Churches Speaking Out Against Ala Immigration Law

NECN, June 16, 2011

Some church groups are speaking out against Alabama’s new law against illegal immigration, which they say violates Christian principles.

Leaders of the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church and the Roman Catholic Church have all criticized the law as running counter to the Bible’s teaching about loving others. Episcopal Bishop Henry N. Parsley of Birmingham calls its passage “a sad moment for our state.”

{snip}

The Nevada-based Mormons issued a statement saying they are worried about tough state immigration statutes the day after Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed the law.

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  • White, Jewish, and Proud

    “Leaders of the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church and the Roman Catholic Church have all criticized the law…”

    Perhaps those who insist it’s those pesky Jews who are responsible for the push for citizenship for illegal aliens should read this.

  • anonymous

    Christian principles, my Aunt Fanny. The Bible says to be in subjection to the governing authorities, and besides that, it says not to steal or covet.

  • Hirsch

    Remember comedian George Carlin’s words. Churches have a right to get into political issues, but once you throw your hat into the ring, it’s time to pay the price of admission like everyone else. Either give up your tax-exempt status or stick to the script (i.e. the Bible).

  • Rick

    How is it un-Christian to be law abiding? Did not God himself give us laws with which to abide? How is it unloving to require those that have broken laws to pay for their lawlessness? We’re not giving them lethal injections or the electric chair. We are saying that we have clear laws when it comes to illegal entry and if you violate those laws, there are consequences. In this case, the consequences are to leave and go somewhere else. There are plenty of places in the US that are sanctuaries for illegals. Alabama is NOT one of them.

  • Hubba Hubba

    You can bet that most of these church leaders’ minions, whether clergy or lay, are going to be rote preaching this message of love to their flocks in the coming weeks. In their collective eyes, there is little worth preserving in white America; I just wish they would come out and say what they really mean.

  • Allan

    I wonder if any of these mainline Christian authorities have ever read the 13th chapter of Romans, which tells us to submit to the rule of law. They should be preaching to the illegals, telling them to obey the law and return to their own country.

  • Alexandra

    Perhaps they need to study Acts 17:26 a bit more closely:

    And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

  • WR the elder

    I note that “Christian principles” seem to change with the political winds. Mark my words, in 20 years the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church, and even the Roman Catholic Church will express outrage at any laggard states that still forbid homosexual marriage. They will say that such laws violate Christian principles.

    Remember when that happens that you read it here first.

  • Question Diversity

    Leaders of the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church and the Roman Catholic Church have all criticized the law as running counter to the Bible’s teaching about loving others.

    Responses:

    1. The IRS is calling. They want their tax exempt status back. Yes, I’m being glib, but the good news in theory is that a WN/RR President could revoke these churches’ 501-c-x status unilaterally, because the President (implicitly, as the boss of the IRS) grants them unilaterally.

    2. “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and Render unto God what is God’s.” Plain words, Christians are both believers in a faith tradition and part of a civil society. I take this verse as an implicit commandment for separation between church and state (a reasonable one, not the crazy paranoid ACLU variety), and also an implicit message that believing in Christ is by no means a promise of worldly riches, or anything in this world. (Christ himself said that His kingdom was not of this world). You might be a Christian, but you’re also an earthly human, who has earthly responsibilities and obligations. Christ basically said here that it’s not His business to make your country free, or to alter immigration policy in countries where His believers might reside.

    3. As such, Christians should not compel civil and public legislation to be square with the Bible. Even if you want to ignore most of it and focus on the few passages which could be interpreted to mean that we should “love others.” Obviously you want public law to recognize and protect the freedom of religion, because that helps Christians. But it also protects every other faith, and also agnosticism and atheism. You need not be Christian to advocate for freedom of/from religion.

  • Anonymous

    2 — anonymous wrote at 5:53 PM on June 17:

    “Christian principles, my Aunt Fanny. The Bible says to be in subjection to the governing authorities, and besides that, it says not to steal or covet.”

