Why Do Blacks Receive Fewer Valor Medals?

Leo Shane III, Stars and Stripes, June 13, 2011

{snip}

Every year, we try to present a diverse selection of battlefield stories, to best reflect the makeup of the military. We seek representatives from each of the services. And we want to make sure that every hero we feature isn’t a white male.

And, in most respects, this section succeeds in that. We rarely have to search for Hispanic troops to profile. We’ve had trouble finding women, but that’s not unexpected given the Defense Department’s prohibition against women in combat.

But finding African-Americans who have received valor awards has often been difficult. It has meant scouring other newspapers and blogs looking specifically for black heroes. It has meant tactless last-minute calls to public affairs officers asking for help identifying “troops with heroic stories, but they have to be black.”

{snip}

But broad demographic shifts in the military over the last decade suggest that one of the main reasons we’ve seen fewer battlefield awards for African-Americans is because there are fewer African-Americans on the battlefield.

According to figures from the Defense Manpower Data Center, today there are more than 241,000 African-American active-duty troops in the four services, and nearly 130,000 more in the Guard and Reserve.

But those numbers have dropped significantly in recent years. In 2000, one out of every four soldiers was African-American. In 2010, it was less than one in five. The Marine Corps saw the proportion of blacks drop from nearly 16 percent to about 10 percent over the same span.

{snip}

Why are fewer African-Americans electing to serve in combat units? Dorn said it’s a combination of factors, most pointing toward why many African-Americans are drawn to the military in the first place.

“Some of it has to do with racial trends in society,” he said. “[African-Americans] join the military because they see it as a place they can get a leg up, with more opportunity than the civilian economy. So they think about it as a career, or think about the kind of jobs that can translate into a civilian job later on.”

That means gravitating to administrative jobs that provide a long-term career track or are easier to translate into resume-friendly job skills.

{snip}

African-Americans comprised roughly a third of Army combat infantry ranks during that conflict [the Vietnam War], according to [John Sibley] Butler’s research. Thus, parents who have encouraged their children to join the military in the last 20 years have also pushed them to seek jobs outside of combat specialties.

“So, while Vietnam was fought disproportionately by blacks,” Butler said, today’s wars “are being fought disproportionately by whites.”

In fact, only about 9 percent of the troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan have been black, even though they make up more than 17 percent of the total active-duty force. In contrast, Hispanics make up roughly 10 percent of the active-duty force and 10 percent of the deaths from the current wars.

{snip}

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  • Terry

    When I was with the Special Forces I jumped with the Russian Spetnaz in Russia. I jumped with a number of Korean War Veterans. They hated blacks. Specifically because of Pork Chop Hill. What happened was that the 24th. Division, an all black division, deserted their posts during combat. This allowed the North Koreans to counter attack almost routing the white American soldiers. This is why they had to storm pork chop hill. After this incident the white American soldiers despise and hated the black soldiers. Blacks are not known for being good fighters.

  • (AWG) AVERAGE WHITE GUY

    You’re on the front with an elite company of soldiers. Your life depends on their competence.

    Who do you want to be at your side?

    A black guy whose promotion is due to Affirmative Action?

    Anyone — regardless of race — who is competent?

  • Awakened

    According to the data presented, Blacks are underrepresented on the actual battlefield. It would appear that officers know instinctively that Blacks do not make good soldiers. They are not brave on the field of battle. They will save their own skin before helping a “cracker”. They do not demonstrate the same level of competency, intelligence and skill as that of White soldiers. If you were a soldier and White, would you want to be in a platoon or company with a preponderance of Blacks? I don’t think so. They would, naturally, be more concerned about their own than you. They would sooner assist a member of their own race than a White man. And they would probably leave a White guy for dead if attempting to save him put their own hide in danger. They also feel less loyalty to this country than any other group. I’ve visited places like West Point and other historical sites. I’ve seen Whites, Hispanics, Orientals, Jews. I’ve seen few if any Blacks in all the years that I’ve visited National monuments, military museums, and the like. They feel very little patriotism towards this country. They join the armed forces for a “job”, or to satisfy their aggressive instincts (more testosterone). They have a very low sense of loyalty, patriotism and concern for this country and its institutions.

