AP, May 5, 2009
With mariachis, tequila and parades, Cinco De Mayo will be celebrated this week in parties across the nation, kicking off a commemoration of Mexican heritage in the United States as a pseudo-holiday that has been adopted by the general population.
But for Dagoberto Reyes, a Salvadorian immigrant living in Los Angeles, May 5 is more a reminder of the dominance Mexican culture has in a country that is home to immigrants from many Latin American countries. His prime example: Los Angeles-area public schools.
“Our kids go to this school system, and the school system is more preoccupied with Mexico’s history, and not the rest of Latin America’s, much less El Salvador’s,” said Reyes, director of Casa de la Cultura, a Salvadorian community center. “They came back celebrating Cinco De Mayo. That holiday means nothing to us.”
It’s a popular misconception that Cinco de Mayo is Mexico’s Independence Day. The date actually celebrates the 1862 Battle of Puebla, in which Mexican forces stopped an invading French army. It’s a date barely celebrated in Mexico and not in any other Latin American country.
{snip} Mexican culture has been the dominant Latino force in the United States, often leaving other Latinos to adapt or resent.
It’s often as simple as commanding the dominant slang—for example, a jacket for Central Americans is “chaqueta,” but for Mexicans it is “chamarra”—but it can range to more overt hostility or competition in the work force, and it can spark worries of losing cultural identity.
Ignorance and apathy by Americans
Ignorance and apathy by Americans adds to the mix.
“Not many of them know their geography,” said Diego Martinez, who has had to explain to several people the island nation of the Dominican Republic is not located in Mexico. “I like Mexican food very much, but I’m Dominican.”
After Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean are the two regions that have sent the most Latin American immigrants. Salvadorians are the second-largest group of immigrants with more than 1 million.
This population difference can mean a struggle for immigrants vying for better position in American society and in the country’s economy, said Luis Guarnizo, a sociology professor with a focus on migration at the University of California, Davis.
{snip}
‘Latinos look for other Latinos’
Immigrants seek connections to their homelands through music and other kinds of media, but in a place like Seattle, where the vast majority of Hispanics are Mexican, radio stations play Mexican music and television news is tailored to Mexican interests, said Jaime Mendez, who anchors Seattle’s only Spanish-language newscast at the local Univision affiliate.
{snip}
Focusing on differences within the Latino community is not productive, undermines wider efforts and paints a broad brush over a complex issue, said Beatriz Cortez, coordinator for the Central American Studies program at California State University-Northridge.
The immigration debate of the past couple of years, Cortez added, has also galvanized Hispanics to group together even more than before.
“It is important for each group to have its own space, as we do here in the Central American program, to construct the way we’re portrayed. But at the same time, we’re forming alliances,” Cortez said.
{snip}
Original article
(Posted on May 5, 2009)
Comments
In that, it is like St. Patrick’s Day used to be, and that is, celebrated among the Irish diaspora outside of Ireland as a reminder of their Irishness, but not so much in Ireland itself. That has changed recently, as thanks to the recent “Celtic Tiger” economic renaissance in Ireland, the home country itself has adopted St. Patrick’s Day as a major holiday as a source of pride.
Also, like St. Patrick’s Day, Cinco de Mayo has become an excuse for Americans not of either Irish or Mexican ancestry respectively to go out and drink.
But the comparison isn’t totally valid: The majority of Mexican-Americans today live in political jurisdictions that either they run lock, stock and barrel, or they co-run with pandering white liberals, and therefore get almost everything they can or want. And in the rare instance of that not happening, Mexico is right next door. The Irish needed and still benefit from reminders of their Irishness, the Mexicans bring and recreate Mexico with them, so why do they need every May 5 to remind them when it’s all around them the other 364 days a year? I’d sooner give the American Southwest to Ireland than Mexico.
If one were to organize a cocktail party attended by four middle class Hispanics from every Latin American country, Spain, PR, and the US; the pecking order would soon be apparent as to culture. Mexico, PR, DR, most of Central America at the lower echelons with Spain, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Costa Rica, and Colombia at the upper echelons.
This Cinco de Mayo phenomenon is bizarre. As I understand, it not much celebrated in Mexico, but is much more popular in the USA.
It is an assertion of Mexican-ness which we should view with concern, considering that Mexico has irredentist designs on places like California. El Salvador and other Hispanic countries have no such claims on parts of the United States, but Mexico is another story. Therefore, we should not be celebrating their holidays here or giving them any sort of legitimacy that will only be used against us.
This was a phony holiday thrust on us by Mexican nationals and their supporters and apologies. What they wanted to do was create a Mexican version of Columbus Day or St. Patrick’s Day.
Unfortunately, only Americans have picked up on it and run with it. Every news broadcaster and weatherman I’ve seen today has used this phrase and I can’t wait for this day to end.