    The Bible says about anything anyone wants it to say, it seems. There’s a play for every situation. But there’s nothing that says Christianity is only for white people.

    6 — Allan wrote at 6:11 PM on June 17:

    “I wonder if any of these mainline Christian authorities have ever read the 13th chapter of Romans, which tells us to submit to the rule of law. They should be preaching to the illegals, telling them to obey the law and return to their own country.”

    I guess you never read, Civil Disobedience? When man creates unjust laws, it is a holy, Christian duty to right the wrong. I don’t support amnesty, I’m just saying that this is no argument.

    7 — Alexandra wrote at 7:06 PM on June 17:

    “Perhaps they need to study Acts 17:26 a bit more closely:

    And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;”

    I wonder how you were scored in reading comprehension in school? This run on sentence first denies race, saying that all people are one blood in God’s eyes. Then, it says that since they are all one in God’s eyes, there is no need to travel to seek him. It has nothing to do with the governing of ethnic or racial populations. If your interpretation was true, then Joseph and Mary sinned in leaving Israel to hide from Herod in Egypt, and Moses sinned along with all the 12 tribes in leaving slavery in Egypt.

    The Bible is no help in dealing with modern political and social problems. Those who attempt to use it as such will find themselves looking foolish to everyone every time.

  • Anonymous

    8 — WR the elder wrote at 7:30 PM on June 17:

    “I note that “Christian principles” seem to change with the political winds. Mark my words, in 20 years the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church, and even the Roman Catholic Church will express outrage at any laggard states that still forbid homosexual marriage. They will say that such laws violate Christian principles.

    Remember when that happens that you read it here first.”

    They always have. That is why the word “Catholic” was the name of the Western church. It actually combined old pagan beliefs and practices with patiarchal Judaism, which is what Christianity actually is. One good example is the Trinity. Many bloody purges in early Christianity occurred over this issue. The irrational interpretation won out. How three gods became one is a theme for theologians thesis. But Paul was clear in use and adaptation of Hellenic forms in creating Christianity. Pauline Christianity stood apart and separate from what was in Jerusalem, and the NT records that he was attacked by them for his blasphemy. Roman police had to rescue him. He retaliated by demonizing the Jews. That worked really well.

  • andreas

    These people basically think it is immoral for Whites to protect their nation and themselves from dispossession and from massive Third World immigration and the hostile Third World nationalism that comes with it. I think it’s immoral of them to open the borders, or at least want them open, to anyone and everyone without the slightest concern for their own people and the future they’re creating for their children, all so they can feel morally superior.

  • Anonymous

    Our present laws are based on foundations laid down in the Greek and Roman empires, and influenced in practice by our Nordic European values.

    The early Greek, Roman and Nordic peoples whom we owe our laws to practiced polytheistic forms of spirituality, not Christianity.

  • fred

    #1 — White, Jewish, and Proud

    You won’t hear me defending any of them. I will only point out that it was the “leaders” of those denominations and not the members. The stats I’ve seen suggest that most of the members do NOT support this. Not that the leadership won’t try to sway them now that the cat is out of the bag.

    Now, I’ve a question for you — I’ve noticed that with most denominations (including Jewish) the leadership is much further to the left than the general membership. Any thoughts as to why?

  • WKSIII

    Truth is, church attendace is way down. A flood of Christians and potential Christians looks like dollar signs for the church. Of course it won’t turn out that way at all, but the church is always a few years behind the rest of the liberal world.

  • Anonymous

    The Mormons are against tough imigration laws? Heck, about 10 years ago a black person could not preach in a Mormon church or become an Elder. There were just a few token members.

    Brother Al Sharpton on Mormons.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lGi0SS4w6I

  • Anonymous

    Nice to see that the Mormons have drank the kool-aid.

    Mormons on blacks. 60 Minutes story.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6oK2bFEeyU

  • white advocate – Canada

    The churches are not leaders here. The churches are enforcing values created by sociology professors and others in anthropology, social work, and cultural studies. It is the universities that have the prestige and authority to take the lead. If we want to restrict immigration, we have to understand the history of how universities took this direction.

