Kathryn Joyce, Newsweek Web Exclusive, March 17, 2009
If there is a wholesome counterpoint to the gossip-rich travails of single-mom Nadya Suleman and her 14 children, it might be Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, who had their 18th child just weeks before the arrival of Suleman’s octuplets in January. The Duggar birth was televised on the Arkansas couple’s popular TLC reality show, “17 Kids and Counting” (now “18 Kids and Counting”). Unlike Suleman, who was vilified as the freakish, government-assistance-dependent “Octomom,” the Duggars’ abundant progeny often attract admiration. Their children play violin, their palatial home is immaculate and the family matriarch is a soft-spoken multitasker who gently keeps order in her immense household.
Watching Michelle Duggar manage her Herculean tasks is addictive. We like to marvel at the logistics of life in oversized reality-TV families like the Duggars or the participants of the series “Kids By the Dozen” (also on TLC), which features families with at least 12 children each. How do they do all that laundry every week? Afford all those gallons of milk or cope with a joint birthday party for 13?
But there’s one big omission from the on-screen portrayal of many of these families: their motivation. Though the Duggars do describe themselves as conservative Christians, in reality, they follow a belief system that goes far beyond “Cheaper by the Dozen” high jinks. It is a pro-life-purist lifestyle known as Quiverfull, where women forgo all birth-control options, viewing contraception as a form of abortion and considering even natural family planning an attempt to control a realm—fertility—that should be entrusted to divine providence.
{snip}
Often, children of the movement are also called “arrows.” Quiverfull takes its name from Psalm 127: “Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.” A wealth of military metaphors follows from this namesake, as Pride and her fellow advocates urge women toward militant fecundity in the service of religious rebirth: creating what they bluntly refer to as an army of devout children to wage spiritual battle against God’s enemies. As Quiverfull author Rachel Scott writes in her 2004 movement book, “Birthing God’s Mighty Warriors,” “Children are our ammunition in the spiritual realm to whip the enemy! These special arrows were handcrafted by the warrior himself and were carefully fashioned to achieve the purpose of annihilating the enemy.”
Quiverfull advocates Rick and Jan Hess, authors of 1990’s “A Full Quiver: Family Planning and the Lordship of Christ,” envision the worldly gains such a method could bring, if more Christians began producing “full quivers” of “arrows for the war”: control of both houses of Congress, the “reclamation” of sinful cities like San Francisco and massive boycotts of companies that do not comply with conservative Christian mores. {snip}
Quiverfull doesn’t follow from any particular church’s teachings but rather is a conviction shared by evangelical and fundamentalist Christians across denominational lines, often spread through the burgeoning conservative homeschooling community, which the U.S. Department of Education estimates has more than 1 million school-age children, and which homeschooling groups say easily has twice that number.
{snip}
Original article
(Posted on March 19, 2009)
Comments
I’m not against someone having two dozen children. Just be able to support them, that’s all I ask.
Abortion, though, is killing a child that has already been conceived. Quite different from preventing conception. Now if you take the viewpoint far enough, some might say that all should marry and have children…if you don’t get married, you’re preventing children from being born. Yet the apostle Paul said that there’s nothing wrong with remaining single—unless you couldn’t restrain yourself.
On the other hand, people nowadays are so quick to condemn large families…especially the tree-hugging types. My mother came from a family of eight children. Her mother had eight or nine siblings. A great-grandfather was the youngest of a dozen children.
The problem I have with someone popping out a large number of children is if they’re doing it for welfare money and/or child support money. They just want to milk the system.
One of the reasons why the Duggars are going to have a slightly less hard time than the Suleimans is that the Duggars’ 18 are of varying ages, I don’t know if any of the Duggars were twins. Therefore, there are older offspring to help out.
Is there a reputable 501(c)(3) organization that takes donations for these families and makes sure they are doled out responsibly? If so, count me in!
If not, maybe I’ll start one.
I am not afraid to put my money where my mouth is.
“Unlike Suleman, who was vilified as the freakish, government-assistance-dependent ‘Octomom,’ the Duggars’ abundant progeny often attract admiration. Their children play violin, their palatial home is immaculate and the family matriarch is a soft-spoken multitasker who gently keeps order in her immense household.”
What is typical here, is not that the Duggars are (or even really should be considered) “normal;” it is the fact that the author (Comrade Pigwhore Joyce) of this article, seems to be determined to make them out to be oddities. If not for anything, to at least excuse the “freakish, government-assistance-dependent ‘Octomom.’”
Indeed, holds Comrade Pigwhore Joyce, neither side is the white gutter slut/Asian pimp ideal of good old TLC’s “Jon and Kate Plus Eight.” One is comprised of “religious fanatics,” the other of a welfare and fertility drug addict.
Hence, Comrade Pigwhore’s disdain for both, so that Multicultural genocide might be seen as an acceptable “middle ground.”
As always, God help us all!
We should look at this carefully.
“Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people. Secondly many White Christians, like liberals, are not open to race as a biological reality because it undermines equality of all mankind. They look at eugenics, evolution, stem cells and most likely racial differences with disdain.
Also I grew up in a weakly Christian type setting-family gathering for Christmas, Christian services for funeral etc. but am not really willing to make Christianity central to my life. Fundamentalists could possibly become another illogical threat to progress in the West.
Here’s some news for the woman who “left the Quiverfull movement” and now writes disparagingly of it: In big families, older siblings ALWAYS have helped to care for the younger ones. It was considered the usual way of things until recent years when one or two children became the norm, especially for White couples.
My mother was one of 13, and she helped care for her nine younger siblings. And my grandmother, who gave birth to 14 children (she lost one at birth), lived to be 90 years old and was “chirp as a cricket” until she was well into her 80s.
