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Public Debate on Immigration Turns Out to Be Very French Affair

More news stories on France

Ruadhan Mac Cormaic, Irish Times, Dec. 23, 2009

THE STALLS of the Christmas market were shutting down for the evening and the icy chill left most of the old town deserted and still, but at the préfecture off Place Broglie, the biggest show in town was just getting under way. Dozens queued at the gates in the hope of a late ticket. Photographers snapped and doormen shook their heads and any innocents passing by must have wondered what class of celebrity had found himself holed up in Strasbourg’s anonymous seat of provincial administration.

What drew the crowd was not the scent of celebrity stardust, however, but an inescapably esoteric three-hour debate on the meaning of being French.

Since late October, France has been engaged in a national discussion initiated by Nicolas Sarkozy’s government to establish what unifying values define the nation. Hosted by prefects—the state’s representative in a département or region—town hall meetings on le grand débat have been taking place across the country, and their conclusions are to be collated in a report to be published next February.

Now it was Strasbourg’s turn. In the magnificent salon of the préfecture, under two great chandeliers and a portrait of president Nicolas Sarkozy, the 150 seats were filled to some local consternation—by invited politicians, academics, activists and journalists.

The format was akin to an academic symposium: a chair, two extended panel discussions, three speeches and a roving microphone.

There were no rules, said prefect Pierre-Etienne Bisch, but comments that breached incitement to hatred laws were prohibited.

This has become the most contentious ground of the grand débat. Many of Sarkozy’s opponents on the left see the project as a strategic move by him aimed at pleasing soft National Front voters in the build-up to regional elections next March.

They also warn of the dangers of a debate that has been framed in exclusionist terms.

“I get the feeling that I’ll have to hand over my identity card if I don’t meet whatever criteria come out of this national identity debate,” a young Frenchman of Turkish origin said at the Strasbourg meeting.

In the past fortnight, the voices within Sarkozy’s own political family expressing public unease have grown louder, with three right-wing former prime ministers among those who have spoken of their reservations about the project.

Adding to their discomfort has been the constant flow of news coverage portraying the debate as parody (a politician from Sarkozy’s party told a meeting that she wanted young Muslim men not to speak verlan—a slang common among young people—and not to wear their caps back-to-front) or something much more serious (days before the Strasbourg debate, a small mosque in Castres was daubed with swastikas).

In Strasbourg, the three-hour discussion was by turns stimulating, engrossing, digressive and dull. Alsace, of course, is un terrain particulier where notions of national identity are complicated by a well-developed sense of regional belonging forged from centuries of geo-political upheaval.

It is also a conservative region whose urban areas have a high immigrant population and where the National Front polls well.

After an hour devoted to hearing about the evolution of national identity as a theoretical concept, Xavier Codderens, a local National Front councillor, stood up at the back of the hall and stopped a speaker in his tracks.

“Is this a debate or a lecture,” he demanded.

“Why are we having this debate? Because we have a problem with immigration… We’ve been speaking for an hour and nobody has said the word immigration … The problem is Islam, because Islam has not been asked to integrate itself into democratic society.”

A Jewish representative immediately rose to his feet to protest, followed by a suited man in the front row.

“I’m Muslim, French and proud to be French,” he shouted.

“My father came to defend Alsace. Around France, there are hundreds of cemeteries full of Muslims who died for France.” But for the most part, the evening passed quietly, almost dutifully.

A communist with a pencil moustache said France should learn to respect multiple identities.

A precocious child from the local international school mused that people could be whatever they wanted to be.

Voltaire was invoked. Freud was cited. As ever, De Gaulle’s name was never far from anyone’s lips.

“This debate is typically French,” one speaker concluded with an air of pride and wonder.

After more than three hours, however, it never became altogether clear what all of this was for exactly.

Nobody had attempted to venture a definition of what it meant to be French. Asked by The Irish Times what she made of the debate, a young woman from Avignon rolled her eyes.

Look around, she said: there are two black faces, few Arabs, hardly any young people and far more men than women.

“This has nothing to do with what’s really going on,” she remarked.

Summarising the debate, law lecturer Thierry Rambaud told the audience that the near-consensus seemed to be that national identity was a complex amalgam of symbols and values, but that the concept itself was “evolving, fluid, constantly under construction”.

Nobody demurred.

Their job done, the crowd filed out into the adjoining room for champagne and canapés.

Original article

(Posted on December 24, 2009)

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Comments

1 — David Owens wrote at 6:42 PM on December 24:

And the great thing is, this pointless debate, rendered meaningless by the severe restrictions placed on one side, will make some people actually believe that some kind of real democracy is going here! Like a drunken old crone trying to seduce a handsome young man, such cynicism and blindness evokes both disgust and amusement.

The Roman empire maintained the facade of a republic right up to the day the last Roman emperor was deposed.

