You Will Be SHOCKED Which Network Was No. 1 for Three Straight Weeks

Noah Davis, Business Insider, July 13, 2011

Univision.

According to a release that landed in our inbox this morning, it was “ranked as the #1 broadcast network for the entire week among Adults 18-34, out-delivering FOX(+1%), ABC (+21%), NBC (+12%), and CBS (+60%).”

Recently, ratings have been bolstered by two soccer tournaments–the Gold Cup and the Copa America–which are widely watched by the Spanish-language audience.

{snip}

Even more impressive is the network’s growth in viewers when compared to the losses suffered by the major English-language channels.

According to the release:

Season-to-Date, Univision continues to post year-to-year primetime audience increases among Adults 18-49 (+8%) while the English-language broadcast networks are reporting audience declines (ABC -8%, CBS -9%, NBC -11%, and FOX -5%); Univision’s audience also increased among Total Viewers 2+ (+7%) and Adults 18-34 (+6%).

{snip}

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  • BLACK HAT

    When you are sitting home all day nursing 2 or 3 little anchor kids, what is going to be on TV?

    You don’t speak English since you don’t have to. The map and instructions on how to cross the border were in picture form and Spanish.

    All the products at Wal-Mart have bi-lingual labels and your SNAP card came with Spanish instructions. Home Depot is all in Spanish and your immigration attorney, funded by La Raza speaks perfect Spanish to the gringos who keep trying to violate your rights and deport you back to Mehicho.

    what a country….

    Amerrrica. What a place.

  • BLACK HAT

    When you are sitting home all day nursing 2 or 3 little anchor kids, what is going to be on TV?

    You don’t speak English since you don’t have to. The map and instructions on how to cross the border were in picture form and Spanish.

    All the products at Wal-Mart have bi-lingual labels and your SNAP card came with Spanish instructions. Home Depot is all in Spanish and your immigration attorney, funded by La Raza speaks perfect Spanish to the gringos who keep trying to violate your rights and deport you back to Mehicho.

    what a country….

    Amerrrica. What a place.

  • Anonymous

    I’m in the northeast. Latinos have taken over in all but name. I flipped through my regular hdtv menu of channels (not cable) and a whopping 30% of the channels were in Spanish!

    To this day I still do NOT understand how there can be SO MANY Latinos in Latin America that they can be at least 30-50% of the population in nearly every city and larger town in America, from coast to coast and north to south. I mean, now everywhere I go, I see as many latinos as non-latinos. How is this possible?

  • sbuffalonative

    I literally felt a chill when I read Univision.

    One way to explain this is that whites have been turning to alternative media like the internet, ipods, smartphones, and tablets and they have eschewed mainstream media.

    Hispanics may simply gravitate to television as it is still a relatively cheap form of ubiquitous entertainment.

  • Stiv

    People these days are shocked by the obvious. What did they expect to happen when the Hispanic population is growing at light speed?Did they think they would take up where Mr. and Mrs. White Suburbanite left off? They’ll now fashion large parts of the popular culture to suit themselves.

  • Anonymous

    I live in California and have a Hispanic friend who is fluent in Spanish. He cannot stand Univision because he said they, especially when it comes to news, are taking and engage in lots of yellow journalism. He said that their primary focus is on scaring Hispanic people to get ratings!

    They pick an incident involving ICE somewhere in the U.S. and harp about it, thus scaring people into tuning in.

    Apparently, according to my friend, yellow journalism with lots of high drama is commonplace in Latin American nations.

    This strong adherence to Univision is also due in part to, I think, the fact that Hispanics have yet to transition away from broadcast media over to the Internet the way most whites have.

    But why should they anytime soon? Univision is Hispano-centric and caters to them specifically.

    If non-Hispanic White people had an ethnic-centered media outlet that catered specifically to them, you can bet there would be HUGE adherence to that channel too!

    …and before anyone says anything, no Fox News doesn’t count! It is just as dedicated to globalism and white disenfranchisement as all of the liberal networks are, they just pretend not to be.

  • Anonymous

    Notice how the guests on that program all said whites were mistaken to think they were being discriminated against. Yet none of them provided any evidence to support their opinion. Tim Wise has made a career out of inciting hatred against whites and he has the gall to dismiss whites who are concerned about it. The self-righteous bigotry of that troll is staggering.

