Comments
Another example that blacks dont believe the rules apply to them and that they deserve special privileges just because they are black.
Posted by Mike Harrigan at 6:06 PM on March 26
The credibility of this debate has just been destroyed. Why have rules, tradition and protocol when you can have diversity? White teams might as well write this contest off.
Posted by Question Diversity at 6:18 PM on March 26
This is what happens when White Weenies are in charge. Typical pandering to blacks. I can’t believe that Whites succumb to thwe demands of these black nationalists.
Posted by Howard in Las Vegas at 6:23 PM on March 26
I debated briefly in college. In general CEDA is highly leftist, and not in a Democrat sort of way but a radical “overthrow the system” way. It’s pretty stupid anyway; debate has degenerated into talking really fast to get in all of your evidence and people don’t really understand what is going on completely.
Posted by at 6:31 PM on March 26
What a perfect microcosm for race relations: shift the grounds/format/subject of the debate rather than have a substantive discussion.
Posted by at 6:38 PM on March 26
Being awarded with a championship for cheating. Could these judges condescend any lower?
Posted by Civilized Neighbor at 6:48 PM on March 26
More proof that blacks are incapable of living by white western standards. As with moving into white schools, white communities, and white businesses, these people destroy everything they touch and wonder why white people don’t like them.
If you have to break the rules by which everyone abides, you are not my equal.
Posted by sbuffalonative at 6:55 PM on March 26
This is the handwriting on the wall.
Posted by Max3a at 7:17 PM on March 26
Of course they won. Had they not, it would have been blatant racism.
Posted by Kellie at 7:20 PM on March 26
Hey, where’s my award? I read AmRen in a very unusual style. I turn the monitor off, remove my glasses, hide under my bed and put my fingers in my ears because I don’t want to hear the truth.
Or, as the feckless, guilt-ridden white leftist put it:
“It’s a very nontraditional style. That was clearly [his] strength.”
P.S. The AmRen reading award was immediately defaulted to an oppressed hypenated-American who chanted all the politically correct ‘-ism’ and ‘-ic’ words used by the perpetually offended.
Posted by Mike B. at 7:21 PM on March 26
That’s great. Pat them on the head for their nontraditional (Affirmative Action) style vs what debate is really about, breaking down an argument into logical pieces and actually HAVING a debate. What is next, geology class presentations looking at the dirt under fingernails?
Science, nay our entire culture is based on the ability to view facts and make reasoned arguments and seek the truth. Those that actually made arguments lost, those that trumpted “Hip hop” won.
Socrates would weep.
Posted by Gun Runner at 7:26 PM on March 26
“they had turned debate traditions upside down deciding not to argue their chosen topic”
Following rules is a WHITE thing, man. We don’t got to follow no stinkin’ rules.
The judges agreed.
Posted by H. Dumpty at 7:34 PM on March 26
They used different forms of expression,including hip-hop,no wonder a positive goal was reached!
Posted by at 7:38 PM on March 26
This story illustrates the premise that life imitates “art”.
I put “art” in quotes, because I don’t believe that the recent movie about the black debaters was art. I did not see this movie; I don’t even remember the name of it. But the premise was that a black debate team won a debate by beating White teams.
It was propaganda.
These judges are simply acting out the propaganda that they have uncritically accepted.
It takes a strong mind to NOT act out propaganda and programming. Liberals historically have weak minds.
Posted by Garvin Alfred Schmaltz at 7:53 PM on March 26
I refuse to believe that something as ridiculous as this actually happened. Things can’t be as bad as this can they? This has to be a joke.
Posted by at 7:53 PM on March 26
Well, well, well, the African experience has now infected the debate scene. The minority group couldn’t argue the issue at hand so they changed the ‘rules’.
I suppose this is a polemical version of reparations.
And no White group or team stood up to this trash?
I also find it ironic that this display of poor sportsmanship took place in Wichita, Kansas, location of one of the bloodiest interracial murder cases in U. S. History. Looks as if we’re
0-2 at this venue.
Posted by Annoyed In Illinois at 7:53 PM on March 26
So the blacks found a way to win a competition by disregarding the rules when it suits them? It sounds like they were counting their “touchdowns” when the game was suppose to be basketball. Why weren’t the judges institutionalized imediately?
Posted by Brian G. at 8:07 PM on March 26
That’s just hilarious.
Posted by David Traywick at 8:09 PM on March 26
What can anybody say? Just pathetic.
Tom Iron…
Posted by Tom Iron... at 8:12 PM on March 26
There is only one solution to end this problem. Perhaps a leader will eventually arrive to do what must be done.
Posted by at 8:15 PM on March 26
Were these two blacks allowed to simply thumb their noses at the rules of the contest because the people who were running it were afraid of what would happen if the two boys were called on their obstreperousness? That is, they would have started screaming “Racism!” and the contest officials would have quickly caved in. Apparently they just decided to cave in first and save the two minority “debaters” the trouble.
The tone of the Baltimore Sun’s story is interesting in its total lack of balance. Judging by the quotes, one might think there is no one on planet earth who wasn’t overjoyed at these two blacks’ being given the victory. I suspect that’s a long way from the true mix of opinions on the incident. But hey, one of the favorite mottoes of most reporters is “Why spoil a great story with dissenting quotes?”