  • Anonymous

    From a 1954 Time article (they were more reliable way back then)

    “The Bug-Out Song. Throughout U.S. history, Negroes have fought—and died —in the nation’s wars (and Crispus Attucks, a runaway slave, was the first to fall in the Boston Massacre of 1770, prelude to the American Revolution). Yet always the verdict was the same: in combat, Negro units were “unreliable”—a euphemism for an uglier word. Even in the Korean war—nearly three years after President Truman’s 1948 order for armed-forces equality—the classic story was of Negroes who fled from battle, then huddled around a campfire singing The Bug Out Boogie, the “official song of the [Negro] 24th Infantry Regiment”:

    http://goo.gl/320Gj

  • Enough

    “So, while Vietnam was fought disproportionately by blacks,” Butler said, today’s wars “are being fought disproportionately by whites.”

    This lie has been told so much that it has become part of the vernacular “truth” about Vietnam. In terms of service in Vietnam 88.4% of the men were white and 10.6% of the men were black – at a time when military aged blacks were 13.5% of the total population. So blacks served in Vietnam in slightly less numbers than their share of the population at the time.

    In terms of men killed as the result of hostile action 86.8% were white and 12.1% (5,711) were black. So again black deaths like black service in Vietnam were for the most part proportional to their population and was certainly not disproportionate when compared to the service and sacrifice of whites. It is not my intention to diminish the service or sacrifice of black veterans during the Vietnam conflict, I just want to correct the growing myth that blacks were somehow used as cannon fodder during the Vietnam war.

    Another common misconception is that the Vietnam war was fought mostly by draftees. Only 25% (648,500) of the total forces that rotated through Vietnam were draftees. Compare this to the WWII total of 66% of the US Armed forces being draftees and you see that Vietnam was mostly fought by regulars. This might explain why the Army was such a mess in the late 1970s as the career soldiers were exposed to multiple tours of duty and so were exposed to increased chance of being killed, wounded and just worn out- like the last ten years of conflict has done to our current military.

    Note: These numbers were taken from a presentation handout prepared by a Georgia State VA representative on 4/7/2000 and titled “Vietnam Warriors: A Statistical Profile”

  • Wayne Engle

    There’s one thing accurate about this article: Yes, there are fewer blacks in line combat units than you would expect with their overall numbers in the military. But the spin the reporter put on it is questionable. My thought is, they deliberately try to avoid the “dangerous” military units: infantry, artillery, armor, in favor of being “paper troopers from the chair-borne corps,” so to speak. Not likely to get shot typing on a word processor in an office!

    Recently the Cincinnati Enquirer published two full pages of thumbnail photos of service personnel from that area who had been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. I examined the large number of pictures, and found exactly one black. I think there may have been one or two Hispanics. All the rest were White.

    And the suggestion that blacks suffered disproportionately in Vietnam is simply liberal hooey. I’m a Vietnam veteran myself, and if you look up the statistics you’ll find that about 87 percent of all American casualties in the Vietnam War were White. That was approximately our percentage of the American population before we began admitting millions of non-White immigrants.

  • Old White Jim

    The criteria for receiving medals for valor must be racist. The armed services need to implement a form of affirmative action that will guarantee that Blacks get a medal just for showing up on the battle zone. Hiding and shivering like a cold puppy must now be included as medal-worthy conduct.

  • Question Diversity

    The official excuse given for President Truman’s executive order to integrate the military (once again, sorry for us foisting him on the whole country) was that Truman was a champion of civil rights. I am of the understanding that one of the silent reasons was due to units like the “Bug Out 24th,” referenced above, in Korea. Truman wanted to spread out black incompetence behind white competence, so that it would “seem” like black troops are competent, as a sop for further civil rights legislation in (what Truman thought would be the near) future.