  • (AWG) Average White Guy

    Does this imply that Hispanics watch too much TV?

  • Tim in Indiana

    Even more impressive is the network’s growth in viewers when compared to the losses suffered by the major English-language channels.

    LOSSES? Nonsense! When one race pushes aside another it’s not a zero sum game, so how could the English-language channels have suffered any losses? After all, it’s not a zero sum game! Just ask Harvard egghead Michael Norton and our friend Tim the Unwise!

  • Question Diversity

    No kidding. You mean a network with live sporting events that appeals to a racial audience is outdrawing the “mainstream” over the air nets running summer re-runs and lame summer schedule “reality” junk?

  • SKIP

    I guess a bright side could be that Mexican types dislike blacks, they have much prettier women and in general, have no problem with whites as blacks do. I have EXTENSIVE experience with both black and hispanics and prefer hispanics. Given a choice which would exclude whites, I would rather be around Asian people (Japan, China, Philippines) NOT Pakistani/Afghan/Indians from the sub continent…No muslims of ANY nationality at all.

  • Bernie

    Thank God for Univision! Where else can we see all-white soap opera casts, news anchors, comedy shows and beauty pagents?

    Certainly not on American shows/networks.

  • Anonymous

    Have you seen what types of programs are on Spanish language channels? Putting the endless soccer matches aside, they have some of the raunchiest, most crass shows I’ve ever seen. It’s all bimbos and mobsters all the time. I watched a show on Mun2 called RPM Miami. Oh my gosh! It makes latino life look so horrible – gangsters, crime – and BIMBOS every second. I saw a show recently that was a kind of dating game. I know some spanish so I could follow the dialogue. It was so crass and nasty! No romance, no imagination, just all sex talk in the most base way. The Spanish language radio shows also feature non-stop foul language.

  • Roger Lee

    To #11

    You mean almost white. The white-looking Mexicans are descended from Spaniards who themselves are mixed-race people. Spain was occupied by Muslim Arabs for 700 years. Antonio Banderas and Penolope Cruz are not white, as far as I am concerned.

  • Jed

    “Oh my gosh! It makes latino life look so horrible – gangsters, crime – and BIMBOS every second. ”

    If only the Mexican women in the US looked like the bimbos on Univision. Most of them look like 200 gallons of suet pudding poured into a 100 gallon container.

  • Pete Ward

    Univision shows don’t have a whole lot of mestizos or native Mexicans (indians) on them. It’s all Spanish-speaking white people.

    If it were in English, it’d be immediately branded as white racism!

  • Gran Torino

    These ratings are meaningless. This year there are a couple of soccer tournaments: The Gold Cup (won by Mexico) and Copa America (South American soccer championships and Mexico is invited) Univision broadcasts both tournaments and of course every single mexican in the U.S tunes in to watch the games. This is a temporary spike in audience. I, myself like soccer so I maybe contributing to their ratings, especially now since FOX Soccer channel is not showing Copa America. Once this tournament is done they’ll be back to their usual ratings.

  • Reg

    That the US is becoming an hispanic nation is quite evident. But then who will take care of the black burden? I don’t think the hispanic majority will be interested in feeding, housing and changing the diapers of America’s black dependents as European Americans have been doing for last century and a half. Maybe the next civil war will be between blacks and browns, I guess time will tell…

  • Anonymous

    Bernie is right about Univision! Seldom will you see even a dark Hispanic much less a black one there. The WOMEN, , suffice to say many of the news and weather programs are enjoyable with, without, in spanish or with no sound at all.

  • Anonymous

    Are blacks over-represented on Univision, and cast as genius heroes, as they are on “white” television? Do Mexican women routinely chum up to blacks, as they do on “white” television? Something to think about.

  • Anonymous

    They are desperately trying to taint Fox and Murdoch for the English tabloid situation News of the World.

    Good timing going into 2012 election.

  • Terry

    One thing we fail to realize is that hispanics are beginning to leave the U.S. They are leaving Arizona and New Mexico and going back to Mexico. They are going back in droves, partly because white women are starting to defend themselves because they are sick and tired of constantly being raped, and because God is driving them out. Just sit back and watch. You will see them kill each other off just like blacks are beginning to do, and have done so for centuries.

