Debarshi Dasgupta, Outlook (New Delhi), June 29, 2009
Racism Indian Style
* A Madurai sessions court sentences Farook Batcha to two years’ RI in 2008 for harassing his wife so much about being dark that it drove her to suicide.
* In 2007, IPL authorities allegedly asked two black cheerleaders of the King’s XI Punjab team to go back home
* The information and broadcasting ministry issues a notice to Nimbus Communications for a racist ad during the 2007 India-West Indies series. The promo featured a West Indian running around for water after eating spicy food. No Indian comes to his help. The ad’s punchline: “It’s tough being a West Indian in India.”
* Bilyaminu Ibrahim, a Nigerian student at an engineering college in Greater Noida, is spat at by one of his Indian seniors.
* Robert, a Kenyan student in Pune, is denied entrance to a pub. He is asked to return on Tuesday for an “all-black” night.
* In May this year, a group of Iraqi students is attacked by a mob of 150 in Greater Noida. Three of the students are grievously injured and hospitalised.
* The Delhi Police issues guidelines in 2007 to students from the Northeast. Tips include a strict no to “revealing dresses” and curbing traditional food with an alien aroma like “bamboo shoots” which offends neighbours.
* A controversial ad for Fair & Lovely cream features a father who is unhappy because his daughter is dark and unsuccessful. The cream changes her complexion and lands her a glamorous job.
***
Humiliation for Yoyce Jones, a Black American fresh out of an Ivy League college, came bang in the middle of Delhi’s booming satellite town Gurgaon. He was at a chemist’s in one of its glittering malls to buy some face soap. The man at the counter handed him a fairness soap instead. Jones clarified what exactly he wanted but the man insisted on giving him that same product. That’s what really raised Jones’s hackles. “I thanked him for his fairness soap and told him that I was proud of my skin colour.”
Ask any African what it is like for him or her to be in India and you might perhaps think twice before calling Australia racist. It is indeed a very dark underbelly that India reveals when it comes to its treatment of the dark foreigner. Africans being called “kalia” or “habshi” is mild stuff. Bilyaminu Ibrahim, a Nigerian student at an engineering institute in Greater Noida, will tell you what it feels like to be spat on. Abdulmalik Ali Abdulmalik, another Nigerian student, will recount how much it hurts when one’s beaten with cricket bats and wickets over a simple game. Across the country, landlords slam doors when they see a prospective African tenant but drool for money when a white walks in. Foreigners’ Registration Offices cancel the visas of Africans arbitrarily and make paperwork easier for Americans and Europeans. Why, even in the film Fashion, Priyanka Chopra thinks she has hit rock-bottom because she finds herself sleeping with an African!
Of course, the Indian prejudice against the “shyam varna” is as old as Hindu mythology itself. “When Krishna literally means dark,” says Mumbai-based mythology expert Devdutt Pattanaik, “why is he always portrayed in blue rather than in natural black?” Comics and TV serials routinely depict evil (the demons) as dark and good (the gods) as fair. “It just reinforces our prejudices,” says Pattanaik.
The south Indian has long become accustomed to the northerner using the term ‘Madrasi’ as almost a pejorative for his darker skin tone.
“There is a certain dominance of north Indian aesthetics,” says Delhi-based sociologist Patricia Uberoi, “where feminine beauty values a fair skin contrasted with dark hair and combined with soft features and big eyes. This goes with the global aspect where Indians are being exposed to international television that celebrates East Asian beauty with fair skin and dark hair.”
However, while the South may decry this attitude of the northerners, it is as guilty of placing a huge premium on fairness.
Tamil cinema, in fact, is known for reinforcing the stigma against dark skin. Superhero Rajnikanth himself may be dark, but fair women all the way from Rajasthan are imported to star in Tamil films.
Indian advertising too for long has courted fairness. You will never find a dark woman or man selling you a cosmetic brand in the Indian media. Or for that matter anything. After all, who can look better than a John Abraham peddling Garnier’s new fairness cream? And in case you were beginning to forget the importance of fairness, Vogue India reminded us of it blatantly with its inaugural cover in October 2007. It flashed pale Australian model Gemma Ward as its centrepiece with the relatively darker Indian beauties Bipasha Basu and Priyanka Chopra as her sidekicks.
Matrimonial ads, week after week, hammer this in unfailingly: dark is ugly, fair is lovely. The dark can sit on the marriage shelf, there is demand only for the fair or very fair. And it is not uncommon to find dark men marrying into poor families just so that they may have a fair bride.
Sometimes this obsession with fair skin can be fatal. Like in the tragic 2008 incident, when a woman was driven to suicide after her husband constantly harassed her for being dark. The Madurai sessions court sentenced Farook Batcha, the husband, to rigorous imprisonment for two years. The judgement was later upheld by the Madras High Court and the Supreme Court following an appeal by Batcha that calling one’s wife dark did not amount to torture.
Doctor V.K. Sharma, president of the Indian Association of Dermatologists, Venereologists and Leprologists (IADVL), points to a harmful turn that the obsession with fair skin has taken. Across urban and rural India, illiterate and unaware women aspiring to be fair are being sold Betnovate, a skin steroid cream, to lighten their skin. Meant for certain skin rashes and inflammations, a fairer shade of skin is only its “side-effect”. But that hasn’t stopped this prescription drug from becoming sold widely as a fairness cosmetic. Repeated use of the cream leads to thinning of the skin, loss of elasticity and bacterial infections, among other harmful effects. It is for this that the IADVL is discouraging the use of fairness creams.
What explains this Indian obsession with fair skin and disdain for the dark? Some argue that a fair skin indicates social superiority, but then even among, say, the fair-skinned Kashmiris, caste is a reality. Most point to a colonial hangover that ingrained in us the idea that the ruler is always white. Some like Bangalore-based sociologist G.K. Karanth say the reverence for white skin goes back even further. “Look at the ease with which the supremacy of Alexander over Porus was accepted,” he says. But there is little doubt that the slave trade and colonialism instilled modern power equations into what was till then simply a matter of ‘aesthetics’. “It then became a marker of people trying to be like the white (the one who dominated),” says sociologist Ashis Nandy.
Like a tool to help climb up the social ladder. Adds D.K. Bhattacharya, a retired anthropology professor from Delhi University, “There are reports from Africa where indigenous people would smear their face with limestone during Christian ceremonies to resemble the white missionaries.”
Prakash C. Jain, a professor at the Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi, who has studied the Indian diaspora, says there has also been an “undercurrent of racism” between people of Indian origin and Africans in Africa. Traditionally, most Indians limited social interaction with Africans and stayed in separate housing estates. Intermarriage was practically non-existent in South Africa, with just 57 instances from the pre-World War II era to the ’60s, he points out.
For T.K. Oommen, emeritus professor of sociology at JNU, racism combines elements of “culturalism” and “ethnicism”. So there is the broad, implicit and very prevalent idea that Africans are culturally and ethnically inferior to Indians. “Indians have always made such distinctions. Look at the Shiv Sena that targets non-Maharashtrians or the Lachit Sena that targeted non-Assamese,” he says.
This cultural chauvinism also explains why discrimination based on colour in India is limited not just to the blacks, but surfaces even against the whites sometimes. Julia Sullivan (name changed on request), an Australian postgraduate student at Pune University, feels it is because she represents a different culture. People from her apartment complex once came into her flat and accused her, point blank, of being a prostitute because she had many male friends and asked her to leave. “That’s the assumption most Indians have of a western girl,” she says, arguing that racism in India is “institutionalised” unlike in Australia where it is marginalised. “It’s normal for people here to ask somebody their origin even before their name,” she adds.
The difference between black and white doesn’t get as stark as it does for Diepiriye Kuku, a Black American doctoral student at the Delhi School of Economics who has a white partner. They were at a Nokia shop in Delhi once. As many as five store attendants fawned over his partner asking him what he needed, “but they completely ignored me,” says Kuku. “Not once did they make eye contact with me.” It is something that happens everyday to people like Kuku. They have to adapt their lives to either being denied an existence or being turned into objects of ridicule. So much so they have to look for ways to “hide”. “I liken it to being a woman in South Asia who has to put on a veil to avoid drawing attention,” adds Kuku. The ‘veil’, for him, is his iPod and sunglasses.