  • olewhitelady

    In the movie Miracle at St. Anna, Spike Lee presents a picture of black WWII soldiers that seems to spout out of nothing but self-hatred. I was stunned to see this portrayal of the worst stereotypes of black men and wondered if Lee did the film just to poke another stick in whitey’s eye–knowing that no liberal white critic would dare to condemn him. (If he was being satiric, there’s nothing to indicate that he was.) Had the movie been made by a white, people would have branded him an outrageous bigot and run him out of Hollywood.

    Since I’ve seen this film, I’ve read many comments that seem to verify the awful images Lee presented. And I’ve since wondered if Truman integrated the services mainly because blacks could not be trusted on their own to perform properly. The British Empire employed native blacks in their forces, but always with white officers in command.

  • sbuffalonative

    But finding African-Americans who have received valor awards has often been difficult.

    Receive or earn?

    Why are fewer African-Americans electing to serve in combat units? Dorn said it’s a combination of factors, most pointing toward why many African-Americans are drawn to the military in the first place.

    We have our answer.

  • CSA4ever

    While I knew some committed and reliable black soldiers in Vietnam, in general they felt it was not their war. In fact, the fragging incidents were mostly the blacks way of eliminating officers and non-coms who pushed them to fight. This racial aspect is seldom mentioned in the military histories. Of the two grenade-in-hand threats I saw, one was by a Puerto Rican and one by a black.

    For Terry above, a similar withdrawal by a black unit left whites in the lurch in World War I. Search this link of a firsthand account of the Lost Battalion incident for ‘negro’:

    http://goo.gl/svqBS

  • alex

    “Why are fewer African-Americans electing to serve in combat units? Dorn said it’s a combination of factors, most pointing toward why many African-Americans are drawn to the military in the first place.”

    What liars.

    Some time ago there was so much whining from the black leadership about too many blacks in infantry positions and not enough in support roles, so the Pentagon weenies mandated that it was required that X number of blacks be in support roles, even though they didn’t possess a high enough learning ability to qualify.

    Instructors in lower echelon technologies tell some nightmarish stories about the difficulties they had trying to qualify blacks. It took twice as long…or more ….for the training and still most of them just barely squeaked by.

    God pity the front line troops of today’s military debacle if they go up against a formidible foe and have to rely on top efficiency and accuracy of their tech crews.

  • Anonymous

    Complaining is one area that blacks excel in. If blacks were being denied medals that they deserved, they would be screeching about injustice, racism, and discrimination. If they wanted medals, they would be screeching about injustice, racism, and discrimination, even louder. I have known many blacks; all were proficient gripers. I am no slouch as a griper myself, but most blacks are better. They need no help from whitey.

  • Rob

    Well, it’s hard to find black “hero’s” when most of them are in the rear echelon waiting to take pictures with visiting dignitaries so they can put out the phony perception that they’re out doing just as much of the dirty work as the white guys are.

  • Mark Randolph

    Has anyone noticed everytime white men go to war in large numbers the rest of the world stays home and breeds like rats. And after large numbers of white men have been killed in a war, certain people sneak in the back door and take over what the White man left behind?? Almost like it was planned that way! This may offend some people but these are facts nonetheless!! The Civil War and The Wars against Germany were a big mistake. Probably the biggest mistakes in the history of the world. We are down to 10% of the world’s population right now. The death toll from wars,abortion and diversity and a few other make believe things have caught up with us. I would like to repeat that sentence again. Every time white men rush off to war like a sheep falling off a cliff,the rest of the world breeds like rats and then they come in the back door and take over what Whitey left behind!! Almost like it was planned that way!! BTW, Mel Gibson told the truth about war and so did Henry Ford. Wake up people.

