BBC News, July 27, 2009
Proponents of Italy’s new anti-immigration laws say they are a much-needed response to a serious problem, but critics say they recall the policies of the fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, reports the BBC World Service’s Madeleine Morris in Milan.
“The life that I’m living in Italy is very poor. I don’t have documents. In Europe, if you don’t have documents, you are nothing—you are an empty vessel.”
Michael—not his real name—is a 19-year-old Sierra Leonean who came to Italy 15 months ago.
He crossed the sea from Libya in a small boat, along with 65 other people. Once they landed in Italy, he claimed asylum.
But Michael’s claim, along with the majority of asylum seekers who land on Italy’s shores, was rejected.
Since then, he has been living illegally in the northern city of Milan, struggling to survive under Italy’s increasingly tough policy on illegal immigrants.
I see that policy in action as we pass an internet cafe near the hostel where he is staying.
Four policemen enter the cafe and single out those of African descent, asking to check their official documents.
“They’re in here three or four times a week looking for people without papers,” Michael says.
Under fire
Italy has come under fire from groups as diverse as the Vatican and the European Commission for its strict new anti-immigration laws, which were passed in early July.
Under the legislation, illegal immigrants are liable to pay a fine of 10,000 euros (£8,700; $14,200) and can now be detained by the authorities for up to six months.
In addition, people who knowingly house undocumented migrants can now face up to three years in prison.
The new law also permits the formation of unarmed citizen patrol groups to help police keep order.
The European Commission is investigating the new laws to see if they comply with existing EU legislation on immigration.
“Italy is absolutely not a racist country. We just want to be sure that the immigrants who arrive on our land want to be here to work, not to make crimes,” says Paolo Grimaldi, an MP for the right-wing Northern League.
Mr Grimaldi, whose party leader, Interior Minister Roberto Maroni, ushered the new law through parliament, firmly believes Italy is facing an emergency.
With nearly 37,000 immigrants arriving on their shores last year, mostly via boats from Libya and Tunisia, many Italians agree.
“There are too many people. You see in the city, on the streets in Milan, two million immigrants, I think,” says one Milanese man, who did not want to give his name.
“I want to help people who are poorer than me, but I want to know where they come from and what they are going to do,” says Martina, a 23-year-old Northern League supporter. “It is better if they come here legally.”
Criminalised
According to Saskia Sassen, an expert on European immigration at Columbia University in New York, Italy’s new laws could be the beginning of “a catastrophic phase” for not only migrants but also Italian citizens.
“This law really alters the landscape by criminalising the violation,” she says.
“In the past you were in violation of the law. That doesn’t mean you were a criminal. This law means if you break the law, now you are considered a criminal. That’s a big deal.”
Mr Grimaldi readily admits that almost no illegal immigrants would be able to pay a 10,000-euro fine. In fact, he says, that is the point.
European Union laws oblige all 25 countries party to the Schengen Agreement, which allows passport-free travel across the area, to allow illegal immigrants to make two “mistakes”, and the new Italian law makes such “mistakes” more likely.
“We want to expel these illegal immigrants to their country of provenance,” Mr Grimaldi says.
“If they have already been arrested for something before, if they don’t pay the fine, we will have recidivism.”
The immigrant will have made two “mistakes”, and “so then we can make the expulsion”.
Italy issues very few visas to people who are already living in the country, and demand for work permits from potential immigrants greatly outstrips supply.
It quickly becomes a Catch-22 situation—illegal immigrants who have no visa are unable to get a job; those without a job are unable to get a visa.
As a result, both illegal and legal migrants have become an increasingly obvious presence on the streets of Italian cities.
At night, groups of men from across Africa, the Arab world and Asia roll out sleeping bags and cardboard boxes in Milan’s numerous historic piazzas.
By day, they get by however they can—some by selling fake designer handbags or toys, some by stealing.
Michael lived on the streets of Milan for eight months before being given a bed at Casa della Carita, one of a number of charity-run hostels in the city which house immigrants.
“I don’t have a job. I can’t go to the hospital if I am sick,” he says.
Beside him in the hostel’s courtyard, a disparate group of migrants from as far away as Afghanistan and Bangladesh pass the time playing cards.
“Italian people rescued me from their sea. If they didn’t want me they shouldn’t have rescued me,” Michael adds.
Original article
(Posted on July 31, 2009)
Comments
Because of this insanity called diversity, the world is once again going to have what history tells us are “purges,” like what occurred in the Balkans.
