Did Neanderthal Man Die Out Because He Was Too Smart for His Own Good?

Daily Mail (London), November 17, 2011

We like to think our superior brainpower led to their demise.

But it seems the real reason the Neanderthals died out may be because they were too clever for their own good.

Researchers say that rather than being outwitted by the superior intellect of modern man, our caveman cousins were every bit as sophisticated.

Their brains and charms led to them being sought as mates by our ancestors, who, due to simple numbers, soon began to rule the roost.

Arizona State University academics came up with the theory after running data about life in Europe and Asia during the last Ice Age through a computer program.

Neanderthals and modern humans lived alongside each other for thousands of years during that time, before the former became extinct 30,000 years ago.

The study suggests that as the two peoples roamed further in the search for food, the Neanderthals were slowly absorbed by the more numerous modern humans, until they disappeared as a recognisable population.

The interbreeding meant that their own line died out, said Professor Julien Riel-Salvatore, of the University of Colorado, adding: ‘In many ways they were simply victims of their own success.’

Professor Michael Barton, of Arizona State University, the lead author of the study, said: ‘We designed theoretical and methodological frameworks that incorporated feedback across three evolutionary systems: biological, cultural and environmental.

‘One scientifically interesting result of this research, which studied culturally and environmentally driven changes in land-use behaviours, is that it shows how Neanderthals could have disappeared not because they were somehow less fit than all other hominins who existed during the last glaciation, but because they were as behaviourally sophisticated as modern humans.’

Prof Riel Salvatore, who co-authored the research, added: ‘It’s been long believed that Neanderthals were outcompeted by fitter modern humans and they could not adapt.

Researchers said this could only have happened if Neanderthals were as ‘behaviourally sophisticated’ as modern humans.

The theory, published in the journal Human Ecology, fits in with research which found inter-breeding meant up to 4 per cent of the DNA of people living in some parts of the world comes from the stocky cavemen.

‘We are changing the main narrative. Neanderthals were just as adaptable and in many ways, simply victims of their own success.’

The team used archeological data to track behavioural changes in Western Eurasia and found that human mobility increased over time, probably in response to environmental change.

Prof Riel-Salvatore said: ‘Neanderthals had proven that they could roll with the punches and when they met the more numerous modern humans, they adapted again.

‘But modern humans probably saw the Neanderthals as possible mates. As a result, over time, the Neanderthals died out as a physically recognisable population.’

Prof Barton added: ‘We tested the modelling results against the empirical archaeological record and found that there is evidence that Neanderthals, and moderns, did adapt their behaviours in the way in which we modelled.

‘Moreover, the modelling predicts the kind of low-level genetic admixture of Neanderthal genes that are being found in the newest genetic studies just now being published.

‘In other words, successful behavioural adaptations to severe environmental conditions made Neanderthals, and other non-moderns about whom we know little, vulnerable to biological extinction, but at the same time, ensured they made a genetic contribution to modern populations.’

He added: ‘The kind of modelling we did in this research is very new in paleoanthropology, as is the continental scope of the archaeological analysis we used to test the model results.

‘However, such computational modelling can refine our understanding of long-term human impact on the environment that can help inform land-use decisions for our future.

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  • Cliff Yablonski

    “But it seems the real reason the Neanderthals died out may be because they were too clever for their own good.

    Their brains and charms led to them being sought as mates by our ancestors, who, due to simple numbers, soon began to rule the roost.”

    Oh…My….God….

    A chilling description of exactly what is happening today to the white race.

  • Anonymous

    A curious note. When I was a creationist, I remember hearing they used to say that Neanderthals had been vastly underrated by modern science, that they were highly advanced and at least as intelligent as modern humans, etc. Of course they were totally wrong about a lot of things, like Neanderthals having bone disorders, but it’s just a funny thing that they have turned out to be right on this one issue.

    “The interbreeding meant that their own line died out, said Professor Julien Riel-Salvatore, of the University of Colorado, adding: ‘In many ways they were simply victims of their own success.’”