It gets worse for African women on Indian streets who have to face the supposed indignity of not just being black but also female. Maria Cleophas, a Ugandan student at Delhi’s Indraprastha College, just cannot get over how she is stared at so routinely and humiliatingly. “It’s extraordinary, beyond understanding. There have been times when people have groped me and even spat in my direction.” It’s a sentiment Murtala Musa, a Nigerian who has just graduated from Delhi’s Jamia Hamdard university, echoes. “People react as if I have suddenly sprung from the soil or have been dropped from the sky,” he says. “There have been times when people have touched my hair, thinking it’s either rubber or burnt.It’s almost as if they were asking me if I was human at all.”
Many, however, feel that the way we treat dark-skinned people isn’t racism but a reflection of how unaware a large section of Indians are about people from backgrounds different than theirs. Perhaps greater trade and cultural ties with Africa might change our attitude. At least that’s what happened between East Asia and India. “Indians realised that Europe and North America are not the only beacons of desirable values,” says Uberoi. And as Africa continues to develop in the next few years and India engages more proactively with the “dark continent”, perhaps the African too would one day not be seen as a strange species. That might be a better world where the next generation will grow up accultured and where the Black American Obama becomes the world’s most stylish man, naturally.
Original article
(Posted on July 1, 2009)
Diepiriye Kuku, Outlook (New Delhi), June 29, 2009
In spite of friendship and love in private spaces, the Delhi public literally stops and stares. It is harrowing to constantly have children and adults tease, taunt, pick, poke and peer at you from the corner of their eyes, denying their own humanity as well as mine. Their aggressive, crude curiosity threatens to dominate unless disarmed by kindness, or met with equal aggression.
Once I stood gazing at the giraffes at the Lucknow Zoo only to turn and see 50-odd families gawking at me rather than the exhibit. Parents abruptly withdrew infants that inquisitively wandered towards me.
I felt like an exotic African creature-cum-spectacle, stirring fear and awe. Even my attempts to beguile the public through simple greetings or smiles are often not reciprocated. Instead, the look of wonder swells as if this were all part of the act and we were all playing our parts.
Racism is never a personal experience. Racism in India is systematic and independent of the presence of foreigners of any hue. This climate permits and promotes this lawlessness and disdain for dark skin. Most Indian pop icons have light-damn-near-white skin. Several stars even promote skin-bleaching creams that promise to improve one’s popularity and career success. Matrimonial ads boast of fair, v. fair and v. very fair skin alongside foreign visas and advanced university degrees. Moreover, each time I visit one of Delhi’s clubhouses, I notice that I am the darkest person not wearing a work uniform. It’s unfair and ugly.
Discrimination in Delhi surpasses the denial of courtesy. I have been denied visas, apartments, entrance to discos, attentiveness, kindness and the benefit of doubt. Further, the lack of neighbourliness exceeds what locals describe as normal for a capital already known for its coldness.
My partner is white and I am black, facts of which the Indian public reminds us daily. Bank associates have denied me chai, while falling over to please my white friend. Mall shop attendants have denied me attentiveness, while mobbing my partner. Who knows what else is more quietly denied?
“An African has come,” a guard announced over the intercom as I showed up. Whites are afforded the luxury of their own names, but this careful attention to my presence was not new. ATM guards stand and salute my white friend, while one guard actually asked me why I had come to the bank machine as if I might have said that I was taking over his shift.
It is shocking that people wear liberalism as a sign of modernity, yet revert to ultraconservatism when actually faced with difference. Cyberbullies have threatened my life on my YouTube videos that capture local gawking and eve-teasing. I was even fired from an international school for talking about homosociality in Africa on YouTube, and addressing a class about homophobia against kids after a student called me a ‘fag’.
Outside of specific anchors of discourse such as Reservations, there is no consensus that discrimination is a redeemable social ill. This is the real issue with discrimination in India: her own citizens suffer and we are only encouraged to ignore situations that make us all feel powerless. Be it the mute-witnesses seeing racial difference for the first time, kids learning racism from their folks, or the blacks and northeasterners who feel victimised by the public, few operate from a position that believes in change.
Living in India was a childhood dream that deepened with my growing understanding of India and America’s unique, shared history of non-violent revolution. Yet, in most nations, the path of ending gender, race and class discrimination is unpaved. In India, this path is still rural and rocky as if this nation has not decided the road even worthy.It is a footpath that we are left to tread individually.
Original article
Comments
Saints preserve us! Do you mean we European-descended types actually DID NOT invent “racism”? Are you suggesting it isn’t a specifically Western malady, but also exists — nay, flourishes, according to your whining list of grievances — in India, one of the oldest civilizations in the world?
Perhaps it’s not nearly as much of a “learned, hate-filled construct” as many bleeding-heart liberals would like us to think. You’re right, though, about the Indian film stars. Light-skinned, beautiful people. It’s obvious what skin tones these unrepentant Indians prefer, isn’t it?
Perhaps if you’re so unhappy in India, you should go back to Africa — or wherever you came from.
India is racist? Is that possible? I thought only White people could be racist. The fact is that White people are the least racist, and this is why we’re being genocided all over the world; this and the fact that we’ve been inculcated with a collective sense of guilt for all the world’s problems by the controlled media. People who have a sense of their own peoplehood are the ones who are going to survive.
Wake up White people.
“Across the country, landlords slam doors when they see a prospective African tenant but drool for money when a white walks in. Foreigners’ Registration Offices cancel the visas of Africans arbitrarily and make paperwork easier for Americans and Europeans.”
I hate to tell the ones wringing their hands over this situation, but IT ISN’T RACISM AT PLAY! Maybe black crime and propensity for violence has something to do with it, eh?
And I also hate to tell them this situation isn’t just with the Indians. The whole world regards blacks in the same way.
My advise to Africans is to save themselves some grief and stay home.
See America, it can be done. I just hope it will not require the help of foreign labor to do the job of re-racializing our nation.
Look at the ease with which the supremacy of Alexander over Porus was accepted,” he says. But there is little doubt that the slave trade and colonialism instilled modern power equations into what was till then simply a matter of ‘aesthetics’. “It then became a marker of people trying to be like the white (the one who dominated),” says sociologist Ashis Nandy.
It is dangerous for Indians to blame us for their dysfunction. No one questions these sociologist so-called academics and are allowed to treat the West like a blank slate to blame colorism for. Not a healthy relationship.
It’s kind of funny (if terribly non-PC) that Australians feel much the same way about Indians as Indians feel about blacks. Except, most of us have the basic good manners not to stare at them, or poke and prod them. We don’t hate Indians but they are generally regarded as being unhygenic and untrustworthy.
“Living in India was a childhood dream that deepened with my growing understanding of India and America’s unique, shared history of non-violent revolution.”
An extraordinary statement. A ‘childhood dream’? More like a nightmare. Didn’t this person ever read about debt slavery, the caste system, the Untouchables, and the charming custom of burning wives alive on their husband’s funeral pyres? The ignorance of some people is amazing.
If Mr Kuku thinks it’s bad in India, he should spend a season or two in Jamaica. After experiencing their treatment of “chi-chi men” like him, he’ll gladly run back to India and the curious, groping children.
Check out what his CV at LinkedIn says about Mr Kuku (and, no, AR didn’t make the name up):
Diepiriye Kuku-Siemons
Writer/Researcher, Prejudice Reduction and Conflict Resolution Trainer
Columnist- “Gay and Lesbian” Page
Communications
Dance Instructor & Substitute Teacher
(Education Management industry)
Consultant-Gender Based Violence
(Non-Profit; 1001-5000 employees; Non-Profit Organization Management industry)
(Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Public Relations and Communications industry)
www.linkedin.com/ in/diepiriye
Once I stood gazing at the giraffes at the Lucknow Zoo only to turn and see 50-odd families gawking at me rather than the exhibit.
I’ve got an idea: build a successful (or even semi-successful) society in Africa that others want to come to, and then when Indians come over there, you can be the one to gawk and stare at them.
“Saints preserve us! Do you mean we European-descended types actually DID NOT invent “racism”?”
I’m as shocked as you are! Will all the books on Afro-centrism and social constructs have to be destroyed or only re-written to include a footnote about the anomaly of ‘racist’ Indians?
“When Krishna literally means dark,” says Mumbai-based mythology expert Devdutt Pattanaik, “why is he always portrayed in blue rather than in natural black?”
There are, of course, varying intensities of blue; anything from robins egg blue to royal blue. The bias and prejudice for blue skin over black skin seems to show a healthy sense of using a pleasant color over using an unpleasant color.
Let’s face facts. The color black has a natural association of invoking fear, evil, unknown, etc. It’s built into our brains likely from seeing day and night and all the associations of dark matter with rot and decay. No amount of social engineering is going to change that.
