European Romani Exodus Began 1,500 Years Ago, DNA Evidence Shows

PhysOrg, December 6, 2012

Despite their modern-day diversity of language, lifestyle, and religion, Europe’s widespread Romani population shares a common, if complex, past. It all began in northwestern India about 1,500 years ago, according to a study reported on December 6th in Current Biology, a Cell Press publication, that offers the first genome-wide perspective on Romani origins and demographic history.

The Romani represent the largest minority group in Europe, consisting of approximately 11 million people. That means the size of the Romani population rivals that of several European countries, including Greece, Portugal, and Belgium.

“We were interested in exploring the population history of European Romani because they constitute an important fraction of the European population, but their marginalized situation in many countries also seems to have affected their visibility in scientific studies,” said David Comas of the Institut de Biologia Evolutiva at Universitat Pompeu Fabra in Spain.

The Romani people lack written historical records on their origins and dispersal. To fill in the gaps in the new study, Comas and Manfred Kayser from Erasmus University Rotterdam in the Netherlands, together with their international European colleagues, gathered genome-wide data from 13 Romani groups collected across Europe to confirm an Indian origin for European Romani, consistent with earlier linguistic studies.

The genome-wide evidence specified the geographic origin toward the north or northwestern parts of India and provided a date of origin of about 1,500 years ago. While the Middle East and Caucasus regions are known to have had an important influence on Romani language, the researchers saw limited evidence for shared genetic ancestry between the European Romani and those who live in those regions of the world today. Once in Europe, Romani people began settling in various locations, likely spreading across Europe via the Balkan region about 900 years ago.

“From a genome-wide perspective, Romani people share a common and unique history that consists of two elements: the roots in northwestern India and the admixture with non-Romani Europeans accumulating with different magnitudes during the out-of-India migration across Europe,” Kayser said. “Our study clearly illustrates that understanding the Romani’s genetic legacy is necessary to complete the genetic characterization of Europeans as a whole, with implications for various fields, from human evolution to the health sciences.”

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  • ATBOTL

    They need to be sent back to India.

    • pcmustgo

      There’s probably a reason the Indians kicked them out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • The__Bobster

        And why Lindsay Lohan punched one out. BTW, India doesn’t want them back.

      • WorldMap

        It is fun watching high IQ geniuses speculating without having a clue about history [in your case, which is a google search away anyway] or geography/cartography [in the case of the guy who claimed Egypt is a ‘lot’ closer to India than Rome’] all the while criticizing non-whites even if they yawn. Good going, no wonder a lot of your own kind are not convinced by you guys even when you tell the truth.

        Here’s a bit of history for you – It’s the invading Muslim raiders who took thousands of these people as slaves after they lost the way and dragged them all the way to the Byzantine empire’s proximity back in the first millennium.

        • Dr. Möbias

          Hey genius. This is a White nationalist site

          If you don’t like it… Thread exit is that way ——>

          • WorldMap

            Is that how you debate when you realize you don’t enough ammo or when you are horribly wrong about something ? There’s no shame in admitting fault. Then again, how can you admit you are wrong when your IQ is shooting over the roof while ours is barely enough to get by ;-). There’s a saying in my language ‘in its street/territory even a dog is a lion’.

          • Dr. Möbias

            You anti-Whites aren’t telling any non-Whites that they don’t belong in their own countries because their ancestors took the land from other non-Whites centuries ago.

            News Flash for WorldMap: White Europeans are perfectly justified to wish to remain dominant and in full control of our native homelands, in the exact same way as are Mexicans who have some of the strictest immigration laws of any nation outside of Israel.

      • i am

        Did they get kicked out or did they leave when there was nothing left to steal?

      • Gereng

        I think in India they were already a nomadic tribe. With India even 1500 yrs ago running out of free grazing, some groups of Indian nomads simply did as all nomadic herding peoples follow the grass westward. Along the way they picked up certain skills that were of a seasonal demand or were needed only as occasions allowed (following harvests). Tinning, light metal work of all kinds, trading stock (mainly horses) were some of the traditional trades. Being Indians and thus Hindus and their lives already orchestrated around the horoscope and astrology, fortune telling and that kind of thing was second nature. Seeing that all people everywhere back then were deeply superstitous, the Romani were generally tolerated for their skills in soothsaying and non threatening way of life. Somewhere along the route most became Catholic or a version thereof, and this made them seem less Alien.

