Western Manners: The Latest Chinese Status Symbol

Virginie Mangin, BBC News, February 20, 2015

Five Chinese women are sitting upright in their chairs, designer handbags at their heels, listening attentively to a trendy Chinese Tatler magazine photographer describe how to pose in public. He is talking makeup, light and cheekbones. The room is decorated with Pierre Frey wallpaper and the participants sip tea out of a Bernardaud tea set. Notepad in hand, they are learning the dos and don’ts of camera etiquette.

The course entitled “How to pose elegantly in front of the camera” is one of many offered by Institute Sarita, a modern-day version of European finishing schools that caters to Chinese nouveaux riche. Other courses offered by the school, located in the trendy Sanlitun district of Beijing, include how to raise children, proper table manners and luxury brand pronunciation.

“Most of my clients had an embarrassing moment, overseas or during a business dinner. They come here because they want to make thing easier for themselves,” said Sara-Jane Ho, the perfectly groomed school founder, as she sat in a drawing room furnished with imported French antique furniture.

“It’s mostly learning about how to behave in an international environment,” said Ho, who herself studied etiquette at the Institut Villa Pierrefeu in Switzerland, one of the last proper finishing schools in the world. So far she has attracted a couple hundred wealthy Chinese to her courses. She is opening a Shanghai branch in May.

With 190 billionaires and more than two million millionaires, China tags just behind the US in number of high-net-worth individuals, according to research from Forbes magazine and Boston Consulting Group.

Many of these fortunes have grown rapidly, in lock-step with China’s newly expanding economy and multiplying business opportunities. Some who find themselves newly wealthy have little knowledge or training in how to behave in international business or social events.

“The country was so isolated 30 years ago,” said Ho. “The spike in wealth has happened in a compressed time. This transformatin has created a lot of pressure on individuals.”

As a result, some businesspeople may appear uncouth and blunt to their western or Asian counterparts. Finesse, on the other hand, can smooth many business transactions. “Simply knowing how to be comfortable with a knife and fork can be a deal clincher,” said James Hebbert, who represents Seatton, a British etiquette school, in China.

Filling a niche

Clients who attend etiquette courses in China include government officials, children enrolled in overseas schools, wives looking to entertain important guests and those who enjoy travelling abroad.

“There is a huge demand all along the spectrum,” said Hebbert, whose clients were first primarily drivers of Rolls Royces wanting to dress the part, then evolved to middle-class customers in search of a British-lifestyle experience. “In just a few years, I have seen a real shift in clientele. More and more Chinese are travelling. They see the advantage of having an international edge.”

If learning how to peel an orange with a knife and fork may seem slightly superfluous in Europe, in China the newly rich are ready to pay what it takes to acquire the manners that come with their new status.

“The next time I visit Milan and dine in a nice restaurant I can confidently tell my husband he shouldn’t hold his knife like a dagger,” said a participant of a two-hour Western dining etiquette course with James Hebbert in Shanghai, who did not want her name used.

Hebbert charges 20,000 yuan ($3,243) per group of 10 for an afternoon session.

Institute Sarita’s most popular course, “Hostessing”, costs 100,000 Chinese yuan renminbi ($16,216) for 12 days in which the client learns skills ranging from engaging in small talk to pairing wines with a meal.

Lack of manners

Media and even the Chinese president have been critical of how some Chinese travellers have behaved on trips. On a September trip to the Maldives, Chinese President Xi Jinping suggested Chinese citizens be “a bit more civilised when travelling abroad.”

With more than 100 million Chinese travelling in 2014, misbehaviours have grabbed headlines worldwide. Among the most extreme: defacing an Egyptian sculpture, throwing boiling water on a flight attendant and urinating outside.

In October, China’s National Tourism Administration issued strict guidelines on how to behave while travelling. In a 64-page booklet, Chinese tourists are warned against peeing in swimming pools, stealing life jackets from planes and leaving footprints on the toilet seat. Punishments for such behaviours include fining tour operators and blacklisting rude tourists.

“The Chinese have no manners. It’s just not something that is taught by parents. I am always surprised when men hold the door for me in Paris. This would never happen in China,” said Yue-Sai Kan, a Sino-American TV host and producer, and author of Etiquette for the Modern Chinese, a national bestseller that has sold more than three million copies. Today, Kan lectures on etiquette and trains Chinese contestants for the Miss Universe contest.

While some of what is perceived as rude by Westerners stems from cultural issues–the notion of public space and privacy is very different in China–other ill-manners date back to the Cultural Revolution when all that was seen as sophistication was considered bourgeois and severely punished.

“Let’s say that when you’re struggling to get food you are not thinking about private space,” Ho explained.

What can seem to an outsider as impolite today–such as pushing, queue barging, speaking loudly or picking your nose in public–is common behaviour for the majority of Chinese. But as China opens up and engages with the world awareness is growing among the population on how they are being perceived overseas.

A new face

To disassociate themselves from this reputation, many of the new elite are seeking refinement at etiquette schools. At the same time, they are looking to good manners as a new form of status symbol.

“[The Chinese] understand that their position as the most powerful country in the world puts them in a situation where they need to learn about other cultures and behaviours so as to smoothen political and business relationships,” said Viviane Neri, principal of Institut Villa Pierrefeu, in an email.

“Before, it was about owning a big car,” said Hebbert. “Now the rich are looking for something else to make the difference.”

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  • JackKrak

    Remember to always say “Thank you” after successfully conducting industrial espionage to gain aerospace, defense, manufacturing and and technical expertise that, despite our alleged brain power, we’ve never been able to come up with ourselves.

    • John Smith

      If you grease the palms of a few major politicians, usually Democrat (e.g., Bill Clinton), they’ll just give it to you after you thank them.

    • Ultimate187

      All nations conduct espionage. It is in fact one of the smartest things China is doing for itself right now.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        You might be right about all nations doing some espionage. The main issue here, aside from this particular discussion, is how much would the Chinese be creating on their own without it? I think that is an important question to ask, and it is also why so many on here bring up espionage (aside from this particular discussion where the focus is morality).

        • Marcus Cafaro

          It is not nearly an equal level playing field for Chinese right now, most of them are still dirt poor. They have 1.3 billion people that make up the size of the U.S. economy. That means that the average Chinese is 4.5 times less well-off than the average American. Imagine how much harder it is to be creative and invent things when literally all your thinking about is meeting the bare essentials.

          For the most part, creativity is only available when you have your basic needs taken care of, and when your mind can wander and imagine things.

          Also, modern day inventions are not like those in past days, where litearlly one man can create an entirely new invention. Science and technology has become so advanced that its one guy who has a vision, but then has a whole team of engineers and PHD’s behind him to realize that vision. By the way, do you know what percentage of these PHD’s and engineers are from East Asian countries? Literally in the 25-50% range, which is humongous considering their small population size in the U.S.

          There is a reason why race realists like Rushton, or Lynn, or Jenssen, praise East Asians. These people are all awfully blunt about blacks, hispanics, Arabs, etc, so why would they praise East Asians so much? Maybe its because East Asian actually deserve some of the merit?

          Again, the worst thing we can do is underestimate East Asians, because then it will be all the easier for them to dominate the coming centuries. The Romans did not beat the Carthage by underestimating them. And we will not beat the East Asians by underestimating them.

          • 李冠毅

            You know, I’m tired of national and global competition. Since birth, we have been taught to study hard so we can gain a spot at a top Asian university. This isn’t right. What about the rest of our countrymen, who either had to fork out lots of money to study abroad or attend a subpar Asian university? When we grow up, we will also be told to work hard, get a high paying job, again at the expense of our fellows, not to mention competing against other countries over who gets to make the most money. In my free time, I sometimes daydream about our countries all declaring “this has gone far enough” and stop competing against each other. Instead, start looking out for each other, ensure that everyone gets good education, a decent life, stop discrimination against any group (especially Whites), etc. You don’t have to fight to advance civilization. Ancient China is proof of that. Despite being one of the most stable civilizations in history, they produced a fair amount of inventions up until the last 400 years.

          • adplatt126

            Hardly. Your average Chinese citizen has a sense of pride in their people and their history. They’re not uncomfortable or fearful walking the streets in their own communities. They don’t have to deal with one racial indignity after the next. If I were an Asian I’d take China over being a white and getting to live in America. Competing with China? What planet are you from? We’ve already lost the war here at home. What exactly are we fighting for? We have nothing. Not even nations. Not even states within nations. The Chinese have nothing to compete against except maybe robots and nations with massive militaries but non-functioning societies.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Sure they have huge amounts of pride
            But they are still poor relatively speaking. Nonetheless, the country is still expanding by 7%+ GDP’s per year so…I would say we have already lost the war somewhat.

          • evilsandmich

            the country is still expanding by 7%+ GDP’s per year so.


            Someone at Zero Hedge ran the numbers and if they grew by 7% it’s because their debt holdings increased by 28%. China swore they wouldn’t do it, but they got sucked into the same game as the Japanese and the South Koreans, only they’re running their’s on ‘roids. No nation on earth has a worse total debt-to-gdp ratio.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I don’t exactly trust zerohedge, its the crazies of the financial world.

            Also, I think China is much different from Japan and South Korea in a many of significant ways that would lead to a different outcome. Better or Worse? Who knows, only time will tell.

            As also, I think the Chinese government is extraordinarily capable of controlling the narrative, the Chinese government is made up of some of the smartest people on Earth. Despite all the corruption, greed, etc that goes on, to get to the top in the Chinese political system, one has to be extremely cutthroat and smart.

          • evilsandmich

            Yeah they tend to be a bunch of ultra pro-Russian gold nuts, but their rants can be entertaining so I can’t resist getting sucked in. I do trust them a touch more though than the Ministry of Fudged Numbers in China.

            That being said, even ZH is sanguine about the future of China since their government has enough wiggle room to absorb tons of bad private debt. Not too many people are bringing up what happens to the currency when a mountain of debt like that is monetized in a nation that trusts the currency about as much as the paper sitting next to their toilet.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Lol yea, their Tyler Durden’s can be quite interesting.

            China’s pretty much a unique case in modern history. There have been no country arguably in the history of the modern era with its combination of size, GDP growth, Governmental Setup, etc. Some things that should effect a normal country a certain way could have a completely unpredictable outcome for China. After all, no one would have guessed that China would be able to sustain 10%+ growth in 1970 with a country that has 1/5 of the world’s population.

          • listenupbub

            We typically get smarter Asians immigrating to America. Maybe not the tippy-top, but somewhere up there. Many Asians come to America from Asia for grad school, which is inflating your PhD stat.

            Indian-Americans, for example, are like the richest demographic in America. But IQ researchers put their average IQ’s pretty low, from what I know.

            You are right, though, about the main point. Americans should not underestimate Chinese. China is easier to make fun of than Japan and Korea because they have had terrible communist policies that have held them back, but they will straighten out. They want success too badly.

            White Americans will have to adapt to the 21st century. We need to be up to snuff with our math skills, and should work on learning tech skills earlier in life. Whites need to stop being so morally degenerate, and should act like responsible adults. We should not keep letting blacks determine what is “cool,” thereby making our youth adopt bad attitudes and behaviors that are anti-education and anti-social.

            I have given up hope for the blacks, though.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I completely agree, there is a slight brain drain effect, but again, making the point that American Ingenuity was helped an awful lot by borrowing the talents of East Asians. Would American still be more innovative than East Asia if we didn’t have East Asians immigrating and helping out with research and the stuff? Definately. But you can’t deny that we have been helped by “good immigration” where policy selectively chooses for smarter immigrants, vs “bad immigration” where low iq people get here by hopping fences, and not legitimately through talent.

            There is a statistic somewhere stating that for every Ace Engineer, 10 more jobs are created. So the 5% of Chinese or whatever in this country are actually helping America. They should be the least of our worries.

          • 李冠毅

            Maybe I shouldn’t have upvoted this comment by Johnny Marcus Cafaro. I upvoted it before it was edited to say Mexicans are low IQ.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I hate to say it but I think America will fall behind because our kids are being too influenced by Black culture, where its cool to be an idiot and a thug. Chinese kids for the most part don’t care for that nonsense. This is why black culture is so corrupting,it is chancing our kids’ mindset.

          • evilsandmich

            they have had terrible communist policies that have held them back, but they will straighten out

            I don’t think so. The problem with the Chinese government isn’t it’s ideology, but the fact that it’s run by Chinese people. This isn’t meant as an insult, it’s just that the societal and cultural characteristics of their society make the government what it is today.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Ok, so how do you explain Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore having equal to or higher GDP per capita that U.S. Those countries are run by ethnically Chinese people. Not everythings so simple

          • evilsandmich

            Too lazy to find it, but someone in Taiwan (I believe) said that there was a strong correlation between the length of colonization in Chinese run areas and their level of success. Such things have been found in Africa as well.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            That may be completely true, due to the Western Ideals of democracy being infused into the society(which we all knows does wonders for the free market etc). And I actually do think there is a strong correlation.

            I highly doubt that the Chinese lack of creativity(if this were to be proven, not yet proven) would be a significant variable if Governmental structures.

            There is sort of a logical flaw in your argument that “The problem of Chinese Government being run by Chinese people” being we have no idea how much personality/etc plays into Governmental Systems being set up. If we know that the causation of Governments are 100% caused by a race’s personality traits, which I highly doubt, then we can say for sure that the the problem with the Chinese government is that it is run by Chinese people.

            But then how do you explain the Russian System of government, whereas even though it is technically a democracy, it was only a democracy after the West basically enforced its will upon it? And even being technicallya democracy, they are less democratic than China? And yet Russians are more purely caucasion than almost any Western European country?

            I would not hold too much weight in the idea that Caucasians have a significantly higher degree of creativity than the Chinese, as such a thing has never been tested, unlike IQ. Race realists like Taylor, Rushton, etc, only throw this out as one of many hypothesis explaining current East Asian lack of dominance, despite seemingly higher iq’s

          • evilsandmich

            The problem with Russia is that it’s run by Russians. Notice how quickly they reverted to form. In both places perhaps internal colonization by radicals with different ideas might help, I dunno. As well I don’t think that creativity necessarily equates to good government.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I think you are on to something, but I think pure, dumb luck circumstance has a much bigger role to play in a countries current governance rather than a race’s natural personality tendencies.

            After all, governments are not formed by the entire race, it is formed by one unique, or a few unique peoples with radically different personalities. These few people then enforce his/their will on the entire population. After all, only radically different personalities are required to overthrow old forms of governments.