“…Most point to a colonial hangover that ingrained in us the idea that the ruler is always white.” A
This person in the second article deserves what he/she gets except for the denial of a visa within this part of the article. “Discrimination in Delhi surpasses the denial of courtesy. I have been denied visas, apartments, entrance to discos, attentiveness, kindness and the benefit of doubt. Further, the lack of neighbourliness exceeds what locals describe as normal for a capital already known for its coldness.
My partner is white and I am black, facts of which the Indian public reminds us daily. Bank associates have denied me chai, while falling over to please my white friend. Mall shop attendants have denied me attentiveness, while mobbing my partner. Who knows what else is more quietly denied?” The ultra-conservative behavior is just healthy and normal. And I am tired of people picking on northern Indians for this behavior. This is actually an area where Indians actually have some coherent and rational behavior.
In Malaysia, they call Indians ‘blacks’ if they want to insult them. I probably shouldn’t say that cause it might not be too helpful. On the plus side, however, maybe blacks and Indians can get along better now. Or is it racist to say that? That they’d get along better knowing that? In America I think it would be racist to suggest that.
I’m such a racist. In so many ways.
Then again, being white, I’m not sure it’s worth it to bend over backwards constantly trying to prove, one way or another, I’m not racist. The most you can build yourself up to in this way is to an even zero.
The Indians who went to Africa and the Caribbean to work alongside blacks for the British Empire did not want to bond with blacks. Unanimously they wanted to get closer to whites.
Contemporary Indians express their racism towards whites by wanting to absorb us into their much greater numbers. It would only take a couple of generations of immigration and miscegenation before Indian names and bloodlines were completely woven into white civilization, from Vienna to Vermont.
They could achieve the conquest of the Western world and the white race without racist guilt, because we will have allowed it.
The Indians look to the West and see civilisation, prosperity, decency. They look back on the British rule and see the rule of law, education, technology, medicine etc.
They look to Africa and see violence, poverty and degradation.
Its a no-brainer why they aspire towrads white and away from black.
So, basically India is racist. Really, fill in the blank there. India is (X) (a really bad thing).
Why not fill in both blanks?
X nation has a problem with X (a really bad thing), and surprise, surprise, it’s really the fault of white Europeans.
I imagine that’s quite satisfying for them.
The thing is, why do white nations play the exact same blame game, but blaming themselves?
The superiour class in india has always been the light coloured Brahmin caste,probably descendants of Alexanders army,but all over the world the accent is on white skin,the truth is that they envy the white man and are desperate to be him,because they can see what a mess thier own societies are,and they are revolted by themselves and thier primitive attitudes.
For all of the hero worship liberals heap upon Ghandi, the truth is, he thought blacks were an inferior race to Whites, and said so many times. He just wanted his race to be included with the Whites. It makes me laugh when I see liberals praising Ghandi without ever taking the time to find out the truth. But then again, I guess truth has never mattered to them.
Anybody who’s lived among Asians, especially East Asians, is aware that they’re extremely racist. They consider whites inferior, at least in a spiritual and cultural sense, and black Africans rather less than human.
Since when is it wrong to be a racist? Where is it written that we must love all races and embrace them as equals?
Love cannot be coerced and the races will never all be equal anymore than individuals will all be equal. Those who believe otherwise know nothing of history and the human condition…
Even if the preferential treatment were irrational, it would still be a good thing for the world, for it to continue.
The reason for this is that even though it would make things less fair, it still has the good effect of training people to deal with allowing other people to have liberty, and to do as they wish with their own property. It is wisest to allow people the right to be wrong, and the right to make experiments with things they own, and whom they choose to deal with. Situations where this type of thing occurs bring the issue to light.
It is more important to correct this problem of bad diplomacy that the liberal types have, than it is to make people more acurate or intelligent in their prejudices or opinions of various groups.
No suprise here at all.In colonial days in Africa the Indian
john wrote at 9:06 AM on July 2:
Not entirely true. I have been living in Asia now for almost 20 years and yes, there are some ignorant people that ARE racist, but for the most part, I have never, ever had any serious problems or had any hostilities directed towards me, but then again, I am younger and the people I meet everyday in my line of business always connected me with kind-hearted people.
I respectfully disagree with this idea about Indians. As a high school teacher I encounter second generation Indian-American kids all the time and find them to be completely assimilated as Americans. Even the ones who were born in India want so much too be part of the American culture while retaining the family values. The older generation holds on to the traditions just as my Sicilian grandparents held on to theirs. My parents continued with the good values such as honor and respect for elders. They moved away from the more medieval aspects of the culture and in the majority became good patriotic Americans.
The bottom line is that I personally never read about nor heard about anyone being mugged or intimidated in school by gangs of Indian teenagers. Neither have I ever seen large groups of Indian teenagers rampaging through the streets of any American city, breaking store window, looting, dragging non- Indians from their cars and beating and killing them.
It makes me laugh when I see liberals praising Ghandi without ever taking the time to find out the truth. But then again, I guess truth has never mattered to them. —-Kill Your TV
Arthur Jensen is a hero to many of us. Gandhi was a hero to him . So there are exceptions!
Reg wrote at 11:28 PM on July 1: Check out what his CV at LinkedIn says about Mr Kuku
Go to his blog at http://diepiriye.blogspot.com/ and at the upper right you can see images of him eating a banana and doing a nude dance. I wonder how many of the stares he gets may not be due to flamboyant behavior rather than due to his skin color???
Wulfstan says: “The present nightmare scenario in England is in great part due to this history of abuse,as the mass expulsion of Asian merchants from Uganda kick-started the islamic takeover of large parts of the UKs urban areas.”
That really is an ignorant statement because most of the Indians expelled from Uganda were HINDUS (and some Christians and Sikhs with a monority of muslims from the Ismaili sect - affiliated with Aga Khan and considered heretics by Sunni muslims and other Shias of which they form a part). The Islamic takeover in the UK is due to quick breeding muslim immigrants from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Somalia. The Somalis in particular refuse to work and 80% of them are on welfare. While on welfare they sit around and breed even more black African muslims until entire schools resemble Mogadishu.
Just a note on the staring. I lived in India as a child and was stared at every time I left the house (I am blond). Staring in India is commonplace and acceptable. My father has home movies of me at the Delhi Zoo; as soon as a family group walks past me, all the heads swivel around in unison to stare at me. Very funny.
When we would stop for a picnic in the Indian countryside on a car trip (no decent restaurants or bathrooms being available), within ten minutes there would be a circle of at least 10 Indians, materialized out of nowhere, standing quietly and staring at us.
So it wasn’t just his black skin; being different in any way is sufficient to trigger Indian staring behavior. It isn’t considered rude there. Ditto with asking extremely personal questions that Westerners wouldn’t ask.
I also remember the Indians being very color conscious. The nicest thing you could say about a new baby is “Isn’t she fair!”
“Anybody who’s lived among Asians, especially East Asians, is aware that they’re extremely racist. They consider whites inferior, at least in a spiritual and cultural sense, and black Africans rather less than human.”
Okay, please, let’s not lump in Japanese people with Indians. I don’t understand why so many posters on here do this. There is a world of difference between the two.
Japanese and Chinese etc… have created civilizations that are different but in a way equal to what whites have created. Indians have NOT. Where are you getting the idea that Indians see whites as inferior, and where in the article did it say anything like that?
I agree that the snobby creme of the crop Indians who move West are like that, but to say that Indians overall are that way is ridiculous. I would say, if anything, their racism towards us is more of an envy issue.
“The bottom line is that I personally never read about nor heard about anyone being mugged or intimidated in school by gangs of Indian teenagers. Neither have I ever seen large groups of Indian teenagers rampaging through the streets of any American city, breaking store window, looting, dragging non- Indians from their cars and beating and killing them.”
I don’t see how what you are saying here contradicts the article in any way. This is like comparing apples to oranges. Just because we get the cream of the crop Indians immigrating here, that doesn’t mean that the general stock back home acts just as civilized. If all Indians had the potential to be white then how come India isn’t just like Denmark?
“Anonymous” at5.41 stated quite correctly that the majority of
Upper caste Indians are descended from Sanskrit-speaking Aryan tribes. Their attitudes are codified in the Rig-Veda, the oldest Aryan literature in the world. The Aryans in the Rig-Veda clearly express their contempt for the darker inhabitants of India. Interestingly, swastika and Aryan are both Sanskrit words. It’s no surprise these attitudes have persisted for thousands of years in India. Some Indian Nationalists in WWII even allied themselves with Hitler, the most famous being Subhas C. Bose.