  • fred

    Blacks have an overdeveloped sense of “fight of flight”. They’re quick to fight but they’re even quicker to run.

  • john

    I wasn’t in Korea to personally witness black performance in infantry units, but I had two tours in Vietnam, one in a rifle company and the second in the 5th SF Group.

    While there were some blacks in the infantry who performed well, even admirably, I can unhesitatingly state that their performance was, on average, well below that of whites and Hispanics.

    Today’s Army has vey few blacks in combat arms units – they prefer to serve in support functions, which have become heavily, even overwhelmingly in some cases, black.

    Some of you may remember an incident a couple of years back in Iraq or Afghanistan (I forget which) in which a convoy refused to deliver needed supplies and munitions to forward units because of enemy activity along the route. I remember thinking rather cynically that the drivers were most likely black. In any event, the incident was dropped almost instantly by the MSM, I must presume because they realized that the mutineers were overwhelmingly black.

    Individual blacks have served faithfully and heroically, but as a group their performance under fire or the threat of fire has not been inspiring.

  • WASP

    Interesting story.

    1. We know from all the vids on YouTube and crime stats. that blacks are far more violent than whites. You’d think they would love to fight like devils in combat.

    2. I did notice that 99% of the men in the wounded warrior commercials and posters are white, a few Hispanic, almost no blacks. Isn’t the military about 20% black?

    Active Army

    539,675 (men & women)

    73,272 Women

    49.7% Whites

    19.8% Blacks

    10.9% Hispanics

    3.4% Asians

    3.2% Others

    I think foolish whites are out in the field dying for “honor” while the blacks are in the rear chillin’ and writing wrap songs.

    I think 600,000 Americans died in the war between the states and to end slavery. Can you see 600,000 blacks dying for a cause like that? Not me. I think their survival instincts are better than whites.

  • Anonymous

    Did anyone ever notice how blacks are made to look bad in the movie Born on the fourth of July? Oliver Stone was in combat, he saw how blacks acted in that situation and put it in the movie. I am convinced of that.

    So let me get this straight. Blacks who have worse ASVAB scores get kushy office jobs while whites with higher ASVAB scores are in the field getting killed? Yeah, that sounds about right in this world we live in. I imagine white are volunteering for combat.

  • Antidote

    @ Terry: “Blacks are not known to be good soldiers.”

    Hey! What do you mean by that? What about Hannibal Barca, the North African crossing the Alps and surprising YT in Italy? What about Ramsees The Great striding up to Asia Minor to put a hurting on the honky Hittites? What about Shaka Zulu? what about the Tuskeegee Airmen conquering the Third Reich?

    C’mon man! No more lies; the brothers just want their place in the sun.

  • White, Jewish, and Proud

    3 — Awakened wrote at 6:12 PM on June 15:

    Blacks …They feel very little patriotism towards this country.

    Truer words were never spoken.

    Drive through a black neighborhood this coming Fourth of July, and I’ll tell you what you won’t see: flags. I go to quite a few sporting events and most blacks never even have the decency to stand for the national anthem.

  • Anonymous

    The Vietnam war was NOT fought disproportionately by blacks. This is a bald-faced lie.

  • rockman

    Battle of the Bulge the German SS troops attacked black units that were sitting out the war on a quiet front After a token resistance they surrendered en mass. The issue was never in doubt. later however blacks were used to guard POW camps and often hundreds of POWs were killed at a time in accidents as they called them. It was race based murder of helpless white men. When my father was in the Pacific on the same island with a black AA unit the black folk mutinied and started shelling the white tenting area with their guns after killing their officers. the marines had to go into and restore order the hard way. this open warfare based on race was hushed up in history and is largely unknown except for those were there.

  • HH

    Let us speak plainly. When one thinks of “valor” and all that goes with the term, who among us conjurs the image of the typical dead-eyed, vacant-faced black male? Simply stated and historically speaking, blacks and valor just don’t go together – that is the unpleasant truth.