Posted by Wayne Engle at 8:23 PM on March 26
Where are the statistics that the debates are supposed to present? I took debate back in school and you could make whatever statement you wanted to make, but you had to back it with a reliable printed source, i.e. cold, hard facts. The types of debates here are the ones I used to hate in competitions- some less scholarly teams would speak on emotion and emit cries of suport from the crowd attending the debates. Particularly interesting was a debate I participated in where I was for euthanasia and someone had to tell my opponent that it was not a country in Africa.(this was a minority who thought it was a country!!!) LOL You were only given an hour between tournatments to prepare and this minority made no relevant argument and still was cheered by the crowd because he was the only black any of the teams! This was in the late eighties, by the way. PC disease has a grasp on everything nowadays!
Posted by jenbelievesinwhites at 8:23 PM on March 26
Lol! Isn’t that just precious?
And the “winning” team is probably not quite quick enough to know they’re being patted on the head…
Posted by Svigor at 8:30 PM on March 26
I can only imagine a white team being so “unconventional,” and demanding that the issues of black crime, illegitimacy, and corrosive rap music/drug dealing culture be addressed before the moved on to another topic. They would have been yanked off stage and thrown into hair shirts.
As it is, score (another) one for blacks being infantilized by enabling whites but being to stupid to realize it.
Posted by Ryan Chaserian at 8:39 PM on March 26
So they win by playing the race card and cheating. The judges were probably too afraid to not give them 1st for fear of being called racists and not taking their message seriously.
Posted by Diamed at 8:41 PM on March 26
Ludacris.
Posted by Zorba_the_Geek at 8:41 PM on March 26
I think these two chuckle heads have a good point. Racism is never discussed. It’s just put forward as dogma for blacks and simple minded guilt ridden whites to embrace. They made a good point with their hip hopping, conceding that logic is no friend of blacks in a debate about racism.
Wonder what the losers think? This is like losing a beauty contest to Whoopi Goldberg.
Posted by at 8:43 PM on March 26
Well, I’m sure that recent film about a 1930’s black debate team, The Great Debaters, helped soften up the Cross Examination Debate Association to accept flagrant disregard for rules, as well as ridiculous theatrics like hip-hop delivery/music clips and pretentious “spoken word” stylings. After all the film itself was full of fabrications and inaccuracies, but fairly well-received nonetheless.
And I’m sure the producers of said film are overjoyed - they now have a ready-made story upon which to base an inspiring sequel.
Posted by ZKR at 9:17 PM on March 26
Ridiculous.
Posted by at 9:18 PM on March 26
Maybe later these guys can go to a swim meet, give a black power salute and break dance on the diving board while everyone else is swimming.
Posted by at 9:20 PM on March 26
The USA will be Mexizimbabstan in 25 years. God help our children.
Posted by at 9:29 PM on March 26
And this is EXACTLY why Whitey is losing. They couldn’t keep control of an academic exercise, and allowed themselves to be maneuvered i.e. manipulated into something which wasn’t even on the agenda.
This is why we continue to have affirmative action and why blacks continue to flow into government jobs. Being a big-mouth whiner gets you everything, it seems.
Posted by at 9:32 PM on March 26
Black marxist stooges remind me of hyper religious Christians who can’t stop proselytizing. Racism, sexism, homophobia, are the holy trinity of cultural marxism. There really is nothing to debate. Races exist and are different, women are not the same as men, homosexuals are mentally ill.
The tragedy is that all this is accepted by the educational establishment much to the detriment of those willing and capable to participate in the world of ideas.
Does this fiasco remind anyone of Brown v. Board of Education?
Posted by Flamethrower at 9:32 PM on March 26
Another example of white teams that play by the rules shafted by white-guilt ridden judges and politcal correctness. This team of entitlement spewing blacks should have been disqualified from the tournament. Instead they knew that bringing up the big R would make it virtually impossible for the judges to do anything but award them total victory. Racism is the trump card to all, but I see they also threw homophobia and sexism into the mix to gain even more support from radical leftists. Not that blacks have any room to talk of those subjects. Blacks favorite form of music is nothing more than outright hatred against women and their attitudes about gays are worse than most skinheads.
Posted by Eric at 9:42 PM on March 26
Next I suppose we’ll see two blacks win the Nobel Prize for Physics by flying to Stockholm and saying that the real issue isn’t quasars or particle accelerators or suchlike, but systemic racism in the scientific community. Instead of e=mc squared, they can present the equation “We — equals emcees scared!”.
Posted by at 9:59 PM on March 26
Posted by at 9:29 PM on March 26:
“The USA will be Mexizimbabstan in 25 years. God help our children.”
I agree about the future for the U.S., and that is one of the primary reasons my wife and I never had children. We saw what was coming to the nation years ago, and we knew we were powerless to stop it. We could never see leaving any part of ourselves behind on a doomed ship with absolutely no hope.
Posted by at 10:12 PM on March 26
Here is the page of officers of the CEDA.
http://www.cedadebate.org/page1/page2/page2.html
I strongly advocate every AR reader disgusted by this decision to convey your outrage to all the officers listed.
In order to prevent them from using any of these emails to discredit us as ignorant haters, be polite and compose your email first in a word processor and SPELL CHECK and GRAMMAR CHECK it first. Everyone thinks he is a good driver and good writer. Everyone is wrong. Yes, this means you, YOU, the individual reading this. Do it.
