of who is the more talented student, just the more diligent.

          • sbuffalonative

            Men are also vastly over represented as inventor and innovators in research and science.
            Book and school learning are important and women may be able to sit still and do their assignments on time. This may be a female skill set.
            But what makes males achievers in real life may be that they can’t sit still and accept things at face value. A female may sit quietly in class and just take notes. A male may sit in class and question the teacher as to “why”.
            Men may have a drive to question and buck the status quo hence making them innovators.

        • Nathanwartooth

          I don’t have data to back this up but I have always theorized that part of the reason why males do worse in college and there are generally less of them is because of children.

          Let’s say you are relatively young and have a kid. If the woman doesn’t like you and decides to take the kid, guess what? You are now working full time to pay child support or they will send you to jail.

          If you are the woman you can get all kinds of support from the state while collecting the child support from the man. If she wants to get a college degree things are going to be much easier. Especially since many colleges offer day care centers for the children.

          But these differences manifest before college as well so I’m sure this can’t be the end all be all of explanations But I think it’s causing at least a few percentage points difference between males and females in college.

        • robinbishop34

          I think the reason males do worse than women is that more men pursue the hard sciences while most women pursue the social sciences. Of course there is no doubt that the decades of artificial social conditioning that suggests white males should drink beer, watch other men play sports, and play video games has had an effect as well.

        • sbuffalonative

          I don’t know if males are doing worse but I do know that more women are now enrolled in college. Feminist harping has succeeded in forcing colleges to admit more women. The numbers are no out of balance and favor women.

        • sbuffalonative

          I don’t know if males are doing worse but I do know that more women are now enrolled in college. Feminist harping has succeeded in forcing colleges to admit more women. The numbers are no out of balance and favor women.

          • saxonsun

            A question: Why is it good to have more men in college than women and not vice versa?! And you mental deadbeats actually wonder why there’s such a pressing need for feminism to end this male-created nightmare.

          • sbuffalonative

            An answer: For the reasons I stated. Men, more than women, are the doers and creaters. Men are the ones who make stuff.

            Here’s a list of things women invented:

            http://www.uwplatt.edu/pyf/files/inventions_by_women.pdf

            If these were the things invented by women it follows that everything else was invented by a man.

            Women aren’t in college because they necessarily deserve to be. They’re there because women complained they weren’t represented and the political pressure drove colleges to accept more women. That means that qualifed men who could actually create things to make the world a better place to live for both men and women aren’t being admitted.

            This is little more than ‘cut off your nose to spite your face’. Yes, more women are now in college (YOU GO GIRL!) but what will they produce? Little more than papers on gender equality. Useless and pointless BS.

            Here’s an interesting article to read. Don’t be put off by the title. Read it to the end before passing judgment:

            Planet of the Bitches

            http://alternativeright.com/blog/2013/3/5/planet-of-the-bitches

          • Michael_C_Scott

            Women finish more PhDs in the US than men, and have done so for more than 15 years.

          • sbuffalonative

            That may be true but in what disciplines? Engineering? Computer Science? Social Sciences?

            Don’t get me wrong. I support women who seeks to improve their lot in life through education. No competent woman should be denied a slot in medial school or hard sciences. I’d rather have a female doctor who finished at the top of her class than a male doctor who finished at the bottom.

            Here’s a list of degress by gender. It’s clear that men and women are choosing different career paths and that’s fine; it still seems to break down largely by gender “stereotypes”.

            http://www.collegeatlas.org/top-degrees-by-gender.html

    • pcmustgo

      Blacks are almost all about hip hop culture, including “middle class blacks”. They’re just not very intellectual or into learning. I don’t think it’s all genetic.

      • Bill

        There is a very real genetic component. But coupled with the average IQ of a rabbit, lack of work ethic and responsibility aggravates what COULD be overcome to some extent, if they were willing to put out the work required to do so. They aren’t.

      • Nathanwartooth

        You have to know that culture originates from race. Since there are so many low IQ Blacks the few with higher IQ get ridiculed by the masses for wanting to do good in school.

        This is why you can’t have a successful Black city, state or nation. There are just too many low IQ Blacks holding down the few higher IQ Blacks. The higher IQ Blacks should be thanking whatever civilization they end up in because that is the only way they could ever thrive.

      • sbuffalonative

        I disagree. I think the same “hip hop” culture exists in every black nation and community, it’s just expressed slightly differently.
        Look at some black tribes in Africa when they circle, dance, and hop around an open fire.
        Compare that to whites in the past building community halls and engineering musical instruments and developing complicated musical scores with multiple harmonies and the development of refined dances.
        It’s more in the genes than in the culture. Each developed because of genes.