It will come as a result of bitter inter-tribal feuding and the types of crimes that France is enduring right now. And the responsibility for all of it will be on the heads of every self-appointed elitist who advocated such an insane policy, which any fool could easily see is completely unworkable under any circumstances.
I saw guys like this all over northern Italy last summer. Generally sprawled on park benches or lying on sidewalks, passed out in the middle of the day (generally only Africans were to be seen doing this — not Afghanis or Bangladeshis). Their initiative seems to have been entirely spent in obtaining passage to Italy, and once there are content to be idle, homeless bums, only rising to beg, or steal, from American tourists like myself. There isn’t even a pretense of looking for work, or any hint of self-respect.
As bad as the Gypsies are, they at least have a plan of sorts, even if it’s a criminal one — the Africans don’t even have that. They are useful only as pawns to Leftist propagandizers like the BBC. Hopefully the Lega Nord can push to have them actually expelled, rather than made subject to these pointless and redundant laws which become targets for the Left.
Perhaps italian laws are tough, but then maybe that is what it takes for illegals to finally understand that if you want to emigrate to another country, to actually live and work there, you have to play by the rules!
That means, get a visa and/or working permit; and when you’ve been (legally, I mean) in that same country for a few years, you may apply for citizenship, and be allowed to vote when it’s election time. Otherwise, you are just an illegal alien and should not be allowed to stay there, or work there without paying any taxes while hoping to benefit from government paid services, etc.
I think those are fairly simple concepts to understand, even for certain African immigrants…
Like I said, it’s about playing by the rules, in a country that is not your own, to begin with.
All I can say is good for Italy! Only recently, African immigrants were rioting over the shooting deaths of a couple of drug pushers, by Italian drug king pins. But why did Italians need to suffer through riots, and overturned cars over a turf war between criminals? They certainly do not need to go the way of France, and endure annual riots, with torched vehicles and structures, by a hostile group of immigrants who feel they still aren’t getting enough, despite having a welfare system supporting them in the suburbs, all at the expense of tax-payers. All these immigrants will bring them is grief in the long run, and soon they will be trying to tell them the Italian flag offends them, the way they have in the UK. It’s good to see some European countries still have a spine.
Now that’s a country I like. I hope they throw out every criminal invader there.
““The life that I’m living in Italy is very poor. I don’t have documents. In Europe, if you don’t have documents, you are nothing—you are an empty vessel.”” - Well, if that’s the case, aside from all the socialism, I like it.
“According to Saskia Sassen, an expert on European immigration at Columbia University in New York, Italy’s new laws could be the beginning of “a catastrophic phase” for not only migrants but also Italian citizens.” - Um, how do Italian citizens suffer from having “migrants” (criminal invaders) deported?
“This law really alters the landscape by criminalising the violation,” she says.
“In the past you were in violation of the law. That doesn’t mean you were a criminal. This law means if you break the law, now you are considered a criminal. That’s a big deal.”” - Oh, and breaking into a country to steal a job and social services is the same as a parking offense? That’s what got them in this mess to begin with.
I wasn’t aware that Benito Mussolini even had an immigration policy.
In addition, people who knowingly house
That sounds like a great idea. You can purge the illegals AND aiding and abetting fugitives.
“In the past you were in violation of the law. That doesn’t mean you were a criminal. This law means if you break the law, now you are considered a criminal. That’s a big deal.”
OMG its hard to even read such nonsense. Of course they were criminals before.
I love the line about not being able to go to the hospitals, when on EARTH will americans start protecting our hospitals against the massive throngs of illegals who abuse them, who get flown in, driven in ambulances from mexico or the 7 months pregnant woman who cross the borders to make an AMERICAN baby.
80% of births in dallas were to mexicans. think about that.
Francois wrote:
Whether they’re legal or illegal, in the long run, is really irrelevant!
They should NEVER be given citizenship or allowed to vote! But of course, the only sure guarantee against that is not to have them physically present in the first place.
Otherwise, the Left (playing on people’s sympathies) will sneak them in as poor, hungry WORKERS, or pathetic, desperate REFUGEES, and then - a few years later - will point to their wretched conditions and will appeal for granting them citizenship… or at least for their children. Then, the fatal process of nation-wrecking has begun, and it will be very difficult to turn back the clock. (Just look at Germany and France, now stuck with 3 generations of “guest workers” who have never seen any other country and who have nowhere else to go.)
It’s essential to keep them completely OUT. As was always historically the case, every country must do its own work and provide its own workers. Imported cheap labor should be outlawed. In the past, geographical distance and the difficulty of travel accomplished this automatically; but now — when easy air travel makes any part of the globe reachable within 24 hours — it must be legislated in a conscious way.
