BBC News, October 6, 2009
Families with more than 10 children are becoming the norm among a group of traditionalist US Christians. The so-called Quiverfull families believe they are carrying out God’s work, and providing a new generation of moral leaders. The BBC’s religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott went to Illinois to meet some of them.
The way Psalm 127 talks about children has an almost military sound.
It describes them as “an inheritance, and arrows in the hands of a mighty warrior,” adding, “happy is he whose quiver is full of them”.
Many Quiverfull families do indeed sense looming battles for Christians, and often see their children as potential future leaders in fighting them.
Rev James McDonald has 10 children, aged between four and 26—an extraordinary fertility motivated by obedience to the Bible.
“We believe that they are blessings . . . to be raised up in the worship of the Lord and they will be used by him in whatever way God will call them, to fulfil the Great Commission which we find in Matthew Chapter 28,” he said.
The “Great Commission”—the duty to spread the Christian message throughout the world—is among a number of challenges Mr McDonald sees facing his family.
Among others, he cites divorce, adultery, abortion and internet pornography.
“The societal ills that we have, the challenges we have . . . we have rampant disease and bankrupt health systems because we don’t know the truth of the Bible. But as these truths are lived out in the lives of God’s people, society changes,” he said.
Declining congregations
The McDonalds are being joined in the battle by a growing number of very large traditionalist Christian families equally committed to promoting Biblical values.
When the Sanfords came to lunch, it was to celebrate the departure overseas of Garrison, one of their 13 offspring, to serve with the US marines.
They say his Christian example has already led his comrades to behave better.
When Garrison and the rest of his family drew up in a 15-seat minibus to be greeted by the McDonalds, a crowd was instantly created on the gravel outside the McDonalds’ house.
The Sanfords—who have no television at home, and who all join in the household chores—give an impression of moderation and discipline.
The siblings address their father as “sir”, and their esprit de corps is enhanced by wearing similar clothes.
Quiverfull families tend to believe in male headship—the principle, also derived from the Bible, that men should lead households.
Feminists are perhaps the fiercest critics of the budding Quiverfull movement.
They accuse it of trying to undo the equality and freedom won for women over decades of struggle, and claim that the idea of automatic male leadership is anachronistic.
But Robert Sanford sees his approach to family life both as authentically Christian, and as the best training for children to take on what he sees as the moral decay afflicting American society.
“I think we should as Christians lead in that way, and we can teach that character and teach those morals,” he said.
“To me the Bible is the best way of doing it. In my estimation, the Bible is the only way of doing it.”
At Providence Church in Morton, Illinois, the Sanfords occupy two full pews, uniformly dressed in black shirts and beige trousers or skirts.
There are several very large families here, their 15-seat mini-vans scattered across the car park.
James McDonald, the pastor here, uses the service to baptise a boy, immersing him bodily in a bath-type pool set up on the raised floor at the front of the church.
The boy’s parents watch and wrap a towel around him as he emerges.
Pastor McDonald looks out on a sea of children, mostly conservatively dressed, many of the girls with their hair covered.
But, given what he sees in other churches, he is not complacent about their numbers.
“In denomination after denomination their children are leaving in mass exodus, and this is a major major problem especially when most families only have two or three children,” he said.
“Who’s going to fill those pews in the next generation?”
There is a wider concern too that going beyond the United States to traditionally Christian regions such as Europe, Christianity seems to be dying out.
‘Race suicide’
Simply filling the world with white Christians is not what motivated either the Sanfords or the McDonalds—for them having large families was a matter of faith.
The Sanfords have adopted children from around the world.
But many of the traditionalist Christians who make up the Quiverfull movement are perplexed by the low birth rate of their co-religionists.
There is no overt talk about the need to boost white populations but, according to authors who have studied the movement, there is an underlying worry about “race suicide”.
Allan Carlson favours larger families of any background, even though he says he is, as he puts it, a “radical secularist”.
Dr Carlson heads the Howard Center for Family, Religion and Society in Rockford, Illinois, a research group arguing that a shortage of children threatens the world economy.