        • BonusGift

          Bingo. Culture ultimately comes from genes not falling off the back of a cultural Marxist turnip truck.

  • pcmustgo

    Maybe they need more STRUCTURE than others. I’ve read charter schools for blacks only work because the days/hours are longer and it’s full of discipline and teaching moral values too, really drilling it into their heads.

    • brengunn

      That probably wouldn’t be a bad thing for white students, either.

  • IstvanIN

    A lot of young people need both discipline and structure, I certainly did. Blacks have little in the way of self-imposed discipline, motivation to do well academically, and need strict structure well into middle age.

  • Unperson

    Must be that pesky ol’ “digital divide” between the races we keep hearing about.
    Actually, these results regarding black males shouldn’t be that surprising. Existing only in cyberspace, online colleges have no pubs, coffee shops, plazas, parks, etc, in which to hit on white co-eds — so what incentive is there for Quan’travius to bother showing up at all?

    • It’s not so much the pesky digital divide, it’s what people do while they’re online.

      Example:

      http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2013/03/18/7-students-arrested-after-school-fight-at-annapolis-high-school/

      When you spend your time online engaged in mindless Facebook banter that only winds up provoking fights when you meet face to face, instead of researching the history of Ancient Rome, for example, then that achievement gap will only grow.

      Some people should actually do less communicating.

      • Michael_C_Scott

        I spend most of my online time writing or cleaning up naval history, warship and ordnance articles on Wikipedia. If N’Deshawntavious spends his time looking at porn, that’s his business, but neither he nor anyone else benefits from it. The age of the internet and the inexpensive PC is wonderful, but how many African’ts use their connectivity to order books from Amazon? How many go online to hunt down recepies for their favorite restaurant dishes so they can cook those meals inexpensively at home?

  • Bill

    Well of course the disparity is magnified, for the same reason blacks fail in brick and mortar schools. It takes discipline, a regular work ethic, studying, and attending every class to achieve in school. Even more so in online classes. These are traits blacks just don’t have nor are willing to cultivate, which is why they fail. In everything. Wait for it. Next it will be that since blacks show an even greater failure rate in online classes, online classes should be forbidden for everybody. Kind of like California dropping science classes because so few blacks attended, and those who did failed.

    • brengunn

      Kind of like California dropping science classes because so few blacks attended, and those who did failed.

      Californian schools don’t teach science?

  • robin

    it will allow cheating and corruption at a new level, which yes, will worsen the dunghole we live in.

    like hilary says, “what difference does it make?”

  • bigone4u

    When I began college in 1965, universities were bursting at the baby boom seams. The result was that the university wanted us to flunk out in our freshman year. More than 50 percent did flunk out as freshman. These were good white kids, coming out of decent high schools, fairly smart, and motivated to study. But the profs did not mollycoodle anyone. Some were told, “Young man, (or young lady) you are just not college material.”
    *
    In the 90s especially, PC set in and no one could be told anything negative. The universities began to emphasize “retention,” a code word for passing everyone on with a degree. The data in the story–the 86 percent pass rate–tells me that social promotion is alive and well. This dovetails with a study I recently saw that claims that college students study an average of six hours a week. Back in the day, we were told that we had no chance to succeed unless we studied 30 hours a week, and most of us did.
    *
    The push to give degrees to nonwhites has dumbed down higher ed to a scandalous degree. Not everyone is college material, especially nonwhites, but the educational establishment gets fatter and fatter bringing in the dregs of society. Some of the students I was given to work with my last years were drug dealers, illiterates, and even Satanists. Many were there for free sex. Others for free money (student loan checks that they did not seem aware they would have to repay.)

    • John Fermi

      It just depends on the program that you go into. I went to a state engineering school ranked in the top 50, and the school was run completely apart from the larger university by a separate administration, who all had backgrounds in completely apolitical fields such as physics and engineering.

      Freshman had to take a placement test and the dean created your schedule for you.

      The courses were pretty much designed to flunk people out. The professors would shoot for tests that would yield an average score between 40 and 60 percent. They would then have complete control over how many people they wanted to fail by having the freedom to adjust the curve however they wish.

      I approached my calculus III teacher and asked her what kind of average I needed to shoot for to get an A. She said she had no idea and she’d decide at the end of class.

      Using this, they effectively failed a significant portion of freshman engineers and quickly cut down the numbers that moved on to be sophomores.

      Some people dropped out. For others, the dean of freshman would look at their grades each semester and decide if he wanted to put them on probation. If he put them on probation, he’d give them a certain mark they had to reach the next semester. If they didn’t reach it, he would simply mail them a letter telling them they are dismissed.