  • Crystal

    After all, Univision is headquarted in Miami, which is a hotspot for light skinned Cubans that are seen on its channels. There are very few if any, indegenous looking or black people on its channels. In fact, I tuned in once and saw black cuban jazz singer Celia Cruz playing a maid in one of its soap operas. I thought why is she doing this since she is far more talented than that.

  • Anonymous

    @ Roger Lee. Do you have the same opinion about Italians? The Moors were in Sicily for many years. Do you consider Italians not white? Hitler considered Italians to be a mongrel race. Do you therefore hold the same opinion about Italy, as you do Spain?

  • AmericanNationalist

    The American people never played a leadership roll in coordinating the illegal immigration landslide.

    Americans are responsible for drinking in Socialism to the point they have denied Americanism.

    Those responsible control corporations in the U.S. and Europe.

    The trillionaires who have the money to destroy our industrial base and economy so as to claim ownership of th states.

    But it is not ownership of America that is important to them.

    It is that the white American working class be owned and amalgamated so that white America will not stand in the way of a new corporate paradigm.

    The money masters have already destroyed much of South Africa, caused the collapse of the Argentine economy, and struck western Europe economic collapse and massive non-white immigration of their muslim enemies to fulfill their agenda.

    America is the last archangel left standing.

  • NiviusVir

    When I read the sub title to the headline, I thought that perhaps I might be slightly shocked, but nothing too great. After reading the number one ranking, I’m truly flabbergasted; I didn’t expect to see that. And, I’ve become relatively callous, but this, this is a bit much. I know the elites are giving our country away, and displacing us, but wow, to actually see this!

  • François

    I live in Québec City, Canada, and I find it just scary, the way those Hispanic illegals are creating their own parallel society, in the U.S.

    What part exactly of «illegal immigrants» don’t those people understand? And why are your middle class liberals so prone to rush to their defense?

  • Berin Rassouid

    Don’t knock SL TV. 3 good reasons to watch: NO BLACKS;

    Lotsa soccer; good looking women. Also I like the idea that

    Latino women wear dresses – just like the good ole’ days.

  • scaredva

    The amount of people who seem to think that Mexicans will be “better” than blacks frightens me. The more intelligent,”whiter” Mexicans will have a rage and hatred for whites that will dwarf anything a mulatto could begin to feel.

    They will be a permanent underclass in this country. They will quickly learn that even when they try their best and “assimilate” that whites,asians,hindus, even arabs are still more intelligent and “worth” more to society. They will seek white mates constantly to “breed” away the obvious stain that they and their progeny bear. They will attempt to “pass” – many will succeed. Oh and they have a whole continent of “primos” right next door to back them up. To SKIP and anyone else who honestly thinks that Mexicans will be “better” for America than blacks – I’m going to have to agree with what a poster named Courtney mentioned a while back – you’re thinking with the wrong head, brother.

  • Anonymous

    28 — scaredva wrote at 9:26 PM on July 15:

    The amount of people who seem to think that Mexicans will be “better” than blacks frightens me. The more intelligent,”whiter” Mexicans will have a rage and hatred for whites that will dwarf anything a mulatto could begin to feel.

    They will be a permanent underclass in this country. They will quickly learn that even when they try their best and “assimilate” that whites,asians,hindus, even arabs are still more intelligent and “worth” more to society. They will seek white mates constantly to “breed” away the obvious stain that they and their progeny bear. They will attempt to “pass” – many will succeed. Oh and they have a whole continent of “primos” right next door to back them up. To SKIP and anyone else who honestly thinks that Mexicans will be “better” for America than blacks – I’m going to have to agree with what a poster named Courtney mentioned a while back – you’re thinking with the wrong head, brother.

    ____________________________________

    Totally agree with you.. I also notice that the word Asians is also mentioned by some here who say they are better for us..WHAT?

    Neither are “better” for us. What is it with so many Whites who fall all over themselves trying to convince us that one NONwhite group is better than another for us Whites? Whites are better FOR Whites, period.

    Don’t they realize that having bi-racial children only DESTROYS the White bloodline forever? They are in essence creating another RACE of people that God never intended to be. But leave it to “mankind” to mess with God’s creation. Well, we sure are paying for it now, aren’t we?

  • Anonymous

    To #27

    .. . ‘3 good reasons to watch:NO BLACKS;..

    But there were also few Blacks on American televison in the past.