2 — UnTel wrote at 7:06 PM on December 24:

Sarkozy got elected as a National Front Lite, law-and-order candidate. After making a mess of things, he and his party are trying to make amends with voters through staged debates. From the sound of it, the real issues of race, Moslems and immigration were kept off stage.

3 — Maureen wrote at 11:50 PM on December 24:

“…a young Frenchman of Turkish origin….”

Well, that’s just not possible now is it?

Ruadhan Mac Cormaic (the journalist) is very politically correct and very pro-immigration. Take whatever he writes with a BIG grain of salt.

4 — SKIP wrote at 12:03 AM on December 25:

The problem is Islam,

This pretty much sums up the problems in the world.

5 — olewhitelady wrote at 9:31 AM on December 25:

The French know French when they see it. If one has to ask…sacre bleu!

6 — Awakened wrote at 3:44 PM on December 25:

Britain and France are most likely the first nations that are going to go. Not only are they among the weakest morally, although that applies to all White European countries, but they are the ones with the greatest influx of Muslims. We’re heading for the precipice.

7 — Anonymous wrote at 8:54 PM on December 25:

>

Britain and France have some morals and resistance. It’s not enough, but other countries are much worse. Sweden will go first, then Germany. Germany has a higher percentage of foreigners than France and lacks morals…although there is some. Sweden is simply useless. Foreign immigrants have all but taken that country over. There is NO resistance. Sweden has the highest rape rate in all of Europe. Most rapes are muslim immigrants raping Swedish women. The law cares nothing and does nothing to stop it. The conservative prime minister wants to increase immigration for cheap labor. It’s insane.

8 — jewamongyou wrote at 10:29 PM on December 25:

I think it should be recognized that there are at least two definitions of “French”. There is the ethnic one and there is the political one. Many French people are not citizens of France and many citizens of France are not ethnically French. Anybody can become a French citizen but only those whose ancestors have had roots there for a long time can be ethnically French.

Of course the whole concept of “French” is a recent phenomenon; formerly each region had its own identity, language and traditions. I think a more pertinent question would be “what does it mean to be European”.

9 — Jeddermann wrote at 1:02 PM on December 26:

“…a young Frenchman of Turkish origin….”

“Well, that’s just not possible now is it?”

That is a good question. A Turk can become French? Yes, perhaps so!

But it goes without saying that the French can NEVER become Turks?

That is the question and the problem in the proverbial nutshell?

And these “discussions” are not that. As the man said: “Is this a debate or a lecture,”


10 — Anonymous wrote at 8:00 PM on December 26:

“there are two black faces, few Arabs, hardly any young people and far more men than women”

That’s because it is the prime biological and social duty of the mature male to be engaged in politics. The survival of his genetic family is his highest purpose; I would expect every male over 25 to be there.

When the Spartans assembled for the battle of Thermopylae, the married men with offspring were appointed for the fight. Their sacrifice and dedication for the survival of their people was “obediance to Spartan’s laws” and those of nature.

White males need to abandon the television and other distractions and attend to business.

11 — Anonymous wrote at 8:07 PM on December 26:

Sarkozy likely took inspiration from the Bouchard - Taylor commission in Quebec.

The town-hall meetings were held, the report was published, and the recommendations were wishy-washy at best.

The government probably already has the weasel-wording of the final report written before the meetings come to a close. No backlash against immigration is permitted under Sarkozy the integrationalist.

12 — Anonymous wrote at 8:27 PM on December 26:

Since we are speculating on who will be the first to “go”, I would cast my vote for Belgium or the Netherlands. Both are far gone already, and both have been deeply conditioned to accept it. Of course, once this happens, there will be a rash of others to follow, or at least attempts to do so. And I can’t imagine how it will be quiet and democratic. It won’t be neat or pretty.

13 — Anonymous wrote at 4:57 AM on December 27:

“The [French] government probably has the weasel-wording of the final report already written before the meetings come to a close. No backlash against immigration is permitted under Sarkozy the integrationalist.”
_____

So true. And to think that many Frenchmen voted for Sarkozy the tough-talking “strongman” who would take care of this problem, and who was presented as a respectable alternative to LePen (who would ACTUALLY have done something about it beyond holding a national debate, which is nothing more than a publicity distraction and an opportunity to vent)!

14 — Soprano Fan wrote at 5:51 AM on December 27:

In the old USSR, the separate soviet “republics” had their own constitutions which granted more freedoms, than the U.S. Constitution.

The only problem was, the Soviet Communist Party defined freedom and its parameters.

That’s what this mealy-mouthed “conference on race” reminded me of.

15 — Anonymous wrote at 8:29 PM on December 27:

Why can’t beating up and robbing whites be covered by race hate laws? Instead, complaining about said is considered race hate. I suppose complaining about the injustice puts you under suspicion of being a race hater too.

16 — Anonymous wrote at 10:28 PM on December 29:

It’s past time for a Military Coup, in these Countries. A man like Pinochet is what most European Countries need. Pinochet would take care of the problem.


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