  • Question Diversity

    13 Fred:

    The most common explanation I get from (really) conservative pastors is that churches and synagogues drift left because the most liberal parishioners are the ones that are the most vociferous and do the most complaining should they hear something with which they disagree from the front. The only exception is if the church has a (really) conservative reputation, in which case it won’t have any liberal parishioners, much less any neo-liberals (aka neo-cons).

  • Frank

    Using Church “logic,” we would let in the world population if they want to come.

  • Anonymous

    Dear Mr. White, Jewish, and Proud

    “Perhaps those who insist it’s those pesky Jews who are responsible for the push for citizenship for illegal aliens should read this.”

    Jewish organization have been agitating for Third World non-White immigration into America for over a century. Why the author left them out is food for thought.

    There are probably over 1,000 Jewish organization helping Third World immigrant get into the USA. The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS) places not only Jewish immigrants but places tens of thousands of immigrants into America; the only qualification is that they be non-White.

    There is the Council Migration Service of Philadelphia and here in Cleveland we have Jewish Federation of Cleveland about which The Plain Dealer reporter Robert Smith states, “Now the Jewish community is poised to parlay its immigrant expertise [bringing in 6,000 Jews from Russia and refugees from Vietnam] once again. It’s assuming a leadership role in the effort to create an international welcome center in Cleveland.”

    Every big city in America has a Jewish organization helping Third World immigrant to American goodies. Antte Kahane and Barbara Lerner Spectre do the dirty work in Europe

  • ATBOTL

    “Perhaps those who insist it’s those pesky Jews who are responsible for the push for citizenship for illegal aliens should read this.”

    Jewsish organizations have been aggressively lobbying for open borders in the USA for about a hundred years now. They played an instrumental role in passing the 1965 immigration act. The fact that Christian churches have recently joined in no way invalidates the claim that Jews played a decisive role in opening America’s borders.

  • Jack D.R.

    Respectfully, to poster number 1:

    I have read your posts in the past: They show thoughts of an intelligent person and a person to whom is proud of his or her heritage (or you would not use the ID to which you identify yourself).

    It is multiculturalism that has created this predicament for the European American/European. This dilemma was created in a country which was designed and designated by European Americans/Europeans for European Americans/Europeans. While the European American/European may blame any one of many groups, the fault rests and is placed within our own. Within the country of America, when the church, branches of government, education, etc. move contrary and against the foremost interest and primary welfare of the European American/European then a betrayal has occurred. The mindset of all institutions, located within this country of America, should be for the betterment of European Americans/Europeans.

  • White, Jewish, and Proud

    13 — fred wrote at 6:56 AM on June 18:

    “Now, I’ve a question for you — I’ve noticed that with most denominations (including Jewish) the leadership is much further to the left than the general membership. Any thoughts as to why?”

    I can only speculate as to why that is. My suspicion is that the leadership of virtually all religions lead a somewhat insular life, Most, I would think, do not live as their congregants do.

    That is to say these leaders do not live a workaday life. They do not mingle with the masses during the course of their day. They do not have to work with blacks and Hispanics. They do not have to live next door to them. They do not have the myriad of experience that comes with a lifetime of contact with violent, ignorant, white-hating blacks. They do not see or hear the Mexicans hanging around the 7-Eleven or Quick Stop leering and making crude sexual remarks at their wives and daughters.

    One removed from daily life as millions know it can afford the luxury of being philosophic and sanctimonious. I think this also applies to affluent liberals (Jews included), naive and ldealistic college students, actors, journalists, TV news morons, et al.

    Take Michael Bloomberg, for example. How many times in his life do you think he has come in contact with an ignorant, violent, white-hating black thug in his life? Or a bishop, a priest, a rabbi, or some college kid fresh off the farm in Nebraska? None. They can roll the window up on their cars as they drive through the ‘hood. They don’t have to walk down the street and rub shoulders with them. They don’t suffer the beatings from flash mobs, the murders, the robberies, the rapes, etc.

