Andrew Harrison, Wall Street Journal, June 3, 2009
Random violence against Indian students is damaging the reputation of Australia’s growing tertiary-education industry.
More than 1,000 mostly Indian students protested the violence in a demonstration in the city Sunday and Monday. One recent attack in Melbourne left an Indian stabbing victim in a coma.
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd on Monday {snip} noted there are 90,000 Indians studying in Australia and more than 200,000 Australians of Indian descent.
Education of foreign students has become big business in Australia, generating 15.5 billion Australian dollars (US$12.54 billion) in 2008, Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard said last week. Foreigners now make up 25% of students, up from just under 10% in 1997.
The tertiary-education sector is now the nation’s third-largest export earner behind coal and iron ore. In Victoria state, education is the biggest export earner.
The number of Indian students has doubled in the past three years, with two-thirds studying at private colleges.
Violence against the foreign students has been escalating over the past four years, according to Gautam Gupta, spokesman for the Federation of Indian Students of Australia. In Victoria state, police said 1,447 people of Indian origin were victims of crimes such as robberies and assaults in the year ending June 30, 2008, an increase from 1,082 in the previous year.
{snip}
In India, Australia is being labeled a racist nation in media reports, a claim made a number of times in recent years around Asia.
{snip}
Original article
Email
Andrew Harrison
at andrew.harrison@dowjones.com .
(Posted on June 3, 2009)
Comments
Who is committing this violence? If it’s the good progressive Australia that I know, it’s probably some minority group that has an axe to grind with India, probably Pakistani.
If Australia has the equivalent to the American H-1B visa program, then this is bad news. One of my state’s U.S. Senators, Dick Durbin, supposedly wants to change the H-1B rules to prevent abuse by the cheap labor lobby. He has proposed not to let prospective H-1B visa users recruit from outside of the United States to fill the visas.
I don’t know if Durbin is misguided, or he does know what I’m about to say and is therefore being deceitful to gain sympathy. But he’s misguided or deceitful in two ways: (1) Do you actually think that MSFT, Intel, GOOG, ORCL, or any of the many big companies that use H-1B actually go to India to recruit Indians? No, because they don’t have to. India for them is as close as their nearest university campus. They recruit Indian students at American colleges that are here on student visas and are CSIT majors about to graduate. (2) To the small extent that anyone goes outside of America to recruit those who will have H-1B visas, it is actually good for us, because they’re almost always white. Two examples that pop right into my head are Linus Torvalds, and DVD Jon (Jon Lech Johansen), who Michael Robertson saved from political persecution by Norway’s copywrong extremists, RIAA/MPAA equivalents. Linus and DVD Jon are probably the furthest thing on Earth from cheap labor. They come from Finnish (of Swedish descent) and Norway, respectively, both high wage high standard of living countries, and the latter’s H-1B is more political than anything.
“Federation of Indian Students of Australia”
Why do organizations like this even exist in Australia? Since when do Indians have a right to attend Australian schools?…or any Western schools for that matter?
Just last week two Indian fellas were robbed and beaten with axe handles by a gang of Sudanese refugees. I wonder if Mr Rudd is going to count those attacks with the aforementioned statisstics. I also wonder how many of the above stats are of similar cause.
I am glad that whites are beginning to wake up. But in a way I am starting to get disturbed by the increase in white violence we keep hearing about.
In our country, a lot of the time, when the news reports a major shooting, there is a white person involved. There was that story about the man up in Pittsburgh who shot the police because he was afraid that Obama would take his gun rights away. There is the story of the white man shooting the abortionist. There have been many stories making the news lately, in which the shooter is white.
Yes, I understand that the news is biased, and for every white person who commits a crime, there are 30 to 50 blacks, hispanics, and arabs etc… who are doing the same. However, my point still stands, and is still valid.
Now we have this story about whites being violent towards Indians. What exactly provoked this violence? As I said before, I am glad that our people are waking up, but violence just doesn’t seem to be the traditional way whites handle things.
Could it be that whites have had enough, the tip of the iceburg has been reached, and that whites feel like this is the only way to take their governments back? Are we as whites getting desperate?
