Katie Nelson, Breitbart, August 18, 2009
A New Jersey blogger facing charges in two states for allegedly making threats against lawmakers and judges was trained by the FBI on how to be deliberately provocative, his attorney said Tuesday.
Hal Turner worked for the FBI from 2002 to 2007 as an “agent provocateur” and was taught by the agency “what he could say that wouldn’t be crossing the line,” defense attorney Michael Orozco said.
“His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest,” Orozco said.
Prosecutors have acknowledged that Turner was an informant who spied on radical right-wing organizations, but the defense has said Turner was not working for the FBI when he allegedly made threats against Connecticut legislators and wrote that three federal judges in Illinois deserved to die.
{snip}
He wrote in Internet postings the same month that the Illinois federal appeals judges “deserve to be killed” because they issued a ruling that upheld ordinances in Chicago and suburban Oak Park banning handguns. He included their photos and the room numbers of their chambers at the courthouse.
{snip}
Original article
(Posted on August 18, 2009)
Comments
There is a long history of government infiltrators and spies committing violence in the name of “right wing extremist groups.”
Socially conscious ‘activism’ generally isn’t considered a hobby but in this case it seems as if it is.
I hope that Hal Turner spends the rest of his life in a
I hope Amren will keep posting as this trial goes forward.
Bernie: There is a long history of Federal law enforcement CREATING right-wing extremist groups. The reason they do is the same reason why Hal Turner was an A/P, (like some of us suspected all along) — to give the SPLC and ADL enemies so they can raise money.
Even if the FBI is telling the truth that Turner wasn’t working for them when he made the threats against the judges, that dog doesn’t hunt for me, because he only used the tactics they taught him.
a mentally ill man. frightening to think that the FBI relies on unstable informants and agents.
Here you have the government using a pawn to incite violence among “radical right-wing” groups.
What a disgrace. What the government calls “radical right-wing” usually turns out to be just a group or family that wants to be left alone (ruby ridge comes to mind).
Mr. Turner makes good copy on fund raising letters.
I had read his blog on occasion and often wondered how he could escape “the authorities” wrath with his highly provocative writing style. Yes, there is still free speech in America which I highly support, but “agent provocateurs” are among the lowest of the low.
Just desserts for Hal Turner!
“His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest,” Orozco said.”
Turner was an amateurish scam artist, but he WAS entertaining. I clicked onto his site occassionally just to see what he was up to. The one blaring fact about him that made it obvious he was either a nut case or an agent provacateur was his needless extreme rhetoric.
For example, a person who reads him has to ask himself what the man’s purpose is. It was plain that only an idiot would join in anything he advocated, because he was so obviously absurd. His tone and extremist language weren’t necessary to promote whites and white causes. In fact his entire ludicrous inane provocations were counterproductive. And, he could never get more than a few dollars in donations from what I can gather, and he was enraged quite often over that.
I wrote him once and asked him why he didn’t start up an extreme left wing blog, trying to get one of them to sound off as he does, because it is those types who are causing all the violence and chaos today, with their anti-globalist and anti-capitalist agenda. I told him it isn’t the far right that causes problems it is the far left. I added that the reason he can’t get donations is because it was plain to most that he was a provocateur. Nobody else could get away with using that method of criticism but someone trying to provoke others.
He never answered me, but wrote a post immediately afterward which explained that his radical language was protected free speech under the constitution and cited three cases which he claimed protected him.
I wrote him in answer to that and said that the most telling point of his disingenuousness was his practice of such flagrant violent language which was counterproductive to advancing anyone, let alone whites. He never answered that either.
The humorous aspect to this entire man’s sloppy endeavors is the fact that he REALLY was effective at times in protesting black on white crime, even though he made a big show of bringing skinheads at his protest. He DID effectively highlight black on white assaults in a couple of areas that he physically protested, which, if factored into his overall efforts as a provacateur, made him on a par with Inspector Clouseau. That was an unintended consequence and it could be the reason the feds dropped him: He was too effective for the far right and came up with zilch in the way of entrapping people to mirror his blatant violent language.