    To my way of thinking, that is the reason why. They live an alien existence vis-a-vis your average American.

    What’s your take on the matter?

  • Erik

    If these churches are going to adopt positions which are clearly against our people then I would urge whites to leave those churches. Start your own Methodist, Baptist, Anglican and Catholic (sedevacantist) churches which do not support illegal immigration or anti-white measures.

    Let’s stop supporting our enemies through churches which sold out our people a long time ago. Start your own church or find an independent one without a liberal open border political agenda.

  • Question Diversity

    I don’t really try to argue religion with people, for two main reasons: One, my powers of persuasion are disappointingly poor, and two, religion is a very personal matter.

    However, when these kinds of stories come up (this one plus the ones about the Southern Baptists this week) on AR, we can always count on a usual number of cases made against Christianity from an intellectual standpoint. The best person in that regard is the regular poster Whiteplight, who has not yet showed up on one of these threads.

    My criticism of that mentality isn’t to say that you all are wrong, or right. My big hangup is that the right wing, both racial and non-racial, suffers from a “silver bullet” delusion, that we need to do one thing, and every thing else will fall like dominoes, and then we’ll be living in paradise.

    Examples of such thinking on the non-racial right are: Repeal the Federal Reserve, revoke certain (dead letter) emergency war powers acts dating back to the WWI/WWII eras, repeal (ineffectual) Presidential executive orders going back to FDR or JFK or something that ancient. To be sure, I want banking reform, including but not limited to jettisoning the Federal Reserve. And I would favor repealing these EOs and “emergency powers” acts if doing so mattered. But just doing those things won’t result in paradise.

    On the racial right, such “silver bullet” thinking usually involves either committing genocide against Jews or at the very least marginalizing so much that they have no real political, economic, social or cultural power wherever they might live. For sure, count me out of that scene. Repealing the 14th Amendment (or exposing the fraudulence of its adoption) is also a silver bullet mentality among our people.

    Those of you recommending that the White world doff Christianity seem to be part and parcel the same kind of silver bullet mentality. If we just get rid of Christianity, and its egalitarian implications, then all the dominoes of multiracialism will fall down, and no White people or group of White people will ever be so self-treacherous ever again.

    It all sounds like a best laid scheme to me.

    Evidence that it really wouldn’t work out that way can be found in some of our original homelands — Much of Western Europe has done what you recommend, forgetting Christianity. Other than the credible existence of nationalist political parties (directly a function of political systems that encourage multiple political parties), that has not made Western Europe racialist. Obviously, if Christianity makes a big comeback, that doesn’t mean Western Europe would automatically become more racialist. It’s just that there are a lot of other, more important factors at work.

  • Lauren

    Here’s what I want in a church:

    A really fine Organ, a Doppio Borgato Concert Grand, and people who can play them.

    A great Choir, and nothing but dignified music (no ‘contemporary’ drivel along the lines of “It changed my life! What could be more relevant?”) (I want J.S. Bach…not Eric Copeland..capisce?).

    Pretty rituals, and someone reading elegant religious passages in a polished voice. I want a Trance State: not an ‘awakening’.

    Somewhere to have dignified weddings and dignified funerals.

    Someplace where I can go, dressed-to-the-nines, and sit QUIETLY, pondering the love and majesty of the Creator, amid people like myself.

    A plus would be a heated Swimming Pool on a Holy Land theme (Palm Trees, Italian Cypresses, Pines clipped Roman-style, Corinthian Columns, huge Swagged Urns…) I think a long pool with a temple at one end, and with Greek-style lounge chairs to invoke that ‘Bible Times’ vibe. There, I could float beneath the Palms, having serene thoughts, amid only the sort of people who think similar thoughts. So sue me.

    A good-but-optional ‘Food Services’ staff (like the big Mississippi Baptist churches have), and a Fitness Staff like they have, would be a plus.

