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Survey Shows Alarming Lack of Integration in Germany

More news stories on Europe

Katrin Elger, Ansbert Kneip and Merlind Theile, Der Spiegel, January 26, 2009

A new study has delivered a damning verdict on the integration of Germany’s immigrants, concluding that an alarmingly high percentage of them live in a parallel world with poor prospects of a decent education and career advancement.

The study presented on Monday by the Berlin Institute for Population and Development is based on annual population statistics and finds that Turks in particular, the second largest group of immigrants after ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, are faring badly, even after decades of living in Germany.

It shows that foreigners who come to live in Germany tend to remain strangers, even after 50 years and three generations in some cases. There are even problems among those who hold German passports.

It’s a disturbing trend for Germany. The country needs immigrants because Germans aren’t having enough children. The population is shrinking and aging and its productivity is in danger. If the immigrants, who tend to have more children, are poorly educated and can’t find jobs, they’ll end up costing the state money rather than supporting it.

A separate study by the Bertelsmann Foundation estimates that failed immigration is already costing the country up to €16 billion ($20 billion) per year.

Fresh Insight Into Immigration Trends

The Berlin Institute based its study on the annual official micro-census of 800,000 citizens in Germany—one percent of the population—in which people are asked about what kind of accommodation they have, their jobs, education, income and nationality.

Since 2005 people have also been asked to state what country their parents came from. That means that for the first time it’s possible to identify trends for people who have obtained German citizenship but also have an immigrant background. Previously, there was no way to separate out naturalized Germans.

Now, immigrants from Turkey can be compared with those from Italy and Africa and with ethnic German immigrants from Eastern Europe.

The researchers at the Berlin Institute developed an “Index for the Measurement of Immigration” which shows how well or badly an immigrant group is anchored in German society. Various criteria flow into the index, such as education levels, job prospects and the extent to which immigrants and Germans are getting closer, for example through marriage.

The study has also examined whether the children of immigrants behave differently from their parents. For the first time, there are figures to assess whether integration is taking place. Of all the immigrant groups in Germany, the southern Europeans from Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece, who made up the first wave of so-called “guest workers” who came to Germany after World War II, have done best in terms of integrating themselves.

The so-called Aussiedler, ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, most of whom who came to Germany in the 1990s, are the biggest single group of immigrants, and they have also done relatively well. Their sons and daughters are making good use of the education system and the proportion of them with higher education degrees is greater than that of the general German population.

Turks Poorly Integrated

But immigrants from Turkey, the second biggest immigrant group in Germany making up almost 3 million people, are very poorly integrated. They come last in the Berlin Institute’s integration ranking and the difference between them and the Germans is greatest—they are worse educated, worse paid and have a higher rate of unemployment. And it doesn’t make much difference how long they’ve been living in Germany.

If your name is Ümit rather than Hans or Gülcan rather than Grete, you’re less likely to climb the career ladder. Some 30 percent of Turkish immigrants and their children don’t have a school leaving certificate, and only 14 percent do their Abitur, as the degree from Germany’s top-level high schools is called—that’s half the average of the German population.

And because immigrants tend to have more children than the Germans, the problem is likely to get worse in the future. Today a third of all children born in Germany are born to immigrant families.

But why do foreigners remain foreign in so many cases, and why are Turks finding it hard to integrate themselves, even the ones born in Germany?

There are two sides to integration. In the ideal case there’s a majority that welcomes the immigrants and the minority that wants to become part of its new homeland.

But many Turks who came to Germany as guest workers decades ago didn’t want to become part of German society, they wanted to earn money there and return home after a few years. That didn’t happen, though. The Turks stayed on, but it seems that their original attitude hasn’t changed. They formed ghettos and didn’t establish much contact with Germans, and all that made it harder for their children to find a place in German society.

According to one recent survey, two-thirds of immigrant children still can’t read adequately at the end of their fourth year in school. The situation is especially bad in big cities with high proportions of immigrants such as Berlin, Hamburg and Bremen.