So much for the baloney about the Quiverfull mothers being worn out before their time, ad nauseum. And who says the Dugggars are “well off”? If they are, I’d say it’s because they worked to get that way.
Does Vladimir Putin know about this Quiverful movement?
If he can smack the Russian Orthodox hierarchy and priesthood into line and get them on board, he has a chance of stopping Russia becoming a Muslim-majority country by 2050 [which is the current projection.]
Well, good for these people if they’re having big families and raising the kids properly.
However, the real answer for like-minded whites is to relocate in the small towns and surrounding areas, returning to farming and self-sufficiency without any non-whites, or PC whites, and returning to 100% home schooling.
I think just as important as being white separatists is to reject PC whites just as vigorously as non-whites. They’re just too dim witted to offer anything useful and deserve to be among the tumultuous rabid masses fighting over their share of bread the government might feel generous enough from time to time to throw their way.
The urban areas are all going to be look like Detroit after a bulldozer drove back and forth over it.
I know many people on this site will probably laugh this movement off as some sort of fundamentalist human interest story, but this could actually have significant demographic effects. If one out of every ten white women would follow Mrs. Duggar’s lead, the white birthrate would roughly double. If just slightly more than 1% of white women follwed Mrs. Duggar’s lead, it would bring the white birthrate up to replacement level. Considering the fact that children often replicate the reproduction patterns of their parents, this movement could lead to an exponential increase in the white birthrate - if one white women has ten children and all of her descendants follow suit, she would have 1,000 great-grandchildren.
Bless them! I also saw today that their has been a “surge” in births across the U.S. Tragically the celebration of Whites becoming a minority in this Country by 2050 has been put off.
I have 4 boys and would be proud if they married a girl from one of these quiverfull families instead of some tattooed, pierced drugged girls with no sense of innocence, chastity, honor, duty, loyalty. All are aspects of femininity we used to cherish and protect.
As part of the quiverfull movement AND a pro-white activist, I have long labored in vain to communicate to others the importance of having large white families.
My wife and I have seven children, four boys and three girls. They rangein age from 17 to 4 and alas, we were forced to stop there. But for God/nature intervening, we would have gladly doubled that number.
There is so much strength that comes from a large family. There are so many upsides compared to the very few if any down-sides. The one limiting factor that I hear repeated is the amount of money it takes to raise a child. And I agree, child raising CAN be expensive. For example, if you think that each of your children ought to have a brand new car upon turning 16 years old, then even one child can be cost prohibitive. If, however, you are like me and you saw about 15 of your best friends and close acquaintances die in the 20 years since you graduated high-school, all while driving cars, then you might be a tad bit reluctant to facilitate young drivers AND save yourself lots of money and heartache in the process.
Very simply, you will live in the world that you create.
The hope for the White race is not getting Christians to have more sex, but getting marxist to have less. More exactly, it is getting rid of the of the sick-minded (to use a phrase by William James) religion of marxism, the religion that won’t admit it is a religion. Then again, maybe a people so taken with the perversities of such ideas don’t deserve to survive.
““Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people. Secondly many White Christians, like liberals, are not open to race as a biological reality because it undermines equality of all mankind. They look at eugenics, evolution, stem cells and most likely racial differences with disdain.”
Excuse me, I am a fundamentalist Christian.
What is your definition of “highly educated”? I was in a gifted program in school, and they shoved all sorts of liberalism at us…telling us the races were equal, ad nauseum. The so-called “progressive” agenda.
Mankind is equal in human worth, but race goes beyond skin color. I am a race realist.
Evolution has been debunked. As far as stem cells—are you referring to embryonic or adult? I don’t mind adult stem cell research, as, unlike embryonic, it actually works and you don’t have to kill someone to cure someone.
I think you’d better take a good look at what the Bible teaches. It’s God Who instituted nations, for example, and separated the races with Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Thing is, everyone is so brainwashed. Universal equality sounds good and is supposed to give you the warm fuzzies. That’s why people fall for it.
I find it laughable when someone talks about Christians not being “highly educated” when everyone knows universities are hotbeds of liberalism.
What counts as a “full quiver?” Ten children? Twelve? Fifteen?
As the big 3-oh looms up on my horizon, I feel more and more certain that I will not find that “special someone” in time to start any kind of family. I even just talked to an ex-boyfriend of mine, and he floored me with his decision to come out as a bisexual.
This is what white women have to put up with today: men in a perpetual adolescence, or men who have been convinced that bi/homosexual behavior is normal, or even advantageous to their personal and professional lives.
It’s always good to hear about a group of whites who are having large families. We should work to create a “Quiverfull” style movement among white race realists and activists, especially among the most intelligent members of our race. I for one would gladly contribute money to help support large white families. There’s a charity we should be proud to get behind.
Frankly, I wouldn’t object to government subsidies either for large white families (if we had a government that would be willing to implement such a policy, some European governments may.)
I only object to the government sudsizing minority families, which currently comprise the majority of families recieving government aid. The white race is below replacement levels, we must consider extreme measures to attempt to reverse this decline.
Whites should be encouraged to marry younger and have large families as they used to. We ought to view having children as our sacred obligation, and the family as the most important institution our race has ever created.
“Feminist” anti-family views clearly do not benefit our race and only help our enemies, because whites generally are the ones who fall prey to them.
6:57,I didn’t know Christians couldn’t be educated to the extent of atheist. I also know that athiest are the ones that have no tolorence for Christians.Your comment ranks as one of the most ignorant ones I’ve read to date! As far as big families,my step dad came from a family of 13 kids.They never once asked or excepted anykind of help from anyone! The oldest, my step dad at 75 years old is still self employed and makes over 400,000 a year, and without a college degree,go figure!
Felt the need to reply to one of the comments here,
Simply not true in a lot of cases, though it might be true for the majority of them.