Posted by Irish at 10:28 PM on March 26
Absolute cowardice by the judges, when will it end? Any challenge by blacks, no matter how unfair or ridiculous must be caved in to for fear of being called racist. If it were a spelling bee, would they have let them challenge the words because they weren’t ebonic?
Posted by Cliff Yablonski at 10:39 PM on March 26
Yet more proof that America’s craven liberal academics are terrified to hold Blacks to even the most trivial standards of conduct. Their cowardice has so thoroughly entrenched Black failure that they are no longer able to recognize Black success, and instead lavish accolades upon pathetically incompetent displays like the one at the debate tourney.
The echoes of this travesty will reverberate through academic contests for decades to come.
Posted by Visine at 10:50 PM on March 26
Ridiculous.
Posted by at 9:18 PM on March 26
No doubt.
But it’s also,
Sick.
Posted by Salty Dog at 10:54 PM on March 26
When they accepted the trophy, did they do the “chicken dance?”
Posted by at 11:27 PM on March 26
Posted by Eric at 9:42 PM on March 26
Great post. Lots of great posts in fact.
As Nietzsche once said,
Q: “Who needs to alter reality?
A: “Those who suffer from it.”
The REAL enemy of the Left is reality.
THAT was the motivation for the Blacks in the “debate” to eliminate the rules; which would have revealed the FACT that they don’t know how to obey them. This fit like hand in glove with the other FACT, that the Left enables this inability of the Blacks. Not only do they not reproach them, they lower the standards even more and shower them with other peoples money! Punishing merit in the process, with the predictable result that the living conditions of all concerned deteriorate considerably. And all because they suffer from Reality. Which they devote themselves to avoiding at all costs with a single-mindedness of purpose that would make any hard-headed, CEO of some large Multi-National, blush with shame and envy.
This explains this excerpt from the article. “Cooper and Love used various forms of expression, including hip-hop, clips of songs and “spoken word,” to accentuate their points, a far cry from the more straightforward, evidence-laden presentations of some of their competitors.”
note the line “a far cry from the more STRAIGHTFORWARD, EVIDENCE-LADEN presentations…..”
No folks; what we need is not a debate, but a full-scale INTERVENTION! We need to confront them on their addiction to an aggressively Anti-Reality way of life that is choking the spirit of mankind to death!
Posted by Dedalus at 11:41 PM on March 26
I’m surprised there was one venue left whose rules hadn’t been gerrymandered for blacks. Clearly a racist oversight.
Posted by Cassiodorus at 11:41 PM on March 26
“Instead, in a direct challenge to the judges and the system under which they operate, the pair made their central premise the notion that, as Cooper said, “the problems of exclusion in the debate community need to be addressed first.””
And they let this slide why? - oh wait, they were black - just wait until in the middle of a soccer match the black team decides that “soccer is discriminatory”, and that they should play “basketball” instead.
“By that, Cooper said, he meant the “racism, sexism and homophobia” that pervade the kind of tournament at which they were speaking.”
Of course, they can never give an example of this supposed “racism, sexism and homophobia” outside the imaginary straight white male calling them the “n-word”, or bands of straight white males “making monkey sounds” - hey, maybe the problem is straight white males?
various forms of expression, including hip-hop, clips of songs and “spoken word,” to accentuate their points, a far cry from the more straightforward, evidence-laden presentations of some of their competitors.
“Spoken word”? What the hell were they doing before they used the “spoken word” in the debate?!?!
“They debate in a style that is definitely outside the conventions of most teams,”…”It’s a very nontraditional style. That was clearly their strength.”
Coming to a school near you - just wait until the “predominantly black” team believes that beating the other (white) team to a pulp is a “clear, though non-traditional, strength”.
Posted by Obscuratus at 12:27 AM on March 27
Do any of you REALLY think CEDA is going to give one hoot about what we are “outraged” at? Do you really think they are going to have second thoughts about their decision? Do you think they will ever change their minds or make sure they don’t ever do this again? The very fact that they had such little control over both the situation and their bowels shows what weak, pathetic government functionaries they are. These people are lost to both our culture and themselves. Let them be and hopefully they will die off before having any offspring to carry on their fine work.
Posted by P Norman at 12:46 AM on March 27
This kind of competition already exists, it’s called a rap
off or whatever. Why does the Western Tradition of debate have to
be subverted by this? They have no connection. Debate is intell-
ectual contest and rap offs are what primatologists might call
display. It’s like the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Jersey Reds.
Why do we always consent to be the Jersey Reds?
Posted by Freyr at 12:55 AM on March 27
This reminds me of Robert Maplethorpe’s “Christ Piss”. He dropped a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art and every liberal fruitcake in NY bought it.
Twist the rules and throw out all logic, common sence and decency and demand acceptance.
Posted by at 1:43 AM on March 27
Good evening.
Please consider the following references first:
University of Mary Washington:
http://www.umw.edu
Georgetown University:
http://www.georgetown.edu
University of Richmond:
http://www.richmond.edu
James Madison University:
http://www.jmu.edu
Also, please consider the following article entitled,
“Towson’s great debaters, Senior Deven Cooper and junior Dayvon Love make history on Towson University Speech and Debate Team”
by Nick DiMarco (dated March 2, 2008):
http://media.www.thetowerlight.com/media/storage/paper957/news/2008/03/03/News/Towsons.Great.Debaters-3246541.shtml
An excerpt from this article:
“The pair qualified for the NDT after finishing with a record of 4-4 in national competition and placing seventh in the District-7 Tournament that took place over Feb. 23-24. In the district competition, some of the schools Towson competed against included University of Mary Washington, Georgetown University, University of Richmond and James Madison University.”