And the majority? What have the Germans done wrong regarding the integration of Turks?

“We invited the guest workers and thought they would leave again soon,” said Reiner Klingholz, the head of the Berlin Institute. But education is the main factor, and language is the key, he says. “For too long we were used to the fact that we have primary school classes where 80 percent of children can’t speak German,” says Klingholz.

Recent international surveys have shown that children from families with a poor educational background and weak language skills have particularly bad prospects in the German school system. “For 30, 40 years the Turks weren’t offered enough” in terms of education, says Yasemin Karakasoglu, who researches immigration trends at Bremen University. But the government has started taking action since 2000, changing immigration law and conducting regular meetings with immigrant groups.

There’s even some movement on a key demand by immigrants from outside the European Union—dual citizenship. While EU citizens and Swiss people living in Germany have no trouble obtaining two passports, it’s far harder for the children of immigrants from outside the EU. They have to decide between the ages of 18 and 23 which nationality they want to keep.

The chairman of the Turkish Community in Germany, Kenan Kolat, says Turkish immigrants should have the option of permanent dual citizenship. “If Turks in the second generation had the right to have dual citizenship, that would definitely promote their integration,” says Kolat. “They wouldn’t be forced to decide for or against Germany.”

Turks Need to Make More Effort, Says Analyst

Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble responds by saying: “Integration also requires people to take a decision. They have to want to integrate themselves.” Turks born in Germany could become German if they so desire, says Schäuble.

But there are many factors affecting such a desire. Xenophobia, for example. A survey by the Allensbach polling institute found that more than 50 percent of Germans still think the country has too many immigrants. On the other hand, though, it is tempting to wonder how much of such an attitude results from the Turkish tendency to congregate in insular neighborhoods in Germany’s big cities.

Reiner Klingholz says immigrants and their children should be expected to make more effort to get an education and to speak German as well as to accept Germany’s legal order and cultural norms. “We can no longer accept that someone refuses to take part in sports lessons on religious grounds,” he says.

A study by the Essen Center for Turkish studies in 2006 found that 83 percent of Muslims of Turkish-origins described themselves as religious or strictly religious. “Religiousness has increased,” the authors of the study wrote.

Is Muslim Faith a Hindrance to Integration?

What does that mean for integration? Does Islam, the faith of most of the Turks living in Germany, prevent immigrants from finding their way into German society?

Author Serap Cileli, herself the victim of a forced marriage, says: “Faith plays a major role in the failed integration of Turks.” For more than 10 years she has been helping Muslim women who have become victims of domestic violence. “Every day I see the suffering of Muslim girls and women who never get a chance in their conservative Muslim world to take part in German life,” she says.

A study commissioned by the German Families Ministry in 2004 showed that a disproportionate rate of Turkish women in Germany suffer from domestic violence. Arranged marriages are another factor. A quarter of Turkish women who responded to the survey said they had only met their husband at their wedding, and 9 percent they had been forced into marriage.

Critics of Islam see the religion as the source of the problem because it underscores patriarchal structures in which the men can derive from the Koran the right to dominate their wives. And the women in turn see themselves committed by the Koran to tolerate their suffering.

Bassam Tibi, co-founder of the Arabian Organization for Human Rights, says it’s impossible for Muslim immigrants ever to truly integrate under these conditions. “No democracy can allow the inferiorization of women,” he says.

But Ursula Günther, a lecturer on religion at the University of Hamburg, warns against clichés. “The broad majority of Germans has the false impression that all Turks are orthodox Muslims,” she says. Most religious Turks, though, don’t listen to fundamentalist imams.

Gradual Change

In fact, Germany’s Turkish community is quite pluralistic. Some are in favor of women wearing headscarves. Some are against it, some wouldn’t contemplate marrying a German, others don’t have a problem with bi-cultural relationships.

