U.S. Marines Weaken Fitness Requirement for Women, Won’t Make Them Do Three Pull-Ups

David Martosko, Daily Mail (London), December 28, 2013

The U.S. Marine Corps has quietly walked back a 2012 directive from the service’s highest-ranking officer that would have rejected female recruits and officer candidates who can’t perform three chin-ups as part of their physical fitness training.

The reason–55 per cent of the women attempting the test are failing. Just one per cent of men can’t complete the exercise.

‘Women aren’t able to make the minimum standard of three pull-ups,’ Marine spokesman Capt. Eric Flanagan told reporters on Friday.

The startling admission, and the military’s course-correction, came after just three out of 15 females successfully graduated from the Marine Corps’ enlisted infantry training course in November.

The new rule, set to go into effect on January 1, would have changed the previous requirement–in place for more than a decade–that requires female Marines to execute a ‘flexed arm hang’, holding on to a pull-up bar with their elbows bent for 70 seconds.

2013 was to be a ‘phase one’ transitional year, according to a November 2012 directive from Marine Corps commandant Gen. James Amos, with females having a choice of which test to attempt.

‘Phase two will commence on 1 January 2014,’ Amos had ordered. ‘Pull-ups will replace the FAH [flexed arm hang] portion of the PFT [physical fitness test] . . . To pass the pull-up portion of this event, females will be required to execute at least three (3) pull-ups.’

Now, with a 180-degree pivot in the face of widespread failures, Marine commanders’ early predictions that the change was a no-brainer seem more optimistic than realistic.

In November 2012, Major General Bob Butcher told KGTV-10 in San Diego that women ‘are getting closer and closer to combat, and they need to be in top physical condition as well.’

‘We decided to execute because there is no reason why we shouldn’t do this,’ Lt. Gen. Richard P. Mills told a reporter for the corps’ website a year ago.

‘Women are fully capable of accomplishing it. It’s more recognition of the changing role of women, the changing capabilities and the changing demands that we place on them.’

Mills said then that the Marines would initially set the bar at eight pull-ups for a perfect score, or three for the minimum passing grade, ‘and then we will raise or lower that after we see how our female Marines do in the year.’

They didn’t do so well, according to a report from National Public Radio.

As the U.S. armed forces integrate women into combat roles, some fear putting them in harm’s way without preparing them for the rigors of active fighting. Female Marines will be eligible to participate in combat-ready forward units in 2016.

Marine officers declined to speak with NPR on the record, but conceded the pull-up requirement was being put off because it would cost them both new recruits and active Marines.

Females can serve in most Marine units but, just like their male counterparts, they can be discharged from the service if they fail an annual physical fitness tests.

Robert Maginnis, a retired Army lieutenant colonel, told NPR that ‘young women, in spite of all the training and all the best intentions, are not going to be the equal of young men in terms of upper body strength.’

His new book, ‘Deadly Consequences: How Cowards are Pushing Women into Combat,’ argues that Pentagon gender politics are sacrificing combat readiness on the altar of political correctness.

Other experts, female Marines among them, insist that women can meet the new standard if they spend enough time in the gym. And 45 per cent of them are making the grade.

‘Females need to realize we all have to start somewhere, and we have more than enough time to prepare for this,’ Corporal Ada Canizaleztejada told Marines.mil in December 2012.

‘About a year ago, I was only doing two pull-ups. I began weightlifting and targeting specific muscles beneficial for doing pull-ups, and now I can do nine.’

Corporal Michelle Brinn told a defense website a few weeks earlier that she reached the goal after a half-year of intense workouts.

‘Six months ago, I couldn’t do one pull-up, my triceps were non-existent, and my biceps were about as hard as a pillow-top mattress,’ Brinn confessed.

But ‘a month into my new workout regimen I was able to perform three proper pull-ups and have since worked my way up to 12,’ she said.

Lance Corporal Ally Beiswanger, who co-hosts the official ‘Corps Report TV’ program on YouTube, said in a November 2013 broadcast that ‘last year, I could barely do one pull-up, and now I’m up to eight. ‘So I’m taking advantage of the extra time to complete my goal of 12.’

A Marine Corps Web page set up to help female recruits cope with the new physical fitness standard is still active, but the testing requirement now appears destined to be a historical footnote.


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  • fakeemail

    I say give these entitled shrews combat. Send these all female units into the next war/fiasco by themselves.

    • So CAL Snowman

      Absolutely, let’s send ALL of our female “soldiers” into South Sudan and be done with it.

      • Katherine McChesney

        Send the lesbians. Lesbians are brutal. I’ve seen lesbians that were scarier than any man I ever saw.

  • Luca

    “The U.S. Marine Corps has quietly walked back a 2012 directive from the service’s highest-ranking officer…”

    Bull Scat. This is a perfect example of the Obama administration doing the arm-twisting behind the scenes.

  • David Ashton

    Don’t forget to ask the enemy not to shoot pregnant soldiers in the stomach.

  • Spartacus

    In the little group that I’m a part of, we have about 17 girls. All of them can do more than 3 pullups.

    • bigone4u

      Your girls are combat ready, Dude. Send them over here.

    • Sick of it

      Even better, send them over here to deal with our government since our men won’t do the job.

  • borogirl54

    Let’s be honest. No career female Marine is going to sacrifice her career by failing her physical fitness test. It is harder to be able to reenlist in order to get their pension after 20 years due to staff cuts.