It would seem that these two debaters just did not appear from nowhere. They have a track record of competing against some very respected universities. Perhaps this fact should be given some consideration before jumping to some rather rash conclusions.
Or
It is quite possible that the competitions at those aforementioned universities were also rigged.
Your choice.
Thank you for listening.
Posted by Electrical Engineer at 3:09 AM on March 27
I read this story to a friend. When I was done she asked if it was from The Onion, the parody newspaper.
Posted by ex leftist at 3:13 AM on March 27
In other words, they can’t debate so they go off a ridiculous left-wing diatribe.
Posted by Jim at 5:28 AM on March 27
I’m not at all surprised they were awarded the win, I’m surprised they actually fielded a team, to any length, those any academia will go for an opportunity to pander to a minority.
Posted by abc at 5:32 AM on March 27
Rewarding blacks for breaking the rules, who would do such a thing.
Posted by SHOCKED!!!! at 5:34 AM on March 27
“racism, sexism and homophobia”
Homophobia? Hmm, I wonder about these two.
I wonder if Darren Elliott, president of the Cross Examination Debate Association, had already decided before the debate even started that these Blacks were going to win no matter how they acted? I wonder if they had just walked on stage, waved and walked off without saying a word, they would have still won?
Posted by Drifter at 6:04 AM on March 27
They have been given special privileges for years. No wonder that they are incapable of playing by the same rules as everyone else. I’m sick of the White Weenies who just give in to them.
Posted by at 6:58 AM on March 27
There are a few people who are impressed with the blacks “victory”, but you can believe the losing teams are now racially aware. Can you imagine how mad the other coaches and debaters were after this joke?
Posted by William Hendershot at 7:10 AM on March 27
The title should read: “Debate team uses “the race card” - and gets away with it.”
Posted by where's my deck of cards at 7:50 AM on March 27
“In addition, Cooper and Love used various forms of expression, including hip-hop, clips of songs and “spoken word,” to accentuate their points”
So they didn’t engage in a debate at all, but instead put on a sophomoric self-indulgent one sided show that revolved around how evil racism is. The fact is if they had tried to address the argument they were given they would have failed miserably, so they put on a pre-planned skit with no debate whatsoever and were declared the winners out of fear by the judges.
Posted by Cliff Yablonski at 8:06 AM on March 27
Blacks behaving as blacks because… well, because they’re black. And this sort of thing will continue for as long as whites are prepared to tolerate it. There’s going to be a mighty ‘dust-up’ soon, and whites have only themselves to blame for allowing it to progress to this stage.
Posted by stephen at 8:23 AM on March 27
Incredible how these modern day Lysenkoists pushed rules and reason out the window.
This sounds like something out of the World Wrestling Federation.
Imagine being a beauty contest judge in the old Soviet Union with Comrade Stalin’s daughter in the pageant. Either you go along with the insanity and keep your cush position, or, you express a voice of reason and lose everything.
In order to stop it EVERYONE needs to speak up EVERY TIME the enemy attempts this. You don’t have to be friends of the target or even agree with everything they believe to fight a common enemy which should be clear to everyone by now.
Posted by W. Smith at 8:45 AM on March 27
None of us have actually heard the ‘debate’. The knowledge even typical blacks have on racial issues might surprise some AmRen readers. Perhaps Jared Taylor could invite this team to debate on the issues of the day…
Let the conversation begin.
Posted by Can't be white enough at 9:19 AM on March 27
Give them an education that was probably payed for by the government and they still cry racism.
Logic would lead one to believe, they did not have the mental ability, to deal with the issue at hand. Soooooooooooo they just made one of their own to talk about.
And of course it would be racism, since its the bread and butter of the black community.
Imagine that!!!!!
Posted by at 9:37 AM on March 27
Wow. Amren readers aren’t the only people outraged.
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/baltimore-sun/T34KK45HBAGO3K2IF
Posted by at 9:53 AM on March 27
Here comes another Hollywood movie!
Posted by at 11:09 AM on March 27
h t t p : / / w w w . y o u t u b e . c o m / w a t c h ? v = C 3 b 0 v B 4 J w I s
This video, posted today, is claimed to be related; is/are the video’s narrator/narrators the debater/debaters? I found by searching YouTube for “towson debate”
Posted by at 11:28 AM on March 27
Original article:
Cooper and Love used various forms of expression, including hip-hop, clips of songs and “spoken word,” to accentuate their points
Various posts by “Robert Kelly” on AmRen and
Cliff Yablonski at 8:06 AM on March 27:
didn’t engage in a debate at all, but instead put on a sophomoric self-indulgent
This article about college debate competitions is not just about affirmative action’s pervasion into new terriroty. It’s a clear example of racial differences in ability.
Let’s face it. That is what blacks are good at. As a manifestation of their swaggering and childish ultra high ego, preferred occupation choices in modern America: sports, entertainment, anything which are outlets for exaggerated emotional expression which they can do better than anyone. If not these highly competitive fields with limited job openings, then do or die. Indeed most never make it into glamour professions.