  • Anonymous

    “In fact, only about 9 percent of the troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan have been black, even though they make up more than 17 percent of the total active-duty force.”

    This sentence from the above article begs the question as to why only 9% of the KIAs were black in Iraq while 17% have been serving active duty. I suspect the reason is that because Iraqis are known to target blacks when ambushing American patrols and convoys, the military gives blacks the option of backing out of front line Iraqi duty, and most blacks accept. It would be both interesting to know what percentage of blacks are serving on the front lines in Iraq, and how it is that blacks are able to avoid the fighting there. But only the military knows, I guess.

    About the point in the article, yeah, everyone ought to know

    that black soldiers don’t kick ass as much as white soldiers. At first I’d just dismiss the allegation offhand, assuming that blacks can’t fight well because they don’t belong in the country they are fighting for, but I’d feel better about this story if it were a lot more detailed and gave a lot more examples. Somehow something seems missing.

  • Bill Smith

    When I was in the Army there were very few blacks in the Rangers. My impression was blacks overwhelmingly were in service units such as logistics. I’m sure there are black politicians who will demand blacks receive the silver star although they never went “outside the wire” (left the safety of the base).

  • Sardonicus

    I remember some of my buddies, who were Vietnam vets, saying that many blacks were REMFS, or Rear Echelon Mother Fuc*$!rs. These white vets were resentful that they had to go out on combat patrol, while many blacks were back at base in non-combat support positions. They said that the blacks in their particular units were into drugs and black power. However, to be fair, I really can’t say how widespread this black behavior was in Vietnam. The fact that 12% blacks were killed in action indicates that a fair amount of blacks fought bravely and made the ultimate sacrifice. My guess is that the rural Southern blacks were better soldiers than the Northern urban ones.

  • Anonymous

    Come on now. Haven’t you heard about the black WW2 pilots from Alabama?

    How could you ever really verify their supposed heroics since it was a separated military and all the Germans are dead they allegedly killed too? Guess you have to rely on the media and revisionists plus you are talking in the skies where no witnesses are around. Is the military lying? We know the military never lies do they? Oh no.

    Seriously you have to wonder about this typical revisionism. If these black pilots were so great then where are all the black pilots today and since? Where are all the commercial airline black pilots?

    We know they don’t exist because there is no black commercial airline pilot union yet there is black union for everything else.

    Blacks can worm their way with help to be lawyers, educators, business tokens etc but when the medal hits the road like a pilot or surgeon they are non-existent.

    With today’s similar situation with pro sports world dominated by blacks and Hispanics why don’t blacks join? They prance around and make millions even going on strike to extort more but in the older days all pro athletes served their country without fanfare.

    http://goo.gl/nTTFk

  • Cid Campeador

    That’s total nonsense! There are many Black heros!!!!!

    I’ve seen scores of movies where the beautiful White girl is about to be ravished by a gang of White thugs and is rescued by a Black guy who beats the crap out of or kills all the would be rapists.

  • Anonymous

    # 7. I believe that you must be right. Just look at all the valiant non-whites in the movies and tv.

  • kgb

    Battle of the Bulge: the German SS troops attacked black units that were sitting out the war on a quiet front. After a token resistance they surrendered en masse. The issue was never in doubt. later however blacks were used to guard POW camps and often hundreds of POWs were killed at a time in accidents as they called them. It was race based murder of helpless white men. When my father was in the Pacific on the same island with a black AA unit the black folk mutinied and started shelling the white tenting area with their guns after killing their officers. The marines had to go into and restore order the hard way. This open warfare based on race was hushed up in history and is largely unknown except for those were there.

    Thank you for bringing up this tragic aspect of a mixed-race army. It has been written by other posters on other forums that many whites accuse blacks of shooting their (white) officers in the back.

    We all know the story that enlisted men were accused of shooting their officers in Vietnam, but the racial element of it was always “whitewashed” to avoid inflammatory conflicts.