            These people that are able to rule/set up governments are almost by definition abberations of the race’s natural tendencies, as they have to be extremely different in every single way to be able to accomplish such a task.

            For example, it could be that the Chinese are actually MORE aggressive, free-willed than Europeans, so that when one dude became emperor, he enforced Confucism(which calls for people to be in their place, respect authority) in order to subdue these radical tendencies of the Chinese. As a result of this cultural infusion of Confucism, the East Asians became what they are today, obedient, conformist, etc etc. While this may sound far-fetched, it is to point out the complexity of governance.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Yea all this talk is really just circumstantial, we’ll never know for sure until there is comprehensive genetic testing, and we understand what the genetics tell us.

            But I wouldn’t be surprised if we have a slightly higher Creativity, whereas East Asians have a slightly higher iq.

          • Cid Campeador

            Having been a teacher for almost half a century, it was always a pleasure to go into a class made up of Asian and White students.
            They were a teacher’s dream. When I say Asian I’m referring to Chinese, Korean, Viet and Indian. I did notice without generalizing that some Cambodians and Laotians had a tendency to want to emulate the Homies. Nothing was more ludicrous than to see a Laotian kid trying to speak Ebonics.

  • dd121

    Glad to see their manners improve but they’re still behaving militarily aggressive in places like the South China Sea. Trade with the USA seems to be enabling that behavior.

    • askung

      It is the S. China sea, not the Yankee Sea. Why can’t the US world empire respect other nations interests ? US military spending is ~40 % of world total..

      • dd121

        Because there are a lot of parts of it that don’t belong to them. Their aggressiveness destabilizes the region.

        • askung

          Let the Asians handle that, I’m sure the US does not need Russia policing the gulf of Mexico, either ? US imperialism is what’s killing european (and all ethnic) nationalism.

          “Americanism is inherently populist, egalitarian, imperialistic, progressive, ultracapitalist, poisonous. It has spread to all corners of the world, wreaking havoc from Europe to Japan to India to Iraq to Hawaii, attacking traditional ways of life, demanding a lockstep conformity and a McDonalds on every corner”

          • evilsandmich

            I’m sure the US does not need Russia policing the gulf of Mexico

            I’d be nice if someone did it…
            Along those lines, yes, it would be nice if the American government were as concerned about the border with Mexico as they are with a couple of rocks in the Sea of Whatever.

          • dd121

            Our intervention doesn’t seem to be killing your nationalism. But I don’t remember seeing any story in the news that the USA is militarily challenging Chinese interventionism.

            If China wants to build a fortress on a disputed island, that is guaranteed to get the attention of the superpowers. If it goes unchecked then the Chinese may feel like they can keep pushing and pushing. That kind of action can lead to a regional war or worse.

            Please check your aggression at the door.

          • adplatt126

            False. By providing protection to various Western nations we can force them into our very destructive ideological fold. We’ve done this for decades. The Americanization of the world isn’t completely voluntary, unless you believe people to have an innate affection for b movies, degenerate art, excess debt, and civilizationally destabilizing forces like unfettered individualism and multiculturalism.

  • When I was there, spitting on the street seemed mandatory. I wonder if these etiquette classes will address that.

    • propagandaoftruth

      Most Orientals have a love-hate relationship with the West.

      I respect that. We perplex them more than they perplex us.

      • Bossman

        They are still inscrutable.

        • propagandaoftruth

          You are either inscrutable or utterly scrutable, bro.

          I think they are more scrutable than we are. Which is why they love us.

      • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

        I don’t know about that. We’re pretty upfront about what we want. On the other hand, I have no idea what China wants.

    • John Smith

      Or using clothing to wipe their nose.

      • SentryattheGate

        They have to be told not to pee in the pool!!!! Really? Isn’t that common sense?

    • Alexandra1973

      I’ve heard a saying…”If you expect to rate as a gentleman, you will not expectorate on the floor.”

  • HJ11

    I can see it now like a slow motion movie. First, the U.S. is mostly White, then we see it changing house by house. This White family goes Black. This one goes Yellow. This one goes Brown. Soon, there are no Whites left.

    It’s bedroom genocide and this is the modern way of genocide. No marching people into ditches and killing them. That way leads to war crimes trials. It is much better to just swamp a White land with non-White genes and let nature take over.

    • SentryattheGate

      It’s happened in my family; my nieces have kids with: a black car thief, a Mexican landscape worker, and a Puerto Rican cook. All the baby daddies left w/o paying child support (and have other bastards too), except the Mexican, who took over (white widow) mother-in-law’s house. These girls were granddaughters of a Navy Captain/fighter pilot, later in the Pentagon, veteran of WWII. Sad how far and fast the family degenerated!

      • That’s sad. And all the grandparents get is a lot of coffee colored grandkids that will grow up to hate them.

      • B.A_2014

        I’m sorry to hear that. I have one race mixing tart in my family so you are not alone. She kicked the Bantu to the curb a few months ago but not before she gave birth to her precious little mongrel.

    • “Bedroom genocide”-interesting way to put it, but accurate. A nation can survive a lot of things, but it cannot survive the demographic replacement of it’s core population.

      • HJ11

        Feel free to use the term “bedroom genocide.” It is what it is.

        It takes two Pure White parents–a Pure White female and a Pure White male to produce a pure White child.

        [NB: I use “Pure White” in the commonsense way of indicating that one does not have non-White parents, grandparents or greatgrandparents, and, yes, I know that there are no truly “pure” races simply because that’s not the way evolution works. Nevertheless, I say the term “Pure White,” is a valid and a good one.]

        • That brings me back to my old problem.

        • True, and you need not explain the obvious to us on this website. Save that for YouTube, Face Book, and countless other forums populated by idiots who will try that “There are no pure races” line on you. Peace.

  • Time to horde my Grey Poupon shares.

  • David Ashton

    There is a Chinese girl volunteering for Mars with long blonded hair. “No spitting in the spaceship.”

    • I wouldn’t volunteer for that if I were a woman. The solar radiation on the long trip is going to absolutely fry her ovaries.

      • David Ashton

        Five in the crew: one gay, one black, one Muslim, one transgender and one vertically challenged….

        • Speedy Steve

          a short, black lesbian would kill three birds with one stone.

          • David Ashton

            “Or hopefully with a passing meteor,” said an unkind companion who saw your post.

          • Kenner

            Or one glance.

      • IstvanIN

        What would life expectancy be on Mars at this point in technology, 2-3 months?

        • B.A_2014

          Just under two years I hear.

        • evilsandmich

          As MCS points out, cosmic radiation will cook someone away from earth for that long. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I think they said that astronauts would take in a lifetime worth of catscan radiation just on the trip to Mars.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        I’ve always seen Space exploration as a man’s domain anyways (specifically a white man’s). As a woman, I would honestly be terrified to go into Space.

  • IstvanIN

    This shows me that the Chinese are willing to look at themselves critically, take stock of their cultural shortcomings and attempt to better themselves. Very admirable. Now if other races would do the same the world would eventually become a better place.

    • There is simply no way blacks and Arabs are going to spend their own money doing this.

    • Georgia Boy

      That’s a charitable way of looking at it. More like, The business press (and other press too) are just obsessed with the rich few and write too much about them. It’s like one long Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous sometimes. Check out this half million dollar supercar! Twenty million dollar NYC condo owned by a famous actor! They pursue and write trend pieces about every silly new quirk of the rich, some luxury spa for their dogs or where they spent a year’s salary for us average chumps
      sending their kid to camp. They take vapidities and treat them seriously, sometimes I feel like the only one rolling my eyes. Now that there are rich Chinese, the Western press are just doing the same thing they always do, celebrating the superficiality of the one percent wherever they are.

      • Speedy Steve

        Or when the camera follows a rapper to his Greenwich mansion with Bentley, swimming pool, and a wine cellar fully stocked with 24 oz cans of malt liquor.

      • Rhialto

        This is the situation. The entertainment/news media have no reason to focus on the millions of lower middle income (just above poverty) Whites struggling to exist in today’s America.

        • adplatt126

          Focus? They’d prefer them dead.

      • Korean guy

        I knew the price of accommodation around NYC is sky high but I did not expect a condo to cost $20M whew

        Only the highest paid, “franchise level” athletes of pro sport teams in New York might be able to afford one. ( Mets, Yankees, Knicks, Rangers, Islanders)

    • Bossman

      For the Chinese that is just a means to an end and that end is to gain influence abroad and perhaps to eventually conquer North America.

      • 李冠毅

        Funny. I’m northeast Asian myself, and so far I’m perfectly content living in my country, and have no interest in invading the West. Maybe a minority of Asian supremacists would like to enslave the West, but most of my fellow Asians are fine with Westerners.

        • evilsandmich

          That’s my impression generally as well. With the exception of WW2 Japan, northeast Asians don’t have a real interest in international imperialism, just looking at the western experience should be enough to dissuade someone. The whole “China taking over Africa”, etc. is more about internal subprime construction loans than imperialism.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Also, the Chinese name for their own country is Middle Kingdom, which kind of implies that they don’t give a damn about anyone else. Also, they constructed a godamn billion mile wall just to contain itself from outside threats.

            On top of this, a fleet admiral(Zheng He) in 1400’s(before columbus) had a fleet of 2000 ships, all superioer to Columbus’s ships, sailed the western seas 7 times. Then the next Emperor burned the ENTIRE fleet to the ground, basically saying “fu*k everyone else”

        • Bossman

          I hope you’re right about that. Nothing would depress me more than to see everyother face in North America to be East Asian. Asians are truly inscrutable people; you never know what they’re thinking or planing.

          • They also don’t often know what we are thinking. When I scrounged some natural gas pipe, my wife wanted to know what I wanted if for. “Not sure yet,” was my reply. I have since used that up to make a pair of tridents (tetradents, really) for fishing. I cut the 18 inches in half on the bandsaw, to a pair of nine-inch lengths. I left three inches in each as a socket for the shafts, but machined out four grooves in the other six inches, leaving four long, barbed tines, which I bent outward slightly and then recurved them into four-fingered claws and heat-treated them. I polished the steel and then hot-blued it. They ring like bells when tapped with a hammer.

            I’m married to a Japanese, and she understands me only a little. White women didn’t understand me very well, either. I’m just happy someone loves me; I had to wait a very long time. Her pet nickname for me is “General Scrap Iron”. That’s fair, as I usually start with garbage, but I want the finished product to be perfect. “Good enough” is never, ever good enough for me. The way I see it, garbage can often be repurposed.

            She’s from a famous navy family, so Sayaka married well beneath her.

        • Rhialto

          All normal social primates are opportunistic, and Asians are normal social primates. If the opportunity arises to conquer the Western world, they would probably take advantage of such a great opportunity.

          • 李冠毅

            You know, I have it with fierce competition. Please check out my comment above.

        • listenupbub

          I think you are generally right. However, Asian investors, just like white investors, will want to build financial empires. This could be economically dangerous, though not motivated by hatred.

          And it is extremely hard to tell what the Chinese government will do in a SHTF scenario where America’s fiat currency crashes, and our currency is so devalued that we cannot possibly make good on debt (in bonds) they hold. The trade debt takes care of us now, but it won’t matter in the SHTF scenario… Perhaps China will just assume ownership of us?

          This is more reason the USA needs to deal with the unproductive demographics in our country, and the whites in America need to get their act together again.

        • propagandaoftruth

          I think you guys are better at maintaining high levels of stable civilization despite upheavals. We northwestern Euros tend to be restless (troublemakers).

          Occident and Orient – very yin-yang. In many ways.

    • Ultimate187

      I don’t think the Chinese (and Asians in general) really need lessons in etiquette. Most of the ones I’ve met are actually pretty upstanding people.

  • MekongDelta69

    “Hebbert charges 20,000 yuan ($3,243) per group of 10 for an afternoon session.”

    Hell – Any decent American who grew up when I did can teach you all that for a HELLUVA lot less than $324.30 per person, per afternoon!

    • Speedy Steve

      But they wouldn’t be willing to pay YT that much.

      • evilsandmich

        YT is too busy raking them over the coals for rack rate college (and high school!) rates. I have no strong opinion on that as we’re not making them spend that money; but a fool and their money…

        • Speedy Steve

          Yes indeed. A fool and his money are soon partying.

        • Speedy Steve

          Yup, a fool and his money are soon partying.

  • Chip Carver

    Meanwhile the powers-that-be in the West are doing their best to make Whites act like black and brown third world savages.

    • The Chinese are working to improve themselves, to overtake us, and meanwhile we are dumbing ourselves down and elevating our enemies.

  • Nancy

    That certainly explains a couple of line-cutting Asians I’ve had to deal with in the past few months. It looked to me as though they were chattering away in Mandarin (with their entire extended family in tow) and pretended not to see where the end of the line was. Because I have zero patience for the shenanigans of minorities anyway (living in Atlanta will do that), I very vocally directed them to the back of the line, since the cashiers lack the nerve to do it themselves. I consider it my civic duty.

    Now I see that the Chinese, at least, don’t seem to have a concept of waiting in line, is that it? What do they do in China, then? Bum-rush the supermarket check-out lines?

    • Carney3

      Where’s the instinct for order that they supposedly have been heavily selected for over millennia of crowded conditions? How could society function if every line became the equivalent of a Haitian scrum?

    • listenupbub

      That is exactly what they do. Next time you see a TV news story about China, look at what the people in the streets are doing.

    • Alexandra1973

      In elementary school there was what we called “Chinese cuts.” Now I know where it originated from!

  • Luca

    They have intelligence but lack creativity. They have been copying the West for over a century and now they want to copy our etiquette and mannerisms. It wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t also planning to overtake us.

    • They have bypassed the costly R&D phase.

      • cherrie greenbaum123

        Wish I could have given you a million up votes.

    • NoMosqueHere

      America has a particular history, and I don’t see how asians fit into it. Asians are the least objectionable of the recent immigrant invaders; they have good manners and don’t create havoc in public places. But I still cannot see them as real americans.

    • CourtneyfromAlabama

      Not only that, but a lot of their ancient inventions have been greatly exaggerated. I encourage everyone on here to go look at the articles on Wikipedia that list Chinese inventions and discoveries. They are ridiculous and they make me so mad that I can’t sit and read them all the way through.

      • Well, ancient Chinese armies did have crossbows, but those didn’t have steel prods (bows) with several tons of draw-weight the way Medieval European military versions did, which required a windlass and tackle to cock and would shoot completely through any armor a man could wear. What I am getting at is that with some of these superficially similar rival inventions, one is comparing apples with oranges.