I believe in the end, after he was dropped by the feds, he redoubled his efforts to try to entrap some poor mentally challenged far right person in order to get back on the payroll, and he went too far in advocating violent crimes. The comments he was finally arrested for were definitely outrageous, but, worst of all, they were so outrageous they were useless, if incitement was the intended purpose. The only people I’ve ever read that get that verbally extreme are the far left, and they don’t do it as blatantly as Turner.
He should have switched over as a leftist provacateur and he would have had some success. I don’t think even the skinheads get as radical as he does. Certainly people interested in strictly advancing white causes want nothing to do with the likes of him.
However, I have to admit I’m going to miss going to his blog for a laugh now and then.
So Hal Turner was a traitor? He set up White people so the FBI could arrest them? Is this why they want those hate crime laws so bad so as to get the WN all arrested for their so-called speech “crimes”? Freedom of Speech has been lost in this country for decades and is now rearing it’s ugly head for all to see. Now the question is, are we going to tolerate it?
I used to read the Hal Turner Show every long now and again and I always knew he was a strange character. There was rumours of him being a fed, but I never paid him much attention anyways. The one thing I would always joke about is how he begged for money and tried to lecture people into supporting the cause with donations….what a joke!
I truly believe Hal believed what he said and was trying to play both sides, probably the FBI for a bit of money.
Agents provocateur are easy to sniff out. All it takes is the desire, plus common sense; you create and live by a code that agents provocateur cannot, by definition, adhere to, and label as agent provocateur anyone who doesn’t adhere to it.
Simple.
Any time you hear someone advocating political violence you should assume they’re an agent provocateur and keep your distance.
Hal Turner correctly predicted the economic collapse of last
The Feds are notorious for leveraging these techniques. I suspect the also set loose trolls on WN websites, trying to drum up violence (to justify the Orwellian police state).
http://www.anu.org
This is a warmed over version of CoIntelPro. Look it up on Wikipedia. This also reminds me of the stunts Canada’s CSIS pulled by building up the country’s largest neo-nazi organization under government agent Grant Bristow. Lest anyone think this conspiracy theory nonsense they should note that Grant Bristow was publicly outed, admitted it and went into hiding.
The basic govt strategy is to use agents to infiltrate and BUILD UP organizations. And then use provocateurs to incite its members to engage in illegal activities. The goal isn’t so much to arrest those on the edge as to RADICALIZE the organizations. By radicalizing the orgs they undermine public support and discredit previously mainstream views. The worst part comes when remaining supporters are frozen because they don’t know whom to trust. In the case of govt agent Bristow, his front organization tried to take over the Reform Party in it’s formative years and then conveniently leaked the story at an inopportune time. In other words, politicians were using a bogus hate group to undermine potential political opponents. Now, does anyone wonder how things in the west have gotten so screwed up?
Any legitimate org would do well to keep a close eye out on two types. The first type is the guy who is just a little too radical. And the second type is the guy who is just a little too perfect . I recommend sending someone to polygraph school because even if YOU are legit there is no guarantee that the govt is.
Instead of doing something about the many criminals, terrorists, and illegal immigrants in this country, the FBI, CIA, and the “American” government would rather spy on white Americans and provoke the mentally unstable into committing crimes, so that they can vilify the law-abiding whites and attempt to take away their right to free speech and bear arms.
Just think, if these criminals had spent less time creating Hal Turners and more time actually doing their jobs, 3000 more Americans might have been alive on September 12, 2001.
I had a friend turn me onto Hal Turner a couple years ago. From the get-go, I knew there was something very off about this man. He was right from time to time, but represented himself in such a manner that would leave a bad taste in just about anyone’s mouth.