Frankly, I miss the days when most christians were like the one who won a nobel peace prize for his work in africa (his name escapes me) in that they thought like he did about racial differences. To quote him on fellow african christians “I am your brother, but your elder brother.”
Ever notice that the Duggars bothered with the little “nicety” of getting married before they created this large family….somewhat unlike “Octomom.” Also, they created their family by ordinary means…no fertilization clinic. They represent sane and responsible people who wanted a large family. Good for them! “Octomom” has no husband.
I’m from a family with four kids… since my brother was not raised with us, it was technically just us three girls.
I have known a bunch of other people, however, who did come from huge families, with eight or more kids. The older ones do help out, but a common complaint was that they felt like they never got enough attention. I got the feeling listening to these people that they were not treated so much as individuals but as simply one of a herd.
I did not reproduce because (1) I just did not want to, (2) I didn’t find a man, during my fertile years, with whom I would have wanted to reproduce, (3) I didn’t feel stable enough to take care of kids as it was sometimes quite difficult just to take care of myself, and (4) other.
Although I have no quarrel with anyone who wants a lot of kids and does it on their own dime, the notion that anyone has a duty (to the race or any other group) to reproduce just sounds absurd. Again, we are individuals.
And although it’s unfortunate that white, middle-class people are being outbred by everyone else on the planet, it’s no one’s duty to breed, and no one has the right to force that on anyone else.
I agree that one shouldn’t have kids unless they can be cared for without public assistance. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and some say that white people should have lots of kids even if this means supporting them through welfare. After all, this is the weapon that blacks and Hispanics are using against us. Just food for thought.
Whites should discourage blacks and hispanics from joining the quiverfull movement by pointing out that it’s for married couples only.
13 kids by 13 different “babydaddies” on welfare does’nt cut it.
It goes to show that there are things happening in the world that don’t get reported in the media for a long time. Maybe this is a cause for optimism.
Thanks for a positive story on this website, we could use more of them. As a father of three (soon to be four) I can say that childraising does not have to be as expensive as some think. There are some Christian (as well as WN) groups that organise clothes sharing programs. And, as others have pointed out, older children in large families have ALWAYS helped raise younger children. It teaches them reposnsibility at an early age, and often creates the desire in them to have large families of their own later.
Posted by I: “We should look at this carefully.
“Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people. “”
Yes, and what have these exalted secularists given us in return?
Materialism. Homosexual marriage. High Illegitmate birth-rates. Abortion. The Mortgage Crisis. etc. ad nauseam.
A high rate of education means nothing if you cannot make right decisions. The secularists give us one failed policy right after another. They just do it with more sophistication.
6:57 PM said:
“Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people. Secondly many White Christians, like liberals, are not open to race as a biological reality because it undermines equality of all mankind. They look at eugenics, evolution, stem cells and most likely racial differences with disdain.
(…) Fundamentalists could possibly become another illogical threat to progress in the West.
I disagree. I’m not a Christian myself, but Christianity is an excellent thing for our civilization.
First of all, as for some Christians being against evolution (and only a few of them are, and none in my country here in Europe), what are you afraid of, that they believe that all races are the same? That lie is already told by the mainstream secular “science”, so you have nothing to lose. Darwinism is no guarantee against PC multiculturalism. 18th century Americans didn’t have Darwinism, they were Christian and creationists, and yet they knew it better; they were perfectly aware that blacks are different from Whites.
As for stem cells, Christians aren’t against stem cell research per se, they are generally against the use of a particular type of stem cells, embryonic ones. An important point in the scientific debate which is never made in the liberal media, is that embrionic cells of the kind endorsed by Obama, never proved useful at all and according to many are already obsolete. All the successes of stem cells have been in the field of adult cells, not embrionic ones. These day you can even reprogram a somatic stem cell from your skin into a embrionic-like state, thus getting all the advantages you would get from embrionic cells, without actually creating or killing an embryo. Incidentally I’m an atheist, but i completely agree with the Christian position on this matter. The funding and celebration embrionic stem cells is only driven by two factor: special interests of those particular research institute who invested a lot of money in embrionic research, and the leftist desire to stick it to Christians.
Christians a bit stupider than the average? It may be so (I’m not sure), but you’re nitpicking. A dumb White Christians are still smarter than the average Muslim or Black or Latino. Besides, intellect isn’t everything. Third Worlds races don’t have the inherent morality and planning ability to live in advanced societies, regardless of intelligence. Those type don’t join the Quiverfull movement. So this is an excellent strategy to resist them demographically.
The main point is that authentic Christianity is directly opposed to the liberal madness that is destroying our civilization in many ways. So the more White fundamentalist Christians, the better. I’m not one of them, but they’re my allies.
In response to “Gun Runner’s” post, he is correct in stating that young boys, and teen-aged young men used to learn how to treat girls, and young ladies. I can recall, quite vividly, how my mother taught me proper manners, as a child, including how to dance, at formal functions. All of this is lost on today’s generation. They have no knowledge of how to act properly in social settings, formal or not, with the opposite sex.
Likewise, there seems to be a great push to emasculate boys and men, particularly, Whites, if they display, early on, an assertive and protective nature about themselves, their girl friends, and what they hold dear.
This is something that is not lost on anyone who has noticed a “Feminization” of many young boys and teenagers, with a great deal coming into their 20s, as less than future father figures.
I would like to call your attention to an Organization called, “The American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property” which can be found on-line at http://www.tfp.org .
The TFP has many Camps, which are referred to as the “Call to Chivalry” and stresses virtues and stregnth in the Militant Catholic Tradition. These virtues are to foster sound, faithful families, as well as the defense of all that is Holy, protection of the Church, and of women, and the unborn.
