Bill Schiller, Toronto Star, August 1, 2009
The scene stunned the local, law-abiding Chinese: They’d never seen anything like it.
At a busy intersection in the heart of this southern city recently, angry Africans carried a bleeding black man, held aloft, across eight lanes of heavy traffic to deposit him smack at a police station’s door.
Almost immediately hundreds of other Africans converged on the station—shouting for the police to come out and take responsibility.
The wounded man’s name was Emmanuel Okoro of Nigeria.
Trapped in a police raid on illegal immigrants that afternoon, Okoro chose to leap from the second floor of a shopping mall rather than be arrested.
He landed on his head.
Now, as he lay unconscious on the station’s doorstep, angry protestors fanned out into the street—blocking traffic, ripping up plants, waving tree limbs and denouncing the police.
It took six hours to restore order. No serious injuries were reported.
But it left many asking the same question: Is this the end of China’s African dream?
For a decade now, thousands of African traders have descended upon Guangzhou—the hub of a region called “the workshop of the world”—to buy goods cheaply and re-sell them back home for a profit.
Today more than 20,000 Africans reside in this 10 square kilometre stretch that local Chinese cab drivers call “Chocolate City.”
As many cities around the world have “Chinatowns,” so Africans have come to think of this area as a kind of burgeoning “Africatown.” The sounds of Afrobeat music permeate the air, business gets done in English or Igbo (a Nigerian language) and colourful west African dress abounds.
But the Chinese are not an immigrant nation. Fully 92 per cent belong to one ethnic group alone: the Han. They dominate political and cultural life and remain relatively cool to foreign ways.
Regardless—29-year-old Nigerian Kizito Ezeribe sees himself as a nascent stakeholder.
“For me, coming here was my African dream,” he says, seated inside his shop in the Tanqi Garment centre, busily wrapping bundles of blue jeans to ship back home.
His business card is emblazoned with his motto: “In God I Trust.”
“My brother came here first to seize the opportunity. So I came, too. Everything is so much cheaper here,” he said one recent afternoon.
He and other African buyers tour local factories regularly, he says, looking to buy “seconds” with minor imperfections.
A pair of blue jeans can be had for as little as 15 Chinese yuan, the equivalent of $2.45, he says. These he can sell right here at his stall for 28 yuan, or about $4.60.
But back home they can fetch as much as 45 yuan or $7.35, maybe even more.
Ojukwu Emma, president of the Association of the Nigerian Community in China, who has lived and worked here for more than 10 years, says China is a huge magnet for African traders, and it pulls in more every day.
“China rules the world,” he says. “Much of what African consumers want is made here. It’s good quality and you can get it at a good price—clothing, electronics, auto parts—anything.
“For us, it used to be all about the United Kingdom, Europe or the U.S.A.,” he explains. “Today it’s all about China.”
But Emma also worries about the impact of the unprecedented July 15 riot, he says. He already senses a backlash.
He doesn’t blame the Chinese for that. He says his people—Nigerians—need to take responsibility: they need to understand and respect Chinese law.
“China is a communist country,” he says. “They’re not like us, a democratic country. They have their own laws and regulations that we have to respect.
“You can’t blame the Chinese law for people carrying fake passports,” he stresses. “We have big problems … and it’s making (Chinese) people change their minds.
“At first, they welcomed us.”
He worries that Nigerians, in particular, have worn out their welcome.
“We have to rebuild our image,” he says.
“You know, people at this end of the neighbourhood,” he says, referring to the eastern part of the African sector, “they’re people from Mali and Guinea and Congo—they’re not facing the problems we’re facing.
“In Tanqi (where the disturbance took place), it’s all Nigerian.
“It’s time we put our own house in order,” says Emma. “Shutting down traffic was wrong. I don’t support that kind of activity.”
But not everyone agrees.
Ishmail, a trader from Nigeria’s economic capital of Lagos who owns two shops in that city, says the situation on the ground in Guangzhou is more complicated.
“African people are suffering here,” he says. “You can’t help but overstay your visa.”
He says African traders can’t get business done in 30 days’ time and sustain the constant costs of international flights back and forth.