  • ncpride

    This is exactly why I despise feminism. These women demand ‘equal’ treatment, but not really. Females have NO place on the battlefield, but if they insist, then follow through on that ‘equality’ you demand. You don’t get to change the rules… you want to be treated like a man, then ACT like one.

    • Katherine McChesney

      I despise feminism because of the dykes who push it on us.

      • IstvanIN

        I don’t think it is their sexual orientation that is the commone denominator. In 1966, Betty Friedan co-founded NOW–the first and still the largest major women’s liberation organization.

        • Alexandra1973

          National Organization of Wenches (or Witches LOL)

          • IstvanIN

            Trust me, she ain’t no wench. This one is:

          • Alexandra1973

            They hate being called wenches, do they not? 🙂 That’s my point.

            I’m a woman and I despise feminism. Men and women each have their own place, and one place is not more important than the other. In fact they’re complementary roles.

            How about National Organization of Wretches?

          • IstvanIN

            Wench isn’t exactly a PC term these days. I think witch is OK. Although Samantha was a cutie.

        • Sick of it

          Funny, I read about a first wave British feminist who jumped ship when she realized the movement was filled with lesbians pushing women toward lesbianism.

        • borogirl54

          Betty Friedan and the early leaders of NOW despised the lesbians and referred to them as the “lavender menace”.

    • RebelliousTreecko

      You can easily say that about the other “minority” rights groups.

      Progressives and Conservatives have different definitions of “equality.”

      When they say “equal treatment”, they usually mean that they want to be treated unequally and get special treatment in order to make up for past wrongs or to get leveled up on “equal ground”

      They should say what they mean.

      • ms_anthro

        They don’t want equal treatment. They want equal results, by any means necessary.

    • So CAL Snowman

      Feminists are awfully silent about the massive amount of rape in the armed forces, but I’m guessing that’s because like every other bad thing it’s majority black on White.

    • borogirl54

      Females often find themselves in combat due to no choice of their own. Remember the story of Jessica Lynch who was taken as a POW by the Iraqis She was riding in a Humvee driven by Lori Ann Piestewa, a Native American and the first female casualty of the Iraq war. They were ambushed by Iraqi soldiers. They were not a combat unit. They were a support unit that was of comprised of clerks, cooks, and mechanics. They did what they could to defend themselves but Lori ended up being killed as well as nine others in the Humvee.

      • IstvanIN

        Certainly they should be trained to defend themselves, but they still shouldn’t be in combat roles.

        • borogirl54

          This is reality. There is no battle lines anymore. The enemy can attack from anywhere. So women soldiers need to be trained for combat as men are. Like I said earlier any soldier can find themselves in combat regardless of their MOS. Jessica Lynch’s unit was a support unit, not a combat unit. The Iraqis did not know that all they saw was a Humvee and they assumed that it was a combat unit.

          • If the Third World War everyone was afraid of had broken out in Europe, NATO’s front lines would have faced conscripts, while the REMFs would have had to defend airfields and other bases from Soviet SPETNAZ special forces.

          • M&S


            If a woman cannot carry a 170lb guy out of a fire fight, she isn’t going to be able to lift 40 X 35lb 120mm rounds from the back of an M548 up to a tanker above her head, trying to load his Abrams bustle magazine.

            Women get prolactin and estrogen going in Tanner 1 almost three years before men hit their own testosterone pubescence and so are severely ‘conditioned’ because of their gender optimizations.

            This results in morphological (shorter limbs) and biochemical (lower blood protein levels) deficiencies which have derivative performance shortcomings that are both mental as well as physical.

            All as a result of the presence of these metabolic retardants in their systems for ONE REASON: to prepare their bodies as their minds for being receptive to impregnation and carriage as nurturing of a child.

            A metabolic reserve as it were.

            Prolactin gives a woman breasts at the cost of pectoral muscles.

            Estrogen marbles the muscles with added fat, further degrading their already lower (25% smaller heart/lung complex) aerobic performance with similarly lower anaerobics as the fat requires added oxygenation burn which destroys their combat stress performance.

            Now throw in the obvious effects of these hormones on their psychologies (the uprise and collapse of the female Ego and SuperEgo depending on her menstrual cycle hormonal sats is well known) and the question becomes:

            If a woman cannot achieve place in the military without a gender bias system which takes a job away from a man who performed better than she did, what role does she have that is /so essential/ that 15 women have to have MILLIONS of dollars dedicated to their presence ‘in the trenches’?

            We should not have sent in Special Forces to rescue Jessica Lynch from a hospital. We should not have sent /back/ an entire Armored Cavalry unit to resweeps the LOCs which the CSS unit she was part of /wandered away from/ before running into Fedayin.

            When the service and support element is such a burden that it destroys the combat efficiency of the unit it is attached to, it’s time to ‘lighten the load’.

            The same can be said of women in the military.

            IMO, in a world where U.S. Armed Forces are on the brink of a decade long Sequestration, there is no purpose in having women in the armed forces _at all_.

      • ms_anthro

        Jessica Lynch had no business being there in the first place, nor did any other woman in that crew. This is entirely the point. While we send women and homosexuals into combat and continually lower standards, our enemies will act as foreign enemies always have: by using men to fight brutally, effectively, and mercilessly until we are destroyed.

        A country that allows its women to go into combat is well and truly lost. Even worse is a country where the women see nothing wrong with wanting to go into combat alongside the men.

        There should be no female soldiers, period.