    What lesson could Whites today learn from our unfortunate fellow-travelers on evolution’s tree?

  • Dave C

    Obviously the same thing is happening here in the USA, and without some serious changes in thinking, it will continue until the whites have been wiped out whether by interbreeding or other means.

    We should not let the USA become a 21st century Rhodesia or South Africa. Unfortunately the USA looks more and more like those places every day, and all in the name of “diversity”.

  • William Hendershot

    “But modern humans probably saw the Neanderthals as possible mates. As a result, over time, the Neanderthals died out as a physically recognisable population.”

    Pretty much what’s happening to whites these days.

  • olewhitelady

    For whatever reason, Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon interbred. It’s been scientifically proven. Thus, Neanderthals didn’t die out or become extinct any more than Cro-Magnon did. The result of their interbreeding is modern, non-subsaharan-African man.

  • Buridan

    Not very convincing, to say the least…

    Why were Neandertalians less numerous ? One sees a good reason for that : they were less numerous because they were less technically developped, so they lived in much lower densities. And why were they less technically developped, not during some centuries, but during thousands years and even tens of thousands years ? Probably because their brain was not as good ad the one of the newcomers.

  • Anonymous

    A parallell can be made between the white man and the Indians of North America.

  • wonderman

    If we started selectively breeding for overall intelligence, whatever that is, and assuming that we had all the correct weights for all the various subtypes of intelligence, what would the end result look like? do you think that physical appearance would change?

  • Skeptic

    One day a variety of humans will emerge who understand that no species has ever had an offspring that is genetically more complex and advanced than itself. This new breed of humans will have such large, powerful brains that they will realize that it is impossible for non-living matter to become alive. These super-humans will have such advanced powers of reasoning that they will be able to examine the evidence in the fossil record for themselves, and see whether it consists of millions of transitional stages of each species as they develop down through the ages, or not.

  • Anonymous

    There is something of a parallel between what happened to the Neaderthals of the Old World and what happened to the Indians of America. Let me explain.

    We now know that modern humans caused Neanderthals to disappear as a physically recognizable population through both competition and some interbreeding. Likewise, the white man caused the Indians to largely disappear from the North American continent through both lethal means (disease and warfare) and non-lethal means (interbreeding). The end result of the first was a non-African hominid population that mostly decends from an African diaspora that occured less than 100,000 years ago, but none-the- less has a small infusion of Neaderhtals DNA in it. Likewise in the US, the non-Hispanic white population in some cases possesses a small amount of Indian DNA, especially in places like Oklahoma. Of course this is all now being undermined through the mass immigration of mestizos and Amerindians from Latin America.

  • Anonymous

    Probably poppy-cock. Neandertal was known to attack Crow-Magnan man. They have evidence (which is being ignored or supressed) that Crow Magnon built high hill in Spain, and defended them or used them to coerce attack from Neandertal. Anthropologists ran tests on Neandertal Spears, and Crow Magnon, Neandertals were heavier and generally would not be thrown as far as Crow Magnons. 10 Years ago it was ‘ruled’ that there was no interbreeding, things have changed. Yea, Tal was smart, but he was also a thuggish retard.Crow magnon might today be considered ‘neandertal’ because of his higher testosterone. Neandertal would be a total freak. I think the IQ determinant was lower than blacks, around 65 IQ for Neandertal based on this tactical information- This was a program on PBS 11 years ago. I tried posting on an ‘anthropology’ message board (of the best and brightest) and yea, it was in full- Political Correctness mode. Finally they made it private and I was no longer in. Very difficult to talk on any Anthropology sites about racial issues, which is the MOST INTERESTING THING TO TALK ABOUT! Why are people different, why do blacks do this, why asians do that, statistical populations, etc.

    Problem is that the religion of PC can fairly quickly be debunked, and they don’t like that in general. There were a couple people who fought the good fight, and even a woman who married a black guy who came to my rescue once or twice.