Courtney,
“In India, Australia is being labeled a racist nation in media reports, a claim made a number of times in recent years around Asia.”
It they feel that way, why do they keep coming? It’s amazing that non-Whites are always trumpeting that Whites are so racist yet they keep clamoring to get into majority White countries? Odd, don’t you think if Whites are so racist.
This story isnt actually what it seems. They arent actually racially motivated attacks. This has been covered by a few journalists in australia. Some of the attacks have been caught on security camera and werent done by white people. The problem is Victoria (the state melbourne is in) has a problem with police chronically underreporting crime to make their stats look better, in order to gain more funding. People have been complaining about it, but now they only listen once the indian students cry racism.
And in response to passingthru, Australia has a big money industry of giving international students college education. Private institutions are popping up all over the place to train them.
“Indian students represent about one-fifth of the 415,000 foreigners studying in Australia, second only to those from China, Access Economics said in a recent report prepared for the Australian Council for Private Education and Training.”
Did it ever occur to these people to just stay home and not have to worry about being in a foreign land where the natural inclination of the population….any population….is to resent and dislike foreigners?
Can anybody tell me if these people are being forced to stay?
“In India, Australia is being labeled a racist nation in media reports, a claim made a number of times in recent years around Asia.” Perhaps they should stay home. I do not go to black neighborhoods because i know I will not be safe.
The elephant in the room, the one that the media is determined to ignore, is that many of the attacks against Indians are carried out by gangs of Africans - Sudanese and Somali ‘refugees’ that the government has foisted upon us.
Indian and Pakistani taxi drivers have also been attacked, beaten and robbed by the same gangs.
‘Now we have this story about whites being violent towards Indians. What exactly provoked this violence? As I said before, I am glad that our people are waking up, but violence just doesn’t seem to be the traditional way whites handle things.’
This is not a story about whites being violent towards Indians. I live in Sydney. These attacks are perpetrated by other races that have traditional dislikes for Indians. The races aren’t mentioned because they want you to assume the perpetrators are white.
“Now we have this story about whites being violent towards Indians. What exactly provoked this violence? As I said before, I am glad that our people are waking up, but violence just doesn’t seem to be the traditional way whites handle things.”
It seems very odd to me that you think white people have no tradition of violence. Do you read any history at all?
“Could it be that whites have had enough, the tip of the iceburg has been reached, and that whites feel like this is the only way to take their governments back? Are we as whites getting desperate?”
These attacks have nothing to do with “taking their governments back”.
I have never known white people to be “desperate”. I have known them to be DECISIVE, in the same way as a pit bull dog. Once the conditions for violence are met, the reaction seems to be automatic…..without long-winded discussions (which seem to be their trademark). But violent whites do not talk you to death, or threaten, or telegraph their attack with loud funny words.
They are quiet….even silent.
OK, the attacks aren’t mostly by Whites. But what if they
passingthru: “Why do organizations like this even exist in Australia? Since when do Indians have a right to attend Australian schools?…or any Western schools for that matter?”
Since PM Howard tried to increase foreign student intake. It actually DOES give a lot to the nation financially (more than our lotteries at least), and the foreign students I’ve met are keen and quite friendly. They’re not the overtrumpeted “third-world” stereotype. They have genuine and enlightening opinions. And yes, these attacks are sometimes racially motivated. Around Sydney they’re known as “curry bashings”, and ARE mostly perpetrated by whites, although I’m sure there’s quite a lot of other races involved too.
“violence just doesn’t seem to be the traditional way whites handle things.” Oh really? What about WWI, WWII, the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, Viet Nam, we didn’t talk the Indians out of this country, we took it by force.
Kennedy said, “When we make peaceful change impossible we make violent revolution inevitable.” In poll after poll we say we don’t want Third World immigration but we just get more of it. Only because of fear of being forcibly thrown in jail by our government do we not move to stop this nonwhite migration.
Violence seems to be a very traditional way to handle things by all races of people.