  • i am

    I thought the jews were Europe’s largest minority

    • The Verdict of History

      100 years ago, perhaps.

    • Katherine McChesney

      Gipsies were massacred during the Holocaust.

      • The__Bobster

        Another reason why I admired the guy.

        • NewlyRacist

          Another reason why you and your ilk are hated. I honestly question sometimes why do I not hate you guys like Blacks do. You totally deserve it! And then this is a site that was complaining yesterday about a negro’s joke about killing whites in his movie !!!!!! Double standards ? Hypocrisy ? I am sure none of that apply to you guys. As a kid I admired Hitler too, not for his killing spree, whatever the count is but for his other abilities.

          • Dr. Möbias

            Hitler is still Hitler even with his name spelled backwards (RELTIH).

            Genocide against my people, White People, is exactly the same thing as genocide against Jews, Native Americans or Tahitians. You anti-Whites want a world with no White people in it. You are no different to a Hitler that wanted a world with no Jews.

            Being a psychopath does not absolve YOU of the very serious crime of justifying/promoting the genocide of my race.

          • NewlyRacist

            See that’s the problem you high-IQ thick skulls don’t seem to understand. I had no hatred for whites. I still don’t hate Whites as a group except for those who gloat over killing others. I have no objection with you guys living in your lands the way you like and just engaging with the world in a normal way [trade etc]. But when I see a***** from your group gloating over genocide [already done] of my people and others [Jews] I don’t have a choice but to hate you. My people till date haven’t invaded your lands and oppressed you and I like that and like it to be like that but that’s not true other way round as is evident from the thumping joy over exterminating gypsies! FYI, I am not a gypsy nor did gypsies ‘invade’ your lands. They were taken as slaves by Muslims just like you dragged blacks all the way to the ‘new’ world ! My people have neither enslaved Muslims nor Whites. In fact we are one of the few peoples in the world who have given shelter to about every group that seeked it, including Jews. While Jews might have wrong in certain ways with you in the past , which I don’t know certainly, they were never persecuted in my land. We have our faults within our country but that’s ‘within’.

          • Dr. Möbias

            Gypsies?

            American Whites exterminated Gypsies?

            You anti-whites keep using history to justify White genocide. i don’t give a damn about Gypsies, I only care about Whites and the fact that Whites are facing race replacement which equals genocide in White homelands.

            Nothing justifies genocide.

            How about staying out of White lands if you hate us so much, which you apparently do.

            You can also drop the insults it only makes your attempts of deflections even more pathetic. Calling us “thick skulls” doesn’t equate you with having much intelligence.

            You’re talking nonsense and using a lot of words to do it.

          • NewlyRacist

            I’d drop it when you do [‘pyschopath’ ? for no reason], so feel free to set the precedent. And you are the one deflecting from one area to another. The context is Gypsies and their genocide by Whites [Hitler and his cohorts]. Can’t infer that much ? Assume you cannot, where did I state anything to the extent of American Whites exterminating Gypsies! Your buffoonery is all public to see. By the way, on the lighter side, I also called you ‘High IQ’ preceding the other phrase ;-) . Carry on the charade!

          • Dr. Möbias

            This is a White nationalist site. Get it?

            Hitler is still Hitler even with his name spelled backwards, RELTIH, get it?

            Why would I acknowledge the “Gypsy” genocide when lefties like you deny the current, ongoing genocide of the White Race?

            After decades of nothing but anti-White policies and propaganda, I won’t discuss any policies until after we Whites are allowed to discuss the ongoing program of White genocide.

            Get it?

            Thread Exit is that way ——–>

            I suggest you find a site more to your liking where you won’t look SILLY and FOOLISH for everyone to see, a place where you can discuss Gypsy genocide, Hitler and evil whites with others who share your genocidal fantasies. This ain’t it.

            You win the prize today: You are officially now a militant idiot of the anti-White kind.

          • NewlyRacist

            “when lefties like you deny the current, ongoing genocide of the White Race?”