    I posted that there was a simple test to show the Male mind of a 7 year old is more advanced in certain ways than your average female college student. No one wanted to see the test, amazingly, but I actually got PRIVATE MESSAGES saying: ‘you don’t really have a test like that do you?”- PRIVATE MESSAGE! And no, they didnt want to see the test.

    Totally unbelievable. This is a College group? Don’t believe a word I say, go try and post logical scientific stuff about race on any anthro board. You won’t last long.

  • Awakened

    “But it seems the real reason the Neanderthals died out may be because they were too clever for their own good.

    Researchers say that rather than being outwitted by the superior intellect of modern man, our caveman cousins were every bit as sophisticated.

    Their brains and charms led to them being sought as mates by our ancestors, who, due to simple numbers, soon began to rule the roost.”

    *************************

    This is what is happening to White people right now. Our women are being sought out as mates by smaller-brained and less intelligent Black men. More and more White women are miscegenating with these Black men and also men of other races. However, unlike our ancient ancestors, we are dealing with something that they could not even conceive of, and that is a publishing media that encompasses newspapers, magazines, advertisements; an electronic media that is comprised of TV, which includes sit-coms, sports, the news, and much more. Let’s also not forget Hollywood. All of these relentlessly praise Blacks and disparage and demean Whites. Our continuing demise is not a “natural” process like the ancient one might have been. It is a planned and well-orchestrated attack by people who consciously want to destroy us.

  • fred

    Those who fail to learn from the past…

  • John Engelman

    inter-breeding meant up to 4 per cent of the DNA of people living in some parts of the world comes from the stocky cavemen.

    – Daily Mail (London), November 17, 2011

    ——

    It would probably be more accurate to say that four percent of uniquely human genes of humans who are not one hundred percent African blacks came from Neanderthals. That certainly indicates that Cro Magnons were usually successful in competition with Neanderthals.

    Remains from their campsites indicate that Cro Magnons had more elaborate took kits than Neanderthals, and that they practiced trade and planned for the future as Neanderthals did not. This in turn indicates that they were more intelligent.

  • Anonymous

    So, Neanderthals were out bred and absorbed into a new population of humans 30,000 years ago before the historical record, top new academics discover, yet these same researchers are being out bred by forces very vocal and hostile to them, right here right now, and they’ve yet to investigate this or even notice. Must be the enduring curse of the big brain.

  • Seneca the Younger

    “Their brains and charms led to them being sought as mates by our ancestors, who, due to simple numbers, soon began to rule the roost”

    Sounds familiar doesn’t it? I hate to say it, but…history repeats itself.

    And not to be a bummer, but I don’t see it taking thousands of years for whites to disappear. We already went from 34% of the world’s population to roughly 7% in a little over 60 years.

  • Larry

    It’s the same genocide via mass immigration and assimilation that is happening in every White country today.

  • Anony

    Just like Whites being put out of existence because they are the most prized mates by other lesser groups. I would not be surprised if groups with the most Neanderthal DNA have high IQs.

  • Lygeia

    Okay. Let me get this straight. Neanderthals “died out” because they successfully mated? Wow. George Orwell must be rolling in his grave over this bit of doublespeak.

    Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon’s evolved into modern white people. This is what I believe.

  • Charles Hastings

    “The interbreeding meant that their own line died out, said Professor Julien Riel-Salvatore, of the University of Colorado, adding: ‘In many ways they were simply victims of their own success.’”

    Just like white people!

  • ATBOTL

    The data seems to show that Melanesians and the like actually have the most Neanderthal(and other Home Erectus) ancestry of modern Eurasian populations, despite no evidence that Neanderthals ever lived in SE Asia. That suggests that the first wave of modern humans to leave Africa(Melanesians are believe to be heavily descended from the earliest migrants) mixed with Neanderthals in SW Asia and carried relatively high frequencies of Neanderthals genes with them. Subsequent waves of African migrants may have encountered an already mixed population in Western Eurasia.