We have too many foreign students in Australia. Our pathetic left wing Socialist Govt. would prefer to invite foreigners into our Universities instead of training our own people, no wonder the so called skills shortage. There are 500,000 foreign students, mainly from Asia in Australia at the moment, way too many, we only have a population of 22,000,000. These Asian students do not benefit Australia but their own people and their communities. These asians have brought down wages, filled our brothels with their most promising, caused a housing / rental crisis and created social friction.
The Indians have a caste system, these bofheads are the creators of racism. Most of the attackers of these curry munchers are black. Just like the States most of our crime is perpetrated by non-whites.
I live in Sydney too and what Paul said is correct.
I should also add that the students aren’t coming here for a great education. Our universities and colleges have been dumbed down to account for all the full-fee paying Asian students who can’t speak English. They come here because tertiary education is a precursor to immigration.
Chris wrote: “They come here because tertiary education is a precursor to immigration.”
Indeed. As the below AMREN article explains, Australian universities “market themselves as providing education but they know, and certainly their prospective applicants know, that they are marketing permanent residency visas.”
“The Australian Immigration Crisis” - http://www.amren.com/ar/2008/01/#article1
Immigration is the ONLY reason the vast majority of these people are in Australia, talk to some of them. The worst part is many of these Asian students are going to be the elites of the future in Australia. They’re not studying to become plumbers, electricians, or bricklayers - they’re going to be the next doctors, surgeons, dentists, pharmacists, economists, bankers, lawyers, etc.
A Canadian lecturer at an Australian university one said “In 50 years Australia is going to have an Asian ruling class”. He was promptly given the boot, as you would (unfortunately) expect, but he was dead right. I predict white Australia is going to revolt against this in the next 10-20 years, probably not before Europe does, but not long after.
It they feel that way, why do they keep coming? It’s amazing that non-Whites are always trumpeting that Whites are so racist yet they keep clamoring to get into majority White countries? Odd, don’t you think if Whites are so racist.
It’s almost like when you were a teenager. You thought you were parents were lame, were bossy, etc, yet we always said, “hey, mom/hey dad, can I have $20?” Understand those non-whites that live in white socities and complain about it have a rebellious teenager’s mindset and don’t be ashamed to tell them that’s how they’re acting.
Zarathustra wrote at 8:42 PM on June 3:
And in response to passingthru, Australia has a big money industry of giving international students college education. Private institutions are popping up all over the place to train them.
> It is good to get some “man on the scene” reports. It is so refreshing after all the political news reporting, which isn’t really news at all.
It looks like Australia is simply taking over the educating of Asians and Indians that America has been increasingly curtailing since 9/11 and the growing lack of resources due to the Hispanic expansion in America.
The #19 Poster on June 4th wrote that in 10-20 years, White Australians would revolt from this mass immigration of Asians, as well as Afrian Blacks.
The Writer also stated that the Europeans would revolt first.
Well, I would like to know about a more concerted effort to revolt against this Racial Genocide of Whites, throughout Europe, Australia, Canada, and the USA, and to bring home the fact that we are tired of being displaced in OUR COUNTRIES, by Foreigners.
One coordianted movement could do it.
Most of these attacks have been perpetrated by African, and Pacific Islander, gangs.
Late breaking news: The left wing of India’s body politic, in response to these assaults on Indians studying in Australia, are asking a question we here on AR have asked for some time and rhetorically: If importing Indians is the way to make your country great, then why shouldn’t they stay in India and make India great?
“Late breaking news: The left wing of India’s body politic, in response to these assaults on Indians studying in Australia, are asking a question we here on AR have asked for some time and rhetorically: If importing Indians is the way to make your country great, then why shouldn’t they stay in India and make India great?”
What an insulting conclusion for Indians to come to. In order to ask this question you have to first assume that Indians are making Australia great to begin with. The fact of the matter is that while they can make India great, Australia would do just fine without them. Indians are so arrogant, they make me sick. Oh how in the world did white countries get to the moon, split the atom, or discover America without Indians?????
This is a continuation of my last post…..
In many ways Indians disgust me more than any other immigrant group (or nonwhite group). What disgusts me about them is their arrogance that they haven’t even earned yet and the fact that they are the only group that is attributed with qualities by Western medias all over the world that aren’t even realities.