    I hope this unvarnished truth sees the light of day on a massive scale…

  • Anonymous

    I live near Fort Lee which has been doubled in size over the last few years which means that thousands of people have come into the area, both military and civilian workers at the base. The thing that I’ve most noticed about many of the newcomers are how many are minorities.

  • Pro-Patria,31st Inf Rgmt

    Poster #1: Not to be a “nitpicker” but most of the info you cite concerning blacks in the Korean War is incorrect. The 24th Inf Div was mainly all white, the 24th Inf Regiment assigned to the 25th Inf Div was an all black regiment with mostly white officers. By the time Pork Chop Hill happened the blacks in the 24th Inf Regiment had been reassigned to other Army divisions throughout Korea and the Regiment itself was disbanded due to its disgraceful performance in the early stages of the Korean War. Pork Chop Hill, in 1953, was held by units of the 31st Inf Regiment of the 7th Infantry Division and the earlier “bugouts” concerning the all black 24th Regiment had nothing to do with the events leading up to this fight, which the 7th Inf Div did hold Pork Chop against massive Chinese thrusts. Blame President Carter and his Sec of the Army Clifford Alexander for the reason(s) blacks mainly stay in the rear “with the gear & beer.” Apptitude tests scores were lowered to allow blacks into jobs they were previously not qualified for. Those in power will look long and hard to find a black for an award for valor but they WILL find one.

  • GetBackJack

    We here can describe it as “circular logic:”

    First, they are excluded from combat* (I totally agree with this)

    Second, they protest to be included

    Third, they are finally included and sent into combat

    Fourth, During Vietnam they are killed and maimed just like whitey

    Fifth, record numbers of them joined the military during peace time just for the benefits

    Fifth, (phoney) war breaks out but many refuse to participate in combat and many don’t re-enlist

    Sixth, they accuse whitey of making them fight whitey’s wars

    And, who was it that protested of being excluded???

    * Both Patton and MacArthur felt they were incapable of enduring combat

  • Cliff Yablonski

    They recieve fewer medals for valor for the same reason there are so few black donations to charity, etc. Altruism is not part of the African character.

  • Up to my neck in CA.

    First I would like to thank all the men and women on here who have bravely served our country. Thank you for my freedom Terry, Johm and anyone else who served proudly.

    Second, I would just like to say if our military starts handing out Affirmative Action Silver Stars, we as a nation have really gone to hell. Valor medals are earned, not given away to fill a quota.

  • Greg

    I think there is a correlation between IQ and Valor.

    Who are the toughest enemies we have fought?

    Japanese, Germans and Chinese/Vietnamese all are higher IQ folk.

  • Anonymous

    5 — Enough wrote at 6:44 PM on June 15:

    “Another common misconception is that the Vietnam war was fought mostly by draftees. Only 25% (648,500) of the total forces that rotated through Vietnam were draftees. Compare this to the WWII total of 66% of the US Armed forces being draftees and you see that Vietnam was mostly fought by regulars. This might explain why the Army was such a mess in the late 1970s as the career soldiers were exposed to multiple tours of duty and so were exposed to increased chance of being killed, wounded and just worn out- like the last ten years of conflict has done to our current military.”

    Will you please tell us where in the world the U.S. was fighting in the late 1970s?

    As far as Vietnam goes, “peace” was declared in January of 1973, and the final withdrawal of all U.S. personnel,including our embassy was famously in 1975. In 1976, it was declared that U.S. Armed Forces would henceforth be voluntary.

    I really question the draftee stats as well. Also the repeated tours of duty. A relatively few actually did that. No one was doing it in the late 1970s because THE VIETNAM WAR HAD LONG BEEN OVER BY THEN. We were not engaged in any military campaign anywhere in the world from 1975 up until Reagan’s two day Grenada War in 1983.

