Blacks in Denver Are ‘All Over the Place’
| More news stories on Black Culture |
|---|
Zenitha Prince, Afro (Baltimore), August 24, 2008
{snip}
The gentrification of Five Points and the demographic trends in Denver as a whole is a study in integration, a social phenomenon often viewed through lens of many hues. “It’s all in your perspective, because if you talk to older people they’re resentful of the gentrification and of change,” says Councilman Michael Hancock of the 11th District. “But, if you talk to someone in my generation—I’m 39 years old—that represents progress to me—the ability to go where I want to go and live where I want to live.”
For Blacks in Denver, as elsewhere, that was not always the case. Though Denver has been fairly progressive in terms of advancing equal opportunity—the majority White city has elected an African-American and a Latino as mayor—at one time, it corralled its Black citizens into enclaves such as Five Points, Park Hill, Montbello and Green Valley Ranch.
Living in near isolation, Blacks created a social and economic microcosm of their own and Five Points was its center. There, at the five-way intersection formed at Welton, 27th Street, E. 26th Avenue and Washington Street, which gives it its name, Black businesses flourished. And famous Black musicians such as Lena Horne, Dizzy Gillepsie and others, who were barred from sleeping in the White hotels where they performed, would seek accommodations in Five Points, often playing for their keep and consequently, making the area a rich cultural hub.
“Five Points really became the cultural heart and apex of the African-American community back in the ‘40s, ‘50s, ‘60s,” Councilman Hancock recalls. “On Saturday, it’s where you went to party. But it was also where you could have a family outing even though it was a few blocks from home. “That’s where on Sunday, after church, all the Black families in their Sunday finest would come to have dinner—great fried chicken or catfish and macaroni and cheese—or stroll and enjoy good jazz.”
Still, the lure of integration was great, and for Blacks in Denver, it meant moving up to the east side, leaving all of that behind. “Every time we moved farther east, it represented progress,” Hancock says.
{snip}
But even as Black businesses in Five Points faltered, African Americans thrived—elsewhere. Since Blacks first began to trickle into the area to work for railroads and in mining camps in the mid-19th century, Denver has always represented a gold mine of opportunity.
Representing about 11 percent of the city’s population, Denver’s African-American community has the lowest rate of poverty in the nation, according to 2000 Census figures. And a plethora of federal jobs and employment opportunities in telecommunications, trade and other industries make Blacks here among the most highly educated and affluent African-American communities in the nation. Denver’s Blacks have a median income $30,775, which is above the national median.
{snip}
Councilman Hancock says a community loses a lot when he it lacks cohesion.
{snip}
There are political consequences as well. Several historically Black seats in the City Council—like Five Points’—and even the state’s House of Representatives are now filled by Whites. Alvertis Simmons, president of the Denver Million Family March and a longtime community activist, sees a need for a strong Black community.
“This ain’t Baltimore, Md.; this ain’t Gary, Ind., where I am from; there’s a lot of disunity in this town,” Simmons said. “We don’t have a ghetto as some folks would have it, not here in Denver. Is that a good thing? I don’t know. Certainly, you want to be able to go where the grass is cut and no trash is on the ground but then you also want that flavor of knowing if you go into your community you can smell barbecue, you can get that feeling of staying together.”
(Posted on August 29, 2008)
Comments
“This ain’t Baltimore, Md.; this ain’t Gary, Ind., where I am from; there’s a lot of disunity in this town,” Simmons said. “We don’t have a ghetto as some folks would have it, not here in Denver. Is that a good thing? I don’t know. Certainly, you want to be able to go where the grass is cut and no trash is on the ground but then you also want that flavor of knowing if you go into your community you can smell barbecue, you can get that feeling of staying together.”
What’s the matter Mr. Simmons, not tribal enough for you in the mile high city? Maybe you can get baggy pants and sideways caps implemented as a school uniform.
Posted by Flytrap at 5:57 PM on August 29
“Councilman Hancock says a community loses a lot when he it lacks cohesion.”
The “Black” councilman got that right. Not only communities, but nations as well as entire civilizations.