  • Scott Wilson

    I supposed Neanderthals suffered from ‘Neanderthal guilt’ because they were smarter and better fed than their southern neighbors. Let’s ask the Neanderthals how they benefitted from diversity…oh wait, we can’t, they’re all dead now.

  • Anonymous

    As always, race is destiny.

    “We should not let the USA become a 21st century Rhodesia or South Africa.”

    There are many other examples. If the United States’s whites interbred with non-whites enough, soon we’d resmble India, Haiti, ancient Egypt, Mexico, Brazil, Iran, the Caribbean, North and East Africa and parts of South America.

    Rather than whites dieing out suddenly, the lighter-skinned caste would hang on as the nucleus of the ruling establishment, negotiating with a restive, dark underclass. It would be a life of burden, always struggling to maintain security.

    Never again would a white person enjoy the feeling of secure borders, being himself among a majority of his own kind. Like the Neanderthal, the threat of extinction would be always on the doorstep.

  • Anonymous

    30,000 years later, the exact same thing is happening to the white race today. Everything old, is new again.

  • Netzach

    Well, brain isn’t everything, you know. Experts disagree, but most seem to think that Neanderthal larynx was kind of badly placed and maybe less developed than Cro-Magnon’s, making them less capable of complex speech. They lived in Ice Age North, too, which was a lot more hostile environment than Africa, hence the population density would have been lower. Overall they’d been comparatively very badly placed to develop technology compared to modern humans, even if they were as smart or smarter. They weren’t exactly overran in one swoop (for one they were physically better adapted to freezing climate). In the long term though, struggle against much more populous subspecies, more technologically advanced, and maybe living in larger groups, was only going to end one way.

    If they were as smart, but in a somewhat different way, then some hybrids would have possessed advantageous traits that were selected for, others disadvantageous and selected against. If they were actually smarter, then all the much better for the hybrids. I doubt the eugenic effect from that alone would have been particularly large, and anyway the whole question needs more research, but interesting in any case.

    ATBOTL,

    “The data seems to show that Melanesians and the like actually have the most Neanderthal(and other Home Erectus) ancestry of modern Eurasian populations, despite no evidence that Neanderthals ever lived in SE Asia. That suggests that the first wave of modern humans to leave Africa(Melanesians are believe to be heavily descended from the earliest migrants) mixed with Neanderthals in SW Asia and carried relatively high frequencies of Neanderthals genes with them. Subsequent waves of African migrants may have encountered an already mixed population in Western Eurasia.”

    Neanderthals are often though not always classed as subspecies of Homo sapiens, and they certainly were much more akin to modern humans than the relatively primitive Homo erectus (the hominid tree is seriously complex for many reasons). Of course it appears that a lot of human populations have interbred to some extent with non-Homo sapiens sapiens (ie. us) species. Controversial question of course, for legitimate scientific and the ordinary ideological reasons.

  • Keith

    @anonymous who wrote “Neandertal was known to attack Crow-Magnan man.”

    Do you have any links to websites that talk about any of the information you shared on your post. Do you have any book recommendations?

  • ABC

    Will the people of this world be happy to have only one breed of dog, one kind of bird in the sky and only one kind of tree.

    By wanting diversity, we might as well say good-bye to the real diversity that was created for everyone to enjoy.

    Soon enough we will have only one kind of people, brown skin, brown eyes and only one dark type of hair.

    I don’t know about you, but I know we need each race of people to live separate lives, so that we can each admire the diversity of each others culture and beauty on this world.

  • Hapalong Cassidy

    I think that Cro Magnon may have been more technologically advanced than Neandertal, but I think that may have more to do with the fact that Cro Magnon came from a much milder climate than the Neandertals. It’s the same reason why Northern Europeans, although having higher IQ’s than Middle Easterners, lagged way behind them early on in history.