“Plus the pressure and the tension associated with these raids is insufferable,” he adds. “People are being detained for three, four, six months at a time before they can pay their 5,000 yuan fines (about $800). Then if they’re released they face the cost of a $2,000 (U.S.) air ticket home. No one can afford that.”
But isn’t China just doing what any country would to ensure visitors’ visas are in compliance with the law, he’s asked?
“In Nigeria we are free,” Ishmail implores. “We have two Chinatowns in Lagos. The government set aside land for them. No one in Nigeria asks Chinese people to show their visas. Here they can stop you on the street for no reason. And there are more Chinese in Africa than there are Africans in China,” he says. “Plus, they are welcomed in Nigeria.”
But some Chinese businesses welcome Africans and their business, too.
Deng Huarong, who runs an electronics shop in Tongxin Rd., says he does constant business with African traders and enjoys the interaction.
“The poorer ones bargain very hard,” he says. “And if anything goes wrong with their order—a day’s delay for example—they can be very short-tempered. But they’re direct, straightforward and friendly.
“If I had to choose whether to do business with a Middle Eastern businessman or one from Africa—I’d choose the African,” he says bluntly. “The Middle Eastern people are just too shrewd.”
But there are signs that official pressure on the Africans is continuing to mount.
Chinese police have vowed publicly to intensify their campaign to flush illegal Africans out of Guangzhou.
And last Sunday police vans with flashing lights were even parked outside of the Star Hotel in central Guangzhou, where a weekly Christian service for foreigners attracts African worshippers.
As the service ended and congregants poured out into the street, Malcom, an African engineering student, took offence at the police presence.
“Why are these people harassing us?” he said. “They’ve never come here before. Why are they coming now?”
An older African man holding the hand of a young African child was about to exit the hotel, but spied the police and quickly turned back into the hotel lobby.
Barry Sautman, a professor at Hong Kong’s University of Science and Technology, who has done research on the African community in Guangzhou, says the recent clampdown appears more intense—and might be the result of data suggesting greater numbers of visas are not up to date.
But whatever the reason, the clampdown is raising tensions.
“So far it has only resulted in deteriorating relationships between the African community and the authorities,” said Sautman.
Ojukwu Emma of the Nigerian Community in China says he and the Nigerian embassy are working on an agreement with local authorities to provide exit visas for Nigerians whose visas have expired and who wish to return home.
If formalized, it would allow Nigerians to leave China within 10 days, without threat of detention.
Original article
(Posted on August 10, 2009)
Comments
Nigerian Kizito Ezeribe and other African buyers “tour local factories regularly … looking to buy ‘seconds’ with minor imperfections.”
That’s very enterprising, I’m sure. But rather than rag-picking in a foreign land, why don’t people such as Kizito Ezeribe return to Africa and open factories that will generate wealth for themselves and others?
A side benefit: fewer illegal aliens like Emmanuel Okoro landing on their heads after jumping from the roofs of shopping malls, fewer associations representing the “Nigerian community” outside of Nigeria, and fewer “angry Africans” taking to the streets in non-African nations.
his story neglects what I heard on a flight home from the orient in May, The Chinese woman who sat next to me asked to switch sides so she would not be pushed and repeatedly leaned on by the Black man next to her assigned seat. She said he was afraid of him and he tried to push me out of the way because he said he should sit next to her.
I have known her father (the Chinese woman’s father) more than 30 years but this was her first trip on an airplane outside of China. She was “hit on” by a group of 4 Black late teenage or early twenties in the Tokyo airport. After 2 grabbed her “to talk to her” in the line for one of the luggage screening she screamed and the Japanese airport police intervened. I do not know if they were planing to go on the next flight or not but her opinion of Blacks is now very low.
She returned to China after buying the US machinery she came to buy and says she will not come back without a body guard.
It is very sad that this is her impression of the USA.
Wait until a African man is seen with a Chinese girl and then all hell is going to break loose. The Chinese are not as stupid as Whites when it comes to race. Honestly, I did not even know that China let Africans in. Do they really need the labor? I mean, they treat their own people like slaves. Maybe poster “John Liu” can offer some insight.