Its a horrible prospect that people of all races are likely to soon learn, even worse than that which has already befallen us.
Ronald
Posted by Ronald at 6:15 PM on August 29
In those rare cases when blacks show signs of integrating into the civilization that surrounds them, there’s always someone to complain.
Posted by Reader-1 at 6:58 PM on August 29
The only thing that this article said that made sense was that the percentage of blacks is still low. As the number of blacks rise so does crime, poverty, taxes, and social services.The results are the same in every major city with over fifty per cent black.
Tell me Zenthia, presumably with a name like yours you are black, even so would you feel safe walking through our nation’s capitol, alone at 2:00 a.m.? How about Denver?
MoMo
Posted by MoMo at 9:18 PM on August 29
I used to live not very far from that area. East Colfax, actually. The neighborhoods change from block to block and you can always tell where the blacks live because everything is overgrown and trashy. As for Five Points, the article makes it sound like a “vibrant” community. It really is a dump - except for those areas now occupied by whites. As for black businesses flourishing, maybe at one time, but I don’t remember seeing black businesses - unless you consider drug dealers on corners “businesses”. In those parts (East Colfax), blacks appear to make up maybe a fifth of the population. Once it gets to be late at night, however, it’s about 80% black.
Posted by jewamongyou at 9:41 PM on August 29
It sounds like it is okay for blacks to integrate white neighborhoods but it is not okay for whites to inegrate black neighborhoods. What a double standard.
Posted by at 10:14 PM on August 29
And famous Black musicians such as Lena Horne, Dizzy Gillepsie and others, who were barred from sleeping in the White hotels where they performed
That sounds harsh when it’s phrased in that way (as the MSM always does) but today, in our “non-segregated” age, aren’t whites barred from going to or living in certain cities or parts of cities? Not “officially” but for all practical purposes, most definitely. So what has changed? Discrimination against whites now instead of blacks. Also, if a hotel or other venue goes out of business, as it eventually does in a black area, no one has a chance to work there anymore, so who benefits from integration? No one, really. In fact, everybody suffers. The “integrationists” have achieved a symbolic victory but a practical disaster.
Posted by Tim in Indiana at 10:18 PM on August 29
I was thinking of moving to Denver, but I guess I’ll scratch it off my list. I’ve experienced enough “Diversity” in my current area to vow that I’ll never move to an integrated neighborhood again!
Posted by Jill at 10:28 PM on August 29
Many whites would like to maintain communities reflecting their own cultural identities as well. What are the chances that Mr. Simmons would agree to this arrangement?
He also feels that people want to be where the grass is cut and theres no trash on the ground. Of course they do. That said, does he think that in so-called white neighborhoods, the grass cuts itself and the trash finds its own way into trash cans? These areas are kept clean and attractive because the inhabitants take care of them. How does it benefit whites by having a group of people in their midst that display societal norms completely opposite of their own? Their homes and neighborhoods are an investment. They do not want people trashing their communities and driving down property values.
Posted by Cop at 10:53 PM on August 29
As a Denver native a couple of items need correction in this article “at one time, it corralled its Black citizens into enclaves such as Five Points, Park Hill, Montbello and Green Valley Ranch” The Montbello and Green Valley Ranch neighborhoods are relatively recent developments, Montbello in the eighties and Green Valley Ranch started in the nineties. Blacks corralled themselves into those neighborhoods, no one made them go there. FYI - those neighborhoods have the highest foreclosure rate in the Denver Metro area. Five Points and Park Hill are very close to Downtown Denver, which has been growing economically therefor those neighborhoods are gentrifying. A white liberal work college of mine and his wife recent purchased a house two blocks from Five Points, there dual income well over six figures no kids. He constantly talking about how much he will thinks it will be worth in 5 years. He is very happy that many others are fixing up houses around him, funny thing there all white. It just doesn’t occur to this Obama voter that it’s white people that are putting all the value into this once forgotten neighborhood. Also note “a plethora of federal jobs” My fortune 500 company with a major presence in the Denver area has a hell of time recruiting qualified black candidates, are recruiters go to all the minority job fairs, minority organizations etc., however the recruiters would die and go to heaven if 11% of the applicants were qualified blacks.