    The source you cite here seems more political and in need of its own sources documentation. I have to question it in general when it is presented with such blatant inaccuracies. Statements here run completely contrary to everything I knew then and have read since regarding that war.

    BTW the Selective Service System is still in place and all 18 year old males are still required to register. I know someone on a local draft board. He said that the U.S. Government is currently considering closing down the system completely. One thing is for certain, as long as we keep a certain populace proportion financially restricted, we will always have volunteers, but we will not have a military that reflects our nation either racially or by wealth. Rich people don’t volunteer for war and don’t need the leg up from the military. To me, the tragedy in this is that our finest whites who do join are typically rural and traditional enough not to realize that they are being used by a government that ceased to care about them long ago. Rural, traditional whites are too easily subject to manipulation by themes like patriotism and religion. But when whites truly wake up on that score, this country will indeed be in dire straits. It seems that some already realize this and so are moving toward a military that will be operating with high tech, remote tools which can be operated by people who will see it as just an extension of a computer game. The flaw is the military fact that securing real victory always requires boots on the ground. When white males realize that being economically and politically herded into elite military units is their destiny, they may decide that America is not what they thought it was after all. On the positive side, it also means that until then, white males are actually the best soldiers in the event of national collapse and civil chaos.

    Look like a game of chicken to me.

  • Anonymous

    14 — Mark Randolph wrote at 10:16 PM on June 15:

    ” BTW, Mel Gibson told the truth about war and so did Henry Ford. Wake up people.”

    This last sentence rather shows you up as a raving conspiracy theorist. If a few Jews can take over the world, they must be quite superior to the rest of us.

    I agree about the CW and the European wars being mistakes, real tragedies at the least, but history still made them inevitable. Posts like yours are a good example of why they happen.

  • Anonymous

    31 — Pro-Patria,31st Inf Rgmt wrote at 11:14 AM on June 16:

    “Those in power will look long and hard to find a black for an award for valor but they WILL find one. ”

    They already have. Recall the drudging up of the Tuskegee Airman lately. I think one or two of them have been given Medals of Honor in the recent past.

  • Anonymous

    19 — Antidote wrote at 11:17 PM on June 15:

    @ Terry: “Blacks are not known to be good soldiers.”

    “Hey! What do you mean by that? What about Hannibal Barca, the North African crossing the Alps and surprising YT in Italy? What about Ramsees The Great striding up to Asia Minor to put a hurting on the honky Hittites? What about Shaka Zulu? what about the Tuskeegee Airmen conquering the Third Reich?

    C’mon man! No more lies; the brothers just want their place in the sun. ”

    I am wondering if this is meant sarcastically. But just in case the poster is serious, I submit the following;

    Hannibal was NOT black. That is he was Mediterranean of Phoenician extraction. Carthage was a city founded by them. Phoenicia was located in the area of today’s Lebanon. It is well known that the Berbers, Barbs, and others tribes are descendants of them and even Celts who passed through at one point.

    Ramses the Great was NOT black. This idea is the result of well debunked Afro-centric historical model promoted by people like Louis Farrakhan.

    What about Shaka-Zulu? His story is mainly one of political power and the consolidation of his tribes through manipulations punctuated by occasional battles. ALL of this was among other black African tribes. Her is a snippet from his story from Wikipedia, showing how he dealt with his black captives;

    “Shaka’s general Soshangane (of the Shangaan) moved north towards what is now Mozambique to inflict further damage on less resistant foes and take advantage of slaving opportunities, obliging Portuguese traders to give tribute. Shaka later had to contend again with Zwide’s son Sikhunyane in 1826.”

    As for the Tuskegee Airman conquering the Third Reich, this is where I first suspected that your post might be sarcastic.

    I will add further that in WW1, French soldiers from Africa were the first to mutiny (it did spread to white French troops as a general strike over the terrible, bloody tactics of the generals). The black troops fled the line at the first bombardment. They ran into the hospitals and raped all the nurses, raided kitchens and generally looted and spread mayhem.