Most point to a colonial hangover that ingrained in us the idea that the ruler is always white.
A huge myth, but it is a popular one, especially among African Americans, who often consider their (India’s) favoritism for fairness, to be a part of the caste system. Few of them realize that the caste system is built upon the notion of reincarnation, and that those who are born into a poorer sect, or more lowly occupations, were placed there, because of sins from a past life. This is strictly a Hindu belief, and one that whites played no role in. Their preference for light skinned females, even predated colonialism. But alas, why confuse them with the facts? They will always look for an excuse to demonize whites.
Sometimes this obsession with fair skin can be fatal. Like in the tragic 2008 incident, when a woman was driven to suicide after her husband constantly harassed her for being dark.
And in all likelihood it was an arraigned marriage.
Japanese and Chinese etc… have created civilizations that are different but in a way equal to what whites have created. Indians have NOT. Where are you getting the idea that Indians see whites as inferior, and where in the article did it say anything like that?
I agree that the snobby creme of the crop Indians who move West are like that, but to say that Indians overall are that way is ridiculous. I would say, if anything, their racism towards us is more of an envy issue.
I have to disagree. Although I hate to generalize, in my experience whites are not a monolith group in the eyes of Indians, at least here in the U.S. These cream of the crop Indians are very comfortable with the urbane Northeastern or Californian whites whom they befriend in elite graduate schools, high tech /financial services companies and in professional Medical/Lawyer networks. But they distinctly treat Southern whites (particularly plain old working class folk from states like Alabama, Missisippi, Louisiana) and rural whites in general) with open contempt, making fun of their accents and viewing them as poorly educated, cannon fodder hicks. Indians are very classist; to them the Boston Brahmin whites are their fellow Brahmins while the Alabama redneck is the Shudra. While they wouldn’t much reservations if their daughter brought home an Ivy League educated white investment banker, they’d throw fits if her boyfriend was an Alabaman truck driver! I’m also pretty sure this classist Indian attitude extends to blacks; an urbane, educated Kofi Annan type would be embraced with open arms while the inner city rapster would be avoided like the plague.
Also, a note of correction. The urban Indus Valley civilization of Mohenjodaro and Harrapa predates Japanese civilization by more than a millenia. It’s as old as the Yangste Kiang/Hwang Ho civilization of China, only predates by the Egyptian and Mesopitamian/Sumerian civilizations of Iraq. The “ancientness” if you like of Asian civilizations perhaps explain part of their superiority complexes.
In 2007, IPL authorities allegedly asked two black cheerleaders of the King’s XI Punjab team to go back home
I remember well how the media jumped on this story, and also how the black cheerleaders from Britain acted as though it should provoke international outrage, but since it is well known that Indians favor light skinned Indian women, why did they expect them to embrace black women? It’s obvious the Indian officials thought they were hiring indigenous white British women. Biased? maybe, bigoted? perhaps. But worthy of international uproar? When white farmers have been slaughtered in Africa due to their race, and due to the fact that they are not indigenous to the region, and the media all but ignored it, it’s difficult to work myself into a lather, because a few cheerleaders had their egos bruised, in a country they were foreign to.
Gaurav Ahuja wrote at 12:46 AM on July 2:
———-
The usual roundabout insults at Whites. If there is a faint admittance of White prowess in certain areas, the insults have to be interjected. In point of fact, “darker” women are far more likely to be “whores”, prostitutes, than White women, as indicated by “various statistics”. All one has to do is visit India - or California - to see this. Considering the rather bizarre and wholly unnatural sexual practices condoned in Indian culture, the insults are not surprising, as the tactic used by most non-whites and those who hate Whites is to simply accuse Whites of what they themselves, the non-whites and their cohorts, actually do.
These cream of the crop Indians are very comfortable with the urbane Northeastern or Californian whites whom they befriend in elite graduate schools, high tech /financial services companies and in professional Medical/Lawyer networks. But they distinctly treat Southern whites (particularly plain old working class folk from states like Alabama, Missisippi, Louisiana) and rural whites in general) with open contempt
No surprise given the fact that Hinduism is all about the belief that a persons worth is valued by their station in life. Wealth is something you are born into, and rewarded with. Higher education is only possible for those born into the higher classes. There is no such thing as the concept of the nouveau riche in India, but in the Southern states of America you won’t find the underclasses sweeping human waste off the streets either. India’s Hindu culture is at heart, the antithesis of the American dream.
Anonymous at 10:53 am,
You have completely missed my point. I never said that the snobby cream of the crop Indians who move over here didn’t turn their noses down at whites. I was speaking of Indians in India as a whole. I highyly doubt that if an Alabama farmer were to walk around India, 85% of the people would be showing him disdain. Quite the opposite.
Secondly, you mention how old these civilizations are. What does that have to do with anything? Let’s compare the achievements of civilizations and you will see whites coming out on top, then the Chinese, and then the South Asian and Middle Eastern civilizations.
“The usual roundabout insults at Whites. If there is a faint admittance of White prowess in certain areas, the insults have to be interjected. In point of fact, “darker” women are far more likely to be “whores”, prostitutes, than White women, as indicated by “various statistics”. All one has to do is visit India - or California - to see this. Considering the rather bizarre and wholly unnatural sexual practices condoned in Indian culture, the insults are not surprising, as the tactic used by most non-whites and those who hate Whites is to simply accuse Whites of what they themselves, the non-whites and their cohorts, actually do. “
Exactly. I had a hard time understanding the point he was making here as well. What is with this garbage about “white women being whores”? That is news to me. It is almost as if he meant to say “white women are the most sought after”.
And I am really getting tired of people assuming that Indians and arabs are somehow “civilized” in their sexual habits. Why is it that these areas allow polygamy and the practice of child brides? Why does India have such a high rate of aids? Why do women in the Middle East have to be completely covered? Why do white women get harrassed when they go to either India or anywhere in the Middle East?
Why don’t people think stuff like this through instead of making blank assumptions? It is just the same as assuming that Indians and arabs are all brilliant people just because we have the brightest ones moving here. It is as if people don’t stop and question why their countries are the way they are.
Courtney,
Raj Patel,
If there is a high demand for white women in this area you are speaking of, then there are always going to be white women to fill the role. Please explain to me how this in any way means that “most white women are whores”?
“39 — Raj Patel wrote at 7:30 AM on July 4:
“At least 90% of the women featured committing thses paid-for sex acts are White Americans.”
1)This is America where the white population outnumbers every other group substantially. Of course whites will dominate every medium produced here. That’s not a secret only Einstein knew. Nor does it take a rocket scientist to understand it.
2)The other nations have porn throughout the internet; however, like everything else non-American, there’s going to be fewer numbers and less quality.
3)Men are going to view the prettiest women, if given a choice, and since Caucasian women are generally prettier than any other race they’re going to be in greater demand and also probably paid a lot more to attract them.
Actually, that’s what you’re really saying in your post, but I doubt you understand that.
It’s the lighter skinned, more Caucasian-looking women in India that are in greater demand. There’s no question of that.
Raj Patel is being disingenuous. While a lot of “video” pornography is still produced in the San Fernando Valley in CA (it’s actually declining, I’ll get to that shortly), pornography isn’t the question. It’s “whores” (prostitutes). Without argument it can be stated that non-white women have higher rates of prostitution than White women, including Asians. You can check with any Police Dept. or just visit SoCal and have a look. As for organized pornography, what “sells” the most are blondes, (white) brunettes and E Asian women according to the industry itself. That’s who’s hired. The industry itself is actually collapsing due to the internet. There’s “free porn” and now “home video” porn sites are popping up that emulate Youtube. It’s actually funny to see the porn kings, the gangsters, crying and complaining about decreasing sales.
There seems to be a problem among many Indian males and White women. The Indian men chase after White women (you can see this all the time in CA), but most of these women are not attracted to them. Hence the bitterness, the name-calling. It’s the same in Britain. Middle-Easterners are much the same way. In a sense, these groups are acting a lot like blacks who call White women who won’t date blacks “racist” or “ho’s”. Obfuscation and changing the subject cannot hide these facts.
Raj Patel wrote: Even you must know that the major industry of southern California in these de-industrialised times is the production, distribution and manufacture of all sorts of vile hard-core pornography on a truly monumental and epic scale. At least 90% of the women featured committing thses paid-for sex acts are White Americans. I don’t need to tell you that there literally billions upon billion of testorene fuelled Third World boys (and a good number of fully grown men), who have the major past-time of perusing these images whenever and where ever possible.