Posted by Dead in Denver at 11:27 PM on August 29
“it is okay for blacks to integrate white neighborhoods but it is not okay for whites to inegrate black neighborhoods. What a double standard.”
You can call it a ‘double standard’ if you want. A lot of folks have been called up and asked to send flowers.
Posted by at 11:34 PM on August 29
“…who benefits from integration? No one, really. In fact, everybody suffers. The “integrationists” have achieved a symbolic victory but a practical disaster.”
Posted by Tim in Indiana at 10:18 PM on August 29
Exactly. These people gleefully destroy the village to save it.
That everyone’s lives are ruined means nothing. What matters is their own smug and selfish satisfaction for having done what they believe to be right.
Posted by sbuffalonative at 12:10 AM on August 30
Example of above remark. I live in CA and just before the subprime bust 8 houses on my street were sold to nonwhite ethnics. When it was time to pay for the morgages they skipped.Now the houses have transient occupancy. I do not know who own the houses or who is living there at any time. The houses are foreclosed and property values have dropped. All the houses once occupied by whites fled. Now my house value is $200,000. less. This neighborhood went from 90% white to 30% white in 10 years! I can not speak to most of them as they speak another language. I feel like I live in a foreign land.
The sense of community, open holiday house, neighborhood watch are gone to diversity without a common language. V
Posted by at 12:32 AM on August 30
“We don’t have a ghetto as some folks would have it, not here in Denver. Is that a good thing? I don’t know.”
Is Mr. Simmons an idiot? Yes.
Most white people would prefer to not have a ghetto in their midst.
Anyway, this “ghetto vs. unity” dilemma personifies that continual cognitive dissonance that whites are forced to suffer. We don’t like ghettos and believe it’s a good thing that people do not have to live in one, but are ghettos really better for black folks? Have we ruined the precious black unity by insisting on integration? Is assuming ghettos are bad a dreaded White Privileged Mindset? Regardless of the answers, we are responsible and we have to do something to aid these dis-unified, barbecue-smell-starved people.
Maybe we can form an expensive taxpayer-funded program that will provide airplanes and pilots nationwide to dust all neighborhoods with barbecue spray. That should make our neighbors of color happy! We’ll get to work on the black dis-unity thing as soon as we can develop another taxpayer-funded study that will decide how much money we have to throw at it.
Hmmm…perhaps something along the lines of Ghetto Villages in each city…we should get in touch with Disney about how to construct those…
I’m going to call my congressional representative right away.
(sarcasm off)
Posted by notawn at 9:07 AM on August 30
“Their homes and neighborhoods are an investment. They do not want people trashing their communities and driving down property values.”
————————————————-
Most Blacks do not buy homes, they rent a place to live, (on section 8 husing subsidies), buy a fancy car (or three) to park on the grass, a hundred pounds of “bling” to wear, and let the house and yard go to seed. They have no concept whatsoever of paying for 30 years to own a home that they can be proud of. It simply does not cross their minds. Nor does it ever occur to them to go out there and pull the hip-high weeds, water the lawn or mow it, pick up the trash, and keep the place looking like a human habitation. (“That’s what we gots the lan’lord fer…”) When the place gets too over run with roaches and rodents they simply move on… And they wonder why their neighborhoods are filthy slums or become slums when they move in.
Posted by at 9:34 AM on August 30
>>I was thinking of moving to Denver, but I guess I’ll scratch it off my list. I’ve experienced enough “Diversity” in my current area to vow that I’ll never move to an integrated neighborhood again!
Posted by Jill at 10:28 PM on August 29
I moved from the Denver area about 5 years ago, and I want to move back. The western suburbs are fine, as far as I can tell (I visited the ‘Springs and drove through the Denver area just a couple of weeks ago). A bit expensive, but mostly White and clean. Don’t judge the entire Denver area based on the central city.
The big problem in Denver isn’t going to be the blacks. It’s going to be the Mexicans.