        • Tarczan

          As long as we are the dominant military force we can get away with this lunacy. When our troops confront struggles comparable to WW2 this madness will be shown for what it is.

          This brings up one of my pet concepts. It is clear to me that the reason for the all volunteer force was to eliminate the worst of the darkies. The Vietnam war had the first integrated US force and the truth of race was revealed. Shortly after Vietnam the volunteer army was born.

  • Puggg

    This article isn’t about race, and to pardon the pun, it doesn’t even dog whistle around race at any point. So what’s it doing on AmRen?

    Maybe because there is a hidden racial component. Maybe the AmRen editor’s decision to put it in today’s haul is the message that there is a racial component that even the article won’t hint around. I have read stats that women recruits into all branches of the Armed Forces are disproportionately black and hispanic, especially black.

    • So CAL Snowman

      It falls in line with the prevailing social and cultural Marxists establishment views and the defeat of the White male dominated society by a cadre of anti-White feminists, non-eskimos, blacks, hispanics, etc.

    • Keep Honkin, I’m Reloading

      The feminazi movement has been the blueprint for every anti(White) American, counter culture, Marxist movement to date.

    • Do we know of a certain US racial group who’s women are notorious not only for demanding government jobs, but also for obesity? Therein is your answer.

    • Luca

      Looking at the bigger picture, I can trace virtually all of our social problems to Liberal/Leftist dominated politics, law, media and academia. racial problems are one section of our societal ills.

      We have always had minorities, homosexuals, feminists, pornography, crime, economic problems etc., in this country. But it is the liberal agenda that has groomed and nurtured these problems which has allowed them to spiral out of control.

      I presume this website is about Realism and not limited to race realism. ( I hope.)

      While many of us here focus on these problems, those looking at the bigger picture tend to look at the causes.

      This article illustrates yet another area where Government intervention is screwing up everything it touches.

  • Bobbala

    This is not news. Women and minorities have never been acceptable by white male standards. Why are we still pretending to be shocked?

    • borogirl54

      I find it hard to believe that a female Marine, who does Crossfit cannot pass the Marine physical fitness test.

      • Bobbala

        The only effective solution to a gender/ race gap is lowered standards.

      • ms_anthro

        Then you should do some reading and learn more about the enormous physical strength and fitness disparities between men and women. They are huge and very, very real. Fred Reed has written some great essays on the subject.

  • bigone4u

    Next, women will demand access to player positions in the NFL. That’s when it becomes the TFL – Touch Football League.

    • borogirl54

      That is never going to happen. There are female gridiron teams.

    • Garrett Brown

      Who cares what happens to the negro league.

  • negrolocaust

    3 pullups… pitiful and sad. sickening.

  • Three?

    Is that in full pack or just in athletic shorts, sneakers and a t-shirt? There’s something here I don’t understand.

  • Rhialto

    Women in the military might not be of much use against a foreign enemy, but the FedGov will use White men for that purpose. On the other hand, the FedGov could count on female loyalty to suppress internal enemies, in situations where the FedGov could not be sure of White male loyalty.

  • Who Me?

    I am not a feminist, and I think women in combat is one of the worst ideas of all time. That said, what the heck is this? I am 57 years old and a stroke survivor, and I can do 3 pull ups! Any female should be able to do several (2-5) pull ups just to be considered a medium healthy!

  • Spartacus

    For the record – I once did 178 pullups, and no one thought I did anything out of the ordinary.

    • When I was locked up by the feds, I could do 20 without any trouble. I added one pull-up every week for the three years I was locked up. The feds had me see a head-shrinker whom I liked very much for three years after my release. It helped me quite a lot.

      I hope you do a lot of aerobic work as well. That is the sort of thing that will save you on a battlefield or an operating table.

    • Tim_in_Indiana

      I’ve never heard of someone doing that many pullups without resting. Point to a YouTube video of someone doing that many and I’ll eat my words.

      That said, being unable to do 3 is pathetic. Women tend to weigh less than men, so asking them to do 10 pullups is perfectly fair.

      • Spartacus

        Can’t find one right now, as it seems most are concerned with how many you can do in a minute, as opposed to the total . It wasn’t that hard for me, since I’ve always been pretty skin, but with strong arms and shoulders, so I had a good build to rely on. That being said, I never tried again, nor will I ever. I couldn’t feel my arms for a week or so…

      • ixObserver

        Women may weigh less but they also have a low lean muscle/unit mass ratio compared to men. On top of this their mass distribution is different than men. All in all, low upper body strength, weak arms.

      • LACounty

        178 chin-ups in 20 minutes comes out to just over 8 per minute. When I was younger in a competition I did 24 in 30 seconds. That was for the old TV show American Gladiators. I’m referring to fully extended. I could have easily done more but it was a 30 sec event. No way I could keep that rate for much longer. Perhaps I could have done 40 total. Perhaps. I’ve seen vids on YT where a guy does 40 or 50. sometimes with poor form. Many vids show guys claiming to be breaking some record, but using very poor form. There’s a vid where a guy in great shape does 59 in 1 minute but his hands are spread so wide on the bar that his chin is only 6 inches from the bar to begin with. There is no proof out there anywhere that anyone has done over 150 consecutive chip-ups using good form without prolonged rests, although I believe 178 in 20 minutes is possible. 8 per minute. That is plenty of rest for guys in great shape that have put in years of training.

    • Garrett Brown

      You mean in a days time?