  • JCC- just a grain of salt

    Many U.S. blacks are perhaps 15% white ancestry so whites share some genes with them. That doesn’t mean that whites are partly black.

    In the same way, the neanderthal specimens studied may be already partly cromagnon-?

  • Anonymous

    “More and more White women are miscegenating with these Black men and also men of other races.”

    True, but there are as many White men marrying and having children with asian women. Don’t be so swift to cast the first stones.

  • Scientist

    The important fact is that with even one single Neanderthal gene surviving, the “we are all Africans”-nonsense can be finally put to rest.

    http://in-other-news.com/2011/The_death_of_the_Out-of-Africa_theory

  • Ryan

    Neanderthals were around far longer than the modern man has been, and yet they never developed out of stone age tools even with their massive intellects? This article is pure speculation, nothing more.

  • Anonymous

    Reply to #30:

    Sorry but I just don’t buy that. At least 90% of the mixed race couples I see are black male / white female. At least.

  • Fender

    There was no art in the artifacts Tal left behind, hence Tal was unemotional and probably as dumb as a bag of hammers.

    Thinking is emotion. The most intelligent are fragile, sensitive types like Einstein, Bobby Fischer, Wittgenstein, Newton, Pascal etc.

    Tal was incredibly strong though. I think the stronger males could go toe to toe with a bear. The weakest female could whip Brock Lesnar.

  • Anonymous

    @anonymous who wrote “Neandertal was known to attack Crow-Magnan man.”

    Do you have any links to websites that talk about any of the information you shared on your post. Do you have any book recommendations?

    No, sorry, it was a PBS anthropology program, about Neandertals, and I even looked it up for refrense a few years after it first aired, and could not find the exact program. Funny, the ‘goofy’ looking Anthropologist was ‘for’ inbreeding theory and all that, although he would sort of be pushing it as a ‘possibility’, and the ‘serious’ looking anglo anthropologist looked and sounded like a real scientist.

    and as posted above, they found more advanced tools around Crow-Magnon sites and behaviors which included forethought for future planning, proving higher intellect, which the PC Anthropology institute keeps ignoring or denying.

    Perhaps some of the younger females were mated with because Crow-Magnon was more successful, and advanced, and some of the Neandertal females could see a better deal, and then some younger male Cro-Magnons may have gotten some ‘cougar’-if thats possible, older females. Males are known to have sex with about anything. The mating urges would be alot stronger back then also. But I believe 200,000 years denotes species separation.

    Found this though:

    https://s17-us2.ixquick-proxy.com/do/highlight.pl?ah=1&l=english&cat=web&c=hf&q=cro+magnon+hills+spain&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.trussel.com%2Fprehist%2Fbato.htm&rid=LHLNMMLLNPSK&hlq=http%3A%2F%2Fixquick.com%2Fdo%2Fmetasearch.pl&mtflag_ac=0&mtcat=web&mtcmd=process_search&mtlanguage=english&mtlui=english&mtenginecount=8

  • yuh

    Sounds dubious – I read a book about Cro-Magnons not too long ago and Neandertal tools were way behind, and more importantly stayed static for, I think, hundreds of thousands of years, or at least, tens. Where Cro-Magnons’ advanced, and made art. When Neandertal tools / weapons did improve, it was due to contact with Cro-Magnons. I’m prepared to root for Neandertals, and they did have bigger brains I seem to recall but, I came away with, that the smarts just weren’t there, compared to the Cro-Magnons.

  • Anonymous

    I think Neanderthals downfall was that he was too well adopted to his environment, so he had no darwinian pressure to overcome by developing technological or organisatorical means. Brains are much harder to evolve than brawns.

    Earliest signs of science/tech capable whites arise about 15K years ago during late ice age when some white hunter bands develop simple means such as the fire pit that allows them to surivive on the frozen tundra. Even today the vast majority of whites lack any ability for science or technology worth mentioning although many can learn to use it in the way monkeys can learn to use a hammer.