Of course third world boys want to see white female porn stars. White women are the most beautiful women in the world. The producers make what SELLS. If dark skinned women sold well they would take over the industry, but they don’t. Instead the dark skinned Indian women have to sell themselves on the side of the road for a few coins, no one will pay to watch them online.
HIV is turning into an epidemic in India due to the number of poor women and CHILDREN that have unprotected sex for a few cents. Selling children into slavery, brothels all over, ignorant truck drivers having unprotected sex left and right and then passing the disease along to their innocent wives, and even contaminating their future unborn children. It is disgusting.
That is NOT a problem in White American, we have more common sense and generally understand the concept of marital fidelity.
Sahara Knite, Sunny Leone, Nadia Nyce, Jayde, Priya Rai, I could on and on about the Indian women in the lower tiers of the adult industry (All of whom are drug-free professionals from stable families, and not from a deprived background of a sociopathic gallery of sexual deviancy and other horros that produces a Holmes ore Jameson) to which I am linked professionally and socially. I will state that most of our indian performers have been Gujarati women, of which Patel, and it is commonly known among Indians that the pathological obsession with money leads Gujarati females into performing in the adult industry.
The obsession with”goris” dates back thousands of years ago to the first Aryan penetration, perpetrated by landless males from Russian and East Germanic Goth tribes who braved the Hindu Kush
With Aryan females at a supply and demand premium and utterly inaccessible to the Australoid Dravidians (Though less so to stone-age Persian populations that were occupying North India prior to the Aryan arrival, needless to say, Gori sexuality was viewed as something divine both by the single Aryan males who drifted away from the Northern populations and the Dravidians.
This pattern continued into the era of English colonialism, because settlement and exploration is a male endeavor.
North Indians are in a constant dilemmia-they are aware that they are descended from ancient roaming white Caucasoids,but they loathe goras and hate to acknowledge this, save for some of the Brahmins who have access to the country club.
South Indians are masters at subterfuge and loathe North Indians and wish they would decamp back to the steppes of Russia or East Germany from which they originated, and they long ago expelled the Brahmins from Kerela.
You have completely missed my point. I never said that the snobby cream of the crop Indians who move over here didn’t turn their noses down at whites. I was speaking of Indians in India as a whole. I highyly doubt that if an Alabama farmer were to walk around India, 85% of the people would be showing him disdain. Quite the opposite.
An Alabaman farmer will probably never make it to Boston, let alone Bombay, so let’s avoid hypotheticals! It’s not just Indians who view Southern/Rural/Working class whites with disdain, this phenomenon is very prevalent in Europe too. Let’s just face the obvious; the elite of all races prefer to hang out with fellow elites of any race rather than the peasants of their own but I’m digressing here. My only point is educated Indians are very elitist and as mentioned by another poster, measure their status on where they of their children end up in colllege or achieve in professional circles. I don’t know what to really make of this, on one hand I can see why it’s desirable to aspire to go to elite universities like Harvard /Stanford rather bottom of the barrel uncompetitive ones like the University of Alabama/Mississippi; on the other hand excessive classism is arguably un-American and contrary to the ideals egalitarian democracy.
corrections: in my previous post I was unclear about the nature of the name Patel, it is Gujarati. My apologies for the vagueries and mispellings of that last post everyone.
As far as Indian women participating in the porn business are concerned, there are more every day. None are your typical junkie ex-strippers or coke fiends like Holmes or Jameson, but rather they are clear-minded professionals from the middle and lower Indian castes (None yet are Brahmins)of North India. Sunny Leone is most prominent, and is a Sikh (Descended from Eurasian Sythian merceneries out of the Soviet territories and of a warlike inclination that asserts itself in Indo-Canada’s high-crime rate; they are generally regarded as dim and violent warriors and farmers, and Indians consider them inferior because of their white origins and good only for physical labor).
South India is a de facto separatist state due to these racial divisions between the mixed-breed Northerners and Australoid South, and most violently asserts itself in the Singhalese-Tamil war of Sri Lanka.
Generally, North Indians are primitive and violent invaders of greater strength and mental toughness, while the Keralite Nairs and Tamils are typical Australoids of appearance and genes (They have the same reaction to alcohol, which is to say it renders them senseless) though they are traditionally matriarchally ruled society of childlike mathmatical geniuses of little strength or courage.
The violently hot-tempered North Indians are thought by Southerners to be the violent and uncouth bastards of ancient Eurasian looters (A basic fact) while the North Indians consider the Southerners to be effiminate pathologically lying cowards of great physical ugliness.
The ongoing dialogue between Courtney and the various Indian males who troll this site reflects their seething anger and obsession with forbidden “gori” and their hopeless desire to possess a Caucasians woman, which has been embedded in their psyche for thousand of years since the Aryan settlement. (Unlike, say, African-Americans or East Asians they are somewhat concerned with the white status quo because their economic livilihood is predicated on infiltrating other societies such as the Arab Gulf States or the UK.
Indians are less indifferent than blacks or Asians to goras, which is why they appear on this site more frequently, and in the years and decades to come the socioeconomic wars of greatest intensity will not be between Caucasians and East Asians or African-Americans, but between Caucasians and Indians, who slavishly imitate us.
Countries have every right to be “racist”.
That said, Indians are fair game for “racism” abroad.
Western Whites and black Africans may be subservient to Indians, but in places like the Middle East, Eastern Europe and Russia, and Malaysia, Indians face about the same (if not worse) discrimination that they normally reserve for blacks in their home country.
Perhaps this is a form of what their religion calls “karma”?
I have travelled in Central and South India and I got the general impression that ‘white’ people tend to get preferential treatment and also extra harrassment.
This may be due to prehistoric factors such as the apparent fact that the lighter skinned people are perceived as the conquering and domiant class and the darker skinned people are perceived as the defeated and subservient class.
Persons therefore wanting upward mobility seek to marry and/or mate with the lighter skinned folk.
That’s the way it seems to me at this time.
Even the Indians this post here would not disagree that Brahmins are essentially protectorates of white cultural mores-the Rig Vedics reflect this-in India.
Your average North Indian forward caste Aryan mix regards the average Dravidian South Indian with a greater a degree of distaste than anyone here, because they have been forced to live amongst them.
For all the talk of the glories of Harrapan civilization (Math, the zero) by the descendents of Conan the Barbarians who have now excluded them for thousands of years, the Dravidians are esssentially an alcoholism-prone, overpopulating, impulsive offshoot of the Australoid species that the North Indians regard with disgust.
In the South, the Aryans simply fled or were slaughtered, although Syrian Christians occupy some similar position in the social stratum of the departed.
The poor Africans. Have we forgotten that the Indians were run out of practically every African country because the potentate thought the Indians were too successful? Why do Africans think they have a right to be anywhere they want, and that place is typically productive and civilized. Unlike their own country.
“An Alabaman farmer will probably never make it to Boston, let alone Bombay, so let’s avoid hypotheticals! It’s not just Indians who view Southern/Rural/Working class whites with disdain, this phenomenon is very prevalent in Europe too. Let’s just face the obvious; the elite of all races prefer to hang out with fellow elites of any race rather than the peasants of their own but I’m digressing here. My only point is educated Indians are very elitist and as mentioned by another poster, measure their status on where they of their children end up in colllege or achieve in professional circles. I don’t know what to really make of this, on one hand I can see why it’s desirable to aspire to go to elite universities like Harvard /Stanford rather bottom of the barrel uncompetitive ones like the University of Alabama/Mississippi; on the other hand excessive classism is arguably un-American and contrary to the ideals egalitarian democracy.”
Once again you are dodging my main point. Where am I disagreeing with you when compairing the elites of all societies? In fact, in my original post I had already hit the nail on the head for that argument, but then you somehow looked over that in your original response which is why we are still discussing this.
I don’t see any evidence whatsoever that white people are looked down on in India AS A WHOLE (most people in India are NOT upperclass elites). That was my original point. The article here even supports my argument. White people are admired (or envied) while blacks are looked down on.
And it seems to me that you have something against white Southerners. I find it funny that so many white Northerners are flocking South but not the other way around. Us Southerners, quite frankly, don’t want to have anything to do with Northerners. But Northerners seem to be obsessed with us.
How are Western Whites subservient to Indians?
“In the South, the Aryans simply fled [fled what?] or were slaughtered [by whom], although Syrian Christians occupy some similar position [??] in the social stratum of the departed.”