What? The Chinese are upset about blocked traffic and torn tree limbs? They ain’t seen NOTHING yet. When young Chinese women turn up raped and murdered, graffiti and broken/shuttered up windows become common, muggings increase and drugs become rampant - then they’ll begin to fathom the true ramifications of large numbers of Africans in their midst.
“For us, it used to be all about the United Kingdom, Europe or the U.S.A.,” he explains. “Today it’s all about China.”
Yeah, it used to be about the UK and USA before the multicults gained control of the West.
So apparently there are 20,000 Nigerian ‘import/export’ agents residing in Guangzhou, China.
No doubt Great Britain’s trade with China exceeds Nigeria’s by orders of magnitude, but I very much doubt if 20,000 British ‘import/export’ agents live in China.
Methinks it’s yet another way of sneaking in through the back-door, one which the Chinese have wised-up to.
Also, notice, true-to-form, that a legitimate Chinese request to deal with a flagrant visa violator has somehow been turned into an anti-chinese riot with the Chinese being painted as ‘oppressors’ merely for enforcing their own laws in their own country.
The leopard doesn’t change its spots.
The Africans are pushing their luck, seeing if the Chinese will blink.
If over-staying their visa goes unpunished, they will go further and further, eventually claiming their ‘squatters rights’ to live like Africans, with all the attendant booming music, ghetto culture, and in-your-face behavior.
The illegals should be arrested and disappeared. That would scare others from breaking the law. Just make them vanish - China can do it.
The africans better watch their step. The Chinese are not known for their patience with idiotic behavior. Once you’ve come to their attention, you have a fair chance of ending up in the Gulag out in he Gobi Desert for a few years. That usually squares the recalcitrant person away.
Tom Iron…
The Television News shows would have us believe that China is the new friends of Africa and will succeed where the Western Nations found only disappointment and financial ruin. I say China should waste all the money they so cleverly earned from the US in the bottomless pit that is called Subsaharan Africa.
“You can’t blame the Chinese law for people carrying fake passports,”
You can certainly blame the government for enforcing the law in the West! Strangely enough the only reason you can is because of ‘communists’.
We’ll see how this pans out when they start raping Chinese girls.
“But it left many asking the same question: Is this the end of China’s African dream?”
It might be the beginning of China’s African nightmare.
“For us, it used to be all about the United Kingdom, Europe or the U.S.A.,” he explains. “Today it’s all about China.”
That’s fine by me. Better that the african tidal wave hits China rather than Europe or North America. This is going to be VERY interesting as it develops. Furthermore, let’s hope China’s emergence draws ALL of the third world migrants to China’s shores and lands.
Blacks in China must be extremely careful. Police will kill them. Chinese people do not like blacks. Chinese people who are policemen really do not like blacks.
We Chinese learn very quickly. Blacks have one chance.
The second time, black man dies.
Blacks don’t have to be there. They are free to leave yet they make the conscious decision to stay.
Regardless of how bad blacks claim it is to be around non-blacks, blacks would rather be with non-blacks than to be with their own.
That tells you all you need to know about blacks.
The accompanying video looks like a typical Juneteenth festival. Africans bring Africa with them everywhere they go. I actually feel sorry for these people. I mean, every culture and country on Earth looks down on them, and they know it. It’s just fascinating, in a way. They’ll always be at the bottom. I cannot believe for even a millisecond that the Caucasian and Mongolian races descended from the African, as some claim. We may all, including Blacks, possibly have descended from a common race, but we did not descend from black Africans.
Could the immigration phenomenon result in every country having at least some diversity friction in the 21st Century? I believe Asians have considerably more backbone than our leaders when it comes to standing up for their interests and preserving their homogeneity. But they have the disadvantage of never having experienced the effects of mass immigration firsthand. So they’ll always have some starry-eyed dreamers who’ll welcome outsiders, for whatever reason, not knowing what they’re getting themselves into.
Blacks seem to make trouble everywhere they go.
“If I had to choose whether to do business with a Middle Eastern businessman or one from Africa—I’d choose the African,” he says bluntly. “The Middle Eastern people are just too shrewd.”
LOL!
Another verification of the low average intellect of blacks.
For all the trouble they cause and the small amount of money they contribute to the Chinese economy, China realizes, I’m sure, that these trouble-makers need to go home and stay there.