On the contrary, as a general rule, blacks are not good at things of the intellect including debating as shown in this article, academics, and building economies of which there is greaterob opportunties in developed countries.
Hence you see their inner traits leading to their socioeconomic condition.
That trait where emotion is well above intellect and dominence is probably inborn. It served them well in tropical AFrica. As some posters pointed out on previous topics, blacks are likened to the peacock and, as “John PM” a famous poster on this board pointed out, like hyenas. (And if that were the case, whites are like beavers.) But genetics, evolution and adapation to environment as much as it explains so much about blacks, and whites, is topic that I won’t get into for this college debate team article.
Posted by Reality Check at 12:18 PM on March 27
>>>making history by being the first African-Americans to do so
By the same process — disregarding the time-honored rules and giving extra points to blacks — any black can “make history” in any endeavor.
Imagine the sinking hearts of the losing competitors, whose preparation counted for nothing. And imagine how they would be received by the audience if they appeared on stage at a rap concert and attempted to conduct a debate. O
Posted by at 12:33 PM on March 27
I’m an attorney who takes court appointed cases. Sometimes, when I have no facts and no case, I have to make an emotionally-laden plea to the judge to waive all the rules and all common sense and give my guy a break because it’s all so “unfair.” I feel ridiculous doing it, and the end result is always the same: “Nice try, Mr. Smith, but you know the rules. The law prevents me from giving such a sentence.”
In this case, the debate judges didn’t have the backbone to say that the rules are there for a reason, and they can’t go out and make new rules to suit their purpose.
Posted by at 12:48 PM on March 27
Does anyone still wonder why blacks get no respect?
They did not even have to compete to win, they were declared the winners just for being different.
This remindes me of a highschool talent show I saw back in 2000 where a Black step team won only because they added variety to the competition. Their routine was not even complicated and in all, a mediocre performance. Two guitar players who had composed their own piece for the contest lost to the under qualified representitives of diversity in America. As the clear winners, they were pissed and told a lot of people about it. No one disagreed with their analysis except for the judges.
Posted by True Resistance at 12:50 PM on March 27
This should question the value of any college degree recieved by a black person.Notice how so many socalled degrees that blacks recieve are in very subjective subjects such as sociology or ethnic studies.I bet blacks do not get the same percentage of degrees in the hard sciences even with affirmative action as whites.I am not surprised that none complain since such courses of study require such hard work such as showing up for class and passing test.
Posted by Tony Soprano at 1:47 PM on March 27
And once again we see what “equality” means for Blacks..it doesnt mean a level playing field at all, it never has.
Posted by at 1:57 PM on March 27
It’s just like when they picked the black Miss America.
Posted by Oly at 2:03 PM on March 27
“It’s a very nontraditional style.”
The other night on the discovery channel I saw a documentary in which the commentator referred to a certain African tribe as having “a rich oral tradition.” I turned to my son and said, “That means that they are illiterate.”
Growing up as a white person in America today means learning how to speak in code.
Posted by at 2:04 PM on March 27
When are they going to make the movie? What would they call it? I have some ideas but might be insulting. We already have cheerleading movies Bring it on, and all the sequals. We also have The mighty ducks. You wonder why rules don,t count watch most of the movies nowadays. This is why i stopped going to movies. Its the end of any civilisation as we have known it. Get used to it.
Posted by at 2:04 PM on March 27
“Put on a sophmoric self-indulgent one sided show…” -Cliff Yablonski
Reminds me of my run for Senior Class President. The cutting words of the vice-principal still resonate after thirty -five years and seem appropiate to repeat here. They are, “High School stunts are for those students who are too lazy to earn recognition through acheivement!”
Posted by Tim Mc Hugh at 2:16 PM on March 27
I don’t see what the surprise is all about. There is a white way and a black way. What’s the big deal?
Posted by LOGIC at 3:57 PM on March 27
The two “winners” have learned, over the course of their
affirmative-action lives, that such behavior is selectively encouraged and rewarded in our society. Why should one think, study, learn, obey rules, or endeavor to better one’s self when all one must do is play hip-hop and the race card?
The point that is lost here is that the “championship” actually amounted to a patronizing pat on the head for those whose characteristic ineptitudes and failings we find pitiable, and a slap in the face for the legitimately qualified people who approached the debate with sincerity and honesty.
Indeed, the debate was a mockery of those who are unable to play at the level of intellectual adults. Unfortunately, the mockery also punished someone else who actually deserved to win.
What a waste of time it must have been for all.
Posted by at 4:19 PM on March 27
I have to agree totally with all of the above post. Now here is mine. I think we should insist that the DEBATE be reschedulled with the same judges and the same contestants and be made public. misfit
Posted by at 4:51 PM on March 27
“Crito, I owe some crack to Asclepius. Will you remember to pay the debt?”…
Posted by Tim Mc Hugh at 5:39 PM on March 27
A few miles down the street is Morgan University, a Black school. Rhetorical question… Why do these guys prefer to attend whiter Towson?
Posted by factualist at 6:02 PM on March 27
I think this dovetails with the trend in college and even high school to redefine intellectualism as a combination of identity politics and sloganeering. This can be done because those with power to do the redefining are all like-minded. The black debaters were of the right group and had the right emotional style - and today that’s considered excellence. At least to the judges.