Posted by JimS at 10:21 AM on August 30
We used to live in Aurora, (Buckley & Chambers area) and it was becoming “vibrant” then which is why we did a little white flight of our own. For example, there murders very near us were becoming common as were swat teams, police helicopters, “beater” cars, and unlimited seedy characters. And this was more than ten years ago. Now we live in Northern Idaho, where it’s still “spud-white”
Posted by ex-Coloradoan at 10:28 AM on August 30
Many whites would like to maintain communities reflecting their own cultural identities as well. What are the chances that Mr. Simmons would agree to this arrangement?
Posted by Cop at 10:53 PM on August 29
———————————
It shouldn’t be up to the likes of Mr. Simmons and his kind! It should be up to whites in their communities if they want minorities in. I say keep them out.
Posted by sandstorm at 10:29 AM on August 30
Blacks have no idea of what they want.
They demand the right to live in white neighborhoods and then they bitch and moan that the white community isn’t like their old community. They whine about lack of community and lose of political power and influence. What this confirms is that blacks can’t see ahead and envision likely scenarios and are shocked and surprised by unintended and unforeseen consequences (which for whites are easily extrapolated).
If we can’t have our own neighborhoods, neither should they. What they deny to us should be denied to them. They keep making stupid demands for more integration, let them suffer for the choices they make.
Yet another ‘cry me a river’ article.
Posted by sbuffalonative at 10:40 AM on August 30
The western suburbs of Denver are still nice: Lakewood, Westminster, and so-on. Golden is just off US-6, which makes for an easy commute into Denver proper. I would stay out of Aurora (a.k.a. “Saudi Aurora”) as it is heavily Mexican now.
Posted by Michael C. Scott at 1:44 PM on August 30
“And a plethora of federal jobs…”
Blacks don’t innovate or create or come up with anything of any value. Therefore, the only jobs they are “qualified” for are the affirmative action-ridden government jobs.
Posted by DiversityStinks at 3:14 PM on August 30
To the comment: Blacks have no idea of what they want.
Actually thats pretty accurate- but do you know why? Because its all white peoples fault! Noooooo just kidding. But that IS what you expect to hear all the time. But “blacks” have been attempting a fragile integration for only 2 centuries! That may seem like a long time, but developing a country to its fullest form requires time. So many people- so many other important issues. For this country- I think the cold-war, the UN, Irag, and a plethora of other issues qualifies. So things will move slowly- its the same as running a business (Which by the way I have my own)- so I know how it is. It requires patience, endurance, hard-work, and a set of strong ethical values to run it correctly. But the larger the business- the slower change will happen. Its no different here. So the only advice is for communities to be wise enough to make it happen without the government forcing them to. Do we need someone to tell us when something like “getting along” should happen?
“Black” communities should invest more in lowering crime by uniting and starting businesses that invest money into the economy. The only thing other communities can really do, is make an example of “Blacks” that sincerely do this. Instead of the companies having “Black” kids rap about immorality, gangs, and shooting, CEO’s should not give them a dime unless they can rap about summer-time, how wonderful it is to be loyal to one woman, and the joy of a long day of hard work. For some reason- since this is a capitalist country, I have a feeling that they wouldn’t mind getting paid 3 million to rap about summertime. Instead of Venture Capitalists investing millions into companies that promote sagging jeans, don’t give them a dime unless they can make fashionable proper fitting clothes. I’m betting 2 million dollars given to a designer from the streets to start his clothing line under these rules would change the PR drastically. Set guidelines that can’t escape dignity and hard work- this way its training to be equal- not a handout to be equal.
Unless of course- someone is not looking for real equality?
Posted by Anonymous at 6:53 PM on August 30
You’ve heard of nigerian scammers, you’ve heard of the liberian loo-loo, now we have the denver dispersal scam. Find one guilt- filled White with a neediness to make a black friend and move on in the neighborhood.
Posted by Lars at 8:01 PM on August 30
Don’t let them fool you, as Blacks moved into white neighborhoods, so did the house break-ins and the crime. It may not be Cincinatti, but it ain’t no Boulder. Lots of shootings, and the gangs at one time would go wilding up at CU in Boulder.