            Re-read my posts. Cherry picking doesn’t come off as sharp or ‘realist’ ! Let me say it one last time to really who is the fool here – Genocide of Whites isn’t acceptable to me. I also acknowledge Whites’ to have their lands and live the way they want. NOW, what were you barking about ?

          • Dr. Möbias

            Calm down. What you need to do is take a great big dose of STFU and then ESAD.

          • NewlyR

            Live what you preach POS!

          • NewlyRacist

            And yes genocide against whites is just the same as against anyone else. Where did I say it is acceptable ? All I said is his gloating over genocide conducted of gypsies is sick. Argue it which ever way you want. And Gypsies today aren’t planning a genocide of Whites. What Hitler did to Gypsies was ORGANIZED EXTERMINATION with full state sanction. Deny that !

          • Dr. Möbias

            Where would you lefties be without Hitler?

            Stuffed!!

            Hitler is still Hitler even with his name spelled backwards, RELTIH.

            RELTIH!! LOL

      • David Ashton

        We don’t know for certain the exact numbers killed during the war; ditto, homosexuals. However, there is no need or justification for genocide, whoever are the helpless victims who as individuals have committed no crime. People cannot help how they are born, and that includes white people who are on the receiving end in many ways at present. It is quite possible to see merits in National Socialism and also to regret the wartime actions of its Leader who contributed to German downfall, and which are used today morally to paralyze our present self-defense.

  • http://www.dailykenn.com/ Daily Kenn

    • Trivia: Europeans thought they were from Egypt; hence “gypsy”.

    • 1,500 years and they still haven’t assimilated.

    • Pelagian

      Well, as it turns out, their home was a lot closer to Egypt than Rome. So I will go back to using the non-PC “gypsy”, thankyouverymuch.

      • WorldMap

        Ever looked at a ‘world’ map ? Try that, helps. And you got 5 likes for that ! I wonder how that relates to 100+ IQ . Hmmmm.

        • Pelagian

          sigh. I can’t believe I’m going to all this work for someone who calls himself “WorldMap” but here it is: Calcutta to Cairo, Egypt 3541 miles. Calcutta to Rome, Italy 4371 miles. if you want to talk Western India, Egypt is even closer. http://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-is-it-between.htm

          • WorldMap

            Keeping sighing. Picking up points on the map that suit your argument is lame. Egypt’s northwestern edge is closer to Rome than North-western India [where Roma came from] and Egypt’s South Eastern edge is more closer to India’s western Edge. From the area where Roma came from [that’s not Calcutta genius] Egypt’s geographic center is almost the equidistant from Rome, actually a little bit closer. Feel free to do your math. Try a drawing a circle with radius = Egypt’s center to Rome and see what it does. You people are amazing. Still no knowledge of where Roma came from all the while commenting on it.

          • Gereng

            Back then Indian peoples were living roughly along Pakistan’s north western boundary with Afghanistan. From that region to eastern Bulgaria is about the same distance as between New York and San Francisco. Obviously not an insurmountable distance for people who were probably already nomadic in their home region.

        • Dr. Möbias

          LOL what kind of freaky brainwashing cult got their hands on you?

      • StillModerated

        Pikies! Calling them Romani makes people think they’re Romanians, but gypsies are truly despised by Romanians.

        • Pelagian

          It was Roma for decades. Now it’s Romani. Like Colored to Negro to Black … the victim group calls the shots.

    • Jeff

      “1,500 years and they still haven’t assimilated.”

      That’s the key point right there. That’s what I was thinking too. And they’re higher IQ and better behaved and better integrated than our blacks. I guess we can expect our blacks to be fully integrated, normal citizens within about 10,000 or 20,000 years or so, if we spend about $1tril a year on affirmative action and gibsmedat programs. Total price tag will be around 20 quadrillion dollars if that’s how long it takes. But diversity is our greatest strength, even if we have to wait 20,000 years and spend $20,000,000,000,000,000.00 (twenty quadrillion dollars).

      In contrast, nuclear waste is only really dangerous for a couple thousand years. We can conclude that third world immigrants are more dangerous than nuclear waste.

      Europe is going to find out, one thousand years from now, that no amount of social programs will turn their African Muslims into Swedes, Germans or French.