“in the years and decades to come the socioeconomic wars of greatest intensity will not be between Caucasians and East Asians or African-Americans, but between Caucasians and Indians, who slavishly imitate us.”
I’m sorry to say, but not being highly familiar with the social intricacies of India, much of Anonymous’ posts (above) totally escaped me. I wish he could have been more explicit and less opaque.
You have completely missed my point. I never said that the snobby cream of the crop Indians who move over here didn’t turn their noses down at whites. I was speaking of Indians in India as a whole. I highyly doubt that if an Alabama farmer were to walk around India, 85% of the people would be showing him disdain. Quite the opposite.
Rubbish. I’ve been to India under many different circumstances (budget tourist and business visitor) and the only whites that get the royal red carpet treatment are the ones with fat corporate expense accounts, or the ones that otherwise offer lucrative business opportunities to Indian sub-contractors. Lower end, back-packing budget travelers (and most whites fall into this category) are treated as dirty degenerates by most Indians; often denied entry to luxury hotels or high-end restaurants on the flimsiest of all excuses (dress code being the most common). Furthermore, whites (and I believe other foreigners) are legally charged a hefty premium by the airlines, hotels, railways and museums for no other reason that just being non-Indian. Whites also have to endure surly immigration officers, arrogant rip-off artists and indifferent law enforcement officials when traveling across the country. And besides the occasional newspaper editor, nobody really seems to care about the trials and tribulations faced by foreign visitors. And Indian girls avoid white men like the plague…
Anonymous wrote at 4:29 PM on July 5: Your average North Indian forward caste Aryan mix regards the average Dravidian South Indian with a greater a degree of distaste than anyone here, because they have been forced to live amongst them.
Actually, whites are being FORCED more and more, in more white countries, to live among these people via deliberately anti-white immigration policies. The Brahmins were never “forced” to live among the Dravidians.
“The ongoing dialogue between Courtney and the various Indian males who troll this site reflects their seething anger and obsession with forbidden “gori” and their hopeless desire to possess a Caucasians woman, which has been embedded in their psyche for thousand of years since the Aryan settlement.”
Or, you know, it could be the fact that she relentlessly goes out of her way to vilify an entire group of people, even though there are many who are productive members of society. She is quite frankly obnoxious and annoying. Either that, or the hopeless desire to possess a “Caucasians” woman. Take your pick.
“An Alabaman farmer will probably never make it to Boston, let alone Bombay, so let’s avoid hypotheticals!”
Not so. Today, there are many large farms that do quite well, in Alabama and elsewhere. Often, many of these bigger farms get government subsidies. Gone are the days where rural peoples never travel. Most all Alabama, etc. farmers have the internet and today many, many rural people in Alabama and elsewhere travel to other countries. People seem to have this outdated notion that rural peoples, especially in the South, are all hicks who never travel and this is just not true. Some of the smartest and most well read and knowledgeable people I’ve know are rural.
“I can see why it’s desirable to aspire to go to elite universities like Harvard /Stanford rather bottom of the barrel uncompetitive ones like the University of Alabama/Mississippi”
The University of Mississippi “Ole Miss” or the U.of Alabama are good schools comparable to other state universities. Now of course no state university is in the same league as the ivy leagues. Personally, I feel that these huge overpriced ivy league schools don’t necessarily always offer a better education, one is just paying for the “name” and making contacts with other elites for when they get out.
Anonymous says: I apologize for being opaque. Due to a Caucasian inclination to Malria and inability to endure the tropics of South India, below the cow belt the Aryans simply dared not intrude in the rainforests held by the Dravidians.
India is probably the site of the world’s original race-war, between White Eurasian males of the Conan the Barbarian mold and Australoids. These males married with a stone age Persian group that was occupying North India, but NOT with Dravidians.
Nationalist-Communist Kerela the Dravidians drove away the Aryans Brahmin settlers from Kerela, although in the neighboring Tamil Nadu state a few Brahmin families remain.
Though Brahmins loathe Anglo-Saxons and Celts as a rule because of colonialism, they due recognize some affinity with White Russians, Germans and Scandinavians due to an ancient Indo-European link brahminism is basically “acting white” according to the ancient Rig Vedic texts-dignity, behavioral restraint, morality, an emphaisis on personal conduct, chasity.
The Dravidian base of the pyramaid represented today by the Nair caste are an impulsively violent, sex-crazed, stoneage remnant of Australoid settlers. They may have had a better diet and a more intricate civilization than the Aryan males who arrived in the North, but they nevertheless resemble Australoids in most facets of temper and behavior and thus they occupy a position in North India that is similar to that of Aboriginals in contemporary Australia.
IT is located in the South because the Dravbdians possess an undeniable prowess with math…and little else. The North Brahmins, like the German, Russian and Eastern European populations with which they share some genetic affinity, are more skilled at reasoning and verbal “outside the box” tasks.
Hence, prior to IT, the South was backwater of modern-day cannibals.
TO INDIAN MALE TROLL:
As a Russian descended pure Aryan who produces mature films ON Indian soil, how much of what I have stated about your history is true?
I write this from India.
Contrary to vilifying Indians, I actually have a great degree of admiration for the Brahmin-descended members of those original Aryan migrants who troll this site in outrage because while they are now unassimilable muluttos to both the Dravidian and whites of today, it was their brave ancestors who managaed to gang a foothold in India amongst utterly savage but nevertheless cunning Dravidian tribes of cannibals who often slaughtered enemies in bizarre rituals continuing to this day.
Having lived amongst Dravidians in South India, I would state to any member of any other ethnic group that peruses this site that they are a lethal genetic mix of low cunning, inclination to patholical lying, amoralism, impulsive alcohol prone violence and child sexual abuse that Arabs regard as a bane in the Gulf states.
Malbaris in particular, long employed as office factotums by Arabs, are legendary in the Gulf for stealing, embezzling and assorted cons.
The North Indians and Brahmiins avoid them like a plague and gravitate towards the orbit Europeans due to an ancient shared Indo-European affinity…you will rarely see Dravidians of the South and North Indian Aryan-Persian-Sythian mixes interacted socioeconomically anywhere outside of India.
No North Indian male (Most Brahmins or Christians) trolling this site would call me a complete liar.
57 Anon: You might be underrating your state’s university. I’ve not taken any kind of statistically valid survey, but my impression of the ivy league graduates I’ve met, is that the schools choose their students carefully for academic ability, and let them slide through, ensuring only that they get a good dose of multiculturalism. I’ve come to wonder if the typical student is really there as a sort of “extra”, smart kids to fill in the background for the future Senators on campus. What they get for their tuition is a full color college experience with all the bells and whistles, and automatic admission to a grad school somewhere.
This may not apply to the science departments.
The University of Mississippi “Ole Miss” or the U.of Alabama are good schools comparable to other state universities. Now of course no state university is in the same league as the ivy leagues. Personally, I feel that these huge overpriced ivy league schools don’t necessarily always offer a better education, one is just paying for the “name” and making contacts with other elites for when they get out.
Really? Looking through the US News and World report. it is blatantly obvious that Ole Miss and University of Alabama are third rate non-competitive colleges which accept 80% of all applicants! Harvard accepts less than 10% by way of comparison. And it is disengenous to say that these southern state schools are comparable to other state universities. University of California-Berkeley, and the University of Michigan Ann Arbor are among America’s most competitive universities that command tremendous respect globally in both academic and professional circles.
For the unintitiated goras, I can break down Indian racial/societal castes this way:
Brahmins….descended from Indo-European settlers, the selection process of traversing the Hindu Kush and settling the ganges river eliminated the weaker ones and they are indeed vestiges of a fairly powerful branch of the Caucasoid subspecies, though they intermarried with earlier occupants (Probably Persian and Baloch tribes as oppose to Dravidians).
Gujaratic Khashtriyas merchant class…descended from Khazars, possibly an ancient link with Ashkenazi populations and a similar tendency to gifted business practices that transform them into market-dominant minorites.
Sikhs/Jatts/Rajputs…Their ancestors were vicious Eurasian Sythian tribes with possible Hun admixture from the steppes of West Siberia or perhaps the taiga forests of Russia. They are dim, fearless, violent and very good fighters. In India they make up the armed forces and farmers. They are thought to be stupid by other Indians, though physically intimidating. In Canada their tendency towards impulsive acts of violence and tolerance for pain are topping the homicide rates of the inner cities.