Posted by at 12:30 AM on August 31
I actually support this.
A Black a block, spread em out and civilize em.
I’m an integrationist. Large clusters of Blacks are bad for Blacks and bad for everyone else. Blacks function best and others are harmed least when Blacks are spread thinly as a minority through the community. Put them in one place and you get a ghetto. Even when you spread them out, they still cause problems, but usually not mayhem, which is what you get when they cluster into ghettos. Blacks in ghettos descend to the lowest common denominator and are driven by the culture to bring out the worst of their African genetic tendencies. Spread thinly into non-Black areas, they have better examples, fewer ghetto morons to emulate, and seem to do better.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 6:27 AM on August 31
Robert Lindsay, if you read Amren regularly, you’d know about the almost daily horrors perpetrated by individual blacks upon unsuspecting whites. This usually happens in colleges and universities where blacks are a small minority. The rights of whites - especially their right to be safe from random violence - must be protected. Furthermore, white people have the right to live among their own with ANY blacks if they so choose. If blacks have problems when they gather in large groups, which they do, it’s not the responsibility of white people to absorb those problems and solve them.
Posted by jewamongyou at 10:10 AM on August 31
Dear Robert Lindsay…..your mode of thinking is all wrong..sorry but it is….I say if you want to do anything with blacks….send them back to their mother land…let them and the animals on that continent, fight over who will rule…bet the animals are much smarter than blacks…that way…they want to eat let them hunt…they want to kill each other..fine…but you CANNOT INTEGRATE THEM WITH WHITES…for the simple reason…most of them are animals to begin with and you can’t make a zebra change it’s stripes…it cannot be done….but thanks for trying to indoctrinate the rest of it…we are too wise to fall for that!
Posted by lydia at 11:54 AM on August 31
Sorry brother “Robert Lindsay”, I have to disagree with your logic on this one. Notice you said “others are harmed LEAST when blacks are spread thinly.” Why sould anybody be harmed AT ALL? And you said “even when you spread them out, they still cause problems, but usually not mayhem.” So your saying that as long as they just cause problems and not mayhem everything is fine! I’m sure most of US on this site don’t really want people around them that “just cause problems.” I also believe that section 8 is doing a good job of “spreading them thinly” and we all know how THAT’S working out don’t we!!! It’s not OUR job to civilize them, it’s our job to keep them from DE-CIVILIZING us!!!!
Posted by Tom S at 1:16 PM on August 31
In Potugal I talked go a taxist about problems with the black population (they have a significant emigration,from Angola, Moçambique and Cape Verde). He said that they had no problems. The explanation: when the government remooved blacks from a slum they alocate them not with other blacks, in ghettos, but dispersed among the white population.
Posted by peter at 1:27 PM on August 31
Section 8 is certainly establishing black colonies in white towns and neighborhoods, like mine. The problem even with a small number of relatively peaceable and civil blacks in one’s neighborhood is that they’re rarely more than one degree of separation removed from a gangbanger, a rapist, a second-storey break-in artist, or an unhinged, ranting babymomma, and these are the people who follow very closely on the heels of the Huxtables in most cases.
Posted by Cassiodorus at 10:24 PM on August 31
It’s never surprising to hear of blacks, including those in politics, seeking greater unity as a race.
If only we had the same privilege.
Posted by at 2:45 AM on September 1
Denver is the gay capitol of the Mountain States. Also he neglected to tell us that although blacks make up 11% of the population, they make up 46% of the jail population and 36% of the state prisoners.
The liberals, gays, and blacks may well give the place to Obama. It would be fine with me that a city with a population of black-lites be held up as a city of the future. A once proud city of proud individuals, armed and free, has become a wimpering sess pool of white males who forego the urnial and black males with a gang rate that of Chicago. Denver is a model of how the rest of America`s cities will become. Lord help us all.
Charles B. Tiffany
Kissimmee, Florida
Posted by at 6:43 AM on September 1
Segregation is illegal, and it’s not coming back. White separatism is probably illegal, and it’s not going to happen either. The real problem is large concentrations of Blacks in ghettos and even in states. Here in California, we don’t have much of a Black problem. This town I live in is 4% Black, and many are pretty ghetto. But they really do cause few problems here. They just don’t have any numbers at all, and there is no ghetto for them to cluster in to drive them down to the lowest denominator. The Blacks around here live with Hispanics and some Whites and they seem to do better.