Well, I can understand why other Latinos might be bothered by the hoopla surrounding everything Mexican. It bothers most people to see how it is purposely pushed by big business, and the past several administrations. Percieved brainwashing bothers people, especially if it’s done by the government.
To celebrate anything that has to do with the failed countries they left is the height of stupidity and arrogance.
When they fled their old countries, surely they weren’t satisfied with its opportunities, because they had to go to another country to find work and decent living conditions.
I don’t see large masses of people from European countries wailing about not being able to celebrate a holiday that was important in their own countries.
The Irish have their St. Patrick’s Day parade, but they’re celebrating a religious figure that is a part of the religion of the entire country, and they do not try to push their holiday off on everybody not Irish, while the mestizos are doing just the opposite.
If one were to organize a cocktail party attended by four middle class Hispanics from every Latin American country, Spain, PR, and the US; the pecking order would soon be apparent as to culture. Mexico, PR, DR, most of Central America at the lower echelons with Spain, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Costa Rica, and Colombia at the upper echelons.
Posted by Flaxen-headed Strumpet at 6:14 PM on May 5
If? I go to parties like this all the time, and I can assure you that there is no “pecking order.” One thing is clear, though, once we start speaking to each other in Spanish, typically around white Americans who may appear to be uncomfortable with so much “diversity,” the gringos fade into a corner and usually leave early.
By the way, the Spaniards in the group, myself included, are always talking down the white Americans, often to their faces.
The French had to retreat because they were low on ammunition. They would later return, capture Mexico city and ruke the country under Emperor Maximillian of austria. The french left because the USA was threatening to invade. As far as I know this is the only battle the Mexicans ever won.
Cinco de Mayo is simply another way for Mexican-Americans to feel “included” and “integrated,” in this massive, multi-cultural catasrophe that’s getting worse every day.
And, yes, it is also just another excuse for people to drink!
Um, if cinco de mayo is the celebration of mexican independence day why the hell are we celebrating it in America?
This puts one in mind of another fraudulent, ethno-racially exclusive holiday…Kwanzaa! Yes, another phoney, concocted occasion that we are all expected to “embrace” in the name of “multiculturalism and diversity.” Isn’t the celebration of your demise wonderful?!?! The madness of our times are unparalleled in history…
So now it’s Salvadoreans vs Mexicans. This just goes to show how diversity does not work.
“If? I go to parties like this all the time, and I can assure you that there is no “pecking order.” One thing is clear, though, once we start speaking to each other in Spanish, typically around white Americans who may appear to be uncomfortable with so much “diversity,” the gringos fade into a corner and usually leave early. By the way, the Spaniards in the group, myself included, are always talking down the white Americans, often to their faces.”
No pecking order? Good one BI. That’s a joke, right? I guess that’s why all the telenovela stars look like Celia Cruz and Evo Morales, right?
BI, every time Anglo-Saxons got our ducks in a row and engaged in armed combat with Spaniards or Mexicans, Anglo-Saxons won. Spaniards, Mexicans, Black Spaniard Insurgents, they can talk down Anglos all they want in cocktail parties. It won’t last forever.
“By the way, the Spaniards in the group, myself included, are always talking down the white Americans, often to their faces.”—
“By the way, the Spaniards in the group, myself included, are always talking down the white Americans, often to their faces.”
If you are referring to true Spaniards and not merstizos, you must be living in the twilight zone, because Spaniards dislike blacks intensely, as well as mestizos.
The had a bloody riot against South Americans a few months ago, because they felt they were being inundated with them.
But it’s always good to read your posts, because they place you and other blacks in a far worse light than any of us can with mere words.
This concept of unity of “Hispanics” is meant to serve the ideologues and activists. Each nationality and ethnic group within this realm can have very hostile feelings towards others in the “group”. I have a Dominican brother-in-law who once said that if someone tried to equate a Dominican with a Puerto Rican there would be trouble.
Someone mentioned St. Patrick’s Day, and I thought I’d mention that I read where St. Patrick was a Christian and a Scot who was taken into slavery in Ireland.
My son has a lot of Scottish from my side and Irish from his father’s side. :)
(On a side note, I heard someone refer to Cinco de Mayo as Cinco de Drinko….)
The hispanics lack heros or any other anniverseries, We must not forget that the big hispanic hero is Che Givera who was defeated by the bolivian army.
Funny, but true. I once read that in Bolivia all their monuments are to generals who had lost wars.
“By the way, the Spaniards in the group, myself included, are always talking down the white Americans, often to their faces.”
Wait, a minute. I thought you were a black (racist). I’ve seen you post here from time to time always harping on whites, but now I’m confused. Please explain. How can you be a black Spaniard? I mean, could someone be a Chinese African?
“So you are an insurgent Black Spaniard??”