If I could admire China for anything, it is their no nonsense attitude they employ in dealing with blacks. If they did not, China would be suffering HUGE crime rates the same as other nations who have white leaders who are far less courageous than the Chinese.
“Plus the pressure and the tension associated with these raids is insufferable,” he adds. “People are being detained for three, four, six months at a time before they can pay their 5,000 yuan fines (about $800). Then if they’re released they face the cost of a $2,000 (U.S.) air ticket home. No one can afford that.”
Then stay out of China.
“In Nigeria we are free,” Ishmail implores. “We have two Chinatowns in Lagos. The government set aside land for them. No one in Nigeria asks Chinese people to show their visas. Here they can stop you on the street for no reason. And there are more Chinese in Africa than there are Africans in China,” he says. “Plus, they are welcomed in Nigeria.”
Because the Chinese are bringing money and a degree of civility when they move into Nigeria. Africans in China, just like America, Europe, Africa etc. Riot for whatever Asinine reason.
One less illegal immigrant.
So the Chinese have imported 20,000 Africans as a consequence of their opening up trade with Africa. Soon that will be 20,000,000. And then the Chinese will learn to curse globalization as much as we do here.
The fact is that the Chineese rally do not like anyone but Chineese.
We should not allow them visas to come to our nation
Who would of thought that a bunch of blacks would become an angry violent just because they were punised for breaking the law.
I think that unless the term is specifically applied to Hershey, PA, “Chocolate City” is worldwide shorthand for a violent, corrupt, ghetto. This sounds like a great opportunity, though, and I would love to see China-Chocolate city expand by about 30 million American blacks.
Well, we don’t get this sort of info from the Rothschild News here in the U.S. Sooner or later, they are going to get around to trying force mixing upon the more civil and intelligent Asians. Hey, China— RESIST!!!
I have a friend who has been doing business in China for 15 years with no trouble. He has told me that the Chinese do not like doing business with the blacks and the Jews {“Middle Easterners”.) The Chinese system is communist in name only. Actually, the Chinese economy is more national socialist than communist. The Chinese have become strongly nationalistic and often speak candidly about building the “Greater China,” meaning that the country will expand its national interests into Africa and will soon challenge India for economic dominance in the Asia. The Chinese have big plans for Africa and those plans don’t include Africans…
23 — White and Proud:
“The fact is that the Chineese rally do not like anyone but Chineese.”
White and Proud, I know for sure that the Chinese people in general like America and Americans (white people). You can’t blame them for having a negative attitude towards the blacks.
We should team up with the Chinese and dominate the world together.
WHITE-ASIAN POWER!!!
And there are more Chinese in Africa than there are Africans in China,”
China still mostly Chinese, rather than African? How racist can you get!!!!
Good for the Chinese! They don’t have to put up with this nonsense, and they’re not going to.
I’m surprised at the restraint exercised by the Chinese police during this six hour incident. I would have figured an hour at the most and dozens of full paddy wagons.
Also the date of July 15 is suspiciously close to Prof. Henry Louis Gates’ one week visit to China. You don’t suppose that he spent some time doing some “community organizing” in Guangzhou.
Why does China allow immigration from Africa? It is already a crowded country with high Chinese unemployment in the countryside. Why doesn’t China learn from their other restive minorities the Uiguers that increased diversity ultimately means conflict?
What about the thousands of Chinese workers in Africa? Chinese workers in Africa are technicians and skilled workers who are there on a temporary basis by request from the local African governments. Few Chinese wish to stay in Africa permanently.
“Yeah, it used to be about the UK and USA before the multicults gained control of the West.”
The WHOLE West.
I am an American visiting in Sweden. I had wanted to buy some knitting needles and other handcraft equipment (which are getting hard or impossible to find in the USA, which are not imported — we don’t make ‘em anymore). Here, I thought I would find the best of the best.
No such luck! Made in India. Made in China. More junk.
Notice, true-to-form, that a legitimate Chinese request to deal with a flagrant visa violator has somehow been turned into an anti-chinese riot with the Chinese being painted as ‘oppressors’ merely for enforcing THEIR OWN laws in THEIR OWN country.