He says many Quiverfull families want to undermine what they regard as a “contraceptive mentality” in the West.
“The historic Christian view, Protestant and Catholic, prior to 1930, was that both contraception and abortion were incompatible with Christian faith,” he said.
“We’re starting to see some sense among conservative Protestants in America that that was the correct view, and I think that plays into the movement for larger families.”
Many of those families are linked into the wider population of traditionalist Christians by the home-schooling movement, by which it is estimated that more than two million American children are taught at home.
They share concerns particularly about “life” issues—such as abortion and stem-cell research, but about promoting other traditionalist Christian values too, in areas such as marriage.
Mr Carlson—who advocates a reversal of the industrial revolution and a return to home-based businesses centred on the family—says there is a strategic motivation behind the Quiverfull movement.
“There is a sense in which these intentionally created large families are seeing themselves as the . . . foundation of a counter-culture, which could grow, and should grow,” he said.
This counter-culture is still small, in the thousands or tens of thousands perhaps, but it does seem to be emerging as a determined force.
Quiverfull families insist that the government cannot fix America’s problems, but that their children could.
Original article
(Posted on October 9, 2009)
Comments
The problem with these people is that they support mulit-racialism, non-white immigration and race mixing. They aren’t on our side in any sense.
Just want to thank the folks at Amren.com for posting this story.
How rare is it to read about White American Judeo Christian Bible types doing something positive for our race/culture?
Great to read this story… now someone please find a way to stop these same folks from trying to “save” all of Africa by converting the heathens and bringing all of Africa to Minnesota.
It’s an old formula, attempting to outbreed your competition. Some no doubt think that this is the answer. I think that it will only within the context of a collapse of the present world. Overpopulation is driving every problem that we currently see generating and increasing before our eyes. Against the push towards a lower standard of living and a collapsing society, perhaps the religious sect is the most practical answer. AT least that still has enough political clout to allow a race to hide within and nuture itself. Too bad it is Christian though; a more indigenous European one would connect people better with their lands and real cultures. This would avoid all that “end of the world” carelessness and other problematic Christian teachings that tend to overturn the very point of an earthly racial survival movement, focusing as it tends to - on life after death and the so-called “Kingdom of Heaven.”
I predict that as much as they try, some of their children will read the Bible and wonder why they are not focusing on the more tolerant and inclusive messages of Christianity. Since these values are at the core of it, and the cycle of divisiveness will begin again, and “children will rise up against their parents and brother will fight brother.”
The fears about “race suicide” on the part of Whites are very real and very justified. It’s good to see that at least one segment of the Euro-American population — besides the Mormons, Amish and Orthodox Jews — is “being fruitful” and “multiplying.” Whether it’s in obedience to a Biblical commandment, or a conscious effort to keep us from dying out, it’s still good.
I must confess that I didn’t produce any children myself. But my mother’s family are “old hands” at it. My great-great-grandfather, an English immigrant, and his wife had eight children; three of those alone produced 30 grandchildren among them. Of course, not all lived to maturity in those days — the 19th Century. Skip one generation, and my grandfather, his brother, and two of their male first cousins fathered a total of 48 children — 41 of whom survived to maturity. And they produced 125 grandchildren. And so it goes.
The contraceptive mentality says that you should wait until you are “ready”, when of course there is really no such thing. If you have a husband who is willing to work to support a family, then you are ready. The thing is that its very difficult to find a husband who is willing to work to support a family unless he is a Bible-believing conservative Christians. So far as I can tell, most secular men just want child-free, or better yet, commitment-free, sex.
Add traditional Catholics to the mix. We tend to be more race-realist than these fundamentalists for the most part, thankfully. Many of us even refuse to associate with the “mainstream” church because it has become so liberal.
I think these families WILL make a difference. Most of them seem to be white (at least the families that I have seen) and they are both homeschooling AND limiting or eliminating TV and video games, and being very selective about magazines and internet use.
I hope the Quiverfull movement prospers.
