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Howard or Harvard?

More news stories on Race and Universities

Eric Easter, EbonyJet, August 12, 2009

In this “Age of Obama,” when the world is seemingly wide open to the next generation and the troubling dynamics of race are easing (if not changing), a number of people who attended Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) in more difficult times are asking themselves an interesting question: “If I had to go to college today, would I have made the same choice?”

And after seeing Ivy League graduates dominate the worlds of finance and politics for the last two decades, some are concluding that while the HBCU experience was rich and powerful, they themselves might have been more rich and powerful had they attended those same Ivy League universities.

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There was a time when the Howard versus Harvard, HBCU versus Ivy League question was a discussion mostly about social ambition and prestige. As Lawrence Otis Graham described in his book on the Black upper class, Our Kind of People, high-falutin’ Black social networks once made attendance at one of the top-rated HBCUs or Ivy League universities the dividing line between acceptance and ostracism.

Beyond the superficiality of social order, there is the very real issue of perception. Is there any doubt that at least some of the broad cross-cultural acceptance afforded presidential candidate Barack Obama was a result of his Harvard and Columbia bona fides? Would the monied liberal set have made the same assumptions about his intellect if he had attended, say, the University of Phoenix or had an online law degree?

But at root, the argument is only partly about education. Some see the most powerful asset of either educational choice being the post-graduate networks that can assist you in the life you live after those four short years. Again, a look at the Obama administration is telling. It is a veritable boys and girls club of Ivy League graduates—Columbia, Yale, Harvard and Brown—with a network built of relationships, assumed excellence and common experience.

HBCUs have their own powerful career clubs. What Yale and Harvard are to law, Howard and Meharry Medical College are to medicine. If you’re in business, Florida A&M and Morehouse pedigrees ease the path. Entering media or the music business, again, Howard grads are ever-present. If you’re a woman in any major field of endeavor, fellow Spelman grads are an unparalleled global network. That only scratches the surface.

As for education (oh, that), the best HBCUs rival the best majority schools, and often attract skilled educators who bring with them missions to educate people of color along with formidable skills in their fields. Still, one argument against HBCUs lingers, especially in this more open racial society: the impression that a monochromatic experience is limiting within the context of a new global culture. More crudely put, the perception that HBCU graduates are so deeply ensconced in Black culture that they will be ill-equipped to effectively navigate a White-run world.

Many graduates of HBCUs believe the opposite to be true. They have found that being a part of an African-American intellectual elite and competing based on your abilities alone is, in fact, both liberating and empowering and creates a confidence that makes it actually easier to move around in the majority world.

By contrast, some Black students at Ivy League colleges have discovered isolation and the perception that their academic opportunities are unearned, leaving them even more insecure about race. {snip}

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Original article

(Posted on August 13, 2009)

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Comments

1 — Question Diversity wrote at 6:15 PM on August 13:

That’s just not true of the Obama Administration; Every admin has been dominated by mostly Ivy League handlers. All but one Supreme Court justices are Ivy League law grads. And from what I’ve seen, the Ivy League is just shine and polish, the education really isn’t any better than at State U.

2 — ice wrote at 10:15 PM on August 13:

They author writes as if blacks are not represented in better positions due to situations other than their inability to achieve and their low group intellect.

It’s really pretty humorous to me. It’s like the con man who mouths his spiel so much he becomes a victim of his own duplicity, and believes what he was trying to fool everyone about.

3 — Question Diversity wrote at 10:26 PM on August 13:

Smeagol:

WHO’s ratings are flawed, because they include homicide victims (which the United States has a lot of, thanks to our wonderful blacks and Hispanics), and military casualties (we have a global empire unfortunately, Sweden doesn’t). But even if that weren’t the case, insouciant attitudes among blacks and Hispanics about their personal well being would still drag down our average.


4 — Anonymous wrote at 6:19 AM on August 14:

There is no need for segregated colleges. Mainstream colleges welcome all with open arms, ignoring ability and test scores, so as to fulfill their racial quotas. Tuition is waived (but not for Whites). Promotion and graduation are race-normed so as not to injure the delicate egos of unqualified individuals of preferred races.

5 — Jim wrote at 8:46 AM on August 14:

A few years ago my son was a high school senior and highly recruited by “selective” colleges. We are residents of the deep South and but managed to visit over 30 campuses including Ivy League schools such Harvard, Brown, and Cornell. We also visited Amherst, Duke, Chapel Hill (UNC) and others. My son informally rated these schools and guess what? The Ivies ranked at the bottom, in fact Harvard was dead last. Our campus visit there was a terrible experience.