I know a few Blacks around here (some are even friends of mine and are over here a lot). They are already sort of ghetto as it is, but I am convinced that living outside of a ghetto is benefitting them. The 14 yr old is an honor student, plays in the band and has tons of White friends. Her other daughter is at university and has a White boyfriend. Other relatives are in the service in Iraq or work as probation officers. The woman herself is a retired schoolteacher. The Black lady next door is a Jehova’s Witness. The young woman upstairs is in some medical assistant program.
I’m convinced that these Blacks would be so screwed if they were in a ghetto. They’re already somewhat ghetto as it is (most of em) and you know they would go full ghetto in the hood.
If the option is to have Blacks packed into ghettos where they reinforce each other and commit tons of mayhem, or to spread them thinly where they just create problems and not mayhem, I say the latter is better. They’re coming to White areas anyway, there’s no stopping them.
I live in a complex that has a lot of Section 8 in it. It’s no different from the rest of this barrio really. The Section 8 people vary a lot.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 7:50 AM on September 1
“Here in California, we don’t have much of a Black problem’
Robert Lindsay
I would say it depends on where you live and how many blacks you have in your town. If you live in Oakland, Compton, Watts or other heavily black areas, you’re already in trouble. Four percent black is tolerable, but with ten percent or higher you start to get black social pathologies. There appears to be a tipping point for black crime. Once you reach it, you’ll know it.
Posted by Sardonicus at 12:03 PM on September 2
Robert Lindsey is almost right, but my wife points out that there is a third option. We shall not discuss that here, but it remains one of our choices.
Posted by Michael C. Scott at 1:31 PM on September 2
They don’t have a “ghetto” — and they’re complaining about it! It seems that blacks are never satisfied. It was the same way in my hometown. When they all lived in a certain neighborhood, they complained that they were “confined” to that neighborhood. Then, when a large, wealthy local institution gradually expanded, buying up most of the blacks’ houses for more than they were worth, and they dispersed to various parts of town, they complained that the institution had “broken up the traditional black community.”
And by the way: Is it a proven fact that Denver’s blacks were “forced” to live in Five Points? Or did they choose to settle among their own, as most of us Whites would still be doing if we were allowed to?
Posted by Wayne Engle at 2:48 PM on September 2
I agree with Robert Lindsay that blacks will always perform better when at least partially integrated into a white community. However, the strain placed on the white community, however great or small, by accomodating or absorbing blacks will inevitably inhibit their own potential and acheivement. For example, based upon what we know of genetics and IQ, the absorbtion of a country’s black population through intermarriage - even if blacks counted for only a few pecentage points of the total population - would significantly lower the national IQ and thus place whites at an enormous genetic disadvantage. The obvious contrast between the quality of life in North America and in Latin Ameican countries such as Brazil starkly illustrates the dangers that a white country will face if it chooses to ‘integrate’ rather than ‘contain’ its black population.
I agree with you that integration on a small scale will probably help blacks - but even on a small scale it will inevitably impede whites, and it is unfair to expect whites to sacrifice their true potential in order to slightly raise that of blacks (who will, in such scenarios, be acheiving things not because of their own efforts but because of white influence, which will hardly be good for their esteem as a people and could lead to bad faith from the black community).
I beleive that every race should be free to acheive its highest potential on its own terms and through its own efforts, and indeed on that account the acheivement of whites has been astonishing: creating societies, cultures and schools of thought unlike any the world has ever known; externalising our creativity through revolutionary new technology; effectively creating the modern world as we know it through colonisation and international trade; and eventually blasting off into space itself and again smashing the glass ceiling of white achievemant. Succeeding through our own efforts and largely unhindered (or aided) by alien influences, our acheivements have been truly astounding and unique in world history: and it is not the moral duty of whites as a people to compromise their abilities by acting as a form of ‘damage limitation’ for black failure.