      • Spartacus

        No… One after the other, witout any breaks. That clear enough ?

        • Garrett Brown

          You are just a few tens below the world record then. So, since that’s extremely unlikely, I call BS.

          • Spartacus

            Feel free to do so. I’ve been practicing sports since I was 5 – boxing, basketball, weight-lifting, etc.

            Also, you should probably check your information before accusing others of lying – the world record for most pull-ups in 30 minutes is more than triple what I did :


          • Garrett Brown

            You said without stopping however. In the 30 minute event you are allowed to drop and rest.

          • Spartacus

            Hanging (which I did do once,for about 1 minute ) is not the same as resting… Also, those people were going for world records, I did not .

          • Garrett Brown

            Correct, which is why I said resting. In the longer time frames you are allowed to rest. Just like in the Crossfit games. So if you went for the world record you would not have gotten close to it, you would have surpassed it lol. We have one of the world’s fittest men on Amren, I am honored!

          • Spartacus

            How exactly would I have surpassed it ? If it took me 2/3 of the time to make a third of the tries in the current record…

          • Garrett Brown

            You implied that if you were going for a world record you would have one.

          • Spartacus

            No, I didn’t….

            I meant those people were trying to get to a certain number, under certain conditions. Not my case, I was merely trying to convince some of my friends that they should take physical fitness more seriously.

          • Garrett Brown

            Right, so if you were trying to reach a certain number you could surpass them. That’s what you’re implying.

          • Spartacus

            No… I’m just telling you I didn’t . I just forced myself for demonstrational purposes. Nothing else.

          • Garrett Brown

            Lifting for years and being at a pretty high fitness level I just find it incredibly hard to believe you can do 180 pullups. Props if you can though.

          • Spartacus

            I was 21, and I had already been lifting weights for 7 years. Feel free not to believe me , makes no difference one way or another.

          • Garrett Brown

            Yah, you would definitely have to prove something like that through video proof.

  • Eric Ruttencutter

    Time to call Vasquez from Aliens. Shouldn’t these women have started extra physical training before joining the Marines?

    • IstvanIN

      They should be in a separate branch of the Marines specifically for women doing jobs that women are suited for.

      • “Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?”

        “No, have you?”

        • IstvanIN

          Who the heck is Vasquez?

          • Vasquez was a Mexican woman machinegunner in the “Aliens” SF movie.

          • IstvanIN

            Thanks. I saw the movie when it came out years ago but couldn’t tell you the name of a single character. I just used to like monsters.

      • Keep Honkin, I’m Reloading

        We call that “The Navy” 😉

  • JohnEngelman

    In a more sensible past women were evacuated when the enemy attacked. Women should be no where near a battlefield. Most cannot fight. When the enemy captures them most get raped.

    The purpose of the military is not to provide a diverse work force with job opportunities. It is to defend the United States.

    • Who Me?

      Hey Folks! Look here, a sensible post, and from John Engelman too.

      • Jotun Hunter

        he often starts sensible, it’s the in-road for a forthcoming deluge of anti-white rhetoric and progressive rhetoric

        • JohnEngelman

          I am not anti white. I do not dislike anyone because of the person’s race. I do have a high opinion of Orientals and Jews for reasons I freely express, documenting my assertions with material I have found on this website.

          I also think it is preposterous for members of a race who violently displaced the American Indians, and who are proud of it even though the Indians never had a chance, to complain about “genocide” and “race displacement.”

          White gentiles are not being killed in large numbers, at least not by Jews and Orientals. They are in no danger of being deported to Europe. They are threatened by academic and economic competition from two highly gifted races. There is a difference between peaceful, legal competition and genocide and race displacement.

          • Jotun Hunter

            europe is in the same (or worse situation) than the US – the american indian story has been retold to fit cultural marxist agendas like many others – they didnt create the US or Canada as nations, nor would they be capable – they were low IQ, cannibalistic, torturing, slave-keeping savages and should all the whites leave North America tomorrow within a decade they’d be back to precisely that.

            A white person, like all other races, is entitled to worry about his own genocide – just because we have been successful at avoiding it in the past does not negate that. Your thinking is so very deeply naive and flawed it’s a wonder you have any basic literacy. You’ve been hovering parasitically around these sites long enough to have learned a thing or two – unless of course you really do represent a certain other ‘tribe’ – all this time

          • JohnEngelman

            You gloat about the lower IQ’s of Indians, but resent it when I remind you of the higher IQ’s of Jews and Orientals.

          • Jotun Hunter

            stating historical fact isn’t exactly gloating – and as I’ve already attempted to explain to you — one cannot escape the personal bias of belonging to a certain group. If I were indian, I would hope I’d remain honest about these things, but I would be forced by necessity of birth to defend Indian viewpoints. As it happens I was born European. Supposedly so were you (doubt remains). Please don’t see that as an opportunity to cut and paste your tired explanation about your supposed actual lineage. Jesus engelman just the thought of your posts is enough to raise the bile of suicidal boredom, having seen you rehash the same empty nonsense for so long. BTW as I’ve also pointed out to you (without resonating in your vacuous brainpan) oriental IQ is not technically superior. Even if it was – it’s the fact that you skip over every other fact pertaining to the ‘superiority’ you are so obsessed with, historical and otherwise, to make all your childish deductions based on SAT scores and IQ data.

          • JohnEngelman

            You have suggested people ignore my posts. Why don’t you? I clicked on your name. About half of your posts are in response to something I wrote. You seldom present facts and insights, only insults.

