Crowd Retraces John Brown’s Incendiary Footsteps

““To say he is a homicidal maniac misses the point,” said Kerry Altenbernd, 57, a law librarian from Lawrence, Kan. “He is someone who could not live with 4 million people in bondage and had to do something about it.””

Typical delusional, guilt-laden white. If these folks really cared about slavery, as they claim they do, they’d be marching on a daily basis demanding all forms of slavery that exist today be immediately abolished. But you see, they really only want to feel good about themselves and to rid themselves of any guilt left over for being white and being American. It has nothing to do with blacks or the institution of slavery. They only care that it was instituted by us and it was instituted here.

This story reminds me of something similar that many colleges have implemented during the past few years, a “civil rights pilgrimage,” as part of courses of study in various subjects, such as modern American history, Black Studies, etc. Led by a professor, students visit the “holy sites” of the civil rights movement: the Selma bridge, the site of the bombed Birmingham church, the Martin Luther King theme park (or whatever it is, in Atlanta), museums and other sanctified places. I don’t know if student participation is mandatory to complete their course of study, but I imagine it’s “highly encouraged” and quite chic.

Two things I remember reading about John Brown’s raid on Harpers Ferry.

1. The first person he killed was a free black who was baggage master there (the whites there respected him).

2. When Brown’s son Oliver was wounded, he begged his father to kill him and end his suffering, but Brown said “If you must die, die like a man.

John Brown was a monster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)

I cannot comprehend a mindset that believes killing is more noble than enslaving.

Maybe they should retrace his steps during the Pottawatomie, Kansas Massacre.
Brown was a sadist and terrorist.

This is from Wikipedia….
“The three men were escorted by their captors out into the darkness, where Owen Brown and one of his brothers killed them with broadswords. John Brown, Sr., did not participate in the stabbing but fired a shot into the head of the fallen James Doyle to ensure he was dead.

Brown and his band then went to the house of Allen Wilkinson and ordered him out. He was slashed and stabbed to death by Henry Thompson and Theodore Winer, possibly with help from Brown’s sons.[4] From there, they crossed the Pottawatomie, and some time after midnight, forced their way into the cabin of James Harris at sword-point. Harris had three house guests: John S. Wightman, Jerome Glanville, and William Sherman, the brother of Henry Sherman (“Dutch Henry”), a militant pro-slavery activist. Glanville and Harris were taken outside for interrogation and asked whether they had threatened Free State settlers, aided Border Ruffians from Missouri, or participated in the sack of Lawrence. Satisfied with their answers, Brown’s men let Glanville and Harris return to the cabin. William Sherman was led to the edge of the creek and hacked to death with the swords by Brown’s sons, Winer, and Thompson.[5]”

I wonder if one of us led an open rebellion against the the United States, if we would be held in such high esteem?

When Brown was living im the Kansas - Missouri border area, practically all the whites he killed were southern whites who wanted to get away from slavery, because it depressed the working mans’ wages.
He was a psychopath and they know it and they still idolize him.
Self aters one and all.

So Robert E. Lee is a war criminal, while the kidnapper and psychopath John Brown is a hero? John Brown not only wanted to free the slaves (which could have been done peacefully over time) he wanted a race war between blacks and whites. Nathaniel Hawthorne said no man was more justly hanged.

4 — Anonymous wrote at 10:57 PM on October 19:

“I cannot comprehend a mindset that believes killing is more noble than enslaving.”

I submit to you that this is because you have not been a slave. To live in fear without any control over your own personal destiny day to day, seems to be what we whites are so angry about right now. Most here seem willing to die for their principles of freedom and the growing feeling that their race is marked for extinction, which is a debatable point. The actuality of race suppression by non-whites is in effect slavery.

I do not particularly support John Brown. But I encourage posters to read up on the history and what historians say about him. Not all are in accord. To me, he was a product of what was then an overly zealous, religiously inspired AND propelled anti-slavery movement. I could defend the historic line that demonstrates the evolution and cross pollination of the radical Northern Protestant movements to the Abolitionists and their pre-determinated wish for a huge blood-letting. They wanted an Amaggedon and they used the issue of Slavery to get it. Remember John Brown’s gallows speech. He called out for that blood letting. Elsewhere in England and Europe, slavery was ended without a shot being fired. Read up on American history from the Colonies on and think about it for a while.

I like AmRen, but Taylor et al go off the deep end sometimes. What’s wrong with John Brown? Do you people have a problem with all abolitionists? Do you people also hate Thoreau, who considered Brown a martyr?

A typical clueless response:

“I cannot comprehend a mindset that believes killing is more noble than enslaving.”

Killing a rapist, murderer, or slave owner is not the same as killing an innocent man. Would you not kill a man who is in the act of raping a child? How is killing a slave owner different?

# 10 , then we can assume that had you been around in 1776 , you would’ve had Thomas Jefferson , George Washington and James Madison killed ? Old John Brown would’ve been proud to have you riding with him .