Pakistanis…tend to be stupid, emotional, and sullen of temperment. Converted in mass from the lower castes, save for Phatans, of probably Central Asian derivation.
Dravidians…the “original” inhabitants of India, similar to Australoids. They have great mathmatical and left-brained abilities to the point of idiocy, another words they are semi-autistic and cannot think outside of the box. Also impractical. They are physically weak, though capable of impulsive violence, particular under the influence of alcohol, which they lack the North Indian’s Caucasian metabolism to cope with. At night, South Indian cities become similar to Indian or Aboriginal reservations. Though cowardly, they are terrible abusers of women and children, whom they often molest.
And there are other tribes as well in India, completely outside the Hindu scheduled castes.
As for their perceptions of white people:
Indian Men think white women are both free, unobtainable and a prize. The Goan economy runs on this fixation.
White men are to Indian women what the myths of African-Americans are to whites-which is to say that Caucasians are better-endowed in every physical sense and more masculine. These things are true, typically, of course.
Indian male troll wrote: Or, you know, it could be the fact that she relentlessly goes out of her way to vilify an entire group of people, even though there are many who are productive members of society. She is quite frankly obnoxious and annoying. Either that, or the hopeless desire to possess a “Caucasians” woman. Take your pick.
Or it could be that she is a white woman that KNOWS how Indian males behave because she has had experience with it. I am a white female and I must say I have been shocked at the inappropriate sexual behavior of virtually EVERY SINGLE Indian male I have ever met (born in India).
Even in the workplace they often have no sense. In one case a married Indian coworker was harassing one of my female clients so much via the phone calls that the head of security at her company called to speak with our CEO about it. I had complained about it, he had been warned repeatedly to leave the girl alone,(she was 20 years younger than him and lived in another state, she made the mistake of being polite) yet he continued to harass her. When he wasn’t harassing clients he was surfing dating sites while his wife had a REAL job and supported him as well as their kids.
From what I have seen, that is typical Indian male behavior. They are very much like blacks when it comes to fixating on sex and making highly inappropriate overtures.
“Why do Africans think they have a right to be anywhere they want, and that place is typically productive and civilized. Unlike their own country.”
Do you consider India a “typically productive and civilized country”? Compared to who?
“Rubbish. I’ve been to India under many different circumstances (budget tourist and business visitor) and the only whites that get the royal red carpet treatment are the ones with fat corporate expense accounts, or the ones that otherwise offer lucrative business opportunities to Indian sub-contractors. Lower end, back-packing budget travelers (and most whites fall into this category) are treated as dirty degenerates by most Indians; often denied entry to luxury hotels or high-end restaurants on the flimsiest of all excuses (dress code being the most common). Furthermore, whites (and I believe other foreigners) are legally charged a hefty premium by the airlines, hotels, railways and museums for no other reason that just being non-Indian. Whites also have to endure surly immigration officers, arrogant rip-off artists and indifferent law enforcement officials when traveling across the country. And besides the occasional newspaper editor, nobody really seems to care about the trials and tribulations faced by foreign visitors. And Indian girls avoid white men like the plague…”
But once again, where does this racism come from? This article makes it pretty clear how Indians view white skin (positively) and black skin (negatively). Are you and those agreeing with you completely disregarding what this article is saying? Is the racism shown towards whites perhaps from envy? There is no way that it is from disdain. Do you actually think they view whites the same way they do blacks? That is my whole point.
And another point I would like to make is that, you, like the other poster, are giving specific examples of how upper class Indians view whites. This doesn’t encompass ALL or MOST Indians. You are specifically talking about “luxury hotels” and “high-end restaurants” in your post, are you not?
I’ll tell you what. If I decide to go and live in India or even travel there for whatever reason, I will respect the culture. But you know what? I am in the United States of America right now. My ancestors built this nation and made it great. I can say whatever I want to about Indians in my own country. Fair enough? And it is not as if I am generalizing. I am only speaking the truth. If you don’t like what I am saying, you don’t have to hang around this website.
No North Indian male (Most Brahmins or Christians) trolling this site would call me a complete liar.
I’m a North Indian male and while I wouldn’t call you a compulsive liar, I really do think you need some serious psychiatric help, man! Even the most ardent WN on this site wouldn’t make the outrageous and incoherent claims that you are making (Anonymous posts 58, 59, & 60). Are you sniffing something or are you just plain retarded? You’re so delusional, that I do in fact find you entertainingly funny. So keep posting. Anyways, good luck on your Indian PORN escapade (although with the chemicals I suspect you’ve already injected into your body, I don’t think you will need it).
Even in the workplace they often have no sense. In one case a married Indian coworker was harassing one of my female clients so much via the phone calls that the head of security at her company called to speak with our CEO about it. I had complained about it, he had been warned repeatedly to leave the girl alone,(she was 20 years younger than him and lived in another state, she made the mistake of being polite) yet he continued to harass her. When he wasn’t harassing clients he was surfing dating sites while his wife had a REAL job and supported him as well as their kids.
From what I have seen, that is typical Indian male behavior. They are very much like blacks when it comes to fixating on sex and making highly inappropriate overtures
And one person (assuming this is true of course!) represents an adequate representative sample to predict the behavior of a nation of 1.1 billion people. Are you dumb or plain retarded?
And one person (assuming this is true of course!) represents an adequate representative sample to predict the behavior of a nation of 1.1 billion people. Are you dumb or plain retarded?
She’s probably an Alabama or Ole Miss grad. In Statistics!
Anonymous responds to post 66 by ABCD:
I have spent much more time in India as a filmmaker than your average ABCD Brahmin troll posting our site from his New Jersey basement and I am merely Illuminating my fellow Caucasoids to the reality of North and South India’s racial divide.
And yes, mature films featuring Indian female performers are the latest, greatest thing going on in India right now due to the fact that your society is both matriarchal and machismo-ridden and Indian males in general display a lechery and obsession with carnal deviancy that would shock a San Fernando adult worker (It does).
So Gosh Bless you, you make myself and Sunny Leone money…
Anonymous wrote: And one person (assuming this is true of course!) represents an adequate representative sample to predict the behavior of a nation of 1.1 billion people. Are you dumb or plain retarded?
I believe the AIDS statistics in India prove the point. Another lovely new trend among the Indian middle class is swinging (i.e. wife swapping). What makes it particularly hidious when Indians practice it is the fact they already got their wives through arranged marriages, and then they try to force their wives to sleep with other men too? Ugh. Disgusting. It is bad enough among “free” populations, but for cultures that already treat women like chattel it is truly horrendous.
The Indian Times carries an article about how “cool and hip” it is to force your wife/servant into this fun new lifestyle:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3111386.cms
I’ll tell you what. If I decide to go and live in India or even travel there for whatever reason, I will respect the culture. But you know what? I am in the United States of America right now. My ancestors built this nation and made it great. I can say whatever I want to about Indians in my own country. Fair enough? And it is not as if I am generalizing. I am only speaking the truth. If you don’t like what I am saying, you don’t have to hang around this website.
The ultimate defense of a low IQ type who cannot argue rationally.
And another point I would like to make is that, you, like the other poster, are giving specific examples of how upper class Indians view whites. This doesn’t encompass ALL or MOST Indians. You are specifically talking about “luxury hotels” and “high-end restaurants” in your post, are you not?
Not really if you do indeed read my posts carefully. In fact, the perpetrators of the most odious type of racism towards whites (excludes of course the few business visitors) are goverment officials (immigration clerks, policemen) and petty street peddlers; hardly the cream of Indian society. Where does this come from? One can only speculate but given that the majority of Westerners in India follow the hippie lifestyle with it’s focus on drugs, cheap sex, and alcohol; most Indians view them as worthless degenerates at best and a complete nuisance more generally. No doubt we have a good deal to learn from Asians on portrying a dignified image when traveling abroad. In contrast, in the UK at least, Indian visitors are afforded the utmost respect and courtesy, reflecting overwhelmingly perhaps, their decent and dignified behavior.
62 Anon: I don’t know much about the academic merits of Southern universities, but I do know something about the University of California, Berkeley. UCLA and Berkeley are the top public universities in a (once?) very wealthy state, with international reputations for outstanding research and poor teaching. Unlike most state schools, they draw their students from all over the country and the world, first class grinds reaching for ivy league prestige at state school prices. It is not reasonable to compare the Southern schools to those kind of places. Compare them instead to the other campuses of the U of California, they’ve got a bunch of them. How does Ole Miss stack up to UC Santa Barbara or UC Riverside? If you want to slam the South, be fair. You wouldn’t denigrate Oberlin by comparing their football team to Notre Dame, would you?