        • Laura Dilworth

          They invented gunpowder?

          • Yes, but it took a white maniac to invent a gun.

          • Laura Dilworth

            Ah

          • Mark Zhao

            Not so true, Song dynasty has used hand cannon with gunpower. Alittle bit like gun but not very.
            Still, Chinese has invented use for GundPowder

          • 李冠毅

            The earliest known example of a firearm was developed in 13th century China, where it was known as the “hand cannon”. The was followed by the development of safer firing mechanisms, eventually culminating in the invention of the matchlock musket. China became the leader of firearm technology in this era, until Western engineers began to outpace them sometime in the 15th-16th century.

          • Laura Dilworth

            Colt?

      • 李冠毅

        You remind me of myself in the past. I also used to get mad every time I hear about how great Westerners are, and how we are nothing but bland copycats who have never invented anything. Now I know, both East and West have exaggerated their past greatness at some point.

    • Mark Zhao

      Sorry, but for not modern country, always easier to copy. I hopes this changing in the future too. If we invent, you can steal back technologies, I don’t think we will angry at all.

      • listenupbub

        hahaha it is funny because it is true

  • LHathaway

    So, while the UK is being taken away from Whites, the media subjects us to more of this ‘white supremacy’ training. Don’t fret, there’s nothing to worry about. We’re just so White.

  • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

    Another reason, the Chinese need to adopt western manners:

    “Pregnant Chinese moms are flocking stateside to give birth, lured by rules that grant American citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil. A booming birth tourism industry has sprouted from coast to coast to cater to growing interest — in 2012, about 10,000 Chinese women gave birth in the U.S., more than double the 4,200 in 2008…” (CNN, 2-8-15)

    The process of Asianizing the U. S. will be much easier if it’s done with good manners.

  • Sick of it

    The Chinese did have manners before Communism. It’s a shame that trashy peasant Mao took over.

    • Speedy Steve

      The same can be said for the English, who also had good manners until they thought it amusing to emulate the savagery of negroes.

    • I suspect that the educated, moneyed classes ran away to Taiwan.

  • pcmustgo

    God knows, they need it! Especially the frigid and/or robot acting ones!

  • pcmustgo

    It’s very simple, Asians… smile a little bit… put some emotion into your speech and facial expressions.

    • Kenner

      Fake it till you make it.

  • listenupbub

    All the Chinese I met in college (and I knew a lot) openly talked about how loud and rude Chinese people are, and how nasty the country is. They also talked about how underhanded and dishonest Chinese people are, almost unanimously. Most of my Chinese friends cheated on tests.

    Don’t be fooled by this article: these people do not usually love or respect western manners. Read closely— “Most of my clients had an embarrassing moment, overseas or during a
    business dinner. They come here because they want to make thing easier
    for themselves”

    The Chinese are just trying to be better at business, so they can make more money and live the life of the rich and famous. They are, indeed, full of hope, and are intoxicated by the idea of success. They don’t give a darn about actual manners.

    Our country has to be careful about letting the Chinese buy up too much American property. We do not want these people to inherit the world. They are empty people, with empty lives, whose only value is selfishness, whose only recreation is the vain display of status.

    However, they are still better than the dindus.

    • propagandaoftruth

      Asian sluts and tentacle porn get thumbs up from me every Friday night.

      Japanese are the crème de la crème. Spoiled and decadent as hell.

    • propagandaoftruth

      I had a really funny but obviously over the top comment about your avatar that got obliterated by the mod – I hope he enjoyed it – but you will likely get as almost as many upvotes for that avatar as if you pretended to be a pretty young Chinese maiden.

      I agree that China is a competitor and should be treated as such.

      • listenupbub

        hahaha

        We do not want to be like China. They are one-dimensional. Their kids (in the cities) are in school from 7:00 am to 10:00 pm. In the country, they are dirt poor. They have racial solidarity and a sense of hope which makes them happy-ish, but it is still a sad way to live. Remember that video of the stressed Chinese kid jumping out of a window to his death in the middle of class?

        The best way to create a stable, cooperative culture, with tight communities we can enjoy is to have ethnic solidarity.

        We are importing all the smartest Chinese and Indians, and there are billions of these people to cherry pick from. We are creating MORE race-based castes- Asians on top, blacks and mexicans on bottom, whites spread throughout, mostly in middle.

        This is really like a dystopian scenario, where your class is stamped on your body, except we don’t need stamps. We just look at the skin tone.

        • 李冠毅

          Forgive me for correcting you, but that “cream of the crop” Chinese immigrant is no longer true. While its true that up until the 1990s, the brightest Chinese tend to emigrate to the West for better opportunities, now China has its own quality universities (e.g. Peking University). Problems is, China is still a poor country, so these good universities are few, and only the top 1% or so of Chinese society gets to study/work in these universities, while the rest either have to attend a substandard Chinese university (where an engineering graduate only knows as much as an auto mechanic) or, if the can afford it, to study abroad (usually in the West). In fact, many of the cream of the crop Chinese who emigrate back then are now going back to China.

          In short, most Chinese immigrants the West has been receiving for the past 20 years are those who are stuck in a rut, and not the top end of Chinese society.

    • Sick of it

      Now now, one of the Chinese guys I knew in CS was very honest about his greedy nature. The guy seriously only thought about money.

    • SiniticMan

      C’mon listen to yourself now seriously. A people comprised of selfish individuals would never have formalized and developed an elite capable or responsible enough to develop, manage, and protect a civilization for so long.

      Objectively speaking on the issue of vanity. I think without a doubt the West is composed of people whom are more vain in general then the people of the Far East. You can argue whether it was the availability of resources and materials that made the West more vain in general or vice versa but the question is pretty much uncontroversial.

      The French in the early days described the Normans as vain and boastful. Whenever I visit or meet someone from Los Angeles, CA or from that general area. I think of what the French said about the Normans. Then I think about English history and then American history, and then I realize that orientals who grew up in the far east might perceive me as quite vain compared to themselves although I am full blood oriental myself.

      The whole idea about a White edge when it comes to creativity might just be interconnected or interrelated with materials itself. It is only with the availability of resources and materials at the dawn of civilization, and the right alphabet system, and the continual outward and civil pursuance of more resources and materials that a civilization could produce a people who could later be viewed as having a seemingly perceived edge in creativity. Developing this seemingly god given edge in creativity would of course take some time over many many centuries. With the basic material foundations that was available to the initial formalizing civilization at the time, All that was needed was time, alphabet, law, and words to develop such a materialistically successful civilization known as Western Civilization. But then again in my opinion, the civilization that developed in the Levant and Egypt could be viewed as somewhat of a proto-Western civilization. At the same time, a civilization that is centered around materials and resources could very rapidly decay because of an over abundance of not only materials, but also an abundance of vain people who will eventually self destruct. And civilizational self-destruction in my opinion, is just a point in a cycle that all civilizations have to deal with and the quickness of that cycle depends on the very nature of the civilization itself.

    • evilsandmich

      Civic trust is nearly non-existent in China.

  • NYB

    Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The Borg.

    “We will assimilate your culture into ours, to serve us. Resistance is futile.”

  • Speedy Steve

    .. said Sara-Jane Ho

    Miss Ho might want to consider a god old-fashioned occidental name change.

    I wonder if her school teaches them not to squat on the toilet seat, or not to pick their nose and then shake hands with people.

  • E_Pluribus_Pluribus

    I’ve seen the Jensen quote. It’s similar to IQ researcher Richard Lynn’s fallback hope that, as the Western white nations pursue self-destructive path to oblivion with dysgenic fertility and dysgenic immigration, the one bright spot is that civilization will survive in Asian peoples. But that is cold comfort to anyone who recognized the contributions whites have made to civilization, could continue to make were is pathological elites dispossessed.

    • CourtneyfromAlabama

      I agree fully. I was very much disturbed at a conference when I heard Lynn say something along those lines. We really give the East Asians far more credit than they have earned. I am still trying to figure out where this popular idea has come from that they were “more advanced than us until 1800 AD”. So I guess the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Holy Roman Empire, Europe of the High Middle Ages, Europe of the Renaissance, The Age of Discovery, The Scientific Revolution etc…. all never existed.

      • listenupbub

        There is this obsession with the four great inventions of China.

        They came a slight bit ahead of white countries, and arguably did not even affect the population capacity.

        When you forget this, Asia is obviously inferior. White people need to have a little more confidence and pride in our abilities. Studies have shown we have big confidence issues. In my competitive college, driven whites dominated driven Asians academically. There are just so few driven whites anymore. We have fallen, and we can’t get up—- unless we purge ourselves of white guilt.

      • Mark Zhao

        .

      • Marcus Cafaro

        Hello Courtney,

        As a professional historian, I would say you have to give credit where credit is due. Yes, we had extraodinary civilization that came up with concepts such as democracy, etc, by the Chinese Dynasties in particular were really incomparable in all things such as technologies, warfare, economy, science, compared to ALL other areas of the worlds, including Europe, Middle East, India, etc.

        Let me give you a simple example of how much stronger they were,

        During the 1200’s, a certain someone named Genghis Khan was born(Mongolia, which is considered East Asian). Genghis Khan took generations to conquer the Jin Dynasty. Before he was even able to conquer the Jin dynasty, he swept through the Middle East like a knife through butter, literally.
        Then, his commander Subotai asked for a scout of 20,000 mongolian reconnaisance scouts to look at Europe. With that 20,000, he was easily able to defeat 100,000+ east european(russian, hungarian) armies. The mongols came back about 2 years later with a measly force of about 200,000, and absolutely crushed the Russian and Hungarian Europeans, where many of them were even embarrassed to write what happened down in the history books.

        May I remind you that the Hungarian army at this time was one of the strongest armies of the Holy Roman Empire. Right before General Subotai was about to take over Europe, the Great Khan died(thank God, or there wouldn’t be a Europe today.

        Meanwhile, the mongols have yet to defeat all of China. In fact, it took generations later, which Ghengis Khans grandson Kublai Khan to finally take over the Southern Chinese Song dynasty after literally GENERATIONS of stalemate, and this was only achieved after the khans divided China and convinced different Chinese factions to fight against each other. Historians like myself think that if China united against the mongol threat, the mongols would have never stood a chance.

        REMEMBER, the Mongols swept through the Middle East and Europe with ease, the only reason why they did not take over the ENTIRE western europe was because the Khan at that time died RIGHT before the army was going to march upon the Holy Roman Empire.

        So, in summary, it took the Mongols 80+ years to conquer China, but it took them a measly few years to conquer the Middle East and Eastern Europe.(and Western Europe got lucky, fortunately for us)

        So this point of comparison really shows the disparity between Chinese and Western ancient civilizations. The arguably only point in history where our Western Ancient Civilization was equal or better than Chinese was during the peak of the Ancient Roman Empire vs the Han dynasty. All else is really no debate with ancient historians.(By the way, this is from early late 19th century, early 20th century sources, hardly considered liberal)

      • Marcus Cafaro

        Hello Courtney,

        As a professional historian, I would say you have to give credit where credit is due. Yes, we had extraodinary civilization that came up with concepts such as democracy, etc, but the Ancient Chinese Dynasties in particular were really incomparable in all things such as technologies, warfare, economy, science, compared to ALL other areas of the worlds, including Europe, Middle East, India, etc. I can certainly be argued that Ancient European civilization was number 2(although some Islamic scholars may disagree)

        Let me give you a simple example of how much stronger they were,

        During the 1200’s, a certain someone named Genghis Khan was born(Mongolia). Genghis Khan took generations to conquer the Jin Dynasty. Before he was even able to conquer the Jin dynasty, he swept through the Middle East like a knife through butter, literally.
        Then, his commander Subotai asked for a scout of 20,000 mongolian reconnaisance scouts to look at Europe. With that 20,000, he was easily able to defeat 100,000+ east european(russian, hungarian) armies. The mongols came back about 2 years later with a measly force of about 200,000, and absolutely crushed the Russian and Hungarian Europeans, where many of them were even embarrassed to write what happened down in the history books.

        May I remind you that the Hungarian army at this time was one of the strongest armies of the Holy Roman Empire. Right before General Subotai was about to take over Europe, the Great Khan died(thank God, or there wouldn’t be a Europe today.

        Meanwhile, the mongols have yet to defeat all of China. In fact, it took generations later, which Ghengis Khans grandson Kublai Khan to finally take over the Southern Chinese Song dynasty after literally GENERATIONS of stalemate, and this was only achieved after the khans divided China and convinced different Chinese factions to fight against each other. Historians like myself think that if China united against the mongol threat, the mongols would have never stood a chance.

        REMEMBER, the Mongols swept through the Middle East and Europe with ease, the only reason why they did not take over the ENTIRE western europe was because the Khan at that time died RIGHT before the army was going to march upon the Holy Roman Empire.

        So, in summary, it took the Mongols 80+ years to conquer China, but it took them a measly few years to conquer the Middle East and Eastern Europe.(and Western Europe got lucky, fortunately for us)

        So this point of comparison really shows the disparity between Chinese and Western ancient civilizations. The arguably only point in history where our Western Ancient Civilization was equal or better than Chinese was during the peak of the Ancient Roman Empire vs the Han dynasty. All else is really no debate with ancient historians.(By the way, this is from early late 19th century, early 20th century sources, hardly considered liberal)

        If we underestimate the Asians, then we will truly see our own downfall, and if we try to claim things that actually were not the reality, we become no better than the SubSaharan Africans claiming Egypt, or Middle Easterners claiming the Byzantine Empire. The reality is that Ancient Chinese civilization was truly magnificent in every sense of the word, superior to all other civilizations(save for the Ancient Roman Empire) Although starting from the 1600’s, they were no match for Western Civilization due to things such as the Enlightenment, Industrial Revolution, ETC.

        As a side note, many historians do not think Europe would have reached the enlightenment before China had the Mongol Hoardes not brought over technologies from China during their sack of Eastern Europe. In addition, after the Mongols basically cut China’s population down to a fraction of their former selves and destroyed Ancient Middle Eastern Civilization, Europe then got the lead. So we have a lot to thank to the Mongols.(who are by the way also East Asians) By the way, around 200 yeras before Columbus sailed the world, the Chinese had a superior fleet, in which the next Emperor burned to the ground because he basically said screw everything except China. As we know, Westerners took the opposite approach
        Just search up Zhang He Ship on google images, and it will show you his ship vs Christopher Columbus.(the first image compares his ship to Chrisopher Columbus’)

        • listenupbub

          -Any evidence that Christopher Columbus’ ship supposed to be massive? There are plenty of reasons to favor smaller ships.
          -how were mongol technologies responsible for the Enlightenment. Sounds like a long stretch of many chains of causation.
          -you claim that Europe invented the scientific method, while claiming that China was superior in science………………

          There is no science without the scientific method. More importantly, there is little traction in science without the concept of the mathematical function. There was only basic observation before math and the scientific method. Basic observation =/= science.