Hal’s “connections” are no surprise. You have to think twice about someone that calls for violence against judges and lawyers, and later, against underage kids that harassed him over the phone.
What instantly turned me off from Hal were his incessant complaints of non-funding. You can’t take anyone like that seriously. Are you doing it for money, or are you doing it to further a cause? He’d then go on to insult his listeners that didn’t send him a petty donation.
Folks, I advise you to be very, very apprehensive of anyone that speaks “for us” and openly advocates violence. This should be a red-herring to even the dullest intellect.
All that said, I hope Hal is “visited” by the people he pretended to hate while he’s in the pen.
“His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest….” “…Turner was an informant who spied on radical right-wing organizations…”
How does this description differ from that of the average college student?
1 — Bernie wrote at 5:35 PM on August 18:
“But let the government even think of infiltrating a violent left wind group (Muslim terrorist cells, violent black supremacist sects, far-left terrorists) and we are given lectures about civil liberties and the need to monitor the government.”
I’ll bet the gov’t infiltrates them anyway…the gov’t certainly infiltrated the left in the years of the old Communist Party, and in the Nixon years when the radical New Left was so active.
In NYC in the late 60s there was a guy called “Crazy George,” the most radical guy around, who made friends and joined efforts with a tiny group who had taken to setting off bombs in corporate buildings at night….after the group was arrested, it turned out that “Crazy George” had been working for the FBI the entire time he’d been on the left, encouraging people to get machine guns, and do every kind of crazy thing imaginable.
I don’t think the powers that be want any groups operating independently that are too disruptive.
Hopefully this whole incident will make others think twice before working for the FBI. Hal Turner could very well end up spending the rest of his life in prison. If you work for the feds, as soon as you’re no longer useful, they’ll hang you out to dry.
So the FBI is causing violence against people! The agency that once was worthy of respect is leading people to commit crime, so the discredited agency can arrest them and say “see, you Whites are racist!”
All those donations he kept asking for to stay afloat has me wondering if the SPLC got their “cut”? Wouldn’t it be ironic if those who sent him money went to keep the SPLC afloat? Sounds like their MO, doesn’t it?
Pay attention folks. I think 99% of Amren readers would have the good sense not to take guns to a protest rally of Obama. Let’s see what we know. All of the sudden several UNIDENTIFIED men show up at protest rallies carrying guns.The one toting an AR-15 is black.? (How many Blacks in this country do not support Obama?7 or 8 I think).
How to spot a spy:
http://tinyurl.com/mwg6e9
Provocateurs:
1) Want to establish “leaders” to set them up for a fall in order to stop the movement. 2) Suggest doing foolish, illegal things to get the activists in trouble. 3) Encourage militancy. 4) Want to taunt the authorities. 5) Attempt to make the activist compromise their values. 6) Attempt to instigate violence. Activisim ought to always be non-violent. 7) Attempt to provoke revolt among people who are ill-prepared to deal with the reaction of the authorities to such violence.
Canadian Jewish Congress Organized Nazis
“Neo-conservative author Ezra Levant claims in his latest book, Shakedown, that the Canadian Jewish Congress hired ex-cop John Garrity to work for the Canadian Nazi Party in the 1960’s. In 1965 and 1966, Garrity was put in charge of membership for the group and organized the dozen or so “rag-tag band of losers” into an outfit that garned a lot of press coverage.
That media attention was used by the CJC to build up a precieved public threat that persuaded Parliament to abridge Canada’s freedom of speech, Levant contends.”
The SPLC also had an “informant” working during the Oklahoma City bombing… Are all of the legitimate nuts on the left (e.g. in Berlin, Germany)? Next we’ll hear James von Brunn was on someone’s payroll too…
Hal Turner is to AmRen as Sea Shepherds are to Greenpeace…
Last Celt:
It was worse than that. The leader of the Canadian Nazi Party (now there’s an oxymoron) was left-wing and Jewish. Would not have surprised me if there wasn’t one real Nazi in the Nazi Party.