From the article:
“The historic Christian view, Protestant and Catholic, prior to 1930, was that both contraception and abortion were incompatible with Christian faith,” he said.
“We’re starting to see some sense among conservative Protestants in America that that was the correct view, and I think that plays into the movement for larger families.”
The “historic Christian view,” both Protestant and Catholic, prior to 1930 (at least on a tacit level), was that White married White. While some of these marriages crossed ethnic lines (Irish/Italian marriages, for example), the congregation as a whole would have taken a decidedly dim view of anyone who brought a black, latino or Asiatic into the fold.
Conservative Protestants have a ways to go before they start showing real sense. By the way, the Duggars just became grandparents. Go, Duggars!
http://tv.yahoo.com/18-kids-and-counting/show/43716/news/tv.accesshollywood.com/tlcs-duggar-reality-family-welcomes-first-grandchild-20091009
Joe wrote at 5:59 PM on October 9:
Joe,
Sofita, who is deciding to reward these men with “child-free, commitment-free” sex? Are white women being lined up in a row and forced to copulate? No, of course not. And which gender is the target of feminist brainwashing, which tells them to use these contraceptives, that children are a burden and subordinate to their whims? Men can only get “commitment-free” sex if women are willing, and feminist dogmas absolutely support them in this end.
It’s also, ironically, rather denigrating towards women. The implicit premises in your arguments imply that women bend completely at the whims of men; they are “damsels in distress”. Whites need to stop and address this cancer of gender warring. If it is not addressed, it will, along with open borders, be our downfall. Unfortunately, the ball is primarily in the court of women on this issue. They must reject feminism and once again learn to love their men.
This is similar to the “Clipfull” movement among blacks, except that the Quiverfull children have the same father.
The big problem with many women who wait “for the right time” to have children is that the right time has long passed. Biologically the best time is between 18-25, the older they are the greater the possibility of birth defect.
“Men can only get “commitment-free” sex if women are willing, and feminist dogmas absolutely support them in this end.”
Very true. Women must go back to enforcing the age-old bargain. No sex without a life-long commitment. We also have to create women’s organizations that actually represent what we actually want rather than what the elites think we should want.
Gee the liberals and feminists should be applauding this movement without more properly raised white kids who will work to support their underclass? This is a great movement and I wish it had started 40 years ago.
Sorry folks, although I’m a Europid nationalist these Quiverfull increasers and multipliers give me the creeps — they’re on a par with those ultra-orthodox who seek fertility treatment if they can’t manage to have more than seven kids per mother.
I’d sooner wear an AIDS ribbon than associate with them.
This is quantity versus quality — race dysgenics in action. Of course, in purely Darwinian terms they’re certain to succeed given that the current feminist alternative is a genetic cul de sac.
Anything in between? Like 2.1 kids per momma rather than the choice between zero and twelve?
@ 15)
The last time I checked, most conservative christians supported their families without the government’s help. You can’t really peg them as the bottom rungs of society. I view the Quiverfull movement (as long as it remains white) as “quality AND quantity.” It’s having your cake and eating it too.
The only thing that worries me is that many of these children will be spoon-fed the race egalitarianism that seems to have infected every Christian I’ve come in contact with. I like the idea of this “quiverfull” movement, so long as the arrows aren’t pointed back at us!
One important factor has been overlooked, even though it was briefly mentioned in the article, economics. How exactly can these people afford to have such large families in this day and age.
I’ve noticed that people with conservative religions of all types have the highest birth rates. That’s true of traditional Catholics, fundamentalist Protestants, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, and the more hard core sects of Islam. I can not avoid the conclusion that natural selection favors a propensity for religious belief, independent of the actual truth of such beliefs, because people with such beliefs are more likely to get their genes into the next generation. As an agnostic I find this somewhat disturbing, but it is naive to assume that evolution necessarily favors higher intelligence or greater objectivity. Natural selection is nothing if not pragmatic. If genes that make you inclined to believe in a 6000 year old Earth also make you inclined to have eight children, those are the genes that will spread through the population.