  • AmericaFirst

    From Antidote at #19:

    “Hey! What do you mean by that? What about Hannibal Barca, the North African crossing the Alps and surprising YT in Italy? ”

    I realize you are being facetious, but Hannibal was not black or sub-Saharan African, but Carthaginian, related to the Phoenicians, and probably racially similar to Arabs. For most of the Roman era, most of North Africa (including Egypt) was heavily populated by white people: Romans and their brethren in the west, and Greeks in Egypt. Alexandria, the largest city on the African continent until the twentieth century, was almost all Greek.

  • Question Diversity

    39: Not that he was singularly responsible, but if any one person could, Henry Ford single handedly made Detroit the black and Arab city that it is today. He recruited blacks from the South and Arabs from the Middle East to move to Detroit to bust the growing labor union movement, largely a construct of native born Whites. This is why I am not anti-Semitic (nor do I subscribe to the sublime side of that coin, philo-Semitism), because I don’t want to prostrate myself to the mentality that I should lionize someone who directly hurt White people by importing non-whites, simply because he made a statement or two against “Jews.”

  • Enough

    anon asked, “Will you please tell us where in the world the U.S. was fighting in the late 1970s?”

    Go back and read what I wrote. It doesn’t say that we were fighting anywhere in the late 70s, just that the Army was “a mess” in the late 70s. Ask anyone who served then what the state of moral and discipline was in the US Army during the 1970s until Reagan kicked off the rebuilding of our military in the early 1980s. I do know something about that because I went to Basic Training in High School and was issued the old green 507s one summer and then got the first BDU issue when I went back for AIT in the Winter of 1981. It was a pretty memorable visual cue for what was an immense effort to modernize and reform the Army.

    Anyway it helps to actually read what people write a couple of times before you jump to conclusions.

    As to the stats they were given in a presentation by a triple amputee former Infantry officer who was severely wounded in combat in Vietnam. I haven’t personally tried to research any of the stats I just kept his handout because I thought it was interesting and I have found him to be a trustworthy State VA representative and have no particular reason to doubt his facts. Anyway I figure his information is closer to being correct than most of the Vietnam movies that seem to be about the only source of knowledge for most people.

  • Enough

    To anon:

    It looks like the Mobile Riverine Force Association of the 9th ID shared the same source as the fact sheet that I was quoting,

    http://www.mrfa.org/vnstats.htm

    A number of Vietnam sites show similar numbers but since many seem to be sharing the same source documents it is hard to tell who originally came up with the numbers.

  • Pro-Patria, 31st Inf Rgmt

    Ref poster #40: I was refering to the current Middle East conflict were involved with that the powers to be are searching & will find a black to give a high award for valor. Blacks in WW II, Korean War, and Vietnam have received awards for valor to include the Medal of Honor. I don’t post under “Pro-Patria, 31st Infantry Regiment” because I read about it…..I lived it. Please don’t take this comment as negative as I just want to correct the record.

  • haig

    Up to my neck in CA. wrote:

    Second, I would just like to say if our military starts handing out Affirmative Action Silver Stars, we as a nation have really gone to hell. Valor medals are earned, not given away to fill a quota.

    http://blockyourid.com/~gbpprorg/judicial-inc/Medal_of_honor.htm

    Jewish War Veterans Act:

    http://www.fighthatred.com/fighting-hate/reports/503-jewish-war-veterans-act

  • ATBOTL

    In Viet Nam, blacks were a very large percentage of the casualties in the early part of the war because they were so over-represented in the professional army. When the draft came, their percentage of casualties dropped, that continued in the later part of the war when young, bad attitude black power wannabe types shunned combat roles. When it was all over, they averaged out to having casualties almost exactly their share of the relevant population.

  • Anonymous

    Blacks joining the armed forces are looking for better opportunities and a way out of poverty.

    Blacks looking for a fight join a gang.