I could be wrong but I believe Black Insurgent has stated that his mother is Spanish, while his father was African or black American. I assume he holds Spanish citizenship. Of course, there may well be more than one poster claiming to be “Black Insurgent.”
I have a Dominican brother-in-law who once said that if someone tried to equate a Dominican with a Puerto Rican there would be trouble.
The older generation among my Puerto Rican in-laws say Puerto Rico is being ruined by all the Dominican illegal immigrants.
Black Spaniard! What is that?
I`m from Spain and there werent blacks here until 10 years ago when we started been flooded with senegalese inmigrants.
Once we start speaking to each other in Spanish, typically around white Americans who may appear to be uncomfortable with so much “diversity,” the gringos fade into a corner and usually leave early.
By the way, the Spaniards in the group, myself included, are always talking down the white Americans, often to their faces.
Posted by Black Insurgent at 10:30 PM on May 5
My father was one of those “gringos” and though he never learned to speak Spanish, we kids did. And it certainly came in handy to my sister who inherited his pale skin. When we were in high school the mexican girls would talk about her in spanish right in front of her face thinking this little gringa wouldn’t understand them. Her favorite ploy was to let them talk for a while, then speak to them in spanish and watch their expressions. As the commercial says Priceless!!
“Ignorance and apathy by Americans adds to the mix.”
““Not many of them know their geography,” said Diego Martinez”
I’ve got news for you Diego, not many people around the world know their geography and Latin Americans certainly don’t as I’ve found after talking to them. Anyway, why should Americans or anyone else know or care about Latin American holidays? Do Latin Americans know or care about “President’s Day” or “Columbus Day” or 4th of July here in the USA? The answer of course in a big NO and I don’t expect them to know or care.
“Immigrants seek connections to their homelands through music and other kinds of media,”
Then why don’t they go back to their homelands?
““It is important for each group to have its own space, as we do here in the Central American program, to construct the way we’re portrayed. But at the same time, we’re forming alliances,” Cortez said.”
That’s right. We Americans want our own space, we want our country for us, not be colonized by a bunch of hispanics. Hispanics already have their own space back in their own countries and they need to go there or be sent back.
“This was a phony holiday thrust on us by Mexican nationals and their supporters and apologies. What they wanted to do was create a Mexican version of Columbus Day or St. Patrick’s Day.”
No, the true story is that both St. Patrick’s and Cinco De Mayo were started by American beer companies.
q at 9:42 AM on May 6 wrote:
“If you are referring to true Spaniards and not merstizos [sic], you must be living in the twilight zone, because Spaniards dislike blacks intensely, as well as mestizos.”
So true. I’ve met a lot of ethnic Spaniards in my life here in New York. I’ve yet to meet one who liked blacks. I’m sure they’re out there, but here they’re apparently a minority.
It is a popular misconception that Spaniards in general like mestizos. While undoubtedly many of them do, most of the ones I’ve observed here tend to avoid them. They look down upon them and seem to prefer the company of other Whites.
A laughably embarrassing example of this occurred a number of years ago when the NYC Board of Ed. brought in a group of teachers from Madrid, Spain to try to “educate” the mestizos in this city’s bilingual education program. All of them eventually quit and went back to Spain. I met one of them before she left. Her opinion of her “pupils” can’t be printed here.
sbuffalonative at 6:48 PM on May 5 wrote:
“This was a phony holiday thrust on us by Mexican nationals and their supporters and apologies [sic].”
Oh, you mean the way White leftists thrust Kwanzaa on us?
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=227
“We must not forget that the big hispanic hero is Che Givera who was defeated by the bolivian army.” [sic]
Just like we should never let the mestizos forget their “big hero” was a White guy.
http://members.tripod.com/~Campello/che_part1.html
“Black Insurgent” posts more ridiculous lies that he thinks will insult whites. Spaniards, as in people from Spain, detest blacks. I know because I am of Spanish descent, my parents are from Spain. We actually consider the “Spanish” speaking blacks and mestizos to be on a par with the uneducated Sub-Saharan Africans that still live a primitive existence that is below that of cavemen. Spaniards as a rule do not frequent “parties” filled with these people whose command of the Spanish language is nothing short of atrocious.
“The French had to retreat because they were low on ammunition. They would later return, capture Mexico city and ruke the country under Emperor Maximillian of austria. The french left because the USA was threatening to invade. As far as I know this is the only battle the Mexicans ever won.”
That is very true. The major reason the Mexicans won the battle of Puebla May 5 is that the French had just landed and had not yet adjusted to tourista. They were laid low by dysentery. As soon as the Franch recovered, they resumed their march to Mexico City which they easily conquered.
This was during the Civil War. The English sent major reinforcements to Canada. Both countries wanted to be ready if the South won the civil war.
As soon as the war was over, the Americans let both the Mexican nationalists and the French know that the occupation of Mexico by a foreign power would not be tolerated and the US would invoke the Monroe Doctrine.
