Daniel Flynn and Ian Simpson, Reuters, Sept. 17, 2009
The deaths of 73 African migrants who drifted for three weeks in the Mediterranean without rescue have heightened concern about Italy’s crackdown on immigration, opening cracks in its ruling coalition and a rift with Brussels.
{snip}
Italy is the first landing-point in Europe for many migrants from Africa and tragedies in the Mediterranean have become a fixture of the migration season, but since Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi toughened its immigration laws, things have changed.
{snip}
In Italy, the survivors were placed under guard. Unless they win asylum, they may face detention under legislation passed in July making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant or help one.
{snip}
Rome’s hard line has strained relations with the European Commission, which last month called for an investigation into the repatriations to Libya. Berlusconi threatened to block all EU business unless Commission spokespeople were silenced.
“We need more than words,” Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said last month, denying Italy was responsible for the tragedy. He said frontier states were being unfairly burdened by illegal migration to the 27-nation bloc: “This is a European problem.”
Current EU President Sweden has vowed to discuss migration at an October summit, but analysts say it could be hard to curb mounting racism in Italy as the global crisis ups unemployment.
FAR RIGHT NOT MARGINAL
Italy’s crackdown was promoted by the far-right Northern League, a lynchpin of Berlusconi’s coalition, following a 75 percent leap in migrants arriving by sea last year to 37,000.
The measures, which include legalizing citizens’ patrols to enforce law and order, cut the number of migrants landing in south Italy between May and August to less than a tenth of last summer’s 10,000 and struck a chord with many Italians, worried by mass immigration and rising crime.
One TV poll said 71 percent thought the five survivors of last month’s boat tragedy should be tried as illegal immigrants.
“There is no doubt that racism is becoming more visible … and it’s going to get worse: partly because of the economy,” said James Walston, professor of Italian politics at the American University in Rome. “It’s dangerous because the far right in most countries is marginal. Here it is not.”
But Italy’s influential Catholic Church has spoken out. Days after the boat tragedy, its newspaper Avvenire likened Italians’ indifference with those who ignored the Holocaust, sparking a war of words with the League and driving already tense relations with the government to a new low.
Even in Berlusconi’s party, parliament speaker Gianfranco Fini, its second most important figure, has voiced unease.
Fini has called on the government to sideline the League and offer immigrants the vote. “We need strong censure of any show of racism and xenophobia,” he said.
League leader Umberto Bossi, who brought down Berlusconi’s first government in 1994, branded Fini’s comments “suicide” and threatened to force elections unless the reforms remained.
Crime was the focus of a bitter election last year, with a campaign by Berlusconi-owned media whipping up public anger at crimes by Roma and eastern Europeans. EU statistics show a 17 percent rise in violent crime between 2004 and 2007 in Italy, outpacing a 3 percent rise for the European Union.
{snip}
Ironically, economists say Italy’s fast-graying population means it may have need of immigrants.
A Bank of Italy report in August found that immigrants—comprising 1.8 million workers or 8 percent of the workforce—do not take jobs from locals, and even enabled Italian women to seek work, by freeing them from domestic chores.
Mass immigration, unheard of 20 years ago, is fast changing society. Last month an Italian team of children of migrants from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh won an under-15 European cricket title, making headlines and winning praise from politicians like Fini.
The team, some of whom face deportation unless they receive citizenship, dedicated the victory to Northern League leader Bossi.
“This is the first European title in the history of Italian cricket,” said Italian Cricket Federation President Simone Gambino. “It shows immigrants bring prestige to our country, not just problems.”
Original article
(Posted on September 21, 2009)
Comments
Northern League is a far right party, what a joke, anytime in history this would be called patriotism, normal.
Cricket? Another joke, who cares about some trophy won by foreigners, the spin is unbelievable.
India, Pakistan and Bangladesh simply overbred their resources and are looking for more territory.
We are simply flooded by third worlders, very little chance to win.
This has nothing in common with the Holocaust. The Holocaust victims were……..victims. The illegal immigrants are uninvited, law breaking invaders!
Well the Vatican can take the refugees in then as they clearly wouldn’t advocate what they themselves would not do! And cheers for Berlusconi who apparently has kept his testicles in tact as opposed to the commission. These immigrants come for white women and the Italian men perhaps would prefer to remain Italian… The modern(white) world has sent untold foods and aids of all kinds to the subsaharan people but they will not be satisfied until they can impregnate white women! Compassion should not be confused with stupidity! Perhaps before these invaders set out they might want to respect the law and sovereignty of other nations.