            SAT scores and IQ data are good predictors of future performance. That is why they are used.

          • Jotun Hunter

            I’ve posted many very interesting facts and posed questions you simply can’t answer. If SAT and IQ are so conclusive then why can you not impress me with a side by side column of white and Asian inventions, both artistic and scientific, demonstrating the superiority of your favourite group (Asian)? There’s certainly nothing unscientific about that? I’m going to leave you alone to continue trolling amren as you love to do – but do not venture to other sites where you are truly out of your depth again. I’m ignoring you from here. Do some reading if you are going to postulate and present yourself as some wise seer – it really is shameful and I’m embarrassed for you.

          • JohnEngelman

            Good. Ignore me. Take your malevolence somewhere else.

          • Jotun Hunter

            are you saying I should leave you alone because you are a woman? ok – ignoring starts now officially – unless I see you overstepping and making insane moderation threats or some other outrageous goofy nonsense.

          • JohnEngelman

            ” I’m ignoring you from here.”

            – Jotun Hunter

            I knew you could not keep your promise. You could not keep it for six minutes. Try harder next time.

          • newscomments70

            “If SAT and IQ are so conclusive then why can you not impress me with a side by side column of white and Asian inventions, both artistic and scientific, demonstrating the superiority of your favourite group (Asian)?”

            *crickets in the background* He cannot and will not answer that. He loves to preach the same mantra, over and over, but he cannot respond to any solid evidence that refutes his statements. It is an endless routine.

          • Truth Teller

            Are you saying people outside of those categories can’t dominate anything? This is wrong for a lot of people from old money families.

          • shmo123

            I’ll grant you that Orientals perform well on aptitude tests in math and the sciences, they don’t do as well in abstract thought. In fact I can’t think of one major scientific advancement that has come from Asia, and not Europe or America. Music is a good example. Many Asians have learned to play violin and piano very well–some reaching the pinnacle of success– yet I don’t know of one that has written a symphony, or any long, involved piece for many instruments. Learning to play Bach is one thing–writing like one is another.

          • WR_the_realist

            More nonsense from the ignorant. The most successful theory in physics right now is QED. It explains the interaction of electrons and photons, so underpins pretty much all we know about chemistry, electronics, and photonics. In 1965 the Nobel Prize in physics was awarded to its three principle creators:

            Julian Schwinger – Jewish
            Richard Feynman – Jewish
            Sin-Itiro Tomonaga – Japanese

            Surely this is a fact over which Stormfronters gnash their teeth — if they acknowledge it at all.

            Anybody familiar with the current scientific literature knows there are a lot of Asian names on those papers. Only someone with very little knowledge of current day research could make the claim you made. Much of the scientific and technological progress made in Europe or America today is in fact carried out by Asians living in Europe or America.

          • shmo123

            Stormfront, shmornfront. I merely stated that I can think of no examples of inventions, or examples of musical creativity from Asia (Chinese opera doesn’t count) and you give me a Japanese guy in theoretical physics. Kudos to him and the two Jews with obvious Western names. Use your straw man argument somewhere else, and show me something concrete. Cars, motorcycles, cameras, phonograph records, anything, something.

          • WR_the_realist

            Thanks to digital electronics cameras are nothing like what they were 20 years ago. Who are the biggest manufacturers of professional cameras? Nikon and Canon. Both Japanese. Phonograph records have long been supplanted by CDs, which were a joint development of a Dutch company (Philips) and a Japanese company (Sony). Chances are you’re reading this post on an LCD display. Color LCD displays were all developed by Japanese and are produced in Asian countries. The U.S. and Europe never had a color LCD display industry, so you can’t pretend they just copied that from us.

            The white LEDs you can buy today are only possible because of the development of the blue LED, which was done by a Japanese engineer.

            I can only conclude that you’ve been asleep for 30 years.

          • shmo123

            You’re nit picking. Who invented cameras? Who invented phonograph records, internal combustion engines, etc. LED’s and LCD’s are all well and good but only when attached to something that’s doing the work, like this laptop. And no, I’m not up on my research on who is doing what as far as the next generation of LED’s goes, sorry. I’m not denigrating Asian engineers or their contributions; I’m merely stating that in terms of life changing inventions, Asians are way behind Europeans and Americans, and you’re not proving me wrong. As you point out though, they’re certainly making major contributions in their respective fields from all that subsidized research they’re doing at American Universities. No doubt those 20k a year Indian code writers will make their marks soon as well.

          • WR_the_realist

            Read your own posts. You claimed that there was not one major scientific advancement that came from Asia, and I pointed out that a Japanese man played a critical role in developing our most important scientific theory, QED. You claimed that Asians do not do well on abstract thought. I see lots of papers in mathematics with Asian names on them. But you don’t understand that stuff, so you ignore it.

            You attach great importance to now obsolete technologies, such as phonographs and film cameras, while stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the significance of the inventions that replaced them, because Asians played a key role in those new inventions.

            It is a fact of history that the industrial revolution happened first in Europe and America. Consequently nearly all of the basic inventions of an industrial civilization were indeed made by white people. But Asians have not merely quickly adopted the science and technology of white people. They have made numerous improvements to those old technologies, and in new fields they have created many of the primary new inventions. I see no evidence whatsoever that Asians are lacking in an ability to carry out abstract thought.