          -gradations of economic difference between civilizations in the agricultural era are insignificant in seriously changing the general human experience. Coming out of the agricultural age and into the industrial era, and then to the modern era, is ***very*** significant. There is little evidence that this would have happened anywhere in the world in a long time if it wasn’t for the weird and crazy obsession with philosophy that Europeans had.

          In short, Asian civilization was awesome and it is obvious, but whites do not need to lose pride in the fact that whites brought the world out of the agricultural era, which has massively changed the human experience.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            “-Any evidence that Christopher Columbus’ ship supposed to be massive? There are plenty of reasons to favor smaller ships.”

            Christopher Columbus’ ship was considered the forefront of engineering at the time in Europe. And yes, large ships are much safer(among many other advantages.)

            “-how were mongol technologies responsible for the Enlightenment. Sounds like a long stretch of many chains of causation.”

            They dragged along Chinese technologies such as GunPower, etc, a whole list of things that Europe did not have at the time. It is a long chain of causation, but it was just to point out that not everything is as simple as it seems. And I never said I necessarily agreed with this.

            “-you claim that Europe invented the scientific method, while claiming that China was superior in science………………”

            You don’t need to have the scientific method to perform science. The scientific method is just a formulaic way to better structure science on. The scientific method was actually created by Middle Easterners, We Europeans just perfected it and took it to another level. Yes, they were superior in Science pre-1600

        • CourtneyfromAlabama

          You are a self hating liberal. You already lost credibility in your opening sentences by saying China was better in ALL things compared to EVERYONE else. That is a red flag right there that your “evidence” is full of fallacies when you resort to absolutes. But I see you are flattering our Chinese friend here as I see that he has given you an up vote. The lengths that white people go to to degrade themselves and flatter others disgusts me.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Wow you are really an angry person.

            You claim to be disgusted by Arabs claiming Greek culture etc, but you don’t realize that you lose all credibility when you do the same with other cultures, i.e. ancient Chinese culture?

            Its a bit hypocritical don’t you think? And by the way, do you think any self-hating liberal would even listen to race realists?(and agree)

            I don’t give a fck about the slanty-eyed Chinese, but it is embarrasing to see another White person try to take credibility for something that we CLEARLY did not do. You do that exact thing when you try to pretend that some of their ancient inventions were actually our own. It makes us look bad and needy. If there were a Chinese person claiming to have come up with the concept of democracy or the scientific method, other Chinese would probably think that was embarrasing too, no?. Did you have some really bad experience with a Chinese or something that you can’t look at things objectively?

            As for the Chinese person upvoting me, I have no control over their actions.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            I don’t understand where in the world you came to these conclusions after reading my posts. I made it clear multiple times that the Chinese invented some important things and that they had their own great civilization. And not once did I ever specify any inventions of China’s that should be counted as ours, whereas on the other hand, you and the Chinese poster have made multiple exaggerations and assertions about specific inventions when listing what China did that we didn’t do. The two of you have also used wording that clearly indicates you are trying to say China did a disproportionate amount of just about everything. Go back and read what you said in your opening paragraphs in your last post. You weren’t trying to claim in response to me that “China did in fact do some important things” (which wasn’t necessary on your part anyways since I made myself clear the first time). No, instead you were jumping in with bold assertions about how “China was better than us and everyone else in the world in this field and that field” etc.. etc…. Again, you lost me.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Ok, fine, take out the subjective parts like where I mention how China is Greater than Europe in Ancient time. Everything else I wrote on the Mongol invasions, were 100% historically accurate.

            If you want a point of comparison, that was probably the only time in ancient history where you can get a point of perspective on the difference between the 2 civilizations, as the Mongols fought both the European civilization and Chinese civilization.

            I’ll give you that when I say China was superior to all, that is not exactly a subjective measure, but I when I say superior I am taking the ancient timeline as a whole. Sure there were vast periods of time when European civlization was better, such as Ancient Rome, but taken as a WHOLE, you cannot really dispute that China was ahead of Europe. And because Europe was number 2, by definition that would make Ancient China superior on AVERAGE to all others in ancient times.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            There are a lot of theories you are suggesting that have been alluded to by one or two authors but that have most certainly not been accepted by most historians as you like to suggest. Claiming the Mongols were responsible for the Enlightenment is one of the biggest examples of stating a theory as a fact that I have ever heard. What do you mean when you say that? Because they brought us gunpowder they are therefore more responsible for the Enlightenment than Europeans themselves? Why didn’t they create the Enlightenment then?

            I would also like to challenge you on your statement about ancient times. China started its civilization later than the Eastern Mediterranean. If we are examining ideas and inventions, how can you say China was any better than Greece? If we proceed after the Fall of Rome, I would say Europe started offering some good competition once again around 1200 AD. Where are you coming up with these timelines? I have never seen a historian claim China was more advanced during any of the periods before the Fall of Rome. As far as when we caught up after the Fall of Rome, that is pretty debatable as well.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Ok, I specifically stated that I did not agree with the view that the Mongols were responsible for the enlightenment, I was just pointing this out to show how history is not as clean as we would like.

            On your point about who started the civilizations earlier, this seems to be a clear part where your putting on blinders. The Chinese arguably were the earliest race to form early, visible civilization structures. Maybe the Assyrians were slightly ahead, but Chinese started way earlier than the Europeans. But anyway, this point is useless to discuss because it happened so long ago that historical texts may be so contradictory that any one side could find arguments about who started civilization first.

            Also on your point in 1200 AD of the Europeans starting to catch up, this is just plain false. During 1200 AD, we were barely keeping the marauding Muslims on our doorsteps(think crusades) On top of this, Muslim chroniclers themselves wrote about how magnificent and great the Eastern civilizations were. On TOP of this, it took the Mongols almost 100+ years to conquer China(despite the fact that China is right on Mongolia’s doorstep) It took the Mongols about 3 years to destroy all of the Middle East(think Seige of Baghdad, Khwarizmian Empire) They destroyed Eastern Europe with a MERE SCOUTING FOR of 20000. Then when they returned, they destroyed the hungarian and russian armies completely.(Might I remind you that the Hungarian Army was one of the strongest factions of the Holy Roman Empire at that time) Right when the Mongols were about to march on Western Europe(holy roman empire), Ogedai Khan died, and they had to withdraw their force immediately(THANK GOD) Nowhere in the history, be it from Muslim, or EVEN EUROPEAN chronicles, does it even remotely suggest that Europe was even close to China in civilizational sophisticaiton, wealth, technology, etc.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            One of the problems I see with your thinking is that you already made up in your mind what the answer is, and the answer is that Ancient European Civilization Superior.

            Therefore, everytime you come up with evidence on the contrary, you will say that the historian is just a libertian whatever.

            Everytime you see evidence that European Civlization was superior, you say “AHAH! See I told you!”

            You create a selection bias where you can never be wrong.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            One of the problems that I on the other hand, see with your line of argument is that you have, more than once, put words in my mouth. I agree that China was superior at specific times. But they weren’t superior to the Mediterranean until the Fall of Rome. And then after that I never ever said we were superior until we get to 1200 AD where it starts getting debatable. You seem to only want to look at wars with the Mongols to support your statement that the East was superior until 1600. There was another comment you wrote that I can’t find on here now where you were claiming that the Chinese hands down were the first civilization. Are you serious? Most historians give that credit to the Near East and China was no earlier than the Minoans. The activity going on in that area (Eastern Mediterranean) was clearly more advanced, invention wise, through the Greek period. It wasn’t until Roman times that China became comparable but still not superior. But yes, I admit that during the Dark Ages they shot ahead.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Ok, there are a ton of historical records you can find that suggest China was one of the first Ancient Civilizations, but how about this, beyond <500BC, things are so murky with historical texts(so long ago) that you can't make a conclusive argument one way or the other.

            Is this a timeline then that we can agree on.
            <500BC-Debatable, historical records are shabby on both sides( I still think China is, but I can understand if you disagree)
            500BC-100BC- I would say almost equal, Chinese still a little ahead(remember this was the period where Ancient Rome just defeats Carthage and starts growing in power)
            100BC-400AD-Rome is Ahead, some people still think Han Chinese, but I think Rome is solidly ahead here
            400AD-500AD-Rome Declines, China is Ahead
            500AD-1300AD- China is squarely ahead, no debate
            1300AD-1600AD- VERY highly debatable, you can pick and choose
            1600AD-Now Europe Is squarely Ahead
            Now-Future- Who knows

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            Wow, how can you keep accusing me of allowing my biasness for Europe to color my rationality when you are doing the same with China? How was China more advanced than Greece? What are we comparing? Are we only comparing what you want to compare? Also, during the 1300 to 1600 period you are accusing Europe of barely coming out of the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages ended in 1000 AD. There was a great deal going on in Europe by 1200 AD. What criteria are you going by to claim China was superior to Europe during our Renaissance? You continue to make bold assertions that most history books don’t support.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            The renaissance did not just appear our of thin air, it took time to fully take form, it started in the 14th century, which does not mean Europe was stronger than China during this time, or even the 15th century for that matter. Maybe 1500-1600 is a little bit more iffy, but certainly not during the beginning of this period.

            Do you quick search of Ming China. While the renaissance was certainly a glorious era filled with scientific discovery, remember it time for Europe to really ramp up. By the 1600’s, you can say with certainty that Europe was dominant over China.

            There really is no point in arguing about unless you study up Ming China and have a point of comparison, instead of thinking of China as this vague civilization. There is too much to analyze here. Do a quick wiki search of Ming China(unless you think that Wikipedia has been overtaken by “liberal historians”)

            We could do a quantitative analysis on the output of Ming China vs Renaissance Europe.

            Also might I add, we are doing a comparison of the WHOLE of Europe to just one East Asian Country. It would certainly be no match if we did singular European Countries, say Renaissance Italy vs Ming China.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            Compare Italy to China to favor China? What? More like compare Italy to one province in China to make things fair considering China’s large population. I also don’t get why you think including Korea and Japan and Mongolia helps your argument. All three were basically puppets of Ancient China and then two of them were later puppets of Western culture. Compare that to Europe where you have all these tiny countries like England and France that have Greece as a civilizational mother but yet still managed to create their own groundbreaking revolutionary cultures and lists of achievements. Now that I think about it, let’s go ahead and compare China to Italy historically. Italy wins when looking at actual achievements that matter.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Well considering most technological/scientific achievements have been made in the last 500 years due to the exponential effect of technological growth, and considering that Italy was the main player during the renaissance, I could sign off on that.

            Though the thing you say about population is a bit unfair considering that population back in the day was a sign of economic/civilizational success. Not so much in modern times.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Also, on the point of early civilizations, look up Xia Dynasty. Yes, the Minoans may have started a little early, but I do not think there was really an equivilant in Europe. MAYBE on the banks of the Mediterranean, but you also run into the problem of what exactly you define as “civilizations.”

            If you define civilization of something just slightly ahead of tribals, East Asians are on average at a disadvantage because most genetic evidence suggests that they evolved after Caucasians.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            So if you include modern times, its roughly 900 years of European Domination vs 900 Years Chinese Domination.

            If your ONLY looking at Ancient Civilization, it becomes 500 years of European vs 900 years Chinese. Thats where I come up with the conclusion that Chinese were superior MOST(key word MOST) of the time

            And the power is shifting back to China if we don’t do something quick, and stop our kids from acting like 3rd world blacks/browns. If we include Korea and Japan as part of the “Chinese” sphere, I would argue that we are already starting to see a decline in our Civilization vs theirs.

            Of course, that is the problem, our “decline” is only relative to the Chinese, without the pesky East Asians, Europeans would have nothing to worry about, except black/brown third world problems.(which is really nothing, they are not very intelligent that we can’ deal with them in the long run) But the East Asians on the other hand actually represent a real threat in that they have the brainpower to Challenge us.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            900 vs. 900? That is funny, because in your above post you were clearly saying China wins 90% vs our 10% (in regards to the amount of time they were more civilized). I also still don’t agree with your criteria for ancient times by any means. I don’t know where you are getting this idea from that China outperformed Mediterranean Europe during most of ancient history. Even that sinophile author, Ian Morris, claims that China didn’t catch up until late Roman times.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            First of all, do you actually know what the Mediterranean Empire’s landmass consisted of? It consisted of the whole top part of North Africa, Large Swaths of the Middle East, and a large portion of Western Europe. In fact, the power base of the Mediterranean Empire did not shift to concretely to Europe until after Rome defeated Carthage.(which the majority consisted of North Africa) So when you say Mediterranean Empire, which race are you exactly claiming it for?

            The Mediterranean Empire AS A WHOLE was comparable to the warring states of China, Mediterranean Europe was certainly not.

            When most scholars are comparing Civilizations, they compare the entire Mediterranean Civilization to China, and still many are either uncertain, or sway slightly towards China. Europe was just a fraction of the Mediterranean Empire.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            At the time of the Minoans (in Crete which is part of Europe), there was hardly anything anymore impressive going on in China. Then Greece comes along, which creates a great civilization within Europe as well as the Middle East (again, how was China more impressive at that time? ). I know what I am talking about in regards to geography. In regards to scientific ideas that led the modern world, clearly Greece played a bigger role than China.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Yes, Greece played a larger role going down in time(i.e. passing on democratic principles to Rome, even Modern Times, etc) but the actual influene of Greece at the time did not match up to Ancient China. Sorry but that is a fact, Greece in consisted of a few tiny POWERFUL nation states, but still tiny and incomparable to China nonetheless. Might I remind you that the Persians are sometimes considered to be greater during this time.

            But I think you are conflating the influence Greece played in Ancient times with their influence throughout history.

            Also, as much as I enjoyed the movie 300, Sparta will still only a small nation state within Greece.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I could potentially concede that the earliest civilizations may have been better on the European Side, being that not much is known about the Xia Dynasty, which was supposed to be around this time period.

            Also, on the issue of Ancient Rome vs Han China, I will admit to having a Roman bias just because I was born in Italty.