I’m impressed that there seems to be greater diversity (oops! hate that word!) among comments that usual. Whiteplight, you make a good point about the religiously fueled frenzy of the more extreme abolitionists. And yes, the US was the only major nation unable to abolish slavery peacefully. I think it had a lot to do with the religious nature of the country. But I also think the passions and extreme behavior inspired by America’s religiosity has contributed to other, less bloody achievements (although some were sanguinary enough) that built up this country to be so incredibly powerful and prosperous. The winning of the West, the amazingly rapid economic development, even the general development of the country — this, for good or bad, is American as apple pie.

”# 10 , then we can assume that had you been around in 1776 , you would’ve had Thomas Jefferson , George Washington and James Madison killed ?”

Answer: If I could, I’d give them an ultimatum. If that didn’t work, I’d force them at gun point to release the slaves. The fact that Jefferson was otherwise a great man didn’t give him the right to own slaves. What do I care WHO owns slaves? Those who do must face the consequences.

The theme I notice on AmRen regarding slavery is that while slavery was wrong, doing anything about it was even more wrong. Most of you have the attitude that slavery was a passive evil, something from above that no one has any right to do anything about. That’s where I you and I split paths.

For poster #10 I think you make the mistake, as do many others,
of judging people like Washington, Jefferson, etc. by the values of the 21st Century. These men were born into an 18th century world in which slavery, as well as many other practices that we would consider harsh and intolerant were then commonly accepted. They must be judged by the standards of their era. It is my firm belief that given the opportunity, people like Martin L. King or Jesse Jackson or perhaps even you or me, had we lived then, would have been slaveholders.

Publius,

You make a reasonable point. We could have a whole philosophical discussion about whether contemporary mores justify behaviors, but that would take us very far away. How about pederasty in ancient Greece? We could go on and on.

As for the founding fathers owning slaves, I said I’d force them to release the slaves; I didn’t say I’d shoot them, although these are the words other commentators tried to put in my mouth.
The bottom line is that Brown and company saw evil and did something about it, whereas many AmRen folk seem to think that slavery was like the weather - you can talk about it, but you can’t - nay, YOU SHOULDN’T - do anything about it.

I couldn’t help but join in. Someone had already beaten me to the punch. I would exercise care before judging people in the 18th centure with 21st century eyes. I do like the open and intelligent discussion on this site. There are a lot of thoughtful statements being made.

I do not think anyone would dispute that slavery is wrong. Especially with our Western values. However, from what I’ve read, it still goes on today in cultures with an Eastern tilt. If I were John Brown, I probably would have done the same thing as I am sure a lot of AMREN’ers would do. However, again the perspectives are different. Many blacks at that time were not born into freedom and never really had a concept of it. Otherwise, there would surely would have been more violence. Many thinkers born in the US today may take it for granted from time to time but would agressively defend it if were overtly threatened. Something we are gradually seeing today. The voices do seem to be getting louder.

In the end, it is kind of ironic. The institution that John Brown tried to exact his revenge on is ultimately responsible for the largest transfer of wealth in world history. Blacks have been living off Whites for far too long. It’s been a way of life for many of them for generations so maybe John has gotten his revenge.

The world’s on fire and while they are some of the greatest men that ever lived; I would have some cross words for Washington, Jefferson and the rest of the gang that could have gotten the blacks out of our country at the beginning…I wonder where we would be if that had been so…ahh to only dream.

I am sorry, I’d never, ever, heard of this John Brown. Was he a Yankee or a Southerner?

I am sorry , I cannot understand the mindset of conservatives who would have supported John Brown . The five men he killed at Pottawatomie had not broken any laws . They simply disagreed politically with Brown .They were defenseless , he murdered them in cold blood , horribly mutilating the corpses . Two of them , William Doyle age 22 and his brother Drury 20 , were scarcely more than boys . Brown left two women widows and a lot of fatherless children behind that night with his onslaught . He was a dismal failure at everything he endeavored so I guess this was his last ditch effort to amount to more than just a hill of beans . He tried shamelessly to ingratiate himself to Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass with his delusional rants , both of whom very quickly realized he was a madman . I cannot see any redeeming qualities in him . The African was by far better off in America than he would have been elsewhere and that is exactly where over 92% of the Atlantic slave trade went was elsewhere . And was even better off than if he had remained in his homeland , Africa , living a prehistoric , tribal existence at best . In my opinion the only thing left that is even debatable , is the sad legacy that has been left to us by having him in our midst . And the Founders and other planters could not have possibly foreseen that . I think it was Alexander Stephens who said , “Where ever the white man plants his foot he conquers .” That certainly would not apply nowadays , that is how much we have changed . Most men of that era were duly proud of their European history . Men like Brown were the first of the grovelers and capitulators .

“The five men he killed at Pottawatomie had not broken any laws.”

Were they slave owners? Slavery was not illegal, therefore of course they have not broken any laws.

“Two of them , William Doyle age 22 and his brother Drury 20 , were scarcely more than boys.”

They were men. They’d be considered men today, and they were definitely considered men at that time. What a lame line! What does their (adult!) age have to do with anything?

“The African was by far better off in America than he would have been elsewhere…”

Perhaps, but why does that matter? I consider people who are blind and in a wheelchair to be better off dead than alive; does that give me the right to kill them?

If you support slavery, just come out and say it. You’d hardly be alone on this site.