          • shmo123

            Ok. Admittedly, science is not my area of expertise, but I’m not giving up. By QED, I assume you mean quantum electrodynamics as postulated by Feynman back in 85 or so. My cursory investigations came up with no Japanese scientist who help develop it. Who is he?
            I don’t know you, but supposing you do see a lot of Asian names on mathematics papers, that still doesn’t mean that for whatever reason, training, the use of rote memorization, IQ derivations, or what have you, they still do not come up with the creativity that Europeans and Americans do. See:

            This problem has long been known to East Asian specialists as the “creativity problem”
            (Eberts and Eberts, 1995, pp. 123-127; Taylor, 1983, pp. 92-123; van
            Wolferen, 1989, pp. 89-90). Some argue that the ideographic Asian
            languages curb abstract thinking and creativity among Asians (Hannas,
            2003)…..Whatever the reason, it is evident from Table 1 that some
            combinations of cultural, social, and institutional factors combine to
            stifle basic science in Asia.
            _Kanazawa (PDF)

            I’m not doing this to prove some whacko racial theory, and there are people far more qualified than I who have written papers addressing the same problem. But even Asians admit to a “creativity” problem.
            I merely used those obsolete technologies to make a point: that those inventions, were fantastic and the product of genius, no matter their source. But by and large they are almost always the products of the west. Cameras were developed in the west, but so were digital cameras; first developed by an engineer at Kodak labs (Sassoon I think his name was).
            You seem very keen on impressing upon me how Asians have taken up the mantle and improved upon inventions that were from the west, but you fail to give me even one example. What new fields do you mean, and what were the inventions?
            Finally, if there are as many dedicated and brilliant scientists in east Asia as you claim (and I’m not trying to be facetious here, I do believe you) why have they not distinguished themselves in terms of prizes and the accolades of their fellow scientists? Of all the Nobel prizes awarded in Science since 1901, the first Asian country to make the list is Japan, which comes in at number 30 with a total of 16 (positions are based on total population vis-a-vis number of prizes awarded). Now I know there are all kinds of variables involved in this, but I don’t have the time, inclination or interest in finding out how many of the American prizes were given to Asian Americans, etc. No doubt things like that come into play. There have been many important inventions to come out of Asia, but it’s safe to say that the last millennium has belonged to the Europeans and their American cousins; and as varied and many as the reasons for that are, the idea of science in Asia and the lack of abstract thought (thinking outside the box, whatever you want to call it) must play some significant part.

          • Tarczan

            True innovation comes almost exclusively from whites. You are correct in your statements about IQ, but that is not the whole story. Whites have a broader IQ curve, with more at both ends.The true geniuses are mostly white. This is where the great advances come from, not the pretty smart guy with a 115 IQ. in addition, whites are more creative. Look at the record of inventions that matter, Charles Murray documented this at length.

            More easily, just get out a world almanac and check the inventions. At least 98% of the inventions that affected civilization
            were invented by Europeans.

          • China isn’t going to dominate anything. They currently have lots of very, very poor people. In 20 years, they will have lots and lots of very, very old people.

          • Alexandra1973

            I don’t know, my friend, they’re our creditors. You can see where that can go.

          • newscomments70

            “China will dominate the world.” At the moment, Mexico has a higher average wage and standard of living than China. How will China dominate the world if they can’t even rise above Mexico?

          • JohnEngelman

            The Chinese have much higher average IQ’s than Mexicans, and a much lower crime rate. Those are likely to prevail in the long run if China’s dictatorship does not do something foolish.

            Democratic governments make mistakes. They seldom make catastrophic mistakes.

          • newscomments70

            Outside of a few showcase cities, they are living in the middle ages. They still live in shanty towns, with squat toilets over open sewers, trash everywhere. I have worked in the shanty towns of Mexico. Even they had toilets and running water. How many more decades will it take before they have technology from the early 20th century?

            Western companies typically by cheap Chinese imports for disposable products. i.e. products such as Ikea that break after a year of use. That benefits those corporations because buyers have to buy something new every few months. If you need products for mission critical applications, such as medical use, you cannot use Chinese products. They lack QA and do not pass any international standards. in the medical field, Chinese typically buy US, European or Japanese products. Japan does an impressive job copying western technology. China does a substandard job.

            Chinese are not surpassing whites. They may surpass Western countries that are longer white…that is not a difficult task.

            I suggest you tour China PRC and India. Stay at cheap hostels and really get to know the place. At this time, you beliefs are based on theory and physical attraction.

            I do have Asian friends and associates whom I think highly of. About 20% are white/America friendly. The rest are quietly anti-white. I notice their subdued anti-white comments over the years and 78% of US Asians voted for Obama. That is even a higher percentage of Pro-obama voters than the hispanic population. If you visit Hawaii, which has a high concentration of Asians / Polynesians, the anti-white sentiment is quite verbal and physical. Whites are discriminated against and attacked often on the islands. They laugh about it as “haole bashing”. The school children have “kill haole day”…yes, anti-white flash mobs. In the Hawaiian work world, it is very difficult to be promoted or even hired if you are white.

            I travel the world and have real life experience. You are preaching to us while you live in a bubble. I highly doubt you have as much experience as me with international cultures. When I see you preaching to California teachers and law enforcement officers, that is even more ridiculous.

          • WR_the_realist

            Well 50 years ago your description would have applied to South Korea. Now South Korea is more like Japan. China’s huge population makes this more difficult, but I don’t doubt that over the decades they will move steadily forward, if some stupid world war doesn’t bring us all down before then. OTOH, I expect that 50 years now Nigeria and Chad won’t look much better than they do now.