            With that being said, there is a whole lot of evidence pointing to the contrary.

            In terms of manpower/warfare

            Both armies are professional but China reigns supreme when it comes to manpower. In the battle of ChangPing fought between Qin and Zhao, during the Warring States Era. Both sides were able to field over 300,000 soldiers. During the Han dynasty, the population of China tripled so that proves Han China was able to field a much bigger army than Rome. Both Rome and Han China used heavy infantry extensively with smaller numbers of support troops, auxiliaries and skirmishers. Chinese crossbow would shower the enemy before moving the infantries. The Romans would hurl their pila before an engagement. Chinese cavalry would flank or surround enemies. The Romans would move in checker formations to further complicate matters.

            In terms of technology,

            Ancient Rome made the wheel, odometer
            Han Dynasty created ink, paper, gun powder, crossbow, compass, seismometer, mathematics.

            Economics

            Rome was impressive, the Mediterranean was under Roman control. Big bonus to Roman wealth but what about China? Excluding Korea, there are no one for China to actually trade with. Rome generated wealth from conquered lands while Han China generates wealth from within the country but what is for sure is that China, for 18 centuries have always had the largest economy. China was metallurgically and technologically superior to the Romans, except the Romans had toilets and sewer systems, the Chinese had to use wooden buckets.

            There is an awful lot that can tilt the argument in the Han Dynasty’s favor versus Rome, but I will still say that Rome because I admire Great men like Caesar, and I am Italian(birthplace of Rome) And I greatly admire Rome’s fortitude during the Punic Wars.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            With every time period you have somehow found a way to concede that “China was actually better”, and now here you are even doing that with the Roman period. I on the other hand admit that there was clearly a time, during the Dark Ages that China was more advanced and that right before the Dark Ages and right after, we were both similar. Who is being more biased? I love your very selective lists of inventions…..Rome only gets two? China invented mathematics? Lots of civilizations did.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I’ll admit I’m not actually a historian by profession, I’m a trader Deutsche bank,(ancient historian sounds cooler and everyone hates on financial types these days) You probably know more about ancient history than I do, I just study it as a hobby, although I am actually Italian which is why I am obsessed with Ancient Rome. In fact I just finished reading a 600 page biography on Julius Caesar, really good.

            But trust me when I tell you this, the Chinese(american born) trader, Ibankers, and quants are really really fkin smart that it is a bit scary sometimes. Half of those fkers on my trading floor scored 2400 on their SATs.

            So what I am really trying to do is put more fear into my fellow whites to step it up and start studying more. BTW Johnny Marcus Cafaro is not my real name, if my company found out I was posting on a “racist” site I would probably get fired immediately. LOL.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            By the way, do you know how ineffective it is to choose a single historian as a sole source? You have to look at the aggregate whole.

            Also, you have to take into account that most Western historians will have a slight European Bias, and likewise the same with Chinese historians.

            Of course in your mind all the historians that don’t go along with your world view of Europe dominating everything since the beginning of mankind get labelled as “sinophile” or “liberal”

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            He isn’t the first I have listed.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Also, I keep bring up the Mongols because this was the only time when a real point of comparison could be made in history.

            In no other period in history have the Chinese really even came close to contacting the West, direct, or indirect. The Mongol Conquests offer a great comparison because the Mongol army directly fought both civilizations at nearly the same exact time.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            And here is one final point I would like to add before I go to sleep.

            We are comparing China to the WHOLE of Europe and Russia. If we included the entire East Asian Sphere rather than China instead, it would be a very different argument. THEN, I think you can pretty conclusively say that EAST ASIA has been superior to Western Civilization for the majority of time. East Asia Definition = China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            How in the world does including Korea, Japan and Mongolia, help your cause? All three became civilized later than China.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            .

          • 李冠毅

            I’m just a school student, so I’m not very knowledgeable. Plus, I have pointed out that I’m just posting what I read. If you can debunk them, then I’ll happily accept the truth, just like I said my comment above.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            “China did a disproportionate amount of just about everything.”

            I specifically wrote out a timeline so that generalizations like this would not be made. You will never catch me stating that China was better Europe during Ancient Roman times, you will never catch me saying that China was better during the Renaissance, you will never catch me saying China was better during the industrial revolution or modern times.

            You WILL however catch me saying that China was superior <500BC, and from 500BC-1400

            those periods, make up the vast majority of ancient history, sorry if you cannot see it that way. I am just trying to look at things objectively.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            When I say superior in all thing, I am more referring to the entire timespan of ancient history. There are moments in time, for instance, the Ancient Roman Empire, where we were superior in all things, but for the vast majority of Ancient history Chinese civilization was without a doubt number 1. Obviously, they are number 2 in modern times.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            “…..for the vast majority of Ancient history Chinese civilization was without a doubt number 1” .
            See, this here is another bold assertion on your part. What is this even supposed to mean? Superior how exactly? When you make claims like this then how do you expect me to respond?

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Ok, when I say superior, I am referring to a militaristic and economic standpoint. What their countries gross out put is, technological sophistication, etc.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I mean, if you take everything as a subjective measure you can turn the argument around.

            I can imagine a Chinese person say, “what do you mean the Roman empire was superior, superior how, etc”

            If you analyze history already deciding that one civilization should be better at all times, the periods where that civlization IS actually better, there is not doubt in your mind. The periods where that civilization is NOT better, you twist things in favor of the civlization you want to be better(which in your case is Europe)

            A Chinese person can do the exact same thing your doing if he went into a historical argument with a bias for Chinese civilization, as clearly you have seen that other Chinese dude doing.

            In my mind, you guys are two sides of the same coin. You have a clear European Bias, he has a clear Chinese Bias. Of course, this is only natural. I try to look at history as objectively as possible.

          • 李冠毅

            Take a closer look at which comments I upvote. I did not upvote his comment which claims “blacks and browns” never showed any potential.

  • Usually Much Calmer

    Funny that the Japanese have the fine art of etiquette down and even if the Chinese did have the sense to appreciate that, the Japanese wouldn’t deign to instruct them anyhow.

    Who throws boiling water on anybody?

    • Sick of it

      “Who throws boiling water on anybody?”

      Muslims? They certainly throw acid enough.

    • thomasdosborneii

      I was thinking that we white Americans (me, anyway) are savages compared to the Japanese sense of etiquette. I have always been extremely impressed by them. And you are right, they wouldn’t want to instruct the Chinese, whom I think are dangerous to them.

      The boiling water thing…I hope the lesson was an immediate arrest upon landing. Since I do manage to travel maybe more than the average person and have respect for the flight attendants, I cannot tolerate rudeness (or outright assault) to them. Actually, in my book, that goes to more than just flight attendants, and includes waiters and waitresses, bartenders, grocery clerks, and so on, but flight attendants do seem to be uniquely and unfairly vulnerable to rudeness due to the stresses involved with airline travel.

      • Usually Much Calmer

        The Japanese fascinate me, too. The jump from 19th century feudal life to modern Tokyo is inexplicable to me. They covered so much ground so fast.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        In some ways the Japanese are more civilized (when observing the sense of etiquette) but in other ways they most certainly aren’t. It is a tradition in Japan to slurp your noodles as loud as possible. Jared Taylor says that when drunk they act worse than drunk white people.

        I have also been surprised in recent years in regards to what passes as entertainment over there. There is this one game show that has a full seated live audience where two men are competing answering questions. Each time a man gets a question wrong, there is a corresponding man (for each team) who is leaning back on a table with his legs spread, wearing a jock strap or very small underwear, or a thong, and each time a question is answered wrong, the corresponding table with the man on it gets scooted closer and closer. The fait of the loser is to have one of the men on the tables pass gas, where the poor loser’s face is strategically placed .

        I think in the United States, there have been similar freak shows late late at night, like on Howard Stern, but we have never had anything like that pass as a mainstream game show with a full seated live audience. It was actually Jared Taylor who first wrote of some of the odd and unusual bathroom humor related entertainment in Japan. I couldn’t believe him at first, but it didn’t take too long for me to search on Youtube for a few minutes and find out for myself. I was beside myself.

    • Japanese had to learn etiquette the same way we did: some of the men would kill folks for any provocation at all. This would naturally have weeded out the troublemakers.

  • Andy

    I’ve never heard of peeling an orange with a knife and fork. Do people really do that?

    • Alexandra1973

      I use a thumbnail.

      • thomasdosborneii

        I use an orange-peeling tool made by Tupperware. I wouldn’t do it any other way. Maybe I need to learn the knife and fork method?

  • Andy

    I had a Chinese student who picked his nose in public. I was shocked, but I did get the impression the other Chinese students weren’t surprised.

    • Ron Cheaters

      They also fart publicly without realizing.

  • gemjunior

    Ohhhhh so that’s why they batter their way onto the subway cars, pushing old ladies and prams out of their way — because they don’t understand the concept of “personal space?” How interesting. I wonder if they’re teaching them not to blow out one nostril and hit you from across the street? One day when I was about 13, I was going to the bakery for an old aunt of mine who was from Poland but had married my uncle and they lived in a sprawling apartment down on the lower east side (before Chinatown had spread to take up their whole area around Catherine Street, Cherry Street, etc.) when this Chinese man blew his nose by holding one nostril closed and exerting all his expiratory pressure out of the other one and it landed right in front of my brand new white sneakers from Alexanders. Anyone remember Alexanders? LOL.

    • thomasdosborneii

      I remember watching a documentary about Hong Kong, and where there was so much money that some very rich but young “trendy” people would go out for an evening of bar-hopping and dancing and in the crowded city center there was no room to park the cars, so their chauffeurs would simply drive around and around eternally until they were called by cell phone to come pick them up and take them to the next destination. In the midst of this “figuratively lighting their cigarettes with hundred dollar bills”, there were only a few layers back from all this high living whole families of urban Chinese who simply live on the street. No housing at all. So, for people impoverished like that, “personal space” doesn’t compute at all. Every single thing they do is public, so they never developed a sense of hiding certain personal activities. And for those who are newly rich, they never developed a sense of not overly showing off their wealth when there is so much poverty around all over. In fact, I think they work overtime attempting to show off that wealth, which is one of the perks of having it, in their view.

    • TonyWestfield

      For a couple years, back in the 1980’s, Alexander’s was on my walk through the World Trade Center twice a day as I commuted from Jersey to Wall Street. There was also a gigantic Alexander’s on the highway, North Jersey. One of my aunts worked there. The store had some funky art work on the outside, visible from the highway.

      P.S., The nostril-clearing is too common. After seeing it a few times, I decided that the action ought to blow out an eardrum from the inside, which leads me to believe that the people who do it habitually must have mutant sinuses. The action has a name, at least in my personal vernacular. It’s called “the air handkerchief.”

    • IstvanIN

      Alexanders in Menlo Park, NJ was known for being the polyester shopping spot for dots.

      • gemjunior

        Well in Queens, it was the place to go for gear if you had little money and large families, and yes there was a lot of polyblend but it was the ’70s which I have fond memories of (not the clothes, the years!)

  • Realist

    “Chinese etiquette schools teach Asians how to behave like whites.”

    So the Chinese are going to allow immigration of low IQ, low life’s into their country…..they’re screwed.

  • CourtneyfromAlabama

    The following post isn’t meant to belittle the Chinese ( a lot of people on this website are sensitive to this topic for some reason), but anyways….

    This is the race of people who we are told in the West to constantly admire, aren’t we? I have always found this whole topic questionable to say the least. Is there perhaps a huge difference between small pockets of East Asians, like the Japanese, compared to the larger groups of mainland Chinese in this regard?

    I cringe every time I watch a historical documentary, and the narrator has to remind us about how the “hairy Portuguese missionaries appeared like slobbering, dirty, barbarians when they visited the Far East for the first time”.

    My reaction to that is always, “so what?”. Why don’t we hear more about all of the science we were teaching the East at that time? I guess we are too busy learning about how we learned about silk and gunpowder from them and nothing further, and therefore that alone qualifies their civilization, along with the topic of cleanliness, to be superior to our civilization.

    I have personally observed how the Chinese from the mainland behave in public. They are no different than arabs and blacks and Hindus etc…. when it comes to how they vulgarly go after blonde women.

    • Lygeia

      I’ve always thought that the old trope about the dirty European sailors offending the delicate sensibilities of Asians had more to do with a lack of Asian hospitality.

      Who doesn’t give a traveler (especially back in the past when traveling was a dangerous and yes, dirty, endeavor) the hospitality of a hot bath and clean clothes?

      The good manners to extend warm hospitality to others is one of the eight Viking requirement to being a decent person.

    • Korean guy

      I am sorry to hear that. I won’t ask what happened or what you saw. But majority of East Asian boys are very polite, well-mannered and well-educated.

      • Most of them are nice sorts.

        • Korean guy

          I remember when Japan suffered tsunami in 2011

          Many South Korean celebrities donated several thousands of dollars and many locals in South Korea personally went to Japan to help the country recover and restore.

          I am sure I would have gone to Japan to help as well, if I were in Korea in 2011.

          This girl (celebrity) donated $100K USD

  • slobotnavich

    I wonder if I could get a teaching job at one of these schools. In addition to English and Spanish, I’m a fluent Ebonics speaker and could relate easily to ghetto-born black youths.

  • Poupon Marx

    Back in the Golden Shower Clinton Administration, the Chinese paid the Clinton’s, pissed on Bill’s shoes, and flung the snot off their fingertips at Hillary. Then they laughed in their face, while Bill gave them missile, satellite and other technological secrets.

    Since that time, all they do is laugh in our face as our politicians and industry leaders sell off or transfer secrets, technology and jobs to them. All thanks to etiquette training.

    • Ultimate187

      A lot of that was due to western greed, not eastern etiquette.

      • Poupon Marx

        U187, it takes two to tango.

  • WR_the_realist

    Oh dear, I’m one of those uncouth people who still peels oranges with his fingers.

    • I just quarter oranges with a knife and bite them out of the rinds that way. If I want the sections to look decorative in a dish I am preparing, then I’ll peel an orange with a knife.

  • Magician

    I saw some photos currently displayed on Victoria’s Secret website and felt a few things.

    victoriassecret[dot]com/swimwear/shop-the-2015-tv-special

    – I notice most of them are white girls, with a few colored girls included among them. I will not deny that the colored girls look as beautiful as the white girls.
    – To be honest, they do not look beautiful. It appears those girls tried too hard to lose weight, or stay skinny, and they might have managed to maintain their skinny bodies, but also gone are their butts and breasts, and their faces now look angular, boney, unnatural and unhealthy. I certainly hope my own two girls do not look like them when they grow up.
    – And why do many modern makeup artists emphasize the models’ eyebrows? Those strongly emphasized eyebrows make the woman look masculine ( in other words, less feminine) rebellious, cold and snobbish.