Simone Gambino is a a fool and a traitor.
“Last month an Italian team of children of migrants from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh won an under-15 European cricket title, making headlines and winning praise from politicians like Fini. This is the first European title in the history of Italian cricket,” said Italian Cricket Federation President Simone Gambino. “It shows immigrants bring prestige to our country, not just problems.”
If Italy imports more of these prestigious Indians, Pakistanies and Bangladeshies, then Italy will come more and more to resemble those very societies. That would be very prestigious, yes?
As I said, Gambino is a fool!
Email segreteria@crickitalia.org
Current EU President Sweden has vowed to discuss migration at an October summit, but analysts say it could be hard to curb mounting racism in Italy as the global crisis ups unemployment.
It is interesting to me that the EU observers immediately see “racism,” rather than “nativism,” or “nationalism,” even though a third or more of the foreign population in Italy is white, many of them illegal Eastern Europeans, something unmentioned in the article.
It is a pretty clear sign that the EU sees the immigration of non-whites as the key to bringing down Italy (as many other places), and doesn’t particularly care about white immigrants, or else they wouldn’t have used that particular term.
Nothing angers me more than when they try and make it seem as though European countries will benefit, by replacing a “aging” indigenous population, with a younger foreign non-European one. After Italy’s recent riots by African immigrants, some of them were saying Italy needed to accept their tirades since they are vitally important to it’s future. Italy can’t remain Italy, if it’s indigenous population is replaced by Africans, Indians, and Pakistani’s. Who wants to vacation there and have them rowing the gondolas? And who wants curry in their lasagna? Europe is being destroyed by these parasites.
If they’re so concerned about invaders drowning in the sea, perhaps they should consider confronting those African nations from whence they came. It is the Africans’ job to protect their own people from unsafe excursions to sea.
The wish to protect your own bloodline, in its own native land, is not “racism”. It is patriotism and common sense.
“There is no doubt that racism is becoming more visible … and it’s going to get worse: partly because of the economy,” said James Walston, professor of Italian politics at the American University in Rome”
Who cares?! Worries about alleged “racism” should be given no consideration at all — zero tolerance! They should have nothing to do with the debate. (Indeed, why should there even be such a debate?) Otherwise, there is little hope of confronting and dealing with the “immigration” problem in any effective manner so long as people remain in fear of the terrible “R” word. This allegation is merely a strategy of the Left. It is too easy to conflate guarding the borders and having immigration controls with “racism”. Where do you draw the line? You will always be open to that charge. Pay them no heed.
Vatican City has a big wall around it. Becoming a citizen of Vatican City is almost impossible. The Pope isn’t setting a very good example for his open borders policy.
An ‘Italian’ cricket team (actually consisting of sub-continental Indians).
If Italy’s “graying population” genuinely needs imported workers, then the government should negotiate with Japan to purchase some of those robots that are hard at work in that country. Just reprogram them to speak Italian instead of Japanese. Then those Indians, Pakis and Bengalis can return home and play cricket for their own national teams.
Italy has absolutely nothing to gain from the arrival of Non-Whites. Nor does any other White country.
Italy is undergoing a severe recession. Why does it need the so-called migrants (illegal immigrants)? Factories are closing left and right. When you don’t have a job, who cares if the children of illegal immigrants won a cricket championship? I don’t recall cricket being a traditional Italian game.
Despite the fall of the dollar agains the euro, I still go to europe every 3 years for vacation. I love Italy anyway, so my next vacation will be Italy.
Why go to England where that 18 percent sales tax paid on everything goes to support their alien, immigrant welfare class?
Vatican City has a big wall around it. Becoming a citizen of Vatican City is almost impossible. The Pope isn’t setting a very good example for his open borders policy.
“An ‘Italian’ cricket team (actually consisting of sub-continental Indians).
In the past, I have worked in various agency jobs to make ends meet. I worked in a food processing factory where about 50% of the staff were from places such as Malawi, Kenya and Uganda. I don’t know if they produced spaghetti, but I’m sure somewhere there is a place such as you describe!!
Re cricket: It’s absurd to talk about “national prestige,” when neither the activity (cricket) nor the participants (Dravidians) are even remotely Italian. The hiring of mercenaries is at direct odds with the concept of national pride.
Would it bring “prestige” for Bangladesh to import the Italian soccer team to crush the opposition at the Asian Soccer Cup? No — it looks pathetic and unsportsmanlike, like the unscrupulous coach who puts 8th graders in to play at a 6th grade basketball game.