It is also the logical extension of decades of affirmative action in general, especially in literary awards, acting awards, and beauty-contests. The black Harvard and Princeton professors with 105 IQ’s do spew a lot of shuck and jive as well, and are fundamentally no different than the award-winning black debaters. It’s all melanin and mirrors.
There do seem to be potential grounds here for a lawsuit. Would the second-place team have won if they’d been black? Would the first-place team have lost if they’d been white? I think a reasonable person might answer yes to both questions. So could the “losers” bring a lawsuit against the contest, charging racial discrimination? Imagine a championship basketball victory of a white team over a black team in a game refereed by black paleoconservatives where the whites were permitted to travel and goaltend. Do you think there would be a lawsuit?
Posted by 20k at 8:18 PM on March 27
Cannot imagine being called anything worse than homophobic, I could never go against a debater that uses a latin phrase. I think the judges were stupefied by the pc/diversity tripe to the point of waving a white flag to their black oppressors.
Posted by Lars at 8:21 PM on March 27
And when an employer questions the legitimacy of an Ivy League degree in the hands of an affirmative action recruit, or we question whether a black executive employed by the government passed the REAL civil service exam or the “special” one, when he was hired, or when it looks suspicious to us when a black wins an award; be it an oscar, emmy, Nobel, or national debate contest…WE are the racists!
Everyone see how that works?
Posted by Ray Cist at 9:14 PM on March 27
Instead of allowing Debaters to change the rules for their convenience; and instead of having the Debating Committee go along with it; I suggest we have the Debaters, and the Debating Committee allow us to change the rules and turn the tables on them by turning the Debate into a lecture and the lecture into an intervention. The subject of the talk would be on the dishonesty of enabling and its psychological consequences on the community at large.
These Enablers and their Dependents are creating a System of Codependency whose ultimate purpose is to alter Reality because both groups suffer from it. Their system of Codpendency is designed to conceal this unpleasant fact from themselves. Since they have had enormous success they are in effect inhibiting spiritual, intellectual, psychological and emotional growth - for everyone! (Not that the Right is interested in any of these things.) This is effecting everyone, since any attempt to live in a larger world, to view life out of a wider frame of reference, is seen as elitist and “inherently” evil.
It’s a Brain Sickness that leads to Soul Murder. And, since it’s effecting everyone, it’s more like a Spiritual Genocide. And, since the Spiritual part of life is like the round part of a Basketball, it’s not a Political, or even an Ethnic Cleansing – it’s a Human one. What the Left is doing is nothing short of a Human Cleansing. This Debate is just one tiny, and sordid, example. One symptom of a much larger problem.
What do you think the chances are that the Debating Committee would allow anyone to change the rules in this respect?
Posted by Dedalus at 9:55 PM on March 27
If we agree with the liberal progressives that blacks won this debate fair and square, will they then agree with us that giving blacks a hand up is no longer necessary? If young blacks such as these can, on intellectual talent alone and with no assistance from affirmative action decisions, compete with whites AND WIN, does this not prove that continuing to penalize white students in favor of black students is unwarranted? Can any progressive answer these questions?
Posted by Cop at 11:25 PM on March 27
…It would seem that these two debaters just did not appear from nowhere. They have a track record of competing against some very respected universities. Perhaps this fact should be given some consideration before jumping to some rather rash conclusions….
Posted by Electrical Engineer at 3:09 AM on March 27
How is this relevant? They may be excellent fellows, but:
They entered a debating competition;
They did not debate, but played snippets of other people’s rap (with a silent ‘c’);
They did not address their assigned subject at all, but trotted out the same old complaints of ‘racism’ instead;
They won the debating contest.
Does that make sense to you? Regardless of what they may have done before, or may have been capable of doing, they did not debate the subject. End of story.
Posted by at 1:58 AM on March 28
This is a little off topic, but this reminds me of the sole black high school band going to the Olympics in Bejing. East Cleveland Shaw High School was choosen as one of four high school bands in the U.S. to perform in Bejing. They needed $300,000 to cover travel expenses, so a local liberal columnist wrote a story and all the bleeding hearts pitched in and the money was raised.
The problem is, this band is terrible. The cheerleaders perform some kind of obscene gyrations and the band plays the same song (badly) over and over. I’ve seen them in the local St. Patricks’ day parade and I was amazed to learn that they were only one of four bands going to the Olympics. Any local white junior high band is better. I’m sure the Chinese will do as they are told and politely applaud.
Posted by William Hendershot at 6:40 AM on March 28
Great posts everyone. Too bad they did not invite any one of the people on this AmRen site to present the rebuttal… you would not have won the award, but in the mind of any educated person you would have won the argument.
My one happy thought about this is that after the debate, a whole lot of intelligent white kids, likely raised on a steady diet of liberal feel-good tripe, who had prepared hard for the big debate, went home with a new realization that when it comes to blacks, they are not competing against intellect, but rather a political correctness that no amount of preparation can overcome. I like to think that these intelligent white kids may have won a debate in their own minds that they did not anticipate was taking place until this event.
Perhaps the real debate for whites was won that night. The judges may have provided evidence of black intellectual inferiority that would even make Jared Taylor jealous.