Indians themselves have their own rewritten histories about their country that aren’t even based on facts. Do a search on it. Most Indians think that all knowledge in the world originally came from India, even the stuff that is well documented as coming from Greece. They believe that India was an advanced society until the British came in and “messed things up”.
That is why now, according to them, India is such a mess of a country and why Indian engineers etc… are entitled to move to white countries and do our work that we are “too stupid to do ourselves”. Afterall, according to them, it is unfair that the white man went to the moon first, considering that all the science and math needed for that was taken from India.
This is what these people actually believe. And our Western liberal professors and teachers feed into this garbage. Our media and politicians tell them day in and day out “we need you in our countries”.
I am sick of it. We have this third world immigrant group scattered around the Western world that, as I said above, is given positive attributes by Western leaders that aren’t even realities. The fact of the matter is that most science has always come out of the West, going back to the Greeks, and this is exactly why the West is great today and India IS NOT.
The hypocrisy of this group of people disgusts me. The fact that they have the nerve to move to our societies and look down on us without acknowledging the true reason they are here to begin with. They are obviously here because our societies are superior to theirs’.
It is time for us as whites to stop kowtowing to this group of people. We don’t need them among us and we never did.
It was my knowledge that many of the foreign students in Australia usually stay in Australia for only a year or two as exchange students.
To Korean guy,
“It was my knowledge that many of the foreign students in Australia usually stay in Australia for only a year or two as exchange students”.
I wish they only stayed for 1 year. Many foreign students do not come to Australia on exchange programmes but those exchange programmes are usually between Australian High Schools and foreign H.S.
Many of these foreign students study at Universities but due to Australia’s lax immigration laws many foreigners study at bogus Private Training Collleges or at TAFE which is a Govt. run College. They are allowed to work 20 hours per week and many end up packing shelves and cleaning toilets at Supermarkets. Big business wants these 2nd rate workers as they are cheaper than Australian but hiring them only reduces Australia’s standard of living.
India, the cradle of science and spirituality, sends its students to Western universities? Should not it be the other way around?
26 — Courtney wrote at 12:42 PM on June 6:
29 — Anonymous wrote at 6:53 AM on June 7:
To both Courtney and Anonymous above.
India was an advanced country in the ancient and Medieval
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_philosophy
http://www.archive.org/texts/flipbook/flippy.php?id=historyof
If you are interested, here is a reference book on Indian
I agree with Courtney. Indians are obnoxious, and arrogant, to the point that a few that were so arrogant to Whites in the area, had their Businesses go out-of-business. When was the last time that a Gas Station went out of business? Especially a Gas Station that was at the same location, since 1958?
But, these geniuses managed to do it. They drove what few Whites that went there, away.
I never went to their Sevice Stations, and I certainly would never use them to repair my car, or do a State Inspection.
The bottom line is, go to Stores, and Service Stations, that are White owned. It is better all around. I am not saying to cut your nose off to spite your face, and not use an Indian Store, in an emergency, but just don’t do it every time you shop.
There were renowned Universities like Nalanda,
The same could be said of the universities and libraries of ancient Alexandria and places in Egypt, but things change, customs and people stagnate and this is why cities end up 2 or 3 hundred feet UNDER current cities.
Mitchell,
You have already lost some credibility by posting sources from Wikipedia. I never said India isn’t responsible for some science. And I never said India didn’t have some sort of a civilization prior to the British.
However, my point is that despite all of India’s accomplishments, it doesn’t compare to what the West has achieved. Look in a reliable Encyclopedia on the history of science. Over 75% of the space inside is given to achievements of Europeans. There is a reason Europe created the modern world and nobody else did.
You can sit here and get offended by my posts all you want to, but at the end of the day we have to sit and wonder why certain nations are advanced and others are not, and why Indians are moving to white countries and NOT the other way around.
Are you saying all this happened by chance? I notice you didn’t make any comments about the ridiculous history that Indians believe in, which I reference above. Are you saying that you believe that garbage also?
Indians themselves have their own rewritten histories about their country that aren’t even based on facts. Do a search on it.
The fact of the matter is that most science has always come out of the West, going back to the Greeks, and this is exactly why the West is great today and India IS NOT.