India, Pakistan and Bangladesh simply overbred their resources and are looking for more territory. We are simply flooded by third worlders, very little chance to win.
You have a point here. But a similar point could be made of the untold millions of Europeans not so long ago (Italians among them), who flooded North and South America over the past few centuries, reducing the indigenous populations to a tiny proportion of their respective lands.
The Italian diaspora, I believe, numbers up to 70 million people (full or part Italian). Italy’s population itself is only 56 million. Thus there are more overseas Italians than there are Chinese.
Many of these Italians would have benefitted from the genocide and destruction of the Australian aborigines, the gencide and destruction of Argentina’s Pampas Indians, and the displacement of many of Brazil’s indigenous peoples.
So really, on a grand racial accounting of things, Italians (nor indeed many other white ethnic groups), should have little to complain about.
But of course if we are talking about whether it is in the interest of Italians to let in huge numbers of third worlders, and whether or not would benefit much from such an influx - the answer to both of these questions, I would have to agree, would be a big negative.
Why don’t they play their cricket in their own countries?
And yes, a cricket team made up by Indians is actually not an “Italian” cricket team.
The Italian diaspora, I believe, numbers up to 70 million people (full or part Italian). Italy’s population itself is only 56 million. Thus there are more overseas Italians than there are Chinese.
You are wrong, Mr. Liu. There are no 70 million Italians abroad. They are Americans, Argentinians, Brazilians or Australians of Italian descent, like other white Europeans who became good citizens of their new countries.
But the Chinese diaspora are still the Chinese as race matters…
“So really, on a grand racial accounting of things, Italians (nor indeed many other white ethnic groups), should have little to complain about.”
So I don’t get your point here? Two wrongs make a right? I’m not aware of Italians benefiting from the displacement of Australian aborigines. Italians are a recent group of immigrants to Australia. In addition, most of the early settlers to Latin America were Spanish. The Italians came later, after the decline of the indigenous peoples. South America at the time of European settlement was an undeveloped continent with basically a pre-industrial Stone Age culture. Vast areas of the continent (outside the Inca areas) were either unpopulated or sparsely populated. I don’t think we can judge the people of three hundred years ago by contemporary liberal/leftwing standards. The conditions of life were quite different hundreds of years ago.
Mr Liu (nice to see you again! We never finished a certain discussion past), I don’t believe that the “grand racial accounting of things” matters anything, but just to show the absurdity of your way of thinking, I have to point out that in such a grand racial accounting, Europeans are the creditors, not the debtors.
On one hand, North America and Australia were very, very sparsely populated when Whites first got there. I don’t have charts at hand, but I wouldn’t be surprised that the number of Native Americans alive today is greater than the number at the time of Columbus.
On the other hand, consider the 1200 years of enslavement of Whites at the hand of Muslims -the word slave coming from the abundance of light-haired Slavs at the Levantine markets-, consider the large scale massacres of Europeans during the Mongol invasions (those invaders probably being relatives of yours, Liu), consider all the money we pour into Africa, consider that we gave up our hard-gained empires just because we’re so generous.
Still, I don’t believe that all this entitle us to kvetch and complain forever about being victims of a cosmic injustice, and/or demand reparations from other races, this being what I know you advocate for China.
“There are many more Han Chinese living in Tibet than there are Tibetans, from the indigenous Tibetan point of view, the mass immigration and displacement of Tibetans from their ancestral land has been disasterous.
On the other hand, consider the 1200 years of enslavement of Whites at the hand of Muslims -the word slave coming from the abundance of light-haired Slavs at the Levantine markets
Nothing to do with me. Those Muslims probably look a good deal more like you than they look like me.
consider the large scale massacres of Europeans during the Mongol invasions (those invaders probably being relatives of yours, Liu)
There were invasions to be sure, and the Mongols cut the European troops like cattle - analogous to the way the Europeans cut down Zulu tribesmen many centuries later.
Most of the real atrocious massacres, of course, were against the Chinese, Persians, and Arabs.
We Asiatics patiently await the same - for all whites to leave the Americas, to leave Australasia, and get back to Europe. When that happens, whites can then demand that Europe be for whites only. Before that time you will be nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
On one hand, North America and Australia were very, very sparsely populated when Whites first got there. I don’t have charts at hand, but I wouldn’t be surprised that the number of Native Americans alive today is greater than the number at the time of Columbus.
Apparently the consensus estimate is about 50 million in North America alone.
But the argument is rather absurd, because Australia is still vastly underpopulated compared with a country like Indonesia - so does that give Indonesians the moral right to invade Australia?