So the French left. The Mexicans failed to prevent the French take over of their country. The Americans, not the Mexicans forced the French to leave.
Once the Union won the Civil War, there was no point stationing French troops in Mexico as the whole point had been to possibly join with an independent Confederates States.
The English withdrew the troops sent to Canada once the Union won the war as it was obvious the US would remain strong.
“Real Spaniard” is right. Spaniards look down on blacks and Mestizos because they see them as they are. In point of fact, Spaniards and Italians find it silly that blacks from Latin America and Mestizos see themselves as “Latins”. They most certainly are not.
“This was during the Civil War. The English sent major reinforcements to Canada. Both countries wanted to be ready if the South won the civil war.”
—-Ready for what?
“As soon as the war was over, the Americans let both the Mexican nationalists and the French know that the occupation of Mexico by a foreign power would not be tolerated and the US would invoke the Monroe Doctrine.”
—-If only we had practiced what we preached! Since the Monroe Doctrine specified that we would keep out of their (European) affairs if they would keep out of ours, it’s unfortunate that it was the USA itself which broke its own doctrine by meddling constantly in European politics throughout the 20th century.
“Real Spaniard” is right. Spaniards look down on blacks and Mestizos because they see them as they are.
Spaniards, in general, are not all that fond of blacks — especially now that they have been getting so many of them. But there are always exceptions to the rule. And, until recently, they did not see that many blacks— who were to them a novelty at most.
However, in BI’s case, his father was a “black” airman stationed in the US Air Force,as I believe he has said. And that was long ago. So he would have been considered by Spaniards to be an “American” not African. Big difference. And Spain was a very poor country then, while Americans were considered rich. That makes a difference too. That “black” father, black by American standards, was probably not all that “black|” to begin with (not a pure African black, I mean). Therefore, I imagine that BI would not be that noticeably black after all - not to Spanish eyes anyway - but he’s “black|” only by America’s old-fashioned one-drop rule (which means nothing in Spain). Thus, It’s quite possible that he considers himself “black” while they don’t. Also, having a Spanish mother and relatives, and being able to speak colloquial Spanish surely helps a lot too. He’s the exception, not the rule.
“Anonymous” assumes that Black Insurgent is telling the truth in the first place. I doubt he is. I also have many doubts as to his even being black based on his posts. However, you are wrong in stating that Spaniards or really anyone else would see this type of person as an “American” first. They would see him as “black” first, and that’s all it takes. Anonymous is wrong in stating Spaniards see blacks as a novelty. They have been trying to fight off the hordes of Africans the NWO crowd has been trying to dump into Spain for many years now. Spaniards have always had a good idea as to the behavior of the average black.
“you are wrong in stating that Spaniards or really anyone else would see this type of person as an “American” first. They would see him as “black” first, and that’s all it takes. Anonymous is wrong in stating Spaniards see blacks as a novelty. ”
—————————————————————
Real Spaniard, there is no disagreement between us, amigo, but you have mis-read me.
Read again: I said his Air Force father would doubtless have been considered in Spain to be an “American” not an African. I purposely chose my words carefully. And I was talking about his father, not him.
I was referring not to how they SEE blacks (now), but to his father’s generation when they SAW blacks (back then) as still a novelty.
I spent some time in Spain 40 years ago, (probably about when his parents met), and I remember seeing blacks there only twice: once with an American Circus, and another time near an Air Force base. Some 20 yrs. later, I knew a black “Hispanic” [perhaps Panamanian or Dominican] where I worked who had been stationed at an USAF base near Zaragoza and who had met and married his (white) Spanish wife there. I imagine that was probably very similar to BI’s case. Spanish girls — like French and German ones — would have been vulnerable to smooth talking, well paid American military personnel in their nice, crisp uniforms. And they had no racial prejudice, as well as no experience with race. Spain was still a very poor country then, and had no familiarity at all with blacks. Franco was still in power, and I imagine you weren’t even born yet.
There would have been a big difference to Spaniards between a well paid, well dressed, well fed “colored” American airman (perhaps light-skinned) and a poor, dirty black African “immigrant”. No comparison at all! (Anyway, they didn’t have any African immigrants back then, and not very many mulatto American airmen either.)
No anonymous, I think you’re misreading me and making guesses that aren’t based on experience. Speak with my parents or my grandparents on my father’s side, all of whom are still alive - and I’m in my late 30’s. The prevailing view on blacks was nothing positive in Spain, 40 or more years ago, never mind the low regard in which they are held now. For example, Spaniards have always been very familiar with what the black admixture did to Portugal. And they are wise to what happened in Latin America. There might be some individual men or women who might have fallen for “appearances” like a black in uniform, but they would be a rarity. I have doubts however that Black Insurgent is actually black. Read his other posts on this site.