    Then the Cosby and Oprah Shows became two of the most popular

    shows.

    There was also a time in American History when NO BlACKS were in public office. This is not so today.

    Interracial marriage was illegal in America and some other western countries. Now in certain Asian countries you find western males who travel to date local women, and in certain Caribbean countries and African countries, you find female tourist dating local men.

    When countries are wealthy for a good period of time look for some changes in laws , attitudes and behaviors.

    It is just a matter of time before some of these countries

    follow the same path as the USA by obtaining wealth or

    by being influenced by us.

  • Anonymous

    I think there is a lesson to be learned here . Every network has cajoled , pandered and groveled for the minority viewers . But when the minorities have a choice , they choose their own .

    This is a lesson that egalitarian European-Americans will soon learn across the board . If you’re Caucasian , you will not win an election , you will never be an entertainment celebrity , you will never have that good job with the government or a big corporation . You will be lucky indeed if you are employed at all . You can forget getting a loan or any other benefits . Your descendants will slowly be absorbed into the minority community or face unbearable persecution and your memories of ancient Greece , Rome and all the other great Caucasian civilizations will be ignored , swept under the rug , kept from the light of truth until it is all no longer a memory at all , not even for your grand children , great grand children and great great grand children . The legend of Atlantis will have more significance than the memory of your own people will have .

  • Tom in Illinois

    I miss the 80’s…not one Spanish channel on the list in Cablevision. The 90’s however was the tipping point. I remember having my first satellite tv service, that’s when i was introduced to Univision. Back then it had about 30 music channels…and of course a SALSA station was thrown in, but thankfully as the last channel of the music station list.

    2K’S, it spread like wildfire…there are now Spanish stations you never heard about, and multiple foreign channels for music.

    Now I fear what the 2K10’s are going to bring…

  • RamzP

    Poster # 30 needs a reality check. Caucasians already DO dominate the entertainment. Look at any music video, TV sitcom or movie/fashion mag – atleast 95% of the faces you see as the lead stars ARE white Caucasians. So please help me understand what you really mean.

    To SKIP: I wonder how you could actually state that living along with Mexicans is a good idea for a white man. I mean seriously, did you insinuate that Mexicans & Chinese & Pinoys are a better substitute than East Indians ( probably the wealthiest & best educated immigrant class in the United States)? I would rather prefer staying with the Japanese or Scandanavians / other Europeans instead. And yes, indeed – NO Moslems of any kind!

  • Anonymous

    13 — Roger Lee wrote at 10:55 PM on July 14:

    To #11

    “You mean almost white. The white-looking Mexicans are descended from Spaniards who themselves are mixed-race people. Spain was occupied by Muslim Arabs for 700 years. Antonio Banderas and Penolope Cruz are not white, as far as I am concerned.”

    There’s always at least one idiot on the Amren boards who doesn’t consider Spaniards to be white. Try going to Spain and telling the Spaniards they’re not white. So what is your opinion of white? Scandinavian? How about Alpine? Are Italians white, or just the ones north of Rome? You’re probably the ignorant type that also believes that the Mestizos and Indians are Spanish.

  • #31

    While we are on the subject , who are the Spanish ? It was my understanding that DNA test have shown they remain remarkably free of Berber DNA after having been dominated by them for some 700 years .

    After sacking Rome didn’t the Goths go to Spain and settle there ? Can we assume the Spanish today are directly descended from the Spanish and the Goths ?A Germanic tribe to be sure but what did the Goths look like ? Were they dark ?

    Wasn’t one of the Roman Emperors Spanish ? I am thinking maybe Hadrian ? Who were the Spanish then ? Did they look like Hadrian ?

    Back on the subject of America , who founded the nation ? Did they intend for America to be a facsimile of Asian , African or Middle Eastern culture or European culture ? Did they want it to be refuge and sanctuary for Europeans or the whole rest of the non-European world ? Why shouldn’t European-Americans dominate in entertainment and everywhere else ? Why shouldn’t they get first choice ? Would you as a white expect to get first choice in Africa , Asia or the Middle East ? But that is not what I see . I see non-white celebrities everywhere I look and I am being told to lap it up and enjoy it . Here’s your litmus test , who looks like the Founding Fathers and who is most likely to carry the same DNA ? No apologies necessary .