Siberia and the Russian Far East is sparsely underpopulated, but I would expect most people here would oppose even something as reasonable as the Chinese claiming the parts of Russia that were originally hers.
In any case, if you were consistent Italian man, you would understand that it is not absolute numbers that are important - it is the proportion of the population that matters - how big a slice of the pie you have.
I’m sure you would be unhappy with Italians becoming a minority in Italy - and would not be satisfied by the newcomers justifying this by saying - ‘look, there are still more Italians (in absolute numbers) now than there were total number of Italians (or Italic type people) 500 or 1000 years ago!’
Still, I don’t believe that all this entitle us to kvetch and complain forever about being victims of a cosmic injustice, and/or demand reparations from other races, this being what I know you advocate for China.
Agreed. A victim mentality is self-destructive. But I don’t come from a ‘victim’ perspective. I like to keep the reparations thing on the table (as I think China should do), as a bargaining chip - even if only a moral one (obviously it would be entirely impractical - and perhaps very soon not necessary given China’s current economic rise). At the moment it is the West coming to China with a begging bowl. It would be cruel to demand reparations from beggars.
With regards to ‘racial accounting’ the ratio of Tibetans to Chinese in Tibet territory has fallen to a very adverse level for the Tibetans.
But were are talking of a ‘racial accounting.’ Tibetans are racially similar to Han Chinese. And Tibetans are about 80 to 905 of Tibet- compared to 1 or 2% indigenous Americans or indigenous Australians.
But really are we not talking about whites against blacks, yellows against whites etc?
If you talk of Tibet (by the way vastly underpopulated - so China is entirely justified in claiming it as her own), you shift the framework of the discussion. Then I might as well go on and on about the way the Spaniards treat the Basques, or the way the original ‘Old Prussians’ were wiped out by the Teutonic knights, or the ethnic cleansing that took place in the Balkans.
But all that does not really interest me. They are intra-family squabbles.
Let’s keep it race v race.
Liu’s comparisons are for historic and demographic reasons absurd. But note how he never tries to argue or explain why non-White immigration would be a good thing or in the interests of White countries. He doesn’t say this because he can’t make such a case. In any event Africans and Asians are trying to get into Europe for an easy and better life at others expense. They would be trying to do this had the Americas or Australia never existed.
But a similar point could be made of the untold millions of Europeans not so long ago (Italians among them), who flooded North and South America over the past few centuries, reducing the indigenous populations to a tiny proportion of their respective lands.
Not really. Most of the “untold millions” came between 1870 and 1920, centuries after the first English, French and Spanish adventurers arrived to claim the lands for Europe.
Equally important, most went to urban areas where they displaced earlier white populations: Italians and Irish displaced English in New England; Jews and Eastern Europeans displaced Dutch and Germans in New York City, and so on. That is — the European emigration wave of 1870-1920 went mostly to countries that were ALREADY white and Christian. No Italians went to China, or Irish to Ethiopia, or Jews to Bangladesh.
The few big exceptions I can think of were all totally reversed: the French Algerians and Sicilian Tunisians, communities of hundreds of thousands, were annihilated; the English in Rhodesia are now nearly so.
“Nothing to do with me. Those Muslims probably look a good deal more like you than they look like me.”
The Native Americans and Maori have nothing to do with you, either.
“analogous to the way the Europeans cut down Zulu tribesmen many centuries later.”
The difference is that we brought technology and civilization to Africa, while the Mongols only preyed upon the world. But you’re right that we whites were among the least hit by the Mongols.
“We Asiatics patiently await the same - for all whites to leave the Americas, to leave Australasia, and get back to Europe. When that happens, whites can then demand that Europe be for whites only. Before that time you will be nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.”
How comes Han people are in Taiwan?
There is nothing in the soil of America or Europe that says “white” or “asian” or anything else. All nations/peoples/races live where they live because they have displaced other nations/peoples/races. This includes the Han, who at some point in history or prehistory came to be where they are today by displacing someone else. It would be foolish to believe that displacing people today fixes some displacement that happened in the past.
“Apparently the consensus estimate is about 50 million in North America alone.”
Doesn’t make sense, to my knowledge the pre-conquest population of Mexico was about seven and half millions and that of North America only two millions (and in any case the mortality in Mexico was chiefly due to smallpox, which is not something the Europeans intentionally caused).
“But the argument is rather absurd, because Australia is still vastly underpopulated compared with a country like Indonesia - so does that give Indonesians the moral right to invade Australia?”