Reiner Klingholz says it’s impossible to measure the impact of Islam on integration, but he doesn’t think it’s a lasting hindrance. “50 years ago in Germany no one could have imagined that Catholics could marry Protestants, but these days no one talks about it any more,” he says.

Slowly, very slowly, things are changing. The percentage of Turkish girls in Gymnasium—the highest form of secondary school in Germany’s three-tier high-school system—is increasing and now exceeds the percentage of Turkish boys. Education standards of second-generation Turkish immigrants also increasing, at least compared with that of their parents.

And Turkish immigrants increasingly regard Germany as their country. “As recently as the 1990s, two-thirds of Turks wanted to return at some point,” says immigrant researcher Yasemin Karakasoglu at Bremen University. “But this attitude has changed: More and more Turks really want to stay here forever.”

Original article

(Posted on January 29, 2009)

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Comments

1 — Memphomaniac wrote at 6:23 PM on January 29:

“The country needs immigrants because Germans aren’t having enough children.”

Have we heard this before? Isn’t this always the same excuse?

It is nonsense, of course.

2 — Civilized Neighbor wrote at 6:24 PM on January 29:

What part of ‘guest worker’ do they not understand? All white countries have an exit as well as an entrance.

3 — Obscuratus wrote at 6:43 PM on January 29:

But many Turks who came to Germany as guest workers decades ago didn’t want to become part of German society, they wanted to earn money there and return home after a few years.

“We invited the guest workers and thought they would leave again soon,” said Reiner Klingholz, the head of the Berlin Institute.

Ah, the “Grand Lie” of post-60s immigration in Western Europe:
Don’t worry whites of Britain, France, Holland and Germany - once those West Indians, Indians and Pakistanis/North Africans/Moroccans/Turks have made enough, they’ll jump right back to their native lands!.

The naive, or perhaps irrevocably autocidal (as currently seems to be the case), governments of Western Europe honestly believed that Third World immigrants would rather return to overcrowded, devastatingly poor countries with no benefits (or white women) and be slightly wealthier than be low-paid workers in a land of Milk and Honey.

“But this attitude has changed: More and more Turks really want to stay here forever.”

God help the German people, as their government isn’t doing anything…

4 — Question Diversity wrote at 6:58 PM on January 29:

Won’t integrate? Heck, the only reason they’re even in Germany is because of the pressure of their American occupiers. In secret, real Germans wish that Yankee would take his black soldiers and go home. Once that happens, then all these Turks and others aren’t long to stay, either.

There’s a black war deserter that wants German asylum. Good luck with that.

5 — sbuffalonative wrote at 7:39 PM on January 29:


The headline should read “Survey Shows Healthy Lack of Integration in Germany”.

As I said on a post just yesterday, I lived in multicultural NYC and none of my friends or acquaintances were non-white and I got along nicely.

6 — Anonymous wrote at 8:16 PM on January 29:

“If the immigrants, who tend to have more children, are poorly educated and can’t find jobs, they’ll end up costing the state money rather than supporting it.”

It would be nice if the American media would print this simple truth. Instead they continue the fallacy that millions of welfare receipients and incarcerated criminals contribute to the country.

7 — Ziwtra wrote at 8:42 PM on January 29:

“But many Turks who came to Germany as guest workers decades ago didn’t want to become part of German society, they wanted to earn money there and return home after a few years. That didn’t happen, though.”

The article fails to mention that no attempts have been made by the German government to send back the Turkish “guest workers” to their homeland after they finished their job.
In fact, if you have people from poverty/corruption - ridden places that resemble a desert invited to a civilized and thriving country, does it really surprise anyone that the guests are not willing to leave voluntarily? I think anyone with an IQ below 75 and above will realize that people pour from low level of civilizations to high levels civilizations, but never the other way around. Back in the 60s Germany has refused to deport the Turks after having them for work. And now Germany is paying a high price for her stupidity - as other European countries do regarding muslim immigration.