    I’d certainly be willing to pay a twenty-thousand-Dollar Joining Fee, and tithe appropriately. And when we help people, I’d like to know the money is going to the embattled white Americans who need it the most.

    Build it, and we will come.

    _____________

    What I DON’T want in a church is some little loser with a Theology degree,telling me what I’m supposed to think, and how I’m supposed to feel. I don’t want cute stories or brow-beatings. I don’t want dogma. I don’t want to be ‘radicalized’, or ‘politicized’. I don’t want “relevance”, or even “meaning”. And most of all, I don’t want some narcissistic church hierarchy WORKING TO REPLACE MY RACE.

  • justme

    I don’t know how these denominational churches can say they believe, and then say they turn against the law of the land. And while God did not outline immigration laws, He did people the right to enact laws, and the Bible says to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and unto the Lord what is the Lord’s. So, we are to worship the Lord according to His covenant, and we are to obey the laws of our country.

    As for the churches using their pulpits for political purposes, I think that is absolutely going against God to use His house for that purpose. Their is only one purpose for the church. Our church is one of those that a long time ago, began to see the wrongs being taught in the denominations, and decided to abandon all man-made creeds and doctrines, and go to the Bible as their only authority. No, we don’t do this or that like the denominations, and no we do not use the Lord’s house to tell people how to vote or for other political purposes. I, for one, am glad I do not have to listen to a preacher who preaches against one candidate or the other. That isn’t what God intended for the churches to be for.

  • fred

    #19 Question Diversity

    #24 White, Jewish, and Proud

    I appreciate both your responses. I’ve been banging my head trying to figure it out for years but have never quite found the smoking gun. My gut feeling leads me to a similar conclusion to both of you. And I’d like to share an anecdote along those lines.

    My wife foolishly allowed the pastor of a large Southern Baptist Church into our house a couple of years ago. During the visit he caught my accent and immediately launched into a sermon about segregation and integration. Now, I grew up in a majority black city and was bussed to a school located in a housing project. I also happened to be familiar with the city where he was from and the whole area is 100% white. Indeed, the city we’re in now is 95% white. So this pastor who had always lived in overwhelmingly white cities was lecturing a white guy who had grown up in an overwhelmingly black environment about the joys of diversity. I believe that’s what you would call “Chutzpah”.

  • White, Jewish, and Proud

    21 — Anonymous wrote at 3:01 PM on June 18:

    “Jewish organization have been agitating for Third World non-White immigration into America for over a century”

    A century! Dear Mr Anonymous, where in the name of all that’s holy did you get that little piece of misinformation.

    “There are probably over 1,000 Jewish organization [sic] helping Third World immigrant [sic} get into the USA. ”

    A thousand Jewish organizations! Can you name them? Can you name 613 of them? How about 402? How about 111, 49, or even 6? I doubt if there are even that many Jewish organizations worldwide.

    “The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS) places not only Jewish immigrants but places tens of thousands of immigrants into America; the only qualification is that they be non-White.”

    Tens of thousands! That they be non white! Are you for real? Can you document these two absurdities, as well?

    22 — ATBOTL wrote at 3:04 PM on June 18:

    A hundred years! Likewise, Mr ATBOTL, where did you get that little piece of misinformation? Or is poster #22 the same as poster #21?

    Even if what the two of you say is true (which it isn’t), do you suppose Jewish organization could in any way, shape, or form compete with the gargantuan size, scope, and resources of the Catholic church?

    I think you two folks must be members of the Kevin MacDonald school of paranoia. He is the chief proponent of the theory that those pesky Jews are secretly meeting somewhere to surreptitiously undermine Western civilization.

    Perhaps the two of you would like to borrow my signed copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  • Browser

    “Alabama’s new law against illegal immigration…violates Christian principles.

    Leaders of the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church, and the Roman Catholic Church have all criticized the law as running counter to the Bible’s teaching about loving others.”

    …………………..