I wasn’t justifying anyone but only following you in this absurd and pointless “grand racial accounting” which means that we have to weight and measure those crimes, which can be greater or smaller. I was making the case that they’re small.
Every race or nation committed invasion and mass murder, including the Han and China. How do you justify that the Han live in Taiwan and have mostly displaced the native Taiwanese? Last time you were asked about that, you simply attempted to minimize.
In any case I have followed you far enough. Nobody outside of China ad perhaps the American black community takes such games of “grand racial accounting” seriously.
“Agreed. A victim mentality is self-destructive. But I don’t come from a ‘victim’ perspective. I like to keep the reparations thing on the table (as I think China should do), as a bargaining chip - even if only a moral one”
While such an argument may be useful for the PRC propaganda to stir up anti-White hatred among its brainwashed citizens, if you expect that this “bargaining chip” will be of any weight in the West you’re deluded - the reputation of China in the Western public opinion is that of a cruel imperialist, and none of us feels morally indebted to such a tyrant.
“It would be cruel to demand reparations from beggars.”
Oh, please. The West makes deals with China, does not beg. And who would beg to the Chinese? They aren’t known for their selfless sense of compassion. As Dinesh D’souza noted, when the sea devastates Indonesia, it’s only the Western nations (in his words, the Christian ones) that provide humanitarian help.
“If you talk of Tibet (by the way vastly underpopulated - so China is entirely justified in claiming it as her own), you shift the framework of the discussion. Then I might as well go on and on about the way the Spaniards treat the Basques, or the way the original ‘Old Prussians’ were wiped out by the Teutonic knights, or the ethnic cleansing that took place in the Balkans.”
You’re welcome to go on and on about Spaniards and Basques while others bring up Tibet, Taiwan, or the Uyghurs. Whatever the principles that apply to race versus race, I’m sure they also apply to branch versus branch and family versus family.
But all that does not really interest me. They are intra-family squabbles. Let’s keep it race v race.
I’m afraid neither the Tibetans or Uyghurs would agree that their differences with the Chinese are intra-family.
“At the moment it is the West coming to China with a begging bowl. It would be cruel to demand reparations from beggars.”
That’s precisely the best time to do it!
As Dinesh D’souza noted, when the sea devastates Indonesia, it’s only the Western nations (in his words, the Christian ones) that provide humanitarian help.
Wrong.
http://tinyurl.com/yd972ze http://tinyurl.com/ycj3qap
China is also very popular because of the development aid she provides Africa (and also other developing countries).
http://tinyurl.com/b22aa7
Atheist Cuba of course is famed for its medical humanitarianism, and as a proportion of its GDP is far more generous than the US in giving foreign aid. Cuba even offered help to the US in the wake of Hurricane Katrina - which was turned down.
the reputation of China in the Western public opinion is that of a cruel imperialist
Whites control almost half the world’s landmass and it is Chinese who are ‘cruel’ imperialists. The most China ever did o anyone else was smack a few troublesome tribesmen on its periphery. And those troublesome tribesmen still exist in great numbers and form a significant proportion of the population in their respective areas - unlike the 1% of the population which is indigenous to the Americas and Australasia.
There is nothing in the soil of America or Europe that says “white” or “asian” or anything else
Good - so I see you would have no problem with Asian or African immigration to the United States. Which would be a reasonable position for someone of your own ancestry to take. After all the 1924 immigration act was precisely targeted at Italians, and other Southern Europeans (non whites of course were absolutely excluded). Thus I can see that you can identify somewhat with non-whites - at least more than a North Western European could.
Your admission that a real demand of reparations would be entirely impractical reveals your hypocrisy - you don’t want to solve any actual problem, you just advocate a kind of pointless grief-mongering identical to that of the worst American blacks.
Wrong. I only bring it up when people attack China. I use it as a means of self-defense. I will not bring it up unprovoked - nor is it anything that I would ever want to agitate for.
I agree - the most destructive mindset is the victim mindset.
But that does not mean past wrongs cannot be acknowledged and rectified.
After all. just because you demand the imprisonment of someone who mugged you, does not mean you have a victim mentality. A victim mentality is simply when you start to blame all of life’s problems on being mugged just that once.
“The Turks and the Mongols have retreated home”,,, Liu.
Not because they wanted to. I’m sure the Mongols would have loved to have kept their huge empire of plunder and the Turks would like to exploit and retard southeastern Europe for another 500 years. It was these very encroachments that helped to spur overseas European exploration and settlement.
John Liu,