      • bigone4u

        Thanks for reminding me about grading on the curve. I was an econ major and in one class my grade on a test was a 30/100. It was the highest score!!! In the university I taught at the committment is to create a class of Hispanic engineers to serve the city and south Texas. So, even engineering, and in fact especially engineering, has been corrupted by this “retention” business.

        • John Fermi

          Yea, I took microeconomics, got a 70 on the final exam, and it was an “A.”

          But, the econ department was part of a completely different school within the university.

          I’m just pointing out that some programs actually use curves to give the professors the power to eliminate students from the program by failing as many as they need to, rather than giving everyone an A.

          Some professors had quotas on the amount of A’s they would give out, for example. For example, a professor would decide before the semester that he was only going to give out four A’s to a class of 30.

      • Michael_C_Scott

        When I was a chemistry undergrad, the major “weed-out” classes were all in the freshman year. At least this gave folks who couldn’t cut the mustard the opportunity to change their majors while there was still plenty of time. Not every major was set up that way, however. For computer science, the weed-class was David Huffman’s cybernetics course, late sophomore year. One of my friends ended up switching to political science and economics after that nightmare.

  • robinbishop34

    “But a new study comparing the success rates of online and traditional, face-to-face courses taught at Washington’s community colleges shows more students drop out, and fewer get a passing grade, when they take a class online than when they take it in a classroom.”

    As we speak, as well as in the past, I have taken online classes (at a community college) and to me they are much more convenient, but also much harder than classroom courses. I think a lot of students think it’s going to be a breeze by taking it at home but they warn you that there will much more reading and more papers to be written to make up for the lack of classroom involvement.

  • pablo

    Online courses are just fine. They are NOT the problem.
    The problem is with undisciplined students. Going to a classroom instills and requires discipline. Those without the discipline to do the online studies are the ones who give it a bad name.
    As well, there are many cheaters who think they can weasel their way to a degree by paying for online courses at a diploma mill.
    The internet is a wonderful tool for education for those that want it. But it can’t impose discipline on those who just don’t have it.

  • bubo

    Buddy of mine says our local P.D. is full of black “doctors” who got their Ph.D’s in Divinity from some online diploma mill. They have to pay these fools, who my buddy says can’t construct a paragraph, hundreds of dollars extra because of “educational incentives.”

    Sometimes you just gotta laugh.

    • Guest

      What is a P.D.?

      • bubo

        Police Dept.

  • LHathaway

    I’ve had two ‘affirmative action’ bosses in a row. To be honest, they weren’t official affirmative action hires, more likely, ‘lets give everyone (some of us) a chance’ hires. Neither of them were very good at spelling even very simple words. No one has perfect spelling, though.

  • JoePatriot12345

    Has anyone ever invented a test that was ‘biased’ in favor of blacks to the detriment of any other race??

    • BonusGift

      It has been tried, but I don’t know about success.

      • Michael_C_Scott

        Such a test would have to favor people who

        1. Possess poor reading and writing skills.
        2. Do not know the subject material covered by the test.
        3. Did not show up to class.
        4. Did not do the homework.
        5. Never opened the textbook.
        6. “Studied” for the test by smoking a blunt and drinking a 40-oz bottle of “Evil Eye” the previous evening.

        I suspect creating such a test would be effectively impossible.

        • BonusGift

          You could do it, it just wouldn’t make much sense. It would be like judging food by how bad it tastes and smells.

  • Felix_M

    On the bright side, since Tyreefus and Shaqwana interfere with the ability of other students to learn with their unruly behavior won’t be around, serious students will learn more.

  • Paleoconn

    Technology: strike 1. Discipline: strike 2. Anonymity (ie. no racial preferences or opportunity for NAM students to intimidate): strike 3. OK, that explains that.

  • Michael_C_Scott

    Bright and disciplined people will always do better on academic subjects, and in many other areas as well. Even in my welding classes in 2008-2009, there was only one black, and she once lost it on the phone with her boyfriend one evening in the shop after he called her up wanting her to blow off class and come home for sex. She’d paid for tuition and payed for her gear, and he just didn’t give a rip. That’s the attitude toward learning typical of blacks.

    On the other hand, many of us came in to the shop on evenings outside our assigned days just to hone our skills. The instructor was OK with that as long as the necessary equipment was free. I even bought an oxyfuel setup and flux-core arc welder that year so I could practice at home.

    Despite what they would like, there aren’t any shortcuts. Learning an academic discipline or skilled trade requires persistence and work. There isn’t a Knowledge Fairy who can wave her magic learning wand and grant wanted skills to dim-witted loafers.