      George Wallace said “segregation forever”, and history will prove him right.

      • Token Finn

        As a european with extensive experience with gypsies, I prefer blacks over gypsies any day. Blacks are not great news but at least they can be made to respect whites and to put in some effort, with heavy guidance. I’m not opposed to whites helping black improve their condition in Africa (as opposed to bringing them here) as I do not hate them, I just realize that we are too different to be together.
        A gypsy cannot be made to respect anyone but his own vile race, save for extraordinary cases. That was the part of the (alleged) holocaust that almost every european secretly understands.

        • HamletsGhost

          I’d say your relative preference for blacks over Gypsies is related to the amount of exposure. Gypsies can be horrid, but nothing compares with the vileness of Nigris Americanus. At least Gypsies men marry and stay with their families, as nasty as they are, to give some structure to their lives of vagabondage and thievery.

          Interesting point re. the two groups, they both have a reputation for being great musicians and dancers. Even on their few good points, they have lots in common.

    • Gypsy?

      True. Now, is that surprising ? How can we, the non-white low IQ creatures ever integrate with the high IQ masters. Is that even desirable for you guys ? Oh I forget that very high IQ Jews were hounded and segregated. Ironically, that resulted in their high IQ as per research! Now they, along with other high IQ Asians are hounding Whites. What goes around….? Sarcasm aside – people on this site often crib about millions and billions spent on minorities in the Us [blacks primarily, historically]. I was in Puerto Rico recently and I learned a small fact while touring the beautiful forts there built by Spaniards that ‘convoys’ of gold/silver etc were sent form the new world to spain every year for nearly 4 centuries. The cribbing on the other side [by Natives in North America] isn’t unreasonable.

      • Dr. Möbias

        When did you first start hating Whites?

        • Gypsy?

          When I realized they hate everyone other than themselves.

          • Gypsy?

            A Correction: I should have you and your ilk because ‘they’ is just an unfair categorization as I know for fact not all of them hate non-whites.

          • RebelliousTreecko

            A question:

            Do you believe that there is something in the culture or behavior of the Roma (or African, Muslim, etc.) people that could explain negative sentiments against them, or do you think that they are hated just for “being different”?

          • Worldmap

            There could be something that makes them targets of hate. I dont deny the possibility. To me what is not acceptable is celebrating their genocide and asking for more of it. Sorry my morals wont accept that for any group of people. Also hating is okay but turning that hate into a murder machine is not no matter who is on the receiving end.

          • dhs

            Unfortunately, most white men don’t hate non-whites. In fact, prefer to hate themselves.

          • Dr. Möbias

            All the more reason for you to stay out of White homelands.

            There are plenty of countries you can move to where you don’t have to lay eyes on a White person ever again.

            If you can’t stand living in the successful, first-world nations that Whites conceived of and built, then you’re welcome to leave. If you find Whites to be “irredeemably racist” then you can go live in the dumps that your co-ethnics built. 


    • http://profile.yahoo.com/NQHEAYZCMBOERHG2VZRDQ3YUSQ Felix

      Despite persecution, the Romani still thrive. Do you think it’s because they’re a “chosen” people? (sarcasm off)

      But for their having fewer PhD’s, the similarities between the Romani and everyone’s favorite victim group are astounding.

      • Fredrik_H

        Their traditionial word for everyone else not Roma, “gaje”, means peasant. It’s pretty telling how they view the gentiles.

        • Observer

          Or maybe it is an old word coined during times when most people were farmers. Very plausible.

    • Fredrik_H

      Their culture runs counter to assimilation. They have a group identity as strong as jews, perhaps stronger.

  • pcmustgo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBGGVV8C8Tw

    Their women can be really beautiful though… clothes especially.

    • pcmustgo

      Clip, “My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding”

    • pcmustgo
      • pcmustgo

        There’s 1 million in America too

      • http://www.facebook.com/willard.gage.3 Willard Gage

        They do not look Indian at all. These gypsies have much European blood in them.

        • Frank

          It depends on which European nation they live in.
          In eastern Europe they tend to look very Indian as Romanian gypsies or Bulgarian gypsies for example that you can’t tell them apart from an India Indian.