Posted by BRIGAND at 8:01 AM on March 28
“Cooper and Love used various forms of expression, including hip-hop, clips of songs and “spoken word,” to accentuate their points, a far cry from the more straightforward, evidence-laden presentations of some of their competitors.”
Further evidence that it doesn’t matter what you say, so long as it sounds cool when you say it.
This emphasis on style over substance is disturbing, and hardly unique to this incident. Apparently there are enough people out there who believe that anything that rhymes must be the truth.
And these kids ripped off other peoples’ rhymes. At least when Johnny Cochran came up with “if it doesn’t fit, you must acquit” it was mindless tripe of his own invention (and proved that “if it rhyme, you do no time”).
Posted by BW Sam at 11:14 AM on March 28
Posted by BRIGAND at 8:01 AM on March 28:
“My one happy thought about this is that after the debate, a whole lot of intelligent white kids, likely raised on a steady diet of liberal feel-good tripe, who had prepared hard for the big debate, went home with a new realization that when it comes to blacks, they are not competing against intellect, but rather a political correctness that no amount of preparation can overcome.”
Excellent point. The debate wasn’t between the hip-hop team and the other legitimate teams. Rather, the “contest” was between the panel of activist judges, who were determined to make a social point and got the last word, and the legitimate teams.
The hip-hop team was merely a pawn in the whole affair — just like they always are.
Posted by at 1:27 PM on March 28
Hmmmm wlll lets see. The black students did what they do best, that is, improvise, and throw a white guilt trip on the people who’s religion it is. This debate is comparable to a religious experience for liberals, so how can you blame them for winning? The blacks played the race card to a closed audience, acadmic liberals.LMFAO!
My only dissapointment is that there is NO YOUTUBE VIDEO of this event, or is there? That would be a classic. Maybe there are others though.
Here is an apparent affirmative action DEA- yea its hard to beleive) officer. This should cheer you up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY
Posted by at 11:48 PM on March 28
Was this from the Onion? Awarding ‘victory’ to people who trashed the competition sickens me.
Let’s play basketball - but I can walk with the ball whenever I want, 3 point shots are ok from anywhere, and freethrows count 2 for me but 1 for you. Deal?
Posted by robusto at 2:27 AM on March 29
I don’t care what anyone says:
Read Between The Lines!
They are LOSING! That is not to say that we are winning exactly. Who ARE “we” anyway? Putting that deadly question aside, make no mistake about it, they are losing.
It’s deteriorated to the point of Voodoo. But so bad is PC, you can’t even say that now. Regardless, if someone were to make a wax image of you and then proceed to stick pins in it while looking daggers, would you go “Ooooo”, Ouch.”?
Of course not. You would look at them like they were nuts, and you would be right.
Now though, we have ALLOWED ourselves to participate in this charade(for reasons too numerous and requiring too much explanation to go into in a post); this bizarre voodoo practice where someone shouts “Racist, Sexist, Anti-Semetic, Homophobic, Xenophobic, Nativist” and instead of putting THEM on the spot immediately, we stand there like deer caught in the headlights. HOW we arrived at this point and WHY we allow it to continue and WHAT can we do to put an end to this madness, THESE are THE questions we need to ask and answer for ourselves. Everything else is dribble.
It’s a sickness; and we’re participating in it; you can’t argue with them intellectually anymore than you can argue with a mental patient as to whether or not they are sick and deserve to be incarcerated for their own good and the good of society.
What does it say of a person who insists on believing he can have a debate with a sick person?
In any event, people are right to suspect that they were using Blacks all along. With Blacks these people have what they always wanted, ie; a justification to eliminate Thought itself! Because thinking is, along with experience, the path and threshold of the one thing these people suffer from and want to abolish - Reality!
But do you think Reality goes away just because you don’t like it?
A question for all of us.
Posted by Dedalus at 11:35 AM on March 29
And now a photo of the debate champions:
http://globaldebateblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/baltimore-students-live-great-debaters_25.html
Posted by at 12:37 PM on March 29
Dedalus asks: “But do you think Reality goes away just because you don’t like it?”
NO!!!
“A” is “A”. A thing IS what it IS.
Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears. — Ayn Rand
PC liberalism is in complete contradiction to objectivism.
How many blacks are objectivists?
Posted by at 12:57 PM on March 29
Like that superbowl with the wardrobe malfunction. But they went too far because everybody called and complained. The dancing by the other dancers was messed up too. Everythings messed up and it just gets worse and worse. Divesity at the university is a calamity.
Posted by at 11:21 PM on March 29
Just a quick question: how often do you see a black person on news television where race isn’t the subject, directly or indirectly, of their argument? Almost never. Race and “racism” is the obsession of blacks to the exclsuion of all else. Wites enjoy culture, science, literature, foreign affairs, whatever. ALl blacks can ever think about is race. Perhaps that narrowminded obsession is one of the (many) reasons blacks are so backwards and poor.
Posted by Alan at 4:27 PM on March 30
Posted by at 12:37 PM on March 29:
Re: the link to the picture of the ‘winners.’ (Btw, Nice touch with the African ‘liberation,’ black power wristbands.)
“The film pits the all black team against white upper-class schools and discusses the sensitive topics of race and equality, something Cooper and Love frequently argue about during debates.”