    Rubbish. You can “love others” without taking them into your home, allowing them to flout your laws, and rewarding them with citizenship. Does this mean we must absorb all the world? If you object to a burglar entering your home, is that not “loving others”? Must you let him stay? What ridiculous babble!

    With this declaration, the organized churches and their “leaders” have joined the camp of the enemy. These teary-eyed do-gooders, along with all the other left-wingers, are going to bring America down.

    If I had my way, these meddlesome religious “leaders” would lose their tax exemptions and be made to go to work at some productive job. I’ll bet most of them have never had a real JOB in their lives – a job where they had to WORK. They know nothing about the world of work. Yet they are cavalier about redistributing the products of others” labor.

    And yes, WJ&P, the organized Jewish groups are right in there too, although they weren’t mentioned here and they may have somewhat different motivation (further weakening the majority). Note that I said “organized”. Individual Jews and Christians (such as we) may hold different opinions, but we thinking renegades are not represented by the powerful, organized groups who claim to speak for us. They do NOT!

  • Jupiter7

    White Proud and Jewish has hit upon something. The Reverends and Priests are not in competition with nonwhites. If anything, they see nonwhites as massive market expansion for their relegious organizations. It’s their business model…growth, growth and more growth. I have no doubt the the Protestant Reverends and Catholic Priests are well aware that White American Christians are being harmed by nonwhite immigrants..they just don’t care.

    You can’t blame Jews for White Christian American political and civic inertness. It would be easy enough for White American Christians to retaliate against the Protestant and Catholic Churches. Just stop giving these Chronicles any $$$$$$$$$$$$ at collection time. If and when this happens the race-treason of the Protestant and Catholic churches will come to end…or the Reverends and Catholic Priests have to compete with Mexicans washing dishes at the local restaurants. No more free bachelor pad for the batchelor Catholic Priests. Game over.

    As things stand now, White American Christians allow their Reverends and Priests to get away with race-treason. How can you blame Jews for this?

  • Terry

    I note that “Christian principles” seem to change with the political winds. Mark my words, in 20 years the United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Church, and even the Roman Catholic Church will express outrage at any laggard states that still forbid homosexual marriage. They will say that such laws violate Christian principles.

    With the exception of the Catholics (using your list) I think they are already saying that.

  • Question Diversity

    30 WJ&P:

    You’re being a bit unfair toward Kevin MacDonald. Relative to other practitioners of that mindset, he is very much sane and level headed, and anything but paranoid, though to you that might sound like saying “the biggest minnow in the puddle.” I think that while his analysis takes some leaps of faith, it is mostly correct, but largely irrelevant, because gentile power is still far more considerable in the United States and most of the Western world than Jewish power. It’s almost like worrying about your next door neighbor getting a bigger TV than the one you have while your kitchen is on fire.

    Still, MacDonald’s “solution” to the “problem” involves demoting American, British, Australian, German, French, etc. Jews to second class citizens in all essence, with no real power of any sort, a mindset which I won’t blame you for considering to be a velvet-fisted in-all-but-literal-reality genocide. I sure wouldn’t want to be on its receiving end.

  • Anonymous

    34 — Question Diversity wrote at 12:48 PM on June 19:

    30 WJ&P:

    “You’re being a bit unfair toward Kevin MacDonald.”

    I have to disagree with you on that.

    The theme of all of Kevin MacDonald’s books (admittedly, I’ve read only one all the way through) and essays (I’ve ready many) is that there is both a conscious and unconscious global effort by Jews to undermine white, Western, Christian civilization. Couched in phrases such as “evolutionary group strategy” or other high falutin terms, it (the theme) is nothing more than a rehash of old Nazi and Czarist anti-Semitic canards: Jews are conspiring to take over the world.

    No, I have to disagree with you. If anyone’s being unfair it’s him. Kevin MacDonald’s got it bad, and that ain’t good.

    As the late Hunter S. Thompson once said: “It’s not paranoia when they really are out to get you.” And, yes, I firmly believe that Kevin MacDonald and his supporters, from the David Duke/Stormfront crowd to Phd’s, are really out to get me.