          Most British and Irish gypsies tend to look like European whites but I wonder if a lot of them are not genetically connected to continental gypsies but it was an adapted copycat nomadic lifestyle by certain whites in those countries.

          White Europeans always had stories of gypsies kidnapping their children and raising them as gypsies and there could be some truth to this.

    • HadEnough

      Fourteen? And about to get married?

      • pcmustgo

        This video within has an interesting take on Gypsy Vs. American sexuality… and seems to support Amren readers desire to have white women married off young… I must say their women seem in incredible shape (tight bodies), I guess they are very image driven. I am surprised by how “american” there accents are, with the southern accents and all.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=-79A_nMvvBA

        • pcmustgo

          Basically they dress very slutty but find American culture, with women sleeping with many men before marriage, to be sluttier than theirs.

    • Brad

      As long as you turn off your sense of smell

    • Pelagian

      yuk. Not my type.

  • Pelagian

    since the caste system in India is 2200 years old, I wonder which caste they were from?

  • pcmustgo

    Belly dancing came from Gypsies…. gypsies who were living in Egypt… not from local arabs. Feel free to look it up.

    • The__Bobster

      That’s only one theory. I looked it up.

      http://dance.about.com/od/typesofdance/a/Belly_History.htm

      Belly Dance Origins

      Most belly dancers tend to believe in at least one of many theories explaining how belly dancing originated. The most popular theory is that it evolved from a religious dance.

      Some people believe that it descended from early Egyptian dances, or from the migration of Gypsies from India. Another popular theory is that belly dance began as a traditional birthing practice to help ease the pains of childbirth.

      • Gracchus123

        My favorite theory is that belly dancing came about quite naturally as a “come-on” when the woman was…well…”in the mood”. All the theories simply “muddy the waters”.

  • David Ashton

    Professor C. D. Darlington compared the vagrant gypsies to the “criminal tribes” so defined in the Indian census 1941. There are different sorts claiming the Roma or Sinti title, and others of Irish tinker ancestry. Some have been active as street thieves in Britain and sending their takings back to Romania, though the Romanian people have no affection for them.

  • pcmustgo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ86pQkzoVI

    Naturally Blond Gypsys… “My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding”

  • Triarius

    Romani is Vulgar Latin for “of Roman”. They are not people from Rome. Whre the extra ‘r’ came from, I have no idea, Rromani. Some Romanian friends showed me that.

    I guess Gypseys are the new mud the EU love but the people hate.

    • Pelagian

      The extra r is only used by Romanians, who are understandably a little cheesed off at the brand confusion.

    • Skincognito

      Whenever I use the “m-word” I get moderated! What the heck? Sorry I don’t tweet or fakebook. But yes, you are correct, sir. I have worked with some physically striking, racially loyal Romanians, and the fallacious assumption among certain Anglo-Americans that they are gypos is thoroughly refuted by my frequent and personal experience with many of these hearty, rural people. They are pretty mysoginistic however, but here on amren this is a touchy subject, so I won’t digress.

  • NYB

    So now we can identify them by their true names: ex-pat Indians, or Indian illegals.

    Modern India can claim them as Non-Resident Indians, and grant them rights of return and citizenship.

    Europe and India should enter into talks to repatriate them immediately. We’ll pay the fare.

  • Katherine McChesney

    Elvis Presley’s mother was Romani.

    Meridian, Miss. is home of a sect of Romani. This is the burial place of the King and Queen of Gipsies in U.S.

    http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/785

    I remember in the 50’s Gypsies would visit Nashville, TN. every year around the summer solstice to bury their dead. Radio announcers would tell listeners when they’d arrived so they would lock their doors. They were tinkers, repairing pots and pans.

    • The__Bobster

      Why is there so much misinformation being posted in response to this story?

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033770/Elvis-gipsy-King-says-traveller-magazine.html

      But a magazine which claims that Elvis was a gipsy is simply peddling more, critics say.

      The journal, which cost taxpayers up to £70,000, was produced by organisers of the Government backed gipsy history month and sent to schools.

      It says that Elvis Presley was descended from German gipsies who emigrated to the U.S. in the early 18th century, pointing out that his mother’s maiden name was Smith – said to be a common surname used by British Romanies.