The only ‘sensitivity’ involved is because only blacks get to ‘debate’ that. Whites aren’t allowed say anything whatsoever (except to parrot the usual leftist dogma, while groveling for forgiveness).
“Love, a junior philosophy major, said he agrees with Cooper. When the pair is given a topic to debate, Love said they always argue from the perspective of challenging all forms of domination against oppressed people.”
Perpetually ‘oppressed’ minorities will NEVER let go of this topic. Without it, they wouldn’t have any reason for living. In the same vein that their spineless, leftist white enablers keep encouraging them. Without the ‘oppressed,’ their handlers on their phony moral high horse would have no reason to ‘struggle’ on to make the world ‘right.’
Posted by Mike B. at 6:31 PM on March 30
Look I live in Washington DC. A city that is 65% black. The blacks have been here since the civil war when it was a refuge.
For 150 years they have had government jobs, housing, guaranteed incomes. Blacks without a high school diploma drive Mercedes and BMWs. Armani suits and Rolex’s are standard. Now, whenever I have to talk to a black man or woman in a Government function I have learned NEVER to ask them anything about their job, how the agency works, who does what, they simply do not know, they have no capacity to concentrate on anything. There walls are lined with civil service “awards” photos with this big wig or that, but ask them a practical question and they plead..”thats not my job”. But they all know “their rights”, benefits and vacation time. Here in DC blacks have been freed from repression for 5 generations, money has been showered on them. And yet nothing works on a simple practical level. Want to see what an Obama-America will look like? Come to DC
Posted by at 9:50 AM on March 31
The Debate:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5390665162595544147
Posted by sbuffalonative at 5:01 AM on April 4
Did anybody watch this debate? I didn’t view the entire thing, but the stupid white kids actually ended up debating the blacks about racism. The thing looked like a rap contest. the whites should have just resigned rather than subject themselves to this humiliation.
Posted by William Hendershot at 3:41 PM on April 4
My name is Adam J. Jackson, and I’m a member of the Towson University Speech and Debate team.
I use the style of argumentation that Deven and Dayvon, albeit in different ways, but still with the same consistent argument. In fact you can look at the movie that me and my partner, Deverick, made on YouTube about how black imagery of winning debate tournaments helps our community:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3b0vB4JwIs
We even qualified for double octofinals at the tournament.
But I digress, I wanted to let the “commentators” know that your posts only illustrate how “outrageous” and “unbelievable” it must have been for two black men from Baltimore to win against two white men from Kansas.
Surely there must have been an injustice at hand. How could a team like that win talking about trivial stuff like “racism” and “white supremacy”.
Its saddens me that when black people have found a way to liberate their minds and spirits through in activity that is fundamentally designed to exclude us, then clearly we MUST have cheated or cried and “YOU’RE ALL RACIST!!!”
I’m willing to bet only a handful of you actually watched the debate, and much less of you understand the argument.
Whether you’re “playing” online and posting random stuff, or your an internet thug, I just felt like it was totally bogus that 1.) This is the first time a black team has won at this tournament and instead of celebrating it, your lambasting us for having a different perspective. and 2.) No one EVER gets this “offended” when white teams wins this tournament year after year with no problem on top of them using arguments like “US Imperialism is good”.
I really want to reach out to people so that people can understand our perspective, but it’s these kinds of comments that only show the kinds of prejudice and discrimination that we already knew existed.
I can only hope that one day you decide to say these comments to our face so we can have a productive discussion instead of hiding behind a monitor typing into your keyboard, and clicking “Post” with a sinister smile on your face.
It only goes to show that we will never come to terms with this country’s system of domination until we come face to face with how it materially effects people’s lives and their communities. Critisizing from this disconnected perspective will always continue oppression of people of color.
That’s all I had to say.
You can go back to typing now.
Posted by Adam. J Jackson at 4:06 PM on April 7
Nice touch “Adam” — posting 2 weeks after the fact when you think nobody reads this far back.
You obviously don’t read this site (or anything outside of your little perpetually ‘oppressed’ ‘world of color’, but everything you said had been refuted literally thousands of times before, so I won’t waste keyboard strokes on drive-bys like you.
You’re a member of the debating team, huh?
“In fact you can look at the movie that me and my partner, Deverick…”
“Me and my partner”?
How about “My partner and I”
You know the difference between “your” and “you’re”?
“Critisizing”
How about “criticizing”?
…and all the rest. Try basic English first before debating.
…and would you people stop already with the ‘people of color’ nonsense. What are you, a box a crayons? ‘Colored people’ was in vogue when your leftist plantation masters deemed it so, but they decided (as with the rest of the English language) that that was ‘offensive’….this week, so they inverted the words and you eat it up. Stop playing the race and victims cards; get an education and a job; stop committing crimes at a phenomenal rate; stop having babies and abandoning them at a 70% rate; stop glorifying gangsta ghetto culture; stop blaming whites for your failures. Ask any older black conservatives like Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Larry Elder, etc., etc. how much better blacks had it in the 50s. We’ve handed you everything to the tune of over six trillion dollars in the last 45 years….and you’re still a failure as a race (or to be more precise, 90% of you are).
You and your ‘crew’ would definitely not want to debate our ‘crew’ Adam (unless it was being hosted on a college campus, where you would automatically be declared the winners).
You have no clue what you’d be into (and not out of)…
Posted by Mike B. at 12:41 AM on April 9