I cannot stress enough, the importance of giving young boys, and teenagers, a sense of masculine identity, in which to build their faith and families upon. Fathers need to interact with their sons in many settings, whether it be playing Baseball, throwing around the football, spending time at the Rifle Range, or the Driving Range, or just enjoying a great day of fishing.
I would also like to recommend a book entitiled, “The Maxims of Robert E. Lee For Young Gentlemen” by Richard G. Williams, Jr. which is published by Pelican Publishing Company. I had the book signed by the Author, who had written, “To Eric from your Father, Best Wishes”. I have used this book as one of the building blocks, for my son’s education.
““Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people. Secondly many White Christians, like liberals, are not open to race as a biological reality because it undermines equality of all mankind. They look at eugenics, evolution, stem cells and most likely racial differences with disdain.”
I agree. Christianity is a form of communism with spiritual elements. Christians in the western world are one of the biggest proponents of multiculturalism and islamization of white lands.
Judging from what I see, its far easier to convert a christian to islam than it is to turn an atheist into a muslim. A mind thats susceptible to religion will change religion far easier than one that rejects it.
I don’t care if they’re on welfare. I don’t care what their religion is. I don’t care about anything except I want them to all be white and to have as many babies as possible who are also white.
Childless yuppie whites should be taxed to pay for whites who have as many children as possible.
Expand always; contract never.
As part of the quiverfull movement AND a pro-white activist, I have long labored in vain to communicate to others the importance of having large white families.
My wife and I have seven children, four boys and three girls.
Romulus, I would like to contact you about your very excellent movement. I am in a position to bring strong resources to people who do such positive things and I would like to become one of them myself.
Great job Romulus
@Information Insurgent:
You need to re-read my post. I am a fundamentalist Christian. Christianity is not a form of Communism…in fact there is a verse, 2 Thessalonians 3:10, which states: “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” Kind of lets out the welfare state, doesn’t it?
If one really knows the Bible, one knows that egalitarianism is not promoted. Spiritually, a black Christian and a white Christian are one in Christ, but physically—they’re not equal. Don’t confuse physical and spiritual.
I’m against multiculturalism, and I am against miscegenation.
From 10:12 AM comment: “Christianity is a form of communism with spiritual elements.”
This is false. Communism is not taught in the scriptures. Communists have cleverly adapted the Christian and Jewish teachings on charity to their own ends. There are Christians who try to blend communism and Christianity, but they have no scriptural gound to do so.
The Law of Moses - on which both Christians and Jews base their moral teachings - respects private property and the rights of individuals. Communism is a pragmatic political chameleon and has co-opted Jewish and Christian teaching for it’s own ends. Sadly, many Christians- and secularists - do not know the scriptures well enough to recognize this.
To Information Insurgent:
While Christian whites are far from perfect, let’s look at what secular humanists and atheists have done in recent years.
In the 60’s they championed abortion and the pill.
In the 70’s they convinced countless whites to not have kids because of “the population bomb” -unfounded fears that we would die of overpopulation.
In the 80’s they lobbied Congress to make it easier for whites to adopt nonwhite children
In the 21st century millions of whites around the world have been told not to have children because kids emit carbon and therefore contribute to global warming!
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Well, as far as fundamelist christians being less intelligent, anyone who has enough money that he/she can afford to raise 10 or more kids without assistance probably isn’t all that dim.
Anglokraut, I can sympathize with what you’re saying, but for me being a decent, adult man, with a job, I don’t think that is what women are looking for. Our culture has been under attack for at least two generations. What I see more and more happening (especially where I live) is the corruption of our women. Some of you folks may get something out of this article:
http://tinyurl.com/cuchqp
It might be the case that no one has an obligation to have offspring, but no one else is obligated to feed and shelter them when they’re old. If you’re relying on Social Security and Medicare to take care of you when you’re old, don’t crab about it when other people’s children don’t want to pay the taxes to support you.
Albert Schweitzer was the Christian physician who won the Nobel Prize for serving Africans. He would allow no Black or French doctors, because Blacks were dumb and French were intriguers.
Paul, regarding ‘donations to these families’:
A few years back, my husband and I did something we have not talked about. But now, maybe, I should tell. There is a beautiful blond couple in our area. They have little education, and were not on career paths that promised to lead to much. But they are clean-living, hard-working, kind people. Most important to us, they are sweet, quiet and incredibly beautiful people. I believe that personality is largely heritable, and that well-behaved people should reproduce. This couple has four children: many more than they can really afford.
They have gifted the world with four more beautiful, well-behaved blonds. One day, in a parking lot, we saw that whole precious family getting into a really old pickup truck. It was so obvious how hard those people were trying, and how much they needed a break. My husband and I looked at each other. It was one of those moments when couples don’t need to discuss. He only said “Your checkbook or mine?”
It ended up with both our checkbooks in play. My dude bought the husband a new 4-door ‘Dually’(safe transportation for the brood, and he was able to expand his tiny business), and I took the wife to my broker, and got a 529 plan started for each of the kids. Knowing that college is (at least partially) funded, keeps kids from derailing and ending up undereducated.
We explained it to them as we saw it: they had done something wonderful for the world by having so many genetically-valuable kids. We saw it as our job to help insure the viability of their family: our little bit in fighting to save our world.
Today, the family is thriving, the husband has become (in a small way) one of our suppliers, and there is another beautiful blond baby on the way. If everyone with the means will apply their dollars close to home, instead of sending money to Africa or donating to some stupid college football team, we may have a chance at saving our civilization.
There are plenty of couples like that one, all over America, who could use a little mentoring, a little praise (for being what the world needs, and for having babies), and a little cash. Folks, we’ve got to get our wagons in a circle, and start protecting our own.