—K. Digby
The Africans are pushing their luck, seeing if the Chinese will blink. If over-staying their visa goes unpunished, they will go further and further, eventually claiming their ‘squatters rights’ to live like Africans, with all the attendant booming music, ghetto culture, and in-your-face behavior.
—Anonymous
———————————————————
I have to wonder if this discontent could be orchestrated to take advantage of the other ethnic rioting that has been occurring in Western China. It could be made to pile the pressure on China to make it look like an oppressor of all racial minorities. And naturally, the Chinese (being especially sensitive right now to African relations) would not want to look like racist oppressors. In other words, the Africans are kicking the Chinese when the Chinese have their hands full. How convenient!
I’m with China on this one. Why should there be ANY African colony in China at all? And after a century has passed, how many millions will those settlers have become?
The Chinese kicked the British out of Hong Kong and the French out of Shanghai in order to have this? I’m amazed.
ANYONE who doesn’t know how most Asians feel about blacks, doesn’t know many Asians..
Many Africans, and blacks in general, believe that world owes them a living. I had an online debate with an arrogant Nigerian living in Ireland, who was boasting that Dublin is now a Nigerian city.
He continued to brag that all of Europe would one day be majority non-white, and that it was pay-back for whites colonizing other countries, and that Europeans owed them a living, but were too cheap, and only provide modest housing for asylum seekers.
When I reminded him of the brutal murders of white farmers in Zimbabwe, he instantly defended Mugabe, saying Africa belongs to blacks, and get this, he said Europe was theirs too, because Black Moors built Rome and Greece, and civilized Europeans. He was as mind-numbingly ignorant, as he was arrogant, but a perfect example of the black mind-set.
Now they are even in Asian countries, and are calling the Japanese stingy, and disrespecting Chinese police, for doing their jobs, and trying to apprehend criminals. Their nerve and greed are limitless.
Somehow, East Asians have struck me as far more immune to multiculti guilt than white people.
The fact that there are about a million Chinese in Africa (almost all men, I might add) should tell us something — the Chinese aren’t about to let Guangzhou turn into a Nigerian colony.
And there have already been riots against Africans dating Chinese women — back in 1989, if I recall. Chinese women will sometimes date white men, but all other races are considered beneath them.
There are probably tens of thousands of white people, if not more, living in China already (the Chinese need English teachers and translators, for one thing), and we never hear about them causing this kind of trouble.
What I hate about black people is that wherever they go, they feel they are entitled to more rights than even the locals. They hardly have any regard for for the locals of the land.
Africans are not a problem in China alone. They are a problem in India
http://www.indiatime.com/2007/05/22/nigerian-cocaine-peddlers-disguising-as-students-in-india/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1636916.cms
and Vietnam
http://english.vovnews.vn/Home/Police-discover-drug-cases-related-to-African-criminals/20096/105470.vov
among others.
And to the person (posted on 1:07 AM on August 11) who wrote about China challenging India for power in Asia. That is laughable as the Indian Navy chief has himself said that India is not and probably is never going to be a match for China in the future.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/dont-have-capability-or-intention-to-match-china-force-for-force-navy-chief/500573/
“That’s very enterprising, I’m sure. But rather than rag-picking in a foreign land, why don’t people such as Kizito Ezeribe return to Africa and open factories that will generate wealth for themselves and others? “
Because Africans, like Americans, Europeans and others would never put up with the conditions that enable Chinese factory owners to produce goods so cheaply.
“She was “hit on” by a group of 4 Black late teenage or early twenties in the Tokyo airport. After 2 grabbed her “to talk to her” in the line for one of the luggage screening she screamed and the Japanese airport police intervened. “
Probably black American military or their dependents. One of the reasons why the black American military is hated in so many countries where we maintain military bases.
There were major riots back in the communist days in China against the black African students brought by the communist government to learn techniques of revolution.
The Africans attacked Chinese women and the Chinese men retaliated.
Flaxen-haired strumpet (as usual) caught a very perceptive point in seeing a possible connection between these disturbances (and the others) with Prof. Gates’ visit to China. It’s just a thought, but intriguing. I wonder just what he was ostensibly there for, anyway.