Sofita, it has been my experience that women today want commitment free sex, from good looking hunky men, and don’t want children to interfere with their careers. If they do have children they certainly don’t want to raise them themselves — that’s what day care and Mexican nannies are for. My mother, now in her seventies, belongs to the last generation of white American women who did not feel ashamed to identify themselves as wives and mothers.
“…now someone please find a way to stop these same folks from trying to “save” all of Africa by converting the heathens and bringing all of Africa to Minnesota.”
The Bible says “Go, and make disciples of all men.” Key word…”GO”! Christians should support missionaries who go to Africa and convert the heathens where they live, NOT bringing them to Minnesota or anywhere else.
I grew up in an evangelical home too and the vast majority of evangelicals support multiracialism. It doesn’t matter if someone is against MULTICULTURALISM but for MULTIRACIALISM. Unless you want America to end up a non-white unicultural country like the Dominican Republic. Hardcore evangelicals tend to support non-white immigration because they see immigrants, especially poor, uneducated ones, as potential converts. They also have sentimental and paternalistic attitudes towards blacks and other non-whites.
To Carolus:
I understand where you are coming form, but I think you ignore a very basic reality, which is: more kids increase your odds of having a standout. I think too many whites have forgotten this and think they can have one or two kids, give them all the attention and schooling in the world, get them into top colleges, and that the kids will be world-beaters. But who’s to say your first kid isn’t the “lemon” of the bunch? Excellent parenting and excellent educations do not make great people. Great people are unique, and you stand a better chance of having an exceptional child if you have maybe 3 or 4. And that is what society needs. We need more white kids who are truly unique and gifted. Having 3 or 4 children isn’t going to dilute the quality at all. It will improve it. And yes, you will have a lot more mediocre people in the mix, but so what. At least they’re white.
As an agnostic I find this somewhat disturbing, but it is naive to assume that evolution necessarily favors higher intelligence or greater objectivity. Natural selection is nothing if not pragmatic. If genes that make you inclined to believe in a 6000 year old Earth also make you inclined to have eight children, those are the genes that will spread through the population.
Excuse me? What exactly do you find “disturbing” about the fact that religious people have more children? It is not my fault that you have adopted a world-view that is patently an evolutionary dead-end! By the way, only a tiny minority of Christians believe the Earth is 6000 years old. Do not believe everything the godless MSM tells you about us.
Religious people have children because we believe in a loving God who gave us life and expects us to return the favor by cooperating with him in the creation of new life. It has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with Faith.
“Sofita, it has been my experience that women today want commitment free sex, from good looking hunky men, and don’t want children to interfere with their careers.”
That’s funny. Every woman I know is either married or desperately wants to be. As for women not wanting children to interfere with their careers, no wonder! Feminists and their male allies have done everything in their power to destroy a woman’s traditional right to life-long support from her husband and they have succeeded. A woman MUST have a career to have any sort of financial security in this day and age. Women who choose to sacrifice their careers are taking a huge risk, for which I applaud them.
This really guarantees nothing. It’s whites that are turning the world upside down letting the minority races take over. It’s whites that are marrying blacks. Having white children doesn’t assure that they will be intelligent white children.
I’ve noticed that people with conservative religions of all types have the highest birth rates. That’s true of traditional Catholics, fundamentalist Protestants, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, and the more hard core sects of Islam. I can not avoid the conclusion that natural selection favors a propensity for religious belief, independent of the actual truth of such beliefs, because people with such beliefs are more likely to get their genes into the next generation. As an agnostic I find this somewhat disturbing, but it is naive to assume that evolution necessarily favors higher intelligence or greater objectivity. Natural selection is nothing if not pragmatic. If genes that make you inclined to believe in a 6000 year old Earth also make you inclined to have eight children, those are the genes that will spread through the population.
___________________
Europe got on fine while under the influence of conservatism and hard-line Christianity. In fact, they accomplished more than our degenerate atheist generation has.