I’m a Christian and I can assure you many of them see the writing on the wall in terms of demographic collapse. And they tend to raise bigger, healthy families that generally are pre-disposed to a behaved, civillized society. Christians are certainly as smart as anyone else. You must keep in mind it was over 60 years or so ago, that many views in society started changing and they seeped into the Church too.
“The hope for the White race is not getting Christians to have more sex, but getting marxist to have less. More exactly, it is getting rid of the of the sick-minded (to use a phrase by William James) religion of marxism, the religion that won’t admit it is a religion. Then again, maybe a people so taken with the perversities of such ideas don’t deserve to survive.”
Yep … Leftists (primarily whites) are the most deranged people on earth. Leftism is 1) genetic and 2) it’s a mental illness.
It’s the left’s low birth rates that skews the overall birth rates. Good riddance …
Question for those on this thread opposed to Christianity:
If Christianity demands racial equality, then why did it take 1,950 years for Christians to figure it out? The Catholic schools in St. Louis were segregated until the late 1940s.
Christianity, Inc. merely read the tea leaves. I think you would all be better focusing on Christianity, Inc. than Christian theology.
“And although it’s unfortunate that white, middle-class people are being outbred by everyone else on the planet, it’s no one’s duty to breed, and no one has the right to force that on anyone else.
Posted by Anonymous at 12:45 AM on March 20”
You think it’s unfortunate but you don’t want anyone taking steps to correct it. Hmmmm.
I’m in my fifties and have had four healthy productive kids in my lifetime. If just 10% of the White population, about 18 million, were to have at least 4 kids there would be the equivalent of the population of Canada added to the US in just 4 years. Some people say we shouldn’t try to outbreed them but what else do we do, get dominated by them?
jewamongyou makes a good point. Blacks and Hispanics are in many cases having as many children as possible and supporting them through public assistance. Is it unreasonable for whites to adopt the same strategy, we are after all in a struggle for survival?
Some would say it is immoral to take government money to support ones children, but whose money is it really? We are taxed and forced to subsidize non-white families already against our will, why not try to take back as much of that money as possible for our people? Whites pay most of the taxes in any case.
In my view, since the US government is controlled by hostile non-whites at the highest levels, we owe it no loyalty. I see nothing wrong with doing everything we legally can to destablize the current system and advance our own interests.
On this forum we often complain (myself included) about all the money that minorities take from the government, whats wrong with whites trying to take it back? The “government’s money” is our money.
“Posted by Mignon at 1:47 PM on March 20”
Mignon,
Those are the stories that I want to read about. Doing things that we can change (helping another family or having more children for example) instead of worrying about the stuff we can’t.
Even though I am a childfree, non-religious freethinker, I still have no problem with Michelle and Bob Duggar having 18 children. This is because they are the right kind of people who are competent enough to have children.
Even the National Rifle Association is for backround checks to buy guns, and is opposed to allowing convicted felons, especially those convicted of violent crimes, to own firearms.
You need to have a clean backround to legally own guns. You need to have license to drive a car, go hunting or fishing, own a dog, operate a business, practice law or medicine, and for so many other things in our society, but you do not need a license or a backround check to be a parent.
Unfortunately, people who were abused as children often become the same kind of child-abusing parents themselves.
I certainly do not mean to disrespect or offend the religious faith of anyone reading this post, regardless of whether you are Protestant, Roman Catholic, or Jewish. But this is what deeply disturbs me about the way our churches and synagogues demand that everyone in their congregations have children, claiming it is God’s commandment to “Be fruitful and multiply.” What if Retinitis Pigmentosa, severe learning disabilies, obesity, diabetes, and other physical and mental deffects that make life miserable, run genetically in your family? Is it God’s commandment that you violate your conscious, that God supposedly gave you in the first place, by bringing chiildren into this world to suffer as you have in life?
What if you were severely abused as a child by your own parents, is it God’s commandment that you, again violate your conscious, by having children, and therefore, putting your own children at risk, that you will abuse them, too?
Many of you reading this post will say it is necessary to increase the white population to help save America and western civilization. Yes, but this task should be done only by white people, like Mr. and Mrs. Duggar, who are the right kind of competent people, who can properly start families and raise children.
I have no disagreement with arguements that the Jewish people need to increase their numbers because of the Nazi Holocaust, but likewise, only Jews who are the right kind of competent people, who are able to properly raise children, should carry out the task for starting and raising Jewish families.
The main theme of this post is parenthood should not be imposed on everyone. Every child brought into this world should be a heathly, loved, well-cared for, and wanted child.
Unfortunately, many otherwise smart and competent people, are not the right kind of people who should have children, and would be better off without them. Child abuse is a tradgedy that happens in the most prominent and respectable families.
I am not going to argue that abortion is taking a life. But I think it is hypocritical for anti-abortion, pro-life advocates to be against birth control, tubal-ligation, and vasectomies for people who know they do not want to have children.
Unfortunately, millions of children around the world are born into the worst sort of circumstances, often by incompetent people who should not be parents. After all, we do not live in the parallel universe of “The Brady Bunch”!
I am getting sick and tired of people bashing Christianity and blaming it for societies problems. It is anti-religious bigots, Marxists and atheists who are the cause of the problems. For almost two thousand years Christianity thrived in the West, allowing Europe and America to dominate the world well into the 1900’s. It was only in the 20th century with the rise of communism, secular humanism, and socialism that we have seen the decline of the West. What happened was that many Christian churches were taken over by the far left, just as they have taken over the media and academia the last few decades. The left infected these institutions in order to radically change society. Ever hear of “liberation theology” ?. This was started in Latin America by radical Marxists who knew one of the best ways to push their agenda was to take over the churches where they could brain wash the people.
it’s no one’s duty to breed
Nonsense. Duty is not self-chosen. That means it’s inconsistent with radical libertine notions of total self-authorship. Oh well, life’s tough.