          • newscomments70

            I believe that China might improve, but it will never be Switzerland or what used to be the United States. I like South Korea, but still, it is not up to western standards. What is a better car, a Kia or a BMW? Coed squat toilets, eating dogs, etc, still exists there.

          • WR_the_realist

            Democratic governments make catastrophic mistakes on a regular basis. The 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, for example. The Iraq War, for another. The current ongoing fiscal crisis of Japan and all the Western democracies, for a third. By their very nature democracies will always take on more debt than they can ever pay back, because generous entitlements without high taxes to pay for them are always politically popular.

          • Luca

            Eventually all tyrannical governments are dethroned. One day China will rise up and its people will join 21st Century politics.

          • Alexandra1973

            Just because Orientals and Jews have a little more upstairs IQ-wise than us whites, doesn’t mean that they should mix with Whites. Orientals, for example, can use that high IQ and improve their OWN nations and leave ours alone.

            Each race should have its own nation(s) to improve (or screw up) as it sees fit.

            I might add that I am also an isolationist.

          • Sick of it

            Another way to put that is that you’re an American. Isolationism an old tradition in our country.

          • Katherine McChesney

            Google David Yeagley….Jared’s friend. He’ll tell the truth about the so-called Indian “victims”.

          • JohnEngelman

            Tell me yourself. Anyone can say, “This essay proves I am right,” or “This book proves I am right.” That is as silly as saying, “My dad can beat your dad.”

          • WR_the_realist

            We can agree that the Indians didn’t like being displaced by whites. So why should whites like being displaced by blacks and Hispanics? If we don’t have the right to complain then neither do the Indians, especially those from the more combative tribes, who did plenty of displacing of their own.

          • Luca

            Perhaps I wouldn’t mind so much if the people displacing me were of superior IQ, trying to bring me a better form of civilization and a higher technology. Instead we are being decimated by open-borders illegal immigration, and violent feral crime, led by limp-wristed Liberals and their useful idiots.

            I would rather go down fighting then be legislated out of existence by a Liberal agenda.

          • JohnEngelman

            I share your opposition to open borders, and your support for a more effective criminal justice system, which would be a harsher criminal justice system.

    • Roninf9

      It is to defend the United States.
      This is why its being deliberately weakened.

    • borogirl54

      But like I said earlier, there are no battle lines anymore. The enemy can attack from anywhere. Look at the example of the Jessica Mc Clain and her fellow soldiers who were attacked by Iraqis but they were not a combat unit. They were a support unit. Jessica was a supply clerk, others were cooks and mechanics. They were forced to defend themselves. Nine Americans died that day including Jessica’s best friend, Lori Ann Piestewa, who was driving the Humvee that was attacked.

      • ms_anthro

        What makes you think any of us believe those women should have been in the military in the first place? You’re ignoring the obvious solution to their plight: keep them home.

      • WR_the_realist

        There is a battle line. It started at the border of Iraq. Simply saying, “Hey, we’re not a combat unit!” once you’re inside the battle line is not going to impress the enemy.

    • The Verdict of History

      Alright, but…

      Israeli Defense Forces have plenty of women in their ranks, and not merely as technicians, engineers, medical specialists and scientists.


      They play an active, practical and operational role on the battle field.


      I imagine that the Jewish Virtual Library offers some details on this, but I haven’t checked.

    • The Verdict of History

      These sources suggest that these institutions remain essentially male, but “gender-neutrality” in the armed forces is not entirely insane, provided that it is rationally tailored.

    • The Verdict of History

      Israeli Defense Forces have successfully incorporated women into not only their medical, scientific, technical and engineering ranks, but in their field-operations as well.

      With impeccable results, I might add.

  • mike2000917

    Women in combat is a terrible idea. Women are smaller,slower and weaker then men and all the propaganda from the left wont change reality. This will weaken the combat arms of the USMC significantly and the people making the decisions have never been in the military, much less the infantry.

    On the bright side, a weaker military might mean fewer pointless wars like the Iraq debacle.

    • Normal men also become quite upset when women are wounded.

      • Alexandra1973

        That’s exactly one reason why women shouldn’t be in combat.

        That, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. We women, physically, are generally not as strong as men.

        • Nobody should be in combat.

          • Alexandra1973

            I have to agree here. I believe in defense, not picking fights…and if no one picked fights, there’d be no need for war.

          • Sick of it

            If certain groups stopped trying to dominate the entire world, there would truly be no need for war. But good luck convincing them to stop.

    • ms_anthro

      It will also be useful when the Left inevitably decides to start using our own military against ordinary American citizens.

  • Neuday

    There is no such thing as homosexual marriage, and there is no such thing as a female Marine. These are category errors. Giving something the name of an object doesn’t make it the object.

    • borogirl54

      What do you call women who volunteer for the Marines, spend 12 weeks dodging sand fleas at Parris Island, SC during basic training. They have the same training that the men do but separately. They graduate as Marines after completing basic training.

      • Garrett Brown

        This article just told you it is NOT the same training. Judging by your posts I think you’re on the wrong site feminist.

        • borogirl54

          Both sexes receive the exact same training but it is sex segregated. Women get women DI’s men get men DI’s. The Marines felt that sex segregated training was the best way to go. I am not a feminist, I am a realist and this is how the Marines train their recruits.

          • Garrett Brown

            No, they do not recieve the same training. You are incorrect.