Don’t blink-when the world press is not on the Chinese(and the Africans know it)-the Chinese authorities will “terminate” all of chocolate-town-root and branch.As it is most/all of these black peddlers/merchants are overstaying their visas and hope that they can intimidate/coerce the Chinese into letting them stay and have their own way-they don’t realize just how ruthless the Chinese can be.
Howard wrote at 6:05 PM on August 10:
“Wait until a African man is seen with a Chinese girl and then all hell is going to break loose.”
All hell did break loose, back in 1988.
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/04/nanjing_antiafr.php
To be sure, though, that was just a dress rehearsal for what’s coming.
Since the late Deng Xiaoping set China on the road to market reform, China hasn’t really experienced a sizable economic downturn (the “Great Recession” notwithstanding). No one expects that to continue indefinitely.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334922317543180.html
As the article pointed out, China is 92% ethnic Han Chinese with the remaining 8% divided up amongst approx. 50 ethnic minorities, many of whom live at best a tenuous existence next to their Han masters.
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/07/06/China_says_at_least_140_dead_in_rioting_by_Uighurs/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124699285048707143.html
In a country of 1.3 billion people, the total number of black Africans there amounts to a flyspeck. When China’s market bubble finally bursts and tens of millions of Chinese thrown out of work (with little in the way of a safety net for them), I predict the Chinese are going to take a cold, hard look at their unwelcome “neighbors” from Africa.
Broken record dept.:
“In Nigeria we are free,” Ishmail implores.”
LOL.
Real estate’s cheap there too, apparently. Maybe the various diasporans should take advantage & achieve things in that wonderful “free” land from whence they came.
Reply to Anon at #36.
Your post was bang on. This is so typical of the black mentality. Utterly shameless, parasitical and a sense of complete entitlement. Arrogance exceeded only by their stupidity and ignorance. Rationalization and self-deception.
If China was smart it would crack down very, very, very hard on the Africans RIGHT NOW. Blacks are testing the waters. If the Chinese give them an inch….
“live at best a tenuous existence next to their Han masters.”
In the case of Uighurs it was actually a low IQ group that attacked and murdered the Han because they were angry about economic inequality. Basically a familiar story to us.
I have a hard time keeping up with all these annoying name changes. I really don’t even bother. I still say Peking, Ceylon, and Bombay because those are the names by which we know those places historically and they have long associations with us.
After all, we say Moscow, not Moskva. The Russians don’t mind. And we say Warsaw, not Warsava; and Rome, not Roma; Naples and Venice, not Napoli and Venezia. Vienna, not Wein. Etc. What’s wrong with the English names? Certainly not when you’re speaking English! It would seem appropriate. Italians say Londra and Parigi and I don’t think the English or French object. The French say Philadelphie, Californie, and “la Nouvelle Orleans” in French; and it’s Sankt Francisko in German, and don’t object either. That’s fine with me. So when/if I ever learn Hindustani I’ll say Mumbai. Until then, it’s Bombay for me. Sorry, nationalists. You can spell it any way you please in your own language,that’s your bueiness; I know how to say it in mine.
So I had to look up Guangzhou, a mystery to me. I thought it was some newly built city, created in the last few years. Not so! For the information of those who didn’t know, it is the very old city that we have traditionally known in English as Canton. It has always been the major foreign trade center of China.
It’s a futile hope, I know, but I wish these trendy journalists, trying to show off how up-to-date they are, would write all names in standard English, as long as they’re writing their articles in English. It would be so much easier for us English speakers who don’t know Gujarati, Tamil, or Mandarin.
Well, as Reds, the Chinese could handle the situation as harshly as they want without much mention in the ultra-liberal press.
After all both Communists and Africans are held in high esteem by liberals and to have them both fighting would be unthinkable.
I still say Peking, Ceylon, and Bombay because those are the names by which we know those places historically and they have long associations with us.
If a country changes its name then it should be called by that name. Ceylon exists no more it is Sri Lanka. That is not pandering to ethnic enunciation - it is a genuine name change.
As for Peking or Beijing - the name never changed - the only thing was the spelling. Pinyin is used for all Chinese place names - so Peking was not changed to Beijing - the spelling was changed - and everyone else caught onto that.