You are free to neglect your duty, and no one has a right to force you to reproduce, but that doesn’t excuse you from your duty.
And yes, racially-aware whites have a duty to reproduce as much as is feasible.
Ross:
I don’t know if you advocate parental licenseure, but I’m inferring from your remark about drivers licenses and gun background checks that you do. And if that ever comes to be, who’s going to hand out “parents licenses?” Liberal bureaucrats. You’ll bet that they’ll ignore criterion to give to blacks and hispanics and deny them to right wing whites.
It’s the same thing with drivers licenses. There are virtually no standards for blacks taking the driving test in black jurisdictions.
“Also I grew up in a weakly Christian type setting-family gathering for Christmas, Christian services for funeral etc. but am not really willing to make Christianity central to my life. Fundamentalists could possibly become another illogical threat to progress in the West.”
Posted by I at 6:57 PM on March 19
They always have been, why should we expect them to stop now?
What we need is a new way - in order to succeed. Hammering on this blind “principles” that are so sacred to people who continually fail to connec the dots will only prolong our pain and lead to the end - in the end.
“Does Vladimir Putin know about this Quiverful movement?
If he can smack the Russian Orthodox hierarchy and priesthood into line and get them on board, he has a chance of stopping Russia becoming a Muslim-majority country by 2050 [which is the current projection.] “
Posted by Bill Corr at 8:25 PM on March 19
> Actually, Russia has put a program into place under Putin’s leadership to increase baby making - and without the Orthodox or any other church.
Go ahead, everyone race to outbreed everyone else - that will solve all the problems!
Get serious……
Whites who care need to stop complaining about Socialism and demand some for themselves. For 40 plus years all races and females in this country have had Socialism benefiting them while Whites and especially White Males have been excluded until there is now a real threat that the White race could go extinct much sooner than projected. Amren Whites ought to stop squealing about Marxism and realize that they will have to come together themselves if they want to survive as a people. Stop complaining about Sweden and similar countries because they are Socialist. Those countries have the best economies left in the world. If they would just learn to rid themselves of the need to prove they are not selfish by bringing marauding non-Whites into their midst, it would be utopia. Why can’t we learn something useful for once instead of proposing only the most radical and unworkable and unlikely to succeed solutions?
“”Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people.
…Fundamentalists could possibly become another illogical threat to progress in the West.”
I agree. I am reminded of a post in that highly-discussed secession article a while back stating to the effect that any partition based on Liberal/Conservative ideology would result in two superior Liberal port nations sandwiching an inferior, belligerent and envious Conservative heartland one, which would “set off at once into banning the teaching of evolution etc. and descending back into the dark ages,” or something like that.
And really, that, and what you write, are true. Others here are saying, well, look what the secularists have gotten us into, and while that may be significantly true, my experience with religious people tells me that as undesirable as, and nearing closer every day to miserable, it is to live in a nation run by senseless and/or brainwashed Liberals, it would be just as undesirable and would certainly be miserable to live in a nation run by the religious, who are always, if not wholly unintelligent, so in a particular and important capacity.
There’s more I might write, but I just wanted to make it known that there are people here who agree with you.
“Whites who care need to stop complaining about Socialism and demand some for themselves. “
That sounds like a great idea! We should embrace a system of government that was responsible for the murder of 100 million + in the last century (sarcasm).
The racial egalitarian nature of christianity means that these Duggars are unlikely to not have any brown grand or great grand children.
Well, I’ll agree about the likelihood that they will have non-white grandkids, if only because the odds are increasingly against them, not because of their beliefs.
The problem is, no matter how well the Duggars’ children are raised, the vast majority of potential mates surrounding them do not share their same philosophy, and in many cases, not even the same race. So their admirable experiment is really just a one-off.
To avoid this fate, they would need to find a way of building some sort of community of like-minded people who could perpetuate the values over time. I do not know if the Quiverfull movement has organized in this way, but until it does, I cannot see it gaining much traction as a long-term demographic force.
I agree with Ross.
As someone who has chosen NOT to reproduce for very similar reasons, I find the “lets out-breed ‘em” belief system to be counterproductive in advancing racial awareness among whites.
All of us who believe in what is being promoted on the AR site do not come from identical backgrounds or ideologies. We arrived here from many different directions and don’t necessarily endorse the same package deal.
Perhaps I hold parenthood up to a higher standard, but I don’t think it is a role that should be taken on capriciously.
Just because human beings have the physical equipment to reproduce, doesn’t mean they have the intelligence, stability, maturity, morality, and personality to be good parents. If you have doubts about that, take a look at the serious child abuse problems in this country.
Well, I’ve got mixed feelings on this. I’m not a Christian, but an atheist. But I’m conservative, and a White racialist. Anything that gives the White race a fighting chance is a good thing. But I’m also a proponent of the old Zero Population Growth movement. You remember that, don’t you? The Sierra Club used to promote that, too, before they got hijacked by the leftist crowd. I think Japan has the right idea - let their population decline a bit to stabilize things, reduce overcrowding in the cities, use natural resources more efficiently, etc. The real answer to me isn’t so much to increase White fertility, but reduce non-White fertility (and immigration!). Unfortunately, reducing their fertility probably isn’t ever going to happen. In fact, the way our society is going, probably just the opposite. So I guess I have to approve of Quiverfull and movements like it, if it means keeping our numbers up.
What I’m afraid of is that eventually the US is going to become so overcrowded with all this competitive breeding that it won’t be a desirable place to live anymore. Too much urban sprawl, not enough open space, too much pollution, etc. Hopefully it won’t happen within my lifetime, but I’d rather it not happen at all.