I personally believe race is sacred. It should be more than a reason to have children, and lots of them. But then again, I follow the teachings of Savitri Devi, so what do I know.
The Quiverfull Movement is doing much more harm than good.
First, it is legitimizing a one-way “race to the top” mentality in which every white person in the U.S. has a duty to outbreed everyone else. The result will be a broken ecology, as our nation’s population hurtles toward 500 million, 600 million and beyond — everyone loses. If we want to maintain a white majority, we should revise immigration, refugee and asylum policy to favor whites. The primary goal should be less nonwhites, not more whites. There is a thing called overpopulation.
Second, these quiverfull homes espouse a religious extremism that most Americans (myself included) find despotic and repulsive. They are also abusive, as any number of ex-quiverfull websites document. Religious fanatics of all faiths tend to unaccomplished, backward, dogmatic and violent. Their “culture war” is all war and no culture. Example: A favored child-rearing manual geared toward Quiverfull homes by Christian fundamentalist husband and wife authors Michael and Debi Pearl. It is, quite literally, a manual for criminal child abuse. America is a forward-looking country.
My wife and I have six, all of whom we homeschool. We hope to have more and are doing our best to add to our family. The public schools are the enemy of the white race. If you love your country and race, turn your backs on the public school system.
To WR and others:
The males have the power to change this paradigm anytime.
The Russian government ought to put these people on TV every day!
As things stand, there are now fewer Russians than there are Bangladeshis, there are more abortions than live births and Russia may well become a Muslim-majority* country by 2050.
* Making predictions which require guesses about the reproductive behavior of people not yet born is notoriously erratic; in the Shah’s day Iranian women had a Third World birthrate but now the Iranian birthrate is more like southern Europe twenty years ago.
Example: A favored child-rearing manual geared toward Quiverfull homes by Christian fundamentalist husband and wife authors Michael and Debi Pearl. It is, quite literally, a manual for criminal child abuse. America is a forward-looking country.
I looked the Pearls’ methods up - they call it “training”. Seems to be very rational - in fact I developed years ago a similar approach when raising our baby son and it spared us a lot of pointless talkin’, shoutin’ and overall family distress later.
This “quiver-full” mentality is pure bunk. We DO NOT have the moral right to continue overpopulating our planet! Whether in the name of some so-called religious sect or for any other reason. Granted it’s not the White nations, stupidly outbreeding our planet’s ability to sustain us. Invariably, it’s the third-worlder countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America.
Family size is and has to be a matter of personal choice. INTELLIGENT people limit the size of their families to the number the parents can properly provide and care for. Whereas third-world mentality is to simply keep breeding — in hopes of one child becoming wealthy enough to support the rest of the family… in the meantime brandishing their beggar bowls at the world in general, the White people in particular.
I came from a large family. (8) The way to make it work is that the older children take care of the younger children. Food expenses can be pared by buying in larger quantities (usually cheaper). Hand-me-downs take care of much of the clothing situation.
sofita wrote: Excuse me? What exactly do you find “disturbing” about the fact that religious people have more children? It is not my fault that you have adopted a world-view that is patently an evolutionary dead-end! By the way, only a tiny minority of Christians believe the Earth is 6000 years old. Do not believe everything the godless MSM tells you about us.
If you reread what I wrote you will see that what I find disturbing is not that people with conservative religions tend to have more children but rather that there is little evidence that natural selection today selects for greater intelligence, and there is evidence to the contrary. I am well aware that the great majority of Christians today do not believe in a 6000 year old Earth.
“Second, these quiverfull homes espouse a religious extremism that most Americans (myself included) find despotic and repulsive. They are also abusive, as any number of ex-quiverfull websites document. Religious fanatics of all faiths tend to unaccomplished, backward, dogmatic and violent. Their “culture war” is all war and no culture. Example: A favored child-rearing manual geared toward Quiverfull homes by Christian fundamentalist husband and wife authors Michael and Debi Pearl. It is, quite literally, a manual for criminal child abuse. America is a forward-looking country.”
What a load of rubbish.