Also, I think you’re right about Von Brunn. The UK Daily Mail (of all sources) confirmed than an FBI “informant” was swinging between Von Brunn and the FBI, and tried to swing his way through the conservative race groups. The Mail said his name, but I won’t say it here. What I will say is that if you are looking to assign blame for what an 89-year old man did (like 89-year old men have the ability to do anything), look at this particular person.
I am someone who listened to Hal’s show and donated to his show. I was shocked and saddened when I heard his lawyer say that he was workinh with the FBI. I do believe that Hal believes what he was saying on his shows. He is playing both sides though. Hal could really fire people up. He held several rallies in defense of Whites including a rally to bring attention to Channon Christian and Chris Newsome in Knoxville. Hal’s speech was amazing. It’s sad that he was working with the FBI. BUt something in my opinion is fishy about this story.
I wonder what the press would say if someone infiltrated a black organization and tried the same tactics?
Prosecutors have acknowledged that Turner was an informant who spied on radical right-wing organizations, but the defense has said Turner was not working for the FBI when he allegedly made threats against Connecticut legislators and wrote that three federal judges in Illinois deserved to die.(FROM ARTICLE ABOVE)
{snip}
Connecticut was going to start regulating the Catholic Church and their political dealings after the Church told parishioners to not vote for politicians that support abortion. Hal basically said he was going to kick some ass if Conecticut politicians did not stop harassing the Church. Connecticut backed down and stopped the piece of legislation that would have been a big blow to anti-abortionists and the Church. Every Catholic and person that is against abortion should thank Hal Turner.
The best way to counter provocateurs is to never do or say anything that can be construed to be illegal. It’s rare that anybody is harassed by the authorities, unless they scream utter nonsense and make outlandish threats as Turner did.
But the bottom line is that it isn’t necessary to do or write or say anything illegal for any reason.
Why? Because it is just plain stupid and advances nothing. Too, this multicultural disaster is imploding all on its own. It’s just a matter of time.
Discuss the situation, criticize it, and maintain communication with like-minded people, and BE PREPARED, but, rest assured, nothing anybody can do or say would be more effective than what is transpiring naturally all on its own.
Hal Turner was obviously a defective individual. Many people saw this coming a mile away. White Nationalists need to do a better job of policing our own movement. The fact that even people on here admit to reading and giving money to this clown is pitiful.
I think there is a tendency for people whose beliefs violate society’s taboos to be overly indulgent of others who profess the same beliefs.
Anyone who has been around the WN movement for more than a couple of years knows that there are lots of people who have been proven to be scam artists, liars and informers who still manage to have followings.
Hal was obvious from the get go , he was bait .
The main aim of cointelpro efforts is simply “funding”.
Surely, there is a place for properly structured and
By crude by applicable analogy with conditions in the former
31 — Question Diversity wrote at 4:39 PM on August 19:
He was able to walk and pull the trigger. Some over 90s actually take part in athletic events. Just when, I would like to know, is the age where one is no longer able to “do anything,” or not responsible for his own actions? It sounds as if you are attempting to employ the usual excuse that non-whites make for the crimes they commit.
28 — Last Celt wrote at 2:24 PM on August 19:
“Neo-conservative author Ezra Levant claims in his latest book, Shakedown, that the Canadian Jewish Congress hired ex-cop John Garrity to work for the Canadian Nazi Party in the 1960’s. In 1965 and 1966, Garrity was put in charge of membership for the group and organized the dozen or so “rag-tag band of losers” into an outfit that garned a lot of press coverage.
That media attention was used by the CJC to build up a precieved public threat that persuaded Parliament to abridge Canada’s freedom of speech, Levant contends.”
> The problem I see with this is that it implies that the Nazi parties are either so collectively stupid, or so desperate, that they will take on a new member and soon put him in an important office.