Personally, I admire the Duggars and families like them. I’ve watched their show with my wife before, and thought it ingenious and creative how they manage with such a large brood. It teaches the kids responsibility, something I wish I’d had more of when growing up. I used to think people who wanted a houseful of kids were insane, now I know better - it’s their choice of lifestyle and they are to be applauded for it, as long as they stay off the public dole. However, it’s not a lifestyle I would want for myself. My ex and I had two kids, and that was plenty for me. I’m done. They’re grown now, and I have a granddaughter. It’s time for me to live my life for me.
To those of you who have a lot of kids, I applaud you. Raise them well, and make sure they stay aware of their heritage.
Man,this topic must have hit a sore spot.I personaly was raised a Christian. If you look at what has happened to the U.S.and the rest of the free world in the last 20 or 30 yrs.,you’ll see that Christianity has a lot to do with the problems. We can no longer welcome “your poor huddled masses”. “Love thy neighbor”? I don’t think so,not in my neighborhood. We can no longer feed the world because “it’s the Christian thing to do”.I won’t “forgive” those who trespass against me. I know that a lot of good people mean well. But,”we the people” have given enough! It’s time we look to help our own people,and help “our” people build a better America for “our” children. I now consider myself a progressive Christian. Don’t attack me and think I’ll pray for your salvation. However, I will “turn the other cheek” so they may kiss both sides. “teach your children well”
JS:
Note the Duggars house — it’s not exceptionally large. It needs to be big enough, because of all the children. And it has a big enough yard for the same. However, it is not a 10,000 sf McMansion or 10 acres on the Colorado Front Range that white Beverly Hills liberals purchased, the land just happened to have a bull so they can go there on weekends and pretend to be cattle ranchers.
It seems like the Duggars practice environmental restraint, relative to their size and prosperity.
There’s way too much wine and cheese talk about not wanting to breed because the planet will be too crowded, etc. Baloney. We’re all in a race to survive. You who brag on here about not having children are deadenders. In a few years you’ll be gone—forever. What have you contributed to our gene pool? Well, perhaps you’re doing us a favor by stating out of it, because your attitude tells us that you don’t understand much about nature or existence. Bye, bye deadenders. My genes will dance on your graves.
Those of you who sniff that you’re not going to have children and then say you’re white and racially aware don’t get it. I don’t care how pretend racially aware you are, you’re not one of my people. Your genes are sending you the wrong message—a message of death instead of life. A message of extinction instead of survival. A message of selfish live for the moment yuppieism instead of a message about the chain of life that you are breaking. You disgust me.
Go ahead and bash the non-breeders, folks, but we all have different reasons for what we do.
I didn’t want kids, but if YOU want a dozen, go ahead and have them, as long as you don’t force me to pay for them.
And although I’m not counting on Social Security, I’m far from rich. I’m probably going to work until I keel over.
Those of you who are suggesting that whites become wholesale takers of welfare like blacks and Hispanics do… wouldn’t it be more productive in the long run if you worked to eliminate welfare for everybody?
Then, not only would the blacks and Hispanics have to pay their own way, but then those of us who are productive could choose to help other people voluntarily, if they so wished.
Am I the only one here who sees the difference between helping others voluntarily and forcing them to subsidize other people through force (i.e., taxes)? I hope I’m not.
Because I don’t want to be forced to subsidize anyone else’s reproductive stupidity, regardless of which race, creed, or color they happen to be… although I might be persuaded to help them voluntarily, and I might be persuaded to contribute to some kind of charitable organization which discriminated between the deserving and undeserving poor.
The Duggars might be the nicest people on the planet, I don’t know—but I still don’t want to pay for them or their lifestyle.
I guess not many people here are really of the “live and let live” persuasion—sounds like many of you have no trouble forcing square pegs into a round hole, so long as it’s your round hole.
In my opinion, anyone that doesn’t think high enough of themselves to procreate should not reproduce.
On another note, I live in a high latte consumption area (i.e. very white and very liberal) of a large metro area. I also have many close friends in suburbia/rural areas. I have noticed the liberals (and I know a lot) usually do not have children (and when they do, it’s 1 at most) and the people I know in suburbia have on average 2 to 3 kids (occasionally even more).
I have believed for years that liberalism is 1) genetic and 2) is a mental disorder. Based on my frequent observations, they even have a certain phenotype.
In my opinion, there isn’t a more dangerous group of people on earth than white leftists (and that frankly includes militant Islamists).
From Anglokraut: “This is what white women have to put up with today: men in a perpetual adolescence, or men who have been convinced that bi/homosexual behavior is normal, or even advantageous to their personal and professional lives”.
Or that they see their contemporaries marrying, fathering kid, then getting tossed out of the homes they bought and paid for, cut off from their children, and enslaved with crushing alimony payments because your “sisters” had a change of mind.
I offer the modest proposal that if family law were overhauled so that men were not treated as little more than walking wallets, that there’d be more marriage, more families and more children.
(Pinch your nose as you repeat) “I’m not going to have any children because the world is too crowded and, and, I’m a reponsible person and, and I really want to help my fellow white people, and, and, oh, gosh, I haven’t found the right person yet, and, and, I don’t want to bring any children into this bad world, and, and, I can’t afford children so I’m not going to have children.”
RIP morons. You will be missing from the next generation. You have proven by not breeding that you are not the fittest. Your words on these blogs are less than dust in the wind as is your petty lifeless existence. The sap has failed to rise to the top in you.
All living things have one purpose given to them by nature: Survive to make more like themselves. That’s it. It’s the same purpose given to every living thing. Any further purpose is up to us to invent. But, whatever we invent must never contradict the one purpose.
If you fail in the one purpose you might as well not have lived at all. You are a deadend. You are nothing but a walking bag of fertilizer.