If you want to keep Italy Italian (et cetera with the other countries), you must enact stringent laws and then vigorously ENFORCE them. And I’m sorry, but you must be ruthless. If you succumb to compassion in dealing with invaders, the war will have been lost. (And make no mistake, this is
Yes, Francois, “playing by the rules” is important. But why even have them there? Why should they be playing in Italy AT ALL?
Let them play by their OWN rules — back in Africa.
“when on EARTH will americans start protecting our hospitals against the massive throngs of illegals who abuse them, who get flown in, driven in ambulances from mexico, or the 7 months pregnant women who cross the borders to make an AMERICAN baby.
80% of births in dallas were to mexicans. think about that.”
********************************
Maybe they’re afraid of being called the awful “R” word (hint: rhymes with spacist). That terrible epithet ususally does it. It will silence anyone but the most intrepid.
Exactly. Mentioning the words “Mussolini”, “Fascist” , “Nazi”, etc. is just a propaganda strategy for bringing up hostile emotions and slanting the story to the left. The Left calls anybody (or thing) that they don’t like “fascist”. And most people have been so thoroughly conditioned that they recoil when they hear such words. After a lifetime of conditioning, it’s become a knee-jerk reflex. The media have turned us all into Pavlovian dogs.
I doubt many people think about that. I can’t believe they do. Are they even aware of it? And especially our politicians! I can’t believe they are aware of these facts, and still do nothing.
Maybe they’re afraid of being called the awful “R” word (hint: rhymes with spacist). That terrible epithet ususally does it. It will silence anyone but the most intrepid.
Fear of the R word keeps all politicians in check, because they know a shakedown from a Sharpton or a Jackson type, can spell the end of their political ambitions. So they all vigilantly enforce a PC multicultural agenda.
I saw guys like this all over northern Italy last summer. Generally sprawled on park benches or lying on sidewalks, passed out in the middle of the day (generally only Africans were to be seen doing this — not Afghanis or Bangladeshis). Their initiative seems to have been entirely spent in obtaining passage to Italy, and once there are content to be idle, homeless bums, only rising to beg, or steal, from American tourists like myself. There isn’t even a pretense of looking for work, or any hint of self-respect.
If they do work it is to sell knock-off Italian designer purses to tourists, and usually these knock-offs are stolen.
The EU can’t let any European country out from under their iron-fisted yoke lest they all rebel. The EU has issued statements declaring that hundreds of millions more “immigrants” must be settled in Europe in the near future.
OR ELSE.
http://rtone.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/french_riots.jpg
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/french_race_riots.jpg
http://cofcc.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/castel.jpg
http://cinie.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/1riots.jpg
“If you want to keep Italy Italian (et cetera with the other countries), you must enact stringent laws and then vigorously ENFORCE them.”
Exactly. Mentioning the words “Mussolini”, “Fascist” , “Nazi”, etc. is just a strategy for arousing hostile emotions and slanting the story to the left. They call anybody (or thing) that they don’t like “fascist”. And most people have been so thoroughly conditioned that they recoil when they hear such words. After a lifetime of conditioning, it’s become a knee-jerk reflex. The media have turned us all into Pavlovian dogs.
If they do work it is to sell knock-off Italian designer purses to tourists, and usually these knock-offs are stolen.
I would not call it “working.” They just sit in a crouch on the sidewalk without doing anything, with the handbags laid out in front of them.
I have it on good authority from American expats living there that these bags are not stolen, but are Chinese knockoffs, ordered by the Mafia or Camorra, and used as a means of laundering drug money (if you look closely, you will see the bags are all the same from vendor to vendor). Each African vendor has his “territory” allocated by the mob, and the regular cops won’t touch them. I witnessed one African guy on his own try to set up shop on the Ponte Sisto, and plainclothes “cops” showed up within minutes, roughed him up, and hustled him into a squad car. The American tourists are oblivious to all this, but this is what is actually going down.
GHOST OF RIVERS (Shakespeare Richard III)
So the illegal immigrants are despairing that Italy is enforcing their laws? They should consider themselves lucky they’re not getting a good thrashing on the way out. However, Italy is an ancient, civilized country so Italia give them a free box lunch and ten bucks (7.51 Euros) along with passage home and God speed.
I have it on good authority from American expats living there that these bags are not stolen, but are Chinese knockoffs, ordered by the Mafia or Camorra, and used as a means of laundering drug money (if you look closely, you will see the bags are all the same from vendor to vendor). Each African vendor has his “territory” allocated by the mob, and the regular cops won’t touch them. I witnessed one African guy on his own try to set up shop on the Ponte Sisto, and plainclothes “cops” showed up within minutes, roughed him up, and hustled him into a squad car. The American tourists are oblivious to all this, but this is what is actually going down.