To make a long story short, my son decided to go The University of Alabama where he graduated Summa Cum Laude and made Phi Beta Kappa. During his undergraduate and master’s level years he was able to travel internationally to Europe and Asia, had several scholarly papers published, and taught incoming honors freshmen. He will soon complete his doctorate.

There are three great things about him going to a state university. First of all he got a great education, second he was a student leader, and last but not least he owes NOTHING, NIL, NADA for his education.

To give you some perspective, one of our friends is an acclaimed academic who is a scholar of Old and Middle English, in fact he is one of the editors of the colossal Middle English Dictionary Project, he told us that the main difference between Ivy League schools and their state university counterparts is ARROGANCE.

6 — AlmostMusicPhD wrote at 9:31 AM on August 14:

Are you kidding? I attended an ‘Ivy League’ School Master’s program for my field (music), after a small liberal arts college for the BA. Other than racking up school loan debt to which I am still shackled, the ‘cachet’ of the degree means precious little, unless you live in the immediate area where that cachet exists. While it is true that grads from a ‘certain school’ may get you into a ‘club’ institution where that school is overrepresented by some elements of the faculty, today it’s all about race, and EEOC quotas.

As a white man over forty my prospects for getting a job with the ‘name’ degree are as good as the unemployed MBA flipping burgers down at McD’s. It’s not my talents or my education that is holding me back - it is my age and race. Which is, of course, racism. But I’m not supposed to say that.

HBCU’s will continue as long as the guilt-merchant mentality can get dollars for doing so. Just as ‘Ivy League’ schools will burden their alumni with debt they will find they cannot pay back, because they cannot get a job.

7 — Madison Grant wrote at 10:37 AM on August 14:

Having an Ivy League degree on your resume may benefit white jobseekers but not necessarily blacks.

I’ve seen numerous reports that state that p.c. corporations are so eager to hire blacks that they don’t care if they graduated from Harvard or an online diploma mill.

8 — Anonymous wrote at 3:51 PM on August 14:

No matter where they are educated, black gravitate to Afrocentric studies, and walk away believing every famous structure in world was built and designed by them. I just finished talking to one whack job, who thinks Blacks discovered America, and were also the real Vikings. They live in a world of delusion.

9 — François wrote at 11:37 PM on August 14:

Howard or Harvard, whatever?

The thing is hat Ivy League schools are prone to even more Affirmative Action quotas for minorities than other universities.

As far as I am concerned, a degree from an Ivy League university, in the hands of a black person, simply proves nothing. Or it just proves that they benefitted from AA. And that’s one of the things that seem to be making America go through a transition, after which Whites will be dominated by color people. Color people, of actually lesser abilities, but who have been creating and Old boy network of their own!

America, please, please wake up!

10 — Anonymous wrote at 2:47 PM on August 15:

8 — Anonymous wrote at 3:51 PM on August 14:
No matter where they are educated, black gravitate to Afrocentric studies, and walk away believing every famous structure in world was built and designed by them. I just finished talking to one whack job, who thinks Blacks discovered America, and were also the real Vikings. They live in a world of delusion.

By the same logic, will those afrocentric blacks conclude that they, themselves, “displaced and killed the native americans”? Will they claim evil white men like Hitler and Stalin as black as well? Or will they only say the good white people were in face “black” when it’s convienent for them?

11 — Jack wrote at 10:12 PM on August 17:

Please, keep the HBC’s alive, and encourage the HB people to go there.

12 — Anonymous wrote at 1:57 AM on August 18:

By the same logic, will those afrocentric blacks conclude that they, themselves, “displaced and killed the native americans”? Will they claim evil white men like Hitler and Stalin as black as well? Or will they only say the good white people were in face “black” when it’s convienent for them?

Yes exactly, I read the rantings of one Afrocentric minded Black, brag about how most African Americans are in fact, the descendants of Egyptian royals, who invented mathmatics and astrology, when Europeans were in caves Also said he, blacks invented almost everything that whites later took credit for. Whites were evil and the creators of slavery. When reminded that the great ancient royal Egyptians, who he insisted were his ancestors, were more likely the original slave owners, nothing but silence on his end.
Nothing but double-speak, and hypocrisy on their part.


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