  • Jeff

    Catholic means literally universal. Major churches, be it Baptist, Mormon,Lutheran etc are catholic too. Got it now?

  • Anonymous

    Leftist Liberation Theology has turned these Churches into nothing but leftist platforms preaching “social justice”

    But its always limousine liberalism.

    Over and over when asked to contribute THEIR money to sponsor

    immigrants..and put up a bond to pay for the immigrants medical

    expenses, legal expenses, unemployment costs..etc everyone of

    these so called charitable institutions ..refuse.

  • Luke

    It might be a good time to remind the AR community that in the former Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe – the white Church leaders did the very same thing that these white Church leaders are now doing in America. Betraying their own race and aiding the enemies of all White European people on this planet by advocating for open borders and for the racial and cultural dispossession of whites, no matter where on Earth we exist.

    In the former Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe – this betrayal resulted in the vicious, violent, brutal, horrific rapes, sadistic mutilations, castrations, torture, dismemberment, and eventually mass and very gruesome murders of thousands of White South Afrikaners, many of whom were stupidly loyal church attendees.

    Hence, here is a tip for every white man, woman and child: If the preacher of your church, or if the so-called ‘leaders’ of your church or your religion are preaching white genocide, then you need to understand that these traitors are your mortal enemies and you need to disconnect yourself completely from that church or that religious baloney. Do not let them dupe and mislead you like their white-genocide promoting cohorts did to the Whites in the former Rhodesia.

    Your racial tribe and it’s survival is the #1 priority in your book of loyalty. Never forget that, fellow AR readers.

  • Harumphty Dumpty

    34 — Question Diversity wrote at 12:48 PM on June 19:

    “…MacDonald’s ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ involves demoting American, British, Australian, German, French, etc. Jews to second class citizens in all essence, with no real power of any sort,..”

    QD, I disagree with you here also. I’ve listened to many interviews with Kevin MacDonald, and that’s not the sense of the man that I’ve taken away at all. What he has said is that Jews in the white movement should acknowledge the important role that the organized Jewish community has played in bringing us to our current multicultural state.* That statement implicitly accepts Jews as part of the white movement!

    Guys like MacDonald (and myself) don’t want Jews to wear sackcloth and ashes! All we want is an honest analysis of the situation we are in and of ALL the dynamics at work in our society.

    MacDonald’s field of academic study has been Jews from an evolutionary perspective, so it’s natural that his attention is focused on Jews. Perhaps that focus causes him to give more weight to the effects of Jewish activism than is warranted. I’d be the last to know, since lacking the existence of a healthy and open (if both things are possible) debate on the subject, I don’t have enough information to come to certain conclusions except here and there. I think Jews are a very interesting people, individually and collectively, but I’m not going to spend the rest of my life studying them!

    But QD, let’s take this analysis to another level, and possibly uncover THE impediment to whole-hearted Jewish participation in this movement.

    Suppose you accept what I’ve written above about MacDonald and myself, and imagine also for a moment that all the other members of the white movement were to have equivalent views.

    Well, we all still would want a renaissance of white pride, of white identity, of white determination to make this country (or wherever we end up living) a country that is in its spirit and in its reality a white country.

    I would ask all the Jews in the white movement: How comfortable are you with that? Do you feel you would feel safe in such a society? Or, like many mainstream Jews, are you (justifiably) frightened to such a degree by what happened over a half century ago in Europe that you can’t imagine ever really feeling comfortable in a society that is very self-consciously, racially white (see Saperstein’s second statement in my post above)?

    If there’s some hope of Jews and whites coming together in a white movement and a white society, I’m not sure how the dance to accomplish that should proceed. But I think that more honest introspection and realism among both groups will have to be a part of it.

    *I’m sorry I can’t locate the interview I recall him saying that in…I believe it was in an interview with Jim Giles (who’s the sort of guy who would ask him that sort of question!) that Giles no longer has posted.

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