Very interesting information there. And, yes you’re of course right, none of them appear to be working at all, most actually are just stooping or squatting on the ground
I saw a TV documentary here recently in Australia which reported these immigration laws and the `vigilante Italians` who supported it in a most unfavorable light
Anyway its great to see the country of my father and his forefathers
Proponents of Italy’s new anti-immigration laws say they are a much-needed response to a serious problem, but critics say they recall the policies of the fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, reports the BBC World Service’s Madeleine Morris in Milan.
When it comes to passing off slanted, scaremongering Cultural Marxist propaganda as straightforward reporting, this is the left-wing equivalent of hitting a home run! Top that , CNN!
Good for Italy and to hell with the yellow destroyers of the distinct european cultures. Compassion is the tool so commonly used to disolve the natural resolve inherent in sucessful nations,like the gypsy’s nocking at your door. There is a male and female component to life, Yin & Yang as we know Thus The masculine form and definition and the Feminine nurture etc. These need to be harmonized..You cannot have a happy family whithout knowing who its members are! Definition compliments substance,..since Hitler there has been an effort to continually undermine white male resolve and self respect. I think its been enough of this!!! The continual ploy of beggars comming with their hands open and sorrowful eyes with hidden serpentine designs is getting old.
“I really think many good, decent Italians along with their descendants in the US, Australia, etc., possess a strong racial identity and sense of what needs to be done to preserve their heritage and culture — even more so than do their Anglo cousins.”
Could it be, perhaps, because Italy has an ancient history of being confronted and challenged by Africa? For many centuries, Africa — facing it across the water — has been the enemy, the attacker, the menace, the Great Threat. For Britishers (as with Scandinavians), it was not. Africa was remote and inconsequential. For them (until now) it has never been seen as any kind of threat. For most, it still isn’t.
Spain and the Balkans, as frontier societies, share a similar bloody history of living under the threat of invasion and being forced to repulse it. They too should not be naive.
GHW..A common idea circulated on this fomumn is that the whites most infatuated with blacks and miscegination etc. are generally the lest experienced with blacks on a real life basis(Not sitcoms for instance). As you mentioned Italy historicaly on the lower frontier of western Europe has a very real running knowledge with its fruit. An older friend of mine was in Italy during WWII he knew a woman that raised a family in an outpost somewhere in N Africa. The local Arab kids came and went in the house with her own children growing up as family. When the war came these same Arabs killed her (I think) Entire family right in front of her..She never stopped grieving..My friend Says Never trust these people. I don’t take his sadvice but ..just mentioning a for instance. As well as you mentioned..Two Very important battles were waged* One (Marathon) The other The (Punic wars)..These allowed Europe to evolve according to its indigenous nature and not be ruled over by the great cultures so sucessful at the time. “Fifteen Decisive Battles” (Sir Edward Creasy) Edward may be wrong but is Creasy.
My own theory is that we Italians are simply racially different from Northern Europeans.
Mind you, Italians aren’t congenital right-wingers; we also have innate features that draw us to the left. For instance, Italians are much less warlike and war-loving than Northerners; the great majority of us are very pacifist, even in comparison to other present-day Europeans. We are the country with the least support for death penalty in the West. We love diplomacy and compromise. I’m not saying that any of these traits are good or bad. But all these “soft” traits I believe go along with greater factionalism - they evolved precisely because otherwise we would have killed each other long ago. It’s the other side of the same coin.
# 26 Italian…Yes well put, Though I’m American, Being first generation on my fathers side and second on my mothers,.. all from Italy, I can vouch for this regional practical quality in Italions. I think “one in the hand” is a normal style amongst Italians who are wary of exessive lofty Ideals. Italians are sort of homebody’s relying more on personal, visceral experience than vague principles. A subtle balance of reason and emotion, siding slightly with emotions or gut instincts I think. An espresso and ones friends goes a long way in Italia*
When will our country, the united states, finally wise up and have legislation such as this? I fear, not for a long time. We have a right to protect our country from illegal aliens. Oh, excuse me, undocumented immigrants. I wouldn’t want them to feel bad while they’re breaking my country’s laws. If we got rid of all the illegal aliens we wouldn’t have a budget crisis. I think someone else mentioned how they clog our medical facilities, primarily our ERs, with births and anything else you can think of. It’s time we stand up and do something about it.