26 — Courtney wrote at 12:42 PM on June 6:
To answer the above first statement of yours, I assume you
The actual fact is the Aryan Theory is bunk. Evidence from
India has a much longer and reasonably well documented
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch6.htm
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch7.htm
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch5.htm
Jaya Deva,
Why is it that whites can’t ever discuss these topics on here without Indians interfering? Don’t you have your own websites to post on? Why does our opinion matter to you if you really are as great of a people as you claim to be?
To start with, I never even mentioned the Aryan invasion stuff in my post. But you sure jumped on that one real quickly. I think it is pathetic that that is such a sensitive topic for your people. If what you Indians claim about the Aryan invasion theory is true, then how come the opinions of Westerners matter to you so much? It is even more pathetic that you are wasting your time on this sort of a website to discuss this with me, but that is a whole other issue there.
The Aryan invasion theory is well accepted in the West. The evidence points to it, and I am not going to waste my time arguing with you about it, and you aren’t going to change my mind, so you might as well drop it.
In regards to Ancient Greeks, they were European just like Northern Europeans today are. The arabs didn’t do much with it (science) because it was never their science to begin with. It has always belonged to Europe. The Greeks of today are said to have some Turkish blood, so that explains why they aren’t quite as advanced anymore.
“With the exception of Modern Science, if most of the
If you aren’t going to read my post carefully, I am not going to waste my time arguing with you. I never said India had NO science. All I am saying is most science came out of the West. Every reliable Encyclopedia or book on the history of science makes this clear.
Your argument is similar to saying, “well if most science came from Europe, then how do you explain the Aztecs, or the Egyptians, etc…?”. Do you understand the silliness of your argument? And what exactly did this “advanced” Indian civilization do that was superior to what the Greeks did?
“How do you explain the fact that roughly from 3000 BC
Your argument is making less and less sense. Again you are assuming something here. You are assuming I am only focusing on the past 150 years, when I made it clear that I am focusing on the time period going back to the Greeks. Please list in detail these numerous scientific achievements from India that came about during that period you mention. You make it sound as if it is such a long list.
For some reason every history of science book I read somehow misses this. Please tell me…what are these “numerous” advancements that came out of India during that time, and how do they outnumber what the West has accomplished in all it’s history going back to Greece? And if they were really all that important, for THAT LONG of a period of time, then why didn’t India create the modern world before Europe?
Western history books give Indians the credit they deserve…trust me. All I am saying is that at least 75% of history’s science has come out of Europe. Can you really argue with that?
So why is your cut off point 1800 AD? Are you saying the British came in and destroyed everything at that point? If that is the case, then you are acknowledging the superiority of the British and the inferiority of your own people. I would like for you to define just how advanced your people were before 1800, and what exactly is keeping them from being advanced today, if they ever really were as advanced as you claim.
As I said before, things happen for a reason. There is a reason Europe created the modern world and nobody else came close (NOT EVEN CLOSE).
“Lastly, the present standing of any country for that
I already explained Greece. Persia is similar. Persians were Indo-Europeans. Today they aren’t as much, due to intermixture with other people, and Islam has also held them back. Iraq and Egypt had certain levels of civilization but it is not as if they developed any major science or significant roots that led to the modern world as Greece and Rome did.
You seem to be implying that just because different ancient civilizations existed, that all of their achievements must have been equal, and that is not the case at all.
“Similarly, the past record of a country/geographical
While Indians, Chinese, Egyptians, and Mesopotamians were living in lush river valleys, Northern Europeans were dealing with a harsh Northern environment. That of the Greeks was even more harsh than their southern neighbors elsewhere. Yet it is a wonder the Greeks and then later the Northern Europeans progressed as much as they did, don’t you think?
Sorry for my delay in replying to you. I have
Indo-Iranian homeland:
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch6.htm
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch7.htm
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch5.htm
The Ottoman troops that occupied Greece were NOT Turkic
-Indian Science and Technology, 1000 AD-1800 AD
-History of Hindu chemistry (2 volumes)
-India’s Scientific Tradition
Jaya Deva,
No, I am not going to waste my time sending you emails or reading those sources you listed, or prolonging this discussion for too long. I am well aware of the greatness of my people, it is well documented in countless history books I have read, and you are never going to change my mind. I am so confident about this that I most certainly don’t feel the need to go post on Indian websites about this sort of thing.