‘China’ sounds nothing like Zhongguo - but Chinese don’t object to ‘China’ or being called ‘Chinese’ which sounds nothing like Zhongguoren. But if they did it would be polite to change.
Until then, it’s Bombay for me. Sorry, nationalists. You can spell it any way you please in your own language,that’s your bueiness; I know how to say it in mine.
It seems like it is you who wishes to bring political overtones to this. Of course pronunciations of placenames will hardly ever align with native pronunciations, nor would they be expected to - but if a country, or city, wishes to change its name -then that should be respected.
So Moscow is fine for Moskva, but I’m sure you’d get weird looks from some Russians if you insisted on Leningrad for St Petersburg, or Stalingrad for Volgagrad.
Of course there are no hard and fast rules here - common sense, tradition, and simple politeness are enough.
“As for Peking or Beijing - the name never changed - the only thing was the spelling. Pinyin is used for all Chinese place names - so Peking was not changed to Beijing - the spelling was changed - and everyone else caught onto that.”
-Mr.Liu
Well then, the name never changed, so I concede the right of the Chinese to spell it or write it however they wish in Chinese. That’s certainly their own business. But who decided to alter the spelling in English? I would think that would be our business. Changing a name entirely is not the same as tampering with the spelling within a language. Admittedly, this does get problematical. Unfortunately, we lack a language academy such as the French have. No outsiders would presume to tell the French how to spell a word in French. They alone will determine that. But if Leopoldville is formally changed to Kinshasa (or Constantinople to Istanbul), that’s quite another thing.
“Of course pronunciations of place names will hardly ever align with native pronunciations, nor would they be expected to - but if a country, or city, wishes to change its name - then that should be respected. So Moscow is fine for Moskva, but I’m sure you’d get weird looks from some Russians if you insisted on Leningrad for St Petersburg, or Stalingrad for Volgagrad.”
True. I see your valid point here, Mr. Liu. And I do agree that a country/city has every right to change its name. I would certainly respect that. We don’t still call New York, New Amsterdam (though nobody would mind). But, for me, the island, the geographical place, remains Ceylon, although the political unit (country) now existing there may be called Sri Lanka. (I note that we still get “Ceylon tea” from Sri Lanka; that hasn’t changed.) Canada, for instance, could change its name to whatever one can imagine but it would still be located in North America. So there’s a distinction between political names and geographical ones.
This certainly isn’t a major issue, so I don’t want to overdo it. And, as you say, common sense and politeness will usually get you though such matters. But it does get disconcerting at times when old names with long historical associations (eg. Bombay) are discarded and replaced with new and confusing ones.
If the article had simply referred to Canton, I would not have had to go to the trouble of looking up Guangzhou (which I almost didn’t bother to do). I am sure many other Americans also have no idea where Guangzhou is, or the old and historical connotations that it has to us as the great city of “Canton”, which is one of China’s 3 largest cities, and was during the 1700s one of the 3 major ports of the world and the focus of the China Trade. As Guangzhou, all of that would be lost to them. The journalist, basically, is at fault. He should at least have made the point of connecting the two names instead of leaving us floudering.
Someone commented that Asians don’t like blacks ?
PLEASE tell us all, tell us about the long list of countries who DO like blacks ?! In Africa, they are treated like dogs - worse than dogs. In the US, they treat each other that way. Then expect whites to bow to the same treatment, which we are slowly doing thanks to the left wing nuts in charge right now.
I, for one, would/ WILL- GLADLY welcome Chinese rule in the USA. they already own this country on paper, it will not be long before they collect.
They can start by ‘whitening’ up the USA and getting rid of the trash, enforcing law, not rewriting it, for the convenience of the loud-mouth minority, like hussein (insane)obama is doing- and all of his cronies. The US will be forever scarred from his administration. Insane sodomyer (I know I mispelled it) is only the tip of the iceberg.
“He worries that Nigerians, in particular, have worn out their welcome.”
Seems to be a worldwide trend.
They don’t hate blacks but they have always been aware that different races are different. The average Chinese person, if you ask them, will say they feel sorry for blacks because their society on average is lawless and has low IQ which creates misery.
But ask them to open up to immigration from outsiders (as if the Russians in Manchuria isn’t enough) and they will just stare at you.