    • John Smith

      If black women are attractive, it is because of how much European genetics they have; they need to have more than half.

  • Magician

    I am expecting Mr Engelman to comment “How wonderful of those ladies to make such great efforts to learn Western manners! I can never stop admiring them!”

    • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

      Engleman is a fool. He must be a sem!te.

      • I think he he’s a Presbyterian or something like that. He has been foolish, but so have I.

        • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

          In what way have you been foolish??

          • I used to love shooting old military rifles, and ensured over money that I don’t need that I may well never be allowed to own them again.

  • Kenner

    I saw a documentary showing a young Chinese couple lovingly picking each other’s noses.
    I decided this merited a fanciful, poet name, like the ‘delicacies’ on a Chinese menu.
    I call it ‘Mining Jade’.
    In China, you can pick your friends, and your friend’s nose!

    • Some Chinese food is great. Some is quite hideous. Sea cucumber is just plain beyond bad. It looks like a plant, but is actually a tidal pool animal (?), probably poisonous to mammals. Yes, I have eaten it, and it isn’t very good. An orc can can eat almost anything. I like menudo. That’s guts and tripe in soup, Mexican-style. If one fries almost anything, it’ll be OK, but sea cucumber isn’t good stuff.

      • Kenner

        I tried sea cucumber, it was flavorless.

        • John Smith

          I remember it as having a chemical-like flavor.

      • IstvanIN

        And I thought Menudo was Ricky Martin’s old boy-band!

        • Kenner

          I had some home-made menudo once that was pretty good. Lots of cilantro and different chiles in it.

          • I like menudo. Wally World has that in a can, as well as pazole. I don’t hate Mexican food: just the people.

          • John Smith

            They belong in Mexico, which is where I’d be okay with them.

      • John Smith

        Amazingly, I’ve actually tried sea cucumber. While I didn’t like it, it didn’t make me vomit or gag either, it just tasted strange, as best I can recall. That and uni sushi are about as strange as I’ve tried; sea urchin was okay, but I mostly only remember it as being cold on the tongue from being served chilled.

    • Ultimate187

      I seriously doubt that was a “documentary”.

      • Kenner

        It was a clip on a travel show some years ago. It wasn’t a prank.

  • I swallow seeds.

  • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

    They want to be like whites, but still they hate whites. and they call us mad,

    • They think we can not be predicted.

      • Kit Ingoldby

        They are right.

    • evilsandmich

      I wouldn’t say “hate whites”, what they do have is an ethno-centrism of which white people such as ourselves should be rightly jealous of (I know I am).

      • Americaandthewestshouldbewhite

        Well don’t worry we can get it back again.

  • Fr. John+

    You can change the exterior, but the interior will ALWAYS revert back to form. The book, “Ways that are Dark” by Townsend was an eye-opener for me. We forget our racial uniqueness as Whites, to our peril.

  • But why do Asians act so polite when they are here? Also, these classes should try and teach our black people some manners.

    • CourtneyfromAlabama

      Maybe because the upper classes come here? And from my observations they aren’t always polite.

    • Mark Zhao

      I think Chinese peoples is nice peoples, just don’t know the Western Good manners. Even if Chiense look rude in China, they still very nice people, just rough manners sometimes. If visiting China, people yelling, spitting, but still nice people. Just manners are not so good, but usually never trying to harming people.

  • CourtneyfromAlabama

    Mark, I think through the language barrier there must have been a misunderstanding. I never said China didn’t have any great ancient civilizations. I also never described the Chinese as a whole as terrible, backwards, people. Chinese civilization is great in its own way. All I was doing was responding to the propaganda in modern day media where China is praised far more than it should be, in a historical sense as well as a modern day sense.

    Westerners aren’t simply going to just sit here anymore and listen to these lies about how China was more advanced than the West until 1800 AD when there is very little evidence to support that, and it wasn’t until very recently that SOME Western historians have been promoting that lie. It is a ridiculous lie to be promoting when observing all the back to back civilizations in different parts of the West from 2700 BC through to the modern era. This doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that China didn’t have great civilizations too.

    In regards to Chinese inventions, yes, China invented some important stuff. But they didn’t discover anything more important than what the Greeks did . They didn’t do anything anymore impressive with engineering and administration than Rome. During the Dark Ages, there was a period where China invented more, but around 1200 AD Europe started doing the same as China and was soon inventing much much more.

    • 李冠毅

      The problem is our education system is still largely based off colonial era education, which tends to suppress non-European achievements. For example, try naming the father of medicine, the father of surgery, or the inventor of the printing press.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        I didn’t realize that was still a problem in China. Interesting.

        • 李冠毅

          That’s a worldwide problem. I don’t mean to offend you, but cultural and scientific renaissance flourished in the East long before the European renaissance. For example, you may believe the father of medicine to be Hippocrates, the pioneer of the usage of anesthesia to be William Clarke, and the inventor of the printing press to be Johannes Gutenberg, none of which are true. Long before they shared knowledge with the West, the East shared knowledge with each other. But part of the effects of colonialism was to obscure these earlier histories. After all, when you want to control a nation, one of the first things you need is for them to believe in your greatness, and you accomplish that by downplaying their achievements while exaggerating your own. In recent years there has been calls by historians to rediscover obscure Asian achievements, but like you said, this is often accompanied by reverse bigotry, such as claiming the West invented nothing prior to the renaissance, and everything they had was built off the achievements of the enlighted East. This is counterproductive. I believe the only way to progress is to acknowledge that science and the modern world is created by the contributions of many cultures over a long period, and not by any single culture.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            I am not sure what you mean when you say there was a scientific renaissance in the East before the West. The Greeks came up with ideas in science that the rest of the world failed to match. The Romans and Byzantines preserved it and so did the Catholic church. Then during the Renaissance Europe went further than ever before.

            I agree that other cultures contributed. India did a lot with math. China developed some great technology. But I don’t agree with your statement about how there was a Renaissance in China first and that every culture contributed to the modern world equally. It simply isn’t true.

          • 李冠毅

            Most of what is commonly attributed to Hippocrates had already been achieved by ancient Indian physician Charaka about 500 years prior. Sushrata was the father of surgery. Over 2600 years ago Sushrata and his team conducted complicated operations such as artificial limbs, brain surgery, cataract, fractures, plastic surgery, and urinary stones. Usage of anesthesia was well known in ancient Indian medicine. Detail knowledge of anatomy, digestion, embryology, etiology, genetics, immunity, metabolism, and physiology is also found in many ancient Chinese and Indian records. China was a world leader in science and technology and one of the richest countries in the world up until the time of the Western colonial rule. Christopher Columbus was attracted by China’s wealth and was searching for an alternative sea route to the East when he discovered America by mistake.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            You are starting to sound like the liberal historians that I thought we were both in disagreement with……..the ones who like to claim that the West did nothing first. I agree that there are some things India and China did first and that they made important contributions. But to give the idea that there was nothing unique or special about what Europe did after 1350 AD, is going against tons and tons of historical evidence. At some point we have to ask ourselves why China and India didn’t develop the modern world before Europe. Why didn’t they if they did everything before Europe as some people like to claim?

          • Europeans always fought each other when nobody else was around. That’s why.

          • 李冠毅

            I did not said the West was an intellectual desert. I just pointed out that many Western achievements were often build upon the earlier achievements of ancient China and India, and that our education system seldom acknowledges non-European contributions to the world. Take for example calculus and the theory of gravity. Though Issac Newton is commonly credited as the father of these discoveries, his work was based off the earlier works of ancient Indian scientists. Ancient China did had early forms of inoculation (variolation) long before anyone else; this practice eventually spread to the West, and became the basis of the modern vaccine. China also did had a very detailed understanding of genetics, hence they practiced early forms of eugenics (known in China as “yousheng”). China also had the technology to initiate an industrial revolution hundreds of years before Europe, but they didn’t because they did not believe in cheap labor back then. The industrial revolution in Europe was largely fueled by low-paid factory workers building things like steam engine components, metal wheels, and so on.

            www[dot]amren[dot]com/news/2013/01/chinese-eugenics/

            Finally, the East has started to catch up with the West. If you stop looking purely at the achievements of the ancient Greeks and Romans, as well as the achievements of the West in the past 500 years, you will find that East Asians are about as creative as Whites; the “Whites create Asians imitate” myth will be quickly shattered.

            Patent grants for the top 10 offices, 2012. Rank of countries by patent grants:
            1. Japan 274,791
            2. United States 253,155
            3. China 217,105
            4. South Korea 113,467
            5. Europe 65,665

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            It sounds to me like you are still trying to take every achievement of Europe and then claiming the East did it first. There is little evidence to support a lot of what you are saying. You are basically saying the East had all the knowledge to create the modern world before Europe but then you create an excuse as to why the East failed to do so. It doesn’t work that way.

            At first I enjoyed debating you , but your claims are becoming more and more arrogant and fact less. I am disturbed that there are so many whites on here up voting your comments as well as praising China gratuitously in your presence. But that is how whites are these days. We stab ourselves in the backs to appease and please others.

          • 李冠毅

            Please reread my comments above, and check out my other comments on AmRen. My consistent position has, and always have been:
            1) I like open-minded discussion.
            2) Whites are under discrimination, more so than anyone else.
            3) I do not believe Blacks and Hispanics are incapable of being intelligent. They just don’t want to.
            4) Everyone has invented something. Think about it. The claim that the ENTIRE modern world was create by Whites…doesn’t it sound absurd?
            My claims are becoming more and more arrogant and fact less? Would you please provide proof that I’m bluffing? I was just posting what I read in the history books (check out “Science And Civilization In China”). If you can proof that Chinese, for example, never invented variolation, then I’ll happily agree. Also, would you take a look at your own comments? You yourself seem to be arrogant in your claim that Europeans invented almost everything, and the rest of the world had no clue and only knows how to imitate. Historical sources, as well as modern Asian achievements (read some recent scientific reports, and take a look at the number of patents being granted to Asians vs Whites) tell a different story, but I suppose you wouldn’t believe that even if I have a ton of concrete evidence. You’re claim that the commentor below is a “self-hating liberal” says it all.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            The book “Science And Civilization in China” received a lot of criticism. The author even admitted that he stretched things a little bit when making claims for China. He also had a Chinese lover. Read “The uniqueness of Western Civilization”.
            To the extent that I am being arrogant, once again, at some point you have to ask yourself why Europe created the modern world instead of China. Making excuses for why China had all this science first but then suddenly fell behind, doesn’t amount to much. I never said China didn’t do great things. I am just a little tired of the constant attempts to give China credit for things that happened in Europe that are clearly European, like the Industrial Revolution (as you have done more than once).
            I will ask once again,…..why is it that all these arguments consist of taking achievements that clearly flourished in Europe and trying to say they happened elsewhere first? I don’t see anybody in this discussion taking inventions that are clearly Chinese (like gunpowder) and trying to say the West did it first.

          • 李冠毅

            Maybe that’s because many inventions (like the printing press) was invented independently by several cultures, but Europe gets credit for it, even though it wasn’t the first to do so. That said, I guess the proper way is to give partial credit to both, so as not to induce racial supremacy. Second, many cultures have been number one at one point. Europe is just currently the bearer of that honor. At first, the was ancient Babylon, Egypt, and India, then there was ancient Greece and Rome, followed by ancient China, and now modern Western countries.

            I did not read “Science And Civilization In China”. I was just trying to find a good English language history book on China for you to read. I guess this wasn’t one of them.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            I never said that there weren’t great civilizations in different parts of the world at different times. That is obvious. I do however, feel that it is also obvious that some civilizations accomplished much more than others. “Human Accomplishment” makes this case pretty clearly, that over 85% of all human achievement took place in Europe going back to Greece.

          • 李冠毅

            I never denied that Europe, particularly during the ancient Greek and Roman times, as well as modern times, had been responsible for many wonders. However, the 85% claim is just absurd. Have you studied some ancient Chinese and Indian history? Your comments seem to indicate you are ignorant of non-European accomplishments. I mean, just look at recent Asian inventions and discoveries. How can a culture who can do that, be sleeping throughout most of history? Think about it, will you.

          • 李冠毅

            Okay, there seems to be some confusion here regarding my beliefs, which is understandable as I appear to not have expressed myself properly in my previous comments. So I’ll attempt to clear that confusion in this comment, and sorry for the long rant.

            1) I prefer intellectual discussion
            —————————————–
            By “intellectual discussion”, I mean I try to keep an open-mind on everything. And that means my beliefs are up for challenge, and are not set in stone. The modern world would never have been possible if people had not eschewed biased, emotional views in favor of the truth. In fact, this is the very definition of being a scientist or historian. You come up with a hypothesis, search for evidence, document your findings, and compare them to the currently held beliefs.

            Science and history are very complicated, and are constantly changing. Something which is previously held as fact may be debunked as myth years later (for example, do you know that salt does not actually give you high blood pressure?). In fact, this is the very definition of “learning”, of being a scientist or historian. You come up with a hypothesis, search for evidence, document your findings, and compare them to what is currently being held as facts. If enough evidence builds up against said “fact”, then science and history is updated with the new fact. That’s why a new edition of a science or history textbook has to be published every few years.

            Most importantly, always keep an open mind, and do not stubbornly hold on to a belief just because it feels good. After all, if something is true, then it wouldn’t be a belief, it would be a fact. Too many people on AmRen disregard this very important ideology, and instead believe whatever they prefer to be the truth. In that case, what’s the point of AmRen (why not just go to Stormfront)?

            You have noticed that many people like to argue “what the East did before Europe did”, and most of their arguments were not about discoveries unique to the East, and they tend have to make some comparison to Europe putting Europe down. You may ask, why? First, as I have said, history is rather complicated. Many, many inventions and discoveries were independently accomplished by many cultures at around the same time (you’ve probably heard of the saying “great minds think alike”), and yet, Europe tends to get all the credit.