      • Keep Honkin, I’m Reloading

        “They have the same training that the men do but separately. ”

        Go ahead, let that one rattle around in your obviously empty skull.

        • borogirl54

          Okay, if you do not believe me, I suggest you look at documentaries on Marine Basic Training and this is how their operate.

          • Keep Honkin, I’m Reloading

            the dual standards prove you wrong.

      • WR_the_realist

        I would call them women trying desperately hard to be men, and probably coming up rather short, for all the trouble. Especially if they can’t even do three pull ups. It really helps to have testosterone if you you want to be a Marine. Indeed, I suspect that the average successful Marine has somewhat higher testosterone than the average man.

      • Rhialto

        Factoid: The Marines are the only Fedgov military service that has separate basic training for males and females. All the other services are Unisex.

  • Spartacus

    Not sure, about 20 minutes I think, maybe more. I was just trying to show my friends that I’m stronger than they are, I don’t train like that regularly.

  • Druid

    As in everything, the attack is on excellence. Don’t worry, they’ll get to forcing the Seals to take blacks who can’t swim – all in good time.

    • borogirl54

      The seals have to do more than swim. They have to pass other physical tests and be able to shoot. 80% of those who begin Seal training fail to complete the course.

    • MartelC

      already happening:

      Navy pushing program to recruit more minority SEALs | TIME.com


      Feb 24, 2012 – The Navy’s SEALs have exactly the opposite problem – they’re … Diverse officers represent only ten percent of the officer pool (for example,

  • I see these P90X chics doing plenty of pull ups. Maybe the USMC is just drawing from the wrong pool?

  • Katherine McChesney

    You make this sound like the military is against White females. It was females, feminists, who pushed for equality in the military. And they demanded that females be in combat as well.

    This is NOT an attack against Whites. And It is NOT part of the White genocide program.

    • Sick of it

      Ahh, but where did feminism come from? Not the United States. Not traditional Europe.

  • King of My Castle

    Is it pull ups or chin ups, because they’re different!

    • IstvanIN

      How do they differ, by hand position? I can do both and I am far from young or in shape.

      • King of My Castle

        Yes, by how you grip it. A pull-up is gripped palms away from your face, and the exercise works your back and lats. A chin-up is gripped palms toward your face, and the exercise works your biceps and upper chest.

  • OhWow

    Standards are long gone in this country. Quotas are way up. Still waiting for white NBA affirmative action though. Sure we can’t dunk or jump well, but hey quotas are quotas! Move over Michael Jordan, the 30 yr old YMCA league player needs to diversify your team!

  • M&S

    And this is why Marines call female Marines…well, erm. Never mind…

    • Are female Marines called something other than “Beach Bullet Sponges”?

      • M&S

        Something to do with holsters…

  • scutum

    Only three pullups? I am a 70 yo vietnam veteran and I can still do 15 pullups and 50 pushups with no problem. How do they expect these “Marines” to engage in hand to hand combat with an adult male enemy?

  • Luca

    Trade and business cannot be imposed upon a country, it requires negotiation between two parties.

    In every country visited, the people in power wanted the technology and benefits of trading with Europeans. Sometimes conflicts erupted but that is human nature.

  • IstvanIN


  • Anna Tree

    Costly Affirmative Action

    (prof. William from George Mason University, I fear he wouldn’t argue against racial affirmative action, but here he is about gender affirmative action)

    “Remember Navy Lt. Kara Hultgreen who was killed attempting to land
    her $38 million F-14A Tomcat fighter on the USS Abraham Lincoln? The
    Navy’s official public report was the crash “was precipitated by a
    malfunction of the left engine.” Questions about pilot error were
    greeted with charges of sexism. ABC’s Peter Jennings said there had been
    a “vicious campaign against allowing women to serve in combat.”

    According to John Corry’s summary in the American Spectator (June
    1995) and a report of the Center for Military Readiness (CMR), the
    government and media version of Lt. Hultgreen’s accident is part of the
    continuing saga of government deceit and media complicity.

    Documents obtained by Elaine Donnelly, director of CMR, shows that
    Lt. Hultgreen not only had subpar performance on several phases of her
    training but had four “downs” (major errors), just one or two of which
    are sufficient to justify the dismissal of a trainee. The White House
    and Congress’ political pressure to get more women in combat is the
    direct cause of Lt. Hultgreen’s death. But the story doesn’t end there. A
    second female F-14A pilot, identified by Elaine Donnelly only as Pilot
    B, has been allowed to continue training despite marginal scores and
    seven “downs”, the last of which was not recorded so she could pass the
    final stages of training.

    These double standards are destructive in several important ways.
    They risk the lives not only of young women like Lt. Hultgreen and Pilot
    B but the lives of fellow military men and women. They dumb-down
    aviation standards.

    They dumb-down aviation standards. After all what do we do when a
    male F-14A trainee, washed out because he had four “downs” and subpar
    performance, accuses the Navy of sex discrimination? In the name
    of sex-equality, do we lower standards for males? Finally, special
    concessions for female pilots undermine military morale and respect.


    If the Navy establishes double standards for female aviation
    trainees, families of those exposed to unnecessary death should be
    informed and the nation should debate wisdom of the Navy’s affirmative
    action policy. Then there’s the pure military mission question: how much
    military efficiency are we prepared to sacrifice to promote the leftist
    quota vision?”

    Walter E. Williams

    May 24, 1995