      The journal also claims gipsy descent for Charlie Chaplin, Sir Michael Caine and Rita Hayworth.

      But an expert has accused the magazine of spreading ‘cant and misinformation’ and pointed out that Elvis never claimed traveller origins.

  • potato78

    Europeans came from Africa, India, and Middle East. That is weird. All those areas are black and dark skin color. Europeans are albino from those areas? Or just some europeans are truely from those areas, always have mislead some other true white Europeans?

  • pcmustgo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUjwEoPojKU

    Middle of this video, more talk about how Gorger women (as in non-gypsies) are “dirty”, “smut” , “filth”,

  • IstvanIN

    Gypsies: the Indians even the Untouchables don’t want. Why else were they expelled?

    • Jacksparrow

      They weren’t expelled. Honest question: wouldn’t it be more intellectual if you guys read a bit instead of speculating endlessly? You guys criticize everyone else for their low IQ. Fair enough. But I don’t see that intellect reflecting here. Maybe the topic doesn’t interest you. Then why make up stories about what may have happened?

      • Gracchus123

        it’s called friendly discussion; this board is not a court of law. Among other things, it is a place where we can “vent” and talk about stuff that we cannot talk about anywhere else. I liken it to your (mostly) friendly neighborhood bar.

    • cz

      As someone born in Czechoslovakia with large gypsy minority and having traveled extensively in India I dare say that gypsies were not expelled from India. 90 percent of population of indian subcontinent ARE gypsies. The small tribe simply multiplied over years to reach over one billion in indian sub.Those in Europe were just a little more clever to find out 1500years ago that it is better find a host population to feed off of, just like contemporary Indians flooding the West today. There are too many similarities between the everage gypsy and the everage indian:language,complexion,facial features ,deceit and delusion,corruption,impulsive behaviour,high birthrate,living in large extended families,group mentality etc. Go to Britain and you will see that new gypsy arrivals from eastern europe live side by side with pakistanies and indians, completely indistinguishable from one another mentaly or physically.

      • Observer

        The physical similarity between gypsies and Indians is somewhat like between European Jews and Europeans [nonJews]. Culturally gypsies are only small part of the vast ethnic landscape of India. Genetically, I have no data to conclude either way but I remember in one of their histories that were either lower-castes or a mix of lower-caste nomads and higher caste fighters who were taken as slaves by Muslim raiders. Also the cultural traits such as – morals, high birth rate, impulsivesness etc vary significantly along with intelligence from lower to upper [Priest/Warrior] castes. Extended family was a common feature of the old world, not unique to Indians or gypsies, gypsies seem to have remained in a time freeze. I think Italians and Russians have large families even today, especially in rural areas. I would suggest the group mentality probably helped them survive. You can criticize it as much as you want but from evolution that could have been a good survival trait. Aren’t Whites struggling to survival exactly because of lacking those two things – large families and group instincts ? It is true that a lot of Indian arrivals to the west now-a-days are a mix of castes with a large lower/middle caste contingent which explains the ‘mentality’.

  • pcmustgo

    “In the 17th century Oliver Cromwell shipped Romanichals as slaves to the American southern plantations[31] and there is documentation of English Romanies being owned by freed black slaves inJamaica, Barbados, Cuba and Louisiana.[”

    This from wikipedia… FREE BLACKS OWNED ROMNICHAL GYPSIES AS SLAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reparations, Blacks?:

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Prospero-Tempesto/100003555229680 Prospero Tempesto

    Nobody is flooding Black countries with
    non-blacks to create a ‘blended humanity’ in only Black

    countries.

    Nobody
    is flooding Asian countries with non-asians to create a ”blended
    humanity in only Asian countries.

    ONLY
    in White countries are we expected to ‘assimilate’ with foreign
    races.

    This
    Anti-White attempt to Turn all White countries Brown is GENOCIDE.

    Anti-racist
    is a code word for anti-White.

    WhiteGenocideProject
    com

  • Strider73

    So the new PC term for gypsies is “Romani.” Well, that certainly gives a new meaning to the famous cinematic declaration “ROMANI ITE DOMUM!”