            So who deserves the credit? I believe we should credit all of them to avoid inducing racial supremacy out of ignorance. Furthermore, most inventions and discoveries were built on something prior. For instance, Isaac Newton did not come up with calculus and the theory of gravitation by himself; he just improved upon the earlier works of ancient Indian scientists. Another good example is Charles Darwin. He codified the theory of evolution, but he wasn’t the first to come up with it. Ancient Greek (specifically, Aristotle) and Chinese scientists have some degree of understanding of the concept evolution thousands of years prior. And yet, many books today credit Newton solely for the invention of calculus and the discovery of gravity, and Darwin with the discovery of evolution. Part of the reason for this may be due to Western individuality, which drives a desire to name AN inventor of…well, everything.

            How is that fair? The modern world was not created by single individuals. It was build by the contributions of many people from many different cultures over a long period. I once read about an American military instructor who was frustrated at the inability of the recruits to eschew individualism and instead work together, blaming this mentality on Western culture, which propagates the “dangerous belief” (actual quote) that with enough determination, single individuals can break down any resistance and achieve remarkable success (e.g. John McClane from Die Hard). The instructor handed the recruit a handgun with a single bullet and told him that this was a better way to commit suicide. Hence, I believe history books should reflect the truth, and credit numerous people for most inventions and discoveries, which were never the achievements of single individuals to begin with.

            2) If the truth offends, it is our duty to offend
            ——————————————————–
            That’s my favorite quote from Satoshi Kanazawa. I believe books should always state the plain truth, no matter how hurtful they can be. After all, science and history is not politically correct. Galileo was prosecuted by the Church for his discovery that the Earth rotates around the Sun. Likewise, many people today are still prosecuted in their search of the truth. That is the mark of a good scientist/historian; it is the quality of the data they cared about, not whether it fits their or anyone else’s likings.

            I have read many books on the history of China, Europe, India, and the Middle East. Even though I’ve forgotten most of it (that’s a lot of info, and many of those books were read long ago; one person will find it hard to remember that much stuff, which is why individualism doesn’t work), I still remember some things, such as ancient Chinese and Indian accomplishments, which I had posted on AmRen in an earlier comment.

            You replied to my comments with name-calling (“liberal”), and did not attempt to debunk me with facts. You have already made up your mind that Europe is superior, and any facts which says otherwise is denounced by you as “liberal”, while facts which support your belief draws a “AHA! Told you so!” If we refuse to eschew emotional viewpoints, what makes us any better than the very liberals whom we oppose? The liberals who claim that history should be rewritten to conform to politically-correct views. That is NOT history; that is nothing but propaganda (or some would say pseudohistory).

            Even if you disregard “Science And Civilization In China” (as I said earlier, I did not read that particular book; I just Googled “Chinese inventions” and clicked the first book I saw to attempt to provide you with an English language reference), ancient China did invent many things; see Wikipedia’s page on variolation for a good example. I salute you for pointing out that “Science And Civilization In China” is biased. However, you didn’t seem to consider that your own sources may be biased (Ricardo Duchesne, the author of “The Uniqueness Of Western Civilization”, has been criticized by historians for his ignorance of Chinese, Indian and Middle Eastern accomplishments; for example, Al-hazen, Mozi, and Nazir al-Din al-Tusi).

            For the record, I pointed out many non-European achievements in my earlier comments not because I’m anti-White, but because your comment indicates you are ignorant (or perhaps in denial) of non-European achievements, and that’s why I corrected you. That’s not the only thing I attempted to correct; if a commentor here shows ignorance on any other topic which I have some knowledge in, then I will also attempt to correct him, and if I’m proven to be wrong, I will gladly change my beliefs. Take a look my earlier comments on various AmRen articles, in which I corrected several misconceptions, including inbreeding, the protection offered by tenure, and so on. Isn’t this the point of AmRen? The comments section even has a notice: “We welcome comments that add information or perspective…”.

            Anyway, back to the topic of liberals. Evidence have emerged that ancient Europeans may have set foot on America before the Native Americans, and on South America before the Portuguese. However, the Brazilian government proceeded to bury the wreckage of the Roman ship which was found in the harbor of Rio de Janeiro because it conflicts with their version of history, which claims that Brazil was discovered by the Portuguese, not the Romans. Also, the Native Americans have attempted to subpoena the ancient fossils of Europeans from the university which unearthed them, because it presence of said fossils on American soil suggests that it wasn’t the Native Americans who settled on America first, but White Europeans, and the Native Americans may have wiped out these early settlers to claim America for themselves; in which case Whites colonizing America was well-deserved karma for the Native Americans.

            So you see, if we behave like this, what makes us better than the very liberals whom we often criticize for their tendency to exclude any realities that do not fit into their preconceived beliefs, and who like to stifle dissenting viewpoints by name-calling (labeling someone “racist” is like the modern equivalent of labeling someone a “heretic”) rather than by facts? For the record, my goal was never to shut out the West; there are many inventions which are well documented to have originated in Europe: analog computer (the Antikythera mechanism), astrolabe, eye glasses, flamethrower, and so on; I do not deny archaeologically proven stuff. But what many AmRenners are doing is blatant denial of non-European inventions. I’ll end this comment with another of my favorite quotes: “It’s time for an honest conversation between the East and West, of respect for each other and their contributions to civilization, and a mutual process of learning from each other and a building of a garland of wisdom with blossoms from both Eastern and Western gardens. Let the wearing of the blinds of ignorance be the specialty of someone else”.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            I dropped out of this discussion because you and Johnny have repeatedly misconstrued my argument. Here, once again, you have disregarded my countless statements where I have repeated over and over that I a) recognize China invented great things b) that China was more advanced at certain times and c) that China has had a great tradition of civilization.

            All I have been doing is debating you and Johnny about ever so extreme assertions that both of you have made more than once, implying that specific achievements like the Industrial Revolution weren’t European (in your case) and that China has been the most superior civilization in most of history (in Johnny’s case). I have given up on even trying to understand how this equates to both of you coming to the conclusion that “I am not giving China any credit”.

            Also, just now, you claim all I have done is name call. Are you serious? 95% of the content I have written has consisted of debunking your arguments. You haven’t provided any more evidence for your arguments than I have.

          • 李冠毅

            Okay, that may be partly my fault, as I haven’t expressed myself properly.

            I once have a strong dislike of Islam, until one day a foreign teacher visited my school. He stated reading us various ancient Islamic folk tales (The Tale Of A Thousand Of One Nights, in which many of the main characters were female, and were portrayed as strong characters who had control over their own fates and who did not bow down to patriarchy) as well as several ancient Islamic texts, which clearly encourages learning and innovation, and which clearly denounces the behavior currently espoused by so-called “Islamic” terrorists (in fact, the Quran had predicted that Muslims will turn away from its actual teachings: “The Messenger will say ‘My Lord, surely my people have taken the Quran for a joke’ – The Criterion 25:30”). That class shattered my assumption that Islam oppresses women and is violent and backwards. The foreign teacher ended the lecture by saying in English: “A stigma is a blemish on a reputation that causes people to pass judgement on subjects they often times know LITTLE ABOUT. This lecture featured a religion that so many associate with evil deeds, and shows it full of positive ideals that define the religion more appropriately. In making it so blatant in the showing of these ideals, those who look on will hopefully think twice before assuming their immediate association is correct”. I was so impressed, I wrote down that quote in my notebook.

            I was using this teaching technique which I picked up. I pointed out several non-Western inventions and discoveries because you said the majority of everything (85%) originated in the West, which isn’t true. You appear to have a poor understanding or perhaps a STIGMA of non-Europeans. That’s why I put forth some examples of ancient Indian and Chinese accomplishments to try to get you to rethink whether your assumption is correct; just like how I changed my views on Islam. I guess that message was misinterpreted as an attempt to downplay achievements of the West. Also, I did cite several sources, including AmRen, Wikipedia, and the patent office.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            First off, I agree that “Science and Civilization in China” is hogwash. I can tell when someone is clearly biased one way or the other.

            Second, I NEVER say that China was responsible for the Industrial Revolution, not even once. I was in fact criticizing the other Chinese Guy (not mark) for making such claims.

            I ALSO SPECIFICALLY STATED, that it is HIGHLY LIKELY that we have NATURALLY HIGH CREATIVITY. So even though the Chinese invented many of these things, only once they were in OUR hands, were we able to take these things to the next level.

            There are only 3 possible reasons why we are ahead right now.
            1) We are more creative
            2) Circumstance
            3) A mix of both.

            I would say 3 is the right answer, but I do think circumstance had a MUCH bigger role than you are prepared to admit. There are so many variables, such as political systems at the time ETC, that you cannot tease out the “more creative” variable as the sole explanation, or even the dominant variable.

            BUT, here a big BUT, if China ends up inventing all the things 100 years from now(which is scarily a very high possiblility considering the growth rates of East Asian economies), are the Chinese then more creative?

            You will likely say, of course not, they stole all our stuff! Then the Chinese will use your line of reasoning and say, IF YOU GUYS HAD IT FIRST, HOW COME YOU GUYS ARE NOT BETTER NOW??? WE MUST BE MORE CREATIVE and/or HIGHER IQ!

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            Wow. There you go again putting words in my mouth. I have admitted multiple times that China was more advanced during the Middle Ages. It is your other assertions that I don’t agree with.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            You see here, I am in clear agreement with you. It is completely silly to say that Chinese started the Modern Civilization. So you see, I am not the brainwashed liberal historian that you are looking for, but at the same time, I will never make claims that Middle Ages Europe was somehow better than Chinese Civilization. This, in my opinion, is equally silly give all the historical evidence.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            Are you even reading my posts? I never said we were more advanced during the Middle Ages. This is beside the point in regards to your other outrageous claims.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Ok, well forgive me if I misread what you wrote, but I did remember you saying that Europe during the 1200’s were catching up to the Chinese, which is probably what I was referring to.

            And also, please point out where you think I was making outrageous claims.

          • Christopher Columbus wanted spices, like pepper and cloves. The Roman surgeon Galen had already done most of the original surgery.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            Good point, M C Scott ! Christopher Columbus was impressed with Chinese wealth and size, and with the natural resources of India. He wasn’t impressed with the “science” of either civilization. I am not saying there wasn’t science in either, but I have never read anywhere where Columbus commented on this science as if it was better than our science.

          • 李冠毅

            What do you mean by original? Prominent ancient Asian surgeons, such as Sushrata, predated Galen by centuries.

          • listenupbub

            Yes I cannot believe a bit of what is claimed about India’s inventions. Indian “history” is like Russian history was a few decades ago…full of nationalistic fantasy.

            They claim all kinds of crazy discoveries in pure mathematics, by stretching nonsensical abstract philosophies as if they were meant to talk about set theory.

            As for “artificial limbs,” do you mean, like, a peg-leg? Certainly they had no electronics 2600 years ago!!!

            ALL medicine in ancient times was based on superstition…anyone who claims to have had any medical science before detailed knowledge of microbiology and chemistry must, necessarily, be lying.

        • Mark Zhao

          Yes, Chinese learning system is not encouraging investions, mainly for the memorizing.
          I think there is many reasons why Chinese right now not inventing compared to Western civilization. Remember, even though total China is very powerful now, average Chinese is still very poor. It is hard to invent when so poor! Poverty line in America is below around 20,000. Chinese has 7000! Imagine that! If Steve Job only has 7000 year growing up, I think he has a very hard time inventing! Once Chiense get passed 20,000(still only half of Americans) I promise we will be inventing more, stealing less. Then we can have more equal relationship to share technologies, Americans maybe can even steal some new things back!
          You say Chiense right now do not inventing because we no have creativeness. Who knows? Maybe true, but I do not think so. I think it is mainly the education, Individual poorness, and communism system that does not reward risks like American Democracy.
          I think though Chinese People, and all al Asian including Japand and Korean and Mongolian have very much potential. Look at Japan! They have destroyed after world war 2, and then 30 years after, they become almost equal to America in Economy! Korea is also modern very fast, China is doing so right now, but we are still working. No other countries modernizing so fast! I see everybody giving Africa help for century, but they are stil not modern! Middle East too!
          I think you proud in White Civilization is Very good and very right. White peoples are very amazing peoples. But Chinese can also! I hope Chinese and West can live peaceful in the future.

          I going back to China soon, but I tell my friends that West is great civilization. Need to respect also. Maybe we learn some more democracy values to continue grow and imagine new inventions.

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            It has been nice discussing this with you. Thanks for the compliments about the West. There is a lot I admire about the East too. But of course, it is normal for all of us to prefer our own culture and to think it is the best!

          • Most societies have historically discouraged innovation. In the US, the canal boat operators demanded a government subsidy in order to compete with the early railroads.

  • CourtneyfromAlabama

    Which comment above are you referring to? I don’t see your name above in this discussion. I am just trying to figure out what this is in reference to.

  • B.A_2014

    “The Chinese have no manners. It’s just not something that is taught by parents.”

    That is an understatement.

  • CourtneyfromAlabama

    We already have one or two ethnic Chinese posting on here getting offended because we as whites finally have a few websites where we can say something nice about our race and be critical of other races (in a truthful way that never gets discussed these days; not in a hateful way by any means). I will admit that this is something that ethnic East Asians rarely come on here and do. Usually it is Hindu Indians who come on here and argue with us, not Chinese people. And the Chinese who are on here are for the most part being polite. I guess what I don’t understand, is why, as usual, we have whites on here helping the Chinese out. Nobody on here has said anything hateful or untrue about Asians. We are just discussing reality for once , in a world where we only hear negative things about whites and good things about everyone else.

    • Some of them want to understand us. Most of them never will.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        I agree. I am mainly being critical of some of the whites on here who jump to the defense of China whenever it gets criticized. The Chinese on here are only doing what is natural (stand up for their own), and they are mostly being polite.

    • Mark Zhao

      Ok, sorry I did not know this site is for white peoples. I am just reading some articles online, very intereting to me because sometimes it is censor in China. I just want to give me viewpoint being living in China.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        No problem. I wasn’t implying you couldn’t post on here. It is a public website. The more who see it, the better.

      • Evette Coutier

        I have had good experiences with Chinese people, and find them to be very polite. I don’t agree that they are rude.

    • bv

      Chinese people listen or commenting? Please go to your own blogs and say whatever you like. We’re not here for your benefit but our own people. This site is for whites to speak their own minds.

      Goodbye.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        Mark is being polite. But the other Chinese poster above is starting to make arrogant claims about what his people invented. He is making claims that should be insulting to all whites on here. But above, I see a bunch of whites up voting him and flattering him. This is what I will never understand about the Amren faithful . They are quick to say terrible things about their own but then they do stuff like this.

        • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

          You see Courtney, I am trying to be as objective as possible. And looking at what the other Chinese poster said(not mark, the guy with the Chinese characters), he obviously does not know what he is talking about. I would AGREE with you here that the enlightenment can CONCRETELY be stated as being started by us, and not the Indians or Chinese or whoever he claims.

          You see, I give credit where credit is due. But I will not go around claiming that we invented paper, compass, gunpower, etc, when CLEAR historical documentation shows that to be BS.

          There is a difference between being a race realist and being someone who tries to take credit for absolutely everything to prop up ones own race. We have already accomplished more than enough to stand by our own accomplishments. We’ve started the enlightenment, started the industrial revolution, modernized the world. No need to take anything away from other people, it just makes us look bad. The Ancient Chinese were in many ways unparralleled, I will not go around claiming otherwise. WE, on the otherhand, are unparralleled for the last 400 years, and I will argue against anyone who thinks otherwise. Key word, REALIST

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            This has got to be the 10th time that you have put words in my mouth. Where above did I ever say that the Chinese didn’t invent gunpowder and the compass? I have been pretty clear from the beginning with how I have specifically taken issue with the Chinese poster’s bold invention claims (such as modern surgery and the Industrial Revolution) as well as your bold claims about time periods. You came into this argument with flying fists accusing me of claiming that “the Chinese did nothing” when I never did such a thing. You have admitted after the fact more than once that you misread some of my comments and that I was right to debate the other guy after all. So what are we arguing about then?

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            I have no idea, I’m just trying to get out the general point of not underestimating the East Asians, or it will be our own downfall.

            After all, when did Europe start to advance? In the 14th century. Conveniently, when did the Mongols connect the eastern and western trade routes through the silk road? In the 13th to 14th century. When did Europe suddenly start to get technologies like GunPower? Coincidentally right around when the renaissance started.

            Yes, while it is certainly a stretch to say the Chinese “started the European renaissance”, it would also be naive to think that their inventions did not help us in any way. History is almost never black and white. Contrary to popular belief, the silk road did not just give Europe silk.

            Yes, maybe it took our creativity or circumstance or governental setup, or a combination of all three, to actually use these technologies to boost civilization to another level.

        • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

          The “amren faithful” are notoriously unaffected by media. The media is constantly touting undeserved African American and Hispanic accomplishments, yet how many of the amren faithful are taken in by that? Almost zero. For what reason do you think the amren faithful suddenly do a 360 when it comes to the Chinese. Have you actually thought that maybe some of it is deserved?

          • CourtneyfromAlabama

            For the thousandth time, I am not denying the Chinese their inventions. I am simply arguing against these assertions about how they did such and such before us, like modern surgery, Calculus, and the Enlightenment, which all belong to us.

          • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

            Well I can certainly agree with that.

        • bv

          Traitors that’s what they are. We have enormous psychological problems with having sympathy for the OTHER an it’s plight or misfortune.

          I now after coming to self realization that I should only have compassion for my racial group only. When I see non Europeans being displayed for charities I change the channel and ignore them.

  • Transpower

    I hope they are taught how to use a fork, knife, and spoon. I really dislike chop sticks!

  • evilsandmich

    You’re a bit hard on China for how much people make, sure $7,000 isn’t much, but it goes a lot further in China that it would in the U.S.

    As well if you stick around long enough you may witness NE Asian lovers and skeptics here go at it in a debate that’s so thrilling that it will make rock moss fall asleep.

    • 李冠毅

      I hope it never comes down to that. I was attracted to AmRen mainly because of my education and upbringing; I had been taught since young how racist White people are, and the courage and integrity of figures like Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela (yes, that kind of liberal hogwash has reach as far as Asia). Of course, thanks to this indoctrination, I developed a hatred of the West and by extension, White people, until one day when I stumbled upon this website by chance. I came to realized I had been tricked into thinking Whites are evil racial supremacists who like to claim they created everything, when in reality most of them nowadays have been taught to hate themselves and their culture (White guilt), and that maybe South Africa would have been better off if the apartheid government never left. I have since came back regularly to hear the other side of the story, of the many sufferings Whites are going through that my country’s media never seem to report.

      • evilsandmich

        Well a lot of governments (including our own!) trot out the storyline of “you think you got it bad? Check out how bad, evil, white people treated blacks!”. This is, of course, a dodge to avoid discussing why someone “thinks they have it bad” to being with.

        Probably the closest whites come to anti-Asian racism, especially in “rust belt” areas, is that many are resentful of Asian success because they think that it comes at the expense of the American worker (witness Pat Buchanan’s anti-free-trade tirade on Takis). It’s an uphill battle, but I point out the actual issues behind this whenever I get a chance; though the core issue is the common human trait of blaming someone else for one’s own problems.

      • Nobody much reported upon the Knoxville Horror.

      • CourtneyfromAlabama

        You learned a liberal version of history in regards to how racist whites are but you also learned that we created most of everything? I am confused.

        • 李冠毅

          Hmm. Now that I think of it, that is a bit strange. Our mainstream history classes here dedicate entire sections to White colonialism and discrimination suffered by non-Whites, but ignore anti-White racism. However, at the same time, the same books list many European contributors to science and technology while omitting non-European geniuses. However, our newspapers and science journals also constantly mention the bias in the history of science. Now that I think about it, I think that’s part of the indoctrination process. First, get us to believe White people are racist and evil. Then, fill our minds with a one-sided view of the history of science, then debunk it; to make us believe Whites believe they invented the majority of everything and everyone else to be below them. Of course, none of those are true; Whites were never as evil as the history classes claim, and they, as a group, never really believed in their superiority. As Johnny Marcus Cafaro said, Whites have known since the 19th century that their are other races who can match up to them. Even Adolf Hitler himself stated that he believed Chinese and Japanese to be equal to Europeans.

  • Gunter Mabuse

    Asians are so very odd. I worked in a grocery store for many years, in the produce department, and had a chance to observe many varieties of Asians.

    The Chinese were the rudest. They would rip apart the wet rack–broccoli, green onions, and other assorted vegetables–and just toss the vegetables everywhere. No shame at all. They literally would just pick apart the display and throw the vegetables on the ground that did not meet their standards.

    Japanese were not quite so rude–they would toss aside the produce, but not on the ground, and only if they felt that they were not being watched. If you crept up behind a Jap woman who was tearing apart the green onion display and throwing the veggies right and left, she would stop if she saw you watching, and would look very humbled.

    Koreans–worse than Chinese.

    Vietnamese–strangely humble. Never had a problem with a viet tearing my wet rack apart.

    • Korean guy

      “Koreans–worse than Chinese”

      Yes I am very rude. I am a cancer to the society. Whenever I go to Wal-Mart, I enter through the exit instead of the entrance. And whenever I go to a restaurant with a self-serve soft drink machine, I always make sure I enjoy at least five cups of beverage. And I only buy things that are on sale. I never buy things that are not on sale. And I do not smoke, or ever play any lottery, which means I am not helping the government with its tax revenue.

      But you are funny, you say Chinese are the rudest and yet you also state Koreans are worse than the Chinese a few sentences later. Does not that mean “Koreans are the rudest”? That is like saying “I like pizza most. By the way, I like fruits more than I like pizza”

      It is true I neither smoke nor gamble nor play lottery. I inherited it from my parents. Neither of my parents smoke, gamble or play lottery.

      One of the major projects I did in the past was to program a virtual slot machine and while we were working on the assingment, all students all learned that nobody makes money while playing the slot machines, or gambling in general. I feel one of the reasons we were assigned with that project is because the professor wanted to let us know that exact fact. Nobody makes money while gambling. The guys who design the slot machines, can design them so that nobody ever makes money.

      • Nobody out-cheaps a Scotsman. I have been making a set of fishing spears lately, but these are modular, with a socket on the end of each rattan shaft. I make the sockets by welding a 5/16-inch nut onto a washer and then welding that onto three inches of 3/4-inch inside-diameter steel conduit. This gets held onto the shaft with two cross-pins. If I want to change tips, all I have to do is screw another into the nut. This way the same item can be a trident or a harpoon with a detachable point, and so-on. All I need to use to change tips is a crescent wrench. I would like to make a trip to Louisiana for alligator hunting. Note to self: get a meat freezer for the garage.

        At Wally World, I always put my shopping cart in the cart corral, as I figure that saving the store some man-hours policing up the carts will help keep prices low. I also always enter their customer service sweepstakes survey. I already hit one winner with a $1000 gift card, and figure another would be nice.

        Have you ever seen one of those crazy old men who when they see something like plywood laying in the road will stop and get it? I’m one of them. I probably hit the “crazy old man years” in my mid-twenties. I got us a nice “Cortland” fly rod in late 2010 when I thought the aluminum case was some stainless tubing I could use. I was delighted when I discovered what was inside. I had to get a reel for it. Wal Mart had $35 reels for $35, but Cabela’s had $50 reels for $25, so I got one of theirs. The result was a $200 fly-fishing rig for $25. I make my own lures and tie my own flies. I also reverse-engineered an Abu Garcia heavyweight reel for the three-part bamboo saltwater reel from their factory drawings. The rod, when finished, will be a traditional-style Tonkin bamboo rod, but with a detachable grip extension. I won’t use cork for the grips, but beef thighbones instead. One of my neighbors is a meat-cutter, so I can easily get bones.

        When I was still allowed firearms, I reloaded, and for many cartridges, I made my own cases. For instance, I made 7.5mm French MAS and 6.5mm Arisaka brass by reforming 6.5mm Swedish Mauser and .220″ Swift cases, respectively. 8mm X 51R Lebel was reformed from .348″ Winchester. Most of the Wikipedia articles on obsolete cartridge cases have sections on case-forming, and I wrote those.

        I like it when the neighbors throw away a vacuum cleaner. I clip the power cords off those, and a new female end for a power cord is $1.59 at Wal Mart, so for that price and a little work, I have a nifty extension cord.

        I used to dumpster-dive condemned meat from the bin behind Whole Foods during winters when I was single. I figured that so long as the weather was lower than 40F, the meat would be quite OK. They had very good stuff.

        When the VCR croaked here, we set the heat down to 55F and spent the difference on used DVDs from Amazon. Yes, it was cold, but that’s what wool sweaters are for.

        I only ever gamble on the stock market, and paid off a 20-mortgage in 8 years by paying down the principal. I wanted my townhouse to clearly be a pre-existing asset when I got married. Yes, I paid taxes on my capital gains after the companies involved had paid corporate income taxes before that. I’d be rich now, if it wasn’t for the government constantly playing “Santa Claus”.

        I am not Korean at all, but I have no sense of humor when it comes to money: none.

        • Korean guy

          See? you are also laughing off my post and and share a few little things in your own life which I definitely enjoyed reading. I am sure I do it once in a while as well but, we all need to stop taking things we read on the Internet way too seriously.

      • Gunter Mabuse

        I don’t give a s^&t what you do at walmart. Stay the f%$k away from from my wet rack, though, if I ever decide to start doing produce again for a living.

        Stereotypes are used for a reason. People of certain races fit tend to fit those stereotypes. If I visit a foreign country, I am polite and humble, and respect the locals. Yet, there is a reason that there is a stereotype of the Ugly American, is there not? I don’t consider myself an ugly american; however, I cannot deny that the stereotype is justified.

        So you don’t rip wet racks apart. I believe that. Good for you. When I tutored Japanese and Korean students in the Writing Center when I was in graduate school, they all reeked of garlic. If you don’t reek of garlic, I commend you for overcoming a stereotype. Don’t tell me that stereotypes have no basis in reality, however.

        • Korean guy

          Calm down, I laughed off your comment that Koreans are worse than “the worst” that is the Chinese. You need to laugh off things every now and then as well.

          I am old enough not to be hurt by things I read about South Korea on the Internet. Things that happen directly to me in real life, and men and women who interact with me in real life, already has all my attention anyways. And I am sure I will keep reading bad things about South Korea in my days ahead once in a while on the Internet. That’s fine. My real life keeps me occupied.

          There are very few Wal-Marts in Canada. That was meant to be a joke. “I enter WalMart through the exit” is actually joke that was found on the Internet.

          So some Japanese folks and Korean folks reek of garlic?

          At least we do not stone women to death or force them to wear a garbage bag all her life or behead anyone who does not agree with a type of a faith.

          • Gunter Mabuse

            I apologize. I took your comments out of context. I am sort of a redneck myself, these days, and I often reek of garlic. It’s a Southern thing. Thank you for being such a good sport. Honestly, I missed the context, and the humor in your post. That does not excuse me for being rude to you–I do humbly apologize.

            My dad was stationed in Korea for a few years when he was in the Navy, probably back in the 60’s. The worst thing that he could say about Koreans was that, after [him] drinking all night long and catching the last bus back to the base, they all just reeked of garlic, and it made him very, very, ill. At least Koreans don’t serve bush meat–to my knowledge–the way filipinos did to American serviceman–my dad in particular–when he was drunk and helpless, and stationed in the Philippines.

            Again, I’m sorry. You are a better man than I, for taking this with such a great sense of humor.

            –Gunter

  • adplatt126

    Descend? We’re there. We’re the f’ing Egypt of North America. We live under a totalitarian, tyrannical government that rules without the consent of the people and which is run by alien ethnics. Increasingly Americans live in squalor, hopeless and poor. All hail your overlords.

  • bv

    I’ve seen the ones without charm school training eat in public. I’m still in therapy because of it and trying to recover.

  • Magician

    When it comes to worrying about the extinction of our own race, their girls are doing more damage to us than their boys are. We always see a lot more white men dating Asian women than the opposite. And the Asian girls who are less attractive, appear to be the ones doing the most damage. The most attractive East Asian women that I see, are mostly in the arms of their own boys.

    And if white couples have two kids instead of one, it will help our race survive a lot more effectively than preventing young whites from dating date non-whites. Birthrate matters more than interracial unions.

    • My wife looks plenty pretty to me. As for reproduction rates, get me a decent job in chemistry again, and we’ll have four. They would count as about two whites.

    • Johnny Marcus Cafaro

      I’ve also noticed that its usually the uglier ones doing the most damage and that the better looking ones are with their own kind. Interesting…

  • Cid Campeador

    Can you post the link for this video? Fascinating.

    • 李冠毅

      Can’t you just click on the title of the video to open its Youtube page?

  • CourtneyfromAlabama

    You may be on to something here. I am wondering if some of the white posters above who are flattering our Asian visitors are also the same ones who are quick to make negative and unfair generalizations about white women.