So why are you on here if you really feel that India is such a wonderful place with a wonderful civilization? You should be confident in the greatness of your people and you shouldn’t feel the need to waste time writing long posts on this website trying to prove to white people how great your people really are.
You haven’t really addressed the main point of my argument. Why are Indians entitled to live in Western nations if they aren’t going to acknowledge the superiority of Western Civilization?
I find your post very hateful. After reading your analysis on the Greeks it appears to me that you are trying to claim that racial Europeans contributed nothing at all to ancient civilizations.
According to you, we only appeared in history at around the year 1500 AD and afterwards. So according to you, we are ALSO supposed to assume that the West moved ahead (TREMENDOUSLY) and the rest of the world started to become primitive and backwards at that point, only by pure chance? This has nothing to do with the fact that perhaps science has always been a uniquely European endeavor? Or at least that Europeans have done the most with science and other elements of society that lead to the modern world?
In the paragraph where you are explaining why India isn’t advanced today etc…, you continue to lose credibility. You are proving my point further by making excuses as to why Indian science could never really ever be called science in the first place. That might as well be what you are saying, at least, but of course you won’t admit to it.
You insist that India was doing everything right up to a certain point, and then by pure luck some people from an opposite corner of the world started off where you left off, creating the modern world and reshaping the entire world while they were at it, while your country in the mean time became primitive.
An Indian observer who has been following our conversation sent me a personal email by clicking on my name. He told me that people like you are making the other Indians who come to Western countries look really bad. He told me that India has hardly accomplished anything of value compared to Western nations, and that he and most other Indians acknowledge this and this is why , likewise, they come to Western countries to go to school, to begin with. I think you should take his advice.
You , and Indians like you, continue to come on here and write posts of this nature. You think you are entitled to come and live in white countries, but yet you won’t acknowledge the superiority of white countries. If that is the case then please go back to India. You are being a hypocrite for staying here. If you keep it up, the worse things get in this country, the more white people are going to feel very angry towards people like you.
A point I am going to leave you with is the fact that in all countries stretching from Italy to India, it is the upper classes that have the lighter skin. Is this just a coincidence? And scientific studies have also proven that the upper castes in India have European genes ( I have done my reading on this as well).
You insist that India was doing everything right up to a certain point, and then by pure luck some people from an opposite corner of the world started off where you left off, creating the modern world and reshaping the entire world while they were at it, while your country in the mean time became primitive.
An Indian observer who has been following our conversation sent me a personal email by clicking on my name. He told me that people like you are making the other Indians who come to Western countries look really bad. He told me that India has hardly accomplished anything of value compared to Western nations, and that he and most other Indians acknowledge this and this is why , likewise, they come to Western countries to go to school, to begin with. I think you should take his advice.
Courtney,
To answer your first statement above, Science doesn’t
As for the second part of your post, tell your Indian
All races have a few genes in common. Take a look at the
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/4/843.full?ck=nck
I think Jaya Deva wins this debate pretty conclusively with lucid, coherent, well-researched arguments supported by solid, sholastic evidence. It is very evident that this poster is an articulate, well educated graduate student. The WN movement needs to attract sholastic people of equal quality to effectively argue it’s point of view in public discussion forums where issues of race are debated. Indians tend to argue theit positions very effectively.
Anonymous,
You have missed the whole point here. We have plenty of scholastic people in this movement. I have argued tiresomely with Indians on here over this stuff many many times in the past. I have posted plenty of evidence for my argument.
Quite frankly I am tired of wasting my time with it. They shouldn’t be living in our countries, and it speaks volumes about them that they waste their time on here instead of on an Indian pride website.
I am glad you think he won the argument. Good for you.
And who says that the sources he posts are better or as trustworthy as what I have researched and posted in the past? Not all sources are trustworthy. Indians may argue their positions effectively but most of what they say isn’t true. And why do they need to waste their time on here arguing their positions if they are so confident about the greatness of their people?