  • Bono Vox

    To #35:

    Talking about entertainment. I seriously for the love of logic cannot comprehend why you feel so threatened by the tiny microscopic minority of non white ethnic celebrities in the entertainment industry. The fact is despite being only 97% white.

    Watch any TV show and you simply can’t miss the preponderance of whites with a select few token ethnics ( blacks, Asians, Jewish, hispanics etc) or the fact that almost all TV shows tend to have a white Anglo-Germanic looking Christian male/female as the lead character. The only show where I can see ethnic leads are far too few & exceptional like say “Chuck” & “Numbers” where the lead is Jewish or “Heroes” where on of the lead character who plays the smart quantum physicisy genius is an East Indian. And NO hispanic lead chracter anywhere. And, only less than 2-3 black stars as the lead in shows.

  • Anonymous

    I am not sure just where you are getting your figures from , maybe another USA in a parallel universe ? Or maybe a minority political action group ? I give you this , what you are saying would have been accurate in the sixties , it is not accurate now . There have been a myriad of minority shows since then , in some of them whites were portrayed as complete buffoons and they continue to proliferate .

    Minority anchors , reporters , ads , talkshow host , meteorologist , storm chasers and all of the new shows look like government ads promoting “diversity is our strength.” Those supposed to be white would have largely been considered “will pass for white,” in the sixties .

    I am not so much threatened by it all as I am offended by it . Because I am smart enough to know that when a minority gets the job there is a white somewhere , that looks like the Founding Fathers , is probably related to the Founders , that didn’t get the job . I understand completely that I am being forced to sit back and watch , powerlessly as my own people are slowly disfranchised in the nation their ancestors founded . Now once more , what is wrong with those who look like the Founders, probably carry the DNA as they did and certainly share a long cultural history with , getting first dibs ? What could possibly be wrong with that in the nation that their ancestors founded ? Let the so called minorities produce their own shows and they can watch them . But for me and mine , I want shows that have people who share a common heritage with us , who look like us . Who would have ever dreamed Kruschev would’ve been right some fifty years ago ? ” America will fall without a shot ever being fired .”

  • rjf101

    The reason is because there are only a few Spanish-language TV stations in the US, so all Spanish-speakers in the country will pretty much be watching those few channels. Similar to how Mohammed is the top baby name in London, because a huge percentage of Muslim boys are named Mohammed, whereas English babies have more diverse given names.

  • Bono Vox

    To poster # 37:

    I will reiterate my statment. Turn on ANY major TV network whether USA, Fox, TBS, etc….what do you see? Atleast 99% of the programs or sitcoms where the lead character(s) are clearly white Anglo-Saxon-Germanic males / females. Often the white character is needlessly glorified beyond redemption. At best you may see a few token minorities as support characters or sidekicks to the white lead. Whether ALIAS, Bones, Hanna Montana, Reality shows, Covert Affairs, House MD, 90210 to >98% of the movies which depict a WASP hero. With the exception of a few Jewish & black characters as leads in a handful of movies & TV shows. I simply don’t get where you are coming from?

    This was one of the many reasons for ethnic minorities such as blacks & hispanics starting their own TV channels ( BET/ Telemundo) which catered to their interests, simply because mainstream media is clearly white oriented. I mean people are so concerned over a mediocre soccer player like David Beckham who was NEVER in the top 10 or even top 20 best soccer players list unlike the dark skinned Brazilians like Ronaldo, Ronaldinho or the Argentinian Lionel Messi. But by virtue of being white & blonde he gets all the needless media glorification, the same with the Royal Family wedding in the UK. Another expensive overpampered parasites who do nothing for their country (UK) but by virtue of being who they are garner all the money from tax payers and media fanfare.

  • sandy

    Granted, I can just skip over these channels, but I get my cable in a package, and with so many channels being of “Spanish”, or “sports” which I watch neither I am paying for them. I watch only Fox News, History, Discovery, Animal Planet and health channels. I think the cable companies should change the way they charge and bundle the packages. Sometimes I linger on the Spanish channels, they are funny in appearance and satire, they have different social tolerances on television than we do. And if you really want to watch something fun, English Parliment..especially when the Prime Minister is there. They at least have a sense of humor, our congress and senate are too serious sometimes.

  • Is the housing market, or the real estate market crash over with yet? I am in the market for a first time home, and im trying to make sure they hit rock bottom so i don’t go under within 1 year of buying my home. Is there somebody out there that knows what they are talking about and could lend a new homebuyer a hand?