And don’t cite figures from U.S. News and World Report. Colleges manipulate their acceptance rates as a marketing ploy, in direct response to the USN&WR ratings. They send out lots of invitations to high school seniors, and charge the kids to process the application, all the while knowing that a majority have no chance of admittance. “Education” is a business, and marketing comes second only to leftist indoctrination in its hierarchy of values.
Anonymous states:
Those who gravitate to Western budget travellers are the sort of Indians who rape drugged fifteen year olds such as Keeling; this summarizes the Indian position on “goris” entirely.
Indians of course are accurate in viewing most white hippies roaming their soil as degenerates, which most are natch, though the Isreali soldiers on leave are slightly more palatable.
Nevertheless, this not begin to approach the terrible affect that the exodus of lower-cast Indians to the UK has taken on that society, or that of the violent and stupid Sikhs to Canada but it approaches that of the Mariel Boatlift and therefore genocide, and trust me my fellow goras, that is the paradox of Indian male thinking…Destroy the gora’s societies while leeching off of them.
Many Indian women seek out white men in the West simply because of the way Indian males are genetically wired: with a high and often deviant sex drive, in abusiveness, in self-centerdness and usually a generally sort of lack of responsibility.
Anonymous responds to poster 66:
The baseless remarks of Indian male troll is regards to my posts (“retarded”, “injecting drugs”) is a typical one: when confronted with truth the Indian reaction is one of bombastic accusations and senseless emotional overreacting…which is what, genetically speaking, is their disadvantage, they have infantile emotional responses.
Take a lesson from this visiting Indian male trolls, their behavior on this site is a good indicator of their overall temperment.
God help us if Jindal is elected in 2012, as Kal Penn and the other Indian Americans creeping are attempting to facilitate.
Ironically, in Kenya, where the current Chief’s father was raised, the small Gujarati mercantile community kept the Africans in numbing poverty.
“Are you dumb or plain retarded?”
“The ultimate defense of a low IQ type who cannot argue rationally.”
“She’s probably an Alabama or Ole Miss grad. In Statistics!”
Not only this, but when they actually are making “polite” arguments , the content of what they are saying isn’t making any sense whatsoever. There is obviously an anti-white, and in some cases, and anti-Southern-white bent to their arguments.
One poster above claims that whites make fools of themselves while in India while Indians act properly in Great Britain. Give me a break.
The bottom line here is that India is a third world country and Western nations ARE NOT. Indians are immigrating West. White people aren’t immigrating to India. Yet, there seem to be some posters on here who want to claim that Indians have things more together than whites do.
As I said, there is obviously a very irrational anti-white hatred going on on here. I honestly don’t think it is worth it to waste our time arguing with these people anymore.
In any case, they can whine all they want. The articles on here speak for themselves. We are the ones with facts on our side; not them.
“Are you dumb or plain retarded?”
The above, folks, is the voice of our opposition on here. They resort to ad hominen attacks because they don’t have adequate arguments. — Courtney
Yes, I find his strategy highly ironic, if not downright amusing. He accuses her of being unable to “argue rationally”, and then turns around and resorts to ad hominem attacks himself — the ultimate non-rational form of “argument” when all else has failed!
I must also note that — despite repeated references to extraordinary mathematical ability (among Dravidians)— that odd, isolated talent apparently does not include an affinity for logic! This notable indifference to logic is, btw, quite characteristic of Third World mentality everywhere.
“The ultimate defense of a low IQ type who cannot argue rationally.”
“She’s probably an Alabama or Ole Miss grad. In Statistics!”
Not only this, but when they actually are making “polite” arguments , the content of what they are saying isn’t making any sense whatsoever. There is obviously an anti-white, and in some cases, and anti-Southern-white bent to their arguments.
In all fairness; the WN woman did try draw inference from one alledged (sounds a little too fictional but we’ll give her the benefit of the doubt) incident and extrapolate it to predict a pattern of behavior applicable to an entire nation. Now, one doesn’t need to be a statistician to understand the weakness of her argument, common sense will in most cases suffice. Yeah, we could be politically correct and call her “intellectually challenged” or any other such sugar coated terms, but who are we trying to kid?
Regarding universities in the deep South, we can pretend that places like Ole Miss and Alabama are quality institutions which instill an education (if not connections) comparable to the Ivy league in terms of academic rigor but by every objective measure of sholastoc rigor (SAT scores, average GPA’s, per capita research publications, academic citations) we know that this is not the case. In fact, based on rankings of the above mentioned criteria, the deep South remains the nations backwater of higher learning with few if any first tier universities.
Your third rant about the British guy’s experiences in India surprised me the most. He seemed to imply that on average Indians treat Westerners more callously than the other way around; a view I thought you might support. While I do not have any ways to pass judgement in the veracity of his claims, I can understand that if one appears respectable (dress, manners, professional polish) one is treated with respect in foreign environs. From that perspective, it doesn’t duprise me that a hippy toursit would more likely encounter discrimination in foreign lands than s business visitor. Most Indians would agree that they are treated very well in modern America, given that most of them are highly educated professionals and are perceived that way, it doesn’t at all surprise me. On the other hand, the average Westerner in Asia is a low budget tourist in search of cheap alcohol, and often contraband drugs and illicit sex. It doesn’t surprise me that because of this (and not simply because they’re white) they encounter problems with the locals, often drawing contempt and hostility.
“I must also note that — despite repeated references to extraordinary mathematical ability (among Dravidians)— that odd, isolated talent apparently does not include an affinity for logic! This notable indifference to logic is, btw, quite characteristic of Third World mentality everywhere.”
Very good point.
“Regarding universities in the deep South, we can pretend that places like Ole Miss and Alabama are quality institutions which instill an education (if not connections) comparable to the Ivy league in terms of academic rigor but by every objective measure of sholastoc rigor (SAT scores, average GPA’s, per capita research publications, academic citations) we know that this is not the case. In fact, based on rankings of the above mentioned criteria, the deep South remains the nations backwater of higher learning with few if any first tier universities.”
I don’t see too many young people going North to do anything. Everyone is coming South. Why is that? I would have more respect for Northerners if you all would respect us after moving down here to live with us. Southerners don’t want to have anything to do with Northerners. We stay put. Northerners keep coming down here, but yet they still disrespect us.
So, in other words, your argument is irrelevant to me.
“In all fairness; the WN woman did try draw inference from one alledged (sounds a little too fictional but we’ll give her the benefit of the doubt) incident and extrapolate it to predict a pattern of behavior applicable to an entire nation. Now, one doesn’t need to be a statistician to understand the weakness of her argument, common sense will in most cases suffice. Yeah, we could be politically correct and call her “intellectually challenged” or any other such sugar coated terms, but who are we trying to kid?”
You are only focusing on what you want to focus on. She as well as many others above have been giving numerous accounts all along on how Indians act in our societies.
Yet you want to keep implying that they come over here and act civilized while we go over there and make fools of ourselves. The overall consensus I get on this website is that white people overall don’t think too highly of Indians in their societies. Why is that? On the other hand, Indians seem to like us, otherwise they wouldn’t be coming here and living.
Courtney, I don’t think it’s a case of Indians or any other group of non-whites liking whites. They like our countries because they aren’t hell holes like their native lands and more importantly, because they can take advantage of the anti-white racial spoils system in place in the US, GB, Australia, etc. As for Indians acting “properly” - not in large groups. They are quite aggressive and disruptive in GB, including the Hindus, as are most other non-whites in white countries. They all know on some level that the ‘law’, meaning our bought off / blackmailed governments, are behind them, and that whites will be made the bad-guy, the one that ‘started’ the trouble no matter what happens.
Facing any sort of social ill in one’s own society is rarely an easy and pain-free path. That parts of my CV are posted here in addition to many of the comments deflecting attention away from India and India’s own social ills attests to this pain. Many would like to portray me as flamboyant while they squash their own creativity and hide their true selves. Imagine the creative, flamboyant kids growing up around them. It’s the same sort of fear of difference that causes these knee-JERK reactions to raising these issues. Worse, several comments have suggested just leaving India, which of course in no way absolves these social ills.
Anyhow the caste system has persisted for millennia, so regardless of how many fingers are pointed at foreigners, multiple centuries of indigenous social oppression- based on gender, occupation and race- all rest in India’s hands. It’s easy to pick on someone else; checking out the man or woman in the mirror is a far greater challenge- it is also more rewarding.