I, like anonymous at 9:17 on March 22, think that liberalism is a sign of a diseased mind and are very dangerous. When you talk with them about almost any subject matter, thier thought process follows no logical pattern, they reject any fact you bring into the conversation and simply throw out words like xenophobic, racist, sexist, and other half baked personal feelings that can put you on the defensive.
1. ANY White children are better then none. I never opposed what these couples are doing(as some here thought I did).
2. There is a strong negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence. Proven many times.
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/12/religion_iq.php http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/02/pentecostals_are_stupid_unitar.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm
3. Morality will live on without strict religious guidance. The notion that society will collapse into violent nihilism without it is ludicrous.
Dear Anonymous 9:17, I’m extremely curious, please tell me, which one exactly is the liberal phenotype?
As a married father of three white children who almost didn’t have any 1) It’s important to distinguish between childless couples who want children but CAN’T have them (fertility problems) and those who can have them but won’t. Those that can, but won’t are deluding themselves and usually live to regret their decision.
“I agree that one shouldn’t have kids unless they can be cared for without public assistance. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and some say that white people should have lots of kids even if this means supporting them through welfare.”
Alas, with the country almost bankrupt, I must disagree. People with more than two children should only receive additional welfare benefits after being sterilized –by either surgical or chemical methods. Otherwise, people can have as many children as they can afford. Unfortunately, I believe that whites can’t win a fertility war with minorities.
Overpopulation is a myth.
Replacement level is about 2.1 children per couple. Worldwide average, about 10 years ago, 1.7 to 1.8.
So—the problem is underpopulation.
My husband wanted to stop at one for financial reasons, otherwise we’d have had more.
One characteristic for religious people (at least for those addicted to abrahamitic religions) is that they have a bipolar world view. If you are a coreligionist, you are good, if not, then you are an outsider (liberal/idol worshipper/atheist/whatever) who can only be bad. This is not something learned but rather genetically inherited behaviour which is very noticeable in people from the middle east, regardless of religious disposition. To understand why this personality trait is so common among white american you need to look at the origins of them: There are broadly speaking 4 categories of people who migrated from Europe to the USA.
1) Religious nujobs. Chased away by violent or nonviolent means. Now basically extinct as Xians in Europe but the personality type is still active in other semireligious ideologies such as modern liberal-marxism or globalization libertarians. These were the firstest and they have become the mostest because they breed many children.
2) Economic migrants/never-do-wells “Losers” in modern yankspeak. These people are the likely origin of the american habit of running away rather than taking a fight. See “white flight” and “forced integration at gunpoint” for modern examples.
3) Criminals. Scams and unethical behaviour is much more common among americans than europeans. Escaping to america was a surefire way to get away from pesky law enforcement officials back before interpol.
4) Adventurers. This is the only category that actually was a loss for Europe. This category is the smallest by far, minuscle in comparision to the rest and they have had little influence on the developement of modern america.
People from category 2 is the source of the low amount of american civil courage. If you have a high bias towards flight instead of fight you will run away and away again rather than taking a stand. People like this wont revolt - ever.
People from category 3 - no comment necessary. They are your idols and your nobility today.
Strong words, Breeder, and I mostly agree with them, but I do think that childbearing is a responsibility to society — NOT a purely personal responsibility. Otherwise we can argue all day about a) the selfishness of avoiding childbearing for purposes of material indulgence vs. b) the selfishness of thinking one’s own genes are especially worthy of being perpetuated. Yes, there’s a Darwinian logic to b), but that’s not going to win over the childless yuppie.
All this is contingent on the “society” being defined as a racially interrelated group, such that each child born enriches and complements the whole. Within that society there may be competition, but without the broader societal context, I think that your argument is undermined, and the voluntarily childless person actually has a point — if I have no people, no “tribe,” and if prospects do not look good for the children I could bear, why bother having them?
“Replacement level is about 2.1 children per couple. Worldwide average, about 10 years ago, 1.7 to 1.8. “
Thats obviously not true, the world population is perpetually growing and is expected to max out at 9 billion (current 6.75 billion) due to reaching the limits of the Earths carrying capacity. If there was negative population growth in the world, there would be very little migration pressure on the western world, since the population explosion in the 3rd world is the fundamental force behind todays mass migration.
Come out from your death religions and breed. There is no other way to survive as a people. Expand always, contract never.
What do we care about the over population of the planet, if those who are over populating it are not us?
We are in a race for survival and the winners will be those who breed the most and who fill all lands with their own kind. If you don’t understand this, then you don’t understand the most basic things of existence.
““Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians” are frankly, less intelligent than secular and highly educated people. Secondly many White Christians, like liberals, are not open to race as a biological reality because it undermines equality of all mankind. They look at eugenics, evolution, stem cells and most likely racial differences with disdain.”
Not only that, but I am consciously seeking to train up my kids to take over from the generations that a)have homosexualized themselves b) waited too long to have babies, and c)have miscegenated their intellectual quotient via race-mixing. The aforementioned groups are all damned, both theologically as well as scientifically/statistically. And it is books like “Paved with Good Intentions” that started to open my eyes.
I also am seeking ‘quiverful’ families to join my church, where I teach/preach this racial/cultural self-awareness. We will succeed, if merely on numerical and procreative grounds alone. Of course, if you add that God is on our side, then ‘who can lay a charge against God’s elect?’
Certainly, not ‘I’.
end of story.
MOLON LABE, dude!
I
You do know that all those studies compare rich secular western European cultures, with the darker far less secular parts of the world? Basically all they show is that the wealthy white parts of the world, produce people of higher intelligence. Than those same poorer, darker parts of the world. These same whiter parts of the world, are also the historic bastions of Christianity. So unless one of your studies shows that IQ has been rising in the white world, as secularism has increased. These studies have proved nothing at all.