  • #37

    So we are up to 99% from 95% in a matter of a few days . So given enough time and posted messages I guess you will win this debate by default .

    I would like to be on your cable or satellite company . Every time I turn my TV on all I see are more so called minorities . Maybe we can swap .

    Here’s the thing , read my lips—– the nation was founded by Anglo-Europeans . The whole thing was an Anglo-European idea , from the first attempts at colonization to the Declaration to what we have now .And I believe that those Founders meant for America to be sanctuary for European people and few others . You can try and subvert that all you want , re-write history all you want but that is a cold hard fact that will remain in place until Miami is a hundred feet deep in a glacier . And the progeny of those men who founded the nation should get first grabs on EVERYTHING . Even if the only connection to be found is that they look like the Founders and that is certainly enough . And by the way , as far as I am concerned the Jews are white , so I don’t really understand your constantly throwing them into the debate .

  • Bono Vox

    Poster # 42:

    Instead giving me your rather unlettered subjective opinions as opposed to fact, kindly give me real examples where “minorities” outscore WASP’s on Tv as lead casts. I have furnished you with many examples. Also excepting a handful of shows, the remaining are dominated by what you term as “Anglo Europeans”. That should cheer you up, unless all you do is watch BET & Telemundo – than, boy – your in the wrong place. And what was the need for your long winded history lecture. We’re talking about TV. Oh & I’m Jewish too.

  • Anonymous

    No one cares here if you are Jewish or not . But if you are liberal/progressive it just might preclude your winning a popularity contest in these parts .

    So for every 99 whites on TV there is only one minority , according to you that is . Do you ever watch the news , weather , ads , talk shows ? Let’s see , celebrities – Denzel Washington , Cuba Gooding , Samuel Jackson , Jennifer Hudson , Beyonce , Danny Glover , Wayne Johnson , the sports teams all speak for themselves . Remember the minority sitcoms of the 70s and 80s ? Whatever happened to white pop music ? Top 40 ? The pop music industry is no longer driven by success . That’s why one hit wonders are almost nonexistent . One hit wonders occur because a new sound comes along that people like . Only a free market can produce one hit wonders . It is now driven by political correctness , a liberal/progressive creation . ” the hot taste of crack.” Know where I heard that song ? Wynn Dixie , on several occasions over the intercom . Know why ? Do I have to spell it out for you . Oh for the days of elevator music , Lawrence Welk , Henry Mancini , Percy Faith , just the tip of a beautiful iceberg .

    Now why don’t you like my history lessons ? Are you threatened by them ? This nation was founded by “Anglo-Saxon-Germanic WASP,” as you like to call them and you really seem to have a problem with that . There’s nothing wrong with Anglo-Europeans being predominant on TV or anywhere else , it happens to be their country . I can tell you really , really have a problem with that .

    Why all of this repetition about Telemundo and BET ? Like I said ,’ let the so-called minorities produce their own shows and they can watch them .” I’ll watch shows produced by my people . And I do not want to be indoctrinated by politically correct ads hawking diversity- disguised as a TV show . Now if you don’t mind ,I humbly request that you take a flying leap at the next rolling doughnut hole that comes along my liberal nemesis . I wish you the best that liberalism has to offer . Too bad that will probably be the end of the nation I have loved for over a half century .

  • Bono Vox

    To Poster # 44:

    I had to state my Jewish identity because Jews are a distinct identity as opposed to mainstream white ( more in the European sense). We Jews trace our ethnic homeland to west Asia in the land of Canaan, now called Israel. A little bit of history lesson, hope you are not threatened by it my conservative friend. I don’t see you as a nemesis. See I am a lover not hater.

    Yet again, you have failed to address my points. You make loud & obnoxious claims that TV shows and Hollywood is non white. That is preposterous. I will reiterate my statement: At least 99% of the Tv shows on ANY mainstream channel and Hollywood is dominated by WASP characters in leading roles. Those handful of African American names that you quoted happen to be the lucky few who form the token minority winning those handful/ exceptional roles as leads or sidekicks in movies. You only prove my point.

    Funny thing is, despite TV/Movies being totally dominated by WASP’s/ European Americans, you still fret & whine about the exact opposite which has no bearing in reality!