Thus while enforced segregation is rightly illegal, white separatism will be the only option if whites are to continue their successes into the 21st Century - and beyond. I don’t think white seperatism is illegal (it’s simply a racial manifestation of our inalienable right to freedom of assosciation), and if it is then it is the morality and practicalities of the legal system, and the application of the law to everyday life, that is at fault.
Posted by James Y at 12:28 PM on September 3
So, if Blacks are concentrated in one area of a city, then it’s segregation by whites. If they spread out and disperse amongst the community, then it’s a shame because the city is losing out on all the “rich culture” they bring when they band together.
Either way, whitey is to blame for being racist. It’s a lose/lose scenario.
Posted by at 1:08 PM on September 3
“If you live in Oakland, Compton, Watts or other heavily black areas, you’re already in trouble.”
I don’t know about Compton or Watts, but Oakland is not nearly as bad as it used to be. It’s gone from being majority black to now having whites as the largest racial group.
Posted by at 6:26 PM on September 3
Sardonicus, you don’t live in California? CA differs from the East, the Upper Midwest and the South in that Blacks are easily avoided here.
For instance, no sane White person lives in Compton, Watts, South LA or any of those places. Most of these were once White neighborhoods but went Black in the traditional manner. I taught in Compton, Lynwood and even in South LA. In Black or Black-Hispanic ghettos or ghetto-barrios, the number of Whites is about zero. There are just a tiny few left, remainders of the original Whites who lived there. There are Whites who *work* in these areas as I did, but hardly any live there.
In some areas of LA such as Ladera Heights and Baldwin Hills, the Black middle class and upper middle class created a nice neighborhood. Since homes were cheap for such a nice place, many Whites soon moved in. The area is now about 50% White. This is a twist on the notion that Whites always flee Blacks. In this case, the Whites are moving towards the Blacks.
I’m not sure how it is there, but I met a White teacher who lived there one day when I was teaching at Jordan High School in Watts (Horrible!). He said he lived in Ladera Heights and I said, “That’s high socioeconomic group of Blacks there, right?” He said cynically, “Socioeconomically, yes, they are higher. Sociobehaviorally, no.” The Black teachers at the table just bit their tongues.
In the rest of LA, Blacks are just spread out thinly all over the place such that they are not that big of a deal.
Further, there are few Black ghettos remaining in California. Most have gone heavily Hispanic.
Even Watts and South LA can be driven through in the daytime, and I have done so many times. You can even go see the Watts Towers, though the neighborhood is pretty scary. Main thing is to not go there after dark.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 3:46 AM on September 4
James Y, I think that small numbers of Blacks can be accommodated into the White gene pool without much damage to IQ and whatnot. Southern Italians are usually about 5% Black, and the Italian IQ is 101.
I’m not sure what the tipping point is.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 3:51 AM on September 4
Hey Robert
Yeah, if a very small number of blacks were absorbed then the damage would be relatively small - not enough, say, to ‘Brazilianise’ a country. However, any unnecessary damage to whites’ true potential is deeply regrettable no matter how small, and the point is that the integration of even a few blacks into white society is simply not necessary.
It’s worth pointing out that the Southern Italian regions you mentioned are still the poorest and least culturally rich areas of that enchanting land. At the time of national unification, and well into the Twentieth Century, all of Italy was poor: yet in the years since, the rest of the country has prospered and developed, at least at a much greater rate than places like Sicily etc. The feeling that these Southern regions are ‘holding Italy back’ is quite widespread - the rest of Italy would achieve more without them. Indeed, there is a political party you may have heard of - Lega Nord - who want the rest of Italy to break away from the South, which needless to say is a divisive issue. Thus, even that very small amount of black genetic ancestry has had a permanent negative effect on the development of a region - and ultimately, therefore, the Italian nation - and has proven a cause of disunity amongst Italians. That is essentially why I beleive that inter-racial integration, though obviously not truly disastrous on the small-scale we have discussed, is nonetheless best avoided. Peaceful separatism should be pursued as the alternative.
Posted by James Y at 8:03 PM on September 4