8 — Anonymous wrote at 8:44 PM on January 29:

As a descendant of the Christian minorities from that “tolerant” land of Turkey, I have to say it gives me a very “unchristian” joy that they are getting a taste ( minor one ) of the medicine they dealt out to Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians.

9 — KC wrote at 9:01 PM on January 29:

“It’s a disturbing trend for Germany. The country needs immigrants because Germans aren’t having enough children. The population is shrinking and aging and its productivity is in danger. If the immigrants, who tend to have more children, are poorly educated and can’t find jobs, they’ll end up costing the state money rather than supporting it. A separate study by the Bertelsmann Foundation estimates that failed immigration is already costing the country up to €16 billion ($20 billion) per year.”

Germany doesn’t need more immigrants, what it needs is for Germans to have more children. The estimated 20 billion a year should be used to pay, if necessary, German married couples to have children. Germany should develop favorable economic policies for married couples so they want to have more children. The taxes from socialism are so high that many europeans have severely reduced their birthrates because they can’t afford kids, their basic needs ie.healthcare may be taken care of by the state but after that, there is not much left over. Married German couples of childbearing age could be given huge tax breaks and generous payouts in order to reproduce as well as a massive public service campaign urging people to have kids. This would likely result in a higher birthrate and would be far better than changing Germany into a muslim country or foreign country made up of people who are not German and never will be.

10 — ranger wrote at 9:14 PM on January 29:

“Foreign immigrants tend to remain … foreign.”

That’s exactly the way it is anywhere in the world where different races and ethnicities flee to.

Only the dense intellect of the leftists do not know this without doing research, which, incidentally, would be denied if it didn’t agree with their incorrect assumptions.

11 — Cherusci wrote at 11:18 PM on January 29:

This Der Spiegel story has the stench of white self-guilt one expects from a leftist newspaper. Real Germans (you know, the kind with Nordic genes and German names, who eat pork, drink beer and schnapps, nominally raised Christian) must be a brow-beaten lot. Their elitist, leftist governments extort high taxes and threaten whites with prison on charges of “race hatred” against foreigners. So who can blame Germans for not wanting to bring children into such a dystopia in the making? Why doesn’t the government provide tax incentives or cash payouts to real Germans to have real German children? Instead they import their country’s ruination. (Read some of the other linked articles at the actual Der Spiegel website and see how even some in the Christian clergy gush at the sight of new mosques built in their cities.) The cowards and traitors are willing to turn this beautiful country over to hordes of non-European aliens. Maybe the continuing world economic meltdown will bring a day of reckoning to the idiots who promote these insane immigration policies and in the process force the foreigners back to where they came from.

12 — SKIP wrote at 11:24 PM on January 29:

A new study has delivered a damning verdict on the integration of Germany’s immigrants, concluding that an alarmingly high percentage of them live in a parallel world with poor prospects of a decent education and career advancement.

This is because this sort of thing (career, education) are of no interest to these mostly muslim invaders, forcing the world to muslim thinking is what is important to them.

13 — SouthernJew wrote at 2:41 AM on January 30:

Of course the Turks didn’t want to leave!

As will always be the case of dysfunctional peoples who cannot create 1st-World Countries, many of their citizens (in this case, Turkish immigrants) will leave to sponge off those who have created grand places to live (in this case, Germany) until their numbers have increased to such an extent that the 1st World Nation sinks under their weight into the 3rd World.

Los Angeles is a perfect case-study; France and the United Kingdom shall soon follow suit. It seems Germany, luckily, may last a little longer if their immigrants continue to keep themselves segregated away from the ethnic Germans.

14 — Anonymous wrote at 10:00 AM on January 30:

For the billions that the Germans are spending, they could collect sperm and eggs from German university students, create embryos, pay women in Africa to serve as surrogate mothers, offer the resulting babies to infertile German couples, have the African mothers raise the remainder, with German schools for the children to attend (in Africa) and when they are teenagers, let them move to Germany as German citizens. MUCH cheaper in the long run, with high quality children resulting, and the children raised in huge families by African mothers might not have the same attitude toward family size that the children raised in Germany have.