I tend to think that it is a bit of both. Here’s why; In the mid-1990s, I was on a particular bit of historic research where I wanted a copy of the film, “The Triumph of the Will.” I received it from a group that sounded as if they were probably a Nazi organization based in Florida. Not long after that, I received a letter postmarked Florida, from an anonymous group who claimed to represent a “militia” and he offered me a postion as my region’s top officer and organizer. Just because I ordered a copy of an old Nazi propaganda film. They had no idea of who I was, or even if I was black and Jewish, like Sammy Davis, Jr. That is stupid and desperate.
36 — ATBOTL wrote at 9:48 PM on August 19:
Wrong Sir. I was one of the people that donated to Hal’s cause. He held pro-White rallies in Kalamazoo, Knoxville and in New York in defense of Whites. Hal’s speech might have been crazy to you, but his show and website were the best in the WN movement by far. He nailed the exact month of the economic collapse and his blog was quoted in newspapers worldwide. He always talked about how whites were being butchered on the streets and he appeared on numerous shows. Including “Geraldo” on Fox, “Dateline” on NBC and he also appeared on CNN. It’s my belief that Hal was playing the FBI for money. And besides, the last 2 years he continued his show without being on the payroll for the FBI so he clearly believed deeply in the Pro-White cause.
I have some of Hal’s shows downloaded and I was listening to one the other day. He was talking about how “our birthright has been stolen from us”. He was passionate and believed in the cause. American Renaisssance is not the only point of view out there. And just because you believe he was a nut does not make it so.
I think many people (myself included) find it entertaining to hear someone say things that are extremely controversial. Howard Stern has made a fortune being controversial and pushing the envelope. Hal Turner’s internet show was also controversial, though in different ways.
I’m sure most of his listeners tuned in for the same reason I did. Not to answer some bogus “call to arms”, but rather to hear the next outrageous thing to come flying out of his mouth. Love him or hate him, agree with him or disagree, the guy was certainly entertaining to listen to.
That said, here’s hoping that his days as an A/P didn’t produce the desired results, and that he now receives the karma he so richly deserves for selling out some of the few remaining whites that actually still care about our race. In my eyes, he’s worse than a white liberal. At least a white liberal doesn’t hide the fact that they’re a sell-out.
Next we will be hearing about the unmasking of the notorious Hollywood Nazi, Bill White (Weiss).
35 Ice: I think you are probably right, and I truly hope so. Things will likely fall apart, and whatever violence may occur will be initiated by the non-Whites, just as they commit so great a disproportion of ordinary street crime. We don’t need to search out trouble, the trouble will come to our doors soon enough. The cards that are showing are mostly against us, but if the USSR couldn’t be held together by the KGB, what chance has the FBI? And, if I understand him correctly, 40 Anon says that within the national security apparatus are elements who understand the situation and are biding their time. That makes sense to me. If there is a large minority among teachers who understand racial issues but lie low to keep their jobs, I can’t imagine that there aren’t a whole lot of cops and spooks and generals who understand these things as well.
46 Schoolteacher:
Cynthia McKinney was threatened by FBI operative Hal Turner.
—Forwarded Message Attachment—
I am in the Bay Area and rocking with the San Francisco Bay View
Hot on the heels of my learning that the Georgia Green Party might have been described by the U.S. Government as a “terrorist
Now, when I reported it to the FBI, how in the world was I to know that he was at that time on the FBI’s payroll? Interesting that charges stem from his comments against Connecticut lawmakers and Illinois judges, but not from the
John Judge, my Congressional staffer, is the one who reported the threat. Here is what John just wrote, along with the article that reports that Turner was on the FBI payroll at the time the threat was made against me, according to Turner’s attorney. See the green highlights below:
John Judge wrote:
Now they say he was trained as an agent provocateur by the FBI
According to the AP Hal Turner has exposed through his attorney that he worked for the FBI from 2002 to 2007 as an “agent provocateur” and “his job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest”
Cynthia McKinney