I’ve never understood why countries in Europe say that they have to import “workers” and then say that a huge percentage of the new “workers” are unemployed, and therefore need all sorts of social benefits. Why not just let the economy get a bit smaller for a few years? As wages go up due to scarcity of labor, and as the cost of housing declines due to fewer families, it will become easier for the younger Germans to form families, and more of them will probably do it. As whites have to “pay” more and more to keep their families away from minorities, they decide to have fewer children.

Western governments need to phase out social security for the old, and let people understand that their CHILDREN will be taking care of them in their old age. NOT “the children,” but “YOUR own children.”

15 — Fed Up wrote at 12:28 PM on January 30:

Can someone, anyone, lucidly explain WHY first-world (White) nations actually NEED immigrants. What would happen to a country because Whites are more intelligent in their reproductive choices. Refusing to have more children than they can reasonably provide for.

We hear this politically correct excuse for immigration (legal OR illegal) non-stop in our United States. So what would happen if we seal our borders, lock our doors? The WORST CASE being a lot of restaurants would either have to shut their doors, being cut off from cheap (illegal immigrant) labor. A lot of contractors would have to pay a fair salary and hire Americans. Ditto for the construction industry. Ditto for the healthcare industry. The latter also needing LESS human labor since so many healthcare patients are illegal immigrants demanding (and getting) FREE HEALTHCARE!

Seems on analysis, much would be gained, little actually lost were immigrants driven from White nations. Crime would drop like a brick dropped from a ship into the ocean. Schools would no longer have to cater to intellectually and language-challenged immigrant’s children. Slums would shrink magically nearly out of existence. I could go on, but we all get the picture, right?

16 — Anonymous wrote at 4:29 PM on January 30:

There is nothing in the world more permanent then “temporary” workers.

17 — Anonymous wrote at 4:57 PM on January 30:

Why would it matter that a shrinking population would be “less productive”? A society with fewer people needs to produce less, because it consumes less ‘product’. Is that so hard to grasp?

Europe has seen a couple of severe drops in population (the plague and WWII). Both times, Europe rebounded remarkably quickly and well, and emerged with markedly higher standards of living.

What Germany will not rebound from is a lowering of the collective IQ. Importing unintelligent people will forever diminish German IQ. One has to wonder whether a recent dip in Mercedes’ quality ratings had anything to do with the fact that so many of its workers are no longer Germans.

And the statement “…fifty years ago, no one in Germany could imagine that Catholics could marry Protestants…” is utter bunk. Fifty years ago… That would be in 1959. Maybe in 1659….

Katrin Elger is just a little goody-two-shoes, writing what she thinks will get her the most positive attention.

18 — rational thinker wrote at 11:00 PM on February 1:

Los Angeles is a perfect case-study; France and the United Kingdom shall soon follow suit. It seems Germany, luckily, may last a little longer if their immigrants continue to keep themselves segregated away from the ethnic Germans.
Posted by SouthernJew at 2:41 AM on January 30

That wont last for too long. Have seen German women they are extremely attractive and very intelligent. The German men are tall and look for exotic women.

They go the way of Britian:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1090612/Now-Britain-leading-world—promiscuity.html

19 — voter wrote at 3:17 PM on February 6:

That wont last for too long.
Have seen German women they are extremely attractive and very intelligent. The German men are tall and look for exotic women.
They go the way of Britian

——————————

Dear “Rational” thinker: You seem to like them. Therefore, you should be seeking their preservation. So why are you applauding their extinction? Is there there anything rational in that?

20 — The Editrix wrote at 2:38 PM on February 16:

“And the statement “…fifty years ago, no one in Germany could imagine that Catholics could marry Protestants…” is utter bunk. Fifty years ago… That would be in 1959. Maybe in 1659….”

You don’t know much about Germany, do you?


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